Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 23 Oct 2009 21:17

3M9ME Gainful and its Agat 1SB4ME monopulse CW SARH seeker

http://www.ausairpower.net/3M9ME-Gainfu ... osi-2S.jpg
http://www.ausairpower.net/3M9ME-Gainfu ... osi-1S.jpg

The nose of the missile houses the Agat designed 1SB4M CW semi-active homing coherent dual plane monopulse seeker, which employs a parabolic section reflector antenna which produces monopulse sum and pitch/yaw difference signals. The seeker also uses the difference in Doppler between the illuminator carrier frequency and backscatter from the target to estimate the closure rate between the missile and target. An adaptive tunable narrowband filter is claimed to be used to reject clutter. The seeker is analogue and in addition to producing pitch/yaw commands for the autopilot, it activates the proximity fuse.

Trial shots performed by the UK on a test range, using a 2K12 Kub / SA-6 system captured in Africa, were reported to have resulted in remarkably high accuracy against drone targets

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 23 Oct 2009 21:21

negi wrote:Afaik the Semi Active seeker for 2K12 "Kub" (SA-6 gainful) was developed by NIIP Tikhomirov .

please provide link
thanks

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 24 Oct 2009 08:51

brahmos missile seeker

http://www.missiles.ru/_foto/MAKS-2005_ ... W_0116.jpg
Monopulse homing head for Yakhont anti-ship.
http://www.ausairpower.net/Granit-SGH-Y ... ker-1S.jpg

Homing
-operating range, km 80
- angle capture target, deg +/-45
-readiness time, min 2
- mass, kg 89

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl ... hont.shtml

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 24 Oct 2009 12:44

Agni-II user trial anytime between 3-8 November
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/mil_avi/mi ... trial.html

• The Agni-II, a nuclear capable missile, can hit targets beyond 2,000 km and up to a distance of 3,500 km with varying payloads.

• ''The missile is scheduled to be fired from the Wheelers Island based test range facilities any time between November 3 and 8

• Weighing 16 tonnes it is designed to carry a nuclear payload of about 1,000 kg to a distance in excess of 2500 km.

• Agni-II is a ready-to-fire missile with a launch time of about 15 minutes.

• The missile is unique in that its second stage has a flex nozzle which enables small changes in the thrust vector direction in flight allowing far superior manoeuvrability and thrust control than any comparable missiles in its class, including western ones.

• The flex nozzle can be exploited with the help of an on-board closed-loop guidance and control system.

• The missile's re-entry vehicle uses its manoeuvring fins to porpoise the warhead, to avoid missile defences while manoeuvring to its target, employing terminal guidance radar operating in the C- and S-bands.

• While earlier test versions of the missile had a CEP of ±100 metres, the latest versions will have a CEP of around 30 metres.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Oct 2009 13:03

Wonder if this is the new Agni-2AT ( 1.2 m dia ) extended range IRBM that Arun spoke about , this is being developed under the leadership of Dr Tesse Thomas.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Oct 2009 04:27

there was some news about integrating electro-optical-infrared terminal homing guidance for astra/tail chase. was that true? could be a dual waveband plus electro-optical that can scare the crap outta anything but raptoriskies.

Baldev · Post by **Baldev** » 25 Oct 2009 06:19

more pix of onyx missile seeker
http://www.missiles.ru/_foto/IMDS-2005/CRW_7054_01.jpg
http://www.missiles.ru/_foto/IMDS-2005/CRW_7067_01.jpg

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 25 Oct 2009 17:06

Air-launched BrahMos to be test-fired in Dec 2010

New Delhi, Oct 25 (PTI) India and Russia are planning to test-fire the air-launched version of their jointly-developed BrahMos supersonic cruise missile from a Sukhoi-30 fighter aircraft in December next year.

Work on the air-launched version of the missile is in the final stages and BrahMos scientists are now waiting for the Su-30MKI aircraft from India to act as a platform for test launch of the missile, Defence Ministry sources told PTI here.

The air-launched version, they said, will be lighter and smaller than the land-based version of the missile so that it can be fitted to the aircraft.

