Internal Security Watch

[Aditya_V]

As far I can see anybody who opposses a Naxal leader is a threat to them and put on a hit list. It is like a dacoit leader who kills anyone who opposses his tyranny. Anyone who is a naxal enemy is declared a public enemy and nobody can speak out against people who shoot you if you critizize them.

and BTW police and CRPF jawans come from poor people in India.

And regarding your rant against Rahul M , arent you also a person who has acess to computer, so you and I are also oppressors, how will the large scale killing of people help the poor in this country. then as per you logic poor countries can become rich by killing every Sheikh, european and american citizen. We also oppose corruption and are trying to clear it. how do you or maoists who have illegal collections help other further oppressing than poor people. What benefit have these Maoists movement brought to poor people.

[AnimeshP]

please delete ur above post unless you can justify, people joining politics as 'fakir' and becoming 'aamir' in few years. unless you can justify the fact that every single rupee that the central govt spends for the dev of the poor and just Rs.0.43 of that amount reaches grass root level.

please justify yourself when you surf computer(may be pricy hing end one) in a AC( may not be) room and edit BR forum. and 50% of people live under poverty line. When you eat in a costly restaurant and pay hefty bills and people beg out side the glass window of the restaurant.

Its a struggle of oppressed unprivileged against the oppressor.

[the 'you' is only symbolic. Nothing personal. Its a generalization]


[Note:]
I stated the 'police spy' theory because it has been seen that people who make it to the Naxal list are mainly the oppressor or having allegiance with the govt machinery. You also know it (perhaps)
My intention was not to justify the killing. I only stated a probable reason. thats it.

Ohhh ... that's quite alright then ... he had it coming as he was one of the "oppressors" in the class struggle ....
and silly me ... here I was thinking this guy was a poor tribal ... one of he oppressed people ... GO NAXALS !!!! Maybe they could learn a thing or two from Pol Pot or Mao in finishing off the "oppressors" ... after all they had a lot of experience in finishing off millions of "oppressors"

[Rahul M]

are you kidding me ?? "mainly the oppressors" ?
it is very convenient to paint every opposition as oppressor and then justify eliminating him !
classic case of "Give a dog a bad name and hang him".
in fact, had I been a maoist, you would have been declared an oppressor by now, simply for disagreeing with me ! clearly such a way of argument suits your way of thinking.

whatever they might say in propaganda, the naxal movement co-opted criminals in many cases, now it is nothing but a paid army of anti-national elements.

naxals regularly demolish all semblance of infrastructure in areas dominated by them, roads, train lines, power distribution units IOW everything little thing that might improve the life of the people they claim to be fighting for. whose interest do they serve really ? certainly not the local people !

bottom line : naxals are a terrorist/criminal organisation who kill innocent people needlessly.
supporting them on BR will not be allowed.

[Rahul M]

please delete ur above post unless you can justify, people joining politics as 'fakir' and becoming 'aamir' in few years. unless you can justify the fact that every single rupee that the central govt spends for the dev of the poor and just Rs.0.43 of that amount reaches grass root level.

please justify yourself when you surf computer(may be pricy hing end one) in a AC( may not be) room and edit BR forum. and 50% of people live under poverty line. When you eat in a costly restaurant and pay hefty bills and people beg out side the glass window of the restaurant.

Its a struggle of oppressed unprivileged against the oppressor.

[the 'you' is only symbolic. Nothing personal. Its a generalization]

empty rhetoric ...............

my ability to justify the points you raise has nothing to do with naxals killing on a whim.
let's say I can't justify any of the above, that means the naxals were right in killing that person, your afterthought disclaimer notwithstanding ? and I'm a class enemy right ? you are also included I guess ? (unless you are posting from classless "glorious china" !)
so why haven't you joined the glorious revolution yet sir ? hypocrisy ? put your money where your mouth is. if you really believe in that trash, you better stop sitting on the fence and join the glorious mass-murderers.
----------------------------

in case you are curious, I'm not justifying the points you raise in any way, but wanton violence is never the solution, the system we have at the moment is our best bet, with effort from people who care, we might just make it work.

disclaimer : I'm sorry if I am coming across as vitriolic, but the idea that an educated youth of today can still believe that anything good in society can be achieved by violence after what we witnessed during the 70's is really repugnant to me. may be you only have a cursory idea of the naxalite movement in bengal but trust me, you are lucky you weren't born during it.
never again, that's all I can say.

[nsa_tanay]

Waah what bravery by Maoists

http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories ... 050400.htm

http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories ... 050400.htm

These communists use foreign weaponry and funds to oppresse the poor tribals and claim they opposse imperlism and fight for the poor tribals.

Whom are we kidding here, and the yellow media is talking about Binayak Sen but no discussion on this, or how do Maoists get expensive sattellite phones and weapons

Where in this above report is it mentioned that the killed sarpanch was so 'poor' ? where in this report it is mentioned that so 'poor' tribals are oppressed ? where in this report has it been said that the naxals used 'foreign weaponry and funds' to kill that so 'pooro' and 'innocent' sarpanch ? where it has been written that the naxals support imperialism ?

you need to ask some maoist about how they get 'expensive' sattellite phones and weapons .

[nsa_tanay]

please delete ur above post unless you can justify, people joining politics as 'fakir' and becoming 'aamir' in few years. unless you can justify the fact that every single rupee that the central govt spends for the dev of the poor and just Rs.0.43 of that amount reaches grass root level.

please justify yourself when you surf computer(may be pricy hing end one) in a AC( may not be) room and edit BR forum. and 50% of people live under poverty line. When you eat in a costly restaurant and pay hefty bills and people beg out side the glass window of the restaurant.

Its a struggle of oppressed unprivileged against the oppressor.

[the 'you' is only symbolic. Nothing personal. Its a generalization]

empty rhetoric ...............

my ability to justify the points you raise has nothing to do with naxals killing on a whim.
let's say I can't justify any of the above, that means the naxals were right in killing that person, your afterthought disclaimer notwithstanding ? and I'm a class enemy right ? you are also included I guess ? (unless you are posting from classless "glorious china" !)
so why haven't you joined the glorious revolution yet sir ? hypocrisy ? put your money where your mouth is. if you really believe in that trash, you better stop sitting on the fence and join the glorious mass-murderers.
----------------------------

in case you are curious, I'm not justifying the points you raise in any way, but wanton violence is never the solution, the system we have at the moment is our best bet, with effort from people who care, we might just make it work.

disclaimer : I'm sorry if I am coming across as vitriolic, but the idea that an educated youth of today can still believe that anything good in society can be achieved by violence after what we witnessed during the 70's is really repugnant to me. may be you only have a cursory idea of the naxalite movement in bengal but trust me, you are lucky you weren't born during it.
never again, that's all I can say.

