India-China News and Discussion

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 23 Oct 2009 00:29

Indian journalist (guess who) tells Tibet's reality, slaps separatists' lies: Xinhua

A famous Indian journalist and publisher revealed the true reality of China's Tibet here on Thursday, refuting lies made by the Dalai Lama and his separatist followers.
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"Unnamed Tibetan exile sources said that up to a hundred, if not hundreds of, people died in the March-April 2008 riots; and that Chinese security forces cracked down on or brutalized unarmed protesters or opened fire on crowds of civilians," Ram said.
"The reality is the riot that broke out in Lhasa on March 14, 2008 claimed a confirmed toll of 18 innocent civilian lives, and it was the handiwork of violent, thuggish, ransacking mobs (of monks)," he said.
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"Nobody in their right mind could accuse the Chinese central government - with its sights set firmly on economic development, political stability, and 'building a harmonious society' and just ahead of the August 2008 Beijing Olympics - of any new set of suppressive measures, political, economic, social, or cultural, against the 2.6 million ethnic Tibetans who constitute more than 92 percent of the 2.87 million population of the Tibet Autonomous Region (TAR) or against the 3.9 million Tibetans who live in other Chinese provinces and regions outside TAR," he said. sounds like a PRC drone

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 23 Oct 2009 01:26

^ That would be our very own Naxal Ram from the Hindu. He is known to have gone on many PRC sponsored trips to Tibet & the Middle Kingdom and written up fawning articles to earn his pay

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 23 Oct 2009 07:45

China, India Stoke 21st-Century Rivalry

Nothing new, just a compilation of facts and events. But the comments are quite interesting; worth producing the ones which appeared almost as soon as the article was posted!

Another propaganda article from whitemen trying to sow suspicion, hatred and magnify whatever small crack between India and China. The ultimate goal is to coerce China and India into open war or at least prevent China and India to unite. This is British, French and now EU and US strategy, their nightmare is a unite China and India in Asia.
About every 6 months, I saw at least one propaganda article like this from WSJ, FEER (bankrupt), Businessweek (same boss), CNN or Fox News. It is a co-ordinate effort prevent China and India from working together.
But history speak for itself, China and India are neighbour for the last 10,000 years and they are basically peaceful neighbour. China and India never try to conquer each other since recorded history by human. From China point of view, India is a peace loving nation and the co-operation between the 2 races strecth over 5000 years. Both countries know the real threat are those coloniser from the west that like to talk about human rights while they are butchering Iraqi.

This is a diabolical plan by hegemonic imperialist(s) trying to create animosity between the two nations. India and China must be vigilant, and must know that danger lurks around them. India and China will not fall into this trap.

While their state propaganda m/c writes stuff like this Dalai Lama goes further down traitorous road, and Indian hegemony continues to harm relations with neighbors.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 23 Oct 2009 13:36

It is an old strategy of China of creating distance between India and US by trying to unite India and China under anti US (West) rhetoric. But China is heavily linked to the same "imperialists" economically.
India's outreach to US (perhaps vice versa) changed the India US , China triangle which China was exploiting to the hilt earlier. China can stop arming Pakistan and North Korea to establish its credentials.

Currently reading a book on India and China published in 2004. Talks about the disdain the Chinese have for India. Well, India is not going away, is it?

Another related story which was probably posted earlier.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_ch ... nk_1291141

China uneasy about India's rise: Think-tank

New York: A United States think-tank has said that China's recent aggression along the Indian border is a direct result of Beijing's ''nervousness over India's rise".

"It's something that they have to deal with, that perhaps 10 to 15 years ago they didn't believe was something that was necessary to focus on," said Lisa Curtis of the Heritage Foundation.

"We saw this when they to tried scuttle, at the last minute, the civil nuclear deal [with the United States] at the Nuclear Supplier Group meeting last year. It was a sort of indication that China is not completely comfortable with India's rise on the world stage," said Curtis.