One of the two speed boosters in the missile has been removed for the air version of the weapon system as after being launched from an aircraft moving at a speed of more than 1.5 mach, the missile will automatically gain its momentum and maintain its speed of 2.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 25 Oct 2009 18:43

Avinash R wrote:One of the two speed boosters in the missile has been removed for the air version of the weapon system as after being launched from an aircraft moving at a speed of more than 1.5 mach, the missile will automatically gain its momentum and maintain its speed of 2.

Do they except the MKI to fire the missile ONLY when it has attained speed in or in excess of Mach 1.5. Say that the MKI is subsonic and wanted to fire Brahmos what will it do then?? This news seems very unclear at least on how they plan on testing the missile, because clearly from their writing it reflects the missile will only maintain it speed of Mach 2 if air launched at a speed of Mach 1.5 or beyond....Very disappointing if it cannot indeed fire at standoff ranges reaching mach2. Besides I thought that Brahmos had achieved close to Mach 3 [Mach 2.8] wonder why limit it to Mach 2 when many air crafts have a top speed of just over Mach 2 (even though it's hell for a human body to handle the stress reaching Mach 2)

srai · Post by **srai** » 26 Oct 2009 11:30

Craig Alpert wrote:
Avinash R wrote:One of the two speed boosters in the missile has been removed for the air version of the weapon system as after being launched from an aircraft moving at a speed of more than 1.5 mach, the missile will automatically gain its momentum and maintain its speed of 2.
Do they except the MKI to fire the missile ONLY when it has attained speed in or in excess of Mach 1.5. Say that the MKI is subsonic and wanted to fire Brahmos what will it do then?? This news seems very unclear at least on how they plan on testing the missile, because clearly from their writing it reflects the missile will only maintain it speed of Mach 2 if air launched at a speed of Mach 1.5 or beyond....Very disappointing if it cannot indeed fire at standoff ranges reaching mach2. Besides I thought that Brahmos had achieved close to Mach 3 [Mach 2.8] wonder why limit it to Mach 2 when many air crafts have a top speed of just over Mach 2 (even though it's hell for a human body to handle the stress reaching Mach 2)

Well ... ramjet engines run only in the supersonic range M1.5 to M5. The boosters in Brahmos SSM and Akash SAM take the missiles to M1.5+ before their ramjet engines kick off. Since the air-launched Brahmos has removed the booster, this means the MKI will have to act as a booster going supersonic to launch the missile with enough Mach velocity to allow for the ramjet engines to function.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 26 Oct 2009 16:40

Since the air-launched Brahmos has removed the booster, this means the MKI will have to act as a booster going supersonic to launch the missile with enough Mach velocity to allow for the ramjet engines to function.

I don't think the booster has been removed, it may be a smaller booster instead.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Oct 2009 19:00

merlin wrote:
Since the air-launched Brahmos has removed the booster, this means the MKI will have to act as a booster going supersonic to launch the missile with enough Mach velocity to allow for the ramjet engines to function.
I don't think the booster has been removed, it may be a smaller booster instead.

A recent news item said that the missile has been made lighter by removing the booster which is not required since it will be launched from a Su 30 in the air.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 Oct 2009 19:08

shiv wrote:A recent news item said that the missile has been made lighter by removing the booster which is not required since it will be launched from a Su 30 in the air.

I think they will still need a small booster ( not a large one ) to impart the necessary acceleration before Ramjet propulsion takes over.

Not to mention the carrying aircraft needs to have certain threshold speed before launching brahmos.

Anabhaya · Post by **Anabhaya** » 26 Oct 2009 19:24

AFAIK They're onlee taking off one of the two boosters.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 31 Oct 2009 03:11

India’s Missile Programme: Augmenting Firepower

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 31 Oct 2009 05:32

The article does say that one of the two boosters is being removed. There will still be a booster to boost the missile from a subsonic launch speed to a supersonic one.

AFAIK aircraft don't exactly launch missiles at supersonic speeds. It is possible, but not usually done.

The Brahmos will certainly be launched at subsonic speeds, the booster will take it to supersonic speeds, there is a rocket motor in the aerodynamic covering over its front air intakes, which will fire to remove the air intake cover, and then the ramjet engine ignites. This is the usual sequence that'll occur.

