Chandrayan-1 moon mission

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 25 Sep 2009 08:39

Xinhua gives ISRO credit - or are they just trying to avoid giving NASA credit?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009- ... 107884.htm

India's Chandrayaan mission discovers water on Moon
2009-09-24 20:49:32

NEW DELHI, Sept. 24 (Xinhua) -- In a landmark breakthrough, India's maiden mission to the Moon, Chandryaan, has discovered clear evidence of water on the lunar surface, the Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) said Thursday.

"There is confirmation of traces of water. It is a path-breaking event as far as Chandrayaan-1 mission is concerned. It isvery very significant. So far, no mission has confirmed the presence of water positively," ISRO Chairman G. Madhavan Nair toldthe media in the southern city of Bangalore.

The discovery of water on the Moon has also been published in the prestigious American journal "Science".

The quantity of water molecules near poles of the Moon is tiny but could become a useful resource for astronauts wishing to live on the Moon, scientists have revealed in the journal. Chandrayaan made its observations using a U.S.-provided instrument, the Moon Mineralogy Mapper, or M3 for short.

Chandrayaan's startling findings have been reinforced by data from two other older spacecrafts Cassini and High Impact, but the clincher really came from the 100-million-U.S. dollar Indian Moon mission which was recently lost in space.

The Indian Moon mission was launched late last year but has been abandoned due to a fault. Nevertheless, the ISRO considers the water discovery a major triumph and a vindication of its endeavors.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 25 Sep 2009 08:53

Although we recognise that it was American instrumentation and data analysis, ISRO's contribution is highly significant. I am not sure why the LRO is silent on selene hydrology.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 25 Sep 2009 09:19

x-posting from Indian Space programme thread

Gerard wrote:article in the UK Daily Mail

139 comments. Much takleef.

India is the next super power. It is the next power we all have to listen too. They were the world leader until Britsish took over the country and took all their resources to start the industrial revolution in the 18 century. But than India and China the top two economies of the world from 11th until 17th century are back and they will once again rule the world.

I am told they are sending manned mission to Moon and Mars in 2 years. Even NASA cannot afford that.

I really appreciate what India is coming to even if I am from Pakistan but have great respect for this great country.
- RS, LONDON, 24/9/2009 7:00

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 25 Sep 2009 09:49

Rony wrote:x-posting from Indian Space programme thread

Gerard wrote:article in the UK Daily Mail

139 comments. Much takleef.

India is the next super power. It is the next power we all have to listen too. They were the world leader until Britsish took over the country and took all their resources to start the industrial revolution in the 18 century. But than India and China the top two economies of the world from 11th until 17th century are back and they will once again rule the world.

I am told they are sending manned mission to Moon and Mars in 2 years. Even NASA cannot afford that.

I really appreciate what India is coming to even if I am from Pakistan but have great respect for this great country.
- RS, LONDON, 24/9/2009 7:00

Like I said before - there are countries that put the Moon on their flag, and then there are countries that put their flag on the Moon.
The two types are mutually exclusive, and I'm glad we're showing which type of country we are.
We're showing that we can do what the Pakistanis can only dream of.
A flag on the Moon is better than a Moon on the flag, any day.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 25 Sep 2009 10:00

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Sep 2009 10:10

Xinhua gives ISRO credit - or are they just trying to avoid giving NASA credit?

chankian problem - caught between the yindu and great running dog capitalist.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 25 Sep 2009 10:17

Pardon my dumb question(s) guys:

What is the reason for NASA "thanking" ISRO? Did we ever thank NASA for doing things they do?

Very conveniently this press briefing is on the same day UNSC passes something "unanimously." What is going on?

kaldag · Post by **kaldag** » 25 Sep 2009 10:36

Sanjay M wrote: Like I said before - there are countries that put the Moon on their flag, and then there are countries that put their flag on the Moon.
The two types are mutually exclusive, and I'm glad we're showing which type of country we are.
We're showing that we can do what the Pakistanis can only dream of.
A flag on the Moon is better than a Moon on the flag, any day.