Umrao Das · Post by **Umrao Das** » 23 Oct 2009 13:42

We can expect PRC to attack India according some good strategic thinkers by NOV this year.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 23 Oct 2009 13:45

Umrao Das wrote:We can expect PRC to attack India according some good strategic thinkers by NOV this year.

Well, they have been attacking us every month since 1959 in some way or the other. What's different this time round? Unless they are looking at invading and holding Indian territory this time round, nothing unusual, I would say.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 23 Oct 2009 19:47

I had the good fortune to play a spot of table cricket with Mr.N.Han of the CHindu recently.Our verbal duel across the table was a to be a warm up before the forthcoming November test being played on the controversial grounds of Tawang,which was to be the first "test" between the Middle Kingdom and India in recent times.Han would represent the PRC and I for India.

Han was immaculately dressed in his Armani Mao suit stroking a corgi by his foot, which had a diamond studded Cartier collar around its neck.Han opened the attack from the Mount Rd. end with a short run up screeching at me that India was being outrageously provocative and needlessly tickling the Dragon in its nether orifice by having in its team the "splittist" Dalai ,who shouldn't be playing in AP and Tawang at all,which is really called S.Tibet,famous for its traditional Chinese restaurants.

I countered,"but Dr.Singh says AP, is an Indian club,so wasn't that actually provocative of China ?", as I dived for cover at the Wallajah end. No,snarled Han,"the good peddlar of snake-oil is a dangerous reptile and capitalist spittist",as he sent down his next ball ,a bouncer.

"But we have just had elections in AP and the Congress has won a landslide victory there",I squeaked as I ducked."Landslide?", Han spat into a Sung spitoon."Yes,there will be a landslide comrade,a victory for the Middle Kingdom in the forthcoming hustings" he smirked, as I hurriedly kept his yorker out of my stumps .

Han's next ball was a beamer."If the Dalai plays in Ta-wang,the dragon will create a mighty bang" he warned.

"Is that what you predcit in Frontline?" I asked, as I swayed out of harm's way towards square leg.

"The Frontline will be at Sikkim,where India's pointing finger will be sliced off", he excitedly shrieked, bowling wide off the stumps.

I took a run in relief only to find that I would be facing the next hostile over from veteran Sino-phile, PS Cha from the other end.Fortunately Cha was rather long in the run up and his style quite predictable,wanting to keep the runs down,instead of taking wickets.

I was lucky to survive the day's play not out.However,Han's report of the match in the Chindu the next morning went like this.Headlines screeched thus:

"India sure to lose to China in the S.Tibet test,as the Chinese umpire says that the Dalai Lama must be banned from playing ,because of substance abuse (yak butter in his tea)."

Marxist star K.Rat wrote that Dr.Singh's "tur-banned" too.He cannot spin the ball at all because of his frozen fingers in the icy Himalayas and the secret of Dragonfire is known only to the Chinese team.

Opener AKAnthony's defence is apalling.His three chief fielders openly say that they cannot compete with China's attack and are outnumbered by Sino supporters.

Chinese captain Wen says that Singh will retreat to New Dalian in haste after the Indian team is laid waste by superior Sinophiles in his team like Han,Cha,K.Rat and Shit-Rum Ye-Choo-Lee.He will face a firing squad from the Indian team's Italian,mafia queen,Sonia G.

Before the Tawang test starts a meeting in ASEAN territory will be held for the tradition of the "toss".The ritual is eagerly awaited to see who blinks first,Singh or Wen and when the two teams are announced.The bookies are playing it safe with short odds on Singh winning the toss and that the Dalai will be playing at Tawang (insider info).Odds are heavily againt the test lasting 5 days because of inclement weather from the land of the dragon.Meteorite showers expected during the test,accompanied by landslides,heavy snowfire and very icy conditions.The BCCI has protested to the ICC about the presence of Chinese chuckers and substance abuse ("Hu's Gin") in the drinks trolley of Chinese team to beat the cold war fast approaching.

