PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 09 Sep 2009 09:47

^Why accuse others of being paki when he raises valid doubts of economic viability of such projects? Remember the gaint malls with no customer in china? http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 49#p721749

Similarly is the solar project economically viable? What do the economic gurus have to say about this. To me looks like a project with a set of political goals.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_13291381?source=rss

First Solar plans to make money by selling the plant to a local operator, but it won't be able to estimate its profit until China determines the size of its subsidy for solar energy. The country is expected to offer a "feed-in tariff," which would require utilities to buy solar energy at a fixed price for a set number of years.

Another Source.

http://www.cltv.com/business/sns-ap-us- ... 9226.story

Some of the political gains have already started coming. Positive vibes everywhere even before the project is operationalised.
>>The solar field would dwarf anything in operation in the U.S. or Europe.
Meaning:China greater than US and Europe.

>>"In the U.S., energy policy is made on the state level," Mike Ahearn said. "Every state has a different approach."
Meaning:Chinese central planning is greater than US policy planning. Who needs state legisaltors anyway? Waste of money. China great, US not great.

>>In contrast, Ahearn said China has designated a region within the country for renewable energy production and transmission. It also has promised to guide First Solar through the approval process and make it profitable.
Political insurance?

>>Tempe, Arizona-based First Solar announced the deal Tuesday after signing a "memorandum of understanding" with Wu Bangguo, chairman of the Standing Committee of the Chinese National People's Congress.

>>The agreement outlines broad aspects of the project, including deadlines for a feasibility study and the government's role in helping with construction permits. But Ahearn said much of the deal hasn't been worked out yet, including how much First Solar would get paid.
What happens when and if the deal goes bad?
Remember Rio Tinto?
Mike Ahearn can start taking courses on how to deal with the chinese judicial system run by the CCP.

>>First Solar plans to make money by selling the plant to a local operator, but it won't be able to estimate its profit until China determines the size of its subsidy for solar energy. The country is expected to offer a "feed-in tariff," which would require utilities to buy solar energy at a fixed price for a set number of years.

>>Industry experts say they're not sure when that will happen.

>>Bachman said announcements of smaller solar farms have been popping up "all over the place" in China. But investors so far have been unimpressed because of the uncertainty surrounding its subsidy program.

And the biggest drawback.
>>Like most solar plants, however, it wouldn't produce electricity at night.

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Sep 2009 10:43

Avinash R wrote:And the biggest drawback.
>>Like most solar plants, however, it wouldn't produce electricity at night.

Good post Avinash.

Just imagine a 2000 MW plant connected to the grid which produces zero electricity at night! What happens to the grid? They'll have to put in huge storage facilities if it is to be economically viable.

And this is not even taking into consideration about the environmental cost of producing so many square km of solar panels. Yes solar panel production is messy business, one of the things that is less highlighted.

Actually, just as India has announced a huge solar energy initiative, I suspect this project is China's effort to get pressure off itself during the climate control talks.

While it's not right to belittle a competitor, it also makes no sense to see them as being something larger than life.

amit · Post by **amit** » 09 Sep 2009 11:18

Some more information on the C919 plane whose mock-up was shown at Asian Aerospace 09 at Hong Kong.

Here's a press release, sorry don't have a link, this came by email:

COMAC 919 EXHIBIT MAKES INTERNATIONAL DEBUT AT ASIAN AEROSPACE ‘09

Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) is committed to a major exhibit at Asian Aerospace ‘09, with the new C919 airliner mock-up taking centre stage with its international debut outside China. The 150 seat C919 airliner is China’s most ambitious commercial aerospace programme and will be undertaken in co-operation with international partners from Asia, Europe and the United States.

The C919 programme was launched in November 2008, with the first aircraft scheduled to enter airline service in 2016. Extended range, cargo and corporate versions of the aircraft will be developed at later dates. The C919 passenger airliner will offer improved passenger comfort and operating economics compared to current generation of 150 seat airliners and will compete directly in international markets with the established Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 models.

COMAC is a state owned limited liability company established with the approval of the State Council of the People’s Republic of China.

Here's one Link

Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) Commercial Engines also hopes to supply Chinese-built engines for the C919 but has conceded the first C919s are likely to be powered by western engines.