Why do we always have to compare ourselves with Pakistan?
Pakistan is an insignificant country. We are doing a great disservice to the scientists of India by comparing their achievements to those from Pakistan. We should be comparing our achievements with other space faring and technologically advanced nations.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 25 Sep 2009 10:37

pandyan wrote:....
It must be uncompressed data.....assuming 85% compression, we are talking 150GB of compressed data and even that translates to 48Kbits/second (assuming 24X7X300days data transfer). That's a lot of bandwidth....from chandrayaan to earth. truly remarkable !!!

FWIW Chandrayaan uses x-band for down link with typical rates of about 200-1000 times what you mentioned. (Of course when the craft is on the other side no communication can take place, so it is out of contact for at least 50% of the time

)

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 25 Sep 2009 10:38

To those who claim that Cassini first spotted water on the Moon, this NASA press conference for M3 clearly says that it was the M3 data from the Chandrayaan-1 mission that allowed Cassini's original data to be reinterpreted as showing evidence of water. Prior to Chandrayaan-1, it was not known that the Cassini data showed water in it:

ss_roy · Post by **ss_roy** » 25 Sep 2009 10:52

How does that translate in chinese?

Xinhua gives ISRO credit - or are they just trying to avoid giving NASA credit?

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 25 Sep 2009 11:55

[Editing X-post]

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 25 Sep 2009 12:00

Satya_anveshi wrote:What is the reason for NASA "thanking" ISRO? Did we ever thank NASA for doing things they do?

Very conveniently this press briefing is on the same day UNSC passes something "unanimously." What is going on?

NASA has used old 'water-find' bogey to save its loosening global Space leader position which they maintain through technology sanctions on others.

There is no doubt that they long ago knew of water-find thing.

Now, after this 'water-find' news, every common english speaker in India will think NASA is on a humanity mission and they are being kind to share the mission with Indians. While the opposite was true in this case. It was the ISRO who took the Global initiative to Moon by inviting proposals from world over and NASA accepted to be part of it. Now, NASA has destroyed this spirit of 'sharing' by holding a press conference and declaring 'Thank you ISRO, for being part of it'.

Arrogance is typical to Americans.

Its quite interesting that while NASA claims to 'serve the humanity', the ISRO is still out of Moon data analysis team of NASA. ISRO is out of NASA's conference on findings of ISRO's moon mission.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 25 Sep 2009 12:10

vishwakarmaa wrote:.....There is no doubt that they long ago knew of water-find thing.

A healthy conspiracy theory. Its a momentous once in a lifetime find and maybe NASA could not keep it locked away since ISRO also has the data and would have been announced by ISRO anyway.

But seriously, I personally consider the above possible (stranger things have happened) but very unlikely.

Since ISRO gave all vilayati payloads a free ride, it should have entered into water tight agreements with all participating space agencies on joint announcements of any and all discoveries while retaining exclusive rights over Indian payloads. Where was the bania?

If the situation were reversed (Indian payload on a NASA rocket making a significant discovery) I have absolutely no doubt that there would have been a joint announcement with NASA taking the lead.

Maybe, we can fix for subsequent missions.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 25 Sep 2009 12:16

completely agree with vishwakarmaa on this. The only guy from ISRO was not even on the dias/panel which spoke to the press.

But this is not at all unexpected. As I said earlier, nothing bad about what happened - ISRO has to learn valuble PR lessons from NASA. Next time we need have these little press conferences in India, pack the stage with Indians with a lone American in a corner seat.

What stopped ISRO from doing it this time? Inability to interpret the data? or is it political? When it is a joint mission, scientist analyzed the results jointly, why should findings of individual equipments be discussed separately with media?

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 25 Sep 2009 12:28

Here is my response to the tripe being posted on the Daily mail. Let us see if it gets posted.

"Its a great achievement by the Indian space program which is targeted towards bringing economic benefits to all sections of society. It's this space program which leads fishermen to fishing spots and aids in agriculture, forest and disaster management. The current and future space endeavours are but an extension.

The Chandrayaan - 1 mission will be remembered for conclusively detecting water on the moon. Data from previous lunar missions is now being re-interpreted

India is a sovereign democratic nation and will pursue its interests because she can. For the record, like it or not, no nation holds a monopoly on scientific pursuit and discoveries.We won't listen to anyone, aid or no aid.

India's poor are her problem and not anyone else's whatever you may think and feel. There are underprivileged in your own country who will gratefully appreciate your continued attention and benevolence.

Finally, you may wish to grab a beer and order a pucca Indian takeaway tonight.

