What is the effect of Jaswant Singh being expelled

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 21 Aug 2009 09:13

Meanwhile Prabhu Chawla says JS had to be expelled because Shiv Sena was furious and because Congress was planning on attacking Modi using Patel.

Link

Also, in Hindustan Times -

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi ordered a ban on the book after he was told that the Opposition Congress was planning a massive agitation on the issue.

The 1999 hijack episode was a turning point. A divided Vajpayee cabinet had to agree on Singh escorting three jihadi terrorists in an official aircraft to Kandahar in Aghanistan, where they were released in exchange for passengers of the hijacked Indian Airlines plane.

Singh and Advani never agreed on the issue and their accounts of the episode remained a sore point but their differences remained under a lid.

Link

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 21 Aug 2009 09:17

Ok its my turn to swing my arm and bowl a off spinner or two.
I)
First thing First LKg is LKg.

More bluster and good at building blunders.

He is nationlist and corrupt to the c(r)ore. He is one neta who should have been tata bye bye long ago.
He was very impatient maid in waiting (chambers) when Akhand was PM, probably was counting on ABV to go.
He was very insecure against the gains of yashwant and jaswant. Used his proxy bombay nationislt goon Promod maha(bha)jan to counter the Y&S combo ( Yeswant & Jeswant).
He admitted his own love of Jinnah when he went to karachi his birth place so did Akhand when he stood in front of errect Minar- e-pakistan. Samhjauta express brought Akhand dukh as LKg wished.

Lkg was at cross with Brajesh Misra and go back and see LKg was rash to brajesh.

Agree with Shiv garu that he successfully converted home ministry problem to foreign ministry in beween he also wanted Aviation ministry also to be villan. His stock went up as loh purush when he was claimbing the staies of Spincity babus building with a fat file tied with small red thread and fools cap paper Nota Bena all over again tied with small red thread and a aluminium punch.

Lkg was the biggest advertisement for the fax machine, with his faxrs going to ISI head quarters where they had the fax machie with out paper as US aid was promised and not yet materialised. By like the Dalmation in front of the gramaphone ( of RCS victor vintage) he was peering into the fax machine which was not connected to telephone line in the wall.

LKg promised a Kora kagaz about ISI but remained Kora hi rehgaya ( mera jivan kora kaagaz is his favorite as his chances of becoming PM is zich now)

LKg said he will get Q out of top deal (Hindi Howitzer) with Bofors but the whole thing became known as Bozo affair as Q was thumbing his nose like Joker in Baatman.

LKg never will graduate to be PM alas, the man from Karachi.

Jaswant: More famous as jasso mithaiwala, and well known for his quantum contribution to India's diplomacy azmuthal strategy. He well spoken but least understood. He is well written but bad results always follow.
He almost outed MMS but to his credit MMS let everything go past his head which is his forte and reason for being Prime material for the PM post, the rasputin V George and italians local cardinals who converge there to kneel down know that.
Jassoo to his credit did respond "Call to Honor" with a publication to stake his calim with RSS feed, but Really Simple syndication did not open the doors. His marathon chai biscoot sessions with uncles dalmot really was like vijay amrithraj volleying into semifinals, the Dalmot was so frustrated at avaricious appetite of jasso for the sessions with only empty cups of chai and dalmot in kilos consumed to show in the end. This is his seminal contribution to the art of diplomacy,smoe say he stole the idea from the title of the book 'Eats. Shoots and Leaves'.
Sad thing is that a man who served dalmot volley after volley and drove dalmot to insanity, is now wilting to the pressures of volleys from BJP on which LKgs hold is in famously last thores!
All in all jassoo is sweet person.

Trying to start a new party, you need money honey, and at his age his own SHQ will stage a mutiny and talks with her will be with out chai paani let alone biscoots and samosa.

For LKg building a Ram mandir in his compound is the best anti dote to depression and writing a book, "Why I ramed Babri as a revenge against frustration of not being PM". Devided He stood a chance thought he, how mistakne was he for life is $itch said Mel Brookes movie.

Let the new and young goons bring a new light to the indian politics, be it in BJP Congress Samajwadi or Bahu Jan party, even Bhojan Sangh is fine, after all Roti kapada makaan is long over due.
Jai Hind.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 21 Aug 2009 09:39

Ok I stand vindicated.

