Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

archan · Post by **archan** » 17 May 2009 00:34

link to previous thread

The following links are background articles on Pakistan.

UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN:

Jinnah's Pakistan: An Interview with MA Jinnah, and how the Pakistan of Yesterday is the Pakistan of Today
http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf

The above is the testimony of Ashley Tellis on Jan 28th 2009, to the US Senate Homeland Security Committee on LeT's global role. It is a good articulation of LeT's past and future trends.

Know Your Pakistan
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... /Shiv.html

The Monkey Trap: A synopsis of Indo-Pak relations
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... ayyam.html

PAKISTAN-FAILED STATE: an ebook that owes its origin and existence to BRF.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/EBOOKS/pfs.pdf

A landmark article that demolishes myths built up about Pakistan
http://www.saag.org/papers8/paper710.html

Pakistani Role in Terrorism Against the U.S.A
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... yanan.html

Pakistani Education, or how Pakistan became what it is: Curricula and textbooks in Pakistan
http://www.sdpi.org/archive/nayyar_report.htm

Making Enemies, Creating Conflict: Pakistan's Crises of State and Society. A book written by Pakistanis on Pakistan.
http://members.tripod.com/~no_nukes_sa/Contents.html

Should Pakistan Be Broken Up? by Gul Agha
http://pakistan70.tripod.com/gul.html

PAKISTAN & TERRORISM:

The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups (Laskar-e-Taiba)
By Hussein Haqqani (journalist and Pak ambassador to US)
http://www.futureofmuslimworld.com/rese ... detail.asp

Pakistani sponsoring of Terrorism
http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/
http://pak-terror.freeservers.com/Terro ... y_Tool.htm

Terror Map: The Pakistani Hand
http://sify.com/news/specials/terrormap/?vsv=TopHP1

Ethnic cleansing in Pakistan - a statistical analysis
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... idhar.html

A chronicle of genocide by the Pakistan army
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

Documentary video evidence of Pakistani genocide in Bangladesh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-94U1bVUQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EBKlIUbpc ... re=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sMg9Ly9nK0g
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwPbkyZV ... re=related

Inside Jihad - How Pakistan sponsors terrorists in India
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/ ... r_sb1.html

Pakistan's Role in the Kashmir Insurgency - Op-ed by Rand's Peter Chalk
http://www.rand.org/hot/op-eds/090101JIR.html

http://www.boycott-pakistan.com/
This is a list of Pakistani businesses that may be aiding and funding terror against India and other countries.

PAKISTAN TODAY:

On the Frontier of Apocalypse: Christopher Hitchens seminal article on Pakistan today
http://newsstuff.0catch.com/article5.htm

Nuclear Enabler - Pakistan today is the most dangerous place on Earth by Jim Hoagland
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Oct24.html
http://meaindia.nic.in/bestoftheweb/2002/10/14bow2.htm

A Slender Reed in Pakistan - Editorial in the Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p08s03-comv.html

Seymour Hersh Interview
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_hersh.html

Pakistan's Nuclear Crimes (Wash. Post editorial)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... 2-2004Feb4

Commentary: The real culprit of 9/11?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/upi-brea ... -9906r.htm
http://www.indiadefence.com/LOA07Aug04.htm

BOOK REVIEW Fulcrum of Evil: ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda Nexus
http://www.saag.org/papers19/paper1844.html

Article from Vinni Capelli - Foreign Policy Research Institute:
Containing Pakistan: Engaging the Raja-Mandala in South-Central Asia
http://www.fpri.org/orbis/5101/cappelli ... kistan.pdf

Essential videos on Pakistan actively supports the Taliban - Files are WMV
http://hosted.filefront.com/C0pyLeft/1870150

The videos are from this documentary: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

A bomb at all cost By Ahmad Faruqui - a candid admission of the wars that Pakistan started against India.

