Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - May 16 2009

archan · Post by **archan** » 03 Jun 2009 03:48

Keshav wrote: As long as their are remnants of neo-conservative and Atlanticist thinkers are in Obama's neighborhood, an arms race with Pakistan is going to be an arms race with America - one which India will lose and certainly be blamed for.

I'd have taken that a decade ago, or even 5 years ago. But in today's circumstances, I have my doubts. Like I said, unkil does not have an infinite source of dollars. They have begun to ask for balance sheets (unlike in the past when there were reports during Mushy days that the dollar bills were literally offloaded in large bags with no questions asked). They cannot afford this for too long.
And somehow, I don't care about "being blamed for" anything in the international circle. You will still have friends and you will still have enemies - both will be temporary and circumstantial.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 03 Jun 2009 03:50

Anujan wrote:
Army recovers 79 kidnapped students from militants

Wiki entry of Cadet College Razmak

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 03 Jun 2009 03:50

Hafiz Saeed set free
During the proceedings, petitioners’ counsel AK Dogar had claimed the government’s plea to detain his clients in the public interest was wrong. Members of the JD are good Muslims who follow the example of the holy Prophet (peace be upon him), he said, claiming it was part of a Western conspiracy to defame Islam.

Dogar submitted that the victims of the Marriott Hotel blast in Islamabad were bad Muslims who drank champagne.

Indeed.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 03 Jun 2009 04:21

Keshav wrote:RajeshA, archan, sudeepj -
Thanks for the impassioned responses.

archan wrote:Again, an armed race with pak is not going to bankrupt India. We are talking about a nation on life support from IMF. The equality is not even close to what it was between US/USSR. What is our defense budget after all. Until like last year, it was much less than what it should have been.
As long as their are remnants of neo-conservative and Atlanticist thinkers are in Obama's neighborhood, an arms race with Pakistan is going to be an arms race with America - one which India will lose and certainly be blamed for.

While Pakistan isn't North Korea, we're talking about an establishment that is willing to do what it takes either for greed or for Islam (at the cost of a few Abduls here or there). Who's to say they won't take all those billions of dollars from the Americans and the Chinese to make weapons? Then what?

At this point in time, even if it did work. I don't think India has that kind of spine at the moment.

Keshav,

you do understand that India's defence expenditure is 5 to 6 times more than Pakistan, so unless Uncle Amirkhan is going to be paying $20 billion /yr, uncle can't bridge the gap.

Keshav · Post by **Keshav** » 03 Jun 2009 04:31

Dipanker wrote:you do understand that India's defence expenditure is 5 to 6 times more than Pakistan, so unless Uncle Amirkhan is going to be paying $20 billion /yr, uncle can't bridge the gap.

If Obama is gearing up for the long haul in Pakistan/Afghanistan rather than Iraq, I really wouldn't put it past them.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 03 Jun 2009 04:35

Can anybody explain why do Pukis keep pestering India to talk when they should know that India will never give them Kashmir on a platter or otherwise.

India needs to find a way to disabuse the Pukis of the notion that that if they commit terrorism India will talk.

Only way to do that is if they kill 10 indians, India need to kill 100 Pakistanis.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 03 Jun 2009 04:36

Keshav wrote:
Dipanker wrote:you do understand that India's defence expenditure is 5 to 6 times more than Pakistan, so unless Uncle Amirkhan is going to be paying $20 billion /yr, uncle can't bridge the gap.
If Obama is gearing up for the long haul in Pakistan/Afghanistan rather than Iraq, I really wouldn't put it past them.

So they will start giving the Pakistanis $25 biilion /yr ?

James B · Post by **James B** » 03 Jun 2009 04:38

Time for Peace in Kashmir - Mansoor Ijaz

India defeated Pakistan twice in two wars. Pakistanis have watched India rise to regional superpower status economically, politically and militarily. In many ways, India's success fostered Pakistan's radicalization. Rather than confront its self-created demons at home, Pakistan first blusters and then begs the world to save it (much like a fart ).

Then come lahori logic

In India, the task falls to the newly mandated Mr. Singh, whose calibrated approach prevented hyperbolic reactions against Pakistan in the aftermath of Mumbai. His party won 20 of 25 seats in the state of Rajasthan that shares the longest border with Pakistan. And it won 5 out of the 6 seats contested in Kashmir. He is therefore strong enough politically in key border states to take the risk.