Rahul"

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 25 Sep 2009 12:29

Kailash wrote:What stopped ISRO from doing it this time? Inability to interpret the data? or is it political? When it is a joint mission, scientist analyzed the results jointly, why should findings of individual equipments be discussed separately with media?

Speaking of Indian media, they have "Gora is superior" syndrome. English speaking elites prefer taking a pat on back for 'good job' from Goras than, leading the race or even claiming their own share.

ISRO is opposite. They must be fuming right now at the arrogance of NASA or, worse, they are unaware of psy-op power of such small things.

Looking at bad-draft incident of Indo-pak meet at egypt, this might be 2nd case with ISRO. ISRO let NASA talk alone and missed the bus. Though, I still doubt if ISRO would let NASA behave in "big-daddy" way while staying out of press conference.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 25 Sep 2009 12:42

rahulm wrote:If the situation were reversed (Indian payload on a NASA rocket making a significant discovery) I have absolutely no doubt that there would have been a joint announcement with NASA taking the lead.

That makes one ask question - so, why NASA who claims that "we serve humanity", don't share data with others or invite other space agencies to take benefits of its technology?

In other words, ISRO's Multilateral Moon mission has ripped apart hypocrisy of NASA's humanity service claims. And the latest press conference of NASA passing the credit to ISRO is a clever psy-op exercise to show themselves as kind 'leaders' and hide the embarrassment of their history which is full of technology sanctions on others.

NASA's duplicity is more open than before. On one side, pass credits to ISRO in public and on other side, do everything to stop technology sharing in private.

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 25 Sep 2009 13:51

Sanjay M wrote:To those who claim that Cassini first spotted water on the Moon, this NASA press conference for M3 clearly says that it was the M3 data from the Chandrayaan-1 mission that allowed Cassini's original data to be reinterpreted as showing evidence of water. Prior to Chandrayaan-1, it was not known that the Cassini data showed water in it:.

From the conf. videos it appears that instruments on Cassini had to be calibrated over months ( to null out the signatures from earth water contamination inherent to all spacecraft ) where as the M3 instrument on CY1 was up and running almost immediately. Anyone here understands this?

Edited later to remove repeat posting of youtube videos

Raja · Post by **Raja** » 25 Sep 2009 14:06

vishwakarmaa wrote:
rahulm wrote:If the situation were reversed (Indian payload on a NASA rocket making a significant discovery) I have absolutely no doubt that there would have been a joint announcement with NASA taking the lead.
That makes one ask question - so, why NASA who claims that "we serve humanity", don't share data with others or invite other space agencies to take benefits of its technology?

In other words, ISRO's Multilateral Moon mission has ripped apart hypocrisy of NASA's humanity service claims. And the latest press conference of NASA passing the credit to ISRO is a clever psy-op exercise to show themselves as kind 'leaders' and hide the embarrassment of their history which is full of technology sanctions on others.

NASA's duplicity is more open than before. On one side, pass credits to ISRO in public and on other side, do everything to stop technology sharing in private.

Wow, do you even know what you are talking about?

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 25 Sep 2009 18:11

Kailash wrote: What stopped ISRO from doing it this time? Inability to interpret the data? or is it political? When it is a joint mission, scientist analyzed the results jointly, why should findings of individual equipments be discussed separately with media?

Today's interview from Madhavan Nair suggests that ISRO was waiting for this announcement before it could publish its results from MIP. Analyzing and interpretation takes time. Also, it could be the question of getting it published in journals such as Science. If Science would reject the article from M3, much consideration would have gone in publishing the results from MIP.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 25 Sep 2009 18:13

I'm hearing a lot of paranoid blather.

Anybody who knows scientific research knows that when researchers of a particular subject see a another research group about to make a claim on the same subject, they quickly rush to get their own claim out. What I see is that the LRO team began reporting large quantities of hydrogen under their neutron scan, and so the M3 team under Pieters quickly decided to publish their findings based on what they knew, in order not to be pipped by LRO.

