Indian Navy and International Anti-Piracy Ops

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 13 Apr 2009 14:53

A lesson for our GOI on how to handle such scenarios.

...on how the US moved swiftly.
The wife of indian captain was running from pillar to post to get him released & the Govt then refused to do anything. IN was sent much later.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 13 Apr 2009 14:58

Our beloved GoI needs many such lessons in manhood...where do you want to start?

Ajay K · Post by **Ajay K** » 13 Apr 2009 16:34

AdityaM
Post subject: Re: Indian Navy and International Anti-Piracy Ops

A lesson for our GOI on how to handle such scenarios. ...on how the US moved swiftly.
The wife of Indian captain was running from pillar

We did the soft(diplomacy) route of handling hostage situations like we did in Kandahar or J&K.

At last ended up paying them money !!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Apr 2009 20:19

America is great for these small incidents.

but pathetic when it comes to caving in against the biggest terrorist (Pakistan) and paying them billions every year

"we shall not negotiate with terrorists" applies to small scale terrorists onree.

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 13 Apr 2009 20:20

Ajay K wrote:
AdityaM
Post subject: Re: Indian Navy and International Anti-Piracy Ops

A lesson for our GOI on how to handle such scenarios. ...on how the US moved swiftly.
The wife of Indian captain was running from pillar
We did the soft(diplomacy) route of handling hostage situations like we did in Kandahar or J&K.
At last ended up paying them money !!

The USN Seals did a great job , but its a turkey shoot compared to Kandahar. You had three hostage takers in a lifeboat and they were being *helped* by the US navy with their boat. Imagine if the Captain was in the middle of Mogadishu with a crazed militia armed with stingers surrounding him - different story. I am not defending our behaviour at Kandahar, but this self flaggelation is unnecessary.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Apr 2009 21:15

NYT - the interesting part in italics.

Meanwhile, members of the Navy Seals were flown in by fixed-wing aircraft. They parachuted into the sea with inflatable boats and were picked up by the Bainbridge. On Sunday, the pirates, their fuel gone, were drifting toward the Somali coast. They agreed to accept a tow from the Bainbridge, the senior officials said. At first, the towline was 200 feet long, but as darkness gathered and seas became rough, the towline was shortened to 100 feet, the officials said. It was unclear if this was done with the pirates’ knowledge.

At dusk, a single tracer bullet was seen fired from the lifeboat. The intent was unclear, but it ratcheted up the tension and Seal snipers at the stern rail of the Bainbridge fixed night-vision scopes to their high-powered rifles, getting ready for action.

What they saw was the head and shoulders of two of the pirates emerging from the rear hatch of the lifeboat. Through the window of the front hatch they saw the third pirate, pointing his AK-47 at the back of Captain Phillips, who was seen to be tied up.

That was it: the provocation that fulfilled the president’s order to act only if the captain’s life was in imminent danger, and the opportunity of having clear shots at each captor. The order was given. Senior defense officials, themselves marveling at the skill of the snipers, said each took a target and fired one shot.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Apr 2009 21:17

shades of the deployment model seen in the 1984 movie SEALS *ing charlie sheen. that was a good film.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 Apr 2009 23:12

What stands out is the care given by US to each one of its citizens, and also insisting on pirates to surrender. The pirates wanted freedom for exchange of the prisioner, but the US insisted on pirates surrendering. And sending SEALS to rescue just one person shows that they care about their citizens. Contrast that with multiple ships with Indian crew held hostage and GoI washing its hands of the incidents.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Apr 2009 23:25

While lauding the US Navy operation no need to whine about what India does or doesnt do.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 14 Apr 2009 02:30

Re. the self-flagellation, it is not the IN which is found wanting as we saw during the incidents where MARCOS rescued ships, took down pirate boats and captured pirates in well, "boat loads". GoI policy on the other hand is not consistent and our netas are just dont care about the plight of individuals (all they care are vote bank statistics). However, once they unleash our dogs of war as they did when they authorized IN ops against piracy, we can see that our forces are more than capable of taking the fight to the enemy and giving them a sound thrashing.

And ramana, atleast thank Allah, that we don't have somebody whining on this thread as to why MARCOS are not being trained by super-duper SEALs ityadi

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 14 Apr 2009 07:42

Teen piracy suspect raises legal, moral issues

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Monday the four pirates were between 17 and 19 years old.

"Untrained teenagers with heavy weapons," Gates told a group of students and faculty at the Marine Corps War College. "Everybody in the room knows the consequences of that."