Rahul I always love to reply ur prudent points. But unfortunately I don't always find sufficient time. Thanks that today is holiday for me.

> what drove you to draw to the conclusion of 'empty rhetoric' when the issues I stated are palpable facts. Please explain 'empty' and 'rhetoric' seperately .
30 million people in kolkata live in slams. The poverty in the suburban India is only increasing.

> Just 1% of people holds the fortune and wealth that is more than 99% of Indian together hold.

>India is one of the most unequal Nation when it comes to wealth distribution. That is never portrayed. WHY? Still many 'Roop Kanwar' suffer in the middle age of darkness of un education and superstition in UP, MP,Rajahthan Villages. You only tries to show India as glamorous country of shopping malls and Private jets of tata, ambanis. you talk about crap like 'Ram Mandir', 'Bajrang Dal', you ( the righitists) distinguishes people in the name of caste, creed, religion. But the hard fact is that India is still poor with major chunk of its population is or below the poverty line.


> let me tell you that ur 'ability to justify the points has' every thing 'to do with' the rise of the naxals'. Its a hard fact.. plz Think on it. Its not about that single killing. I never supported that. I only stated a real and hard probability. please Don't try to fit words in my mouth.
['You' here is symbolic]

Its also a hard fact that the naxals/maoists are in a constant state of war with the Govt, whom they think as the main source of oppression. And we see death in both sides frequently. Is not it you Rahul , who once stated to me that death is a natural in the course of war. However sad it is. When we were discussing American aggression around the world.

> " I'm a class enemy right ? you are also included I guess ?(unless you are posting from classless "glorious china" !)" --> Tell me which one you like . Is not is good to have a call less society ?

>"so why haven't you joined the glorious revolution yet sir ? hypocrisy ?" --> What made you think that I am not involved in call struggle ? and plz explain what 'hypocrisy' u see in me.

>"if you really believe in that trash" --> I don't believe in Naxals means and their extreme 'maoists'/'left' goals. But their is certainly a need of Leftist movement in Indian states like UP,MP,Rajasthan,Gujrat.


>the system we have at the moment is our best bet, with effort from people who care, we might just make it work. --> Completely agreed. But their are scope of change(may be in the left way). We must not forget that the elementary socialist fabric of Indian economy have saved us 4m HUGH blow of the demise of Capitalist economy.

>"an educated youth of today can still believe that anything good in society can be achieved by violence" --> Violence doesn't only means guns and bullets. It also includes when people see their dreamz shattered in the hands of few unholy privileged. When people in some parts of the country are deprived of pure drinking water and people in some other parts, splash, swim and make merry in purified and processed water. In some acquatic park.

[nsa_tanay]

are you kidding me ?? "mainly the oppressors" ?
it is very convenient to paint every opposition as oppressor and then justify eliminating him !
classic case of "Give a dog a bad name and hang him".
in fact, had I been a maoist, you would have been declared an oppressor by now, simply for disagreeing with me ! clearly such a way of argument suits your way of thinking.

whatever they might say in propaganda, the naxal movement co-opted criminals in many cases, now it is nothing but a paid army of anti-national elements.

naxals regularly demolish all semblance of infrastructure in areas dominated by them, roads, train lines, power distribution units IOW everything little thing that might improve the life of the people they claim to be fighting for. whose interest do they serve really ? certainly not the local people !

bottom line : naxals are a terrorist/criminal organisation who kill innocent people needlessly.
supporting them on BR will not be allowed.

"in fact, had I been a maoist, you would have been declared an oppressor by now, simply for disagreeing with me" --> You r doing it right now. Simply because you don't agree with my POV.

[nsa_tanay]

As far I can see anybody who opposses a Naxal leader is a threat to them and put on a hit list. It is like a dacoit leader who kills anyone who opposses his tyranny. Anyone who is a naxal enemy is declared a public enemy and nobody can speak out against people who shoot you if you critizize them.

and BTW police and CRPF jawans come from poor people in India.

And regarding your rant against Rahul M , arent you also a person who has acess to computer, so you and I are also oppressors, how will the large scale killing of people help the poor in this country. then as per you logic poor countries can become rich by killing every Sheikh, european and american citizen. We also oppose corruption and are trying to clear it. how do you or maoists who have illegal collections help other further oppressing than poor people. What benefit have these Maoists movement brought to poor people.

"rant against Rahul M"--> I like the guy u r talking about, very much. plz consult some good eye specialists. As you can't properly read.

[nsa_tanay]

Deleted accusations against armed forces not backed up by facts.

[nsa_tanay]

nsa_tanay wrote Aditya_V wrote:
Waah what bravery by Maoists


Quote:
http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories ... 050400.htm


http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/28/stories ... 050400.htm

These communists use foreign weaponry and funds to oppresse the poor tribals and claim they opposse imperlism and fight for the poor tribals.

Whom are we kidding here, and the yellow media is talking about Binayak Sen but no discussion on this, or how do Maoists get expensive sattellite phones and weapons



He must have been a Police spy. We see these frequently in western part of WB.

What a convienient excuse he must have been a police spy, no basis for such a allegation and even if the poor tribal was helping the police( it is the duty of every citizen of this country to report criminals), what gives a particular group to murder a poor tribal here, murder a truck driver here...........

and please explain how do these maoists obtain satellitte phones, a satellitte phone Thuraya connection which a poor person like me can't afford but is still comfortbly feed my family.. What gives a group to kill people as they like and terrorise others. I dont like many people in my country and NSA_Tanay I don't agree with your views. Does it mean I have a right to murder you????????

Aditya, you stated "it is the duty of every citizen of this country to report criminals", But fortunately or unfortunately for some people , the idea of governance and social structure varies from rest of the country. Some people don't believe and support the democratic way of governance.


I think i should stop here. Again I never supported the Naxals I only stated a probable reason from past incidents and hard facts , that that guy may or must have been a Police spy. I did not justify the killing. Don't try to fit words in my mouth.

[sum]

Youth's hate SMS leads to clash

Hagaribommanahalli:

Enraged by an SMS sent by a youth belonging to a particular community containing abusive language hurting the sentiments of another community, a mob went berserk and set the youth’s car on fire, on Friday.
The police tried to disperse the unruly mob by lathicharging and burst tear gas shells. In retaliation, the mob threw stones at the police.

One youth and two constables were seriously injured in the incident. Prohibitory orders under Section 144 has been clamped in the town.

