Indo-French Ties

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 23 Jul 2008 01:19

The french have considerable interests in the Great Game as well...but they do not have the finesse/knowledge of the shopkeepers or the muscle power of Uncle.

They stand to lose more than the shopkeepers should Asia's share of the cake grow bigger.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 23 Jul 2008 04:52

Paul wrote:The french have considerable interests in the Great Game as well...but they do not have the finesse/knowledge of the shopkeepers or the muscle power of Uncle.

They stand to lose more than the shopkeepers should Asia's share of the cake grow bigger.

This was understood after the defeat of the french in 7 year war between English and the French in 1763.

The Seven Years' War (1756–1763) involved all of the major European powers of the period, causing 900,000 to 1,400,000 deaths.[1] It enveloped both European and colonial theatres from 1756 to 1763, incorporating the Pomeranian War and the French and Indian War which was fought from 1754 to 1763. Prussia, Electorate Brunswick-Lüneburg, and United Kingdom of Great Britain (including British colonies in North America, the British East India Company, and Ireland) were pitted against Austria, France (including the North American colony of New France and the French East India Company), the Russian Empire, Sweden, and Saxony. Portugal (on the side of Great Britain) and Spain (on the side of France) were later drawn into the conflict, and a force from the neutral Netherlands was attacked in India
The war ended France's position as a major colonial power in the Americas (where it lost most of its possessions on the mainland of North America, in addition to some West Indian islands) and its position as the leading power in Europe,[2] until the time of the French Revolution. Great Britain, meanwhile, emerged as the dominant colonial power in the world. The French Navy was crippled, which meant that only an ambitious rebuilding program in combination with the Spanish fleet would see it again threaten the Royal Navy's command of the sea.[3] On the other side of the world, the British East India Company acquired the strongest position within India, which was to become the "jewel in the imperial crown". The war was described by Winston Churchill as the first "world war",[4] as it was the first conflict in human history to be fought around the globe, although most of the combatants were either European nations or their overseas colonies. As a partially Anglo-French conflict involving developing empires, the war was one of the most significant phases of the 18th century Second Hundred Years' War.[5]
.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 16 Oct 2008 11:43

jamia vc: it was travolta's mistake, non muslims are not allowed to enter darul ul islam.
arundhati roy: France should get freedom from les bosquets de montfermeil.

Arson attack halts Travolta film in Paris
It was billed as the big-budget film that would bring hope and much-needed prosperity to one of Paris's most notoriously troubled suburbs. But shooting of Luc Besson's From Paris With Love, starring John Travolta, has been cancelled after 10 stunt cars were set alight during a night-time rampage.

Several scenes of the €38.5m (£30m) movie were due to be filmed in Les Bosquets de Montfermeil, a restive public housing estate in the north-east of the capital, which was one of the first areas to explode into violence during the riots of 2005.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 16 Oct 2008 21:48

Sarkozy: “Arabic Is the Language of the Future”

Carla Bruni persuades Nicolas Sarkozy to let ex-terrorist from Italy stay in France

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Oct 2008 21:57

In his message to the participants, French President Nicolas Sarkozy called Arabic the "language of the future, of science and of modernity," and expressed the hope that "more French people share in the language that expresses great civilizational and spiritual values."

"We must invest in the Arabic language (because) to teach it symbolizes a moment of exchange, of openness and of tolerance, (and it) brings with it one of the oldest and most prestigious civilizations of the world.

It is in France that we have the greatest number of persons of Arabic and Muslim origin. Islam is the second religion of France," Sarkozy reminded his listeners.

Have the French got the "secularism" bug from our netas??

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 16 Oct 2008 22:00

There is something else going on here. Too early to draw conclusions of any kind.

satya · Post by **satya** » 16 Oct 2008 22:04

There is something else going on here. Too early to draw conclusions of any kind.

Sarkozy is heading the european move to end Bretton Woods agreement .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Feb 2009 05:21

Can anyone follow-up this story please?

“Indo-Pakistani” label in Paris murder draws expatriate ire

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 Feb 2009 22:28

sum wrote:
In his message to the participants, French President Nicolas Sarkozy called Arabic the "language of the future, of science and of modernity," and expressed the hope that "more French people share in the language that expresses great civilizational and spiritual values."

