Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 13 May 2009 18:28

There was one Asian country that had a shameless banana rule that you can enter the country without visa if you hold US visa. French are I guess too proud to have such rules..

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 13 May 2009 20:17

GOI would not let a Pakbarian in transit to enter the city simply because he got bumped off the flight. Had it been AI not a single parasite would have even been there to supply water.

I know many here are not AI fans, even if treated like dirt by much favoured furrin airliners with their minted furrin passports to boot

but there is another side which is never told. AI is notorious for being late etc and their ground staff at Mumbai in the past at least has been the worst scum on earth. Yet, in my experience both at Heathrow and at NY JFK they have been always exceptionally good. Twice our flights got cancelled from NY to Mumbai, and we were put up a a decent holiday Inn with plenty of food. Once on return I missed my connection from NY and they gave a hotel voucher with no issue. No other airline has been kind or came close in customer service in my experience. Considering that they have to deal with more louts from India than their foreign counterparts on a daily basis who demand services with mob like behavior (witnessed one recently at Kolkata with KF staff) it is quite understandable if they come across as a bit rude at times. But that is normal Indian behavior onlee.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 May 2009 20:51

pretty much all ASEAN nations, japan, soko I think permit visa free travel on US passports. except for japan
I dont think any are in the list of ~27 nations given visa free travel into US though.

they are doing it as a tactical move to soak up tourist and transit traffic.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 13 May 2009 21:15

Suppiah wrote:There was one Asian country that had a shameless banana rule that you can enter the country without visa if you hold US visa. French are I guess too proud to have such rules..

That is probably South Korea - they let you enter without a visa for 30 days if you have an onward ticket and a US/Canada/Aus/NZ/Japan visa or resident card. Interestingly they don't allow those with UK/EU visas to enter visa-free.

Hong Kong on the other hand, lets Indians enter visa-free for upto 2 weeks.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 13 May 2009 21:35

Singha you are mixing up PP and visa. To my knowledge other than the unnamed

country stated by me, no one else gives you automatic visa just because you convinced Unkil to give you one. That's like saying you will never stay too long in my country when you have the option of going to US. Practically no country in Asia (at least the ones worth visiting) other than China impose visa for US passports, or for that matter any 'white' passport.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 14 May 2009 08:11

Singapore transit rules are flexible. They WANT people to visit, but don't want scum to stay. Their rule is to give transit if you travel on a work visa or permanent residence, but not on a tourist visa. But the immigration officer have discretion to allow you, depending upon your travel history. If you have many B1s/Schengens on your PP, he will gladly let you in.

The AF pax problem is because of the French babus, not because of the airline. The higher up babus who can take decisions work only the day shift, so it often happens in night time.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 May 2009 08:15

for me it happened right in the morning around 9am. guess thats too early for the real babus to filter in from
their mistresses homes.

chilarai · Post by **chilarai** » 14 May 2009 14:46

Dileep wrote:Singapore transit rules are flexible. They WANT people to visit, but don't want scum to stay. Their rule is to give transit if you travel on a work visa or permanent residence, but not on a tourist visa. But the immigration officer have discretion to allow you, depending upon your travel history. If you have many B1s/Schengens on your PP, he will gladly let you in.

Its a smart move by singapore. They earn tourist dollars while leaving the job of personal verification etc to the US/EU Embassies.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 15 May 2009 20:52

Paramount Airways in expansion, to hire 1,000

Fri, May 15 08:40 PM

Chennai-based Paramount Airways is set to hire over 1,000 people in phases over the next 15 months, even as big rivals prune staff and fleet size to cope with the effects of the economic downturn. The personnel to be hired include cabin crew, technicians, pilots and ground staff as part of the airline's fleet expansion plan.

The airline, which now has 800 staff, plans to induct 15 new 80-seater Embraer planes into its fleet by the end of 2010. The airline current has five Embraers and the new ones will come in under leases that will save on upfront investment.

"We started on a slow pace and are now prepared to scale up rapidly. One aircraft will join the fleet next month and after that we will get one aircraft every month to operate a pan-India network," said 31-year-old M Thiagarajan, managing director, Paramount Airways, who is a pilot by training.

The airline recently enhanced its route network to western and eastern India. It is planning to operate multiple flights to north India in the next quarter, Thiagarajan said.

