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Singha wrote:floation devices will only work if the recorders are fitted into a VL tube atop the cockpit and a altimeter fires them off if the plane is about to crash, or a water sensor lets loose a compressed air cartridge later. adds to the expense and complexity I would think...
Quote wiki
Currently, EUROCAE specifies that a recorder must be able to withstand an acceleration of 3400 g (33 km/s²) for 6.5 milliseconds. This is roughly equivalent to an impact velocity of 270 knots and a deceleration or crushing distance of 450 cm. Additionally, there are requirements for penetration resistance, static crush, high and low temperature fires, deep sea pressure, sea water immersion, and fluid immersion.
FDRs are usually located in the rear of the aircraft, typically in the tail. In this position, the entire front of the aircraft is expected to act as a "crush zone" to reduce the shock that reaches the recorder. Also, modern FDRs are typically double wrapped, in strong corrosion-resistant stainless steel or titanium, with high-temperature insulation inside. They are generally fire engine red. They are designed to emit a locator beacon for up to 30 days, and can operate immersed to a depth of up to 6,000 meters (20,000 ft).
Future devices
Since the recorders can sometimes be crushed into unreadable pieces, or even located in deep water, some modern units are self-ejecting (taking advantage of kinetic energy at impact to separate themselves from the aircraft) and also equipped with radio and sonar beacons (see emergency locator transmitter) to aid in their location.
Alternatively, other aircraft such as the Space Shuttle Orbiter do not possess an FDR but instead use down-links to transfer such data[citation needed]. This kind of system could potentially see wider use in aviation in modified form.
On 19 July 2005, the Safe Aviation and Flight Enhancement Act of 2005 was introduced and referred to the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure of the U.S. House of Representatives. This bill would require installation of a second cockpit voice recorder, digital flight data recorder system and emergency locator transmitter that utilizes combination deployable recorder technology in each commercial passenger aircraft, currently required to carry each of those recorders. The deployable recorder system would be ejected from the rear of the aircraft at the moment of an accident. The bill was referred to the Subcommittee on Aviation and has not progressed since.[12][13] One problem for the military is that these commercial devices offer no protection of the data that has been recorded. Therefore, they have the potential for exposing military secrets if the device is captured by non-friendly forces and exploited.
Sometime ago we talked about the upcoming Delhi International Airport Terminal 3, and its features. Now GMR/DIAL have released a video providing a status update on the construction of this monster. Amazing statistics - 520000sqm terminal area, 2 piers each of 1.2KM length, 89 automated walkways, 4300-space carpark, 8-lane departure road, 10-land arrival road, and many more:
Also it might be worth saying that the beacons or pingers only tansmit a signal when they come in contact with saline water(chemical reaction).BTW the Secret Service are investigating the background of 2 pax whose names are similar to names on a terror list! http://www.travelbite.co.uk/news/south- ... 303020.htm
In other news with India Delhi's 1D is in trouble with the Fire Dept refusing to give clearance after citing flaws in the fire fighting measures to the tune that false ceilings were blocking off sprinklers on the roof!http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Citi ... 628592.cms
Something smelly here...how come the terminal is operating without a NOC from the Fire Dept...
About time they sell of a 30-34% stake to a pvt consortium and through IPO's to infuse some much needed liquidity and re structure all routes.
This drama has been stage managed by the pathetic management and the equally pathetic unions to pressure the GOI into pouring
more money into the rotting carcass.
About time they sell of a 30-34% stake to a pvt consortium and through IPO's to infuse some much needed liquidity and re structure all routes.
This drama has been stage managed by the pathetic management and the equally pathetic unions to pressure the GOI into pouring
more money into the rotting carcass.
Many pigs feed regularly at this trough.
I think it is the ministry that has come up with the move to fight the Unions. AI main problem is its workculture. People do not preform, they cant be fired and desision making is slow.
Even if the AI go bust, it is not a problem. The GOI will save some 4000 crores. Perhaps it can use the money to uppgrade the airport infrastructure.
I support the move, Make it clear to the unions. No more subsidies, If you cant make AI work, then no pay for you. In fact that should be the case with all PSU's
The private stalwarts are no better, every one is on some sort of dole govt or govt subsidized loans. No point in pretending one is better than the other. On a personal note Kingfisher after almost six months is yet to refund me of the ticket price for a seat released well in advance. So much for professionalism and good time. Just showing up young girls in tight chaddis and slim-trim size zero lip-sticky faces don't make an airline.