Superintendent of Police Seemantkumar Singh is camping in the area.Led by Hadugali DySP S Y Ellappa, Inspector Chandrahasa Lakshman Naik and his staff brought the situation under control.

Incident
A youth Akbar Telgi, who had failed in his love attempt with a girl belonging to another community, had send an abusive hate SMS to his lover’s relatives and friends which also hurt the sentiments of the community.

The enraged group laid siege to the youth’s house, demanding his arrest. When the police tried to intervene, the incensed group started clashing with the police.

They went on a rampage and set fire to two petty shops which were completely gutted. Later, they also set fire to the youth’s car.

In retaliation, it is said, the members of the other community set fire to seven motorbikes parked in Basaveshwara Bazaar and another bike parked in front of a sweet stall. Also the computer equipment in the weigh bridge near APMC were set on fire.
DHNews Service

[sum]

Bhatkal in news again

Was seized cash meant to fund terror activities?

K.V. Subramanya

Central agencies probing purpose of seized cash

It was apparently not part of hawala transaction

CHICKABALLAPUR: Central agencies with the assistance of the Karnataka police are investigating whether the Rs. 1.5 crore cash, which was seized from two Sharjah-bound passengers at the Bengaluru International Airport on Thursday, was meant for funding terrorist activities.

On a tip-off from the Intelligence Bureau, officials from the Directorate of Revenue Intelligence had arrested Farooq Imbiyaz (36) and Khaja Moinudeen (40), both from Bhatkal in Uttara Kannada district, and seized the cash from them when the they were about to board the UAE Arabia E9/498 flight to Sharjah.

Sources in the police told The Hindu on Friday that although Imbiyaz was an Indian national, he was holding a Riyadh passport. Moinudeen had an Indian passport that was issued by the Passport Office in Bangalore.

The sources said that during interrogation, the duo claimed that they were carrying the money to set up a rice mill in Sharjah. However, they could not give proper account for the huge cash.

Dismissing the claims made by Imbiyaz and Moinudeen, the sources said they suspect that the cash was being taken to the Gulf nation only to reroute the money to India through some other channels for carrying out certain nefarious activities here.

The entire currency seized from the duo was genuine and it needs to be ascertained who had given them the money. It appears that the two were mere couriers who were unaware of the larger motives of the people for whom they were working, the sources said.

The seized cash was apparently not part of a hawala transaction.

Normally, hawala operators do not smuggle Indian currency to foreign shores, the sources explained.

The Uttara Kannada district police officials on Friday visited the houses of the duo in Bhatkal and found that Imbiyaz and Moinudeen were from well-to-do families.

The arrest of the two men from Bhatkal has again brought the coastal town into focus for wrong reasons. Terror investigators from major cities in the country had visited Bhatkal a year ago as Mohammad Ismail Riyaz Shahbandri, commonly known as Riyaz Bhatkal, is the chief commander of the Indian Mujahideen network responsible for a series of bombings in Indian cities in 2006.

Bhatkal= Azamgarh of the south....

Seems to be even overtaking Kerala in this regard.

[sum]

One killed as APSP men open fire in Dharmasthala

ANGALORE: A 90-member-strong Andhra Pradesh Special Police (APSP) party deployed for poll duty picked a fight with local people in Dharmasthala on Friday afternoon and allegedly fired indiscriminately when people surrounded it. One person was killed in the firing while another was hit by a bullet. Many others sustained injuries in the melee.

Thousands of people surrounded the two buses in which the police personnel reportedly tried to flee. In the two-hour stand-off that followed, the policemen reportedly took positions in the bus and pointed guns at the crowd. The local police resorted to a lathi-charge to quell the mob, eyewitnesses said.

The Andhra Pradesh police had been deployed in naxal-affected areas in Udupi district and had come to offer prayers at the famous Sri Manjunatha temple in Dharmasthala.

The eyewitness said it all started when a group of children were playing cricket in Ashoknagar, close to the temple, and the ball hit one of the two buses being used by the APSP parked near the ground. The APSP personnel allegedly beat up a few children and others who rushed to their rescue.

Five or six APSP men allegedly beat up Santosh Kumar (25), rendering him unconscious, and fled the scene. Umanath Shetty (64), who put Mr. Santhosh Kumar in his jeep, soon found the two buses being surrounded a little distance away. He said that he saw an APSP picket taking out gun to shoot at people. He said he pounced on him in an effort to prevent him from opening fire. He was attacked with a bayonet on his foot by a policeman.

Subsequently, the APSP police allegedly opened fire at the crowd. As the news about the firing spread, over a thousand people gathered and surrounded the buses. Some stones were thrown at the buses. The local police, who rushed to the spot much later, chased the people away with batons. Many persons were injured in the process, eyewitnesses said.

Udaya was rushed to a hospital in Mangalore while other injured including Bhaskar, a Bajrang Dal leader, were admitted to different hospitals. Injured people were streaming into hospitals even at 8.45 p.m.

What is wrong with the AP police men?

Unavoidable incident, IMO...Good work by the local police to avoid a bloodbath where we could have needlessly lost so many elite cops and innocent locals.

[Rahul M]

@ tanay, first a request, quote only relevant parts of a post you intend to reply to. don't quote the whole post for an one or two line reply.

The poverty in the suburban India is only increasing.

may be in absolute terms (I don't have time to go through the figures ATM) but NOT in % terms which is decreasing. admitted it is going down at a much slower rate than what we would have liked but it still beats having an oligarchy where you are jailed in a glittering cage.
the worse thing is, in such a system, even if you are shifted to a rusty cage with no food, there is NOTHING you can do. naxalism wants to form just such a cage for all Indians.

when the issues I stated are palpable facts. Please explain 'empty' and 'rhetoric' seperately .

that sun rises in the east is also a palpable fact. it is still irrelevant to the discussion.

let me tell you that ur 'ability to justify the points has' every thing 'to do with' the rise of the naxals'. Its a hard fact

no one is arguing that tribal people don't have justified reason of feeling cheated by the state, due to the non-performance of its minions.
that does not mean that naxalism is the solution. now that the country has a chance of moving forward, the naxals are doing everything in their power to hold these communities back. naxalism is a problem, not a solution.
I may submit that I might have more direct and indirect experiences with tribal communities than most of the people who post here, you included.

have you any idea how the traditional knowledge and culture of the tribal people are being destroyed by the maoists who insist on forcing their own "revolutionary culture" on this people ?
they have absolutely no respect for these people's culture and knowledge, which is rich and effective in its own way. some of it can perform deeds modern science can only dream of. the maoists OTOH have a blanket ban on anything that these people have in terms of culture, except dancing and drinking.
the sheer chutzpah and arrogance of the maoists that they know better since they have read two pages of the "little red book" is galling to say the least.

