INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Aug 2009 17:52

Vishnu , the first image you see at the start of clip is what Arihant looks like generally speaking , but its not to scale.

Some one earlier did the posting before on this thread and screenshot of the ATV ,reactor etc from NDTV clips.

Thanks for posting it though

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 04 Aug 2009 17:56

Will such future subs all be alike? Or is there any scope for further evolution/improvements to the platform?

For example, would we ever field a pumpjet design in the future, and if so, when?

Someone said there's some Borei in this one - in what respect?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Aug 2009 18:22

Sanjay M wrote:Will such future subs all be alike? Or is there any scope for further evolution/improvements to the platform?

For example, would we ever field a pumpjet design in the future, and if so, when?

Someone said there's some Borei in this one - in what respect?

The party line seems to indicate that the next two will be "larger"!!

There seem to be two more after that .............. how much more different than either the Arihant or the next two is up for grabs.

Pumpjet? Too far out fro 2009 I would say.

Borei. Well, the less said the better. Need to move on - unless for entertainment value. (IMHO of course.)

Raj Malhotra · Post by **Raj Malhotra** » 04 Aug 2009 19:33

I think the ATV has following features:-

100MWt Reactor which will improve from say 80MW to 120MW over time

Novel design. The NDTV pic shows a snout with double hump, makes me feel that tear drop shape was droped for a bette and more modern dolphin shape.

Double Hull, Indian Sonars (presence of side arrays & towed arrays is unknown)

My guess of submerged displacement continues to be 9-10,000 tons. Lot of internal equipment may be from Akula and that is why ambassador called it akula

Max submerged speed should be around 24kt (note French SSN also have this speed only)

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 04 Aug 2009 21:28

KiranM wrote:My 2 cents to the conjectures here.

INS Arihant is more like a prototype or pilot plant platform. Also, it is designed to serve a minimal sea based deterrant until larger and better platforms hit the sea.

In the next 15 years when threat perceptions change and on availabilty of larger and more capable platforms, IN may think of turning Arihant into a maritime version of Samyukta.

Regards,
Kiran

My 2 cents again. On further thoughts, I have changed my perception. India may retain a cross breed Arihant class along with the well endowed SSBN class.

The Chinese response to India's ABM will be to increase the quality and quantity of BMs. However, if we achieve economics of maintaining ABM system less expensive compared to BM deterrence, it will cause deterrence imbalance in India's favour. To balance, China will have no option but to resort to a missile shield of their own.

Moreover, it is more digestible to the 'International Community' for China transferring ABM to Pakistan than BM and nukes.

In this backdrop, a fat, TFTA SSBN firing many missiles from IOR will be comparatively less effective. This calls for another arrow in our quiver, in the form of a lean, SDRE sub firing a few missiles in depressed trajectories from South China Sea.

Regards,
Kiran

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 04 Aug 2009 22:02

News Analysis: India's launch of nuke submarine aims at stronger deterrent capability

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 04 Aug 2009 22:09

The full truth about a half boat that powers Arihant

India's nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant uses the compact pressurised water reactor -- also called a half boat -- technology

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 05 Aug 2009 00:27

Gerard wrote:The full truth about a half boat that powers Arihant
India's nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant uses the compact pressurised water reactor -- also called a half boat -- technology

hahah .. Funny!! thanks for posting

Half-boat that powers the full boat. The half boat is in turn powered by the quarter boat and so on..

The submarines can also reach depths of about 1,000m (Russian subs are said to reach depths of 1,200m) and have strike range of 8,000 to 10,000 m.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 05 Aug 2009 01:14

Gerard wrote:The full truth about a half boat that powers Arihant
India's nuclear-powered submarine INS Arihant uses the compact pressurised water reactor -- also called a half boat -- technology

This is new low for even DDMs!

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 05 Aug 2009 01:20

The next copy in a vernacular press will read

India is the only country in the world to have developed One by two Nuke submarine.

