Indian Military Aviation

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 30 Oct 2009 11:56

came across this link..

Sources said the C-17 deal was discussed and "almost finalised" at a recent meeting of the Defence Acquisition Council, under the defence minister, and the deal could be signed in a few months.

is this just DDM or do we have any proof for this?

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 30 Oct 2009 12:19

Does India have the Tu -160? I believe there was some talk of India getting long range bombers from Russia.

arya · Post by **arya** » 30 Oct 2009 12:37

csharma wrote:Does India have the Tu -160? I believe there was some talk of India getting long range bombers from Russia.

old article but intresting

(From BBC Monitoring International Reports)

Text of report by Russian news agency Interfax-AVN web site on 2 December

New Delhi, 2 December: Russian Defence Minister Sergey Ivanov has reported that the question of delivering Tu-22 long-range bombers to New Delhi was examined at a session of the Russian-Indian intergovernmental commission for military-technical cooperation.

"The Tu-22 is mentioned in the protocol signed on the results of the session," he told journalists in New Delhi on Thursday [2 December].

"We agreed to find a mutually acceptable answer to delivering these aircraft to India, since it was part of a packet agreement," Ivanov said.

He also reported that agreement was reached at the intergovernmental commission on the joint creation of a fifth-generation aircraft and a new military transport plane.

The session of the Russian-Indian intergovernmental commission on military-technical cooperation took place in New Delhi on 1 and 2 December.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/su ... 752334_ITM

arya · Post by **arya** » 30 Oct 2009 14:01

New Delhi: After successfully completing the second phase of trials for Indian Air Force's 126 medium range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) tender , US firm Boeing Co said it was ready to transfer technology which would allow construction of its F/A-18IN Super Hornet fighter jets in India.
http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general ... oeing.html

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 30 Oct 2009 15:39

One killed as air force chopper crashes in Kashmir
http://www.samaylive.com/news/one-kille ... 65209.html

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 30 Oct 2009 15:40

'Air warriors are becoming businessman'
The Indian Air Force (IAF) has found that a large number of its men are moonlighting in their spare time and turning to trade and business. In fact, the IAF has sent out a strongly worded letter warning all its officers against such activities and warning them even of harshest steps like being sacked from service if its directive is not followed.

http://www.timesnow.tv/Air-warriors-are ... 330820.cms

mody · Post by **mody** » 30 Oct 2009 16:21

Does anybody have any news regarding the Light Combat Helicopter that been under development? I thought the first test flight was supposed to take place this year.

Also does anyone know the tentative weapons payload that the LCH will be able to carry. Thanks in advance.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 30 Oct 2009 16:22

It has been pushed to 2010 because of weight issues

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 30 Oct 2009 16:47

Eastern Bridge concludes successfully, IAF team returns to India
15:58 IST

Exercise Eastern Bridge – the first joint air exercise between Indian Air Force (IAF) and Royal Air Force of Oman (RAFO) concluded on Thursday, successfully. The exercise was held from Oct 22-29, at RAFO’s Thumrait airbase in Oman.

All six IAF Jaguars that participated in the exercise landed safely at Jamnagar on Thursday. In a rare first, six fighters refueled from a single IL-78 MKI mid-air refueller during their overseas flight. The IL-76 carrying the remaining team members arrived at Gorakhpur via Jamnagar close to midnight on Thursday. The Jaguars also returned to their parent airbase Gorakhpur, today.

Before conclusion of the exercise, Chief of Staff of the Sultan of Oman’s Armed Forces, Lieutenant General Ahmed Harith Nasser visited the IAF delegation and interacted with the IAF team. His visit as the Head of the Sultan’s armed forces outlines the great importance and honour Oman extended to the visiting Indian delegation. He expressed great satisfaction with the conduct of the exercise.

RAFO Thumrait Commander, Air Commodore Mattar Al Obaidani in his closing address at the exercise debrief, praised the professional conduct of the IAF contingent. “You have really set an example for our youngsters and have shown how disciplined and professional you are,” he said.