"We must invest in the Arabic language (because) to teach it symbolizes a moment of exchange, of openness and of tolerance, (and it) brings with it one of the oldest and most prestigious civilizations of the world.

It is in France that we have the greatest number of persons of Arabic and Muslim origin. Islam is the second religion of France," Sarkozy reminded his listeners.

Have the French got the "secularism" bug from our netas??

the french state is much more secular than most european ones by design. also, france has one of the largest muslim populations in europe - mostly poor north africans who are restless and easy fodder for the jehad organisers. france needs a new policy for handling all of this mess - much of it from its own racist making in the past

Keshav · Post by **Keshav** » 25 Feb 2009 02:06

Lalmohan wrote:the french state is much more secular than most european ones by design. also, france has one of the largest muslim populations in europe - mostly poor north africans who are restless and easy fodder for the jehad organisers. france needs a new policy for handling all of this mess - much of it from its own racist making in the past

A lot of the problems that immigrants have in Western countries is the high cost of higher education. In Europe, college is essentially free for citizens who inevitably pay taxes over decades and in America, its just ridiculously costly.

In Europe, also, most of the good schools are private schools which require tuition. In America, public schools are used by the majority and at the very least, it is not difficult to attain a diploma. Europe, especially France, has problems with the education system (Elementary and Middle - not sure what they call that in India) that it needs to fix to help all its low-income peoples, not just immigrants.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Mar 2009 02:46

Agencies report : France to return to NATO after 40 years.

Wow the meltdown has melted the walls.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 12 Mar 2009 03:50

Its been on the cards for quite a while now. IOL reported it in Mid feb. sorry for not posting. It appears they wanted to have a greater say in the Alliance’s operational decisions and especially in Afghanistan. if you want me to send me the article, i can email it to you (its a bit big).

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 12 Mar 2009 07:36

Remember that even in De Gaulle's last term, France *never* left NATO. They only withdrew from integrated military planning.

Mitterand resumed serious military co-ordination between France and NATO back in the early 1980s.

In the 1990s France was integrated with NATO operations in the Balkans, and of course since 9/11 the French have been integrated in ops in the Indian Ocean, Afghanistan and Central Asia.

Given this reality since the early 1990s there has been steady military support of formal reintegration, and Sarkozy indicated he supported it even before he was elected. Rejoining is a recognition of an existing military reality, and it gives French defence industries a better shot at NATO projects, and it strengthens French influence within NATO.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 12 Mar 2009 14:00

Sarkozy is possibly much more of a realist. he doesn't trust the Russians or the Chinese to cut him any slack in the long term, better then to stay with Unkil

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 12 Mar 2009 21:27

Somethings never change.
Bail means different things to goras.
Could an Indian have done this in france ?

Tuesday, Mar 10, 2009, 16:01
Alliance Francaise boss caught with charas, sent back

CHANDIGARH: The head of a prestigious French institution meant to promote cultural ties was quietly smuggled out of India after she was arrested in Himachal Pradesh with 250 gms of charas, a crime that could have sent her to jail for 10 years.

Isabelle Normand, the director of Alliance Francaise, Chandigarh, was arrested more than two weeks ago in Kullu, said sources in HP police. Cops found the contraband on her at the Bajaura checkpost on Kullu-Mandi highway on February 23.

Police said Normand first tried to conceal her identity. But when officers insisted on her arrest, she said she was part of a technical team from the French embassy in New Delhi, sources said.

Under the Narcotic and Drugs (Prohibition) Act, possession of over 100 gms of charas attracts a maximum punishment of 10 years of rigorous imprisonment.

Jagat Ram, who was Kullu SP at the time of Normand's arrest, said the French embassy was informed of her arrest. She was later produced in a court, which granted her bail.

Kullu SP K K Indoriya said Normand had left the country and the court could summon her whenever it wanted. French embassy officials in New Delhi confirmed that she had left for France after getting bail from the court.

"Normand is no longer heading Alliance Francaise, Chandigarh,'' French embassy's spokesman Alain Perrier told TOI from New Delhi on phone.