He said the airline is working to set up two more bases outside its main base in Chennai, where aircraft could be parked overnight for providing regional connectivity. "It could be at Pune, Ahmedabad or Kolkata where we can station five planes each," Thiagarajan said.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 23 May 2009 19:55

Delhi aviation player introduces PAC 750 XSTOL aircraft.

In a bid to tap the market for connecting the far-flung areas of the country, Delhi-based aircraft distribution player ASAP (Aircraft Search and Aviation Professionals) today introduced the PAC 750 XSTOL airplane that can take-off and land on relatively small strip.

"The PAC 750 XSTOL (Extreme Short Take-off and Landing) aircraft can land and take off from a clear level strip of just 300 metres to 500 metres, so it would help in connecting the far-flung and hilly areas where it is not possible to construct long airstrips for the wide-bodied aircraft," Ashish Bhushan of ASAP said.

It can be very useful for the North-Eastern states and the Himalayan region, where there are semi prepared and grass airstrips constructed during World War II but not in use.

"Connectivity has been a major cause for slow commercial growth in the NE region, hence this is the type of aircraft that can bring about the change in the way people connect, travel and do commerce, resulting in rapid economic prosperity in the entire area," Bhushan said.

The multi-role turbo-prop aircraft, manufactured by New Zealand-based Pacific Airspace Ltd, has the seating capacity of nine passengers and a pilot. It could be used as a passenger or a cargo aircraft.

The easy handling and manoeuvrability of the aircraft makes it extremely useful in evacuation during emergencies, fire-fighting, spraying of pesticides or insecticides, aerial survey and photography and for skydiving.

The airplane, which has a very rugged and robust maintenance free airframe, can be converted from one role to another within half and hour, Bhushan claimed.

The company has also got the necessary regulatory approval for aircraft operations from the Directorate General of Civil Aviation last month and "would be pitching it to government agencies."

While speaking at the launch of the aircraft, New Zealand's High Commissioner to India Rupert Holborow said that India has been designated as the priority nation by his government for doing business with.

He outlined tourism, education and merchandise trade as the areas of cooperation and greater engagement between the two countries.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 25 May 2009 07:21

Just realized that no Indian carrier seems to fly Mumbai Tel aviv???

Am I missing something

I see El al, Turkish and Royal jordanian -

Am I missing something??

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 May 2009 15:13

SIA is giving a deal for next 4 days India-changi.

depart upto sept30 for upto 14 days

11k round trip all inclusive. same price for child also. the "fare" part is only 1.5k and is non-refundable.
rest is surcharges and will be refunded. no changing of dates however.

I booked today. its real.http://www.singaporeair.com/saa/en_UK/c ... igbang.jsp

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 27 May 2009 01:37

Flight from Muscat to Chennai delayed after hoax bomb threat

CHENNAI: A hoax bomb note created a flutter amongst the passengers of an Oman Air flight bound to Chennai from Muscat on Monday afternoon.

The flight WY 857 had taken off from Muscat at 09:15 (local time there) and was scheduled to arrive in Chennai by 2:30 pm.

Enroute, the crew came across a note on the flight that supposedly announced, “You all are going to die, bye!” The note had been found in the toilet.

The captain of the flight then called for an emergency landing in Mumbai at about 1.15 pm where all the 135 passengers and four infants disembarked.
A bomb squad was pressed into service. It combed the aircraft but found nothing. The flight was then delayed due to some procedural formalities and took off from Mumbai at about 9.45pm.“Such pranks have cost a lot in terms of both time and money. This same flight was to take off from Chennai at about 4 pm,” an airport source said.

“More than 130 Muscat-bound passengers who were to take this flight at 4 pm will now be accommodated in hotels at the expense of Oman Air. They will take off tomorrow at 7 am,” an airport source told The New Indian Express.

Folks the word in Oman is that crew found a suspect package and a note in ze toilet.
Pilots decided on a divert to Mumbai.
Package removed by Indian bomb disposal team. Who did a very professional job in all accounts according to Omani sources
It was a complete elaborate hoax.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 01 Jun 2009 02:51

Collision averted at Mumbai airport

Mumbai: A collision between two aircraft ferrying 220 passengers was averted at the Mumbai airport on Sunday as the pilots aborted take-off at the last minute after they were allegedly given the green signal to become airborne from “diagonal” runways simultaneously.