So, whoever wins Kashmir they are free to gift it to Pakis.

For its part, as a show of good faith, Pakistan should close the Mumbai wound by sending the Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists to stand trial in New Delhi.

Pakis being faithfool have wide opened the mumbai wounds by releasing the scumpig Hafeez Saeed.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 03 Jun 2009 04:44

Baljeet wrote: 1. India Supported LTTE, we ended up sucking wind

Not that I am applauding the demise of Rajiv Gandhi or anything, but in terms of "blowback", an assasination of an ex-PM, and the loss of 300-400 IPKF, is pretty small compared to 911 (and the attendant ill-advised war in Iraq, 8000-9000 Americans killed, the neglect of the economy, and the blackmail by the Pakis ad infinitum), or a potential breakup of the Pukes, or the demise of the FSU. Of-course, the potential advantage of supporting the LTTE was also rather small in comparison to "defeating communism" or "milking the west for baksheesh". Of-course, if the LTTE has been instrumental in creating other security worries for India in the form of naxalites, NE states etc, then the blowback has been more. Otherwise, we probably should resist from the equal-equal assumption for blowbacks

.

archan · Post by **archan** » 03 Jun 2009 05:16

raghunath wrote: Pakis being faithfool have wide opened the mumbai wounds by releasing the scumpig Hafeez Saeed.

Hey wait!! there seems to be more to it. Looks like they want to play this drama a little longer.
Pak authorities to move SC against Saeed's release by LHC

Pakistani authorities on Tuesday said they planned to move the Supreme Court against the Lahore High Court's order to release JuD chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, who was placed under house arrest in the wake of Mumbai attacks. Rana Sanaullah, the Law Minister of Punjab province, indicated a review petition would be filed in the Supreme Court against the Lahore High Court's decision to free Saeed and his close aide Col (retd) Nazir Ahmed. Sanaullah told reporters that the government respected the High Court's decision but it had to move the apex court against orders which create problems for the country internationally.

James B · Post by **James B** » 03 Jun 2009 05:56

China asks Pakistan to uproot militants

China has asked Pakistan to use all its resources to uproot the militant organisation ‘East Turkistan Islamic Movement’ from the country.

According to BBC, Chinese President Hu Jintao has sent this message through diplomatic channels to President Asif Ali Zardari. Hu also asked the president to step up the security of Chinese nationals working or living in Pakistan.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Jun 2009 06:05

raghunath wrote:Time for Peace in Kashmir - Mansoor Ijaz

Same crap, new bottle. Whatever happened to that peace bus across the LoC which was opened with all fanfar a few years back. These proposals are no different. I am sure MMS will be agreeable to the Monsoo Ijaz Lahor logic, but any 'solution' that calls for dilution of India's soverignty over Kashmir is a non starter. Kashmiris have had enough self determination through the many elections. What more do they want?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jun 2009 06:11

Dipanker wrote:
you do understand that India's defence expenditure is 5 to 6 times more than Pakistan, so unless Uncle Amirkhan is going to be paying $20 billion /yr, uncle can't bridge the gap.

In fact the US need not do that. All it needs to do is a well timed injection of arms into Pakistan.

Sending in 24 F-16s, 1000 AMRAAMs, 500 Harpoons and sharing intel info from US satellites would help inflict enough pain on India in a war to put warlike thoughts further out of Indian minds.

I think that anyone who is not fully convinced that the US wants to play its own game in its own way needs to understand that every country uses intel assets to achieve goals. If India wants to attack Pakistan in any way all preparations have to be hidden not just from Pakistani eyes but US eyes as well. the US knows India will be doing that and will be watching India very closely. This whole 'cold start" business is to finger the US as much as Pakistan.

Wars are intel dependent. The Longewala battle is a classic case in point. The presence of Paki armor across the border from Longewala was missed/ignored. When the Pakistani attack came there were insufficient Indian ground forces to check the assault. But the timely use of air power tilted the balance in India's favor.

Imagine a situation in which things are hotting up after a terror attack. The US informs Pakistan of the whereabouts of Viraat and Pakistan sends two subs that box the Viraat in. India initiates a thrust into Pakistan and is getting ready to start another thrust in another area when US intel info is passed to Pakistan which is able to fire missiles and conduct airstrikes on an Indian armored build up, while US AWACS assets are used to "blind" Indian radar.