Perrier said he did not know if the French government or the embassy had taken any action against her. "All I can add is that a new director will take charge of the Alliance Francaise centre soon,'' he said.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Apr 2009 08:04

Paris liberation made 'whites only'

By Mike Thomson
Presenter, Document, BBC Radio 4

Papers unearthed by the BBC reveal that British and American commanders ensured that the liberation of Paris on 25 August 1944 was seen as a "whites only" victory.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 08 Apr 2009 14:20

Papers unearthed by the BBC reveal that British and American commanders ensured that the liberation of Paris on 25 August 1944 was seen as a "whites only" victory.

WW2 victory has been made to appear like that as a whole. Forget Monte Casimo, Flats of the Flanders, North Africa, Japans first military defeat in WW2 at the hands of Indian troops, Japans ignominous backtrack/ pushback from the jungles off Kohima, Imphal and retreat over Burma, Indian troops opening lines to besieiged Chinese troops fighting the imperial Army. The entire WW2 was made into a Whites only victory, heck..even the Soviets got concessions in a grudging manner..

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 27 May 2009 11:35

India to be guest of honour at France’s national day celebrations: AFP

ABU DHABI: India will be guest of honour at France’s national day celebrations this year and Indian troops will parade down the Champs Elysees avenue in Paris on July 14, the French presidency said Monday.

“India will be the guest of honour at the July 14 celebrations and Indian regiments will march in front of the French army,” said a French official accomnpanying President Nicolas Sarkozy on a visit to the United Arab Emirates. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, fresh from his election victory, will be present at the parade, the official said. Sarkozy had been in New Delhi for India’s Independence Day celebrations in January 2008.

Bastille Day "Fête Nationale" is on 14th July.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 27 May 2009 18:03

IOL: Basically, post 26/11, India has upped their intelligence relations with France. Loads of french intel officials have been dropping into New Delhi. Their police and so on were helping in the forensic investigations. Sarkozy's diplomatic advisor and along with all the heads of their intel agencies dropped in and held talks with head of IB and NIA(yes NIA apparently). More later

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 May 2009 18:38

harbans wrote:
Papers unearthed by the BBC reveal that British and American commanders ensured that the liberation of Paris on 25 August 1944 was seen as a "whites only" victory.
WW2 victory has been made to appear like that as a whole. Forget Monte Casimo, Flats of the Flanders, North Africa, Japans first military defeat in WW2 at the hands of Indian troops, Japans ignominous backtrack/ pushback from the jungles off Kohima, Imphal and retreat over Burma, Indian troops opening lines to besieiged Chinese troops fighting the imperial Army. The entire WW2 was made into a Whites only victory, heck..even the Soviets got concessions in a grudging manner..

I believe that it was engineered such that "free french" troops were the first to enter paris. also - don't forget that the war was about the end of the old european empires and the dawn of the new american and soviet empires - hence the focus on white. at that time most europeans thought of the soviets as close to barbarians anyway

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Jun 2009 16:43

Some tragic news,that an Air France airliner bound for Paris from Rio is missing over the Atlantic.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 404837.ece

arun · Post by **arun** » 05 Jun 2009 14:11

Trust our Ministry of External Affairs is keeping a close watch on the reports of France and Pakistan talking about a civilian nuclear agreement.

The French are a very mercenary lot.

The prospect of profit, even from as un-creditworthy not to mention nuclear proliferation inclined a country as Pakistan, can cause them to rapidly forget good sense:

Pakistan backs Obama’s Middle East approach

FO says Kashmir settlement absolutely essential for lasting peace; talks with France on civilian nuclear agreement next month

Friday, June 05, 2009
By Mariana Baabar

…….................... He {spokesman at Pakistan’s Foreign Office} announced that July will see the first round of negotiations between Pakistan and France following a meeting between the Pakistani and French presidents in Paris. When asked whether France is serious about a civilian nuclear deal with Pakistan, the spokesman said, “Our two countries have agreed to embark on a process of negotiating a Framework Agreement. We expect that the first round of these negotiations will take place in Islamabad in July. We hope to conclude this Framework Agreement and make available for signatures by the end of this year. The president of France is expected to visit Pakistan by the end of this year and we hope that during his visit this agreement will be signed.”……….....................

The News

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 05 Jun 2009 14:27

When asked whether France is serious about a civilian nuclear deal with Pakistan, the spokesman said, “Our two countries have agreed to embark on a process of negotiating a Framework Agreement. We expect that the first round of these negotiations will take place in Islamabad in July. We hope to conclude this Framework Agreement and make available for signatures by the end of this year.