“Our pilot was given permission to take off from runway (14/32 cross runway). The Air India pilot of Flight 348 misunderstood the signal and started taking off from the main runway (09/27),” a Jet Airways spokesperson told PTI here.

The ATC asked the Air India pilot to abort the take-off, the spokesperson said. “Our pilot also applied the brakes as a precautionary measure.”

manish · Post by **manish** » 01 Jun 2009 17:07

An Air France A330 flying to Paris from Brazil with 228 people onboard has gone missing over the Atlantic. People are fearing the worst:
French plane lost over Atlantic

girish.r · Post by **girish.r** » 01 Jun 2009 21:07

manish wrote:An Air France A330 flying to Paris from Brazil with 228 people onboard has gone missing over the Atlantic. People are fearing the worst:
French plane lost over Atlantic

Update from Air France: Vol Air France 447 Rio de Janeiro - Paris-Charles de Gaulle

Brief translation

Air France regrets to announce the loss of flight AF 447 from Rio de Janeiro - Paris-Charles de Gaulle, expected arrival this morning at 11.10 am local, as just announced to the press by the Director General of Air France, Pierre-Henri Gourgeon.

AF447 Aircraft F-GZCP A330-200 departed Rio de Janeiro on the 31st May 2009 at 19:03 Local time (00:03 paris time).

The aircraft went through a thunderstorm with strong turbulence at 2 am (universal time) or 4:00 GMT. An automated message was received at 2:14 (4:14 GMT) indicating a failure of electrical system in a remote area off the coast.

All civilian air traffic control Brazilian, African, Spanish and french have tried in vain to make contact with the flight AF447. The french military air traffic control tried to detect the aircraft without success.

216 pax onboard, 126 men, 82 women, 7 infants and babies.

12 crew (3 pilots, 9 cabin crew)

Captain 11,000 hrs TT (1700 on Airbus A330/A340)
Copilot 3,000 hrs TT (800 on Airbus A330/A340)
Copilot 6,600 hrs TT (2600 on Airbus A330/A340)

Aircraft equipped with engines General Electric CF6-80E.

Airframe had 18,870 flight hours since commencing service on 18 April 2005.

Last visit maintenance hangar dated 16 April 2009.

Looks like a long search operation

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 02 Jun 2009 04:05

Tata to set up Rs 1,000 crore helicopter unit in Hyderabad SEZ.

Tata Advanced System Limited (TAS), a unit of the Tata group, will set up a helicopter manufacturing unit at the Aerospace Special Economic Zone (SEZ) in Adhibatla village near the Hyderabad international airport.

The Rs 1,000-crore project will be commissioned by June next year and will come up at a 50-acre facility in the SEZ on land leased by the state government-owned Andhra Pradesh Industrial Infrastructure Corporation (APIIC). The lease deed was signed by an APIIC official and Devender Kumar, chief executive officer of TAS, here on Monday after Major Industries Minister Kanna Lakshminarayana was sworn in.

TAS will be setting up the facility in collaboration with the US-based Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation, a subsidiary of United Technologies Corp.

The project was announced at the India Aviation meet in Hyderabad last year by Chief Minister YS Rajasekhara Reddy.

Lakshminarayana said the government is convinced that the project will promote the state as an aerospace destination.

APIIC Chairman BP Acharya said this would be a high-end facility and would generate 1,000 jobs directly and another 4,000 indirectly. The APIIC is promoting the SEZ on 250 acres and has roped in several defence and precision engineering units in the private sector. “This is a major investment project in the state,'' he added

The ground-breaking ceremony for the manufacturing unit will be held in a fortnight.

TAS had a collaboration with Israel Aerospace Industries to set up a surveillance systems facility also at the SEZ, officials said, adding that TAS operations would be spread to defence products as well and would be the focal point for a large number of high-tech activities.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Jun 2009 13:46

More news about the AF crash.It now appears that it flew into a huge storm,whose severity would've given the pilots no chance at all had a catastrophe happened.Hrere's one blog about flying into storms.