Look here
***

Advani failed to return favour: Jaswant
TNN 21 August 2009, 07:26am IST
Print Email Discuss Bookmark/Share Save Comment Text Size: |

NEW DELHI: Expelled BJP leader Jaswant Singh targetted L K Advani on his return to Delhi on Thursday, accusing the latter of not returning the
favour done by him when the former deputy PM had been embroiled in the "Jinnah-was-secular" controversy.

Jaswant denied he had accepted the BJP resolution setting out its position on the Muslim League leader. Asked about his role when the Advani controversy broke out, he said, "I never subscribed to the June 10, 2005, resolution of the party. Even then I had stood by Advani and against the treatment meted out to Lalji. I stood up for Advani's right to say what he did."

Asked whether he felt Advani had "failed to return the favour" and defend him at the meeting of the parliamentary board in Shimla, Jaswant told reporters, "My grandfather had told me never remember a favour you have done and never forget a favour done to you." The leader sounded somewhat downcast as perhaps the event began to sink in.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Aug 2009 09:42

A.Lincoln was a lawyer for the Railroad industry that was booming at that time. The rail road companies were not really nice guys - they did what they had to do be in business. Also he his supposed to have used the railroad extensively for his election campaigns as well. Point being.....let us not deify leaders.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 21 Aug 2009 09:49

Thats why time for
New young Goons to come to the resuce and loot the country. Time for a small change to graduate into big league. There are billions at stake if not billion peoples life. no?

AbhishekD · Post by **AbhishekD** » 21 Aug 2009 09:55

A.Lincoln was a lawyer for the Railroad industry that was booming at that time. The rail road companies were not really nice guys - they did what they had to do be in business. Also he his supposed to have used the railroad extensively for his election campaigns as well. Point being.....let us not deify leaders.
A.Lincoln was a lawyer for the Railroad industry that was booming at that time. The rail road companies were not really nice guys - they did what they had to do be in business. Also he his supposed to have used the railroad extensively for his election campaigns as well. Point being.....let us not deify leaders.

Whats the point. A Lincoln stood up. MKG, Patel and Nehru did not. History is very brutal. In the end India was partitioned and America was not. A Lincoln saved America and that was what Congress leaders needed to do.

sukhdeo · Post by **sukhdeo** » 21 Aug 2009 10:10

AbhishekD wrote:
A.Lincoln was a lawyer for the Railroad industry that was booming at that time. The rail road companies were not really nice guys - they did what they had to do be in business. Also he his supposed to have used the railroad extensively for his election campaigns as well. Point being.....let us not deify leaders.
A.Lincoln was a lawyer for the Railroad industry that was booming at that time. The rail road companies were not really nice guys - they did what they had to do be in business. Also he his supposed to have used the railroad extensively for his election campaigns as well. Point being.....let us not deify leaders.
Whats the point. A Lincoln stood up. MKG, Patel and Nehru did not. History is very brutal. In the end India was partitioned and America was not. A Lincoln saved America and that was what Congress leaders needed to do.

Lincoln may have saved America, but can you deny that he used the railroads for campaigning. Last time I checked, at least MKG, Patel and Nehru did not lawyer for the American railroads! AMERICAN RAILROADS, for crying out loud

AbhishekD · Post by **AbhishekD** » 21 Aug 2009 10:36

Whats the point you are making Suhkdeo. Does it matter that he was a lawyer for some Railroad. Finaling he was able to outlaw slavery and unite America on that issue.

Anyways the point is JS pointed out something very obvious and had to pay because morons in BJP are fighting their petty battles among themselves instead of fighting the battles for the people. Petty people fight petty battles and big people fight big battle.

LKA has proved himself to be a petty politician who is unable to think big and inspire his organization and that is how people will identify him

sukhdeo · Post by **sukhdeo** » 21 Aug 2009 10:39

AbhishekD wrote:Whats the point you are making Suhkdeo. Does it matter that he was a lawyer for some Railroad. Finaling he was able to outlaw slavery and unite America on that issue.

Anyways the point is JS pointed out something very obvious and had to pay because morons in BJP are fighting their petty battles among themselves instead of fighting the battles for the people. Petty people fight petty battles and big people fight big battle.