North korean president would welcome this development and would barter more korean missiles for nuke tech from pakistan.

Win win situation for rogue nations.

James B · Post by **James B** » 05 Jun 2009 14:35

arun wrote:Trust our Ministry of External Affairs is keeping a close watch on the reports of France and Pakistan talking about a civilian nuclear agreement.

The French are a very mercenary lot.

The prospect of profit, even from as un-creditworthy not to mention nuclear proliferation inclined a country as Pakistan, can cause them to rapidly forget good sense:

Even if they sign a nuclear deal with Pakis, it will be operational only after agreement by NSG which I think is very unlikey given the nuclear proliferation deeds of pakis.

arun · Post by **arun** » 05 Jun 2009 16:05

Lets me say that the world does have its share of those for whom potential profit trumps Pakistan’s very poor nuclear proliferation record and for those the NSG's “Safety Exception” Clause can be abused to provide some latitude from NSG Guidelines.

It was this “Safety Exception” clause that Russia invoked as support for supplying nuclear fuel for our Tarapur reactor back in 2006. At that time India’s agreements with both the NSG and the IAEA had yet to be executed.

The “Safety” word was very much in evidence when France issued a clarification following the disclosure last month by Pakistan’s Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi that France had agreed to a transfer of civilian nuclear energy technology to Pakistan:

France offers Pakistan nuclear energy help

May 15, 2009

PARIS
……………. A spokesman for the French presidency said Sarkozy had "confirmed France was ready, within the framework of its international agreements, to cooperate with Pakistan in the field of nuclear safety."

"This is so the Pakistani programme can develop in the best conditions of safety and security," he added. ……………..

AFP via Google

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 25 Jun 2009 03:34

Deoband mulls fatwa against French goods

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 25 Jun 2009 13:45

Gerard wrote:Deoband mulls fatwa against French goods

I wonder, what the Deobandis, they all buy from France! French wine, perhaps?

If the Deobandis had considered improving the lot of the Muslims in India through proper education, technical expertise, then may be today or at least some day, their fatwas of boycotts would have had some meaning. As things stand today, they are hardly the market, whose loss would shake the French!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 25 Jun 2009 15:49

Unfortunately we are likely to see protests against military deals (Scorpene), exercises etc with the French.
Mullahs tend to be concerned about what others are doing, rather than themselves. They will buy French wine and next day lead a gherao of the Scorpene shipyard.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Jul 2009 23:59

Gerard wrote:Deoband mulls fatwa against French goods

The deobandhis are talking through their hats as usual!

‘Muslim imams say burka not obligatory in Islam’

Days after President Nicolas Sarkozy slammed the burka, or face veil, as "not welcome" in France, Islamic scholars said the burka was not obligatory in Islam and said every state had a right to ban the face veil.

The burka debate has been raging for a while in Europe with countries like the Netherlands banning it in universities and the British press reporting that Muslims and non-Muslims alike are calling for a ban on the face covering attire.

As for the Islamic reaction Egypt's Grand Imam, Sheikh Mohammad Tantawi, said the face veil was not compulsory in Islam and said every head of state had the right to accept or prohibit it.

"Sarkozy's decision is in harmony with the secularism of the French republic," Dalil Boubakeur, Imam of the Paris Grand Mosque, told Al Arabiya.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 14 Jul 2009 20:21

Manmohan, Sarkozy discuss N-energy, defence cooperation: Indian Express

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 14 Jul 2009 23:35

France, India discuss defence, energy after parade

"France loves India," Sarkozy told guests on the lawn of the Elysee Palace after the talks.

Jamal K. Malik · Post by **Jamal K. Malik** » 14 Jul 2009 23:41

Prime Minister Chief Guest at French Day

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 14 Jul 2009 23:43

Gerard wrote:France, India discuss defence, energy after parade
"France loves India," Sarkozy told guests on the lawn of the Elysee Palace after the talks.

More like france loves Indian money.

negi · Post by **negi** » 15 Jul 2009 04:35

From Hindu...PM said

Our own freedom struggle took inspiration from the French Revolution and guided the fathers of our Constitution.