Popular support for suicide bombings in pakistan.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg12_1
Survey by university students in karachi say 50% of respondents support suicide bombings in kashmir.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OWsmJIwe9Q4
"Descent into Chaos"
UC Berkeley Conversations with History, host Harry Kreisler talking with Pakistani Journalist Ahmed Rashid. 59 minutes 120 MB. It sums up Pakistan and lays bare all Pakistan's terrorist support and proliferation activities. **Note - he wants the US to solve Pakistan's Kashmir problem.

Pakistan on the brink: Video Link (must download)

archan · Post by **archan** » 17 May 2009 00:34

Last iteration of the chronicles of Pakistani grandeur has successfully reached its 72. RIP. Please continue here.

varun · Post by **varun** » 17 May 2009 02:36

Zakaria: Pakistan's crackdown will create chaos

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiap ... index.html

...CNN: Why is the Pakistani military still not capable of counterinsurgency?

Zakaria: Because they see their main enemy as India, and their forces are largely trained and equipped to deal with that threat. They have never fully embraced the view that their existential threat lies not in the east but in the west.

CNN: What about the argument that the military actually helps these groups?

Zakaria: Take a look at the book by Husain Haqqani, "Pakistan: Between Mosque and Military." In it, he writes that Pakistan's military world view is that it is surrounded by dangers and needs to be active in destabilizing its neighbors through the tacit support of militant organizations.

CNN: Do you think it is true?

Zakaria: While President Musharraf broke with the overt and large-scale support that the military provides to the militant groups, and there have continued to be some moves against some jihadists, there is no evidence of a campaign to rid Pakistan of these groups. The leaders of the Afghan Taliban, headed up by Mullah Mohammed Omar, still work actively out of Quetta.

The Army has never launched serious campaigns against the main Taliban-allied groups led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar or Jalaluddin Haqqani, both of whose networks are active in Pakistan. The group responsible for the Mumbai attacks, Lashkar-e-Taiba, has evaded any punishment, morphing in name and form but still operating in plain sight in Lahore.

Even now, after allowing the Taliban to get within 60 miles of the capital, the Pakistani military has deployed only a few thousand troops to confront them, leaving the bulk of its million-man army in the east, presumably in case India suddenly invades.

...

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 17 May 2009 04:01

Zardari rings up Manmohan, congratulates him on poll win

This was the first telephonic conversation between the two leaders since they last spoke over five months ago - a few days after the Nov 26, 2008 terror attacks in Mumbai that froze bilateral dialogue between the two countries.

Zardari has been rooting for better relations between India and Pakistan revolving around increased trade and economic cooperation and more people-to-people contacts since he became president in August last year.

Last week, Zardari said he was looking forward to resuming dialogue with India after a new government is in place in New Delhi. In the first of its kind statement by a Pakistani leader, Zardari also said that India was not a threat to Pakistan.

Manmohan Singh has, however, made it clear that the dialogue process won't be resumed till Pakistan brings the Mumbai attack culprits to justice.

James B · Post by **James B** » 17 May 2009 04:25

Could Taliban get keys to Pakistan's A-bomb?

James B · Post by **James B** » 17 May 2009 04:26

Time for more baksheesh.

Pakistan may seek additional $4.5 billion from IMF

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 17 May 2009 04:38

GDP growth rate further revised to 2.37% during FY09

By Sajid Chaudhry

ISLAMABAD: The real Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth has been further revised downward from 2.5 percent to 2.37 percent, official sources told Daily Times.

These estimates were reviewed at National Accounts Committee (NAC) meeting held here under the chairmanship of the Tariq Shafiq Khan, Federal Secretary Statistics Division. Officials from federal economic ministries and officials from provinces participated.

Federal government targeted GDP growth at 5.5 percent in the budget 2008-09; however, with the finalisation of $7.6 billion Stand By Arrangement (SBA) with International Monetary Fund it was decided to slowdown the economy to curtail demand.

Keeping in view the IMF programme conditionalities and the aim of lowering inflation along with impact of world financial crises, the government had agreed to revise its GDP growth target from 5.5 percent to 2.5 percent for the ongoing fiscal year 2008-09.