I personally think once C919 is ready it will have one huge advantage and that is it will get preference in the Chinese domestic market for medium haul. However, I don't think outside of China people will buy the plane in large numbers save Chinese client states.

The reason being that by 2016 there will be a lot of competitors and the most important one to watch out for, according to aviation circles is the Mitsubishi regional jet.

Mitsubishi Leads Japanese Aircraft

The MRJ is being designed to tackle the twin challenges of soaring oil prices (currently more than $100 per barrel) and the mounting pressure to reduce emissions from commercial jets. After studying CFM International's LEAP56 engine technology research and Rolls-Royce's RB282 effort, the company gave Pratt & Whitney a boost by selecting its geared turbofan (GTF) to power the new jets

Another major competitor is the Sukhoi Superjet(150 passenger category) which was exhibited at the Paris Air Show. (It's a sexy plane, I got a chance to see its maiden flight at the show.

)

But all said and done, really a commendable effort by China.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 09 Sep 2009 13:23

China manufacturing civilian aeroplanes ...

God save the Chinese aviation industry. Hope the wings don't come off mid-flight . My best wishes in advance to the "would be passengers". Hope , WHO and WHEN take the H&D to enjoy the maiden flight.

Vriksh · Post by **Vriksh** » 09 Sep 2009 14:05

Friedman column this week... An interesting take on happenings in China and the US.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/opini ... edman.html

Basically

that enlightened Autocracy is superior to Democracy since in times of making difficult decisions an autocracy is better able to appreciate the need for long term planning rather than short term electoral gains. Suitable caveats apply

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 09 Sep 2009 16:37

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/opini ... edman.html

Basically that enlightened Autocracy is superior to Democracy since in times of making difficult decisions an autocracy is better able to appreciate the need for long term planning rather than short term electoral gains. Suitable caveats apply

Friedman, zakaria and their types are, to a certain extent, trend-setters and the arbiters of what

is acceptable in polite society.

So their glorifying PRC will mean that the last stick to beat PRC with - democrazy - may soon and quietly be rendered impotent.

Am no big fan of PRC but the west getting a jhapad from Asia for a change, can't be all bad. Might actually endup lending cojones to lesser nations in Asia, I reckon. Jai Ho.

MaoA, MaoA.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 10 Sep 2009 00:00

amit wrote:Some more information on the C919 plane whose mock-up was shown at Asian Aerospace 09 at Hong Kong.

Here's a press release, sorry don't have a link, this came by email:

COMAC 919 EXHIBIT MAKES INTERNATIONAL DEBUT AT ASIAN AEROSPACE ‘09

Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) is committed to a major exhibit at Asian Aerospace ‘09, with the new C919 airliner mock-up taking centre stage with its international debut outside China. The 150 seat C919 airliner is China’s most ambitious commercial aerospace programme and will be undertaken in co-operation with international partners from Asia, Europe and the United States.

The C919 programme was launched in November 2008, with the first aircraft scheduled to enter airline service in 2016. Extended range, cargo and corporate versions of the aircraft will be developed at later dates. The C919 passenger airliner will offer improved passenger comfort and operating economics compared to current generation of 150 seat airliners and will compete directly in international markets with the established Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 models.

COMAC is a state owned limited liability company established with the approval of the State Council of the People’s Republic of China.
Here's one Link

Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) Commercial Engines also hopes to supply Chinese-built engines for the C919 but has conceded the first C919s are likely to be powered by western engines.
I personally think once C919 is ready it will have one huge advantage and that is it will get preference in the Chinese domestic market for medium haul. However, I don't think outside of China people will buy the plane in large numbers save Chinese client states.

The reason being that by 2016 there will be a lot of competitors and the most important one to watch out for, according to aviation circles is the Mitsubishi regional jet.

Mitsubishi Leads Japanese Aircraft

The MRJ is being designed to tackle the twin challenges of soaring oil prices (currently more than $100 per barrel) and the mounting pressure to reduce emissions from commercial jets. After studying CFM International's LEAP56 engine technology research and Rolls-Royce's RB282 effort, the company gave Pratt & Whitney a boost by selecting its geared turbofan (GTF) to power the new jets
Another major competitor is the Sukhoi Superjet(150 passenger category) which was exhibited at the Paris Air Show. (It's a sexy plane, I got a chance to see its maiden flight at the show. )

But all said and done, really a commendable effort by China.