How true is this statement ?

ps: please do not show public affection for MMS lest we be picked on DRONeA's MTI

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 15 Jul 2009 08:02

negi wrote:
Our own freedom struggle took inspiration from the French Revolution and guided the fathers of our Constitution.
How true is this statement ?

He will be saying the same in Uganda when he visits there next.
This is just like the wingtip to wingtip crapshit the chinese dish out to the pakis each time they visit.
Doesn't mean a thing.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Jul 2009 08:23

How true is this statement ?

As true as his statement that UK contributed to India. During I
UK rule share of Indian GDP fell from 20% to <2% in world economy in additions to the millions of lives lost in famine, World wars 1&2, and partition.

Some e-con-mistic PM we have {sigh}

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 15 Jul 2009 11:07

The French revloutionary cry of Liberte,Egalite and Fraternity have inspired many a freedom struggle worldwide.In fact,French colonies gave all citizens French citizenship.Today's relationship with France is based more upon mututal interests and respect for each other's culture and heritage.In France,India is a country that fascinates the French not for tigers and snakecharmers,but of its spiritual and philosophic richness and antiquity.A few weeks ago while in Paris,my French friends who visit India regularly,spoke warmly about their last meeting in India,with a well known Indian swamiji (not godman).They wanted me to arrange future meetings with such religious figures on their next visit.Another French friend,who heads a leading French MNC here,perhaps knows more of Indian philosophy than the average native!

There are loads of opportunities for the French in India in defence matters.France is seen here as a reliable,though expensive supplier of top drawer products.It should adopt the Russian approach of looking at India holistically,from a wider perspective and not just as a potential client for a deal or two.A long term relationship with India should require that India also gets tech and products at affordable prices,especially in the current scenario.A nuclear tech-defence tie-up would benefit both nations enormously and usher in decades of mutual cooperation richly benefiting both nations.The hiccups,suspicions and restraints that dog Indo-US affairs will not be present with in an Indo-French strategic tie-up.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 15 Jul 2009 11:39

Well I agree that apart from the Russians, the french have been the most even handed with India. India's traditionally socialistic way of doing things is a direct lift off from the way the ouiropeans did things - specifically the french and the brits. There have been strong trade relations for ever.
And who can but not remember french standing up to the americans for things they believed in, at times when it mattered to us - in the aftermath of Pokharan. The US actually had to come up with a statement specifically aimed at the french that the fact that the US had sanctioned a nation did not mean that the coast was clear for the french to move in.

bart · Post by **bart** » 15 Jul 2009 16:22

Relations with France are very important, mainly due to the relatively independent policies that she pursues.

We need them to balance out the Anglo-Saxon cabal where most of the countries like NZ, AUS, UK, CAN etc are blind camp followers of the US and up to no good anyway, they remind me of the hyenas in Lion King.

Japan and Germany are strong states but sadly crippled by the Anglo-Saxons in matters of foreign policy and defense. It remains to be seen if the current recession helps them to undo the aftermath of WWII or pulls them deeper into the embrace. Russia is more of an enigma and tends to be confused about its own identity, it is a an ally nevertheless but not one that we can blindly rely on.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 15 Jul 2009 16:48

Many French have been studying and appreciating India a long time..some quotes by French intellectuals through the ages:

If there is one place on the face of earth where all the dreams of living men have found a home from the very earliest days when man began the dream of existence, it is India!
~~~ Romaine Rolland (French writer)

I am convinced that everything has come down to us from the banks of the Ganges, - astronomy, astrology, metempsychosis,.. It is very important to note that some 2,500 years ago at the least Pythagoras went from Samos to the Ganges to learn geometry...But he would certainly not have undertaken such a strange journey had the reputation of the Brahmins' science not been long established in Europe...
~~~ Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire (French writer and philosopher)

is India that gave us the ingenious method of expressing all numbers by ten symbols, each receiving a value of position as well as an absolute value, a profound and important idea which appears so simple to us now that we ignore its true merit. But its very simplicity, the great ease which it has lent to all computations, puts our arithmetic in the first rank of useful inventions, and we shall appreciate the grandeur of this achievement the more when we remember that it escaped the genius of Archimedes and Appollnius, two of the greatest men produced by antiquity.

