Tracking Errors in Defence reporting

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 15 May 2009 18:58

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=10809

MiG 27 news with a pic of Jaguars. Really shoddy work.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 15 May 2009 20:22

Cross post

shameekg wrote:Very unfortunate. I am sure the media is rubbing their hands at the prospect of pointing fingers at the IAF again. I have noticed how the reports begin with "Yet another.... crashes". That in itself tarnishes the image of the IAF in the eyes of the common public.

This is an astute observation. It indicates a mindset that thinks that there are buffoons and incompetents about whom the journalist has a right to make comments. And that itsel;f serves as an excuse for Indians journalists to be completely ignorant.

And why not. They get paid whether they know anything or not. Anyhow that is what this thread is here to highlight. With respect to the five knowledgeable defence journalists I know of.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 19 May 2009 11:55

b_karan wrote:India on Tuesday successfully test-fired its nuclear-capable 'Agni-II' missile with a strike range of upto 3,000 kms from a launch pad off Orissa's coast.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/india ... le/462371/

That article is accompanied by a glorious picture of Agni III

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 May 2009 18:18

Most defence related reports in India are totally blatant and shameless in their inaccuracy. Accountability does not exist, it appears.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 20 May 2009 01:09

The story about INS Airavat, the new LST Ship has this quote by a naval officer :
""The Indian Navy would build 32 warships and six submarines using indigenous technology by the year 2012," Adm. Mehta told reporters on the occasion."

Is the date actually 2012 or 2022?

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 24 May 2009 18:20

X Posting Shiv's comment from the Missile thread about the 'Smearch'.

India successfully tests Russia made 'Smearch'

There is some interesting new information about the "Smearch"

Hemant Kumar Rout
First Published : 19 Dec 2008 09:48:00 AM

The 300-mm ‘Smearch’ projectiles are fitted with solid fuel engines. Rockets are 7.6 m in length and 800 kg in weight. Weight of warhead is 280 kg. Warhead can be simple or cluster.
‘‘It also has the capability of launching surface to surface and surface to air missiles. The system can be integrated with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) to provide a new dimension to artillery defence system,’’ he added.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 May 2009 07:05

cross post

NRao wrote:
A Sharma wrote:IAF drops Russia from $1 bn deal
IAF did not drop Russia, it selected a better product that was from Europe!!!

IF the EADS product is better, why do these yahoo DDMs drag unrelated issues into the picture and make a mess out of a topic? IAF is still going with FGFA, perhaps he forgot that or better still is not aware of it.

This piece is not a mere report but is a political commentary by Rahul Singh on what he thinks is the state of India Russia defence relations.

I have seen debates about whether a "news portal" should merely report news, or use a news item to pass judgement or write a commentary showing one side or many sides of a debate. Rahul Singh is a senior enough correspondent to put in his own commentary and have it passed by the editor.

By doing this the Hindustan Times is placing itself on one side of a political debate by saying that India's action is leading to the loss of a billion dollars for Russia. It ignores the fact that the billion dollars is coming from India and India has to choose how to spend its billion before highlighting and lamenting Russia's loss.

I think BRF as a forum is gradually veering towards awareness of nuances of reporting by various sources and individual reporters. Maybe this item could do with a cross post into the tracking the media thread.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 27 May 2009 02:32

Sukhois Resume Flying

Another gem from our friends. The crash occured on April 30. The report is dated May 25. The headline says they resume flying after a month. And the report says:

The IAF grounded its fleet of approximately 55 Russian-origin Su-30s after one of the aircraft crashed last week.

Does anybody ever read these things!

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 27 May 2009 05:09

Another one.

Sukhois in Tezpur

A source said the Su-30MKI is likely to be fitted with air-to-ground Brahmos missile with more than 900 combat radius enabling it to strike all major cities in southwest China.

What does the above sentence even mean?

dipayan · Post by **dipayan** » 27 May 2009 05:30

shameekg wrote:Another one.