Avinash,

This is what I call a valid critique of an ambitious project.

Sorry for a one liner with full quote! Jus appreciating amit's approach!

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 10 Sep 2009 14:09

First Solar, which makes more solar cells than any other company, said it struck a tentative 10-year deal to build in China's vast desert north of the Great Wall. The project would eventually blanket 25 square miles of Inner Mongolia -- slightly larger than the size of Manhattan -- with a sea of black, light-absorbing glass.

The solar field would dwarf anything in operation in the U.S. or Europe. At 2 gigawatts, or 2 billion watts, the solar plant could pump as much energy onto China's grid as two coal-fired plants, enough to light up three million homes. Like most solar plants, however, it wouldn't produce electricity at night.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 984301.cms

It is not clear if this is a power generation plant or a plant for manufacturing solar panels.

Clinton Foundation to set up 3000MW solar plant in Gujarat

AHMEDABAD: The Clinton Climate Initiative (CCI), a programme of US-based William J Clinton Foundation, on Monday announced setting up of the

world’s largest solar power plant in Gujarat with an estimated investment of Rs 50,000 crore likely to flow into the state over the next five years.

The proposed 3,000MW plant —one of the four being set up by CCI across the globe — promises to make Gujarat the solar power hub of India. Gujarat has identified four locations along its international border with Pakistan for solar projects.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Sep 2009 15:33

How much of that 50,000 crores is going into babu's pockets?

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 10 Sep 2009 15:54

krishnan wrote:How much of that 50,000 crores is going into babu's pockets?

Good point even though IMO the project woud be worth it even if the 'leakage' were 50%. That said, because this is Gujrat we are taking about, chances are the eakage rate woud be ower than the nationa average and that any overly obscene attempts at blackmail/rent-seeking by any babooze would backfire on the said babooze if it gets to Sri Modi's gentle attention.

Seriously, such a proj merits much greater media attn and Jai-Ho level celebrations, IMHO.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Sep 2009 16:18

Its modi , thats why. Or would have got a one page hindu ad if it was the cong

Prasanth · Post by **Prasanth** » 11 Sep 2009 07:05

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/latest-n ... accine-174

Beijing: With the release of first batch of the H1N1 vaccine, the Chinese health ministry has announced the country's vaccination plan against the influenza pandemic.

China has become the first country in the world to be ready with a vaccine.

Do we have any plans for an indigenous vaccine? I bet this Chinese vaccine is just another Tamiflu rip-off. Mexico is apparently buying this stuff…let these suck*rs be the guinea pig.

Verma · Post by **Verma** » 11 Sep 2009 17:39

Prasanth wrote:http://www.deccanchronicle.com/latest-n ... accine-174

Beijing: With the release of first batch of the H1N1 vaccine, the Chinese health ministry has announced the country's vaccination plan against the influenza pandemic.

China has become the first country in the world to be ready with a vaccine.
Do we have any plans for an indigenous vaccine? I bet this Chinese vaccine is just another Tamiflu rip-off. Mexico is apparently buying this stuff…let these suck*rs be the guinea pig.

The Fox and the Grapes is a fable attributed to Aesop. It is one of a number which feature only a single animal protagonist. A fox, upon failing to find a way to reach grapes hanging high up on a vine, retreated and said: "The grapes are sour anyway!"

The fable illustrates the concept of cognitive dissonance, which occurs when a person tries to hold incompatible ideas simultaneously. Dissonance is reduced by altering one of the belief or desire states, even if it leads to irrational behavior.

The English idiom "sour grapes" - derived from this fable - refers to:

the false denial of desire for something sought but not acquired
the denigration and feigning of disdain for that which one could not attain

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 12 Sep 2009 09:01

^So now greek slave's tales are being used to save face of chinese medicine.

The world knows what's the reliability of chinese medicines. The fake chinese medicines with "Made in India" labels dumped in africa are proof of that.

Chinese man held over fake H1N1 swine flu medicine

SHANGHAI (Xinhua) — Chinese border police Tuesday arrested a man for selling fake influenza A/H1N1 medicine to foreign ship crews in Shanghai, the first such case in the city.