Here's the kicker

According to the official sources the NAC has also revised downward GDP growth estimates for the last fiscal year 2007-08 from 5.8 percent to 4.1 percent. Revision up to 1.7 percent in GDP has been done for the first time in the history of the country. Sources said that was done to project higher GDP growth in ongoing fiscal year from a low base. Otherwise, the sources said the GDP growth estimates should have been less than 2.37 percent.

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 17 May 2009 04:42

Gola news

Musharraf fumes at query about BB, Bugti killings

Asked whether he planned to return to Pakistan in the near future, he gave a vague answer and said he had many engagements aboard where he was on a lecture circuit. Therefore, he would continue to stay abroad and keep going back a firth.(sic)

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 17 May 2009 04:47

This is why the US will never give the pakis more than a generic after-action report on the drones...all this talk about joint control is news planted in the media to assuage TSP's H&D. joint control would expose ways and means...stuff like how the CIA was able to find these guys..

40 militants die in NWA drone strikes

Sunday, May 17, 2009
Senior Taliban commanders among those killed in deadliest US attacks so far

By Mushtaq Yusufzai, Mumtaz Khan & Haji Mujtaba

PESHAWAR/MIRAMSHAH: Forty people, most of them militants, were killed and several others critically injured in two successive attacks by US spy planes at Khaisur village of Mirali subdivision of North Waziristan Agency on Saturday morning.

“It is the biggest-ever loss for the Mujahideen in the tribal areas so far,” militant sources claimed.

Tribal sources said two US spy planes were seen flying over Khaisur village, 20 kilometres south of the Mirali subdivision, the second major town of militancy-wrecked North Waziristan tribal region.

The drones fired two missiles at a double-cabin pick-up parked close to a mud-house allegedly used as a hideout by the Taliban militants.

According to sources, the militants had just sat in the vehicle and were due to travel to some undisclosed location when they came under attack around 8:00 am.

Soon after the attack, other militants staying at the building arrived and started rescue work. “They were recovering bodies of the slain militants when the drone fired two more missiles, almost 12 minutes after the first attack. It was terrible as almost all the Taliban involved in rescue work were targeted,” stated a local militant commander based in Mirali.

Where's the thumb's up icon when you need it?

Pleading anonymity, he said majority of the militants killed in the attack were local tribal militants, and their bodies were badly burnt and split into pieces.

“We lost very trained and sincere friends. Some of them were very senior Taliban commanders and had taken part in successful actions in Afghanistan. Bodies of most of them were beyond recognition,” the militant commander said in a choked voice.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 May 2009 06:02

US bill links military aid to A Q Khan

If adopted, it will place Pakistan in a very uncomfortable position. To qualify for US military assistance, Pakistan will have to produce Dr. A.Q. Khan before American interrogators.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 May 2009 06:20

I think it just MAY be worth India's while to "re-deploy", even without a word from anyone telling her to do so.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 17 May 2009 07:07

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 17 May 2009 07:30

They had to fudge the figures to reach 2.37%...

GDP growth estimates of 2.37pc fudged: official
Sunday, May 17, 2009
By Khalid Mustafa

ISLAMABAD: The government has fudged the figures in an attempt to bring the reasonable GDP growth estimates of 2.37 per cent of ongoing fiscal close to the target of 2.5 per cent as agreed with International Monetary Fund.

If the government did not manoeuvre the figures, the GDP growth for current fiscal would be 0.5 per cent even if the cut in the size of GDP of fiscal 2007-08 by 1.7 per cent from 5.78 per cent to 4.1 per cent was acknowledged. And if the last year’s GDP of 5.78 per cent is kept as base, the GDP growth of the current fiscal must stand at -1 per cent, reveals the detailed investigation conducted by the News.

For instance, the Federal Bureau of Statistics (FBS) did not include in the national accounts the growth in Large Scale Manufacturing of -7.7 per cent registered during July-March period, instead it included the growth of LSM registered during July-February period that stands at -5.7 per cent, the official said.