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 31 Oct 2009 13:19

Hi....Does anybody know what exactly went wrong with trishul ?

Google throws confusing results. Some say that all flight tests were successful, some say that A.K Antony replied to a query in a lok Sabha that work on trishul has been completed & IAF has shown interest in it, some say trishul was a technology demonstrator. Is it really a TD because AFAIK DRDO is not involved in any new QRSAM project to incorporate the technologies of trishul. I think of one where they are collaborating with Israel.

Some help in this case will be appreciated.

Thanks

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 01 Nov 2009 09:37

Captive flight trials of Astra missile carried out

India’s missile programme took a crucial step forward on Saturday with Indian Air Force test pilots carrying out the captive flight trials of the indigenously designed and developed Astra beyond visual range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM).

A Su-30MKI combat aircraft especially tasked for the trials took off from Air Force Station Lohegaon (Pune) for a 90-minute sortie with the Astra missile. Till Thursday, four sorties, including flying the missile to super sonic speeds and to 7Gs, had been accomplished. Captive trials are mandatory to actual firing of the missile from the aircraft.

The active, radar homing Astra -- India’s first air-to-air missile -- which, at its design altitude of 15 km, will enable fighter pilots to lock-on, evade radar and shoot down enemy aircraft about 80 km away, is part of India’s Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme and has been under development at a number of defence laboratories led by the Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory.

Astra can be compared to the U.S.’ AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, or AMRAAM, France’s MICA (Missile d’interception et de combat aérien, “Interception and Aerial Combat Missile”) and Russia’s R77 (RVV-AE) missile.

The ground launch of Astra was successfully conducted at Chandipur-on-Sea, off the Orissa coast in September 2008.

Captive flight trials involve the Su-30MKI carrying under its wings at one of its six hard points (stations designated for the carrying of stores) an inert missile (with no explosives but simulating the real missile) which has not been electrically or electronically ‘connected’ to the aircraft’s on-board systems.

Captive or aero mechanical integrity tests allows a verification of aspects such as the mechanical, structural and electrical compatibility between the missile and the aircraft, and whether vibrations, strain, stress, etc. are within design levels.

Only after the missile is proven in captive flight trials can it be fired from an aircraft.

Disclosing news of Phase 1 of the captive flight trails which have come after about four years of planning and certification, senior officials said the trials would cover the entire flight envelope of the Su-30MKI, including attaining the fighter’s altitude ceiling of 18 km and a speed of 1.8 Mach, and undertaking the various complicated manoeuvres that the aircraft is designed for. The trials are likely to involve around 15 sorties.

Russian launcher

Though the missile has been indigenously developed, Astra currently depends on a Russian launcher and seeker head. The seeker is yet to be integrated with the missile’s radar, algorithms, etc.

Officials said Astra has been designed to pull a latax (lateral acceleration) of 40g. (40 times the acceleration due to gravity).

The second phase of the trials -- avionics integrity tests -- are expected early next year and will involve the integration of the missile’s avionics with that of the aircraft, and a dialoguing between the cockpit and the missile. Officials also disclosed that “some guided flights with a seeker to check for guidance will take place early next year.” The actual firing of Astra from the Su-30MKI is expected in July-August 2010.

Astra is to be initially fitted on the Su-30MKI and the Mirage 2000, with the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft and the MiG-29 scheduled to be equipped with it later.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Nov 2009 10:30

The seeker is yet to be integrated with the missile’s radar, algorithms, etc.

for astra, the seeker is the radar. I guess they meant the agat radar unit is not yet interfaced to the main control module & midcourse datalink update part.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Nov 2009 10:36

The seeker is yet to be integrated with the missile’s radar, algorithms, etc.

that would be the aircraft's radar. things are moving apace, good to see.

nash · Post by **nash** » 01 Nov 2009 11:21

forgive me if it was discussed earlier..

but what is the diff b/w head-on chase and tail chase ..

i search this on wiki and goin by defination,it is like:

Tail-chase engagement:A tail-chase engagement (or rear-aspect engagement) is one where a surface-to-air missile system or jet aircraft engages another aircraft while the target aircraft is flying away from the attacker.This makes engagement with infra-red homing missiles easier because of the minimal lateral target movement relative to the attacker and the fact that the hot engine exhaust nozzle(s) are pointing directly at the attacker, making the infra-red seeker's task of tracking the target much easier.

