Does Nag communicate back?rajeshks wrote: Other differences are longer range for Nag(7-8 for air version) and Javelin has direct attack mode to target buildings and low-flying helicopters.
Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Dude's what was the issue? Why did Arun_S leave?
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Exactly, even I am wondering. I re go thru all major thread to see if i missed out something, but nothing...Willy wrote:Dude's what was the issue? Why did Arun_S leave?
-Nitin
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
No, Nag doesn't.....It's in fire & forget category.....darshan wrote: Does Nag communicate back?
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
darshan wrote:Does Nag communicate back?rajeshks wrote: Other differences are longer range for Nag(7-8 for air version) and Javelin has direct attack mode to target buildings and low-flying helicopters.
NAG missile is equipped with imaging infrared seeker (IIR), lock-on-before launch (LOBL) capability with the seeker tracking the target prior its launch. So no datalink between the missile and launcher. But I am not sure about the millimeter wave seeker Nag under development.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
News from Dinamalar Tamil daily. http://www.dinamalar.com/fpnnewsdetail.asp?News_id=5231)MISSILE TEST IN NOVEMBER - TAMIL NEWS
We are going to test Upgraded versions of PRITHVI (150 KM) , AGNI II (2300 KM) , BRAMOS (290 KM) , K 15
(700 KM RANGE) IN END nOVEMBER. THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO THE DISPLAY OF CHINESE MILITARY MIGHT during their 60th Republic day.
(I was on long holidays @ India and now I am back.)
We are going to test Upgraded versions of PRITHVI (150 KM) , AGNI II (2300 KM) , BRAMOS (290 KM) , K 15
(700 KM RANGE) IN END nOVEMBER. THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO THE DISPLAY OF CHINESE MILITARY MIGHT during their 60th Republic day.
(I was on long holidays @ India and now I am back.)
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Thats why you are not aware of the happenings here. We discussed this few days back.. Anyway welcome back.Prabu wrote: (I was on long holidays @ India and now I am back.)
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Arun_S was forced out by some eminent BRites including under threat of being sued for insulting RCji.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
that is incorrect. please do not add fuel to the fire in what is already a dicey situation.Raj Malhotra wrote:Arun_S was forced out by some eminent BRites including under threat of being sued for insulting RCji.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
If we want to learn the whole saga as to why Arun_S left, go throught the Pokhran II not fully successful: thread. I am also bit confused as to how this happened. There were lots of disagreements, accusations etc etc.nrshah wrote:Exactly, even I am wondering. I re go thru all major thread to see if i missed out something, but nothing...Willy wrote:Dude's what was the issue? Why did Arun_S leave?
-Nitin
Edited and posted the same in Feedback thread*****************************************
Last edited by sohamn on 10 Oct 2009 06:57, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
soham, if you have any inputs on the forum I suggest you delete the above and post in the appropriate place i.e forum feedback thread. I'll answer you there.
let's keep this thread restricted to the topic of its title i.e missiles.
let's keep this thread restricted to the topic of its title i.e missiles.
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
edited.
Last edited by Rahul M on 10 Oct 2009 01:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: the needless flamebait is edited out. if you have a question kindly ask in the relevant thread.
Reason: the needless flamebait is edited out. if you have a question kindly ask in the relevant thread.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Nag would be an interesting missile if it could communicate.rajeshks wrote: NAG missile is equipped with imaging infrared seeker (IIR), lock-on-before launch (LOBL) capability with the seeker tracking the target prior its launch. So no datalink between the missile and launcher. But I am not sure about the millimeter wave seeker Nag under development.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
X Posted.
Submarine launched version of Brahmos to be tested in Mid December:
India Likely to Test-Fire BrahMos Supersonic Missile in Dec
Submarine launched version of Brahmos to be tested in Mid December:
India Likely to Test-Fire BrahMos Supersonic Missile in Dec
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Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Great, of course it means that GOI has chosen to publicise it now (perhaps the junta can take it easy on MMS, now-I don't think he is a fool).
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
What a compliment!sanjaykumar wrote:Great, of course it means that GOI has chosen to publicise it now (perhaps the junta can take it easy on MMS, now-I don't think he is a fool).