When passenger numbers were rising, Kingfisher ordered more planes, although it had never turned a profit. It lost $219 million in the last nine months of 2008.
Of the $9 billion that the International Air Transport Association estimates the global airline industry will lose in 2009, nearly a quarter will be lost by Indian airlines, which fly just 2 percent of the world’s passengers.
In an e-mail interview, Mr. Mallya brushed off suggestions that the company was struggling for survival. It will turn a profit in the next fiscal year, he said, and a $500 million loan, recently arranged by the State Bank of India and sold to an alliance of banks, is sufficient to keep the company going this year.
Bade wrote:The private stalwarts are no better, every one is on some sort of dole govt or govt subsidized loans. No point in pretending one is better than the other. On a personal note Kingfisher after almost six months is yet to refund me of the ticket price for a seat released well in advance. So much for professionalism and good time. Just showing up young girls in tight chaddis and slim-trim size zero lip-sticky faces don't make an airline.
When passenger numbers were rising, Kingfisher ordered more planes, although it had never turned a profit. It lost $219 million in the last nine months of 2008.
Of the $9 billion that the International Air Transport Association estimates the global airline industry will lose in 2009, nearly a quarter will be lost by Indian airlines, which fly just 2 percent of the world’s passengers.
In an e-mail interview, Mr. Mallya brushed off suggestions that the company was struggling for survival. It will turn a profit in the next fiscal year, he said, and a $500 million loan, recently arranged by the State Bank of India and sold to an alliance of banks, is sufficient to keep the company going this year.
Totally disagree.
1 Private players may have huge cash flow problems, but their service is far far better
2 AI in its present situation has no prospects of ever making money, because no one will pay the price to fly with them.
3 The airline industy has problems because of market situations, where the airlines have to sell below cost, because others are dumping the price. This is very different to AI, where people will want a "discomfort/harassment" discount.
4 The loans that the airlines take are subject to guarentes. They do not live on Gov. handouts.
Totally disagree.
1 Private players may have huge cash flow problems, but their service is far far better
2 AI in its present situation has no prospects of ever making money, because no one will pay the price to fly with them.
3 The airline industy has problems because of market situations, where the airlines have to sell below cost, because others are dumping the price. This is very different to AI, where people will want a "discomfort/harassment" discount.
4 The loans that the airlines take are subject to guarentes. They do not live on Gov. handouts.
All this was true for good times onlee. Now that the bad times have come it is all in red for all airlines. Has any private airline anywhere in the world made any profit. Only SouthWest airlines come to mind. Rest are just there eating one form of dole out or another.
Air-India prices were as competitive as any other as far as I can remember. The most expensive tickets I have bought was Lufthansa and had to deal with their arrogance for the $500 premium. All this is for cattle class.
All this talk of service quality difference is for people flying business class or higher. This is all on someone else's money, not out of their pockets.
Here is an airline not intimidated by the difficult times:
Paramount signs $1.5 bn deal with Airbus
20 Jun 2009, 0440 hrs IST, ET Bureau
NEW DELHI: Madurai-based Paramount Airways will buy 10 Airbus A321 aircraft for $1.5 billion. The company has placed the order with French aircraft manufactures Airbus for operating flights to the Middle East, Africa and Far Eastern destinations, Paramount managing director M Thiagarajan said.
“These overseas destinations will only have first class and business class, a model similar to our domestic operation,” he said. The delivery of first aircraft will be in the fourth quarter of 2010.
The European Central Bank is funding Paramount’s fleet expansion plan.
“Paramount has signed an agreement to buy 10 aircraft at a list price of $90 million each. The airline has option to buy 10 additional aircraft,” Airbus vice president (sales) Miranda Mills told ET ............................
^^Great idea, especially on those routes. There is a huge market of business/leisure travelers who would pay good money to avoid the general labor type folks who fly to MAS/Gulf.
