INS Arihant (ATV) Launch News and Discussion

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 26 Jul 2009 17:02

The project had to face initial hurdles like technology denial and miniaturising the nuclear reactor to fit the
110-metre long and 11-metre wide submarine, which has a surface displacement of 6,000 tonnes

specs are getting confirmed slowly -good good

Shankar · Post by **Shankar** » 26 Jul 2009 17:05

Type: nuclear-powered attack submarine
Displacement: 5,700-7,500 tons surfaced
7,900-9,100 tons submerged
7,900-9,500 tons submerged (Akula-II)
Length: 108.0 - 111.7 m (sources vary)
Beam: 13.5 m
Draught: 9.6 m
Propulsion: one 190 MW OK-650B pressurized water nuclear reactor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akula_class_submarine

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 26 Jul 2009 17:08

Shankar wrote:
specs are getting confirmed slowly -good good

Shnkarosky is right indeed

The sub is not baby" as it was told before

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 26 Jul 2009 17:19

A fitting tribute to our bravest on Vijay Diwas.

Jai Hind.

vavinash · Post by **vavinash** » 26 Jul 2009 17:48

A 8000-9000 tonn SSBN is still a baby boomer compared to the Triomphants, Vanguards, Ohios, Typhoons and Borei's. Isn't the chinese Delta-III rip off (094) about 8000-9000 tonne displacement? So why can't ours carry 12 K-X?

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 26 Jul 2009 17:50

Nitesh wrote:
Shankar wrote:
specs are getting confirmed slowly -good good
Shnkarosky is right indeed The sub is not baby" as it was told before

Shankorosky - The-Half-Blood-Russian

saptarishi · Post by **saptarishi** » 26 Jul 2009 17:54

shankar it is not all money guys -some thing more than that try buying an ohio/viginia reactor design from US and then...Shankarosky

one thing i will agree with shankarosky sir

is that no matter how many dollars 10 billion 20 billion we offer the americans,,they won't part away with sensitive tech like nuclear reactors,f-22, stealth,,,,,i have earlier poo-pooed shankar but,,russians are the only ones who have prooved to be our true friend...imagine usa leasing india virginia class submarine,,no chance but russia is leasing NERPA[akula],,,,but i still think for MMRCA india should't buy mig-35

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 Jul 2009 17:55

Pardon.

Borei - wiki claims - was started in the late 90s. So, how can an Indian effort - that started much earlier - be based on that sub - at all?

asbchakri · Post by **asbchakri** » 26 Jul 2009 18:03

NRao wrote:Pardon.

Borei - wiki claims - was started in the late 90s. So, how can an Indian effort - that started much earlier - be based on that sub - at all?

The keel of the fourth-generation Project 935 strategic missile submarine Yuri Dolgoruky was laid down at the Sevmash State Nuclear Ship-Building Center at Severodvinsk on 2 November 1996

So the keel laying was done in late 90's, i think the designing was done much later, not sure when though

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jul 2009 18:06

yeah I dont see anything at all why it cannot just be a charlie2 design with slight
enlargement. the missile section will obviously make it heavier.

all these Borei/Akula theories need a clear picture.

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 26 Jul 2009 18:13

Wow, submarines and indeed stealthy we still haven't got one good pic so far on the ATV.

SKrishna · Post by **SKrishna** » 26 Jul 2009 18:15

^^^^ IIRC I read somewhere that the INS Arihant was 11 years in construction. so by that date construction must have started in 1998 somewhats. So by that time Borei design could have been used to design it

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jul 2009 18:23

though no photos are released, I hope atleast the journos who accompanied will
be permitted to talk about it and confirm whether it looks like charlie, akula or borey.

else there was just no point in taking the journos along.

pkudva · Post by **pkudva** » 26 Jul 2009 18:27

Why are all bothered about the displacement , we all should be worried about the Nuclear missiles its carrying and the endurance along with the stealth capabilities.

Tons need not be bothered thats my feel atleast.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jul 2009 18:29

its time to lock this thread. can be reopened if they ever release a clear pic.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Jul 2009 18:29

tsriram wrote:
sanjaykumar wrote:Hope they can secure an auspicious coconut. It ought to be prestrained, preferably at npl, so mrs mms cracks the shell and nor the hull.

looking at the coconut in that picture, looks like prestrained indeed!

And Gagans depiction was spot on!

You can bet that coconut is being broken on a specially placed stone in front of a plaque. Definitely not against the sub itself.