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Road mobility gives Agni-5 global reach: Ajai Shukla
xtracts
xtracts
The Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) in Hyderabad, which develops India’s strategic (long-range, nuclear-tipped) missiles, has dramatically increased the options for its forthcoming Agni-5 missile by making it highly road-mobile, or easily transportable by road.
That enables the Agni-5 to reach targets far beyond its stated 5,000-km range by quickly moving closer to the target. In a hypothetical war against, say, Sweden, an Agni-5 launcher, stationed near Bangalore, would be unable to strike Stockholm, 7,000 km away. But moving by road to Amritsar would bring Stockholm within range.
Similarly, moving the Agni-5 to northeast India would bring even Harbin, China’s northernmost city, within striking range.
The Agni-5 will be the first canisterised, road-mobile missile in India’s arsenal, similar to the Dongfeng-31A that created ripples during China’s National Day Military Parade in Beijing on October 1.
In many other respects, the Agni-5, which is scheduled to make its first flight in early-2011, carries forward the Agni-3 pedigree. With composites used extensively to reduce weight, and a third stage added on (the Agni-3 was a two-stage missile), the Agni-5 can fly 1,500 km further than the 3,500-km Agni-3.
“The Agni-5 is specially tailored for road-mobility,” explains Avinash Chander, Director, ASL. “With the canister having been successfully developed, all India’s future land-based strategic missiles will be canisterised as well”.
Canister technology was first developed in India for the Brahmos cruise missile. But it was the K-15 underwater-launched missile, developed here in Hyderabad for India’s nuclear-powered submarine, INS Arihant, which fully overcame the technological hurdles in canisterising ballistic missiles.
Another major technological breakthrough that will beef up the Agni-5 is ASL’s success in developing and testing MIRVs (multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles). An MIRV, atop an Agni-5 missile, comprises three to 10 separate nuclear warheads. Each warhead can be assigned to a separate target, separated by hundreds of kilometres; alternatively, two or more warheads can be assigned to one target.
“We have made major progress on the MIRVs in the last two years,” is all that Avinash Chander is willing to say on the subject.
Nevertheless, extensive testing still lies ahead for this highly complex technology. MIRVs will be deployed on the Agni-5 only after another 4-5 years.
Strategic planners consider MIRVs essential, given India’s declared “no first use” nuclear policy. Even after an enemy has hit India with a full-fledged nuclear strike, destroying or incapacitating much of the strategic arsenal, a handful of surviving Indian missiles must be capable of retaliating with massive and unacceptable damage. Multiple warheads on a handful of Agni-5 missiles would constitute such a capability.
MIRVs also enable a single missile to overwhelm the enemy’s missile defences. Tracking and shooting down multiple warheads are far more difficult than intercepting a single warhead.
Providing each warhead with the capability to manoeuvre, and dodge enemy interceptor missiles, increases survivability further. The MIRV warheads are also being given electronic packages for jamming enemy radars.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Highlighting things which I understand now (and assuming all of it is true, which is very likely) ...
Well written. First point out that it can reach to Stockholm from Amritsar and then slide in Harbin.
Of course, that means MIRV+Agni V will be sometime in 2015/2016.
Now here are the details on DF-31A ...
1. Image of DF-31A Third Stage
http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/mi ... 31_02large
(Notice the AeroSpike Disc on the RV)
2. Image of DF-31A Launch
http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/mi ... 31_03large
3. Some snippets on DF-31A from sinodefense. http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/missile/df31.asp
Now going back to Ajai Shukla's article in Business Standard:
Jai Ho!
.nithish wrote:Road mobility gives Agni-5 global reach: Ajai Shukla
...Similarly, moving the Agni-5 to northeast India would bring even Harbin, China’s northernmost city, within striking range...
Well written. First point out that it can reach to Stockholm from Amritsar and then slide in Harbin.
So now we know what class Agni 5 really is. It is an IRBM comparable to DF-31A, which is an ICBM.... Agni-5 ... similar to the Dongfeng-31A
That sentence takes the cake. Since it proves Agni-5+MIRV > DF-31A. DF-31A is a single warhead missile carrying 1 MT. Agni 5 carrying 10 100KT bums is better than DF-31A carrying 1 MT.... beef up the Agni-5 is ASL’s success in developing and testing MIRVs (multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles). An MIRV, atop an Agni-5 missile, comprises three to 10 separate nuclear warheads.