The man, surnamed Liu, is a rural migrant worker from central China’s Hunan Province, police said.

Liu confessed that he wanted to cash in on the fears over the fast-spreading A/H1N1 flu to sell so called “miracle” medicine to foreign crews at the Shanghai port.

A tip-off at around 9 a.m. led to the arrest on a Panama-flagged ship and the medicine was fake Tamiflu, sold during the avian influenza outbreaks, police said.

If any foreign crew members showed flu symptoms, they should see doctors rather than believe some so-called “miracle” medicine, police added.

Prasanth · Post by **Prasanth** » 12 Sep 2009 14:17

Avinash R wrote:^So now greek slave's tales are being used to save face of chinese medicine. The world knows what's the reliability of chinese medicines. The fake chinese medicines with "Made in India" labels dumped in africa are proof of that.

Chinese man held over fake H1N1 swine flu medicine

SHANGHAI (Xinhua) — Chinese border police Tuesday arrested a man for selling fake influenza A/H1N1 medicine to foreign ship crews in Shanghai, the first such case in the city.

The man, surnamed Liu, is a rural migrant worker from central China’s Hunan Province, police said.

Liu confessed that he wanted to cash in on the fears over the fast-spreading A/H1N1 flu to sell so called “miracle” medicine to foreign crews at the Shanghai port.

A tip-off at around 9 a.m. led to the arrest on a Panama-flagged ship and the medicine was fake Tamiflu, sold during the avian influenza outbreaks, police said.

If any foreign crew members showed flu symptoms, they should see doctors rather than believe some so-called “miracle” medicine, police added.

That was what I was trying to say all along, we have nothing to fear of these chi*ks. Even their EVA thingy for shenzhou whatever was fake. Remember there were bubbles floating like in an aquarium! I hope we realize China is nothing but a paper lizard. No scientific ingenuity whatsoever, all copied and third rated. This time when they crossover, we are gonna smoke' em good.

Verma · Post by **Verma** » 12 Sep 2009 15:05

Greek slave was more clever than pretentious idiot.
If you could not get the vaccine, you say this is a fake one, that's the story of sour grapes.
Daydreaming is boasters' psychotropic narcotics substances.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 12 Sep 2009 15:45

^Better to feign to be a idiot than to be a clever-by-half maoist digging coal under pressure of the ccp boots.
Chinese medicines both traditional and modern are known to be better and effective killers than diseases.

Verma · Post by **Verma** » 12 Sep 2009 20:50

Avinash R wrote:^Better to feign to be a idiot than to be a clever-by-half maoist digging coal under pressure of the ccp boots.
Chinese medicines both traditional and modern are known to be better and effective killers than diseases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy

The life expectancy of PRC is 73.0 according to United Nations World Population Prospects 2006, and the number of India is 64.7, so fake medicines country must be short lived boaster's homeland.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 12 Sep 2009 21:17

Deleted

archan · Post by **archan** » 12 Sep 2009 21:47

milindc wrote:
Verma wrote:Greek slave was more clever than pretentious idiot.
If you could not get the vaccine, you say this is a fake one, that's the story of sour grapes.
Daydreaming is boasters' psychotropic narcotics substances.
Fake (Chinese) Verma, need we say more.
So do you paid to troll by the comlades to douse out any negative comments

milindc, your post is a clear flamebait and a personal attack. This will not help the discussion at all. If you fail to edit it/request to edit it with apologies, I will give you a warning in the next 24 hours or so.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Sep 2009 22:55

Verma wrote:.........

user ID suspended for registering with free email.
you can reactivate this account with a non-free email.
Rahul.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 13 Sep 2009 09:48

Verma wrote:The life expectancy of PRC is 73.0 according to United Nations World Population Prospects 2006, and the number of India is 64.7, so fake medicines country must be short lived boaster's homeland.

What you are saying is the average chinese will live a long life even after drinking melamine laced milk, eating fake eggs which cause dementia and lucky enough not to get abducted by maoist thugs when he seeks justice from the chinese judicial system run the communist party. I guess this is the first signs of dementia.
China petitioners end up in loony bins
9 Dec 2008, 0006 hrs IST, AFP

BEIJING: The government of an eastern Chinese city is abducting citizens who complain to higher authorities over local injustices and holding them in mental asylums, state media reported.