[Rahul M]

30 million people in kolkata live in slams.
...............
Just 1% of people holds the fortune and wealth that is more than 99% of Indian together hold.

and your source is ?
anyway, you are wrong on both counts, it is very difficult to consider your posts seriously if you pull out fictitious figures from your hat. then it becomes little better than trolling.
BR expects better standards.

FYI, 1.5 million people, who constitute about a third of the city's population, live in 2,011 registered and 3,500 unregistered (occupied by squatters) slums.
have an idea about the numbers before spouting them, 30 million is ridiculous !
that's more than double the population of greater kolkata (kolkata proper and sub-urbs) !!
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkata#Demographics)

this is nonsense, tanay, no two ways about it.
......................

India is one of the most unequal Nation when it comes to wealth distribution. That is never portrayed.

wrong again, India is among the moderately unequal and among the most equitable distribution among the developing nations.
the measure is known as gini coefficient.
here's a list and map of the world in terms of gini coefficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... e_equality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 7-2008.png

suffer in the middle age of darkness of un education and superstition in UP, MP,Rajahthan Villages. You only tries to show India as glamorous country of shopping malls and Private jets of tata, ambanis. you talk about crap like 'Ram Mandir', 'Bajrang Dal', you ( the righitists) distinguishes people in the name of caste, creed, religion. But the hard fact is that India is still poor with major chunk of its population is or below the poverty line.

hold on, you are mixing up issues here !

I note that you bring up names of states of the so-called cow belt, a typical bengali mentality that thinks that bengal is the bastion of progressive attitudes shepherded by the intellectual elite.

Here's a reality check on left ruled WB :

http://dailypioneer.com/173349/Left-exp ... engal.html
30 Years of Left Front Rule in West Bengal: A Development Report Card. It quoted a survey by Jean Dreze, a Left-leaning social scientist, to point out that, “West Bengal has the highest rate of hunger in rural households among major Indian States.”

The figure for all of India is 2.5 per cent, for Bihar it is 3.2 per cent and for Orissa it is 5.9 per cent. In West Bengal, however, 11.7 per cent of rural households go hungry every night.

The Congress document also says “14 of West Bengal's 18 districts … are among the 100 poorest districts in India”. The single “poorest district in India” is Murshidabad — the former capital the riches of which dazzled Robert Clive 250 years ago — “where 56 per cent of the people live in abject poverty”.

“An astonishing 1.47 per cent of India's rural poor live in this one district alone,” the Development Report Card says of Murshidabad. It has sourced these figures from a study earlier this year by the Indian Statistical Institute, based on National Sample Survey data.

You only tries to show India as glamorous country of shopping malls and Private jets of tata, ambanis.

now you are ranting, most of us here care nothing about ambani's pvt jets. it is as relevant to this discussion as jyoti basu's continued residence at public owned indira bhavan in salt lake 9 years after he ceased to be a part of WB govt, at the cost of Rs 30000 per day to the public exchequer !

you talk about crap like 'Ram Mandir', 'Bajrang Dal', you ( the righitists) distinguishes people in the name of caste, creed, religion.

to you it may be crap but to millions of people all over the country it is not. (don't worry, I'm not one of them ! but I would still respect their sentiment.)
btw, does not this statement show the typical intolerance of a leftist ?

in fact the so-called secular parties distinguishes on caste and religion much more than the rightist parties (there's only one ?)

it is no wonder that the tribal population of India is firmly behind the very rightist party you claim discriminates against them ? how do you account for that ?
the RSS remains the only major NGO through the Bharatiya Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram that works for the betterment of tribals in India without destroying their traditional lifestyle and culture.

[Rahul M]

Its also a hard fact that the naxals/maoists are in a constant state of war with the Govt, whom they think as the main source of oppression.

and that automatically makes them right ? in that case the Indian mujahideen are also justified in attacking common people since they think in the same way ?

Is not is good to have a call less society ?

you mean class less society I guess. the whole idea is bunkum and it has been shown to be so in its history over the last century. show me one country that did achieve a classless society.
it's an utopia (sonar pathor bati as we say in bangla) that some people are still running after, it's not possible. human beings by nature have different abilities and aptitudes and there will always be people who will consider money making and capturing power to be their first priority, it happened the same way in USSR where the nobility was simply replaced by the members of politburo. the same still happens in china.
you might be able to achieve a classless society but first you have to transform every person into a buddha and I would still give more chance of the later happening but not the former !
btw, did you know they had special marked lanes in the big cities of USSR for the exclusive use of the political elite ?

at most, we can strive for a country that ensures the minimum of life's necessities and education to all and a chance to get ahead in life decided only on merit.

[Rahul M]

"in fact, had I been a maoist, you would have been declared an oppressor by now, simply for disagreeing with me" --> You r doing it right now. Simply because you don't agree with my POV.

really ? where ? I didn't expect you to post falsehoods !
I'm disappointed !

Who tagged them as terrorists. The Rich Babus in delhi ? Don't you think that the so 'good' Jawans who raped and Killed Manorama in Manipur are also terrorists.

sarcasm apart, how can an isolated incident of violence by four unruly soldiers (who have subsequently been charged by the govt) be termed as terrorism ?

(on another note, there was clearly an attempt by some Assam Rifles officials to push this incident under the carpet, they didn't succeed because the manipuri organisations used every legal and social avenue available to them to deal with the issue, in other words they used the various checks and balances that exist in a working governmental set-up peacefully and succeeded ! that is the way to do it unlike the might is right wanton violence method of the maoist crackheads.)

rich babus in delhi don't need to, its apparent that any organisation that has killing innocents as part of its political agenda is a terrorist organisation. or do you have a different definition ?

[Abhi_G]

nsa_tanay:
They say if you are under 20 and not a communist, you do not have a heart. And if you are above 20 and still a communist, you have no head. I do not necessarily believe in this since in my Indic worldview, each one has a possibility of having heads and hearts and age may or may not be a factor. You are talking about ambani and tata. Do you know about the contributions of the elder tata? Howrah Bridge anyone, indigenous steel, anyone? You talk about their jets. Have you heard about the dachas of Soviet era - special, exclusive resorts for the fathers of the supreme soviet....all the while when the rest of Russia was dying in hunger, labour camps and purging. What kind of benevolence is that? The economic disparity that you are talking about does not go away anywhere - whatever be the system. And it is more complex than just STATE OPPRESSION. Yes, we can reduce the difference to a certain extent. But to say that economic disparity will go away entirely, that is just a pipe dream. See it this way, if economic disparity is gone, some other disparity will come over. So it is a totally false dream that the naxals try to peddle - as of today, the findings of sophisticated communication systems among them is a concern for national security. Maybe something else is working under the shade of naxalism? And bottomline, how can one accept "Chiner Chairman Amader Chairman". Come on boss, after all this equality talk, why accept Han supremacy with such vociferous loyalty?