What I saw from Nair's reply to a camera question was a sensibly cautious response, given the bold nature of the announcement.

kasthuri · Post by **kasthuri** » 25 Sep 2009 19:11

I kinda second Sanjay's thoughts. Press conference is a different game altogether and here it has to be supplemented by scientific research and the publishing business. Especially when getting the results in quality journals like Science, we cannot be comparing Indian pace with that of the US which might have local compulsions.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 25 Sep 2009 19:40

Seems the MIP on it's way down also confirmed water.

http://www.ndtv.com/news/sci-tech/this_ ... moment.php

I sort of did'nt like the way NDTV covers the above, neither i liked TOIs headline in todays newspapers.

But Chandrayaan clearly puts India in a scientific lead over Japan and China. I wonder why the Japanese said there is no water on the moon. Japans program looked more like making a nice HDTV movie on the moon. China only released some 2-3 pictures of Clementine quality and that too created controversy.

CY had HySI and other equipment. The volume of data is enormous and publications on that data may have just started. MIP data is to be out soon. I'm sure ISRO is watching NASA and US media. It's a good lesson and experience for ISRO indeed.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Sep 2009 19:44

Though, I too would have liked to see a joint announcement of the discovery we may have to live with his asymmetry in relations. M^3 payload was not a collaborative effort between NASA(JPL) and ISRO or any other Indian entity. So there lies the constraint. Nevertheless, the science paper on M^3 has a couple of Indian co-authors of whom one is the PI of Chandrayaan from PRL and another the mission director from ISRO. So for historical records on discovery claims there is a fair representation.

Character and Spatial Distribution of OH/H2O on the Surface of the Moon Seen by M3 on Chandrayaan-1
C. M. Pieters, J. N. Goswami, R. N. Clark, M. Annadurai, J. Boardman, B. Buratti, J.-P. Combe, M. D. Dyar, R. Green, J. W. Head, C. Hibbitts, M. Hicks, P. Isaacson, R. Klima, G. Kramer, S. Kumar, E. Livo, S. Lundeen, E. Malaret, T. McCord, J. Mustard, J. Nettles, N. Petro, C. Runyon, M. Staid, J. Sunshine, L. A. Taylor, S. Tompkins, and P. Varanasi

Now, only if the MIP instrument data were also published with this set of papers back to back in Science.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 25 Sep 2009 20:57

India hails Moon mission 'find'

Beebs just can't resist putting it in inverted commas. The moment the TOI headline came out i knew Beebs would not let it pass.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8274159.stm

Whats ridiculous is i am also seeing lots of American sources not even mentioning India's/ ISROs role while gloating over NASA finds water..why the selectiveness Beebs? And to end it all..

But the Indian government's space efforts have not been welcomed by all.

Some critics regard the space programme as a waste of resources in a country where millions still lack basic services.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 25 Sep 2009 21:06

^^

The beeb staff "designs" India articles around those concluding remarks.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 25 Sep 2009 21:08

Bade wrote:Though, I too would have liked to see a joint announcement of the discovery we may have to live with his asymmetry in relations. M^3 payload was not a collaborative effort between NASA(JPL) and ISRO or any other Indian entity. So there lies the constraint. Nevertheless, the science paper on M^3 has a couple of Indian co-authors of whom one is the PI of Chandrayaan from PRL and another the mission director from ISRO. So for historical records on discovery claims there is a fair representation.

Character and Spatial Distribution of OH/H2O on the Surface of the Moon Seen by M3 on Chandrayaan-1
C. M. Pieters, J. N. Goswami, R. N. Clark, M. Annadurai, J. Boardman, B. Buratti, J.-P. Combe, M. D. Dyar, R. Green, J. W. Head, C. Hibbitts, M. Hicks, P. Isaacson, R. Klima, G. Kramer, S. Kumar, E. Livo, S. Lundeen, E. Malaret, T. McCord, J. Mustard, J. Nettles, N. Petro, C. Runyon, M. Staid, J. Sunshine, L. A. Taylor, S. Tompkins, and P. Varanasi
Now, only if the MIP instrument data were also published with this set of papers back to back in Science.

you forgot the remaining two

Character and Spatial Distribution of OH/H2O on the Surface of the Moon Seen by M3 on Chandrayaan-1
C. M. Pieters, J. N. Goswami, R. N. Clark, M. Annadurai, J. Boardman, B. Buratti, J.-P. Combe, M. D. Dyar, R. Green, J. W. Head, C. Hibbitts, M. Hicks, P. Isaacson, R. Klima, G. Kramer, S. Kumar, E. Livo, S. Lundeen, E. Malaret, T. McCord, J. Mustard, J. Nettles, N. Petro, C. Runyon, M. Staid, J. Sunshine, L. A. Taylor, S. Tompkins, and P. Varanasi