Tickets are available at New Dalian's famous Great Palace of the People (formerly known as the Lok Sabha).

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 23 Oct 2009 19:48

China, India Stoke 21st-Century Rivalry

WSJ story, some interesting titbits.

Some two-dozen Chinese soldiers converged earlier this year on a family of nomads who wouldn't budge from a winter grazing ground that locals say Indian herders had used for generations. China claims the pasture is part of Tibet, not northern India. The soldiers tore up the family's tent and tried to push them back toward the Indian border town of Demchok, Indian authorities say.

Chering Dorjay, the chairman of India's Ladakh Autonomous Hill Development Council, says he arrived on the scene with a new tent and Indian intelligence officers and urged the herders to stay put. "The Chinese, it seems, are gradually taking our territory," he says. "We will feel very insecure unless India strengthens its defenses."

Chinis grabbing territory on the sly is no new thing too, it seems.

Strengthen our defenses == agni V MIRVed and tested and massproduced and deployed on Air, land, sea and undersea. Perhaps space too.

Indian villagers near the border have been caught in the middle of the conflict. When villagers were constructing an irrigation canal a few years ago, Chinese soldiers tried to wave them off, says Rigzin Spalbar, chairman at the time of the Ladakh Autonomous Hill Development Council.

The villagers hurled abuse at the soldiers, but were angry at Indian soldiers for doing nothing, he says. The Chinese "are pestering us to test India's reaction," he says.

Indian residents of the area claim Chinese soldiers have painted Chinese characters on rocks in territory that India claims as its own. The residents say the border has never been as tightly patrolled as it is now.

More of the same same.

Now....drumroll please...pls brace yourself for the money quote - the golden quote from the entire article....

"China is trying to become No. 1," says Brajesh Mishra, a former national-security adviser for India. "This is the seed of conflict between China, India and the U.S."

Such sheer insight...only sri sri brajesh misra jee could have come up with something so fantastically profound. No, really. where are the sarc tags when you need them?

In addition to the defense concerns, trade friction is growing between India and China. India leads all members of the World Trade Organization in antidumping cases against China. India has banned imports of Chinese toys, milk and chocolate, citing safety concerns, and has launched investigations into export surges of Chinese truck tires and chemicals, among other products.

On Oct. 15, Indian heavy-industries minister Vilasrao Deshmukh asked the finance ministry to impose taxes on imports of inexpensive Chinese power equipment. "We don't want India to be turned into a dumping ground," he told reporters.

Good! Kicking commie musharraf out of the steering committee nonsense of UPA-I is already showing results where it counts. Could we also quietly astop exporting raw materials like bauxite and iron ore of good quality to the chinis please? Treat them as what they are - a threat. And stop being apologetic about it.

The Indian government has closely scrutinized proposals by Chinese companies to invest in India. It recently demanded that thousands of Chinese citizens in India convert short-term business visas into employment visas -- a move that effectively boots unskilled Chinese workers from the country.

Good. Can't see sri D Raja or Sri karat being happy about it but too bad. Their happiness is not my concern. Has the chindu already railed editorial campaigns against yindia's trade discrimination against the chinese yet?

But many Chinese resent any comparison with India, still a largely poor agrarian nation with only about one-third of China's per-capita income. And they're generally wary of India's warming ties with the U.S.

Resent my foot. Glad to know chinis are all too willing to ignore ground realities that don't match with their prejudices and resentments. I'd be even more happy to help mail them ever more mandarin subtitled versions of slumdqawg millionaire so that they never turn their focused energies this way.

Read it all.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Oct 2009 19:52

end Nov is the scheduled date of Dalai Lama visit to Tawang.

if he is 'indisposed' and chooses to postpone his visit, will be a clear indication yindu backed down and slunk
away with tail between legs.

sum · Post by **sum** » 23 Oct 2009 22:20

Singha wrote:end Nov is the scheduled date of Dalai Lama visit to Tawang.

if he is 'indisposed' and chooses to postpone his visit, will be a clear indication yindu backed down and slunk
away with tail between legs.