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 14 Apr 2009 09:51

HariC wrote:

The USN Seals did a great job , but its a turkey shoot compared to Kandahar. You had three hostage takers in a lifeboat and they were being *helped* by the US navy with their boat. Imagine if the Captain was in the middle of Mogadishu with a crazed militia armed with stingers surrounding him - different story. I am not defending our behaviour at Kandahar, but this self flaggelation is unnecessary.

Hari C I am sure you know the hypothetical situation that you are stating above is exactly what happenend in 1993 in Somalia, except the stingers were replaced with RPGs.

And we all know what happenend...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993)

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Apr 2009 10:31

Raja Bose wrote:
And ramana, atleast thank Allah, that we don't have somebody whining on this thread as to why MARCOS are not being trained by super-duper SEALs ityadi

The SEAL link already exists.

In the eighties, many Naval Officers had already undergone SEAL training in the US. They used to sport the original SEAL badges on their IN uniforms.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 14 Apr 2009 10:49

chetak wrote: The SEAL link already exists.
In the eighties, many Naval Officers had already undergone SEAL training in the US. They used to sport the original SEAL badges on their IN uniforms.

I dont know about many officers but, the core of MARCOS was formed by 3 officers who underwent SEAL training in the 80s. However, the credit goes to them and those who came after them that they took that training regimen and raised it up a couple of notches to a new level of rigour!

Added later: The SEAL badges are known as Budweisers

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Apr 2009 10:54

Raja Bose wrote:
chetak wrote: The SEAL link already exists.
In the eighties, many Naval Officers had already undergone SEAL training in the US. They used to sport the original SEAL badges on their IN uniforms.
I dont know about many officers but, the core of MARCOS was formed by 3 officers who underwent SEAL training in the 80s. However, the credit goes to them and those who came after them that they took that training regimen and raised it up a couple of notches to a new level of rigour!

Added later: The SEAL badges are known as Budweisers

I was in Bombay when some of these guys returned.

Very tough training and not enough Indian allowances to even supplement their already high protein diets. The US trainees personally and privately augmented their diets to better withstand the rigors of their training.

Seeing their dietary plight, the US authorities were kind enough to grant some of these guys a special allowance from their own training funds.

The SEALs were impressed by the stamina and tenacity of these guys.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 14 Apr 2009 11:32

If you really look at it, what is considered physically tough in Western militaries may be considered fairly routine (still rigorous but routine) for some third world militaries like ours. Our enlisted men, sailors, jawans etc. still overwhelmingly come from rural areas and poor backgrounds. For someone who has to trek 10 miles to get drinking water, a lot of these physical hardships become merely routine....they are used to it and adapt to changing conditions faster. For example, just look at the Gurkhas, Garwhalis and other hill-men and women. In Darjeeling, old women used to individually carry 100+ kgs of coal on their backs, up and down the mountains, daily! That is enough to put almost any SF operator out of commission!

The average GI/Sailor in US is primarily town/city based and used to living with certain basic comforts which a lot of our villages still cannot provide. So for them, physical challenges have a different meaning than a lot of our soldiers.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Apr 2009 13:22

esp in stamina oriented tasks like long marches in arduous terrain with little to eat and drink.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Apr 2009 13:31

Raja Bose wrote:If you really look at it, what is considered physically tough in Western militaries may be considered fairly routine (still rigorous but routine) for some third world militaries like ours. Our enlisted men, sailors, jawans etc. still overwhelmingly come from rural areas and poor backgrounds. For someone who has to trek 10 miles to get drinking water, a lot of these physical hardships become merely routine....they are used to it and adapt to changing conditions faster. For example, just look at the Gurkhas, Garwhalis and other hill-men and women. In Darjeeling, old women used to individually carry 100+ kgs of coal on their backs, up and down the mountains, daily! That is enough to put almost any SF operator out of commission!

The average GI/Sailor in US is primarily town/city based and used to living with certain basic comforts which a lot of our villages still cannot provide. So for them, physical challenges have a different meaning than a lot of our soldiers.

I know what you mean.

During my SSB, we had this young rural sardarji who had completed the obstacle course twice over and was third time half way through again when the when the last "city candidate" just about managed to get to the end of his first try.

Ajay K · Post by **Ajay K** » 14 Apr 2009 18:31

Folks, the last operation Marcos were involved the pirate vessel was shelled. No action.
Compare that with the SEAL team surgical job. At the onset it would appear to be a simple sniper shot but how much of intel gathering and pursuit would have gone into it.