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 25 Sep 2009 21:21

Moreover, according to Nair ISRO's own Moon Impact Probe (MIP) and Hyper-Spectral Imager (HySI) that were onboard Chandrayaan-1, too, had discovered water on the moon.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/possible-to- ... 56-11.html

BANGALORE: An indigenously developed payload (scientific instrument), the Hyper-Spectral Imager (HySI) on board Chandrayaan-1, provided inputs towards detecting water on the lunar surface, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) spokesperson S. Satish said.

A “combination” of data from the Moon Mineralogy Mapper or M3 (developed by NASA) and HySI (developed by ISRO) assisted the scientific team in establishing the presence and location of water molecules on the moon, Mr. Satish added. The two payloads were among 11 carried by the Indian mission.

According to a statement released by ISRO on Thursday night, HySI, which covers the wavelength region of 0.4 to 0.9 micron, “has also provided additional data in this regard [and] helped in a better understanding of moon’s mineral composition.” Analysis of data from other instruments on board Chandrayaan-1 is in progress, the press release added.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/09/25/stories ... 731000.htm

So MIP, HySI and M3 were all responsible. An ISRO rep should have been on the team breaking the news in the press conference at the minimum. ISRO should also come out with it's papers and analysis. ISRO looks a bit taken aback at the coverage. There's lots of sources crediting ISRO and India too. Very positive outcome indeed for ISRO. A 100% success for sure.

manoba · Post by **manoba** » 25 Sep 2009 21:31

harbans wrote:India hails Moon mission 'find'

Beebs just can't resist putting it in inverted commas. The moment the TOI headline came out i knew Beebs would not let it pass.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8274159.stm

First, you can't reason with headless chicken, especially the size of BeeBeeCee (Bird's Brain Consortium).
Second, these flu times, better distance yourself away from such sources.
Third, they make tooth fairies real, and put a coin under your pillow.

But the Indian government's space efforts have not been welcomed by all.

Some critics regard the space programme as a waste of resources in a country where millions still lack basic services.

Since eternity, the time people here coined Chandrayaan, they are using the same sentences without even changing the spaces between them.

They will be using the same for Chadrayaan-M (that is a one with three zeroes, roman numerals, mind it). Chandra yawns.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Sep 2009 21:33

rajsunder wrote:
you forgot the remaining two
Character and Spatial Distribution of OH/H2O on the Surface of the Moon Seen by M3 on Chandrayaan-1
C. M. Pieters, J. N. Goswami, R. N. Clark, M. Annadurai, J. Boardman, B. Buratti, J.-P. Combe, M. D. Dyar, R. Green, J. W. Head, C. Hibbitts, M. Hicks, P. Isaacson, R. Klima, G. Kramer, S. Kumar, E. Livo, S. Lundeen, E. Malaret, T. McCord, J. Mustard, J. Nettles, N. Petro, C. Runyon, M. Staid, J. Sunshine, L. A. Taylor, S. Tompkins, and P. Varanasi

No, I did notice the Indian names and checked. Varanasi is not affiliated with any Indian Institution. He may very well be a Indian passport holder.

S. Kumar being from NRSA must have been involved in the data acquisition part a group leader perhaps. But then there are so many from ISAC who should get credit too. The two I highlighted covers or represents the science and engineering part of the mission. There are many other unknown foot soldiers as always.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Sep 2009 21:41

harbans wrote: So MIP, HySI and M3 were all responsible. An ISRO rep should have been on the team breaking the news in the press conference at the minimum. ISRO should also come out with it's papers and analysis. ISRO looks a bit taken aback at the coverage. There's lots of sources crediting ISRO and India too. Very positive outcome indeed for ISRO. A 100% success for sure.

Yes, they should have had both the mission director and the Principal Investigator of Chandrayaan with both ISRO and NASA logo adorning the stage for the press conference, even if held here or by television link from India. Yes, NASA has not given enough thought to this protocol or went ahead with their plans.