This is exactly the sort of behavior that the US (and its allies) have resorted to in various wars.India's ultimate aim will have to be to hold Pakistan and help bring the US down. There is no other go. It is a dog eat dog world and anyone who expects anything good from the US is either mistaken or is not a nationalist

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Jun 2009 06:25

Shiv:

Good points. But it is amazing how much reality, i.e. US actions, differs from used car salesman talk about India US strategic relations, glide path and other BS. And this is not ponited out or discussed forcefully in India US public discourse.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 Jun 2009 06:27

CRamS wrote:Time for Peace in Kashmir - Mansoor Ijaz

Same crap, new bottle. Whatever happened to that peace bus across the LoC which was opened with all fanfar a few years back. These proposals are no different. I am sure MMS will be agreeable to the Monsoo Ijaz Lahor logic, but any 'solution' that calls for dilution of India's soverignty over Kashmir is a non starter. Kashmiris have had enough self determination through the many elections. What more do they want?

variation of "you are big brother only, time to make sacrifices for little brother please please please" theme aka gujral doctrine.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Jun 2009 06:40

raghunath wrote:Time for Peace in Kashmir - Mansoor Ijaz

In many ways, India's success fostered Pakistan's radicalization.

How come you missed this gem? Ijaz seems to be saying "We are what we are because who you are".

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Jun 2009 06:50

Sikhs & others sccumb to militants Jazia demand

By others, they mean "Hindus".

LANDIKOTAL: The non-Muslim communities — including Sikhs, Hindus and Christians living in Khyber Agency — have agreed to pay tax to the Bara-based Lashkar-e-Islam (LI) in exchange for ensuring their security in the area.

The sources said the warning came from LI two days back following which the community agreed to pay the tax instead of leaving the area, where they are living for decades.

Yeah, right! Try several millennia.

Under the decision, only women, children and handicapped persons had been exempted from paying the tax, while other members of the communities would be bound to pay Rs1,000 per head annually.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 03 Jun 2009 06:56

KV Rao wrote:
CRamS wrote:Time for Peace in Kashmir - Mansoor Ijaz

One of the rabid comments there is by a "moin ansari" - the editor of rupeenews.
I suspect "abdul ruff" is the same person.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Jun 2009 07:01

^^^ anupmisra-ji,

Please desist from bringing Hindus into the discussion and make this
thread communal.

on second thought - I dont care...

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Jun 2009 07:29

raghunath wrote:Time for Peace in Kashmir - Mansoor Ijaz

I just cannot see peace in Kashmir with Pakistan being around.

Anyhow, we now have Obama dictating a few moves within India without mentioning "Kashmir": Between Delhi and D.C. (June 8, 2009):

The U.S. Congress recently announced plans to jump-start the Indian-Pakistani peace process by helping to resolve the Kashmir dispute. Washington's proposal? Sens. John Kerry and Richard Lugar, authors of a new bill providing economic and military assistance to Pakistan, want to push New Delhi to reduce its troop presence in Kashmir as a way of assuaging Islamabad's fears about India's intentions.

No longer "along the border".

Of course, as a reminder, the US has NO special envoy for Kashmir.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Jun 2009 08:23

It's Shrill Time
Is she on drugs or something?

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 03 Jun 2009 08:26

Unforgivable! - Edit from Daily whines

The details are unnerving. The Razmak college cadets had to leave after the college principal decided it was too dangerous to carry on teaching. About 33 vehicles started off from Razmak, with cadets, teaching staff and their families. The officials who oversaw this operation were duped by the Taliban. The caravan of vehicles was sent off “in accordance with an agreement with the government, local militants affiliated with warlord Gul Bahadur in Miranshah, the headquarters of North Waziristan”. The local Taliban under Gul Bahadur escorted the caravan along with khasadars of the government levy. As the convoy was about to enter Bannu, it was ambushed, the khasadars pushed away, and the cadets captured and taken to Bakkakhel area in North Waziristan.

This is the first grievous consequence of a system of condominium (joint rule) in the FR areas of the NWFP. Since long, Bannu and Kohat are being ruled jointly by the government — or whatever is left of it — and the various warlords of the Taliban. Hangu is another place where the administration belongs to the NWFP government but sovereignty and power rest with the Taliban groups hovering near the city limits. There are “influential” persons in these areas that arrange “communication” between the two sides but are actually conduits of the terrorists for passing on their orders. One such “influential” person of Kohat was present as a go-between when the Lal Masjid operation was undertaken in Islamabad in 2007.