At least 18 people were believed to have been detained in the city of Xintai, with some being administered debilitating drugs when they objected, according to an investigative report by the Beijing News. The report said victims were released only when they vowed to drop their complaints.

Under a system dating from imperial days, Chinese people who suffer injustices can petition central authorities in Beijing for help. The tradition has survived into the Communist era but has become a perilous undertaking for petitioners, who are often intercepted by local officials to prevent their complaints being aired in Beijing.

The abductions have been occurring in Xintai city since at least 2006, the report said.

The head of the Xintai Mental Health Centre, Wu Yuzhu, was quoted admitting that the centre had “many” such petitioners in its care, paid for by the local government.

The report focused on the case of Sun Fashi, 57, who for years had sought compensation for himself and fellow villagers over land subsidence, caused by excessive coal mining.

vina · Post by **vina** » 13 Sep 2009 11:02

Heard from a Chinese-American friend (grew up in China, but move to America after Tinanamen square and got citizenship) and who now has been living in China for the past few years and now runs a hedge fund there. What he says is this. It is funny to be living in the midst of another bubble. The scene is exactly the same as what it was 2 years ago. I believe cleaning women and janitors talk about which stocks to buy! The scene is exactly like what it was before the stock market crash over the last year or so, the market is back to the pre crash levels.

Let me take a stab at what has happened. As part of the "stimulus" a large part of the massive credit growth in China has ended up in the stock market , inflating it. And also, the Govt has directly pumped up the market for obvious reasons (it is really easy to do it in china given the fact that the float in most Chinese companies which anway are govt owned are really small, the banks are govt owned etc).

All this is setting the stage for a huge bust after the bubble implodes. It is a terribly dangerous game the Chinese are playing. What is true with the stock market will be true for the real estate market as well.

The smart chinese will take the chance to exit now with atleast their shirts intact and square the losses if they bought during the previous bubble prices. The idiots who are entering now at such ridiculous valuations or doubling their bets at such prices are to lose their shirts for sure.

Well what goes my father's . Alteast any Chinese poster like Liu/Verma/Wrdos or anyother lurker here can atleast get smart and exit.

amit · Post by **amit** » 14 Sep 2009 07:30

pandyan wrote:depends on where the feed is going to. typically, demand is very heavy during daytime and drops signficantly during night...so, the solar plant would take care of daytime need. for night time use, electricity would be pulled from the grid.

nothing unusual....even wind farms have similar constraints.

Pandyan boss,

Theoretically what you say is true. But look at the practicality. You set up a 2000 MW solar power plant (think of the cost vis a vis conventional coal-fired plants) and then you generate 2000 MW peak out put for just 12 hours max. And even this is not guaranteed as climatic conditions have a role to play.

The other point is, you are suggesting that the grid can take a 2000 MW drop in power supply without out tripping and load balancing issues? That would, according to my understanding entail a grid with at least 2000 MW extra generation (over demand) capacity. If most of the electricity goes to industrial units then it's not likely that there will be a significant drop in demand during the night.

Maybe all the technical problems can be solved. However, given the cost/MW do you think it's a viable investment?

I personally think No. However, China is going for it much for the same reason India has announced its major solar initiative - that is to deflect pressure that the on-going climate control talks are likely to inflict on the huge Chinese as well as Indian economy.

OT but I'd like a reiterate a point that I made in the Nuclear testing/CTBT threads. And that is this Climate control negotiations IMO has far more important strategic bearing on India's future than the CTBT talks.

amit · Post by **amit** » 14 Sep 2009 07:35

Katare wrote:Avinash,

This is what I call a valid critique of an ambitious project.

Sorry for a one liner with full quote! Jus appreciating amit's approach!

Boss thanks for you kind words.

However, in my post I forgot to add that Embraer and Bombardier also have planes planned for that category, which is just below what the two big boys, Boeing and Airbus are concentrating on.

So the market is quite crowded IMO.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 18 Sep 2009 07:28

Dragon Economy Roaring Again, US Economy Still Sputtering

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Sep 2009 14:57

IMO, it is terrible the way the running dogs of western imperialism are running down China's natural and pristine economic rise.