LKA has proved himself to be a petty politician who is unable to think big and inspire his organization and that is how people will identify him

Please lighten up and see the humor of my statement. I am on your side.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Aug 2009 10:58

The point is, again, let us not deify leaders and let us not demonize them too. Too much praise or vilification is a human trait. JLN, SP, Jinnah, MKG ithyadi did what they had to do because of the time in which they lived bound by their situation. While it is desirable (if not essential) to have leaders with vision, vision is always better on hindsight. All the past leaders had pluses and minuses.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 11:03

If the answer is, as some on BRF have stated, that he wanted to symbolize that he as a minister was willing to put his life on the line, well, this wasnt a good way to show it. Was it really so hard for anyone in the government or the party to anticipate and visualize how it would look and what message it would actually send ? It wasnt as if hijacking is not a common occurence and I have never heard of any high level official from any other country going to meet with the hijackers, at least it is not a common occurance.

An interesting observation.

Could it be his Army background that he put his life on line to show that he is ready to lead from the front?

On the issue of no high level emissary of other countries going to dialogue with hijackers does not mean someone cannot do so and be the first!!

Vajpayee was the first PM who went to a hostile country in a bus and not an aircraft!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 11:06

ramana wrote:RayC. The modern BJP is the outgrowth of the old Janata Party of 1977 into which the following for our discussion merged - Jana Sangh, Swatantra Party. These were the two right of center parties of the 70s. Of these the former had its core supporters who were really right of the merged party and viewed all others with distrust. What we are seeing is the disenchantment of the groups that came together to form the BJP. The last two elections have caused a rethink and what we see is the churning. The current leadership feels it can retain its core support if it gets rid of its elements they dont trust. However they dotn understand the core support goes to those who can deliver on the core interests.

Thanks.

This is a view I was not too familiar with.

Where can I get more information about why and how BJP transformed from the JS?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 11:09

We have a penchant to deify some leaders out of proportion, but what disturbs me is to raise them to a super-human level, a sort of a ‘divine’ being.

Rahul Mehta · Post by **Rahul Mehta** » 21 Aug 2009 11:22

First lets see why BJP leaders were forced to expel JS without giving him even him a show cause notice.

HT, IE, ToI and Hindu (all MNC/Christianist/Saud agents) are not mentioning it, but rumor mill says that LKA, Rajnath etc got over 10000 calls, emails, SMS etc from BJP workers demanding immediate expulsion of JS. My local rumor mill says that local Ahmedabad RSS units had threatened that if JS is not expelled, they would burn effigies of ALL BJP leaders in public. RSS workers are fed of anti-Hinduvaad and p-sec-ism of many leaders like LKA, Jetley, Jassu, Yashwant, Sushma and Shourie. They are also fed with MNC Bhakti of these leaders. The Jinha praising from JS was the last straw on camel's back. Enough was enough - they said and they now wanted some action against these p-sec.

Rumor mill says that RSS workers now openly refer to JS as Haaji JS (just as ABV is called as Haaji Vajpayee or Jajpayee, and LKA is called as Haaji Advani or Hadvani).

-----

If one believes the rumor mills, and I find them more reliable than ToI, IE, HT, Hindu, sources, links etc, then expulsion of JS was due to internal campaign of grassroot workers. If this is true, BJP workers have shown some spine, and this is a welcome change.

But chances are high that Saud/Christianists will throw huge money inside BJP and work for rehabilitation of JS back into BJP. I think they will be successful, as workers inside BJP do not have levers to stop JS from entering again. I hope BJP workers now focus on creating means to control their leaders so that the leaders who are selling out - such as LKA, JS, Yashwant, Arun, Arun, Sushma etc can be downsized or expelled.

------

Btw, Bal Thackrey made a right statement, that "If Jinha was secular, then LKA should has stayed in Pakistan". I would extend that statement and say "If Jinha was secular, then JS and LKA should now move to Pakistan".

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 21 Aug 2009 11:38

ray saab I am at a loss as to how you did not know the pedigree of the BJP?

Janasangh + Swatantra party ( remember Piloo Modi I am CIA fame to Loksabha during IG times)

for the janasangh, this ABV vs LKg for a brief period, then Lkg vs Jassoo M is not new

ABV vs Balraj Madhok had better fire works than sivakasi or a tracer shot might light up.