“One of the objectives was to win friends, a friendship that was lost in a long time,” he said, apprising that it was for the first time that RAFO had looked east for an exercise. So far the only exercises RAFO have been participating are with the GCC countries and west. He conveyed that RAFO was keenly looking forward to bringing aircraft their aircraft to India in near future.

IAF Team Leader Group Captain VV Dedgaonkar also thanked RAFO for all the facilitations on behalf of the Indian contingent. Referring to consolidation of IAF-RAFO ties, he said, “Bridges are not built by machines but by each one of us and will be only consolidated in the future.”

Exercise Eastern Bridge was a platform for the airmen on both sides to show their professional mettle and learn from each other. Unlike IAF, seldom do RAFO pilots get an opportunity to change aircraft type once they begin to fly operationally. The exercise provided them the chance to assimilate some experience from their IAF counterparts who have flown both western and Russian aircraft.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 31 Oct 2009 08:42

shiv wrote:
Baldev wrote: who else wants to believe this or i probably don't get meaning of this properly
You haven't got the meaning. Every plane comes with hundreds of small components of special dimensions and composition (like O-rings, washers and valves) that are usually readily available in the country of origin but would require the setting up of a whole new factory or manufacturing line in India. Such components are always imported despite "manufacture" of the aircraft "under licence" in India.

This will certainly be of interest

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 31 Oct 2009 08:50

Jagan wrote:This will certainly be of interest

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/391 ... -Chart.jpg

thanks a lot

vijyeta · Post by **vijyeta** » 31 Oct 2009 08:57

csharma wrote:Does India have the Tu -160? I believe there was some talk of India getting long range bombers from Russia.

The Blackjack is a strategic asset for the Russkies. I doubt if it will ever be exported.

On the other hand, even if we get it - what are we going to do with it?
Where is the strategic ambition/political will to match the capability of a strat bomber.

The Tu-22M - maybe, but there was some talk earlier that the IAF is not interested in the bird.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Oct 2009 09:04

IAF pilot killed in chopper crash

JAMMU: The pilot of an IAF chopper was killed and three other personnel on board were feared dead on Friday when the MI-17 helicopter crashed into the Chenab river in Doda district, 145 km from here.

The transport helicopter, which was on an exercise-cum-sortie in the Chanderkote-Nawapanchi mountainous belt, was flying low over the river when it got caught in the cable-wire of a bridge.

It crashed into the water reservoir of the Baglihar hydro-electric power project at 1.15 p.m., defence sources said. — PTI

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 31 Oct 2009 10:06

vijyeta wrote:
csharma wrote:Does India have the Tu -160? I believe there was some talk of India getting long range bombers from Russia.
The Blackjack is a strategic asset for the Russkies. I doubt if it will ever be exported.

On the other hand, even if we get it - what are we going to do with it?
Where is the strategic ambition/political will to match the capability of a strat bomber.

The Tu-22M - maybe, but there was some talk earlier that the IAF is not interested in the bird.

The following link shows why India should have the Tu 160.

http://www.indiadefence.com/Tu-160.htm

The Indian Navy has been offered Tupolev-22M3/MR strategic strike platforms to replace their ageing Tu-142 and Il-38 MRW aircraft. A detailed analysis shows that the Russian Tupolev-160 “Blackjack” offers several advantages over the offered aircraft, and may be available as the Navy’s requirement is small and Tu-160 production has restarted and additional funds will be welcome. The Russians on their part have never been hesitant to transfer strategic platforms to India.

Some more googling shows the following:

http://frontierindia.net/indian-agni-mi ... ese-border

Mr. Karnad also revealed that India is negotiating for purchase of TU-160 Black Jacks from Russia. He could be right; Russian Air Force did display Tu-160s with their capability to get their job done over Indian Ocean during Indo-Russian Naval Exercises (INDRA).