The officials in Bannu said they knew who had done the deed and boasted of having the capacity to make Gul Bahadur release the kidnapped cadets. They knew that the warlord from North Waziristan had influence in and around Bannu. They think he kidnapped the cadets while his men were guarding the convoys. But they also knew that although Gul Bahadur was not affiliated with Baitullah Mehsud “the three warlords — Baitullah Mehsud, Maulvi Nazir in South Waziristan and Hafiz Gul Bahadur in North Waziristan — had forged an alliance to help each other in the event of a military operation”.

Clearly, the local administration failed to take into account the new developments in the FATA configuration of Taliban power after the decision by Islamabad to extend military operations to South Waziristan. It ignored the fact that the college principal had ruled “teaching” too dangerous, clearly indicating lack of trust in the “arrangement’ with Gul Bahadur. It knew that the three above-mentioned warlords had decided to bury their hatchets and come together to face up to the emerging situation. Non-application of this knowledge to actual strategy came from the conditions of condominium prevailing in a region that contains cantonments and an air force base in Kohat. The Taliban, despite “arrangements” with cooperative bureaucrats, have regularly burnt schools in the region and kidnapped people for money, and targeted the Shia community.

Razmak College, a well-known institution that facilitates the entry of youth from the tribal areas into our armed forces, has narrowly escaped disaster. The cadets are justified in asking that the college be shifted, but it is the national obligation of the state to “shift” the Taliban from the area instead. *

Baljeet · Post by **Baljeet** » 03 Jun 2009 08:30

anupmisra wrote:It's Shrill Time
Is she on drugs or something?

Anup
She is not on drugs. She is the whore and her crony zaid hamid has hernia.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Jun 2009 08:33

Baljeet wrote:
anupmisra wrote:It's Shrill Time
Is she on drugs or something?
her crony zaid hamid has hernia.

She actually works for Imran Khan,

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Jun 2009 08:45

Excerpt of what Pakistan’s High Commissioner to the UK, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, had to say to CNN-IBN on the release of Hafiz Saeed.

M.K.Bhadra Kumar was also a part of the programme:

Pak in denial when it comes to fighting terror

Published on Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 01:13 ………..:

CNN IBN: Mr Hasan for an organisation that's banned by the United Nations and its chief is accused of being one of the main perpetrators of 26/11 as well as of other crimes, for that man to go free today, how does the government of Pakistan explain this? How can India and the world really believe the commitment Pakistan has given to bringing 26/11 perpetrators to justice after this?

Wajid Shamsul Hasan:The government of Pakistan has nothing to do with him. They arrested him and kept him for almost six months under detention and under the terrorism law of Pakistan you can only keep a person under detention of 90 days unless you have produced any evidence against them. Unfortunately no such evidence was produced against Hafez Saeed so he was released by the court.

CNN IBN:You are hoping that the matter will go to the Supreme Court but Mr Hasan, will that happen? Because as you see, there is a pattern. There is pressure put on Pakistan, you put people under house arrest - whether it's Masood Azhar, whether it's Hafiz Saeed - charge them and then allow them to quietly go free once the pressure, the heat is turned off Pakistan. That's the pattern seen in case after case.

Wajid Shamsul Hasan: We have already proved our case by saying that we did arrest him, we did charge him, we did put him behind bars for almost six months and you know for six months no evidence could be produced and again I repeat that we were expecting that India will provide us with enough evidence against him. To say that somebody is involved in something and he is not, then it is very difficult for the court. The court will go on the merit of the case.

CNN-IBN

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 03 Jun 2009 08:58

Time for Peace in Kashmir - Mansoor Ijaz

After a long time (no see) our FOX man terrorism expert, diplomatic expert, South Asian expert you name he morphed it expert Mansore Ijaz is back on the sirkit (circuit). Nice.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jun 2009 09:08

Mansur Ijaz says:

Most of all, India must change its mindset about Kashmir from militaristic control over a cowering people to economic empowerment that motivates them to rise up and determine their own futures. India must make the Kashmiris -- all Kashmiris -- partners for peace. Self-determination is the key platform on which Pakistan has always summoned its national dignity in support of the Kashmiri cause. No matter what that decision by Kashmiris turns out to be (and it would likely be to stay with India) and no matter how long it takes them to get there, self-determination is the skirt behind which Pakistan's army - and its people - could withdraw in dignity and with honor. This was the essence of the plan in 2000 that nearly succeeded.