Mino Masani, Piloo Modi, Balraj Madhok, George kaka, Madhu Danadvate all these guys were some way or other connected to labour unions,like Bharatiya Mazdoor sangh, to counter CPI, CPM unions and INTUC of congress.

Atleast those guys were articulate came to Loksabha to debate with facts having done their home work. They would make the respective minister shiver to come to parliament..

Oh those days...
Listening to AIR today in parlaiment was like watching CSPAN...
Chakra pani, melville de mellow etc reading the proceedings and news...
Blitz , Current Rk Karnjia, FD Karaka editorials...

Oh by the way Balraj Madhok was expelled too at the instigation of ABV
**
I just talked to uncle google
read here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balraj_Madhok

He was born in Skardu wow.
*******
this is what I mean

Acharya J.B. Kriplani and his wife Sucheta Kriplani were both Members of the Lok Sabha. While he was in the Socialist Party, Sucheta Kriplani was a Congress Member. Once when a member drew the attention of Acharya Kriplani to the fact that he was criticising the Congress party which had attracted his own wife, the quick-witted Acharya retorted: "All these years I thought Congressmen were stupid fools. I never knew they were gangsters too who ran away with others’ wives".

Once Giani Zail Singh, as Home Minister, was piloting a Bill in the Rajya Sabha. Piloo Mody, a member of the House, had participated in the debate. While replying to the debate, Gianiji referring to Piloo Mody’s comments on the Bill, stated in Hindi: "Piloo Mody to bade seasonal member hain". The whole House started laughing. Another minister sitting next to Gianiji, whispered to him to say that the word is "seasoned" and not "seasonal". Thereupon Gianiji again said: "Mujhe to angrezi thodi aati hai. Inko to inki biwi ne angrezi padhai hai".

Piloo Mody thumped his desk and raised a point of order. The whole House was looking at Piloo Mody. The Deputy Chairman asked: "What is your point of order?" Piloo Mody stated: "Gianiji is grossly misinformed. My wife did not teach me English. I taught her English." The whole House burst into laughter once again. Piloo Mody’s wife was a Swiss.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 12:03

I am at a loss as to how you did not know the pedigree of the BJP?

Thanks.

I am aware of some of the issues that you have highlighted.

What I was interested in was some link that would show how and why and the compulsions that brought the JS and the others on the same platform.

Those jokes of the Parliament of those days were superb.

I could not stop laughing!

sukhdeo · Post by **sukhdeo** » 21 Aug 2009 12:18

RayC wrote:
If the answer is, as some on BRF have stated, that he wanted to symbolize that he as a minister was willing to put his life on the line, well, this wasnt a good way to show it. Was it really so hard for anyone in the government or the party to anticipate and visualize how it would look and what message it would actually send ? It wasnt as if hijacking is not a common occurence and I have never heard of any high level official from any other country going to meet with the hijackers, at least it is not a common occurance.
An interesting observation.

Could it be his Army background that he put his life on line to show that he is ready to lead from the front?

On the issue of no high level emissary of other countries going to dialogue with hijackers does not mean someone cannot do so and be the first!!

Vajpayee was the first PM who went to a hostile country in a bus and not an aircraft!

Quite right, Sir. While no one else does it, we Indians throw trash and urinate right outside our neighbor's house routinely. Simply because no one else does it is no reason for us not to do it. Environmentally speaking, its not damaging, its mostly biodegradable anyway, with the exception of plastic bags, which create an exclusively Indian look strewn around the perimeter of the neighbor's house. In a society with scarcity such as ours, what better than to give our neighbor a gift of great fertilizer. Why waste ?

I routinely ask my Western and western educated friends to turn off their western lense and switch on their Indian thinking so that they can appreciate our Indian culture of today. After all, in the West, they bury their waste in huge landfills. How inefficient.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Aug 2009 12:28

I suggest that this thread be merged with the book one, the same issues are being discussed there too.

BJP has donea both itself and JS a great favor by this expulsion. Any one stopped to think of that?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 12:35

Sanku wrote:I suggest that this thread be merged with the book one, the same issues are being discussed there too.

BJP has donea both itself and JS a great favor by this expulsion. Any one stopped to think of that?

It is being discussed.

The book thread was to discuss the books and not politics, since the historical perspectives were the focus, but then it has gone into politics too.