I for on have no doubt that the visit wont happen...

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 24 Oct 2009 01:57

From the Chindu, posting in full. Note that it is datelined from Hua Hin

Manmohan to seek end to verbal duelling with China

Hua Hin: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao will meet here on the sidelines of the 15th Asean summit on Saturday morning in an attempt to put an end to the infelicitous and even sharp exchange of words between the two sides in recent weeks.

Beginning with exaggerated Indian media reports of an alleged increase in Chinese incursions along the undemarcated Line of Actual Control, the rhetoric has now taken on a life of its own with government-run newspapers in Beijing accusing India of “hegemony,” Indian analysts making dire predictions of conflict, and senior Chinese officials making repeated public demarches about Arunachal Pradesh as part of their claim that the Indian state is actually a part of Tibet.

Although the immediate focus of China’s assertive pronouncements and actions is apparently Arunachal and also Jammu and Kashmir — the Chinese embassy in Delhi recently began issuing visas to the State’s residents on a separate sheet of paper rather than stamping their Indian passports — the war of words has cast a shadow over not just the ongoing boundary negotiations but also the positive long-term trend in bilateral relations between the two countries.

Indian officials say the Prime Minister is keen to continue the positive momentum and work with China to give greater depth to the ‘strategic and economic partnership’ and that he hopes Premier Wen will agree that the two countries need to find ways of preventing differences over the boundary spilling over into other areas.

At the heart of the recent deterioration in optics is the proposed visit to Arunachal Pradesh by the Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of the Tibetan Buddhists and a man Beijing reviles as a separatist bent on pushing for the independence of the Chinese province.

The Indian side has said repeatedly and publicly that the Dalai Lama is a guest and is free to visit any part of the country he wishes. Though there is no indication that New Delhi will rethink its position, senior officials say the intention is not to score points over China or to use the visit in order to underline the status of Arunachal Pradesh as an integral part of India.

Indeed, one official told The Hindu that the wider politics of the Dalai Lama’s visit to Tawang were complicated. China, after all, cites the monastic connection between Tawang and Tibet as the basis for its claim to the town and state, a connection that would be reinforced by the Dalai Lama’s forthcoming visit. During his visit to the monastery there in 2003, the Dalai Lama had in fact said he believed Tawang was a part of Tibet. Since then, the Tibetan spiritual leader has said he accepts the McMahon line, which forms the basis for the Indian demarcation of the Sino-Indian border. Some officials believe the Chinese fear is that the Dalai Lama may use the occasion of his visit to Tawang to declare the town to be an integral part of India.

As matters stand, it is not clear when the Dalai Lama will make the journey or whether he has applied for and received an inner line permit that all foreigners in India need to visit Arunachal Pradesh. His advisers initially said the Tibetan spiritual leader would travel to the State on November 8 but now maintain the dates have not yet been finalised.

Crawling when asked to bend ...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2009 02:38

Singha wrote:end Nov is the scheduled date of Dalai Lama visit to Tawang.

if he is 'indisposed' and chooses to postpone his visit, will be a clear indication yindu backed down and slunk
away with tail between legs.

Its supposed to be Nov 8th.

From Nightwatch, 10/22/09

India: The Dalai Lama will make a weeklong visit to an Indian state bordering China, Reuters reported 22 October. His aide, Tenzin Taklha, said the Dalai Lama will fly directly from Guwahati to Tawang on 8 November.

China said it "firmly opposes" the Dalai Lama's plans to travel to Arunachal Pradesh State in northeast India. Indian states are integral to the country

This visit will aggravate relations between India and China. The Indians gave permission to the Dalai Lama, compelling the conclusion they are prepared to accept the negative blowback from China. They appear to be provoking China deliberately.