.Nevertheless, extensive testing still lies ahead for this highly complex technology. MIRVs will be deployed on the Agni-5 only after another 4-5 years.
Of course, that means MIRV+Agni V will be sometime in 2015/2016.
Now here are the details on DF-31A ...
1. Image of DF-31A Third Stage
http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/mi ... 31_02large
(Notice the AeroSpike Disc on the RV)
2. Image of DF-31A Launch
http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/mi ... 31_03large
3. Some snippets on DF-31A from sinodefense. http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/missile/df31.asp
The limitations were on DF-31, which was *not* road mobile and had a very poor CEP. Also from the above site:This limitation, coupled with various design flaws and technical issues, led to the decision to develop an improved variant DongFeng 31A, which caused further delay in the operational deployment of the missile. A flight test of the DongFeng 31A was carried out on 4 September 2006, and the test was said to be fully successful.
Indicates that the DF-31A CEP target is at least 300 metres. It talks about stellar update system, but China has not demonstrated any type of guidance based on Stellar System.It was estimated that the DongFeng 31A had a payload of about 700kg (other source suggested between 1,050 and 1,750kg), which can be equipped with a single 1,000kT yield nuclear warhead. The maximum range of the missile is 10,700~11,200km. The missile uses an inertial guidance system that is equipped with a stellar update system, and is expected to have an accuracy of at least 300m CEP.
Now going back to Ajai Shukla's article in Business Standard:
I had earlier posted in deterance thread that MIRV is no different from launching multiple satellites. The above quote supports that view point, with an additional point that MIRV requirements are tighter. Also in slight of words, the article introduces a requirement for 40 metres of CEP. Why 40 Metres? Why not 30 Metres or why not 50 Metres or 100 Metres? In my opinion, that is the results on which our designers/scientists are confident to achieve based on injecting the multiple satellites in required orbit.While MIRV technology is similar to launching multiple satellites through a space rocket, a missile requires far greater accuracy. A satellite would be considered in correct orbit even it is a kilometre higher or lower than planned.
But each warhead in an MIRV must impact within 40 metres of its target. With such high accuracies, even small nuclear warheads are sufficient for the job.
Jai Ho!
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
The warhead of the DF-31A sort of resembles that of the Agni I.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
^^^
You mean the Re-entry vehicle and the heat sheild.
I have always wondered, why does the Agni-1 / 2 have such a long heat shield. Is it possible that there are MIRV-ed tandem warheads in that long heat shield?
You mean the Re-entry vehicle and the heat sheild.
I have always wondered, why does the Agni-1 / 2 have such a long heat shield. Is it possible that there are MIRV-ed tandem warheads in that long heat shield?
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Gagan,
Do you know if India has MIRV? As far as I know that technology has yet to be developed. India has RV, not MIRV - from what I know.
added l8r:
From the Ajai Shukla article:
Do you know if India has MIRV? As far as I know that technology has yet to be developed. India has RV, not MIRV - from what I know.
added l8r:
From the Ajai Shukla article:
Another major technological breakthrough that will beef up the Agni-5 is ASL’s success in developing and testing MIRVs (multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles). An MIRV, atop an Agni-5 missile, comprises three to 10 separate nuclear warheads.
Missed disha's post too.“We have made major progress on the MIRVs in the last two years,” is all that Avinash Chander is willing to say on the subject.
Nevertheless, extensive testing still lies ahead for this highly complex technology. MIRVs will be deployed on the Agni-5 only after another 4-5 years.
While MIRV technology is similar to launching multiple satellites through a space rocket, a missile requires far greater accuracy. A satellite would be considered in correct orbit even it is a kilometre higher or lower than planned.
But each warhead in an MIRV must impact within 40 metres of its target. With such high accuracies, even small nuclear warheads are sufficient for the job.