Good thing is that the said anti-PRC propagandu will not be available for consumption within PRC.

China's "cancer villages" bear witness to economic boom

One needs to look no further then the river that runs through Shangba to understand the extent of the heavy metals pollution that experts say has turned the hamlets in this region of southern China into cancer villages.

The river's flow ranges from murky white to a bright shade of orange and the waters are so viscous that they barely ripple in the breeze. In Shangba, the river brings death, not sustenance.

"All the fish died, even chickens and ducks that drank from the river died. If you put your leg in the water, you'll get rashes and a terrible itch," said He Shuncai, a 34-year-old rice farmer who has lived in Shangba all his life.

"Last year alone, six people in our village died from cancer and they were in their 30s and 40s." Every year, an estimated 460,000 people die prematurely in China due to exposure to air and water pollution, according to a 2007 World Bank study.

The defamation is terrible indeed. How concocted it is can be gauged from this slide show here.

Heck, they look cleaner than the drains in slumdawgistan to me, hey.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Sep 2009 17:28

not to indulge in the typical yindu custom of running down equal-equal, but
the 900acre Bellandur lake behind HAL airport is a total shambles because waste
water and runoff from surrounding villages and new apts are allowed to flow into it. the water has a layer on top and barely ripples, it is blackish in colour.

in HAL museum there is a photo of the lake back when it was 2000acre in 1940s
and extended to right behind the airport. the RAF had a seaplane training school on it !

if we dont care for our waterbodies - nobody else will save us. the lake needs
to be sealed to incoming effluents, cleaned up properly, allowed to recover and
proper gardens , trees and jogging trails made on its border.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 18 Sep 2009 19:50

^That is terrible indeed.

Where are the enviro-nazis and the media coverage they command just when you need them?
Protesting U mining in Meghalaya, Posco and Narmada, am sure.

The Ganga project, launched during the Rajiv era has since floundered, I hear. Sometimes I wonder if we deserve nature's bounty at all in the first place. US water bodies improved in quality a lot between the 30s and the 90s because of cleaner-greener tech and wanton outsourcing of the dirtiest jobs to the turd world. Maybe as we become a middle income country, some miracle can happen here too. Yup, living on a prayer onlee.

Added later:
Seems netaship with will can make change happen. Evidence is the sea change in water quality in Hyd's central hussein sagar lake under successive TDP gubmints. I recall when the place stank to high heaven. Now, boating tours off necklace road are a daily feature.

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 19 Sep 2009 20:09

More D&G

CHINA WILL BE A BIGGER BUBBLE THAN JAPAN

Andy Xie: What We Can Learn as Japan's Economy Sinks

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Sep 2009 22:02

Check the chart in th elink.
What is the emerging market issue for England in 1825?

It is India ofcourse. - cotton trading and commodoties had a bubble since British had the monopoly

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 20 Sep 2009 00:00

^^^

The Chinese mania must be 'My GDP glow at 13 pelcent, whatevel happens'.

.
Also notice the 20'1'? against China.
.
And alsowhat is 'the anticipated Japanese overtake of US economy'?

manish · Post by **manish** » 20 Sep 2009 00:10

Akshut wrote:^^^

The Chinese mania must be 'My GDP glow at 13 pelcent, whatevel happens'.
.
Also notice the 20'1'? against China.
.
And also can anyone what is 'the anticipated Japanese overtake of US economy'?

Back in the late 1980s everyone and his uncle believed that Japan would overtake the US and become the pre-eminent global economic power. Those were the days when the Japanese could do no wrong, seemed invincible in every sphere and Nikkei was at 31K (?) plus levels and Japanese corporations were buying up everything in sight, especially in the US.
Then came the crash. What followed was the so-called 'Lost Decade' of the 1990s.

Akshut · Post by **Akshut** » 20 Sep 2009 01:02

manish wrote:
Akshut wrote:^^^

The Chinese mania must be 'My GDP glow at 13 pelcent, whatevel happens'.
.
Also notice the 20'1'? against China.
.
And also can anyone what is 'the anticipated Japanese overtake of US economy'?
Back in the late 1980s everyone and his uncle believed that Japan would overtake the US and become the pre-eminent global economic power. Those were the days when the Japanese could do no wrong, seemed invincible in every sphere and Nikkei was at 31K (?) plus levels and Japanese corporations were buying up everything in sight, especially in the US.
Then came the crash. What followed was the so-called 'Lost Decade' of the 1990s.