Moreover FBS included dubious figures of growth of major crops in GDP growth estimates for 2008-09. According to Planning Commission’s Annual Development Plan (ADP) for 2007-08, the major crops growth target was 4.5 per cent. Under the ADP, the target of wheat was earmarked at 24 million tonnes, rice 5.7 million tonnes, sugarcane 56.5 million tonnes and cotton 14.1 million bales.

Every time pakis fudge GDP growth numbers, they go to the crop production numbers. Shortcut and gola did it too.

Advisor to Prime Minister on Finance Shaukat Tarin when contacted for comments over the massive reduction in last year’s GDP growth from 5.78 per cent to 4.1 per cent by FBS and NAC and not including the LSM growth in July-March period in national accounts and inclusion of faulty major crops figures in national accounts, he said: “Let me find out as to what has been approved by National Accounts Committee and then I will come to you for comments for response.”

When he was informed that the NAC approved the working paper of FBS as it is, of which the copy is available with The News, he said it is quite alarming if it happened so.

However, latter The News tried again and again for comments but his cell phone was found powered off.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 May 2009 08:04

Covert war to Covert Strategy: Book Review by Khaled Ahmed

The Search for Al Qaeda: Its Leadership, Ideology, and Future;

By Bruce Riedel;

The book is important from many perspectives. It is in general agreement with other authoritative authors on the subject of Al Qaeda. Its merit is that it cuts through quickly to the crucial themes under the subject and doesn’t waste time in academic detail. Under Clinton, he was aware that no one in Pakistan was willing to help the US take out Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden from Afghanistan after attacks on American embassies in Africa. He tells us of President Clinton’s rather revealing meeting with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif:

“Clinton raised the bin Laden issue with Sharif directly during the prime minister’s visit to Washington on December 3, 1998. The president asked Sharif to use Pakistan’s leverage with the Taliban to help fight against Al Qaeda. Sharif suggested that the United States help train an ISI commando team to take care of the bin Laden problem. As he explained it, Pakistan could not be publicly seen to be taking a tough line on the Taliban — that would only help India — so Pakistan would work covertly with the United States on the Al Qaeda issue.” (p.71)

In 1990, General Musharraf overthrew Nawaz Sharif. Clinton was a friend of Sharif and was greatly put off by the military takeover, but in 2000 he had the unpleasant task of approaching Musharraf again on the subject of Osama bin Laden. Here we see a clear formulation of what is known as ‘strategic depth’ against India that was later to give birth to Pakistan’s two-pronged policy of fighting terrorism and secretly protecting the Afghan Taliban after 2001.

“President Clinton travelled to Islamabad in March 2000 to meet with the new Pakistani leader, General Pervez Musharraf, who had assumed power. Clinton raised the Afghan problem directly in his meeting with Musharraf pressing him to use Pakistan’s leverage over the Taliban to persuade them to stop supporting terrorism and to arrest bin Laden and bring him to justice. I was with the president and was struck by the forcefulness of his message.

“Musharraf was equally direct and clear: he would do no such thing. Musharraf explained that Afghanistan was of vital interest to Pakistan. It gave Pakistan strategic depth in its struggle with India. With an unfriendly Afghanistan, Pakistan would have been wedged between two hostile neighbours and its army left to struggle on two fronts, which would have put it at a disadvantage against a stronger India. Therefore Pakistan had to maintain close ties with the Taliban and could not try to put pressure on them on America’s behalf. Doing so would also be unwise, he noted, because Al Qaeda had the capability to cause serious unrest among Pakistan’s own Pashtun tribes in the border region. Strategically, Musharraf stressed, Pakistan needed a quiet border with Afghanistan so that it could focus its resources, especially its army, on the Indian frontier.” (p.73)

The UN Security Council in 1998 had highlighted terrorism, especially the Taliban’s role in sheltering and training terrorists in their territory and demanded an end to the Taliban’s practice of providing sanctuary for terrorists. Instead of abiding by the resolution of the Security Council, the “Pakistani military assistance to the Taliban intensified”.