Viv Sreenivasan · Post by **Viv Sreenivasan** » 26 Jul 2009 18:43

Well here is a video clearly showing the front of the sub.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vide ... 821738.cms

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Jul 2009 18:46

That is the Foxtrot museum submarine

http://www.frontlineonnet.com/stories/2 ... 510700.htm

The city also boasts a submarine museum, the only one of its kind in Asia. A submarine, INS Kursura, was converted into a museum after it was decommissioned.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Jul 2009 18:58

regarding the photo of MMS

In this photo released by India’s Defense Ministry, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh speaks during the launch ceremony of India’s first nuclear-powered submarine, INS Arihant at Vishakhapatnam in India, Sunday, July 26, 2009. A dry dock housing the 367 foot (112 meter) long submarine is partially seen in background. India on Sunday launched the first nuclear-powered submarine built on its soil, joining just five other countries that can design and construct such vessels, the prime minister’s office announced.

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 26 Jul 2009 19:11

Kanson wrote:
Shankar wrote:shankarosky is very happy - at last people are understanding the true depth of indo -russian strategic partnership started by Indira Gandhi and has stood the test of time for many decades
Sorry Shankarosky, as long as money flows in billions, the partnership is Startegic and even it could be elevated to higher level if you could pump more money.

With all the billions, added with increased pumping of money, OUR SO CALLED CURRENT STRATEGIC PARTNER will not give us even tec for George Washington Class SSBN...

-Nitin

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jul 2009 19:13

submarine outer hull is 3 inch thick ultra hard steel plate. a 1000 coconuts wont make any impression on it.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 26 Jul 2009 19:16

I think it is a very appropriate and intelligent step by the PM to thank Russia on record. This will give the right message to Americans (about the kind of cooperation India can have with other countries even in the area of STRATEGIC weapon systems ) and at the same time acknowledge the unprecedented assistance provided by Russia. The EUMA is not yet signed, we can expect GOI playing a hard bargain with Unkil.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Jul 2009 19:19

Arihant launched at Visakhapatnam

Ministry of Defence
http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=50976
16:18 IST

India’s first indigenously built nuclear propelled strategic submarine named ‘Arihant’ meaning ‘Destroyer of the Enemies’ was launched today, 26 Jul 09, at the Ship Building Center, Visakhapatnam. India has thus joined a select group of nations which have the technological capability to build and operate nuclear propelled submarines.

The launch ceremony was attended by the prime Minister. Dr. Manmohan Singh, accompanied by Smt. Gursharan Kaur, Raksha Mantri Shri.AK Antony, Chief minister of Andhra Pradesh Dr. YS Rajasekhar Reddy, Raksha Rajya Mantri Shri MM Pallam Raju, Minister of State for Human Resource Development, Smt. D Purandareswari, Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta and high ranking officials from the Navy, Department of Atomic Energy, and Defence Research and Development Organisation.

On this occasion, the Prime Minister congratulated the Director General of the ATV (Advanced Technology vehicle) Program Vice Admiral DSP Verma (Retd) and all personnel associated with it for achieving this historic milestone in the country’s defence preparedness. He noted that they had overcome several hurdles and barriers to enable the country to acquire self reliance in the most advanced areas of defence technology. The Prime Minister made a special mention of the cooperation extended by Russia.

The Prime Minister stated that the Government is fully committed to ensuring the Defence of our national interests and the protection of our territorial integrity. The Government would render all support to the constant modernization of our defence forces and to ensuring that they remain at the cutting edge of technology.

The Raksha Mantri conveyed to the gathering that the industrial capacity, Know-how and trained manpower that has been built up will sustain the construction of not only strategic platforms but will kick start a new age in ship construction in the country.

The ATV Program has spawned a new era in the field of cooperation between DRDO, BARC, Navy, PSUs and Private industry in which these organisations have synergized their efforts to achieve a significant technological and strategic milestone.

Following the launch, the submarine will undergo various trials before it is formally commissioned in the Indian Navy.

http://pib.nic.in/release/photogallary.asp

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 Jul 2009 19:20

The sub appears to be a modified Akula design from all appearances,with a Borei(?) flavour in the configuration of the missile silos are abaft the sail.Given the stated chronology of the project and the fact that Russia gave us tech/design knowhow from the project's inception,it is most likely that it contains much that is in common wiht the Akula classes,with an Akula 2/3 (say some) arriving later this year.This would make sense as one of the stated objectives in acquiring the Akula is to train crews for the Arihant class SSBN.The 4 missile silo confguration ,each carrying three missiles,is similar to the USN's Ohio class ,ex-SSBNs,now converted into SSGNs,with each of its 16 silos carrying several (8?)Tomahawk LR cruise missiles for land attack,a huge arsenal.With the Arihant we seem to be doing the exact oppisite,where we are putting into each silo,3 smaller 750+km range ballistic missiles,later on to house a 5,000km class ICBM.This would make the sub similar to early model USN SSBNs which had Polaris and Poseidon missiles.By comparison,Chinese ICBMs aboard their Jin class have a range of 8,000km.The Arihant design is very versatile,as the sub can swing from the role of an SSGN to that of an SSBN,given the type of missiles carried,once sufficient numbers have been built.Once the first ATV has been comissioned,later versions could have a longer hull with an extra section for more missile silos (8+),to give our SSBNs a goodly quantity of LR ICBMs with their MIRVs to deal with all future threats.

