Su-30: News and Discussion

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 08 Jul 2009 23:51

IAF to have 230 Su-30 MKI fighters by 2015: Antony

Minister of State for Defence M M Pallam Raju said the blackbox of the crashed Sukhoi was badly damaged and has been sent to the UK for retrieving information.

Why did they send it to UK ?

Ankit

Sandipan · Post by **Sandipan** » 09 Jul 2009 00:40

NRao - Isn't the N011M Bars on MKI good enough so they need to be replaced by this French AESA radar? And what I read earlier was that N011M Bars if going to be replaced someday, they are to be replaced by NIIP Irbis-E radar.

Vinito · Post by **Vinito** » 09 Jul 2009 00:47

Sandipan wrote:NRao - Isn't the N011M Bars on MKI good enough so they need to be replaced by this French AESA radar? And what I read earlier was that N011M Bars if going to be replaced someday, they are to be replaced by NIIP Irbis-E radar.

I have heard that too....why the sudden interest in French electronics?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 09 Jul 2009 01:00

ajay_hk wrote:IAF to have 230 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter planes by 2015: Antony
Replying to supplementaries during the Question Hour, Antony said since 1996 IAF has procured 98 Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter aircraft.

"By 2015, we plan to have a fleet of 230 Sukhoi fighter aircraft," he said.

Instead of 14 plus squadrons, IAF should have gone with 20 squadrons. This would give them extra air power for the islands in the south and territorial water protection.

Having couple of SU30 MKI squadrons on the islands will allow India to face the northern threat from the south also. India can challenge the Chinese navy before it comes close to India’s mainland.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 09 Jul 2009 02:09

Vinod,

What are you talking about?

We have 98 MKI and no more than 5 squadrons?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Jul 2009 02:26

NRao wrote:An interesting news item.

AESA Radar Options Displayed

The RBE-2 along with the OSF infra-red search-and-track system is being proposed for installation on board 90 of the IAF’s 230 Su-30MKIs on order.

***ALERT***

tempur, of the chor sengupta fame ! believe at your own risk.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Jul 2009 02:51

Is that right?

Can you explain "tempur" a little more please? I did not see any finger prints anywhere. But then I do not work for any agency.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Jul 2009 02:55

NRao sahab, click the link and read the banner.

tempur is a malaysian defence rag p sengupta writes for. IIRC it was also the mag which carried rupak's article which sengupta had lifted as his own without credit.

their focus is almost exclusively on SE asia and it is very likely that India related reporting by tempur, even by other correspondents is likely to be tainted by sengupta's views.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Jul 2009 03:06

I did notice that one person was doing everything and that it was from Malaysia. But did not know that copy chor (photo chor's brother) contributed. I did uncovered a reverse copying.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jul 2009 03:42

230 planes by 2015 with 98 already means the production rate ~ 20 planes a year for next five years. Do they have that much rate?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Jul 2009 03:44

includes 40 from russia directly of which only 5-10 have been delivered.
but the target was 2013, seems they have slipped up !

Rupak · Post by **Rupak** » 09 Jul 2009 08:27

No, Rahul. The production and delivery schedules have actually been compressed. Originally HAL was to conclude production on 140 aircraft by 2017. This has now been compressed to all aircraft being delivered in the 2014 financial year.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 09 Jul 2009 10:37

Vinito wrote:I have heard that too....why the sudden interest in French electronics?

MMRCA Bait

Ankit Desai wrote:Why did they send it to UK ?

This was explained by Shiv earlier in some other context. Can't reproducce the exact same thing, but what i understood was, the data transfer points were so damaged that the entire box would have to be opened up, which is restricted to the country of origin (here - UK). Hence the effort.