The reason why I started looking at Tu 160 for India is when I saw Vikram Sood mention the following in the context of recent India China tensions. Not sure if he means long range strike fighters or bombers.

http://soodvikram.blogspot.com/

The armed forces — all three wings — need upgrading, with long-range strike aircrafts as well.

vijyeta · Post by **vijyeta** » 31 Oct 2009 10:19

The P-8I will replace the Tu-142, so that chapter seems closed.
In any case, the Blackjack was not designed as an MR platform - I cannot imagine it trying to ping a sub. (Buzz a carrier, yes - but even su24s and Bears can do that it seems

).

It can be an advantage against the northern adventurer, but as I said earlier - I don't think the establishment will bite this apple (might up the ante, upset the dragon etc).

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 31 Oct 2009 13:03

vijyeta wrote:The P-8I will replace the Tu-142, so that chapter seems closed.
In any case, the Blackjack was not designed as an MR platform - I cannot imagine it trying to ping a sub. (Buzz a carrier, yes - but even su24s and Bears can do that it seems ).

It can be an advantage against the northern adventurer, but as I said earlier - I don't think the establishment will bite this apple (might up the ante, upset the dragon etc).

Yessssss !!! that's the main thing we should not do anything to upset the dragon. The dragon can give nukes to tsp, can issue separate visas to Kashmiris and what not. But should not even buy a much needed heavy bomber. Nothing, I repeat nothing is an overkill regarding indian situation. We have two bloodthirsty armed to teeth enemies working every moment for our destruction. 20 TU-160, armed with ALCMs can do wonder to enhance our security.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 31 Oct 2009 19:57

Upsetting China and fear of the US Congress ...........................

arya · Post by **arya** » 31 Oct 2009 20:46

Manish_Sharma wrote:
vijyeta wrote:The P-8I will replace the Tu-142, so that chapter seems closed.
In any case, the Blackjack was not designed as an MR platform - I cannot imagine it trying to ping a sub. (Buzz a carrier, yes - but even su24s and Bears can do that it seems ).

It can be an advantage against the northern adventurer, but as I said earlier - I don't think the establishment will bite this apple (might up the ante, upset the dragon etc).
Yessssss !!! that's the main thing we should not do anything to upset the dragon. The dragon can give nukes to tsp, can issue separate visas to Kashmiris and what not. But should not even buy a much needed heavy bomber. Nothing, I repeat nothing is an overkill regarding indian situation. We have two bloodthirsty armed to teeth enemies working every moment for our destruction. 20 TU-160, armed with ALCMs can do wonder to enhance our security.

i totally agree with u sir

arya · Post by **arya** » 31 Oct 2009 20:51

MOSCOW, October 29 (RIA Novosti) - Ecuador could return six helicopters recently bought from an Indian company after one of the aircraft crashed at an air show last week, the Unverso newspaper reported on Thursday.
One of the seven Dhruv combat helicopters Ecuador had purchased from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited crashed during an air show in the Ecuadoran capital, Quito, last Saturday, injuring the pilot and co-pilot.
http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=11810

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 31 Oct 2009 22:19

President to become First Indian Woman to Fly in Sukhoi-30 MKI

vishnu.nv · Post by **vishnu.nv** » 01 Nov 2009 01:00

President patil in a G-Suite .....

swapna · Post by **swapna** » 01 Nov 2009 02:52

edit.

George J · Post by **George J** » 01 Nov 2009 02:56

Enough!

She is the supreme commander of the armed forces and if she has no issues riding in an MKI I don't see why jingo's have to get too colorful. She is well aware she cannot possible ride in an MKI in a sari...whatever is required to fly in an MKI will be done.

On the contrary is a VERY good thing....the ramifications of which cannot be understood if you are fixated by flight/swim suits.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Nov 2009 03:03

Bad taste alert guys. Please edit your posts. That's the President you're talking about.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 01 Nov 2009 03:07

Its a good thing

the more politicians understand the better

plus in this case a lot of girls might get inspired

Asit P · Post by **Asit P** » 01 Nov 2009 04:23

Let us not forget that she is 74. That's the age when many people can barely walk. Despite that she has expressed her desire to fly in this bird. Therefore in my humble opinion, instead of ridiculing her, we must appreciative her desire and keen interest.