Archan is looking into it.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Aug 2009 12:41

JwalaMukhi wrote:
narayanan wrote: Did Modi give the precise reason why Guj govt was banning the book?
.
For now: Sardar Patel references seems to have caught the goat of many.
http://news.rediff.com/report/2009/aug/ ... s-modi.htm
The Gujarat government, which banned Jaswant Singh's [ Images ] controversial book on Jinnah alleging it was an attempt to tarnish the image of Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, has in its notification described it as "highly objectionable and against national interest".
The notification by the home department, a copy of which is with the PTI, does not mention the name of Sardar Patel regarding whom the book has some "defamatory references."
While banning the 600-page 'Jinnah-India, Partition, Independence' yesterday, the state government had claimed that it (book) was an attempt to tarnish the image of country's first Home Minister Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel.

Yesterday, a senior minister of the government said, "The book has been banned because it contains defamatory references regarding Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, who is considered the architect of the modern India.

' Jaswant's rejoinder: Sardar Patel banned RSS, why is he core to BJP? ’

“I don’t know which part of the core belief has been demolished. Patel, what is so core about him? Patel was the first one to ban the RSS and imprison RSS workers (in February 1948). But he did not ban the Muslim League,” Singh said.

Senior BJP leader Arun Jaitley had said in Shimla earlier in the day that “to denigrate Sardar Patel goes against the national consensus and the party’s core beliefs”.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 21 Aug 2009 12:47

The book is about politics of yesterday
The expulsion is politcs of today
The ban on the book is political
The person is a politician
The writings impact todays perception of yesterdays doings.
The writing will shape tomorrows political talk.
The political talk about the book will boost sales
The book politics will employ the talk shows.
The book will go pages on on and on in the BRF
The book will inspire me to fill pages of this thread.

Everything is political no?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Aug 2009 12:50

John Snow wrote: Everything is political no?

Ah Snow ji, some times you do let slip in that illuminating insight in the middle of "I am always joking, never take me seriously" posts.

One has to be a little nimble on the foot to catch your spins though

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 12:52

RayC wrote:
sukhdeo wrote:
Quite right, Sir. While no one else does it, we Indians throw trash and urinate right outside our neighbor's house routinely. Simply because no one else does it is no reason for us not to do it. Environmentally speaking, its not damaging, its mostly biodegradable anyway, with the exception of plastic bags, which create an exclusively Indian look strewn around the perimeter of the neighbor's house. In a society with scarcity such as ours, what better than to give our neighbor a gift of great fertilizer. Why waste ?

I routinely ask my Western and western educated friends to turn off their western lense and switch on their Indian thinking so that they can appreciate our Indian culture of today. After all, in the West, they bury their waste in huge landfills. How inefficient.

True.

Sadly I am an Indian who does not urinate on the neighbour's doorstep. Thus, I am not an Indian, right? Is urinating in public a symbol of Indian-ism?

I am 'western' educated, born in a inter caste family, and in a family with international mix including blacks, Jews etc, if it does not hurt you sensibilities, Oriental and Occidentals and with a diverse religious mix. In addition, I have lived the major part of my life with what you would call 'Dalits', and then in a multi religious and multi ethnic mix. Therefore, I don't have a tunnel vision to life.

I am proud of the Indian culture, history and heritage. I am also a nationalist and also, my childhood and profession has allowed me to see the goodness that is India. I daresay that you can call me not a nationalist and a proud Indian since I have served the nation in my humble way and put my life in harm's way ( a cute saying of Bush and American for merely doing one's duty and ensuring that one fulfils his obligation to his nation)
as my ancestors did!

And between you and me, I don't care what foreigners think of us or the various rabid religious groups of India thinks of what is there definition of being Indians!

I am an Indian, always and every time!

Unfortunately, I am not an Indian who is not ready to accept India with all its warts! We must remove these warts without being aggressive, belligerent and obnoxious!

Being tolerant to ambiguity is not the birthright of defied leader of our country who are raised to the divine level.

Even normal and humble Indians have that right!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 13:04

Lest I am mistaken to be a Congress hack, I must say that would be wrong an assessment.

I am a nationalist and a rationalist.

If Arun Jaitly feels Sardar Patel was divine and beyond having feet of clay as all human beings have, then let him say so.

Let us put his statues as idols in temples in his honour.