[nsa_tanay]

FYI, 1.5 million people, who constitute about a third of the city's population, live in 2,011 registered and 3,500 unregistered (occupied by squatters) slums.
have an idea about the numbers before spouting them, 30 million is ridiculous !
that's more than double the population of greater kolkata (kolkata proper and sub-urbs) !!
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolkata#Demographics)

this is nonsense, tanay, no two ways about it --> Yes Rahul that as a mistake. I could not remember the figure. I only remembered the a very larger part of the population in kol lives in bad condition. yes is more than 1/3
......................

India is one of the most unequal Nation when it comes to wealth distribution. That is never portrayed.

wrong again, India is among the moderately unequal and among the most equitable distribution among the developing nations.
the measure is known as gini coefficient.
here's a list and map of the world in terms of gini coefficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... e_equality
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 7-2008.png

suffer in the middle age of darkness of un education and superstition in UP, MP,Rajahthan Villages. You only tries to show India as glamorous country of shopping malls and Private jets of tata, ambanis. you talk about crap like 'Ram Mandir', 'Bajrang Dal', you ( the righitists) distinguishes people in the name of caste, creed, religion. But the hard fact is that India is still poor with major chunk of its population is or below the poverty line.

hold on, you are mixing up issues here !

I note that you bring up names of states of the so-called cow belt, a typical bengali mentality that thinks that bengal is the bastion of progressive attitudes shepherded by the intellectual elite.

Here's a reality check on left ruled WB :

http://dailypioneer.com/173349/Left-exp ... engal.html
30 Years of Left Front Rule in West Bengal: A Development Report Card. It quoted a survey by Jean Dreze, a Left-leaning social scientist, to point out that, “West Bengal has the highest rate of hunger in rural households among major Indian States.”

The figure for all of India is 2.5 per cent, for Bihar it is 3.2 per cent and for Orissa it is 5.9 per cent. In West Bengal, however, 11.7 per cent of rural households go hungry every night.

The Congress document also says “14 of West Bengal's 18 districts … are among the 100 poorest districts in India”. The single “poorest district in India” is Murshidabad — the former capital the riches of which dazzled Robert Clive 250 years ago — “where 56 per cent of the people live in abject poverty”.

“An astonishing 1.47 per cent of India's rural poor live in this one district alone,” the Development Report Card says of Murshidabad. It has sourced these figures from a study earlier this year by the Indian Statistical Institute, based on National Sample Survey data.

--> Partially true , but you must not forget that we also have to bear the burden of the Hugh influx( As per BJP s statistics their are almost 2crore illegal Bangladeshis living in India. And a 90% of them are living in WB) of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants coming into WB for last 60 years. A challenge which is unparalleled ,faced by any other state in India.
And who is responsible for allowing them in and providing rations cards/election IDs etc to form a vote-bank ? how can you even give this excuse when the left itself is responsible ??

You only tries to show India as glamorous country of shopping malls and Private jets of tata, ambanis.

now you are ranting, most of us here care nothing about ambani's pvt jets. it is as relevant to this discussion as jyoti basu's continued residence at public owned indira bhavan in salt lake 9 years after he ceased to be a part of WB govt, at the cost of Rs 30000 per day to the public exchequer !
--> He is a ex-chief minister. A bill was passed in the assembly where the current CM let the ex-CM use this residence.
and that makes it alright ?

you talk about crap like 'Ram Mandir', 'Bajrang Dal', you ( the righitists) distinguishes people in the name of caste, creed, religion.

to you it may be crap but to millions of people all over the country it is not. (don't worry, I'm not one of them ! but I would still respect their sentiment.)
btw, does not this statement show the typical intolerance of a leftist ? --> No its not intolerance , its stupid , unscientific and irrational to 'worship' something whose existence is .......
and that is not intolerance ?? btw, it is much more stupid, unscientific and irrational to believe in a pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo that is also responsible for the largest number of human deaths per year of its existence.
Also a terrorist organization like Bajrang Dal who killed 'Graham Steins' needs to be banned. .

bajrang dal has nothing to do with graham steines, dara singh was expelled from BD 10 years before the incident. typical of the false propaganda leftists use. goebbels would have been proud of you !
btw, CPM is surely a terrorist organisation ? it has killed who knows how many people over the last 30 years ? a very small list is given in Abhi_G's post down below.
in fact the so-called secular parties distinguishes on caste and religion much more than the rightist parties (there's only one ?)

it is no wonder that the tribal population of India is firmly behind the very rightist party you claim discriminates against them ? how do you account for that ?
the RSS remains the only major NGO through the Bharatiya Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram that works for the betterment of tribals in India without destroying their traditional lifestyle and culture.

--> I know about their work.


few more stats :--
> We were ranked 126 in the United Nations 'Human development Index' 10 years back. And now we are ranked 128
>In rural India, more than 80% of total child population, suffer from Anemia
>In the last 10 year (1997-2007) a total of 1,82,936 farmars have committed suicide.
> 83% of the populatione can not spend more than Rs. 20 a Day.


>India has the largest number of child labourers in the world with about 50 million children having no other choice but to work whatever is available to them at a paltry wage.


all this after more than 40 years of socialist rule, and you still think it works ??
compare where south korea or malaysia has gone in the same period after starting with a similar situation.
this is nothing but intellectual dishonesty/blinkered eyes.
put it simply, you are afraid of the truth and willing to live in a make believe fantasy world.



> Unfortunately in our country, the definition of poverty line takes into account only the nutritional standard or daily consumption level. It does not provide for a living standard that would ensure that children go to school regularly.

> neo-liberal reforms have to do with declining agricultural and especially declining food grains growth in developing countries


I think I should stop here . By the way Rahul Sir ji, you seems to be a very senior person who was there in the 70s. I thought you are a young one like me. How old are you ?

[nsa_tanay]

This whole post is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion.
Whether some left-leaning parties are adding more members or even coming to power does not change the basic facts about communism in any way. We don't even know the planks on which these parties are elected to power !
Even the church of scientology is gaining followers at an ever increasing rate, much more than the CPUSA I might add !!
so, that means nsa_tanay is ready to accept scientology as the solution of world problems ?
Rahul.
(I'm only extending your own logic !)