(It is common to order one by two chai or coffee, to mean one cup of coffee/chai will be shared by two people, so bring an empty cup to share. In my days at Aplha restaurant near secbad station "Ek chai ek empty" would be yelled/shouted by the server or bearer)

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 05 Aug 2009 01:56

Are submarines Neptune's nightmare?

bart · Post by **bart** » 05 Aug 2009 05:52

John Snow wrote:The next copy in a vernacular press will read

India is the only country in the world to have developed One by two Nuke submarine.

(It is common to order one by two chai or coffee, to mean one cup of coffee/chai will be shared by two people, so bring an empty cup to share. In my days at Aplha restaurant near secbad station "Ek chai ek empty" would be yelled/shouted by the server or bearer)

Also known as 'cutting' chai. So we can be the first developers of the 'cutting submarine'.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 05 Aug 2009 07:26

I think DDM is a thought out psyops from GoI.

Got to be.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Aug 2009 07:42

Yet another drawing. Based on the NDTV pic.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 05 Aug 2009 07:51

Do u guys truly believe half naked SDRE build a SSBN?

A amreki (permission)
R Russian (design)
I israili (electonics)
H Han (brc) (steel)
A anfl-Saxon (welding)
N north Korea (nuke reactor)
T Bhakistani/TSP (justification)

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Aug 2009 09:21

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Aug 2009 09:31

awesome ! but I think the L/D ratio is less than the 10:1 of arihant.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 05 Aug 2009 09:48

filtered and enlarged NDTV video shots..

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 05 Aug 2009 09:53

Rahul M wrote:awesome ! but I think the L/D ratio is less than the 10:1 of arihant.

Then its a strut not a column

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Aug 2009 10:15

RamaY wrote:Do u guys truly believe half naked SDRE build a SSBN?

A amreki (permission)
R Russian (design)
I israili (electonics)
H Han (brc) (steel)
A anfl-Saxon (welding)
N north Korea (nuke reactor)
T Bhakistani/TSP (justification)

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 05 Aug 2009 10:26

[quote="dinesha"]filtered and enlarged NDTV video shots..

I don't think this is anything related to Arihant. I recall seeing a very similar (if not same) picture in some Reader's Digest compendium book years ago - probably a drawing loosely based on the GW/Ethan Allen class Polaris subs.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 05 Aug 2009 10:34

you mean Ethan Allen furnished the Sub ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Aug 2009 11:39

the torpedo tubes usually above the cylindrical sonar (white area) not the other way around is your graphic.
thats the layout in Kilo and Akula atleast.

on other hand Arihant torpedo room could be at bottom and
sonar on top. no rules which say it cannot be done.

given its future role as a SSGN when the real SSBNs come
online, this class needs a massive torpedo room with a store of 30-40 ASMs and heavy torpedoes.

should be able to attack alone, annihilate task forces and
spring between attack positions to evade hunters.

desi-seawolf-mki

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 05 Aug 2009 18:03

John Snow wrote:you mean Ethan Allen furnished the Sub ?

I'm sure they'd love to "furnish" the sub with a few things:

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3919

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 06 Aug 2009 07:57

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/stor ... GntEw72ik=

Guarding India from sea

The Arihant is a stupendous industrial feat, as complex and larger than a moon probe, where 20,000 components are put together to fine tolerance, that must stand up to 50 times the atmospheric pressure. More than engineering itself, it’s a question of the culture of submarine building and submarining, where everything is double-checked and people never begin sentences with ‘I guess…’ The Indian decision to build both submarine and missiles together has obviously taken the submarine ahead of the missile, with the K-15 missiles limited in range to 750 km. These will have to be upgraded later to enable them to operate much farther away from the target, and therefore preserve the secrecy of movement. A closer patrol or operating area would be an inducement for the targeted country to detect or at least to harass the SSBN. This would be a totally unwanted condition that Soviet submarines suffered from during the Cold War, as they were shadowed by American SSNs.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 06 Aug 2009 08:29

Could anyone post details of the Deep Sea rescue capabilities of the IN(apart from that presented by INS Nireekshak). The last that I am aware of and from google is that IN signed a contract with USN so that their DSRVs could be used if needed. Apart from this there was a contract that was finalised or being finalised with Canada for DSRVs. In general, how are the bay of bengal and arabian seas in terms of roughness, are they bad/worse/better than the arctic or the atlantic oceans?