NRao wrote: The RBE-2 along with the OSF infra-red search-and-track system is being proposed for installation on board 90 of the IAF’s 230 Su-30MKIs on order

The article also mentions a whopping 450 radars for IAF. Could it be 230 sukhois + 220 Tejas? But then it also mentions that only 90 of 230 MKIs will be fit with the AESA.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Jul 2009 10:41

Rupak wrote:No, Rahul. The production and delivery schedules have actually been compressed. Originally HAL was to conclude production on 140 aircraft by 2017. This has now been compressed to all aircraft being delivered in the 2014 financial year.

I meant the compressed date only. but the 2014 somehow became 2013 in my mind !

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 09 Jul 2009 11:48

Murphyji, decorating rambha with french cosmetics, will render her R-77s useless as rusis wont share the interfacing details. Guess it is chor gupta's wet dream onree.

Nirmal · Post by **Nirmal** » 09 Jul 2009 13:38

aditp wrote:Force Magazine reports in the latest issue:-

1.) Su-30 MKI to undergo mid-life upgrade starting 2014
2.) Bars radar to be upgraded with AESA antenna
3.) active skin - AESA T/R modules to be mounted in wing sections to provide > 180 deg FoV
4.) Al-31FP engines to be uprated by 20% with operating life increased to 6k hrs
5.) Conformal weapons station between engine pods for stealth (carries a prototype photo too!)

Defence Aviation

///////////////////////////////////////////
Su-30MKI to go stealthy

Posted: 08 Jul 2009 06:06 AM PDT
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/DefenceA ... althy.html

After the F-15 Silent eagle its time for Su-30MKI to disapear out of the
radar. There have been reports that Russias UAC (United Aircraft
Corporation) and Indias HAL (Hindustan Aeronotics Limited) are developing
the ‘Smart Skin’ concept for Su-30MKI.

Smart skin also know as Artificial neural membrane refers to a new class of
functional structure developed through research adaptive and evolutionary
neural networks and programmable materials. The greatest interest in ANM
structures surround their potential as open architecture environments for
the integration of microscale and nanoscale devices. Artificial neural
membrane technology development has been funded by the NASA Institute for
Advanced Concepts, for application to quasi-steady state flapping wing
flight. Currently Aerospace Research Systems, Inc. the agency that
pioneered work in developing artificial neurons for use in control of
multifunctional smart structures is applying the technology to reusable
launch vehicles. Other applications include biotechnology processes,
morphing aircraft and spacecraft, adaptive wind generators, and artificial
organs. Recent research also indicates that ANM systems may provide the
first truly automated intentional or conceptual programming environment.

By 2014, UAC together with HAL will begin upgrading the first 100 IAF
Su-30MKIs by modifying their airframes to make them stealthy, converting
the existing ‘Bars’ into an active phased-array radar, enhancing the
situational awareness by incorporating active electronically scanned
transmit/receive arrays on the aircraft’s wings and pumping up the
defensive-aids suite by installing a combined radar/laser warning system
and a missile approach warning system.

Sources:

http://www.arsispace.com/

http://www.forceindia.net/specialfeaturereport4.aspx

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 09 Jul 2009 14:12

^^^
Could this be the cloa(c)k tech doing rounds sometime back....

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 09 Jul 2009 17:57

aditp wrote:Murphyji, decorating rambha with french cosmetics, will render her R-77s useless as rusis wont share the interfacing details. Guess it is chor gupta's wet dream onree.

Is that a problem? What if they offer Meteor with it? And i believe an AESA radar is little more than cosmetics. MT.

Nirmal wrote:Su-30MKI to go stealthy

That reminds me about the 2 Rambhas sent to Russia for "structural reforms" to accomodate the Brahmos. They then claimed that the work will be done only by 2012. That makes me wonder if they're also trying out some permutation-combinations for stealth.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 09 Jul 2009 21:03

Rahul M wrote:NRao sahab, click the link and read the banner.

tempur is a malaysian defence rag p sengupta writes for. IIRC it was also the mag which carried rupak's article which sengupta had lifted as his own without credit.

their focus is almost exclusively on SE asia and it is very likely that India related reporting by tempur, even by other correspondents is likely to be tainted by sengupta's views.

u r right.