Thanks for this.

Also a comment worth mentioning, from one of the links.

I am a New Zealander living in China and I have found that until you live here, it is hard to get a handle on what really goes on here.

I believe the cunning Mandarins in Beijing will not let the economy suffer a Bubble like Japan, however I agree there is probably a Bubble in Residential Property. This is being brought about by massive building of new apartment blocks and rampant speculation by those who buy them in the hope that the price will go up at some stage in the future. While this has proven so for some, it has not for others and it has had the effect of driving up the prices to levels which are becoming unaffordable for some, particularly those moving from the countryside to the cities.

Despite the “flashiness” of cities like Shanghai, one must remember there are over 850,000,000 peasants in the Chinese countryside who have been promised more money and better conditions by the Chinese Government. This condition was not like Japan, even 30 years ago. Also, the 850,000,000 peasants are prepared to create considerable social unrest to get what they have been promised and the Government members will not be wanting to give up their current position, income and power because they know if they fail to deliver, their days are numbered.

With the current economic crisis, the Chinese Government have told local manufacturers to shift their focus from exports to domestic and while this is generating less export earnings, they are still considerable. The Government are also stimulating demand. The Japanese have a domestic market which is 1,200,000,000 people smaller than Chinas.

The Chinese Stock Market will have its ups and downs, but this should not be confused with the Bubble Effect. It is purely due to greed, stupidity, lying and cheating, mainly on the part of the Company bosses and partially due to investors being starved of good investment opportunities.

The reality is that Japan reached its position of economic power quickly because in the first instance it was propped up by the USA and secondly, its population was well educated, relatively small but highly motivated to achieve. China is the exactly the opposite.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 20 Sep 2009 18:16

It seems like China is blinking first, letting US to dominate world economic space for some more decades. Chinese are at least brilliant, they know when to strike and when to recede.

China Faces ‘Arduous Task’ for Stable Growth, Society

Sept. 20 (Bloomberg) -- China, the world’s third-largest economy, faces an “arduous task” in maintaining steady growth and a stable society, President Hu Jintao said, as the ruling communist party prepared to mark 60 years in power.

“Ensuring and improving the people’s livelihood as well as the mission of maintaining a stable society are arduous tasks as we face the impact of the global economic crisis,” Hu said, who was speaking at an event to mark the founding of the Chinese People’s Political Conference in Beijing today. Hu also spoke about the importance of national unity.

China will mark the founding of the People’s Republic in 1949 on Oct. 1 as the government helps fuel a recovery from the deepest global recession since World War II with a $586 billion stimulus plan. Beijing is also battling ethnic tensions in its Xinjiang region, where riots in July killed almost 200 people.

“The international financial crisis has had a great impact, and national competitiveness has become more intense and there are more unstable and uncertain factors,” Hu said.

China’s gross domestic product grew 7.9 percent in the second quarter, up from 6.1 percent in the three months through March. GDP growth slowed to 9 percent for 2008 from 13 percent in 2007. The nation’s 4 trillion yuan ($586 billion) stimulus plan, announced in November last year, runs through 2010.

China’s target of 8 percent growth in gross domestic product this year, while “difficult,” is attainable, China News reported yesterday citing Yao Jingyuan, chief economist at the National Bureau of Statistics.

‘Critical Phase’

The country is in the “critical phase” of ensuring economic growth, China National Radio reported Sept. 18, citing the Fourth Plenary Session of the 17th Communist Party of China Central Committee. Ensuring stable growth is government’s top priority as the global economic recovery is expected to be slow, the radio reported.

Curtailing ethnic unrest and a rise in protests nationwide has also become a priority for the Chinese government as it prepares to elevate a new generation of leaders who will begin to take office in 2012.

Syringe stabbings in China’s Muslim Xinjiang region have reignited the nation’s deadliest ethnic violence in decades. The attacks, which started on Aug. 17, followed July riots that left 197 people dead as tensions between Uighurs and Han Chinese turned violent.