In October 1999, the Security Council passed another resolution specifically mentioning Osama bin Laden by name, “noting that he was under indictment in the United States for the African bombings, and asked that he be turned over”. In addition, the Council imposed sanctions, including a ban on all flight into and out of Afghanistan and a freeze on Taliban funds abroad. The Taliban defied the resolutions and “Pakistan stood by for another year without using its leverage”.

In December 2000, the Council adopted UNSCR 1333 targeting Pakistan more directly: it called on all states to cease providing arms and ammunition to the Taliban, prohibit the training of Taliban fighters by their nationals, halt any advisory support of the Taliban military, and withdraw any advisers or volunteers fighting with the Taliban. This was an indirect reference to Pakistan. Pakistan did not have to be named explicitly: it was the only country in the world providing military aid to the Taliban. The resolution also called for the closure of all Taliban offices worldwide and the Afghan national airline, ARIANA, worldwide. (p.74)

Pakistan stuck to its guns. The Security Council then passed Resolution 1363 in July 2001, creating a monitoring team to oversee the implementation of 1333, thus becoming the last of five UN resolutions after the African bombings that called on the Taliban and Pakistan to take action against Al Qaeda. (p.75) {This resolution specifically targetted Al-Rashid trust and another resolution in 2005 asked for the closure of Al Akhtar trust in Pakistan. However, Pakistan decided to close down the Al-Rashed and Al-Akhtar trusts only in Feb, 2007. The Pakistani interior minister later admitted that though the Pakistani government fought the case of the two trusts in the UN, they have to close them now due to the UN resolution 1267 as otherwise it will attract economic sanction} Pakistan’s resolve was broken only after 9/11 when it complied with Security Council Resolution 1373 and began acting against Al Qaeda leaders embedded in Pakistan. {The UN Resolution 1373 that specifically authorized invasion of Afghanistan also specifically asked Pakistan to reform its madrasseh. The all-powerful Gen. Musharraf himself could not or was unwilling to implement any of the madrassah reforms against the defiance of the Islamic clergy belonging to the All-Wafaq ul Madaris}

Riedel goes on to tell us that the Taliban benefited from a safe haven and help in Pakistan, even when the group’s long and well-established ties with the ISI and the Pakistan Army were cut by Musharraf after 9/11. This was most dramatically illustrated during the December 1999 hijacking of an Air India flight from Kathmandu to Kandahar, perpetrated by Al Qaeda, the Taliban and Kashmiris mixed together. (p.84)

Riedel says on page 84: “One thing is very clear. The Taliban and al Qaeda apparatus that operates in Pakistan does so with very close connections to the Pakistani terrorist groups that the ISI helped create in the 1990s. Moreover, the ISI itself continues to have close and intimate ties with these groups, as Gary Schroen points out: Since early 2002, whenever a raid has been conducted in Pakistan against an al Qaeda safe-house, al Qaeda members are found being hosted by militant Pakistanis, primarily from Lashkar-e Tayyiba or Jaish-e Mohammad group supporters of the Kashmiri insurgency.” {Al Qaeda ideologue, jihad theoretician and the mastermind behind Madrid train bombing, Mustafa Setmariam Nasar also known as Abu Mu’sab Al Suri, was arrested from Quetta, Baluchistan on Nov 1, 2005. His bodyguard who was also arrested with him turned out to be a JeM activist. Many Al Qaeda terrorists have been arrested from leT safehouses. Sunday Times reported in 2006 how groups of wounded Taliban have been treated at safehouses in Quetta.}

Most Pakistanis deny that Al Qaeda exists or, if it does, that it is located in Pakistan. Riedel believes that it is very much located in Pakistan and has a certain future plan: “Al Qaeda’s goal in Pakistan is to consolidate its stronghold there and use it as a base for global operations by exploiting the large Pakistani diaspora around the world, especially in the United Kingdom, where there are some 800,000 citizens of Pakistani origin. In time it hopes to see Musharraf driven from power (sic!), the army break apart, and the secular middle of Pakistani society collapse. Then its Islamic allies will take power, and Pakistan and Afghanistan can form the core of the caliphate in South Asia, wresting Kashmir from India.” (p.125)