Perhaps you should delete my post above before anyone uses BR as a jumping point to validate this info.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 09 Jul 2009 21:24

Dmurphy wrote:
aditp wrote:Murphyji, decorating rambha with french cosmetics, will render her R-77s useless as rusis wont share the interfacing details. Guess it is chor gupta's wet dream onree.
Is that a problem? What if they offer Meteor with it? And i believe an AESA radar is little more than cosmetics. MT.

Nirmal wrote:Su-30MKI to go stealthy
That reminds me about the 2 Rambhas sent to Russia for "structural reforms" to accomodate the Brahmos. They then claimed that the work will be done only by 2012. That makes me wonder if they're also trying out some permutation-combinations for stealth.

perhaps pakfa may be modified as a sukhoi or vice-versa,

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 10 Jul 2009 09:22

Samay wrote:perhaps pakfa may be modified as a sukhoi or vice-versa,

Thats absolute bull****

ANd...Shubh shubh bolo, Shubh shubh bol!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 10 Jul 2009 20:34

Meet India’s SU-30MK1 jet fighter
By Hari Sud

John · Post by **John** » 10 Jul 2009 21:04

Dmurphy wrote:
aditp wrote:Murphyji, decorating rambha with french cosmetics, will render her R-77s useless as rusis wont share the interfacing details. Guess it is chor gupta's wet dream onree.
Is that a problem? What if they offer Meteor with it? And i believe an AESA radar is little more than cosmetics. MT.

Nirmal wrote:Su-30MKI to go stealthy
That reminds me about the 2 Rambhas sent to Russia for "structural reforms" to accomodate the Brahmos. They then claimed that the work will be done only by 2012. That makes me wonder if they're also trying out some permutation-combinations for stealth.

If it is going to take 2 years to make structural changes on Sukhoi so the work will be extensive and might even have some impact on its performance just to carry 1 brahmos? I really doubt the status of IAF deploying Brahmos if that were the case i do not see them procuring it just for the Su-30s even in that case only on planes that have been modified for it and it cannot be carried on any of MRCA platforms or in any of IN's platform with exception of the Bears (i am doubtful even they can carry them). Future of air launched Brahmos is big question mark.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Jul 2009 21:15

Gerard wrote:Meet India’s SU-30MK1 jet fighter
By Hari Sud

Searched for "MKI" in this article: "Text not found". An inexcusable cardinal sin.

The article needs to be polished. Quite a few discrepancies.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 10 Jul 2009 22:39

Future of air launched Brahmos is big question mark.

Is the SU-34 capable of carrying the Brahmos?

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 10 Jul 2009 23:12

Gerard wrote:Meet India’s SU-30MK1 jet fighter
By Hari Sud

Su27 is a magestic aircraft so is the su30 , this forced them(pentagon) to alter the stealth development path to have a ready beast as soon as su27/30 reaches most of the third world and chna,.
Now we know that f22 is sucking all the money of usaf,but still cant perform as expected neither it is in adequate nos as pointed out in APA article that this is a dead end, last one of its kind.
If usa goes with more jsf 35 , it will compromize the air dominance as ruskies claim that it can be detected,.
All credit to sukhoi team., particularly su30, to break usaf's money advantage over others

During a 2004 friendly exercise with the Indian Air Force in Gwalior, India, the U.S. Air Force was humbled when the Indian SU-30 MK1 fighter outscored the best U.S. air domination fighter, the F-16C. U.S. General Hal Hornburg, commander of the Air Combat Command, lamented that it was a “wake-up call” for the U.S. Air Force and that it had been bested by the relatively unknown air power, India.

Hornburg pleaded with the U.S. government for the speedy development of the F-22, the Raptor, and the F-35, the Joint Strike Fighter. The results of this humbling of U.S. pilots are still classified, but Hornburg blamed the disastrous results of the exercise on the lack of better radar on the F-15C.