Lets see how it happens. If GOI gave permission why are fellow travellers like PS Jha making it appear the His Holiness is the one precipitating the issues?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 24 Oct 2009 02:47

X-posting from http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 40#p760340

Harking back on history to make expansionist moves is a dangerous game. If India is to take a lesson from China, it can also make a lot of unsettling noises on China. That Chinese emperors were beholden to Great Ashoka is well known. Less publicised are the facts that the Chinese emperors used to pay tributes and send emissaries with lavish gifts to the courts of the glorious Kushana emperor Kanishka in the second century AD, in the third and fourth century to the great Samudragupta and Chandragupta Vikramaditya and later emperor Harsha. At one point the great Kanishka even defeated and forced the Chinese ruler accept his suzerainty.

if this is true, then here are our historical reasons to lay claim on China

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2009 04:03

MMS to meet PRC leaders in Bangkok on ASEAN sidelines tomorrow. Will know what happens by tomorrow's eve.

I think an opening of vast Indian markets to PRC will be on table in return for quiet borders. Lets see.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 24 Oct 2009 04:41

No apologies even if posted before.

Pollution in China.

Warning: Some images are disturbing.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Oct 2009 04:48

^^^ Good link Jaspreet.

Jai Ho of China and needs wide publicity.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 24 Oct 2009 05:33

I think an opening of vast Indian markets to PRC will be on table in return for quiet borders. Lets see.

One of the main reasons for China's belligerence. But one that is not much talked about in the media. However Indian industry is not about to cave in either. And that is where the sudden spine of the Indian side is coming from.

China needs India's market badly. There's a lot more low end trash in PRC factories that can be sold to a newly emergent lower lower middle class market in India (forgive the usage).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Oct 2009 07:31

and india's lax laws will ensure all sorts of harmful stuff get in.

ET:
Foreigners require employment visas to work in India
23 Oct 2009, 1718 hrs IST, Ishani Duttagupta, Shantanu Nandan Sharma & Mahima Puri, ET Bureau

NEW DELHI: India is sticking to its guns on new visa rules that require foreigners to get employment visas if they have to work in the country,

even as the measure-aimed mainly at low-skilled Chinese workers-inflicts collateral damage on thousands of expats from other countries engaged in white-collar jobs.

Hundreds of hassled senior and mid-level executives of several multinational companies are scrambling to comply with the new requirement and get their business visas converted to work visas while industry bodies take up their cause with the government.

Through a series of circulars in August and September, India modified rules, making it compulsory for those entering the country on 180-day business visas to have these converted into employment visas if they must work here. Expat workers have been set an October 31 deadline to leave the country and re-apply for work visas from their country of origin.

“About 3,000 foreign nationals have reapplied for visas in the right category now. Those who fail to get it must leave the country by October 31. After all, if a foreign national is employed in India, he must have the right kind of visa,” home secretary GK Pillai told ET.

The rule change was aimed mainly at the close to 25,000 low-skilled Chinese workers who are in India on business visas but working for their employers executing projects in the power, telecom and oil & gas sectors.

Ashish Bharat Ram, managing director of diversified company SRF Ltd, said industry appreciates the government’s concerns on sensitive immigration issues, but care has to be taken to ensure that “impact on the overall economic progress is minimised.” He suggested that the government could consider allowing foreign professionals to work in India as long as their business visas are valid instead of requiring them to leave by the month-end. His company, along with Ford India, Jindal Poly Films Ltd and Polyplex Corporation has taken up the issue of expat workers with an industry grouping so that their views are conveyed to the government. Mr Bharat Ram observed that asking expat workers to leave at short notice leaves little time to make alternative arrangements to replace critical human resources. Even in cases where replacements can be found, huge extra costs will be incurred retraining and integrating them into projects at short deadlines.

Estimates by tax consultants and immigration lawyers put the numbers of expats who have received notices to leave the country immediately at over 1,500, excluding low-skilled Chinese workers.

ET spoke to three employees who have been affected by the new rules, but none of them wanted to speak on record for this report. All of them were preparing to leave the country and though they want to come back, they fear that there will be delays in getting the new category of visas. India has said it will issue replacement work visas within 45 days.