India's election results give it the political strength to offer such a plan. Pakistan's myriad problems demand that it accept any reasonable offer at the table. The moment to secure durable peace in Kashmir is now.

In other words - You are strong, therefore "Allah ke naam pe H&D de de baba"

Pakis need to understand that after fighting for 60plus years ant not winning, handing even a minor victory to Pakistan would mean agreeing to some other dispute that Pakistan could raise for another 60 years.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Jun 2009 09:17

But, ultimately it all boils down to Kashmir (or better still, Jammu and Kashmir). The paki mindset is: all roads of redemption, moksha, peace, prosperity, self-respect, secularism.... lead to and originate from Kashmir. All their problems can be linkd to Kashmir. So, once that "K" issue is resolved (in paki favor, of course) then there will be an unending era of bhai chara, peace and aman, and the two nations will live like brothers for ever.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Jun 2009 09:24

Man-Soor Mian ji,

arre Bhai, Poore Pakistan ko Kahshmir bana diya , abb oor kiya maange !!

Paki being sons of Arabs and Persians should go back to their ancestral land and vacate Indic territories.Indians have no reason to oblidge Paki whims. Wont we rather see Paki getting cooked in their own juices ? For 60 years of hardship to endure Paki smell, indian deserve to see Pakistan going down the toilet , please dont dprive us from this little fun as I have just learned to make variety of Mojito drink onlee for this special upcoming good occasion .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Jun 2009 10:06

vsudhir wrote:Simple pooch onlee.

Why hasn't TSP tried another Mumbai yet? Just wondering?
They can always blame it on 'non-state-actors' and get away with it. No?
And the piss process is anyway stuck and going nowhere.

Nightwatch commenting on the Hafeez Saeed release wrties

Comment: Indian relations with Pakistan went into a deep freeze today. Advocates of restraint to allow legal processes time to work have suffered a serious loss of credibility. Advocates of swift punishing retaliation against Pakistan who were blocked last year have grown in stature.

This is the second time this decade that Pakistan-based terrorists, whom Indian analysts argue were trained with the help of Pakistani intelligence, have committed a major attack in India with impunity. The other attack was against the Indian Parliament in December 2001.

The Indians consider the Mumbai attacks their equivalent of the US 9/11 attack. Indian nationalism will require military retaliation in the event of a third atrocity. Another attack is a virtual certainty, only a matter of timing and opportunity, because Pakistan has taken no serious action to destroy the Lashkar e Tayyiba (LeT) and JD terrorists who were involved in the attacks.

So maybe the seculars will arrest the Indian nationalists in interests of piss? looks like outsiders also know the dynamics.

I will bet nothing will happen to third atrocity. A whole bunch of hand wringing and bleatings will happen with more threads of BRF. And BRaman who gets his news from here will write more tripe.

amol.p · Post by **amol.p** » 03 Jun 2009 10:44

Nato terminal attacked in Balochistan, 2 killed

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Worl ... 610524.cms

ISLAMABAD: Two people were killed and three others injured on Tuesday when dozens of militants attacked a terminal in Pakistan’s Balochistan
province used by convoys ferrying supplies to Nato forces in Afghanistan.

Seven vehicles were destroyed in an early morning attack on the terminal in Chaman city, located near the border with Afghanistan.

Sardar Hasan Musakhel, police chief of Qila Abdullah district, said the militants who carried out the attack were armed with sophisticated weapons.

The attackers shot dead a guard at the terminal and a police constable at a nearby check post.

They looted five assault rifles and some wireless sets after killing the constable. The militants fled the scene after a brief shootout with police...............

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 03 Jun 2009 10:49

shiv wrote:Mansur Ijaz says:
Most of all, India must change its mindset...from militaristic control over a cowering people to economic empowerment that motivates them to rise up and determine their own futures.....Self-determination is the key platform on which Pakistan has always summoned its national dignity...

Mansur Ijaz should immediately be tasked with handling Balochistan and Pashtoonistan. I am sure his principles and expertise are direly needed to solve these problems.

amol.p · Post by **amol.p** » 03 Jun 2009 10:52

From massa land--------Anti-war protester shoots new recruits

TWO soldiers have been shot, one fatally, outside a military recruiting centre in Arkansas by a gunman who police said was opposed to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Police said the suspect, Abdulhakim Muhammad, who also has used the name Carlos Bledsoe, drove up to an Army-Navy recruiting station and opened fire with an assault rifle, firing more than a dozen rounds into the building.