Moreover, just because she has become synonymous with the traditional attire of Saree, let is not assume that it would be funny for her to wear the G suit. As they say in Hindi - 'jaisa desh waisa vesh'

Personally I am proud of the fact that the supreme commander of the armed forces has decided to come out of the comforts of the Rastrapati bhavan, and has decided to fly in the most lethal aircraft which our country currently operates.

George J · Post by **George J** » 01 Nov 2009 05:21

Jagan wrote:Ok for now I will stick to "While there is a rumoured capability(link to ACIG) to carry the RVV-AEE (R-77), There has not been a public confirmation of the same " . (Till we find a picture or that article)..............

Mu hu hu ha ha ha....REVENGE IS MINE!!!!!

Well not fully...but at least I have definite confirmation that you too are getting old and senile. We have been doing for too long.

One Jagan...exactly six years ago...while appreciating the work done by the same Harry he is now dissing wrote:Hi Harry,

Good work as usual (not that you need to hear it from me AGAIN..but to put it on record)

Its not KB309 but either KB3108 or KB3109

Jagan

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ?f=4&t=164

Based on what Harry said during the Chennai airshow we accepted that Mig-29 has RVV-AE. Now the only thing left is that damn pic. I just realized that we lost almost 99% of the Mumbai Airshow pics...there is a Mumbai Air show thread with lots of links to pic that don't work.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 01 Nov 2009 08:08

George J wrote:http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ?f=4&t=164

Based on what Harry said during the Chennai airshow we accepted that Mig-29 has RVV-AE. Now the only thing left is that damn pic. I just realized that we lost almost 99% of the Mumbai Airshow pics...there is a Mumbai Air show thread with lots of links to pic that don't work.

GJ , I have all the Mumbai air show pics on my HD, none show a MiG-29 with a R-77 nor one is displayed in front of a 29

Again, I know what Harry said - He asked one of the dudes in the chennai show and he said that the MiG-29s have been R-77 capable, but we need more for that info to be verifable. Been six years, we have more pics (without R77s) , more info (procurement, upgrades etc). Unfortunately Harry seems to be AWOL, else there are half a dozen questions I want to throw on his way.

There is still the third question that we are awaiting answers to - What exactly did HAL upgrade in a Mig-29, when? and where?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Nov 2009 08:41

Do we have any information on DARIN 3 system that HAL is proposing as part of comprehensive Jaguar and Mig-27 upgrade ?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Nov 2009 10:54

George, Jagan

I am 100% sure we have not seen a picture with R-77. However, at same time I do not support that the capaibility with MiG-29 be reported as a rumour.

I dont think any of us has ever seen even a live R-73 aboard a MiG-29. All we have is training rounds which could easily be R-60. Can we doubt its integration with MiG-29.

These days we are able to find pics of MiG-21 with KAB, R-77 and Su-30 with Litening it doesnt mean that image proof is 100% required for MiG-29+R-77. We have statements on current BR site as well as ACIG which I accept as truth.

Till recently we had not seen Sea Eagle euipped Tu-142 and even one pic I found with IL-38 was removed from BRF many years ago. Times have changed but IAF still has many secrets.

R-27 and R-73 was mated with Mirage-2000; these are the exotic systems for which we need the proof!

George J wrote:
Jagan wrote:Ok for now I will stick to "While there is a rumoured capability(link to ACIG) to carry the RVV-AEE (R-77), There has not been a public confirmation of the same " . (Till we find a picture or that article)..............
Mu hu hu ha ha ha....REVENGE IS MINE!!!!!

Well not fully...but at least I have definite confirmation that you too are getting old and senile. We have been doing for too long.