About time they sell of a 30-34% stake to a pvt consortium and through IPO's to infuse some much needed liquidity and re structure all routes.
there seems to be little else option , AI has eaten up Rs. 15,000 cr. in credit chips over the past many years , I hope GoI will refuse any more credit to these people and give it the option to either accept private stake or go under.
Private carriers in India have quietly started to down size staff
as their requirements have reduced considerably following the return of many leased aircraft.
No more public and en masse firings. Just quiet and discreet jettisons
in twos and threes.
The govt just sworn in will nor care as the next elections are at least five years away
Singha wrote:AAI/IOC has refused to give more credit to KF. been asked to pay-as-you-go on a cash basis.
Well serves them right for not having paid their dues...even on international routes Shell has refused to give them credit and forced to operate on a 'prepaid' basis!
Just another reason for AI and IA's failures,foreign airlines open up non existent routes.....
Aviation
flydubai announces trio routes to India
Staff Report
Published: June 24, 2009, 13:29
Dubai: flydubai, Dubai’s first low cost airline, is all set for take off to the Indian sub-continent with the announcement of a trio of routes to the region.
flydubai will begin its Indian adventure with flights to the north eastern city of Lucknow on July 13. This will be closely followed by Coimbatore in the south of the country on July 14. The trio of destinations will be completed on July 23 when flights to the north western city of Chandigarh begin.
FZ449 will depart Dubai for Lucknow on July 13 and will operate four times per week. Prices will start from Dh425, including all taxes and one piece of hand baggage weighing up to 10kg.
The thrice-weekly Coimbatore service, FZ413, will take off from Dubai on July 14. Prices to Coimbatore also start from Dh425.
flydubai’s third Indian destination, Chandigarh, also known as The Beautiful City, serves as the capital of two states, Punjab and Haryana. With a population of around 1m, Chandigarh is the richest city in India with a per capita income of Rs 110,676 annually. Chandigarh is India’s first planned city and is internationally renowned for its architecture and planning.
FZ431 will become the first international flight to touch down at Chandigarh airport on July 23. Prices to Chandigarh start from Dh350.
WASHINGTON: A US district court in Washington State has issued summons to Air India in a multi-million dollar law suit filed by a former manager and senior instructor pilot of the Boeing Company.
In his law suit filed before a district court in the Washington State, the former manager and senior instructor pilot of the Boeing Company, Anthony P Keyter, has sought restitution and amends from Air India for allegedly violating aviation laws, adversely affecting flight safety.
In his capacity as a senior instructor pilot, Keyter was posted in India for two and a half months in 2005 as part of the Boeing team's programme to train Air India pilots after it placed a business deal of more than $11 billion.
The law suit charges that during his stay of two and a half months in India, Keyter "observed habitual violations of the aviation laws by Air India", having an adverse impact upon flight safety, endangering the lives of passengers.
"These violations occurred at the behest of Air India's operational management and many of them with the full knowledge and sanction of V Thulasidas, Chairman and Managing Director of Air India at that time," it said.
Let us see what the proposed plan of the Air Parasites is
1) Gimme a bail out of between Rs 10,000 and Rs 15000 crore. Ie between Rs 75 to Rs 150 for every man , woman and child in this country with an approx population of 100 crore !
2) Cut the bilateral deals you have signed with everyone, thereby reducing capacity and getting the prices up!. in short shaft the fare paying public by making air fares very expensive, in fact make it sky rocket.
Now why the f**k should any body in this country continue feeding the parasites. Haven't they sucked enough blood already ?. It is far cheaper to give the frickin Babu and Neta monkeys free tickets for their entire lifetime than sustain Rs 15 crore loss per day!.
As for the bilaterals, Air India did not buy planes and did not allow Indian competition. In fact , they liberally signed up the bilaterals because that was a huge money spinner. They could make money by getting the foreign guys to fly and get a cut out of that. This is the classic definition of a rent seeking blood sucking parasite , that fits the text book description to a T.
Now when there is competition, both domestic and foreign, and Air Parasite is bleeding from every pore, rather than putting it out of misery, we are told that we should pump more tax payer money to the parasite and also pay more in fares!. Why, it is good for us of course !
So much for socialism and commanding heights and all the rest of it. The babu and neta mofos ran JRD Tata's queen of the skies into the dust. Now those mofos want more tax payer and passenger blood. Why, it is good for them of course.