Even the result was under embargo for a public discussion at the recent conference in Goa as per chaiwalla

. I am sure ISRO would have wanted to highlight the results there as well. You win some and lose some. But, keep this for your long term memory to be used later if need be.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Sep 2009 21:47

All said, the only genuine crib I have is why is ISRO lagging behind in their publication of results from MIP and HySI ? In such matters there should be a coordinated effort. My guess is like with sharing information on hardware details, there is an embargo (thanks to ITAR) on sharing details on algorithms and processing details. This can slow down any true collaborative effort. I am sure if not ISRO, PRL Ahmedabad has the resources to do a quick or detailed analysis to have declared a result to be in time for a joint publication of the results.

This is a matter of concern if not true, the part I am assuming about having a basement full of post-docs and graduate students to do the hard work. Or else, someone will surely steal your thunder.

tripathi · Post by **tripathi** » 25 Sep 2009 21:55

harbans wrote:Seems the MIP on it's way down also confirmed water.

http://www.ndtv.com/news/sci-tech/this_ ... moment.php

It then crashed on the lunar surface, as it was designed to do, and landed near the Shakleton crater, the spot now renamed as the Jawahar Point as this feat was completed on the birth anniversary of former Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru.

Wats with naming everything after nehru gandhi family.india has lot of ancient astronomers like Bhaskara,Lilavati, Varaha mihira, Aryabhata,Brahma gupta etc from which they can use names if not then use indian navy's naming standards.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 25 Sep 2009 22:04

Look at universities who are involved from the US, not even your regular top 10 or top 20, with exception of College Park. Where are the equivalent Indian ones for an Indian mission. This is why there had to be six foreign payloads. Not enough response to request for payload proposals. We need to fix this. Not even a single IIT as a partner for CY-I mission. Our weakness shows right there.

On another note what is DARPA doing in this list.

1 Brown University, Providence, RI 02912, USA.
2 Physical Research Laboratory, Ahmedabad, India.; Indian Space Research Organization, Bangalore, India.
3 U.S. Geological Survey, Denver, CO 80225, USA.
4 Indian Space Research Organization, Bangalore, India.
5 Analytical Imaging and Geophysics, Boulder, CO 80303, USA.
6 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA 91109, USA.
7 Bear Fight Center, Winthrop, WA 98862,USA.
8 Mt. Holyoke College, South Hadley, MA 01075, USA.
9 Applied Physics Laboratory, Laurel, MD 20723–6005, USA.
10 National Remote Sensing Agency, Hyderabad, India.
11 Applied Coherent Technology Corporation, Herndon, VA 22070, USA.
12 NASA Goddard, Greenbelt, MD 20771, USA.
13 College of Charleston, Charleston, SC 29424, USA.
14 Planetary Science Institute, Tucson, AZ 85719–2395, USA.
15 University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742, USA.
16 University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN 37996–1410, USA.
17 Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, Arlington, VA 22203, USA.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 25 Sep 2009 22:14

tripathi wrote:It then crashed on the lunar surface, as it was designed to do, and landed near the Shakleton crater, the spot now renamed as the Jawahar Point as this feat was completed on the birth anniversary of former Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru.

Atleast 'Indira' would have been better, if not astronomy geniuses. Why name on someone who gifted UNSC seat to China?

Its seems Jaswant's book is causing too much pain to them.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 25 Sep 2009 22:41

Bade wrote:Look at universities who are involved from the US, not even your regular top 10 or top 20, with exception of College Park. Where are the equivalent Indian ones for an Indian mission. This is why there had to be six foreign payloads. Not enough response to request for payload proposals. We need to fix this. Not even a single IIT as a partner for CY-I mission. Our weakness shows right there.

On another note what is DARPA doing in this list.

1 Brown University, Providence, RI 02912, USA.
2 Physical Research Laboratory, Ahmedabad, India.; Indian Space Research Organization, Bangalore, India.
3 U.S. Geological Survey, Denver, CO 80225, USA.
4 Indian Space Research Organization, Bangalore, India.
5 Analytical Imaging and Geophysics, Boulder, CO 80303, USA.
6 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA 91109, USA.
7 Bear Fight Center, Winthrop, WA 98862,USA.
8 Mt. Holyoke College, South Hadley, MA 01075, USA.
9 Applied Physics Laboratory, Laurel, MD 20723–6005, USA.
10 National Remote Sensing Agency, Hyderabad, India.
11 Applied Coherent Technology Corporation, Herndon, VA 22070, USA.
12 NASA Goddard, Greenbelt, MD 20771, USA.
13 College of Charleston, Charleston, SC 29424, USA.
14 Planetary Science Institute, Tucson, AZ 85719–2395, USA.
15 University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742, USA.
16 University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN 37996–1410, USA.
17 Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, Arlington, VA 22203, USA.