One Jagan...exactly six years ago...while appreciating the work done by the same Harry he is now dissing wrote:Hi Harry,

Good work as usual (not that you need to hear it from me AGAIN..but to put it on record)

Its not KB309 but either KB3108 or KB3109

Jagan
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ?f=4&t=164

Based on what Harry said during the Chennai airshow we accepted that Mig-29 has RVV-AE. Now the only thing left is that damn pic. I just realized that we lost almost 99% of the Mumbai Airshow pics...there is a Mumbai Air show thread with lots of links to pic that don't work.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 01 Nov 2009 11:01

I dont think any of us has ever seen even a live R-73 aboard a MiG-29. All we have is training rounds which could easily be R-60. Can we doubt its integration with MiG-29.

Welllll. there is no doubt (NOW) that the R-73 has been integrated with the MiG-29 becaaaaaussseeeee..... Phil Camp quotes an IAF MiG-29 pilot (in AFM last year) who flew during Kargil something on the lines of "We just started integrating the R-73 when the operations broke out. We did our live trials with that missile during the operations and dominated the enemy , infused confidence etc etc". The exact quote misses me - but didnt someone post a scan of it over here? So R-73 is covered.

But I get your point. a year ago I may be saying the same (about R73) - No pics - No confirmation. year later I would be eating my words. but you understand what a concrete source like the one can do to the authenticity of information on our website. I am looking for one such.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 01 Nov 2009 11:56

Till recently we had not seen Sea Eagle euipped Tu-142 and even one pic I found with IL-38 was removed from BRF many years ago.

Just so that it doesnt get lost again - its now permanently in the IN Gallery

The first time it appeared was Harrys article on the Naval Aviation on ACIG http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_431.shtml the image is still there

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Nov 2009 12:22

Jagan - where exactly is that Sea Eagle attached? Have you had a look at the picture enlarged? Everything under the wing and fuselage is dark, except the Sea Eagle.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Nov 2009 13:36

Jagan, hmmm looks like you have a specific reason behind your doubt

shiv wrote:Jagan - where exactly is that Sea Eagle attached? Have you had a look at the picture enlarged? Everything under the wing and fuselage is dark, except the Sea Eagle.

Its attached aft of the wings:

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 01 Nov 2009 14:38

Austin wrote:Do we have any information on DARIN 3 system that HAL is proposing as part of comprehensive Jaguar and Mig-27 upgrade ?

Darin # is just a proposal from HAL or some other agency, to IAF, to upgrade the Jaguars. This proposal has NOT been requested by IAF, at least not officially. Basically it involves changing the old electronice with new (read Israeli) systems. A mock up was presented at AE 2009 at HAL stall.

By the way Darin 3 is independent of the engine upgrade on Jaguar. Here too i believe that it is just a proposal to IAF. Even this proposal has NOT been requested by IAF, at least not officially.

K

Errors expected !!

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 01 Nov 2009 17:55

Chinese parts in IAF encryption devices prompt security probe
Maneesh Chhibber
Posted: Sunday , Nov 01, 2009 at 0410 hrs

New Delhi:The National Security Council Secretariat (NSCS) has ordered a high-level inquiry into the supply of encryption devices last year to the Indian Air Force and the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) by state-owned, Bangalore-based Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL).

The inquiry was ordered after it came to light that the encryption devices were of Chinese origin, thereby leading to concerns that Chinese agencies could penetrate the systems to access data stored in the devices.

The IAF, it is learnt, as well as the NTRO, were using the devices to encrypt inter-office and intra-office communication, most of it related to national security.

The decision was taken at a meeting held on October 28 here, which was chaired by Deputy National Security Adviser Leela Ponappa, who retires today.

The Scientific Analysis Group (SAG) of the NSCS has been ordered to conduct a detailed inquiry into whether any device has been breached, as well as the possibility of such an eventuality in the future.