"Fly around"/"fly over"—Sorry, folks, but where the weather systems of the two hemispheres "meet and greet," there IS, at times, no "around," and tropical thunderheads can reach over 50,000 feet—well above the operating ceiling of ANY commercial airliner in history excepting the "retired" Concorde.

PS:The above remarks will serve hopefully as a warning to airline pilots when they are faced with severe storms ahead.There are also questions about the Airbus' computer system suspected of being responsible for recent incidents.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Jun 2009 14:08

Philip wrote:More news about the AF crash.It now appears that it flew into a huge storm,whose severity would've given the pilots no chance at all had a catastrophe happened.Hrere's one blog about flying into storms.

"Fly around"/"fly over"—Sorry, folks, but where the weather systems of the two hemispheres "meet and greet," there IS, at times, no "around," and tropical thunderheads can reach over 50,000 feet—well above the operating ceiling of ANY commercial airliner in history excepting the "retired" Concorde.

PS:The above remarks will serve hopefully as a warning to airline pilots when they are faced with severe storms ahead.There are also questions about the Airbus' computer system suspected of being responsible for recent incidents.

With all the wealth of expertise in the cockpit as detailed by Air France themselves, the crew could have turned back.

The weather would have painted on the radar from a long way out and the severity would have also been apparent.

Lightning? All modern aircraft are protected against it by design and tested extensively during development. May have been a really massive strike that knocked out multiple onboard systems.

Very rarely, turbulence can stress airframes beyond design limits.

Poor souls, when the time comes.........

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 02 Jun 2009 19:52

Chopper pilots can train in Bangalore.

The city will soon get a helicopter training centre, and the foundation stone for it was laid on Monday. The `Helicopter Academy to
Train by Simulation of Flying' (Hatsoff) is an equally owned joint venture between HAL and CAE. The centre will be operational by mid-2010.

HAL director (HR) Sanjeev Sahi said Hatsoff will offer `level-D' simulator training to helicopter pilots and maintainers. "By partnering with CAE, we are making sure the technology
is the best. It should produce skilled and mission-ready crews," he explained.

Chairman of Hatsoff board of directors Martin Gagn said the centre will also enhance safety and mission readiness of pilots and support personnel. Gagn is also president (military simulation) of CAE Group.

A CAE-built simulator will be installed at the centre, featuring a roll-on/roll-off cockpit design, which enables cockpits of different helicopters to be used.

Hatsoff can train up to 400 helicopter pilots per year. Initially, the centre will target civil and military customers operating four helicopter types: the military variant of HAL-built Dhruv, civilian variant of Dhruv, Bell 412 and Eurocopter Dauphin.

Hatsoff will feature multimedia classrooms, computer-based training and a training management information system, among others. The simulator will have a common motion system, vibration platform, visual display system, etc.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Jun 2009 23:05

Air France Mystery: Was Lightning to Blame?

Virtually every commercial aircraft in the world is hit by lightning at least once a year according to Dr. Steven Skinner, an aerospace engineering professor at Wichita State University. However, lightning generally passes harmlessly through aluminum-skinned aircraft. And, before they are even installed, the electrical and communication systems aboard are designed, tested and certified to withstand the sudden current surges that a lightning strike produces. These systems are redundant and can be powered by backup generators, including wind-powered ram-air turbines, that deploy in the event all engines fail. Composite aircraft, such as the Boeing 787, have structures impregnated with metallic mesh that perform similarly to all-aluminum aircraft when struck by lightning, giving the energy a clear pathway out of the airplane without damage to structures or systems.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Jun 2009 23:53

Signal failure indicates 'rapid' Air France catastrophe: official

"No signal from any of the three beacons on board the Air France A330 was picked up by satellites," said Philippe Hazane, deputy director of the National Centre for Space Studies (CNES), a French government agency for space policy.

"If no signal has been registered that indicates that they were destroyed before they could emit one and therefore that the catastrophe was very rapid."

Distress beacons are fixed to all passenger planes and emit an automatic signal when the plane is in distress, taking a dangerous route or suffering a crash. Signals cannot be picked if the beacons are underwater, Hazane said.

The crash switch on the ELTs (emergency locator transmitters) "beacons" actuate only at an impact force of 11g or greater. These transmit on 121.5 or 406 MHz. They can be automatically picked up by satellite or any passing aircraft

Additionally

Each plane carries two black boxes, a flight data recorder and a cockpit voice recorder, and they are essential in helping investigators in the painstaking search for the cause of a plane crash.