What should America do? He writes: “A wise strategy [is needed] that attacks the al Qaeda narrative, its leadership, its sanctuary, and its branches. There is no reason for despair or defeatism. Al Qaeda has serious vulnerabilities, as I have pointed out. It lacks a cohesive vision of the future and a workable plan for government. It has often overplayed its hand and created strong blowbacks. It does not have the support of the vast majority of Islam but relies on small group of fanatics. Wise action will gain Islamic support against it. Failure to take this road will only lead to another catastrophe worse than 9/11.” (p.154)

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 17 May 2009 08:39

Indo-US type N-deal from France to Pak
And why did we have to go through the rigours of the NSG clearance et al?

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 17 May 2009 09:26

anupmisra wrote:

This one is too good....

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 17 May 2009 09:40

Dmurphy wrote:Indo-US type N-deal from France to Pak
And why did we have to go through the rigours of the NSG clearance et al?

That is a load of BS to shore up H&D. From BBC

Elysee Palace said France had agreed only to co-operate in the field of "nuclear safety"....A spokesman for the French presidency was careful to rein in expectations, saying Mr Sarkozy had "confirmed France was ready, within the framework of its international agreements, to co-operate with Pakistan in the field of nuclear safety."

I would like everyone to collaborate with Pakis on "nuclear safety"

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 17 May 2009 10:37

Gerard wrote:US bill links military aid to A Q Khan
If adopted, it will place Pakistan in a very uncomfortable position. To qualify for US military assistance, Pakistan will have to produce Dr. A.Q. Khan before American interrogators.

As always CRamS's predictions are falling in line

. Just kidding. So drone attacks continue, aid is conditional on access to nuke peddlers (overt ones like ZeroxK for a start), but no mention of stopping terror against India. So USA initially sets the bar which included stoppage of terror against India for baksheesh, and the final compromise involved everything US wants, and TSP's H&D preserved.

arun · Post by **arun** » 17 May 2009 10:56

“Tuhafiz-e-Pakistan Convention” organised in Lahore by the Pakistan Mushaikh Council:

'Taliban getting weapons from US, India'

Published: May 17, 2009

………….. The speakers said the talibans were getting weapons from the US and India and using them against the Pakistan Army. They said the US, India and Israel were working on the plan to destablise Pakistan.

They further said that the India had established 50 training centers in tribal areas with the cooperation of the US intelligence agencies. …………

The Nation

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 17 May 2009 11:06

Manmohan Singh has, however, made it clear that the dialogue process won't be resumed till Pakistan brings the Mumbai attack culprits to justice.

Clap clap clap... way to go MMS.

James B · Post by **James B** » 17 May 2009 14:32

Blow to Pukis H&D

Pak High Commissioner goes thru humiliating search

According to a source, he may have been reportedly photographed, fingerprinted and physically searched by taking off his shoes, belt and jacket before entering category A to see his country’s citizens.
According to a source, the same process was applied to lawyers and Consul Generals of Pakistan Masroor Junejo and Chaudhry Arif Mehmood at Manchester and Milton Keynes on their visits to prison on April 28, 2009 but Pakistani authorities did not raise any voice against it.

James B · Post by **James B** » 17 May 2009 14:36

A Pooki editor-in-chief (The Nation) openly advocating this

Govt should have convinced Taliban to fight in IHK

Apparently the army is chasing Taliban but it would have been better to convince them to fight in Kashmir if they are Mujahideen, he added.
Majid Nizami said that he had asked the prime minister in the recent meeting of editors with the former to invite Taliban or Mujahideen and ask them to go to Held Kashmir for jehad. But he found no answer in the meeting as the leaders avoided saying anything on Held Kashmir, perhaps restrained by America from doing the same, he added.

James B · Post by **James B** » 17 May 2009 15:10

From Yawn..