The SU-30 MK1 fighter jet is a Russian export version of the twin-seater SU-27 fighter jet, which arrived in India after the conclusion of an agreement with Russian President Boris Yeltsin in 1996. The planes arrived in batches and in kit form starting from 1997.

By 2014 they will make it more stealthier
V

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 10 Jul 2009 23:54

Dmurphy wrote:
Samay wrote:perhaps pakfa may be modified as a sukhoi or vice-versa,
Thats absolute bull****

ANd...Shubh shubh bolo, Shubh shubh bol!

I intended a shubh shubh,but you have taken it wrong,.
I know it is an idea out of wilderness ,
I am not claiming that pakfa would be su30+stealth neither that pakfa minus stalth would be su30,
but isnt it true that sukhoi is given the contract to develop ?
what I meant is that the pakfa development will enable su30 to turn as a su30+stealth,because of the commonality it bears due to its inheritance from same manufacturer,in the same way f18 benefited from stealth research,so did f15,.
and isn't it true that we could see a new skin on su30 in 2014.,?
About pakfa,it will be mkized no matter how ruskies make it structurally.,to convert it as an air dominance fighter ,substituting su30,is what I meant.

John · Post by **John** » 11 Jul 2009 01:03

Gerard wrote:
Future of air launched Brahmos is big question mark.
Is the SU-34 capable of carrying the Brahmos?

It should be able to carry them since its airframe is more strengthened to carry heavy payloads but I do not think Russians have any plan to deploy air launched Brahmos. But Su-34+Brahmos should make a good export package to countries like Vietnam.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 11 Jul 2009 01:09

NRao wrote:
Gerard wrote:Meet India’s SU-30MK1 jet fighter
By Hari Sud
Searched for "MKI" in this article: "Text not found". An inexcusable cardinal sin.

The article needs to be polished. Quite a few discrepancies.

Its because of these websites from where he copied .
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/sho ... hoto/24740
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/su ... 28722.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread343070/pg4
http://www.missilethreat.com/archives/id.242/detail.asp

also check out the contents they have

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 11 Jul 2009 10:00

MKI or MK1 ?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Jul 2009 10:15

A note on the designation 'Su-30MKI': 'Su' stands for a production fighter designed by the USSR/Russia's famed Sukhoi Experimental Designed Bureau. Su-30 derived from the Su-27UB, which is the twin-seat trainer-combat version of the Su-27. Therefore all Su-30 versions are twin seat (except for Su-30KI). 'MK' is a Russian acronym for Mordernised-Commercial (not 'Multirole') while 'I' stands for Indiski(India) in the Su-30MKI, while 'K' stands for Kitei(China) in the Su-30MKK. Names apart, there are many central differences between the Su-30MKK and Su-30MKI

http://vayu-sena.tripod.com/info-su30mki.html

if you are interested about the mki, this place is a good one to start.

Drevin · Post by **Drevin** » 11 Jul 2009 13:15

In the May/June edition force magazine there is a su30 in new paint? what does that paint scheme commemorate? anyone know?

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 11 Jul 2009 18:27

force article about MKI getting skin AESA is a stupid joke. prasun-chor-gupta has again copied items from different magazines, reports and making a complete khicdi.
but it is true about further upgrade of BARS to much more powerful version and finally AESA version of BARS/New AESA depending on IAF requirement.

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 11 Jul 2009 18:47

Samay wrote: Its because of these websites from where he copied .
also check out the contents they have

If you only knew, he is a BR member and regularly posts here. The links that you posted, don't prove that he "copied" as in "verbatim", although I agree with the consensus that it needs to be accurate and doesn't fall prey to common misconceptions.

PS : Can any Jingo contact him?, as I am not at ease with his justification as opposed to a needed correction, at the end of the article (@comments section)

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 11 Jul 2009 23:30

Tilak wrote:
If you only knew, he is a BR member and regularly posts here. The links that you posted, don't prove that he "copied" as in "verbatim", although I agree with the consensus that it needs to be accurate and doesn't fall prey to common misconceptions.