[shyamd]

Alleged LeT operative arrested

Staff Reporter

HYDERABAD: Mohammed Nissar, an alleged Laskhar-e-Taiba (LeT) operative from Hyderabad who disappeared in 2003 while facing trial in a terrorism case, was arrested by the police here on Saturday.

Nissar was caught on August 29, 2001 by the Hyderabad police along with another Hyderabadi, Abdul Aziz, who too went underground after jumping bail and is still at large. They were charged with planning explosions in the twin cities and Ayodhya then.

A suspended City Armed Reserve constable, Nissar was lured by Aziz to undergo militant training in Pakistan by showing him videos of the Bosnia war and other jehadi propaganda. Both were deported from Georgia’s Tblisi airport when they tried to go to Chechenya in 1999. Two years later, they were held on intelligence inputs that they were planning subversive activities with the support of Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence, police said.

After coming out from jail, Nissar ventured into scrap business and got introduced to Gulam Yazdani, an alleged LeT operative, through Aziz. Nissar told his interrogators that Aziz and he entered Bangladesh by crossing the border illegally in 2003 as the latter promised him to take to Saudi Arabia from there.

It was there that Nissar had met Ghulam Yazdani. Nissar developed differences with Aziz as he failed to take him to Saudi Arabia as promised earlier. After waiting for two months, he returned to India by crossing the border illegally again and settled at Meeraj colony of Humnabad in Bidar district of Karnataka to evade the terrorist module case he was facing in Hyderabad.

Nissar began earning livelihood by selling garments there and even recently secured a ration card and elector’s photo identity card with a fake name of Shaik Maviya. He told his interrogators that he later learnt that Yazdani was killed in a police encounter and never came in contact with Aziz or any other LeT operatives.

Trial of the criminal conspiracy and subversive activities case registered against him in 2001 would begin with his arrest, the police said.

Waging war

A senior police officer told The Hindu that a non-bailable warrant was pending against Nissar since he jumped bail and fled to Bangladesh six years ago. There were cases pending against him on charges of possessing weapons and explosive material and for waging war against the country. He was a resident of police quarters at Kulsumpura here until he disappeared.

[Mahendra]

83% of the populatione can not spend more than Rs. 20 a Day.

Which madrassa are these stats from nsatanay?

I thought you are a young one like me. How old are you ?

RahulM is very young like you but he decided to finish his schooling before he started posting on BRF which is why he sounds old and experienced to you, thought I must interfere in this discussion to point this out to you

North Korea currently holds near ideal class less society

Do you know Rahul that the membership curve of both Communist Party of USA (cpusa.org) and the socialist party of USA (www.sp-usa.org) are increasing in a exponential manner for the last 10 years.

1^10 makes for good exponential growth doesnt it

Do you know Rahul that all of South America is ruled by the left.

You forgot to add the part of South America which is connected to Mars by an imaginary bridge built and controlled by the left

Lefts are coming back to power in many europian countries ....Italy, France(hv a strong presence hope they come to power next time), Germany, Hungary and the latest to fall is.. Iceland. Their interim leftist government wins resounding election victory

Brian Lara and Yuvraj Singh are also memebers of the left as they bat left handed, btw, the rate at which Europe is falling to the left is making me think of becoming left handed myself, does Comerade Karat have a short cut way of doing this? Serious replies only please

[Abhi_G]

nsa_tanay:

Ask the members who are from the US as to why there is a steady flow of immigrants from South America and for that matter Cuba.

And secondly, please at least pay a bit of respect to the people of India who have an indigenous traditional belief. You seem to know everything when accusing them of being stupid. It is supreme arrogance at best. Ok here are some snippets for your info. Much more is there. You be the judge.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/content_ma ... nt&id=2015

The Left Front record of violence is long and bloody

* 1979: Rehabilitation unfulfilled for Dandakaranya refugees. Mass murder and mayhem, as cadres and police evicted them.

* 1982: Seventeen Anand Margis burnt alive in Kolkata by CPI(M) cadres for “inciting” people against the Left Front. (1982 IIRC)

* 2000: Tussle over land in Birghum, Keshpur and Garbeta met with bloody deaths. Official records are still missing.

* 2001: In Chhoto Angria village, CPI(M) goons set people and houses afire. Number of deaths remains unknown.

* 2007: Trouble starts in Nandigram over land, simmers for 11 months. CPI(M) goons “recapture” the area; loot and murder. Total dead: Unconfirmed.

[vsudhir]

LTTE supporters attack Indian army convoy in Coimbatore

WTF?

[Rahul M]

tanay, you are confusing big time between a welfare state and a communist dictatorship.

the former is no way the sole preserve of a communist dictatorship, the concept of a welfare state originated much earlier in India itself, literally two thousand years before it did so in the west. how convenient it is then to portray that only communist mass muderers think of serving the common man !
the fact that you are able to think only in terms of what happens in US and China/Cuba etc and nothing beyond, tells me much about your thought process.
(that is the problem with India, people either support US or they support china, no one supports India ! )

as a matter of fact cuba is the only successful example. btw, why do you bring up US at each and every issue, when did I say that their system is the one we should emulate ?

anyway, my final point on this issue : an organisation that seeks to subvert the very form of government in India and thereby stifle the voice of the Indian people, and do not hesitate to kill innocents to fulfill that, remains a terrorist organisation.

if you think otherwise, you are free to argue in the red menace thread, but don't post justifications for their terrorist acts in this thread.

P.S. I've added my replies to your post above by editing.

[ramana]

can we create various Internal/external security threat maps using Freemind/mind map software please? there is a lot of knowldege which just goes waste in these threads.

For instance what are the IS/ES threats in the South Indian states of:TN, AP, Karnataka, Kerala? Same for central indian states and so on and so forth.

Thanks,
ramana

[sanjaychoudhry]

LTTE supporters attack Indian army convoy in Coimbatore

WTF?

The Western evangelical countries (US, Sweden, Norway, UK) are fully involved in Sri Lanka theater on the side of the LTTE. Their original game plan was to first bring to fruition a Tamil Eealam on the island nation and, once it was consolidated, then export the tamil terrorism to Indian mainland with a demand to detach Tamil Nadu from India and join it to the Tamil Eealam in Lanka. There is a slim chance of this happening as long as most of the Tamils remain staunch Hindus. Hence there is a determined effort to convert them to Christianity. Then, like North East, it will be easy to persuade the converts in the name of the Lawd Gawd to attack the Indian army.