I only wish by some miracle, the entire parasite class of the neta/babu PSU and the entire Apex Parasite city of Nai Dilli is swept away in a tsunami of outrage citizenry rising up against it and saying no more feeding the parasites.
AI will continue to bleed the exchequer in the name of 'national pride' courtesy the netas and IAS officers who have headed a corporate organisation.I am appauled that AI management still is refraining from getting rid of the surplus support staff.Do they really need 1000 canteen staff.Have they never heard of the word outsource????? They continue to allow AI off duty pilots to ride in first class for free.
Absurd,nothing short of a miracle can save this airline.Boycott AI.
They should let the airline fold if it cannot compete, I read a good analysis which said private airlines will happily fill in, which is probably why the airline unions havent gone on strike yet and only threatened to do so (after PP's press conference on TV - moneycontrol has the entire session) no one flies AI anyway, except the babus who get free passage, free baggage allowance, go on private tours at public expense, and other services. Now they cut themselves a deal to bump up LTC entitlements to business class, after the massive pay hike! Why should the taxpayer fund the airline, especially now when far bigger problems loom ahead? I was not very reassured to hear today that AI is still being described as the jewel in our crown almost as an indispensable heirloom. Or is that the sugar coating before the bitter pill?
What is the way out, can it genuinely restructure without becoming a black hole for taxpayers money, or can it be privatised? No one wanted to buy Air India when privatisation was being actively considered by Arun Shourie in 2000-1, and people will hardly want to buy it or its shares now when it is so deeply in the red. Any solutions?
It needs autonomy from the central govt.No IAS officer but a management guru to bring it out of water and it goes without say staff retrenchment.They have an avg of 210 staff per aircraft which is 60 more than international flag carrier avg.Inspite of which service is pathetic due to the inadequate pay structure and work conditions/enviro to front desk/crew.ERP implementation.Distance from AAI will get rid of the 'chalta hai' attitude f ground staff.
It sucks to say but it might actually need a gora to run the airline.
...
Some other demands are even more difficult to meet.
At a meeting with the PM’s Principal Secretary T K Nair and Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrasekhar, Air India demanded that sixth freedom rights to all foreign airlines be reviewed. This essentially allows foreign airlines to operate to multiple destinations within India. Already, the Civil Aviation Ministry is exercising greater caution with fresh requests, but sources said it would be impossible to simply abrogate rights settled through bilateral agreements with other countries.
...
The airline wants a freeze on capacities of foreign airlines so that Air India gets some breathing space. This would mean no further negotiations on air bilaterals to improve capacities and services by other carriers. It has also asked that private domestic carriers should be advised to give up their “surplus” route entitlements, particularly in revenue earning sectors like the Gulf so that Air India can gain.
It’s learnt that these suggestions have not gone down well with the political leadership, as this approach tends to not only undermine other carriers, but actually works on the old assumption that air bilateral agreements must be suited to Air India rather than be based on passenger demand.
...
things may not be so bad. per TOI today, MMS has refused a blank cheque and instead setup a eGOS (empowered group of secys) consisting four Secy's to report within a month on a restructuring plan.
AI have been told they will get money if they can come up with a plan to
- shed flab
- become a LCC on domestic routes
Civil aviation minister said "AI is getting its last chance"
** eGOS will not doubt report to eGOM who will fwd to CCS, with maybe NSAB also brought in ....
I traveled by the Delhi-JFK Air India flight recently.
Economy class was full.
Executive class with 12 seats had ONE passanger
First Class had 6-7 passengers. Several of whom we suspected were travelling on the first class seats while they did not exactly look filthy rich. Who knows they might have had 'connections'. {No wonder they are in Debt - So many seats were just vacant}
The crew was "civil", they disappeared for long hours if you requested for something,
The seats on the Boeing 777 economy class was just about comfortable - I was not very happy with the leg room - which was just about adequate for me.
I compare this with Qatar Airlines which I had flown last year for a similar trip. Boeing 777 again. Even in Economy the seats, service, food was way beyond what Air India had. (I am willing to bet that the bill for the interiors of the AI B-777 was equal to or more than the Qatar Airways B-777, except that while the AI interiors was barely adequate, Qatar was lavish and comfortable.)