Police said a local detective later pulled over Mr Muhammad's car on the freeway, where he surrendered without incident.
Inside the vehicle, police said they found a small arsenal of weapons, including an assault rifle, a .22 calibre rifle, a .380 calibre automatic pistol and ammunition.----{seems fresh trainee back from Af-Pak}

He said officials are looking into whether Mr Muhammad had a "religious disagreement'' with the US military missions in Iraq and Afghanistan

http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1102599284833& ... -EI53ZCYQ=

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 11:21

Meanwhile, the other Dr. Manzur Ejaz says

Another positive for Pakistan is that neither its neighbours nor the big powers have any interest in breaking up the country. India knows fully well that a stable and prosperous Pakistan is better suited to its interests than a fragmented and unstable Pakistan. Further, the Indian economy also sees potential benefit from a prosperous Pakistani market.

Similarly, Iran will do its best to stop trouble in Balochistan because that could trigger a similar separatist movement in the Iranian province of Sistan-Baluchistan.

The major world powers also have nothing to gain from the disintegration of Pakistan. Furthermore, the balance of world power is being reconfigured as the power of the US declines and China rises. The Chinese have already made a long-term investment in the construction of Gwadar Port to reach the Arabian Sea. Therefore, even if someone tries to threaten the unity of Pakistan, China will fully support its long-term ally to safeguard its own interests.

Therefore an examination of internal and external factors indicates that Pakistan’s disintegration is an extremely unlikely possibility. Pakistan may take ten to fifteen years to fully overcome religious insurgency, but eventually, the state of Pakistan will prevail. Sri Lanka took more than two decades to suppress Tamil separatists and prevailed. The Pakistani state, with its powerful institutions and military, can get the job done in the northwest in a much shorter period.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 03 Jun 2009 13:32

The title should be: "Paki obsession with conversion trumps everything else"

Merciful storekeeper changes robber's mind, religion

He made the man promise never to rob anyone again and when he agreed, Sohail gave him $40 and a loaf of bread. "When he gets $40, he's very impressed, he says, 'I want to be a Muslim just like you,' " Sohail said, adding he had the would-be criminal recite an Islamic oath. "I said 'Congratulations. You are now a Muslim and your name is Nawaz Sharif Zardari.'" When asked why he chose the hybrid of two Pakistani presidents' names, the Pakistani immigrant laughed and said he had been watching a South Asian news channel moments before the confrontation.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/02/new ... index.html

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Jun 2009 13:54

Open interference by the US in Pakistan

Holbrooke says,

The chiefs of Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) and Pakistan Muslim League (PML-N) have agreed to end 17th amendment, adding there is no difference of opinion between Nawaz Sharif and Asif Ali Zardari on the issue.

Also, the same report talks about four more MI-17 helicopters, NVGs etc. The US continues to give arms and funds incrementally and almsot every day, rather then giving them in large chunks in one go. Are these aids against the 'benchmarks' that the new policy framework has set or is this a clever strategy so that it doesn't invite attention ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Jun 2009 14:04

One can expect nothing better from Pak.As many Indian MEA and military experts have said on TV yesterday,Pak only acts when pressure is applied to it.As long as the military rule te roost in Pak,they will never gvie up their hatred of India and use their proxy pigs to harm us.China's call for Pak to arrest terrorists is only about Pak taking action against those who are enemies of China.They are part of the sinister plan to destabilise India through Pak's proxy war.

Not too long ago our dear former FM,Pranab declared a famous diplomatic victory over Pak over 26/11.Where is his great victory now? He and the UPA govt. have been well and truly "shafted" in the nether region,as we used to say in university and MMS will have to adopt a strong hard line policy towards Pak and also tell the US off as it continues to reward Pak for its duplicity with aid and arms.

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Jun 2009 14:26

IMO, India has one vital leverage over the baki land, H20(water). We should inflict water terrorism(or the threat) of it on bakis. I mean, just like pukes threaten to nuke India at the slightest provocation, we need to threaten to stop the water at the slightest provocation.

AbhishekD · Post by **AbhishekD** » 03 Jun 2009 15:22

Shiv says

In fact the US need not do that. All it needs to do is a well timed injection of arms into Pakistan.