Regarding Kandahar and J&K ops, we still not have political will power to exercise foreign policy or confidence in our defense services doing a clean job. Nothing else intended.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Apr 2009 18:49

The US operation was really awesome. but guess there's more to this than what's in the media. This is the lifeboat..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Web_0 ... 0X-926.jpg

Not more than 1 person can peek out from any open aperture. So 1 peeked out forward side. another aft side. And one somewhere through the glass middle lifeboat where they control the engines from was visible. 3 shots..3 heads. Great work.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 14 Apr 2009 19:39

chetak

I know what you mean.

During my SSB this manipuri kid ran through the course almost 3 times before we struggled to finish it (skinning our hands on the tarzan jump

).

But the @$@$@#%@#% Air force Wg Co assigned him to the Army

One day if I run into that Wg Co I will give him hell - because the poor kid was so crestfallen.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 14 Apr 2009 19:58

Thousands of dolphins block Somali pirates

Thousands of dolphins blocked the suspected Somali pirate ships when they were trying to attack Chinese merchant ships passing the Gulf of Aden, the China Radio International reported on Monday.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 15 Apr 2009 01:58

Ajay K wrote:Folks, the last operation Marcos were involved the pirate vessel was shelled. No action.
Compare that with the SEAL team surgical job. At the onset it would appear to be a simple sniper shot but how much of intel gathering and pursuit would have gone into it.

Regarding Kandahar and J&K ops, we still not have political will power to exercise foreign policy or confidence in our defense services doing a clean job. Nothing else intended.

Actually the last time MARCOS were involved, they boarded the pirate vessel and took 16 prisoner. While the US op is a great job done, you are really comparing two totally different scenarios hence the question of surgical or not does not arise. For one, when the 3 pirates were shot their boat was being towed by the USS Bainbridge and the 4th pirate was on the USS Bainbridge whereas in IN's case the pirate vessel was hostile and was captured after trying to flee an aborted attack on a merchant ship.

Added Later: My Bad!

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 15 Apr 2009 02:27

^^Actually, they took 23 prisoners.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 15 Apr 2009 22:15

French warship captures pirates

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 16 Apr 2009 03:43

Pirates, Ye Be Warned!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 18 Apr 2009 17:13

Dutch forces free pirate captives, free pirates

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 20 Apr 2009 09:58

Navy responds to SOS from Seychelles

The Seychelles Armed Forces today said it had requested the Indian Navy to patrol the exclusive economic zone of the country. The Navy confirmed that INS Nirdeshak has already been sent to the region.
While details of the area to be patrolled and the deployment of additional warships in the region will be discussed at a later stage, the Nirdeshak, which is a survey vessel of the Navy but is “adequately equipped” to undertake anti-piracy missions, will begin operations immediately.

Shubham · Post by **Shubham** » 20 Apr 2009 10:13

How did India piped chinese in seychelles ?

or i am reading too much between the line
last heard china was trying its string of pearls in indian Ocean. Was it only because Indian Navy closer to the scene ?

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 20 Apr 2009 14:21

Shubham wrote:How did India piped chinese in seychelles ?
or i am reading too much between the line
last heard china was trying its string of pearls in indian Ocean. Was it only because Indian Navy closer to the scene ?

Whatever the reason, it is extremely important that India responds quickly. And good to see that it has.

Notice the speed with which they dispatched the Survey ship, barely armed for anti-piracy operations as the flag carrier for the Indian Navy and India as a nation until a better armed ship can take over. This fills the vacuum which can now not be filled by any other nation. If we had said: "It will take days for one of the better armed ships to come over..." then you can be sure that China etc would also put their lot into the open vacuum.

Good move by the Indian Government and Navy.

-Vivek

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 20 Apr 2009 19:13

IOR is our turf No boby can react as fast as us.
We also have listening post in madagascar!

Cheers for Navy.

pgbhat wrote:Navy responds to SOS from Seychelles
The Seychelles Armed Forces today said it had requested the Indian Navy to patrol the exclusive economic zone of the country. The Navy confirmed that INS Nirdeshak has already been sent to the region.
While details of the area to be patrolled and the deployment of additional warships in the region will be discussed at a later stage, the Nirdeshak, which is a survey vessel of the Navy but is “adequately equipped” to undertake anti-piracy missions, will begin operations immediately.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 20 Apr 2009 19:35

^^^
besides that china is having a fleet review, this week i believe, so may be they didn't have enough boats at their disposal.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 21 Apr 2009 00:12

pgbhat wrote:^^^
besides that china is having a fleet review, this week i believe, so may be they didn't have enough boats at their disposal.