Overall for us, traveling AI left us feeling somewhat cheated.
Last edited by p_saggu on 25 Jun 2009 08:39, edited 2 times in total.
On a positive note, the International Terminal at Delhi has improved dramatically. The duty free and the snack bars all around, new flooring and finishing all over gives it a very swanky appearence. The only bright spot.
Eagerly waiting for the New terminal to come up.
But for all flying out of Delhi - there is a surcharge of Rs 1500/- added to your ticket for the new airport.
Not a chance. Except AI / IA no other desi airline has CAT 3 installed on its aircraft. Even IA I think does not have enough pilots qualified on the system to be able to use CAT-3.
The pvt players for financial reasons have not installed the system.
Some guru can clarify, but bad weather along the route also delays flights during all weathers, and more so during winters. This adds to the delays.
One more think about Dilli airport (At least the international terminal)
All the staff is Female !!! Except the Security, Customs, and baggage handlers, the place is filled with very young and smart delhi girls and ladies, smartly dressed in a white shirt and blue dress with a red scarf around their necks! And who are polite and very professional.
p_saggu wrote:Not a chance. Except AI / IA no other desi airline has CAT 3 installed on its aircraft. Even IA I think does not have enough pilots qualified on the system to be able to use CAT-3.
The pvt players for financial reasons have not installed the system.
Some guru can clarify, but bad weather along the route also delays flights during all weathers, and more so during winters. This adds to the delays.
Boss,SpiceJet,KF,Indigo all have CAT III pilots for sectors in and out of delhi.A source from KF told me its the ground staff who dont know how to operate the fog clearing equipment so landing lights are visible and the 'approach' @ ATC is under trained to provide VFR under foggy conditions hence pvt airlines don't take the risk.
p_saggu wrote:Not a chance. Except AI / IA no other desi airline has CAT 3 installed on its aircraft. Even IA I think does not have enough pilots qualified on the system to be able to use CAT-3.
The pvt players for financial reasons have not installed the system.
Some guru can clarify, but bad weather along the route also delays flights during all weathers, and more so during winters. This adds to the delays.
Boss,SpiceJet,KF,Indigo all have CAT III pilots for sectors in and out of delhi.A source from KF told me its the ground staff who dont know how to operate the fog clearing equipment so landing lights are visible and the 'approach' @ ATC is under trained to provide VFR under foggy conditions hence pvt airlines don't take the risk.
Not much interest either in the private sector to train pilots for CAT III operations as these fickle jokers tend to jump ship very very easily for a few dollars more. Also, such training is very expensive too.
There are many things that have gone wrong with Indian/ Indian Airlines/ Air India/ NACIL. The first was the botched merger. It was optimistic from day one to expect that integration would go easily, and projections of alternative directions that the joint entity could strike out in appear to have been wild phantasms of the imagination. Then there is the company’s sheer size in terms of manpower. It employs half a lakh people. Over 60 per cent of that number is permanent, the rest being contract employees. 50,000 employees. The world’s largest airline — not the most profitable, not the leanest, the largest, the shareholders of which are muttering about flab — is American Airlines. AA has 60,000 employees. With those, its 993 aircraft connected 171 cities, serving 80 million passengers a year, averaging 2,600 departures a day. Air India has 148 aircraft. Passenger figures for Air India are disputed, but it carries about 10 million. That isn’t in the same league. Forget about the same league, there’s some doubt whether it’s even playing the same sport. And yet, it has comparable numbers for employees.
This is also an organisation where the wage- and fuel- bill contribute nearly 60 per cent to the total cost as against 40-45 per cent in case of other carriers.
It's no surprise, therefore, that Air India, once the market leader, now has a share of only 18 per cent and is reduced to competing with low-cost carriers like IndiGo Airlines, which has a market share of around 15 per cent.
The culmination of all this is that AI has incurred a net loss of more than Rs 4,000 crore (Rs 40 billion) in the financial year-ended March 31.
There are many problems with Air India's HR policies -- some of these are unavoidable due to its public sector character. But the productivity-linked scheme, introduced in the 1990s, was perhaps the most ridiculous scheme ever introduced by a company. So much so that one former MP famously described the scheme as nothing but legalised bribe.
consisting four Secy's to report within a month on a restructuring plan.