PS : Can any Jingo contact him?, as I am not at ease with his justification as opposed to a needed correction, at the end of the article (@comments section)

... If that makles hs mistakles lik that of mny ddms as acceptable,then this ij a wrong ,but knowing that he posts here and then not even single mention of MKI in that article!!, this makes his mistake as a blasphemy .
I guess there is a race amongst ddms as who makes the biggest blunder in disguise

Sandipan · Post by **Sandipan** » 12 Jul 2009 03:24

Reading Hari Sud's article, one point which came to my mind is that we dont know much about the outcome of Red Flag 2008. We know bits and pieces like Red Flag Director commended IAF for its performance specially on its first visit. There were nice photographs from Kedar and Sekhon and there was the Youtube video of the Colonel Terence making fun of IAF. My request is anybody has any idea as to what were the outcome/ conclusions as to performance drawn from RF 2008 by IAF or by RF officials themselves. if this was discussed earlier then i apologise for my ignorance.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Jul 2009 13:48

you will never get official responses from IAF or USAF on performance since the PR fiasco of COPE 2004 gwalior.

but the semi-official responses from more than one source, vishnu som who was present during RF, and IAF sources of pushpinder singh and two of our own BRFites can be found in the military exercises archives.

@ Samay, please use complete words. sms speak is not for BR.

Vikram_S · Post by **Vikram_S** » 12 Jul 2009 19:48

There is a indian newsmedia video with the interviews of the IAF guys immediately after they came back, the overall thing states:

-IAF was the top scorer in terms of performance ie amongst French, SoKo and USAF regulars themselves, the video/interviews both give the impression, AM Naik also appears for a quick comment, very proud of the guys
- Was called to the dais for special commendation by the Nellis aggressor team for its performance
- Initial response of USAF to IAF presence was initially patronising but became respectful once IAF professionalism became apparent
-Very confident talk by IAF people that they didnt plan on going to Nellis every year as it was expensive and came in way of regular IAF operations and training so plan was to go once in a while and create Nellis type exercise in India

I will try and find the link

Rahulm, thanks for kind words in other thread

Vinito · Post by **Vinito** » 13 Jul 2009 14:26

Vikram_S wrote:There is a indian newsmedia video with the interviews of the IAF guys immediately after they came back, the overall thing states:

-IAF was the top scorer in terms of performance ie amongst French, SoKo and USAF regulars themselves, the video/interviews both give the impression, AM Naik also appears for a quick comment, very proud of the guys
- Was called to the dais for special commendation by the Nellis aggressor team for its performance
- Initial response of USAF to IAF presence was initially patronising but became respectful once IAF professionalism became apparent
-Very confident talk by IAF people that they didnt plan on going to Nellis every year as it was expensive and came in way of regular IAF operations and training so plan was to go once in a while and create Nellis type exercise in India

I will try and find the link

Rahulm, thanks for kind words in other thread

even though these excercises are expensive. wont it be helpful to make the IAF pilots even better that what they already are. After all, perfection is a continuos effort.

Its through these excercises that the IAF will be able to sharpen the skills and also test their mettle against all possible types of aircraft they may come up against, albeit piloted by the best pilots. Beat them then they can be rest assured to take on these planes piloted by the not so good adversaries of our not so friendly neighbourhood.

Now only if our ministry babu's can eat a little less moolah from the Defence budget and contribute more towards the pilots training in the never ending quest to make them the best

kedar.karmarkar · Post by **kedar.karmarkar** » 21 Jul 2009 22:09

Guys - slightly off topic here.

Needed help with the maneuvers which are performed in the Su-30MKI display routine? especially those performed at AI09.

I dont have a vdo cam to go thru the sequence again, and get it.

Much appreciated.

Best Regards;
Kedar