Sukhois in Tezpur

A source said the Su-30MKI is likely to be fitted with air-to-ground Brahmos missile with more than 900 combat radius enabling it to strike all major cities in southwest China.
What does the above sentence even mean?

well i guess its trying to say that the MKI has a combat radius of 900km which when combined with the Brahmos would give it the range to strike the above mentioned cities in China...at least thats what it seems to says

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 27 May 2009 05:33

shameekg wrote:Another one.

Sukhois in Tezpur

A source said the Su-30MKI is likely to be fitted with air-to-ground Brahmos missile with more than 900 combat radius enabling it to strike all major cities in southwest China.
What does the above sentence even mean?

The same article says the Tezpur airbase is:

"Spread over 21 acre, the Tezpur airbase was put under repair after the MiG-21s were shifted to Chabua."

I did not realize IAF airbases are so small!

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 27 May 2009 07:17

dipayan wrote:well i guess its trying to say that the MKI has a combat radius of 900km which when combined with the Brahmos would give it the range to strike the above mentioned cities in China...at least thats what it seems to say

You know that and hence can make the assumption. I am a common man reading the news. To me it means it will be fitted with a Brahmos missile which has a range of 900 something (it does not say km). A lot of people do not know what combat radius is.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 27 May 2009 12:30

VinodTK wrote: The same article says the Tezpur airbase is:
"Spread over 21 acre, the Tezpur airbase was put under repair after the MiG-21s were shifted to Chabua."
I did not realize IAF airbases are so small!

Yes that caught my eye too. Delhi College of Engineering has an area of 178 acres, most of the malls would be bigger than 21 acre. I wonder whether they can even park a squadron of MKIs within that space.

Cheers....

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 May 2009 14:27

VinodTK wrote:
"Spread over 21 acre, the Tezpur airbase was put under repair after the MiG-21s were shifted to Chabua."
I did not realize IAF airbases are so small!

Well I checked on Google earth and found that Tezpur does occupy all of 21 acres in one part. An extension from that part occupies a further 500 arcres.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 27 May 2009 17:44

@dipayan: Check the Su-30 thread to see the confusion that report has caused even among BRF members.

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 27 May 2009 21:15

TOI Article

The RfP for the 22 combat helicopters had actually been released just before the Berlin Air Show in May 2008 to six contenders, Sikorsky for Black Hawk, Boeing for Apache AH 64D, Bell for Super Cobra (all three from US), Eurocopter for Tiger, Russian Mil for Mi 35, and Augusta Westland for Mangusta.

this is clearly for attack helis

SIKORSKY BLACK HAWK
The Sikorsky S-67 Blackhawk was a private-venture, prototype attack helicopter built in 1970

TOI BUFFOONS AGAIN......

ovein · Post by **ovein** » 27 May 2009 22:02

i saw a TOI article couple of days back

IAF's first AWACS arrives from Israel, induction on Thursday
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 75710.cmsv

"With the induction of the AWACS, India will join a club of only six other nations - the US, Russia, Britain, Japan, Australia and Turkey - that operate such a sophisticated system. Other countries - notably Pakistan, Brazil and Greece - too operate AWACS but at a much lower end of the scale in terms of capability. "

Now there is no mention of the Isreal himself (operates 3) in this para. Plus i thought Chile already has it.

The defense section of the TOI is incresingly getting unreliable.

dipayan · Post by **dipayan** » 27 May 2009 23:11

SivaVijay wrote:TOI Article

The RfP for the 22 combat helicopters had actually been released just before the Berlin Air Show in May 2008 to six contenders, Sikorsky for Black Hawk, Boeing for Apache AH 64D, Bell for Super Cobra (all three from US), Eurocopter for Tiger, Russian Mil for Mi 35, and Augusta Westland for Mangusta.
this is clearly for attack helis

SIKORSKY BLACK HAWK
The Sikorsky S-67 Blackhawk was a private-venture, prototype attack helicopter built in 1970

TOI BUFFOONS AGAIN......

They are probably referring to the UH-60 Blackhawk. But its still not an attack helicopter, so doesn't make sense

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 02 Jun 2009 09:06

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=10866

Typo makes the Su-30 a Su 320. Also should'nt the I in MKI always be in capital considering it stands for the name of our country?