Each black box is equipped with an underwater sonar locator beacon ( powered by salt water batteries ie works only when the sonar beacon is submerged in the sea ) that sends out an ultrasonic signal detectable by sonar and acoustical locating equipment, but for only 30 days.

The problem is that the swath of the Atlantic Ocean where the plane appears to have gone down, located about 820 kilometres north-east of the Brazilian archipelago of Fernando de Noronha, has depths of 3,000 to 4,000 metres, making recovery of the black boxes difficult if not impossible.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jun 2009 00:27

@3000 mts no conventional submarine can make it. only some ultra specialized bathscapes might make it but first some deep submergence UUV has to locate it.

all in all, a very sad event. RIP poor souls.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 03 Jun 2009 03:02

I feel for the poor passengers and crew - must have been truly horrible - I hope to God death was instantaneous

In some ways it may be worse for the relatives.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 03 Jun 2009 03:38

It will be imlosion of the body instamatically like in the case of shuttle tragedy

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 03 Jun 2009 07:43

RIP Air France crew and passengers

.

BTW, Air India has grounded/de-rostred two of its pilots after the high-risk incident at Mumbai Airport. A Jet Airways flight and Air India flight was moving towards a head on collission. It has now been found that Air India pilots jumped the gun and started moving. ATC had only asked the Jet Airways flight to go ahead.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Jun 2009 08:29

Guys, check out the link.

This guy's analysis is awesome.

France Flight 447: A detailed meteorological analysis

Overall what we know for sure is weather was a factor and the flight definitely crossed through a thunderstorm complex. There is a definite correlation of weather with the crash. However the analysis indicates that the weather is not anything particularly exceptional in terms of instability or storm structure. It’s my opinion that tropical storm complexes identical to this one have probably been crossed hundreds of times over the years by other flights without serious incident.

Still, in the main MCS alone, the A330 would have been flying through significant turbulence and thunderstorm activity for about 75 miles (125 km), lasting about 12 minutes of flight time. Of course anything so far is speculation until more evidence comes in, and for all we know the cause of the downing could have been anything from turbulence to coincidental problems like a cargo fire.

My own opinion of the crash cause, as of Monday night, based on the complete lack of a HF radio call and consideration of all of the above, suggests severe turbulence (see the BOAC 911 and BNF 250 tragedies) combining in some unlikely way with CRM/design/maintenance/procedural/other deficiencies to trigger a failure cascade. We can almost certainly count on some unexpected surprises once the CVR is recovered. Until then, all we can do is await the investigation and hope that the world’s flight operations stay safe until AFR447’s lessons are revealed.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 04 Jun 2009 20:15

Chennai students build aircraft.

Three engineering students from Chennai have designed and built a two-seater aircraft in less than five months as part of their aeronautical course project.

Jukaki Skyraider is India’s first powered aircraft that has been built from scratch by students. The three are Justin George, Kishore K. and Kalyan Shreshta of the Aeronautical Department Hindustan University (deemed) on the outskirts of Chennai.

Although the Skyraider looks boxy and not as robust as the commercially built turbo-prop aircraft, a lot of improvisation and innovation lies beneath its bright red fuselage and large white wings.

It is powered by a Maruti Esteem’s 1,300cc engine from Chennai’s second-hand automobile market. “Since the Esteem’s engine had a very high rpm of 6,000 and this aircraft needed only 3,000 rpm, but providing greater torque we revved it down to suit our needs,” explained Justin.

“Since the frame had to be light yet sturdy, we used special aluminium tubes which could be welded only using tungsten gas. Thankfully, we found a fabricator who had the facility and knowhow of the special metallurgy needs our project required,” said a grateful Kishore. A local carpenter was happy to fabricate the wooden propeller free of cost.

The wheel assembly came from an LCV (light commercial vehicle), the wings and the fuselage are covered with light weight aluminium and the instrumentation looks like that of an old Ambassador car.

“We still need to equip it with an air-speed indicator, altimeter, gyroscope and a radio transponder to make it worthy of air certification by the DGCA,” pointed out Kalyan. That would mean an expense of another Rs1 lakh with the team having already spent close to Rs 5lakh from their own pockets.