Talks in Malakand?

Prime Minister Gilani has once again floated the idea of talks with the militants in Malakand division, suggesting through his parliamentary affairs minister that dialogue is possible if the militants lay down their arms and come to the negotiating table. While there is nothing wrong in principle with talks, realistically it is difficult to see the government’s latest offer going anywhere.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 May 2009 15:13

raghunath wrote:A Pooki editor-in-chief (The Nation) openly advocating this

When the President of TSP says that he cannot take any action against international terrorists like Al Qaeda because they need Taliban to be used against India (Bruce Reidel's Book review posted above), when the Prime Minister of the same country says that his people will not like any action against the Taliban because that will be perceived as advantageous to India, when the COAS of a country that has nuclear weapons and has almost a million soldiers says that the Taliban are strategic assets and when the CJCSC welcomes the support extended by the same Taliban against India even as his army is seemingly fighting the same Taliban, you know that country is a terrorist state. No amount of fudging can hide where the sympathies lie. No amount of parsing will help. Let them openly state what they feel.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 May 2009 15:23

raghunath wrote:Talks in Malakand?

Prime Minister Gilani has once again floated the idea of talks with the militants in Malakand division, suggesting through his parliamentary affairs minister that dialogue is possible if the militants lay down their arms and come to the negotiating table.

Nothing surprising here at all. We had predicted here in BRf that the present military action was a hogwash just to lull the Americans and get the funding approved as Zardari was going to the US and other Western countries. Obama appeared to be angry on the eve of the visit. The Pakistanis therefore needed to appear 'sincere'. So, they went ahead and smashed some Taliban hideouts and killed some of them. A few hundred Taliban killed in the cause of Allah is all right considering the rewards the martyrs will get in the Hereafter and the rewards from the US that the Pakis will gete Here. Now that, the US has accepted the 'sincerity of Paki operations' and has agreed to give more aid than originally contemplated, it is time for Pakistan to do what it does best, double-cross the US. There will be a new 'peace deal' shortly.

James B · Post by **James B** » 17 May 2009 15:29

Survival without military & mullah - By Kunwar Idris

Some nuggets

When after the last-minute rejection of the Cabinet Mission Plan by Pundit Nehru (that plan was to keep India together with a centre administering only defence, foreign affairs and communications) partition became inevitable, Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, a great Muslim and a greater exponent of India’s unity, stuck to his conviction that it was ‘one of the greatest frauds on the people to suggest that religious affinity can unite areas which are geographically, economically, linguistically and culturally different. It is true that Islam sought to establish a society which transcends racial, linguistic, economic and political frontiers. History has however proved that after the first few decades or at the most after the first century, Islam was not able to unite all the Muslim countries on the basis of Islam alone.’

However in the present situation of insurgency in vast swathes and ethnic discontent and religious strife all over, Azad’s view that a common religion alone does not make a viable state has since won many adherents. If it were to be so, the military would not have been in action as it is now in Malakand division and was in Balochistan more than once. Nor would there have been recurring martial laws and sectarian mayhem.

For national cohesion Pakistan’s successive civil and military regimes have relied, besides the bond of Islam, on passion for Kashmir, hatred of India, friendship with China, aid from America and, when the chips are down, on the armed forces. All these props are now falling apart. The Islamic sentiment, in the current conflict, is being invoked by the Barelvi group in support of the armed forces and by the Deobandis to justify militancy.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 May 2009 18:27

'I was groomed for jihad in Britain'

Karkala Joishy · Post by **Karkala Joishy** » 17 May 2009 18:53

Dilbu wrote:
Manmohan Singh has, however, made it clear that the dialogue process won't be resumed till Pakistan brings the Mumbai attack culprits to justice.
Clap clap clap... way to go MMS.