No senseable nation will invite these cheeni to help

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 21 Apr 2009 01:40

Jamal K. Malik wrote:
pgbhat wrote:^^^
besides that china is having a fleet review, this week i believe, so may be they didn't have enough boats at their disposal.
No senseable nation will invite these cheeni to help

Please stop with these derogatory racial terms for the Chinese (or others).

Exception of course for the pakanimals.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 21 Apr 2009 03:21

sirji,

Cheeni is transliteration from Hindi, and means "person from Cheen". Nothing derogatory about it.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 21 Apr 2009 04:02

In the International Naval thread he posted this

Whatever these chinky is doing is steal/IPR theft We know it sir

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 21 Apr 2009 23:19

xenophobic comments aren't allowed on BR. be careful.
Rahul.

nsa_tanay · Post by **nsa_tanay** » 28 Apr 2009 17:03

Link

Indian Navy ship foils piracy bid near Seychelles, nine arrested

Tue, Apr 28 03:10 PM
New Delhi, April 28 (IANS) After successfully combating piracy in the Gulf of Aden and indicating its growing footprint in the Indian Ocean, the Indian Navy has foiled a piracy bid off the island nation of the Seychelles and arrested nine pirates, an official said.

'Our ship INS Nirdeshak, along with a French warship and Spanish frigate, intercepted and arrested nine pirates while they were trying to hijack Italian cruise liner MS Melody. This incident highlights the growing footprint of the Indian Navy in a wider area,' a senior naval official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The operation took place Sunday when MS Melody came under attack off northern Seychelles.

'A Chetak helicopter was launched after coordinating with the French Navy, which also had some reconnaissance aircraft in the area. The pirates will be handed over to the Seychelles and the ship will return to its patrolling area,' the official added.

Pirates armed with automatic rifles had attacked the cruise ship with 991 passengers and 536 crew on board Saturday evening, but MS Melody, owned by Italy's MSC Crociere SA, was able to fend them off, with its security personnel returning fire. The vessel simultaneously sent out an SOS, leading to the international response.

INS Nirdeshak, essentially a hydrographic survey vessel, is equipped with a Chetak helicopter and interceptor boats for undertaking anti-piracy missions. It also has a medium 40mm Bofors gun on board. It has made several visits to the Seychelles in the past to carry out hydrographic surveys.

While it continues its operations in the Gulf of Aden, one of the world's busiest shipping lanes, the Indian Navy is now also patrolling the waters in the exclusive economic zone off the Seychelles after the island nation asked for assistance.

This was in the wake of reports that Somali pirates, after being chased away by the international forces patrolling the Gulf of Aden, had shifted their focus and were operating less than 200 nautical miles north of Mahe, the largest island in the Seychelles chain.

The Indian Navy, meanwhile, has also completed the refit of the Coast Guard ship Topaz that had been gifted to the Seychelles in 2005.

'The refit of the Topaz is over and the ship will be handed over to the Seychelles on Thursday,' the official added.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Apr 2009 15:21

spanish claim they did it all themselves with no mention of Yindia. even released a pic to AP of their supply
vessel Marques de la Ensenada escorting the cruise liner.

another report:

9 pirates arrested in Seychelles
Published: April 29, 2009 at 1:21 AM

NEW DELHI, April 29 (UPI) -- An Indian naval vessel, working with Spanish and French ships on pirate patrol near the Seychelles, captured nine suspected pirates, officials said Tuesday.

The suspects were handed over to authorities in the Republic of Seychelles, Press Trust of India reported. They were arrested Sunday night.

The Seychelles is an archipelago of 115 islands in the Indian Ocean, northeast of Madagascar and more than 900 miles from the African coast. The government asked for assistance from India after pirates who had been operating off Somalia moved to the Seychelles because of the number of naval vessels now patrolling the Gulf of Aden.

The INS Nirdeshak, a survey vessel, the Spanish destroyer Nomansia and French reconnaissance aircraft were involved in the operation.

The Nirdeshak was already involved in a survey off the Seychelles when it was deployed to pirate duty.

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 30 Apr 2009 17:04

^^ Well, obviously they would... in their view, India sent a survey craft, Frenchies had a surv aircraft... it was the spanish with the destroyer and all the firepower... no wonder they'd claim full credit for the operation.