The Russian ambassador was reportedly the guest of honour at the function and around 170+Russians associated with the project were also present.This indicates the very close cooperation between Russia and India over the project and Russia deserves a huge debt of gratitude as it has given India technology for the most important defence project of the country,that of an SSBN ,the most survivable leg of the N-triad to safeguard our strategic deterrent.When we add to this the SU30MKI,Brahmos,MIG-29K,Talwar FFGs,T-90s,Gorshkov,the ATV project and the arriving Akula SSGN,we can clearly see that NO other nation on the planet has assisted India in its endeavour to build a strong armed forces and assist our indigenous efforts.Hats off to Russia and further Indo-Russian defence cooperation!

PS:I posted in the Intnl. naval thread details of China resurrecting an old Golf class SSB and modernising it .This is very intriguing,as China has developed new SSBNs of the Jin class,two in service and three more expected shortly,carrying an 8,000km ICBM.It also has an older Xia class SSBN still in service.China earlier used the Golf class for missile tests.However,there might be another explanation.Pak is now going to be in an inferior position vis-a-vis India,without having a third leg of the nuclear triad .Its conventional subs can launch missiles from their tubes,anti-ship Harpoons and Exocets,while India is modifying all its Kilos for the same purpose to launch Klub missiles.But neither of these types can carry a worthwhile N-warhead with a suitable range.Therefore,China might be assisting Pak to give it/lease it a Golf which even though has only 3 ballistic missiles,would give it the experience of an SSB.The PN also does not need as did China,to send any of its SSBNs far out to sea,preferring them to remain close to its shore bases,or in the bases themselves,where they can be heavily protected from attack.The Paki military will be desperate to try and find an answer to the Arihant and Akula and this might be the "poor man's" way of an interim solution,as it does not have the domestic N-tech for such an expensive and sophisticated project,plus as all its missiles are of Chinese and NoKo origin.Thus,China transferring a Golf + a missile to go with it is a distinct possibility to aid its chief proxy in the campaign against India.Watch this space!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Jul 2009 19:29

INS Arihant to take long time to become operational: Experts

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 26 Jul 2009 19:31

http://www.timesnow.tv/Nuclear-submarin ... urpg-2.cms

With US, Russia and China already fielding 5,000-km range SLBMs, the DRDO too has recently tested an SLBM based on the design of 3,500-km range Agni-III.

I had once read on wiki that India has secretly tested the A3SL version but did not gave due thought considering stuff was from wiki. But now times also saying the same...

-Nitin

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jul 2009 19:38

business standard:

L&T plays crucial role in building India's first nuclear-powered submarine
BS Reporter / Mumbai July 26, 2009, 19:03 IST

Engineering major Larsen & Toubro (L&T) today said it has played a critical role in building India’s first nuclear powered submarine, which was launched today.

Based on the design provided by the Navy and Defence Research and Development Establishment (DRDO), L&T’s submarine design centre carried out detailed engineering, using the latest 3D modeling and product data management software, said a press release.

"We feel very proud to have contributed significantly to realizing India’s dream of an indigenous nuclear submarine. Over the last four decades, L&T has played a crucial pioneering role in building India’s strategic sectors by successfully executing several technology-intensive and challenging projects," said A M Naik, chairman and managing director of L&T.

Building the first nuclear submarine was the latest milestone in L&T's association with the Indian Navy and the DRDO. L&T was looking forward to building more submarines and warships, he said.

In May, the company had entered into an agreement to float a joint venture (JV) with the largest defence equipment maker in Europe, EADS Defence and Security, to tap the Rs 50,000 crore Indian defence market. The JV is to design, develop and manufacture electronic warfare equipment, radars, military avionics and mobile systems for military requirements. L&T was planning to invest about Rs 2,000 crore over the next three years on defence-related business, Naik had said.

In addition to being the country’s first nuclear-powered indigenous submarine, the new vessel is also the largest and heaviest vessel ever built in India. L&T made the single largest contribution in the construction of this vessel, right from the stage of plate cutting to launch, said the release.

L&T also has co-operation agreements with three major nuclear reactor makers. These are Atomstroyexport (ASE), part of Rosatom of Russia, Toshiba Westinghouse of the US and Atomic Energy of Canada (AEC). The company is also in talks with General Electric Hitachi of the US and Areva of France.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 26 Jul 2009 20:03

deleted

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 26 Jul 2009 20:08

While I am no expert in the matter, developing a credible nucl. deterrent is not a simple matter, even the Russkies struggle. see related snippet below from Strat.