‘Active Role’

The Chinese Communist Party “needs to play an active role to facilitate harmony in political, ethnic, religious and class relations among our compatriots at home and abroad,” Hu said.

The party must crack down on “separatist forces” that are plotting to create schisms between the nation’s 56 major ethnic groups, state broadcaster China Central Television reported on Sept. 18.

In the first half of the year, the number of demonstrations, riots, and strikes nationwide rose for the first time since 2005, Outlook, a magazine affiliated with the official Xinhua News Agency, reported in early September, without giving specific figures. The “rise in incidents involving more than 500 people is worthy of heightened vigilance,” the article said.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Sep 2009 20:16

all of you know of the south sea bubble in england. what some might not be aware of is a english gent named
John Law became numero uno in financial matters of France and ran the nation into the ground via hyperinflation and various innovations. he also started a much bigger scam called the Mississippi Co (i.e. people buy stocks in a Co which would transform then Mississipi a mosquito infested swamp in N.america into todays Tokyo

). the prudent Dutch (east indies trading co) had somehow managed a century of steady growth without jumps or scams and were quick to pounce on this with raw satire.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjacques/s ... 015946994/

The Mississippi Company of France already existed when John Law, a Scottish banker, took it over in 1717. It had a monopoly on trade in Louisiana since 1684, and Law built it up to cover trade in the French West and East Indies as well. He set up a private bank to handle all the transactions, expanded *that* into the French Royal Bank, and merged it with the Mississippi Company. Like the South Sea Company, the Mississippi Co. bought government debt to sell as shares, only all at once, in 1720, when Company shares were at their peak.

here we see a guy literally generating stock papers outa his musharaff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjacques/3 ... 015946994/

another sample of securities being generated from people's musharaff's..note the hunched little goblin
hard at work with a pair of tongs in top left

http://tinyurl.com/nex86c

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 20 Sep 2009 21:54

China's 60th Birthday: The Road to Prosperity
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 66,00.html

shynee · Post by **shynee** » 22 Sep 2009 08:49

Murder-Suicide in Chimerica

Global re-balancing, where the American partner in this marriage does a little bit more of the saving and a little less of the spending and the Chinese partner does just the opposite, is what most economic counsellors suggest. This could save a strained relationship and put the partners on a sustainable path. This does seem to be happening.

Nevertheless, could this relationship between China and America be coming to an end?

I say emphatically yes. 100%. There is no going back now. Each partner in this marriage, China and the United States, has a bevy of domestic constituencies which are forcing a dissolution of the relationship. Hardliners in China want to move away from the dollar. And populists in America want to punish the Chinese for allegedly manipulating their currency and dumping goods below cost in America.

So, as surely as day turns to night, this arrangement between China and the United States will end. This marriage is over. The question is whether it will end gradually and peacefully in divorce or violently in murder-suicide. Right now, it’s looking like the latter.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 23 Sep 2009 21:21

(TIME)China's Knockoff Electric Carmakers

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 28 Sep 2009 00:21

Hunt on for fleeing Chinese nationals

NEW DELHI/RAIPUR: Indian airport authorities are on the lookout for Chinese nationals who have fled from a Bharat Aluminium Company Ltd (Balco)
plant in Chhattisgarh, after an under-construction chimney collapsed killing 45 people, but no one has been detained till now, officials said on Sunday.

"About 70 Chinese nationals, mostly engineers, have left Korba town amid rising death toll of workers," a police source told IANS in Raipur.

The Chinese nationals were employed in Korba town, 250 km north of state capital Raipur, by Shandong Electric Power Construction Corporation (SEPCO) - a China-based company that was given the contract to construct a 1,200-MW thermal power plant.

SEPCO, in turn, had given a contract to Gannon Dunkerley and Company Ltd (GDCL) for construction of a 275-metre high chimney for the plant that caved in. So far, 45 bodies have been retrieved from the debris of the chimney scattered over a large area.

Several workers are still feared to be trapped in the rubble.

"Even the SEPCO office is locked. We need to stop them from fleeing Chhattisgarh, or even from India, as they need to be interrogated about the tragedy for a judicial probe," the police official said.

Meanwhile highly placed sources in the national capital told IANS that no Chinese national has been detained following the lookout notice against them.

"In the past two days, no such detention has been made," the source said.