Sending in 24 F-16s, 1000 AMRAAMs, 500 Harpoons and sharing intel info from US satellites would help inflict enough pain on India in a war to put warlike thoughts further out of Indian minds.

I think that anyone who is not fully convinced that the US wants to play its own game in its own way needs to understand that every country uses intel assets to achieve goals. If India wants to attack Pakistan in any way all preparations have to be hidden not just from Pakistani eyes but US eyes as well. the US knows India will be doing that and will be watching India very closely. This whole 'cold start" business is to finger the US as much as Pakistan.

Wars are intel dependent. The Longewala battle is a classic case in point. The presence of Paki armor across the border from Longewala was missed/ignored. When the Pakistani attack came there were insufficient Indian ground forces to check the assault. But the timely use of air power tilted the balance in India's favor.

Imagine a situation in which things are hotting up after a terror attack. The US informs Pakistan of the whereabouts of Viraat and Pakistan sends two subs that box the Viraat in. India initiates a thrust into Pakistan and is getting ready to start another thrust in another area when US intel info is passed to Pakistan which is able to fire missiles and conduct airstrikes on an Indian armored build up, while US AWACS assets are used to "blind" Indian radar.

This is exactly the sort of behavior that the US (and its allies) have resorted to in various wars.India's ultimate aim will have to be to hold Pakistan and help bring the US down. There is no other go. It is a dog eat dog world and anyone who expects anything good from the US is either mistaken or is not a nationalist

US will do what it does best. That is sabotage. But Pakistani attack will never be superior than Indian attack. Until US uses its own personnel against Indian attack nothing is going to matter. India should build inordinate level of conventional superiority and then call pakistan's nuclear bluff by attacking them where it hurts the most.

I dont think the issue is about military victory. India can deliver a decisive military blow to Pakistan when it decides to do that. The simple thing is that India does not consider these terrorist strikes threatening enough to initiate a full blown military strike. Indian politician and public is not ready to pay the price for that attack. Imagine a situation in which India decides to conduct a major air strike across all targets within Pakistan. India will be able to do that, but there will be a pakistani counter strike with Land Based Missiles, cruise missile, fighter planes with damage to several Indian military installations and major indian cities. The economy may go into tailspin and Indian diplomacy may go for a six. We are not ready to pay that price and the benefit of such a strike is not known. We dont know whether such a strike will be able to reduce the actual threat of terrorism. Indeed it may turn out to be counter productive. This is a classic cat and mouse game. India is playing the game such that it can reduce its losses. We have had 2 major terrorist strikes in last 7 years and probably few more in coming decade, but it will not change the basic thinking within the Indian Political spectrum

What the Indian security establishment will do is that it will reduce the big terrorist strikes and probably try to disrupt these terrorist plots. We may not be successful all the time and hence few terrorist strikes in time to time. This is the thinking within the Indian security establishment and this is very clear. What the Indian security establishment wants is to inflict pain on pakistan without blow-back. Something that is never going to happen. India cannot have its cake and eat it also. It has to confront this challenge sometime in future. India is not ready for such a challenge yet

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 03 Jun 2009 15:35

Abhishek,
you are right. And I agree with that kind of thinking. Becoz IMO, the pakis are not bluffing about nukes, if they really have them in their control and if they work, then they will most certainly use them and that wont even be the last defence resort for them.
So, the question: are we ready to take a nuke attack, are we ready to even risk it? IMO, not just the politicians but even the ppl on street are not ready for it. So, instead we need to concentrate on other aspects of it. Pakis are using the porous borders of BD and Nepal to pump in the pigs, we need to use our leverage over these two tiny nations to stop them from passively or directly supporting the paki plans. If we cant take on the beast itself, atleast we should be able to take on its cronies. We should try and cleanse all sleeper cells within India. This is actually not as difficult as it seems, most of these cells reside in popular muslim ghettos like old city of Hyd. Once the intel monitors these places with some local spys, these sleeping pigs can be caught, once some are caught the network can be smoked out. But there is always some political scum( from the highest offices) quick to resort to appeasement tactics.

Once, we deal with all our internal security probs and only external angle is left to be dealt, that would be the right time to take on aar ya paar ki laadai. That would mean, finishing the naxalites, politically weakening the left, controlling the EJs...etc. But if we say that these cant be done without first dealing with external angle than we fall into the trap.