Mt. Holyoke College and College of Charleston are not even tier III I think.

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 25 Sep 2009 22:46

as a former grad student, i express my solidarity to the grad students who actually did all the work and probably did the first inference, before some tfta probessor came and stamped his/her authority all over.

congrats isro.

i hope resident word smiths from the land of brahmaputra and hoogly and other rivers, some how work the allegory of the earlier discovery of ameerkhan enroute cochin, madhya pradesh, with this jaint finding of zam zam cola in sitara-e-chand. hopefully yamyamyes can steal a thunder from the glib bigO himself, the next time they meet. something like, ha hmm, sorry, from accidently* lyanding in* the wrong place, the* biggest dumbocracy and oldest dumbocracy have* now together found water together in mooon. sorry.

* indicates potential places where yamyamyes would insert sorries and apologize.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 25 Sep 2009 22:49

shaardula wrote:as a former grad student, i express my solidarity to the grad students who actually did all the work and probably did the first inference, before some tfta probessor came and stamped his/her authority all over.

typical tenured prof behaviour.

Amit Singh · Post by **Amit Singh** » 26 Sep 2009 00:16

Indian scientists rejoice as Chandrayaan-1 traces water on moon

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news ... 049459.cms

NEW DELHI:
As news trickled out about Indian maiden lunar mission tracing water molecules on the moon's surface, scientists rejoiced at the discovery and hope that it will pave the way for growing vegetation in the earth's natural satellite in future.

"I am really very happy to know that the NASA payload on Chandrayaan-1 has traced water. If it is true then it will pave the way for growing vegetation in moon surface in five or 10 years from now," renowned scientist Y S Rajan said.

Wow, Sabzi, saag and tamatar in 10 years on moon!

"Even if there is no water in its complete H20 format, still it's a great feat. It will help make human venturing to moon a more enriching experience. Those going to moon can combine the molecule and get water.

"They can also break it and get oxygen which is a major problem for scientists in space," said Rajan, who has written the book India 2020: A Vision for the New Millennium, along with former president A P J Abdul Kalam.

??? break what into what now?

He said India's moon mission was a "great success" that proved ISRO's capability and efficiency in managing key space projects. "We have received loads of data from moon via our mission. It has certainly enriched the global scientific community."

"The moon has distinct signatures of water," top American scientist Carle Pieters confirmed on Thursday.

"The evidence of water molecules on the surface of the moon was found by the moon mineralogy mapper (M3) of the US-based National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) on board Chandrayaan-1," M3 principal investigator Pieters said in a paper published in the journal Science.

Amitabha Ghosh, space scientist at NASA, said: "This is a very, very important finding... If somehow water was found on the moon, you could use that water right out there. You could extract it."

Yeah, you could extract it. It will also be the most expensive water ever! Plus. One million ton of moon soil will produce half a litre!

"Right now, we don't know what temperature it is, and whether there is a cost effective way of extracting it," he added.

Mila Mitra, a scientist formerly associated with NASA said: "This is truly significant because it will help find any trace of life on moon."

"Now you will see more money being invested in moon missions. There might be manned moon missions. Now you will see more emphasis on such endeavours," she added.

S Chandrasekaran, another leading scientist, said: "Yes, we are very happy. I was not part of the mission so cannot give technical details but yes, the discovery is very significant. It is great and very important."

Last year, former ISRO chief K Kasturirangan had told the news agency: "For me personally, if Chandrayaan-1 manages to find evidence of water on the moon, then that would be the biggest achievement."

Chandrayaan-1 was India's first unmanned lunar probe. It was launched by the Indian Space Research Organisation in October 2008, and operated until August 2009. The spacecraft carried five Indian instruments and six from abroad, including M3 and another from NASA, three from the European Space Agency (ESA), and one from Bulgaria.

Are these really the statements of *scientists* or is the DDM really that stupid?