The changed rules also come with new tax implications. Often these individuals were paid in their home countries despite working in India. Now their income, regardless of where the payment is made, is subject to Indian taxation, said Poorvi Chothani, a Mumbai-based immigration lawyer and managing member of LawQuest.

Vikas Vasal, executive director of consultancy firm KPMG, is of the view that the changes should have been made effective from a prospective date so that those already in the country would not be impacted. “India is now a global economic player and to give marching orders to executives who are already here, often with their families, does not send out the right signals,” he said

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Oct 2009 07:32

seems there was a group clash between chinese workers and locals in bihar that prompted the GOI to crackdown and take a close look.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2009 07:47

D Roy and folks think I am a jingo onlee. Thanks for confirming the view.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Oct 2009 07:49

looking at the pollution essay pics, the only parallel can be drawn to comic books like the industrial planet of Apokolips which has the same look and oppressed serfs, all ruled by the tyrant Darkseid.

I do not think any other parallel exists on earth except a few soviet union, rumanian and czech towns who were similarly raped by heavy industry.

good luck to the innocents who are caught under the wheels of wal mart capitalism. 1 billion people ruled by Darkseid with no escape is not a happy sight.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 24 Oct 2009 08:05

good luck to the innocents who are caught under the wheels of wal mart capitalism. 1 billion people ruled by Darkseid with no escape is not a happy sight.

Am reminded of lyrics from Bob Dylan's "Blowin' in the wind"

How many years can a mountain exist/before it is washed to the sea?//
How many years can a people exist, before they're allowed to be free?//
How many times can a man turn his head, and pretend he just doesn't see?//
The answer my friend/ is blowin' in the wind/thge answer is blowin' in the wind//

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Oct 2009 12:14

Some friends who have visited China recently were appalled by the pollution in the Yangtse and other rivers.The Chinese economy is over inflated and hyped beyond reason just as like the US housing entities which triggered the collapse of the US economy and the global recession.Just as the Paki state has started to disintegrate,so too will the "Great Wall" of PRC suddenly crumble,and unfortunately bring down the world economy with it as China offloads its mass of western "paper" to cover its debts.A leading western mag recently had a cover feature wherein it showd how China was "buying up" major international entities,possibly controlling countries in the bargain.One can imagine the chaos when China offloads its declining assets in the west.

Here's Britian in current crisis.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/fina ... ashed.html
Britain's hopes of escaping recession dashed

More news on Chinese cyber hackers,practising for a future cyber-war, who have close links to the Chinese govt.

China 'building cyberwarfare capability' US report claims

China is building its cyberwarfare capabilities and appears to be using the growing technical abilities to collect US intelligence through a sophisticated and long-term computer attack campaign, according to an independent report.

Published: 7:00AM BST 22 Oct 2009

The study, released by a congressional advisory panel, found cases suggesting that China's elite hacker community has ties to the Beijing government, although there is little hard evidence.

The commission report details a cyberattack against a US company several years ago that appeared to either originate in or come through China and was similar to other incidents also believed to be connected to the country.

Hackers recruited to fight 'new cold war'

Britain could be shut down by hackers from China, intelligence experts warn
China's global cyber-espionage network GhostNet penetrates 103 countriesAccording to the analysis, the company noticed that over several days, data from its network was being sent to multiple computers in the US and overseas.

While the report does not identify the company, it contends that the attackers targeted specific data, suggesting a very coordinated and sophisticated operation by people who had the expertise to use the high-tech information.

An internet protocol (IP) address located in China was used at times during the episode.

Barring proof, the study by the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission warns that the sort of expansive and sophisticated computer resources that have been seen in cyberattacks on the US and other countries "is difficult at best without some type of state sponsorship."

The study contends that the Chinese, long reported to be stoking a massive military build up, has also made computer warfare a priority.

The Chinese government is said to view such cyberprowess as critical for victory in future conflicts - similar to the priority on offensive cyber abilities stressed by some U.S. officials.