I always appreciated this man's articulate and precise analysis of political issues, but then the BJP debacle seems to have made him leave a hold of his rationale thinking of yore!

It is true that Sardar Patel put things in place to make what is India today, but then he is no God. Or is he?

I have immense parochial (if you will) respect for Netaji Subash Bose. However, he is no God for me! He also made errors. Or didn't he?

My family had to lose their home and hearth because of Jinnah, Nehru and Gandhi and even old Patel!

So, are they great visionaries and has divinity being bestowed on them so much so we are afraid to analyse them and their compulsions?

Good old Father of the nation Mahatma Gandhi had shouted earlier "partition on my dead body"
Over my Dead Body

also

Over Gandhi's dead body

What happened?

Many innocents dies for the personal ambitions of these men. Are their personal ambition greater than the lives that were lost? Therefore, are they great heroes? Maybe to those who were not affected and their brood live happily ever after. But what about those who lost their families and friends and their livelihood and lands to satiate the ambitions and personal egos of these defied and divine gentlemen?

How come, we lost our home and hearth even when he was alive and kicking and our people were dead?

Let's get pragmatic!!

Are these divine jokes of India i.e. Gandhi and Nehru fair?

The Punjabi refugees got compensation and each one claimed that they had land as big as west Pakistan and we Bengalees were under Evacuee Properties Act?

Bengalis second class Indian

The problem is that India is only of the North Indians and West Indians!

The trouble with most of you is that you remind me of the Beatles song - Tell me what you see now, what you see is me

If you let me take your heart I will prove to you,
We will never be apart if I'm part of you.
Open up your eyes now, tell me what you see.
It is no surprise now, what you see is me.

But then you are so blind and damned self centred!!

I respect Patel since he saved us from losing more area but then he is no God to me.

Gandhi pretended to be a sage and like Nehru he was interested in his own personal glorification, power and ambition!

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 21 Aug 2009 13:45

I think everyone is forgetting the JS accusation of "there is a CIA mole in the PM office". Despite repeated requests to clarify who this mole was, JS either hemmed and hawed or danced around the issue. In my view, coming from a senior member of the BJP, and more so from an army background, this was a highly irresponsible statement. Its one thing for the likes of Maywati and Lalloo to make the statement, but quite different for JS stature. That too coming from a party that claims its with a "difference" (although I havent seen that difference yet) should have meant he would be disciplined earlier...

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 13:46

Before you rip me apart and I would not be surprised or astonished if you did, since I have also been 'seasoned' to believe that Gandhi, Nehtru and Patel were our salvation (I still believe Jinnah is the villain of the piece) just answer these:

1. What is this nonsense of 'Partition over my dead body' by Gandhiand then going wimpish? The gentleman wanted personal glory and left a large majority destitute, homeless and killed!! A great leader indeed! His home was safe however! Wearing a loin cloth is no symbol of greatness when he left a large majority nude (metaphorically!)

2. Why were Punjabi treated differently amnd got compensaation and not Bengalis and who lived on dole?

3. Why are we, East Indians living like aliens in or land even though we say with all sincerity:

If you let me take your heart I will prove to you,
We will never be apart if I'm part of you.
Open up your eyes now, tell me what you see.
It is no suprise now, what you see is me.

Any answers?

Yes. I do feel that I am outside the Indian society. I have seen here on this forum identifying us as 'dark rice eating etc! And when I objected, they conveniently passed it on to Bangladeshis. These Bangladeshis are Bengali too. Their religion is different and religion does not change characteristics!

Those who are further to the East feel more alien and you chaps talk so vociferously about China and South Tibet.

It is time you all good men of India, wake up!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 13:47

Tanaji wrote:I think everyone is forgetting the JS accusation of "there is a CIA mole in the PM office". Despite repeated requests to clarify who this mole was, JS either hemmed and hawed or danced around the issue. In my view, coming from a senior member of the BJP, and more so from an army background, this was a highly irresponsible statement. Its one thing for the likes of Maywati and Lalloo to make the statement, but quite different for JS stature. That too coming from a party that claims its with a "difference" (although I havent seen that difference yet) should have meant he would be disciplined earlier...

Forget moles!

There are many I am sure.

What is important is are we all Indians?

You think Mayawati being a Scheduled Caste woman is not material to India?