As of now, the students could only demonstrate the aircraft’s ground mobility by taking it for a spin on the college’s football ground.

“The plane is definitely air worthy as the boys have built it as per the parameters of aerodynamics that would give it the necessary thrust and lift to make it and keep it airborne,” asserted. P.S. Venkatanarayanan, the students’ project guide.

An assistant professor of aerospace engineering at IIT Bombay said: “If it was entirely done by students — even with faculty mentoring — I would say, it is pretty significant.”

Hemandra Arya added: “Designing an aircraft is a challenging task. This class of aircraft is called home-built aircraft. Success would depend on the values of the wing loading and thrust loading numbers for the aircraft. The values have to fall within a specific range — if they do, they have a great chance of success.”

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 05 Jun 2009 13:41

Parasites want Rs. 14,000 crores of your money so they can continue to sit and f.rt!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/air-i ... ut/471669/

The endless loot and plunder by the parasites and the irresponsible throwing of money into the bottomless pit called AI to pamper a few overpaid and under-worked parasites continues..

Now that UPA regime is not dancing to traitor tunes, it should sell of AI planes, declare AI bankrupt and wipe out the PF balances of its parasites as a penalty for sabotaging India's aviation, export and tourist economies over so many years.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2009 14:06

Brazil now days debris recovered are not from A330 at all! infact no piece of the A330 found yet, though its claimed debris photo'ed initially from air are from A330.

methinks some kind of dimensional portal opened up and captured/destroyed the a/c in its
energy field.

or some secret chupacabra type experiment gone horribly wrong...like a space based weapon
to target moving a/c ? maybe it was being tracked and some dumb blonde in the MIB bunker pressed the "fire" button by mistake.

french should send a SSN and try to sniff for US bathyscapes and special ops subs prowling around. that will tell its own tale.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 05 Jun 2009 17:06

Avoiding goof-ups: Indian airports rely on human eye

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2009 21:57

this morn I was speculating a french SSN be sent to scout for signs of wrong doing and lo here it is.

Nuclear sub to join hunt for jet

A French nuclear submarine is being sent to help find an Air France jet which disappeared over the Atlantic.

French defence minister Herve Morin said the hunter-killer submarine had surveillance equipment that could help find the plane's flight data recorders.

As the search continued, it was revealed that debris salvaged from the sea was not from the jet.

Airbus has reissued guidelines to pilots after experts said the plane may have had false speed measurements.

A spokesman for Airbus said that a notice had been sent reminding Airbus air crews worldwide what to do when speed indicators give conflicting read-outs.

Spokesman Justin Dubon said that the inconsistent readings meant that "the air speed of the aircraft was unclear".

He said that in such circumstances, flight crews should maintain thrust and pitch and - if necessary - level off the plane and start troubleshooting procedures as detailed in operating manuals.

The BBC's Tom Symonds says erratic speed readings could have been caused by heavy turbulence and might have caused the plane's automatic throttle to power up or down as it passed through heavy storms.

Meteorologists say that the Air France Flight 447 had entered an unusual storm with 100mph (160km/h) updrafts that sucked water up from the ocean.

As the moisture reached the plane's high altitude it quickly froze in -40C temperatures. The updrafts would also have created dangerous turbulence, they say.

The Airbus A330 jet vanished over the Atlantic en-route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris on Monday with 228 people on board.

A small group of relatives of those on board the plane has gone to the north-eastern Brazilian city of Recife where the rescue operation is based. They are to be given a chance to tour the facility and to ask questions.

As the search continued on Friday, it was revealed that a wooden pallet and a fuel slick in the vicinity of the plane's last known position were not from the jet.

Brazilian air force official Brig Ramon Borges Cardoso contradicted earlier reports, saying "no material from the plane has been recovered".

"It has been verified that the material did not belong to the plane, they were wood pallets that were used by ships and sometimes planes, but in this flight to Paris, there were no wood pallets," Brig Cardoso said.

The slick was most likely from a passing ship, he said.

Navy ships are reported to be scouring the ocean, about 1,100km (690 miles) north-east of Brazil's coast, in an effort to locate other debris spotted from the air on Tuesday and Wednesday.

Research ship

A French marine research ship equipped with two non-nuclear mini-submarines is already on its way to the area.