Potential Chinese targets in the US, according to the report, would likely include Pentagon networks and databases to disrupt command and control communications, and possibly corrupt encrypted data.

The report notes, however, that penetrating such classified systems would be time consuming and difficult.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... laims.html

Nitesh · Post by **Nitesh** » 24 Oct 2009 13:10

interesting:

Hunger Scorecard: China Improves, India Deteriorates - BusinessWeek

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Oct 2009 17:14

China executes Tibetan demonstrators.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 886727.ece

Tibetan protesters executed for Lhasa riot killings
(Reuters)
A protester burns a Chinese flag during a protest in the Tibetan capital, Lhasa, on March 14 last year

Tibetan exiles have reported the first executions of those convicted for rioting last year in Lhasa, with at least two people put to death in a rare implementation of capital punishment in the restive region.

Two Tibetans convicted of arson and sentenced to death in April were executed on Tuesday morning in Lhasa, reported The Tibetan Centre for Human Rights and Democracy, which is based in the Indian town of Dharamsala — the home in exile of the Dalai Lama.

It said that Lobsang Gyaltsen and Loyak had been sentenced to death for their part in setting fire to five shops in the Tibetan capital, killing seven people, in the riot that rocked Lhasa in March last year. Officials say that 21 people — including three Tibetan protesters — died in the violence, which embarrassed Beijing just as it was preparing to stage the Olympic Games and prompted a security crackdown across the Himalayan region.

The body of Mr Gyaltsen had been returned to his family and then submitted to a river burial — an unusual form of funeral rite that is more common in southeastern Tibet. Sky burial is the usual ceremony in Lhasa. The ashes of Loyak were returned to his family, the centre said.

Related Links
Lockdown in Tibet as Chinese police brace
Tibetans jailed for arson killings in Lhasa
Death sentences for Tibetan protesters

The centre reported that two other people may also have been executed. One had been sentenced to death, suspended for two years, a form that in almost all cases amount to life in prison. The fourth had been jailed for life.

The use of the death penalty has been extremely rare in Tibet over the past two decades, apparently amid anxiety that such punishments could set off renewed outbursts of anti-Chinese unrest.

In September 1987 two Tibetans were executed after a public rally in the Lhasa sports stadium that 14,000 people — mostly government workers — were required to attend. While those executed were convicted of ordinary criminal offences, the timing was thought to have been intended to convey a political message to Tibetans, since it came only a week after the Dalai Lama had publicised a peace plan in Washington.

Within days, Lhasa erupted in violence when Tibetans rushed through the streets calling on the Chinese to leave Tibet and setting fire to a police station opposite the Jokhang Temple in the city centre on October 1. More riots followed in early 1988 and in 1989, when martial law was imposed in the city.

The next executions were not until 1990 when two Tibetans accused of planning to escape from prison after receiving suspended death sentences on murder charges were shot by firing squad. Internal court documents showed that the pair had also started a pro-independence cell while in prison, along with other inmates.

The only other reported executions came during a nationwide crackdown on crime in 1996. State media said that 29 people, including 18 Tibetans, were put to death in various Tibetan cities. Across China, more than 2,200 people were executed in the "Strike Hard" campaign.

In the only politically linked execution to be publicly acknowledged, Lobsang Dondup a nomad, was executed in January 2003 in a Tibetan area of neighbouring Sichuan province for a series of bomb attacks over the previous four years

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 24 Oct 2009 18:57

Hi Ramana,

I always follow your posts closely ( though you should make them a bit longer sometimes

) and you along with Gerard are two people I have always respected on this forum.

Coming back to the topic. The Chinese state is pretty corporatised in some respects. And the mercantile group is actually closer to the PLA. So the conventional wisdom that says that things between India and China will become hunky dory due to increasing trade has got hold of the stick from the wrong end altogether.

For the new age chinese ( must have learnt it from the goras) war is a continuation of profiteering by other means...