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 03 Jun 2009 01:05

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=10867

The academy is expected to train around 400 helicopters, and generate Rs80 crore, every year.

Probably meant 400 pilots.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 13 Jun 2009 04:19

X Posting from Raja Bose's post on the IAF history thread:

Finally DDM latches on to Tufail's blog and messes it up as usual:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/as-sp ... ne/475330/

Contrary to the Indian view that he was shot down , Tufail claims that Flt Lt Nachiketa’s MiG-27 went down due to engine trouble “caused by gas ingestion during high altitude strafing.”

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 15 Jun 2009 05:06

US P8I aircraft at INS Rajali soon

ARAKKONAM: The P8I Orion, a next generation maritime surveillance aircraft will soon be part of the INS Rajali, a premier naval air station located at Arakkonam in Tamil Nadu.

The P8 is called the Poseidon. The P3 is the Orion.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 15 Jun 2009 19:33

IAF plans for 100 combat missiles for Jaguar

Firstly the title should say 'close combat' instead of combat.

We have not yet gone through the details of the Indian requirements but we can offer our AIM-9X and AMRAAM for close range combat requirements," Carroll said. The Israelis are expected to offer the Derb-5 missile in the contract.

The AMRAAM is not a close combat missile and cannot be an option to the AIM-9X. Maybe they meant ASRAAM.
There is no missile called Derb-5. Its either Python-5 or Derby. The Python-5 is a short range missile and the Derby is a medium range missile.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 18 Jun 2009 19:22

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 671279.cms

"The pilot reported the technical error to the airbase and later jettisoned the aircraft," an IAF source added.

Jettisoned the aircraft? From what?

The MiG-21 crash on Thursday is the sixth mishap this year. The IAF had lost a Kiran MK-II trainer aircraft of its Surya Kiran aerobatics team on Januray 21, a Sukhoi on April 30, a MiG-27 on May 15, a MiG-21 Byson on May 27, and an AN-32 on June 9.

Its MiG 21 Bison.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 20 Jun 2009 02:18

Russian aircraft violates Indian airspace

MUMBAI: A Russian military cargo aircraft AN-24 on Friday night intruded into Indian airspace from Pakistan and landed at the international airport out.

The aircraft is probably an AN-124. And why does the sentence end with out?

yossarian · Post by **yossarian** » 20 Jun 2009 02:36

There have been conflicting reports in the media about the US-Russian Plane.

TOI indicates it was a US hired russian plane.

CNN-IBN indicates it was a private plane.

No one is sure if IAF jets were scrambled.

Just wanted know whats the protocol and response time in such scenarios? And what is the criteria to choose the airport (in this case a busy crowded airport) to force land?

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 23 Jun 2009 01:45

^^ I may be wrong, but they would rather not land a suspicious aircraft at a military base. That may be why Mumbai was chosen. But then thats a discussion for a different thread.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 24 Jun 2009 09:40

Smerch, Pinaka tested

The indigenous Pinaka can neutralise a target area of 350 sq km and is meant to supplement the existing artillery system at a range beyond 30 km.

Its about 3.9 sq km.

The Russian Smearch MLRS is the most powerful and the perfect in the world. It is intended to defeat live power, destroy armoured vehicles, fortifications and command centres in 20-70-km range. “Smearch launch vehicle can fire 12 rockets at a time. It is able to fire single rockets, or salvo from two to all 12 rockets. Full salvo lasts 38 seconds. While the diameter of the launcher is about 300 mm, the rocket’s diameter is 214 mm,”

Its 'Smerch' and not 'Smearch'. Also the rocket is 300mm and not 214mm. And what does 'perfect in the world' mean?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jun 2009 09:48

shameekg wrote: Its 'Smerch' and not 'Smearch'. Also the rocket is 300mm and not 214mm. And what does 'perfect in the world' mean?

Rout consistently spells it as "Smearch" - there was an earlier report from him that used this spelling. He needs to serch for the rite speling.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 24 Jun 2009 09:52

^^

I agree. A little time spent on Google would do wonders.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Jul 2009 21:59

Finally our pet peeve is being addressed;

Gen. Kapoor inaugurates course on defence journalism

Gen Kapoor inaugurates course on defence journalism
Hisar (PTI): Chief of Army staff General Deepak Kapoor on Wednesday said there were very few "trained" journalists with the skill, knowledge and experience necessary to report on defence and national security matters.