Rescuers hold out more hope that what was reported to be a seat and a large chunk of metal could have come from the plane, reports say.

Three more Brazilian boats and a French ship equipped with small submarines are expected to arrive in the area in the next few days.

French military spokesman Christophe Prazuck said the priority was looking for wreckage from the plane, before turning the search to flight data recorders.

"The clock is ticking on finding debris before they spread out and before they sink or disappear," he said.

French officials have said the recorders, which could be deep under water, may never be found.

Officials have warned that they are far from working out the cause of the crash.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jun 2009 07:20

The U.S. Navy is sending two high-tech devices to French ships that will help them locate the black boxes, Pentagon spokesman Navy Cmdr. Jeffrey Gordon said Sunday.

The Towed Pinger Locators, which can detect emergency beacons to a depth of 20,000 feet (6,100 meters), are being flown to Brazil on Monday with a U.S. Navy team.

The team will deliver the locators to two French tugs that will use them to listen for transmissions from the black box

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 08 Jun 2009 07:38

This blackbox in A330 will emit signals for 30 days. With mammoth area to be searched its going to be daunting task for them. Possibly this accident will trigger requirement for blackbox emitting signals for more longer period.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Jun 2009 23:04

Accident analysis paki style

Whatever this guy is smoking, its good.

I know what happened to the Air France Flight 447

According to Air France CEO Pierre-Henry Gourgeon the Air France AirBus flying from Rio to Paris transmitted "a succession of a dozen technical messages" indicating that "several electrical systems had broken down" which caused a "totally unprecedented situation in the plane."

Gourgeon is wrong. The events that resulted in the death of 128 people over the Atlantic were precedented. There have been several similar events.

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 09 Jun 2009 12:03

^^ That's hilarious! Even subject as tragic as an aircrash has to be twisted into a YYY conspiracy by these paki clowns.

Reuters has reported that AirBus is claiming that the Airbus A330 has a good safety record, with no fatal accidents on a commercial flight. This is a falsehood that Reuters did not bother to correct.

In Miami in 1999 pilot and co-pilot of an American Airlines Airbus A300 about to land suddenly lost control of the plane...

On Novemeber 12, 2001 American Airlines flight 587, an Airbus A300, lost control....

By paki M-Math 300=330.

Now perhaps we can begin to suspect that there was someone on that Air France Flight that the people who benefited from the remote-control crash of the 9-11 planes and the 11/12/01 plane did not like.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 09 Jun 2009 12:42

And NTSB was NTSP in a couple of places as well. We know where that comes from.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 09 Jun 2009 12:54

Gaurav_S wrote:This blackbox in A330 will emit signals for 30 days. With mammoth area to be searched its going to be daunting task for them. Possibly this accident will trigger requirement for blackbox emitting signals for more longer period.

Guru log I have been asking this question/suggestion since the BRF avtar (1997)

Why cant the CVR and Black box be fitted with automatic floatation devices, since 75% of the earth is covered by water, it will be so easy if a a/c comes down in water body. I know these devices are heavy due (to the chasis ) requirements of being fire proof, vibration shock proof etc.

***
added later

I heard some say that the pitot tubes for air speed might have been clogged with ice hence differntial sppeds were being reported by the transducers and auto pilot was on there by compounding the problem of auto correction

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jun 2009 15:33

floation devices will only work if the recorders are fitted into a VL tube atop the cockpit and a altimeter fires them off if the plane is about to crash, or a water sensor lets loose a compressed air cartridge later. adds to the expense and complexity I would think...

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 09 Jun 2009 16:20

Here is possibly the answer for not making FDR floatable.

In the United States, when investigators locate a black box it is transported to the computer labs at the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). Special care is taken in transporting these devices in order to avoid any (further) damage to the recording medium. In cases of water accidents, recorders are placed in a cooler of water to keep them from drying out.

"What they are trying to do is preserve the state of the recorder until they have it in a location where it can all be properly handled," Doran said. "By keeping the recorder in a bucket of water, usually it's a cooler, what they are doing is just keeping it in the same environment from which it was retrieved until it gets to a place where it can be adequately disassembled."

Also, blackbox is obviously connected by all wiring and sensors and usually sits in the tail. Making it even harder to make it float.