Strategic planners consider MIRVs essential, given India’s declared “no first use” nuclear policy. Even after an enemy has hit India with a full-fledged nuclear strike, destroying or incapacitating much of the strategic arsenal, a handful of surviving Indian missiles must be capable of retaliating with massive and unacceptable damage. Multiple warheads on a handful of Agni-5 missiles would constitute such a capability.
MIRVs also enable a single missile to overwhelm the enemy’s missile defences. Tracking and shooting down multiple warheads are far more difficult than intercepting a single warhead.
Providing each warhead with the capability to manoeuvre, and dodge enemy interceptor missiles, increases survivability further. The MIRV warheads are also being given electronic packages for jamming enemy radars.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
AFAIK,
there is no statement anywhere suggesting that India has MIRV-ed missiles.
Although there are the prithvi and Agni conventional bomblet warheads. There was also talk of MIRV-ed multiple warheads for the K-15/Sagarika (What ever that means. MIRVs on a missile that is 74 cm dia - Oh yeah - DDM at its best)
The above is just a speculation. The chinese M-9 / 11 RV has a tandem seperating warhead, where the actual warhead is 20% of the RV size, the RV is supposed to trail the warhead all along the reentry, a few meters away. It was assumed that the larger RV behind the warhead will make for a more suitable target in case of interception, allowing the warhead to hit the target.
The length of the Agni RV is unusually long I think. Surely there must be electronic jamming equipment in there, possibly decoys . But still its size intrigues me.
there is no statement anywhere suggesting that India has MIRV-ed missiles.
Although there are the prithvi and Agni conventional bomblet warheads. There was also talk of MIRV-ed multiple warheads for the K-15/Sagarika (What ever that means. MIRVs on a missile that is 74 cm dia - Oh yeah - DDM at its best)
The above is just a speculation. The chinese M-9 / 11 RV has a tandem seperating warhead, where the actual warhead is 20% of the RV size, the RV is supposed to trail the warhead all along the reentry, a few meters away. It was assumed that the larger RV behind the warhead will make for a more suitable target in case of interception, allowing the warhead to hit the target.
The length of the Agni RV is unusually long I think. Surely there must be electronic jamming equipment in there, possibly decoys . But still its size intrigues me.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Agni-1/2/3 RV has self contained liquid fuel , engine , guidance plus warhead , making it a Active ,Manouverable RV giving it longer range and unpredictable trajectory( compared to pure ballistic passive RV ) making ABM defence complex.Gagan wrote:^^^
I have always wondered, why does the Agni-1 / 2 have such a long heat shield. Is it possible that there are MIRV-ed tandem warheads in that long heat shield?
Hence the long heat shield and long RV
Added Later: Looking at Chinese RV , it looks like a all carbon composite , warhed , guidance powered RV similar to Agni-2/3 , the RV like Agni-3 RV has high beta RV design using carbon-carbon nose tip indicating its designed for high speed reentry and long range.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
India does *not* have MIRV-ed missiles. Not yet. From Ajai's interview with Mr. Avinash Chander (ASL), it appears that MIRV capability will be demonstrated circa 2015/2016. That is if all ducks are lined in row and everything quacks on cue, then Agni V will be demonstrated in 2011 and 4/5 years after that MIRV. Note that "major progress" has been made. But what kind of progress is under wraps. From what is publicly demonstrated (and available), It is possible to "simulate" MIRV but we are not yet at a stage to demonstrate MIRV. This would mean that breakthrough has been made in hosts of technologies (eg. Star Sensor based guidance, single bus for multiple payloads, inertial guidance system, injection algorithms etc), though its integration is going to be a challenge.Gagan wrote:AFAIK,
there is no statement anywhere suggesting that India has MIRV-ed missiles.
It is a maneuverable warhead and hence it is long. If you look at some of A-III launch photos, there is a ring of red nitrous oxide gas around the RV base indicating presence of a liquid engine.The above is just a speculation. The chinese M-9 / 11 RV has a tandem seperating warhead, where the actual warhead is 20% of the RV size, the RV is supposed to trail the warhead all along the reentry, a few meters away. It was assumed that the larger RV behind the warhead will make for a more suitable target in case of interception, allowing the warhead to hit the target.