How glorious the epoch that then presented itself to my study and comprehension! I made tradition speak from the temple’s recess. I enquired of monuments and ruins, I questioned the Vedas whose pages count their existence by thousands of years and whence enquiring youth imbibed the science of life long before Thebes of the hundred gates or Babylon the great had traced our their foundations.

~~~ Louis-François Jacolliot (French diplomat & author)

And then India appears to me in all the living power of her originality – I traced her progress in the expansion of her enlightenment over the world – I saw her giving her laws, her customs, her morale, her religion to Egypt, to Persia, to Greece and Rome – I saw Jaiminy and Veda Vyasa precede Socrates and Plato, and Krishna, the son of the Virgin Devajani precede the son of the Virgin of Bethelehem.

~~~ Louis Francois Jacolliot (French diplomat & author)

Peaceful Indians,... did the rumor of your riches have to penetrate a clime in which artificial needs know no bounds? Soon, new foreigners reached your shores; inconvenient guests, everything they touched belonged to them.... If the British ...neglect any longer to enrich Europe's scholars with the Sanskrit scriptures...they will bear the shame of having sacrificed honor, probity, and humanity to the vile love for gold and money, without human knowledge having derived the least lustre, the least growth from their conquests.

~~~ Anquetil Duperron (French Orientalist)

The multiplicity of the manifestations of the Indian genius as well as their fundamental unity gives India the right to figure on the first rank in the history of civilized nations. Her civilization, spontaneous and original, unrolls itself in a continuous time across at least thirty centuries, without interruption, without deviation. Ceaselessly in contact with foreign elements which threatened to strangle her, she persevered victoriously in absorbing them, assimilating them and enriching herself with them. Thus she has seen the Greeks, the Scythians, the Afghans, the Mongols to pass before her eyes in succession and is regarding with indifference the Englishmen - confident to pursue under the accidence of the surface the normal course of her high destiny.

~~~ Sylvain Levi (French Orientalist)

Very few travelers have sought to understand India, very few have submitted to the labor necessary to a knowledge of her past splendor, looking only at the surface they have ever denied them and with an unreasoning confidence of criticism that made them the easy victims of ignorance.

~~~ Louis Francois Jacolliot (French diplomat & author)

India – The land of Vedas, the remarkable works contain not only religious ideas for a perfect life, but also facts which science has proved true. Electricity, radium, electronics, airship, all were known to the seers who founded the Vedas. ~~~ Wheeler Wilcox (American poet) Precious stones or durable materials - gold, silver, bronze, marble, onyx or granite - have been used by ancient people in an attempt to immortalize themselves. Not so however the ancient Vedic Aryans (Indians). They turned to what may seem the most volatile and insubstantial material of all - the spoken word ...The pyramids have been eroded by the desert wind, the marble broken by earthquakes, and the gold stolen by robbers, while the Veda is recited daily by an unbroken chain of generations, traveling like a great wave through the living substance of mind...

~~~ Dr.Jean LeMee (French author)

The motion of the stars calculated by the Hindus before some 4500 years vary not even a single minute from the tables of Cassine and Meyer (used in the 19-th century). The Indian tables give the same annual variation of the moon as the discovered by Tycho Brahe - a variation unknown to the school of Alexandria and also to the Arabs who followed the calculations of the school... The Hindu systems of astronomy are by far the oldest and that from which the Egyptians, Greek, Romans and - even the Jews derived from the Hindus their knowledge.

~~~Jean Sylvain Bailly (French astronomer)

Besides the discoverers of geometry and algebra, the constructors of human speech, the parents of philosophy, the primal expounders of religion, the adepts in psychological and physical science, how even the greatest of our biological and theologians seem dwarfed! Name of us any modern discovery, and we venture to say that Indian history need not long be searched before the prototype will be found on record. Here we are with the transit of science half accomplished, and all our Vedic ideas in process of readjustment to the theories of force correlation, natural selection, atomic polarity and evolution. And here, to mock our conceit, our apprehension, and our despair, we may read what Manu said, perhaps 10,000 years before the birth of Christ: The first germ of life was developed by water and heat. Water ascends towards the sky in vapors; from the sun it descends in rain, from the rains are born the plants, and from the plants, animals.

~~~ Louis Francois Jacolliot (French diplomat & author)