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 06 Aug 2009 08:37

Who's this guy?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Aug 2009 08:53

the DSRV deal is like the MRCA or bofors - as old as BR.

we desperately need them and Arihant and Kilos being Russian I cant understand why
Ru DSRVs are not good enough ? just the other day Putin saar descended to the bottom
of Baikal lake in a bathysphere, so such techs are available in Rus for sure.

I dunno if its just the desire for 22" HD touch panels in western models or something
more value add that keeps us perenially on the hook wrt DSRV.

we'd better pull our pants up on this front.

munna · Post by **munna** » 06 Aug 2009 09:05

Sanjay M wrote:Who's this guy?

This young chap in all probability is Raja young MSFS grad from Georgetown Uni. in DC, he is a knowledgeable chap and is active in the India circles of capital.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 06 Aug 2009 11:33

That was for Voice of America, and in US as you can see the TARP star (in Pink Blouse/skirt) Wachovia bank in the back ground.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 06 Aug 2009 12:34

Raja Karthikeya. Was in the NDA, broke his collarbone, dropped out and did his graduation and MBA from a very prestigious institute, mastermind india participant in 2001 on BBC and a damm decent kid who worked for some time in my company and having taken up opportunities and challenges in life very few would have dared.

He is an amateur ham radio operator. Flew into Bhuj in 2001 and Car Nicobar in 2004 with the IAF to assist relief operations to set up communications. One of very few civilians who have self trained themselves in disaster management and having the initiative to take charge when the occasion demands for it. The Union Government specially thanked him after 2004. And he was probably 25 years old then.

Outlook covering Raja - http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?229712

Got bored with software and did his MSFS at Georgetown. (Sorry - Its MSFS, not PhD as written earlier. My mistake here, corrected later)

Contrast that with the Prasun Sengupta and Somnath types...

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 06 Aug 2009 19:09

First picture of Arihant? from http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/08/arihant.html

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 707909.jpg

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 06 Aug 2009 19:14

Exclusive INS Arihant photo

This is the first picture of India’s indigenously built nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine the INS Arihant. The submarine was launched at the Naval Dockyard Visakhapatnam on July 26.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 Aug 2009 19:34

Doesnt its surface look.... rubbery?

Seems like they are adding a new dimension to the term anechoic tiles.

jerry · Post by **jerry** » 06 Aug 2009 20:00

Sanku wrote: Doesnt its surface look.... rubbery?
Seems like they are adding a new dimension to the term anechoic tiles.

If i am not mistaken somebody had posted oens ago a news link of the company in coimbatore or vizag who does those rubber tiles for the sub if someone can fish out the article again, would be a good read!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Aug 2009 20:27

The very broad sail of Arihant indicates to me it has an integrated Escape Pod

AshokS · Post by **AshokS** » 06 Aug 2009 20:29

Clearly this has been photoshopped....

we must learn from the panda...they photoshop the machine and yet we photoshop the surroundings...

SDRE onlee..wot to doo saar?

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 06 Aug 2009 20:37

AshokS wrote: photoshop the surroundings...

My guess is someone in the navy cleared the photo to be published - but they didnt want the time and date to be identified lest some babu does a u turn and wanted to go after the chaps who cleared it. so surroundings photoshopped. hard to pinpoint time and date

negi · Post by **negi** » 06 Aug 2009 20:53

That escape pod pic is genuine is that Akula btw ? ; as for Arihant looks good pretty smooth and slick finish.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 06 Aug 2009 21:04

Austin wrote:The very broad sail of Arihant indicates to me it has an integrated Escape Pod

The sail thicknees seems to be about 100 - 150 mm.

Experts please correct me

DDMs, you may also "correct" me

K