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 24 Oct 2009 19:09

Wen and MMS have met up. Seems no mention of AP or the Dalai's trip to AP. So far India has maintained that the Dalai is free to travel. With China only a tough pro active stand will work.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 155933.cms

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 24 Oct 2009 20:29

Geo-Strategic Chessboard Pushing India Towards War With China

China Daily: China, India agree to narrow border differences

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Oct 2009 20:38

atleast 6 uighurs have been sentenced to death so far for urumqi riots. more will surely follow.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 24 Oct 2009 20:48

Time China vs. India: Rivalry at the Top of the World

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 24 Oct 2009 22:10

Dalai Lama's visit to Arunachal scheduled from 8-15 November.

Read more here

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 24 Oct 2009 22:47

Both countries are still absorbed in a game played in miniature: recently, for example, a Kashmiri student was given a Chinese visa that was stapled rather than pasted into his passport, an implicit questioning of Kashmir's status as a state of India. Indian authorities, Guruswamy says, then quietly suggested they might do the same for Tibetans. Sure, this is small stuff. But it could get bigger. And high in the Himalayas, soldiers continue their patrols.

What visa status do the current Tibetans have in India ? Do they carry Chinese passports ? Such an Indian official reaction was not reported before in other media. First time I am hearing of a possible tit for tat.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 24 Oct 2009 22:52

IMO, the tit for tat with respect to Kashmiris given paper visas, should be with Xinjiang residents and not Tibetans. Tibetans should be given visa free access or given Tibetan passports issued from Dharmasala with an Indian visa on arrival.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 24 Oct 2009 22:54

^ Indeed a breath of fresh air, if that was suggested. India should not disallow the Dalai lama also. The Tibet card is very critical to India. Despite past pronouncements, India should make it clear or let it slip out that statements or treaties concluded by individual PMs may not stand parliamentary approval at a later date. That way the SeS type errors made by strategically gullible PMs in the past can be alleviated. The body language of the PM and the Indian team here looks better IMO..

http://ishare.rediff.com/video/Others/D ... art/823755

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Oct 2009 23:05

for general knowledge, there was a large scale muslim revolt in three areas of china in mid 1850s - gansu, shaanxi and xinjiang. it was suppressed as per the usual methods - tens of thousands killed, resettled or forced to migrate out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungan_revolt

fans of the EJ might also want to read up on the Taiping revolt in southern china which is linked
from the above one , both occurred in parallel.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 24 Oct 2009 23:25

From the above monitor link..has UK ever said anything on Arunachal? I was not aware of that.

regarding the disputed territory; see also the apparent UK retreat from that position in 2008.

http://www.world-check.com/articles/200 ... ntry-risk/

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 25 Oct 2009 01:10

harbans wrote:From the above monitor link..has UK ever said anything on Arunachal? I was not aware of that.

regarding the disputed territory; see also the apparent UK retreat from that position in 2008.
http://www.world-check.com/articles/200 ... ntry-risk/

wait till the next time Milliband comes to India...

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 25 Oct 2009 02:55

Why is China scared

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 25 Oct 2009 04:04

VinodTK wrote:Why is China scared

“Look how much power China has, and they are so paranoid, they take such desperate measures to keep politicians away from the Dalai Lama,” says celebrated Tibetan poet Tenzing Tsundue. “The Dalai Lama has no aircraft, no money, he’s a refugee. China has weapons and banks, but they are terrified of this simple monk who wants to make peace with them. It shows their great insecurity. Our power lies in our faith in non-violence. The Tibet movement is still here after 50 years. We continue to inspire the people of the world who are looking for solutions to violence and conflict

Reminds me of the Mahatma who shook the empire with ahimsa.

Also on a lighter vein- from Deewar?? - I have "Ma" dialogue from Big B.

amdavadi · Post by **amdavadi** » 25 Oct 2009 06:05

China isnt afraid of current dalai lama, but who comes after him. It seems they are worried future dalai lama from tawang.