So Gandhi, Nehru and Patel are India?

India has moved on.

These Mayawatis, Laloos are now material and they are overdoing themselves.

They will also meet their fate!

I presume you are a Maharastrian.

You want all non Maharastians out and Bal boy is your hero.

So, what are you talking about?

Instead of pontificating read the links that I have append fort you and likeminded nationalists of India. And then talk!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Aug 2009 13:59

Yes. I do feel that I am outside the Indian society. I have seen here on this forum identifying us as 'dark rice eating etc! And when I objected, they conveniently passed it on to Bangladeshis. These Bangladeshis are Bengali too. Their religion is different and religion does not change characteristics!

what ?? we are short dark and rice-eating and proud to be so !!

even our new nuclear submarine is called the rice-eater.
the origin of this term is related to bangladesh but that has little to do with its current use.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 14:02

Rahul.

you maybe a dark little Joe and rice eating.

I daresay I am short!!

My dogs and even us we also eats chapatis.

Visit us and see!

he origin of this term is related to bangladesh but that has little to do with its current use.

Not understood!

Even if it is for Bangladeshi, I object!

They are also Bengali, even if their religion is different.

And maybe your and my religion would be different too! However, culturally and ethnically we are the same!

And you may not be from, East Bengal and instead a ghoti, so what would you understand? And even if you are from East Bengal, you would not realise the hardship that your family undertook to be what they are.

Punjabis got compensation, Not us!

Read this;

It extends to the whole of India except 1*[the territories which, immediately before the 1st November, 1956, were comprised in the States] of Assam, West Bengal, Tripura, Manipur and Jammu and Kashmir.
http://www.commonlii.org/in/legis/num_act/aoepa1950372/

Read this:

[Not just refugees, but social workers, politicians, even government officials from West Bengal have claimed that the Union government discriminated between the displaced persons in the East and the West following Partition. Presented below is a ‘Report of a Tour of Inspection of some of the Refugee Homes in north-western India prepared by well-known social workers of West Bengal. This eyewitness account as well as comparative analysis points to the discrimination practiced.]
http://www.india-seminar.com/2002/510/5 ... 0gupta.htm

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 21 Aug 2009 14:18

Tanaji Saar ( becausse Ji is already built in

)
That unmole subject was uncovered by me couple of posts ago.
Now we have shifted goal posts to discrimination in the nation between Sindhi (Lkg clan) and West Punjabi refugees
being compensated enormous amounts but nothing was doled out to east bengali refugees.
I think there is legitimacy in that. How do you think Dadar and Matunga is full of Sindhi shops? But one thing though Begalis dont have Mangaram, Totaram , Ramjeeth, Motani etc. but even mom wont feed unless you Manga? no

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Aug 2009 14:19

RayC, we call ourselves short dark and rice eating in a mocking reference to the attempts by Pakistani's (who themselves are short and dark and eat ghaas, neither rice or wheat for them unfortunately) to label some sections of Indians as different and propound the nonsense about martial races.

We Indians come in all combinations of short/tall, dark/fair, rice eating/wheat eating (total of 8 possibilities) but it is a way to say that we are all one, the one which some others find different from them.

Its a medal of honor in this forum and never meant in a bad way.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 14:22

It is time you stop it, unless you are Pakistanis masquerading as Indians!

I am a Bengali and proud to be so, I eat rice as if that is poison and I am not short.

So who the Dickens are you meaning?

Quit acting a racist freak!

MMS is a wimpish freakish whining Sikh and a short Joeso. Compare him with the stature and tallness of Gen Harbakhash Singh!

So can we claim tha tsll Sikhs are wimpinsh, whining and midgets?

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 21 Aug 2009 14:26

Ray Sir

Its all Humor in Uniform(ly)

Time is too short (DRE missing) to take ourselves seriously...no?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Aug 2009 14:28

RayC wrote:It is time you stop it, unless you are Pakistanis masquerading as Indians!

I dont think the usage would stop unless there is a admin guideline and which is imposed fiercely. As it is use of words popular in Pakistan have become de rigour here (such as fatwa, AoA) as well as generous use of Pinglish.

Most people think it fine and fun and within limits of acceptable satire (on Pakistani's) -- I personally am lukewarm about it, and don't use any of it much (and no pinglish at all) but personally I feel that calling it off may be being too harsh on something which is seen by most as harmless fun.