With the collapse of the LTTE, I am happy to note that their game-plan went into the gutter. Maybe someone in the Indian intelligence sensed what was in store for south India if LTTE was allowed to continue as cat's paw of the church and Western countries which consider themselves as modern-day crusaders. Good riddance to LTTE, I would say. India has dodged a bullet with this.

Things will return to normal once the old guard of the Dravidian parties passes away. However, at no cost should India allow Tamils to be Christianised.

[sum]

Brian Lara and Yuvraj Singh are also memebers of the left as they bat left handed, btw, the rate at which Europe is falling to the left is making me think of becoming left handed myself, does Comerade Karat have a short cut way of doing this? Serious replies only please

Things will return to normal once the old guard of the Dravidian parties passes away. However, at no cost should India allow Tamils to be Christianised.

Sanjay-sir,
I usually agree with each word of all your posts and am a huge fan but isnt the above stateent a bit too harsh on the Tamil christians?

[sanjaychoudhry]

Sanjay-sir,
I usually agree with each word of all your posts and am a huge fan but isnt the above stateent a bit too harsh on the Tamil christians?

It is the new converts who will be dangerous, not the Tamil Christians who have been Christians for generations. Typically, poor Tamil youth which has been converted in the last 15 years will be used for the insurgency. This is because the conversions during the last 15 years are deliberately being done according to a specific objective. These conversions are different from the earlier ones that have been occuring since British rule. After conversion, these new converts start getting brainwashed about decisive theories such as Aryan-Dravidian, Tamil Eealam and "Hinduism as an alien imposition from North India."

[shyamd]

D-Company linked to Bollywood piracy in big way: US Congressman

Identifying Dawood Ibrahim as the "godfather" of India's organised crime, an influential US lawmaker has said the underworld don's D-company, which also supports al-Qaeda, is heavily involved in Bollywood and linked to piracy in a big way.

"If you think about it, the godfather of godfathers, as he's called, of Indian organised crime, Dawood Ibrahim, is linked to piracy in a big way," Congressman Ed Royce said during a field hearing on piracy orgnaised by the House Committee on Foreign Affairs in Los Angles.

"Frankly he is a big supporter of al-Qaeda, and in the past, also the LeT (Lashkar-e-Taiba)," Royce said and held him responsible for the series of Mumbai blasts in 1993.

The Republican lawmaker said at the hearing last week that "D-Company is the operation" run by Dawood now.

"It's (D-Company) now integrated into every part of the Indian filmmaking industry, from distribution to loan-sharking, and I guess a special irony here, for those of you who saw 'Slumdog Millionaire' is the fact that a lot was made of organised crime there and the way in which corruption has that insidious effect," he said.

"Think, for a minute: the very people portrayed, the very organised crime syndicate, are involved today in pirating and undermining Bollywood, and undermining Hollywood," he said during the hearing, according to a transcript made available to PTI.

"If they weren't tied to terrorists that were engaged in this kind of activity we'd have enough to worry about; but this should really focus our attention, I'm afraid. The high profit margins in this kind of crime make it little wonder why gangsters and terrorists have turned to piracy," Royce said.

In his opening remarks, Congressman Howard Berman, Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said India needs to seriously address the issue of Intellectual Property Rights protection and prevent piracy of movies, which is resulting in huge loss to the entertainment industry both in Hollywood and Bollywood.

"Its own homegrown entertainment industry, Bollywood, is subject to many of the same concerns that plague Hollywood. We need to do better at protecting Bollywood films when pirated copies are sold in mom and pop shops here in the US," the Democrat said.

"As evident with the crossover success and number of pirated copies of 'Slumdog Millionaire' viewed in India, India needs to enforce adequate protections for multinational innovation as well," he said.

Dawood's brother was killed for ransom: Intelligence sources

MUMBAI: Giving a new twist to the death of Noora, brother of underworld don Dawood Ibrahim Kaskar, some media reports have stated the don's sibling was allegedly kidnapped and killed for ransom by a rival gang.

According to news published in an english daily today, Noora was abducted for a ransom of Rs 250 crore by another underworld gang, who later shot him dead and threw the body in front of Dawood's residence in Karachi, Pakistan.

It is believed Dawood is hiding in Pakistan.

According to the daily, 51-year-old Noora was allegedly abducted by members of Sardar Rehman Dakait, who operates from Pakistan, and later killed him after the ransom demand was not fulfilled.

The report also says that the rival gang had allegedly tortured Noora physically before killing him. His body bore seven bullet injuries.

Earlier, the family sources of Dawood Ibrahim had stated a massive heart attack as the reason for Noora's death. However, Intelligence sources here believed he was murdered.

Noora was known to have been handling several businesses of Dawood and company, especially the narcotics business.

It is also reported since past few years, the family members of Dawood are keen to return to India due to which he had sent his younger brother Iqbal to India in 2003.

However, Iqbal was accused in illegal construction of Sahara-Sara shopping complex and murder of a CBI(Central Bureau of Investigation) informer, but was later acquitted from both the cases and now he is freely staying in Mumbai.

[Keshav]

NSA_Tanay -
A humble request to better follow your illuminating discussion between Rahul and yourself.

Please use the quote feature, as currently, with "-->" and the needless color, it makes it very difficult to know who posted what.

Currently, you can only embed only two quotes but please take the time to separate each section you wish to reply to by using

<insert text>

and then typing your response.

In your last post with the blue and red writing, I honestly did not know which parts were yours and which parts were Rahuls.

P.S. Rahul. I don't want to drop one on a moderator, but do you think editing someone's post who they took time and energy to write is the right thing to do? I don't think you would like it and I'm not sure NSA_Tanay appreciates it as well.

[Rahul M]

Rahul. I don't want to drop one on a moderator, but do you think editing someone's post who they took time and energy to write is the right thing to do? I don't think you would like it and I'm not sure NSA_Tanay appreciates it as well.

as for the first part, you needn't worry, as long as it doesn't get disruptive, I appreciate a vigilant BR that keeps us from becoming tyrants.

as for the second part, it is the right thing to do if the said post was irrelevant and disruptive to the discussion. a member should know better than to go off on a tangent, especially if he has been warned before. at the end of the day my priority as a mod is to see that BRF continues to be a place for healthy and focused discussions and not allow someone to hijack threads.
hope this answers your question.
(if you have any more questions on this, plz email me or post in site suggestion thread.)

p.s. the red was mine btw.

[RayC]

Tanmay,

I loitered into this thread wanting to find out what is the latest on out here

I did get an impression that this was a humour thread.