"With dissimilar types of international conflicts continuing to occur at an alarming rate in many countries, news organizations require journalists trained in the complex areas of defence and national security", General Kapoor said while inaugurating a new course on defence journalism at Guru Jambheshwar University of Science and Technology here.

The course has been introduced by the Department of Communication Management and Technology of the university, which claims to be the second in the world after Boston University of the US to start a course on the subject.

He congratulated the university authorities for taking the great initiative and starting the course.

Vice Chancellor of the university Lt Gen (Retd) Dr Devinder Dayal Singh Sandhu said the course has been designed with the unique mission of preparing journalists to report and write competently on military affairs, national security issues and strategic problems.

Highlighting the exciting aspects of war reporting, Dr Sandhu said how newspaper sales increase and television news ratings go up during wartime.
....

Hope they have an all India intake and not just locals....

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 16 Jul 2009 01:26

X Posting from Rahul M's post in the LCA thread.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/16/stories ... 421800.htm

from this link :

Air Marshal S. Radhakrishnan, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Southern Naval Command

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 20 Jul 2009 19:50

Indian special forces to get new gen weapons

The picture and the caption are unrelated.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 22 Jul 2009 21:42

Goa Police get INSAS

The report ends with:

Goa, which has procured a small chunk of INSAS, intends to replace .

Might sound pedantic, but the reporter should at least complete the sentence. Or maybe there was some interesting gossip that was more important.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 23 Jul 2009 03:31

shameekg wrote:Goa Police get INSAS
Goa, which has procured a small chunk of INSAS, intends to replace .

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 27 Jul 2009 23:49

Air Force, Army struggle

Seven months after the letter was out, the Government acted swiftly and gave its permission for the acquisition of 40 Sukhoi M30s. The jets could enter service before the end of 2009.

Probably meant 40 additional aircraft. And was'nt the Su-30 MKI in the news enough recently to at least get the name right?!

The MiG-29, which was thought to be one of India's most potent weapon, is a defective aircraft. The stunning disclosure that the MiG-29 is structurally flawed was made by the Defence Minister in Parliament a few days ago.

DDM's profound knowledge of Aeronautical Engg. and the ability to draw dramatic conclusions flourishing here. Also note the selective reporting of only the negatives.

saptarishi · Post by **saptarishi** » 28 Jul 2009 00:14

At GRSE, a modernisation programme is underway to create the facilities needed for building Project 17A. The Chairman and Managing Director (CMD), Rear Admiral KC Sekhar, said a fully equipped modular yard with a 250-ton Goliath crane will be ready in mid-2011. By then, MoD sanctions will be in place and the navy would have completed the design of Project 17B.

instead of project 17B it should have been project 17A,,"BY 2011 THE DEsign of 17A WILL be finalised

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... ia/365019/

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 28 Jul 2009 01:11

By then, MoD sanctions will be in place and the navy would have completed the design of Project 17B.

MoD will place sanctions of GRSE for their shabby work!

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 01 Aug 2009 02:28

HPT-32 Crash - Yahoo News

Posting in full -

Fri, Jul 31 03:10 PM
Medak, July 31 (ANI): A trainee aircraft of the Indian Air Force (IAF) crashed in Andhra Pradesh's Medak district on Friday, killing two instructors.

According to sources, the incident took place at around 9:45 a.m. when the HPT-32 training aircraft crashed in an open ground at Annaram village of Jinnaram Mandal near the Air Force Academy, Dundigal.

Two instructors Ritin Jain and Chaturvedi were killed on the spot.

Investigations are being carried out to know the exact cause of the crash. (ANI)

One of the most appalling reports I have read. I assume 'Trainee aircraft' is a new term for an aircraft learning to fly.

And no respect for the men who lost their lives. Even their ranks are completely omitted. Pathetic!

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Aug 2009 02:37

How come there were two instructors in the HPT-32? Shouldn't one of them be a trainee pilot? Case of DDM?