Now that MMS has the best reelection mandate since Nehru, I hope he is more assertive.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 May 2009 19:53

SSridhar wrote: When the President of TSP says that he cannot take any action against international terrorists like Al Qaeda because they need Taliban to be used against India (Bruce Reidel's Book review posted above), when the Prime Minister of the same country says that his people will not like any action against the Taliban because that will be perceived as advantageous to India, when the COAS of a country that has nuclear weapons and has almost a million soldiers says that the Taliban are strategic assets and when the CJCSC welcomes the support extended by the same Taliban against India even as his army is seemingly fighting the same Taliban, you know that country is a terrorist state. No amount of fudging can hide where the sympathies lie. No amount of parsing will help. Let them openly state what they feel.

Well put.

However, the issue is what the US has said openly: that these yahoos are a threat to the US!!

And, I bet, the Pakistani game plan is to reduce this threat to a level when the US will AGAIN call these yahoos "freedom fighters".

But these yahoos have tasted the blood and will chase the US before they think of India.

James B · Post by **James B** » 17 May 2009 19:57

Pakistan army says 1000 militants killed

Pakis always kill terrorists in multiples of 10 (halal numbers perhaps.). Before it was 10, 50, 200, 600 and now 1000.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 May 2009 20:03

Manmohan Singh has, however, made it clear that the dialogue process won't be resumed till Pakistan brings the Mumbai attack culprits to justice.

Wonder how many more days till this line goes into the dustbin and the biscuits are taken out from the wrappers to be had with Chai?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 17 May 2009 20:06

^^^^

Sum saar, I was actually imagining parle-g biscuits being unwrapped by Indian babus.

archan · Post by **archan** » 17 May 2009 20:06

sum wrote:
Manmohan Singh has, however, made it clear that the dialogue process won't be resumed till Pakistan brings the Mumbai attack culprits to justice.
Wonder how many more days till this line goes into the dustbin and the biscuits are taken out from the wrappers to be had with Chai?

Well let us try to see if his comments in the past have been due to internal politics. Did he make his dhimmi comments when he had a compulsion from the commie anti nationals? has he changed tone since the commies were sidelined?

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 May 2009 20:08

Well let us try to see if his comments in the past have been due to internal politics. Did he make his dhimmi comments when he had a compulsion from the commie anti nationals? has he changed tone since the commies were sidelined?

Can only pray that is true or else five years is a very,very long time for a WKK like PM(if MMS turns out to be one) to be in power since amazing damage can be done in that period!!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 May 2009 20:21

Actually I think a BJP government would have been good news for Pakistan which would then try and do and equal equal with India and say that Pakistan has extremists who are angry at India's anti Muslim extremists.

Kaangress is bad baad news. IMHO

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 17 May 2009 20:23

>>I was actually imagining parle-g biscuits being unwrapped by Indian babus.

More likely it is the Marie biscuits... to symbolise going round and round in circles...

Raju · Post by **Raju** » 17 May 2009 20:24

shiv wrote:Actually I think a BJP government would have been good news for Pakistan which would then try and do and equal equal with India and say that Pakistan has extremists who are angry at India's anti Muslim extremists.

Kaangress is bad baad news. IMHO

India needed a muddle-headed, imageless party to take us through 2012 period.
Our cards are in place.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 May 2009 20:33

Shashi Tharoor could be a problem. People actually understand what he is saying.
Does he have "360 degrees of the azimuth" skills? Can he do chai, biscuits and mumbling?

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 17 May 2009 22:10

Gerard wrote:Shashi Tharoor could be a problem. People actually understand what he is saying.
Does he have "360 degrees of the azimuth" skills? Can he do chai, biscuits and mumbling?

Going by his election speeches and interviews in malayalam, I bet he can give any chai-biskoot babu a run for his money.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 May 2009 23:04

raghunath wrote: Pakis always kill terrorists in multiples of 10 (halal numbers perhaps.). Before it was 10, 50, 200, 600 and now 1000.

Given the entire population has evacuated the area they cannot be killing anything. Talibans are not as foolish to stick around to be killed in such large numbers.

I suspect these numbers are for local/domestic consumption. I find it hard that the US will fall for these numbers. Specially without verification.