Do try your best to be a wee bit relevant and keep your statistics true!

[sanjaychoudhry]

Triumph and tragedy in Sri Lanka

The Sri Lankan Army’s war against the LTTE should serve as a lesson for India’s pusillanimous politicians who advocate appeasement of terrorists. But we can’t ignore the plight of Tamil civilians trapped in the war zone, writes Rajeev Srinivasan

http://dailypioneer.com/173668/Triumph- ... Lanka.html

The LTTE’s idea of its ‘Tamil Eelam’ (they have taken down the maps on their Website showing this) consists of north and eastern Sri Lanka, all of Tamil Nadu and Kerala, and parts of Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh. In other words, most of south India. This is comparable to the jihadi dream of a ‘Mughalistan’ consisting of most of north India.

It further appears that this ‘Eelam’ was meant to be a Christianistan, in fearsome symmetry with ‘Mughalistan’. Let us note in passing that at the time of partition, missionaries had demanded a ‘Christianistan’ consisting of the North-East, tribal areas of the Central Provinces (Chhotanagpur), and Travancore. Clearly, they have not given up the idea.

The Church has a well-known modus operandi. In Rwanda, the Church fomented genocide by dividing Hutus and Tutsis — who, to the casual observer, and to the geneticist, appear identical — through claiming that the former were short and dark, and the latter were tall and fair, and that Tutsis were oppressing Hutus. Several Christian godmen and godwomen have been convicted of crimes against humanity for their direct role in the massacre of Tutsis.

In India, too, the Church has fabricated a divide between the alleged ‘Aryans’ and ‘Dravidians’ — tall and fair vs short and dark, oppressor, and oppressed — which was initially the handiwork of a White missionary named Caldwell. It remains an interesting but little-known fact that churchman Max Mueller, who invented the entire ‘Aryan’ fiction, recanted in later years, admitting he was wrong.

The Church has had a dubious role in Sri Lanka too. It is surely curious that most of the top cadre of the LTTE are Christians (examples include Prabhakaran, who is a Methodist, Anton Balasingham, the suicide-bomber Dhanu, who killed Rajiv Gandhi). Senior non-Christians in the LTTE, remarkably, have been captured, have died in battle, or been liquidated.

And the LTTE has wiped out all other groups representing the Tamil cause. The very ruthlessness of the LTTE is an indicator of its thought-process. The Church, and the LTTE, had no use for moderates or for negotiation.

The church's attempt to carve out a Christian country out of India at the time of independence was thwarted by Sardar Patel.

[Aditya_V]

"rant against Rahul M"--> I like the guy u r talking about, very much. plz consult some good eye specialists. As you can't properly read.

Hmm... Thanks for your advise and personal attack, please look at your post and paste it, people can decide after looking at your post.

My eyesight is perfect, its your reasoning which needs to be looked into.

[Arjun]

Triumph and tragedy in Sri Lanka

The Sri Lankan Army’s war against the LTTE should serve as a lesson for India’s pusillanimous politicians who advocate appeasement of terrorists. But we can’t ignore the plight of Tamil civilians trapped in the war zone, writes Rajeev Srinivasan

http://dailypioneer.com/173668/Triumph- ... Lanka.html

The LTTE’s idea of its ‘Tamil Eelam’ (they have taken down the maps on their Website showing this) consists of north and eastern Sri Lanka, all of Tamil Nadu and Kerala, and parts of Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh. In other words, most of south India. This is comparable to the jihadi dream of a ‘Mughalistan’ consisting of most of north India.

It further appears that this ‘Eelam’ was meant to be a Christianistan, in fearsome symmetry with ‘Mughalistan’. Let us note in passing that at the time of partition, missionaries had demanded a ‘Christianistan’ consisting of the North-East, tribal areas of the Central Provinces (Chhotanagpur), and Travancore. Clearly, they have not given up the idea.

The Church has a well-known modus operandi. In Rwanda, the Church fomented genocide by dividing Hutus and Tutsis — who, to the casual observer, and to the geneticist, appear identical — through claiming that the former were short and dark, and the latter were tall and fair, and that Tutsis were oppressing Hutus. Several Christian godmen and godwomen have been convicted of crimes against humanity for their direct role in the massacre of Tutsis.

In India, too, the Church has fabricated a divide between the alleged ‘Aryans’ and ‘Dravidians’ — tall and fair vs short and dark, oppressor, and oppressed — which was initially the handiwork of a White missionary named Caldwell. It remains an interesting but little-known fact that churchman Max Mueller, who invented the entire ‘Aryan’ fiction, recanted in later years, admitting he was wrong.

The Church has had a dubious role in Sri Lanka too. It is surely curious that most of the top cadre of the LTTE are Christians (examples include Prabhakaran, who is a Methodist, Anton Balasingham, the suicide-bomber Dhanu, who killed Rajiv Gandhi). Senior non-Christians in the LTTE, remarkably, have been captured, have died in battle, or been liquidated.

And the LTTE has wiped out all other groups representing the Tamil cause. The very ruthlessness of the LTTE is an indicator of its thought-process. The Church, and the LTTE, had no use for moderates or for negotiation.

The church's attempt to carve out a Christian country out of India at the time of independence was thwarted by Sardar Patel.

This deserves much bigger space in our thinking than it is getting. Exclusivist Christianism is likely to be more divisive and devious than even the challenge seen from Islamism.

I see a cycle of intense evangelization, leading to social fissures, leading to rioting - leading to calls of victimization and separatist demands.

In a supposedly mature democracy where all issues are supposed to be discussed during elections - were there any questions at all to Sonia Gandhi or to the AP CM about their stance on evangelism?

[Gerard]

Tribals demolish police camp - 5000 villagers raze govt building in Salboni to keep cops out

Nearly 5,000 tribals in Salboni, wielding shovels, axes and hammers and allegedly led by Maoists, today demolished a government building that till last week was a police camp. The structure at Kalaimuri near Lalgarh in West Midnapore — the first government building to be torn down by the tribals — took three hours to destroy.

[vsudhir]

Sanjay Chaudhary saab,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK1pnCldKZI

Must-watch IMHO.

Dunno what fat plans the EJs are making for South Asia but they are in danger of losing EUrope and Canada faster than they can evangelize us SDRE heathens, seems like.

Kindly watch that 7 minute documentary and let me know your views.

[ramana]

Vsudhir the original normative mission of stopping the westward inavsions has succeeded and hence there is no need to continue the charade in those lands. Please visit the Non-Western World view thread.

[Gerard]

Ambani chopper sabotage: 2 held; corporate rivalry ruled out