The length of the Agni RV is unusually long I think. Surely there must be electronic jamming equipment in there, possibly decoys . But still its size intrigues me.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
The HAM.disha wrote:If you look at some of A-III launch photos, there is a ring of red nitrous oxide gas around the RV base indicating presence of a liquid engine.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Yes, forgot about the nameGagan wrote:The HAM.disha wrote:If you look at some of A-III launch photos, there is a ring of red nitrous oxide gas around the RV base indicating presence of a liquid engine.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Breaking News: Prithvi-II successfully test fired:DRDO
BALASORE: India's highly sophisticated and nuclear capable short-range ballistic missile (SRBM) Prithvi-2 was successfully test fired on Monday from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur near Balasore in Orissa.
Sources in Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) had earlier said that the test would be part of the user's trial.
The test was conducted by a special contingent raised by the Indian army.
Prithvi-2 missile is single stage liquid propelled and is equipped with inertial navigation system. The missile is about nine meters in length and one meter in diameter. The missile can carry conventional or nuclear warheads.
BALASORE: India's highly sophisticated and nuclear capable short-range ballistic missile (SRBM) Prithvi-2 was successfully test fired on Monday from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur near Balasore in Orissa.
Sources in Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) had earlier said that the test would be part of the user's trial.
The test was conducted by a special contingent raised by the Indian army.
Prithvi-2 missile is single stage liquid propelled and is equipped with inertial navigation system. The missile is about nine meters in length and one meter in diameter. The missile can carry conventional or nuclear warheads.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Is that a joke by Mr. Shukla? In the event of a war with China, how are we really going to move the missile by road from Bangalore to the NE?nithish wrote:Road mobility gives Agni-5 global reach: Ajai Shukla
xtracts
The Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) in Hyderabad, which develops India’s strategic (long-range, nuclear-tipped) missiles, has dramatically increased the options for its forthcoming Agni-5 missile by making it highly road-mobile, or easily transportable by road.
That enables the Agni-5 to reach targets far beyond its stated 5,000-km range by quickly moving closer to the target. In a hypothetical war against, say, Sweden, an Agni-5 launcher, stationed near Bangalore, would be unable to strike Stockholm, 7,000 km away. But moving by road to Amritsar would bring Stockholm within range.
Similarly, moving the Agni-5 to northeast India would bring even Harbin, China’s northernmost city, within striking range.
2000 km by road!
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Mayuresh wrote: Is that a joke by Mr. Shukla? In the event of a war with China, how are we really going to move the missile by road from Bangalore to the NE?
2000 km by road!
But why do you think the missile will be based in "Bangalore only"? Its just an example.. dont read it too 'literally'
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
he is trying to point out the advantages of a road/rail mobile missile as compared to a fixed silo based one to the generally clueless Indian reader. no need to shoot him for that.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Let us take a step back here and analyze when we are going to start inducting A-IIIs into the armed forces, how many and how fast are we planning to make and deploy them.
Also If they have perfected the MIRV, mobility and canister technology, why not apply it on A3 and A3SL and quick do 2-3 tests of each? A strong deterrence against the Chinese is as much a function of time as capability.
Also If they have perfected the MIRV, mobility and canister technology, why not apply it on A3 and A3SL and quick do 2-3 tests of each? A strong deterrence against the Chinese is as much a function of time as capability.
Last edited by Kailash on 12 Oct 2009 12:31, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Moving 200km by road will take days.rakall wrote:Mayuresh wrote: Is that a joke by Mr. Shukla? In the event of a war with China, how are we really going to move the missile by road from Bangalore to the NE?
2000 km by road!
But why do you think the missile will be based in "Bangalore only"? Its just an example.. dont read it too 'literally'
A better idea would be to reduce the size of warhead to increase the range.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
How many Prithvis we test actually? We are testing these from decades I believe.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
why do people think he is talking of literally 'moving' the missile to fire it ?
even after rakall explained it ?
even after rakall explained it ?
there's more to it than meets the eye.How many Prithvis we test actually? We are testing these from decades I believe.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Rahul M, can you explain what you mean by there's more to it. Thanks.
Re: Indian Missile Technology Discussion
Two prithvi's were test fired with 5 mins gap