Representatives of some other public sector enterprises that supply communication as well as encryption devices to the defence establishment, such as the Electronics Corporation of India Limited (ECIL) and the Indian Telephone Industries (ITI), as well as the three services and the Defence Ministry, are to conduct internal inquiries to rule out any possibility of technical Chinese-manufactured equipment being accessed by the Chinese manufacturers or the Chinese agencies.

Sources in the NSCS told The Sunday Express that the inquiry was ordered by a miffed Deputy NSA despite strong protests by the IAF, the Defence Ministry as well BEL.

The SAG has been asked to conclude its inquiry within two months and submit its report to the NSCS.

Sources in the NSCS said the government is wary of “too much” high tech hardware and software manufactured by Chinese companies, most of them state-owned, being used by the Indian defence establishment and intelligence agencies.

Incidentally, in April this year, the Intelligence Bureau (IB) and the Defence Ministry had asked public sector telecom major BSNL not to award equipment contracts to Chinese equipment majors Huawei and ZTE in the interest of national security.

Huawei, incidentally, is linked to the Chinese Army and was black-listed by the US Government a few years ago.

Following the BSNL decision, the government had also constituted a high-level committee to examine the issue of participation of foreign companies, especially these from China, in tenders by telecom companies such as the BSNL where security concerns prevailed.

A senior NSCS officer confirmed that the government has come across instances of Chinese companies indulging in industrial espionage and accessing top secret data, including those of Indian companies, by hacking into the servers.

jai · Post by **jai** » 01 Nov 2009 19:39

"Yessssss !!! that's the main thing we should not do anything to upset the dragon. The dragon can give nukes to tsp, can issue separate visas to Kashmiris and what not. But should not even buy a much needed heavy bomber. Nothing, I repeat nothing is an overkill regarding indian situation. We have two bloodthirsty armed to teeth enemies working every moment for our destruction. 20 TU-160, armed with ALCMs can do wonder to enhance our security."

I think there is definite merit in considering the TU 160 as a cruise missile launch platform and as a heavy bomber both against surface as well as enemy naval forces. It should offer India a strong strike capability to dramatically change battle landscapes very quickly, and in taking the battle to the enemy teritory. Imagine the effect it can cause towards defence/offence against china. If it upsets the chinese, we should induct it, as the chinese fears confirm the lethality and damage causing ability of this platform. As it is, the chinese do nothing in terms of not inducting lethal platforms against India, and in arming the porkis, so we would be fooling ourselves by not doing the same. The only way to get respect from the chinese is by becoming stronger militarily..
I am sure for the right price, the russians would be happy to customize the plane to Indian specs to make it deadlier than what it is...Indian money can finance improvements that the Russians can also enjoy in their planes...this can be a win - win for both India and Russia. Long range strategic bombers will continue to occupy important places in US, Russian and Chinese forces even post cold war, no reason for India to not create the same capability.
Mods please pardon if OT..

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 01 Nov 2009 20:32

Aditya G wrote:Jagan, hmmm looks like you have a specific reason behind your doubt

Nah nothing sinster. I am putting the BR Main Site under the scanner - started with the migration of the specs. Expect more in coming days as I go through each type page in the Specs section. two done another twenty to go.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 01 Nov 2009 20:40

Jagan,

May I request you to revisit the MKI page as well? The specs for the range on internal fuel seems incorrect - 3000km on 5200kg of fuel (Normal load) seems too high. OEM pages put the range @ 3000km with full internal fuel for the MKI. Makes sense, the MiG-35/29K with more than 5200kg of fuel has a range of only about 2000 odd km, and it is much lighter than the Rambha.

CM.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 01 Nov 2009 21:16

Cain Marko wrote:Jagan,

May I request you to revisit the MKI page as well? The specs for the range on internal fuel seems incorrect - 3000km on 5200kg of fuel (Normal load) seems too high. OEM pages put the range @ 3000km with full internal fuel for the MKI. Makes sense, the MiG-35/29K with more than 5200kg of fuel has a range of only about 2000 odd km, and it is much lighter than the Rambha.

CM.

yes ofcourse, in due course. will definitely get there at some point.