"The Russian Defense Ministry said July 16 that a July 15 test of the Russian Bulava (SS-NX-30) submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) was a failure, RIA Novosti reported. This marks the seventh failure (the Kremlin claims six) in 11 tests of a missile whose development has fallen years behind schedule, despite being a priority for the Kremlin.

.............

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jul 2009 20:35

afaik Ru still does not field a solid fueled naval ICBM?

the "Bark" failed 3/3 which is when moscow thermal instt got political backing over naval missile specialist Makeyev bureau and have gone 6-7/11 for "Bulava"
which is a naval version of topol. not a good record for something as key as
naval icbm and blocks the Borei program.

this for a country doing ICBMs since 1950s and fielded dozens of types and dozens of SSBNs.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Jul 2009 20:41

Hajaar badhaiyan to everyone.
Hajaar ways to read the same news story:

CNN: India launches nuclear submarine

AFP: India launches first nuclear-powered submarine

BBC: India launches nuclear submarine

Syracuse: India launches its 1st nuclear-powered submarine

Sydney Morning Herald: India's first nuclear sub is launched

Thai Indian: India Launches Nuclear Submarine: Manmohan Denies Aggressive Stance

AFP Pakistan: India inducts its first nuclear submarine with cooperation from Russia

Reuters: India launches its first nuclear-powered submarine

Xinuha: Wife of Indian PM launches home-made nuclear attack submarine

RIA Novosti: India launches nuclear-powered submarine

AHN: India Launches First Locally-Built Nuclear-Powered Sub

Gulf News: India launches first indigenous nuclear-powered submarine

UPI: India launches atomic submarine

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Jul 2009 20:50

sigh
20 pages, the sub is launched and we are none the wiser regarding what it looks like

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 26 Jul 2009 20:53

Gerard wrote:sigh
20 pages, the sub is launched and we are none the wiser regarding what it looks like

I agree... can some guru compile the almost confirmed erm... vital stats, and, if possible, provide a picture of the dulhan plzz

vardhank · Post by **vardhank** » 26 Jul 2009 21:00

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/india/atv.htm

i LOVE the india-bashing on this site... and i love even more the extent to which they got it wrong:

the ATV was purely a technology demonstration project which will never become an operational vessel and never be commissioned into service. Even externally, it won't in any way resemble an operational submarine, contrary to speculation in mainstream Indian newsmedia. By this view, a full-scale operational India-built SSBN is at least a decade away. Everything depends on the first unit successfully undergoing sea trials. This alone will take another five years and only if the trials are successful will the production-series SSBN be built.

and they actually listen to sengupta. awesome.

oh, cunning yindoos

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 26 Jul 2009 21:01

nrshah wrote:
Kanson wrote:Sorry Shankarosky, as long as money flows in billions, the partnership is Startegic and even it could be elevated to higher level if you could pump more money.
With all the billions, added with increased pumping of money, OUR SO CALLED CURRENT STRATEGIC PARTNER will not give us even tec for George Washington Class SSBN...

-Nitin

The reply was not meant to suggest one is preferred over other. I said, eveyone needs their pound of flesh, that includes Russians too. Ofcourse, we should show the appreciation,but it dont have to be blind love that Indians often used to fall for. If U insist to know what the so called strategic partner offered which is game changing like N-sub, first thing you can consider is Phalcon. There are other imp areas we are co-operating with them as with Russians. And this is not the time to discuss all these things, lets enjoy the show.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 Jul 2009 21:15

vardhank wrote:http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/india/atv.htm

i LOVE the india-bashing on this site... and i love even more the extent to which they got it wrong:

the ATV was purely a technology demonstration project which will never become an operational vessel and never be commissioned into service. Even externally, it won't in any way resemble an operational submarine, contrary to speculation in mainstream Indian newsmedia. By this view, a full-scale operational India-built SSBN is at least a decade away. Everything depends on the first unit successfully undergoing sea trials. This alone will take another five years and only if the trials are successful will the production-series SSBN be built.
and they actually listen to sengupta. awesome.

oh, cunning yindoos

I had come across just one article that had a similar leaning some time back.

The article stated that this sub would be a tech-demo. However, I do not recall it stating that it would not be operational.

It did go onto state that the next two subs would be much larger and therefore a LOT more potent.

Cannot locate that article any longer.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Jul 2009 21:17

People who have seen the sub today and got a good view of it describe it as a mean looking beast and these are knowledgeable people who know what they talk.

And the sub can be been described as more closer to Borei design than Charlie or Akula , something Headlines Today has confirmed , believe me guys this is the submarine and we need to be proud and happy for all who made this happen.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 26 Jul 2009 21:22

http://www.etv.co.in/e-tv-5/news_movie_ ... e_cat=News

Is the sub shown in video clip is Arihant or other one?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 26 Jul 2009 21:31

Kilo SSKs

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 26 Jul 2009 21:37

any pictures of the coconut out yet?