Anyway, as a part of moderation team, its up to you and others to make up the guidelines, and your privilege.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Aug 2009 14:29

RayC wrote: Yes. I do feel that I am outside the Indian society. I have seen here on this forum identifying us as 'dark rice eating etc!

RayC on BRF I believe that all members need to know the origin of the expression "short, dark, and rice eating" - SDRE.

It is used on here to mock and make fun of Pakistanis who are set apart as Tall, Fair and Tight Assed (TFTA). All Indians, repeat all Indians with no exceptions are SDRE - even if he is actually 6 foot 6, eats only Tiger flesh and has a face fairer than the peachy bottom of a Paki's favorite "ashna" (boy used for buggery). So you and I and the rest of us all are invariably, incorrigibly and unexceptionably SDRE.

There are certain historic reasons for doing that but that is OT

After getting that sorted out:

RayC wrote: An interesting observation.

Could it be his Army background that he put his life on line to show that he is ready to lead from the front?

On the issue of no high level emissary of other countries going to dialogue with hijackers does not mean someone cannot do so and be the first!!

This set me thinking. Perhaps Jaswant will one day reveal the reasoning here, but let me guess.

Pakis and the Taliban could have been expected to be so untrustworthy that they may well have accepted the released prisoners and then made more demands unless there was a way of exerting some subtle pressure on them by sending a sacrifical bakra who was senior enough to cause outrage in India is the Taliban did not honor the exchange or took the emissary prisoner.
As foreign minister Jaswant's high profile presence may have helped to "goad" the Pakis/Taliban that would have been taking a real risk in not letting go as they did after the ecahge.

Just a guess. Yes he did have guts' I doubt if "loh purush" Advani woud have done that. Did I type "Loh" purush? May I should have said lol purush.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 21 Aug 2009 14:30

I love humour.

But not racist humour and more so when some claim to be more Indian than Indians!

Quit it.

Read history.

There are more Bengalis who have sacrrificed for the Indian Independence and given you your voice than Bhagat Singh.

It is just that Bengalis are fools and don't thump their breast as if in Matam on Moharrum!

Shiv

I don't care what is your ways of doing things and Pakistanis be damned.

I feel offended.

I have said this before too!

If I were to say Mysore is actually where Mahishasur, the demon originated from and all Kannadigas are basically demons and should be sorted out, how would you feel?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Aug 2009 14:32

RayC wrote:I love humour.

But not racist humour and more so when some claim to be more Indian than Indians!

Quit it.

Read history.

There are more Bengalis who have sacrrificed for the Indian Independence and given you your voice than Bhagat Singh.

It is just that Bengalis are fools and don't thump their breast as if in Matam on Moharrum!

No please. I believe you have failed to see the context in which it is used. The explanation is quite involved - and it is a self goal to take it seriously. Indians wear their SDRE status with pride. "Garve se kaho hum SDRE hain"

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 21 Aug 2009 14:33

Where does Bengal or Bengali's come into the picture? Who has used it to describe Bengalis? That would of course be unacceptable.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 21 Aug 2009 14:34

Thanks to Jassoo Mithai

We are heading towards partytion on BRF.

The hall mark of Indians is divided we better stand. I love it. Because it drives the world crazy to understand us, only Shree Stephen Cohen comes close to heart to understand us.

.

Sanku Bengal comes into picture if you look Noth By North east in Indian map ( as you stand or sit in front of it)
In military parlance, it is about 1.30 to 2.00 clock

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Aug 2009 14:38

Sanku wrote:Where does Bengal or Bengali's come into the picture? Who has used it to describe Bengalis? That would of course be unacceptable.

Sanku that is a pertinent question. In fact Pakistanis on unmentionable fora when BRF was new typically used to refer to Indians as short, thin and dark and ugly and to themselves as tall and fair and handsome. At around this time Benazir bhutto made a public statement that she had been taught in school in Pakistan that West Pakis are tall fair and wheat eating, while East Pakistanis are short, dark and rice eating.

Those were the heydays of Indians being fooled by Paki bravado and then coming on to BRF to do their crying. That is when expressions TFTA and SDRE were coined to set us apart and basically mock the idiocy which is now so well recognized as "Normal Pakiness"