Head-on engagement:A Head-on engagement is one where a surface-to-air missile system or jet aircraft engages another aircraft while the target aircraft is flying towards the attacker....and thats where active radar and inertial guidance came into play.

so my question is..

does astra using active radar for tail chase also or there is dual seeker in astra..

Also please enlighten me about the passivemode of astra ,if there is any..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Nov 2009 14:07

the wiki definition is confusing.
tail-chase has nothing to do with IR or RF seeker per se. it is simply the name for an engagement in which the target is doing a paki general and fleeing away from you.
whether you use IR or ARH depends on the missile you are using.

does astra using active radar for tail chase also or there is dual seeker in astra..

in the posts just above yours there are information on astra. failing that there's google.
does it mention dual seeker anywhere ?
to my knowledge there are no dual seeker A2A missiles in service anywhere at the moment.

Also please enlighten me about the passivemode of astra ,if there is any..

how would the ARH missile be guided with a passive mode ? unless you mean home-on jamming.
if it's the later there's no public information on this.

nash · Post by **nash** » 01 Nov 2009 14:35

Thanks for replying Rahul..

Yeah i mean home-on jamming...

they are comparing astra with aim-120 and r-77, so i thought astra may have these measure also..

may be they are comparing in terms of range and seeker..

anyway hopefully they also add home-on jamming to astra,it will truly convert him into world class..

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 01 Nov 2009 17:57

sunny y wrote:Why India is not a great nation. Must Read....

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?a=jk ... eat_nation

America is a great nations because there are great Americans

Germany is a great nations because there are great Germans

Japan is a great nations because there are great Japanese

China is a great nations because there are great Chinese

Korea is a great nations because there are great Koreans

India is a not great nations because.... . err there are no great Indians ?

Right ?

Wrong !!

India is a not great nations because there are no Indians in India,
We have Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Tamils, Malayalees, Bengalies, Marwadis, Kashmiris .....

Any more ??

The day we forget our religions, castes, states wwe will be the world leaders

K

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 01 Nov 2009 18:08

Kakarat wrote:Captive flight trials of Astra missile carried out

India’s missile programme took a crucial step forward on Saturday with Indian Air Force test pilots carrying out the captive flight trials of the indigenously designed and developed Astra beyond visual range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM).

A Su-30MKI combat aircraft especially tasked for the trials took off from Air Force Station Lohegaon (Pune) for a 90-minute sortie with the Astra missile. Till Thursday, four sorties, including flying the missile to super sonic speeds and to 7Gs, had been accomplished. Captive trials are mandatory to actual firing of the missile from the aircraft.

The active, radar homing Astra -- India’s first air-to-air missile -- which, at its design altitude of 15 km, will enable fighter pilots to lock-on, evade radar and shoot down enemy aircraft about 80 km away, is part of India’s Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme and has been under development at a number of defence laboratories led by the Hyderabad-based Defence Research and Development Laboratory.

Astra can be compared to the U.S.’ AIM-120 Advanced Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile, or AMRAAM, France’s MICA (Missile d’interception et de combat aérien, “Interception and Aerial Combat Missile”) and Russia’s R77 (RVV-AE) missile.

The ground launch of Astra was successfully conducted at Chandipur-on-Sea, off the Orissa coast in September 2008.

Captive flight trials involve the Su-30MKI carrying under its wings at one of its six hard points (stations designated for the carrying of stores) an inert missile (with no explosives but simulating the real missile) which has not been electrically or electronically ‘connected’ to the aircraft’s on-board systems.

Captive or aero mechanical integrity tests allows a verification of aspects such as the mechanical, structural and electrical compatibility between the missile and the aircraft, and whether vibrations, strain, stress, etc. are within design levels.

Only after the missile is proven in captive flight trials can it be fired from an aircraft.

Disclosing news of Phase 1 of the captive flight trails which have come after about four years of planning and certification, senior officials said the trials would cover the entire flight envelope of the Su-30MKI, including attaining the fighter’s altitude ceiling of 18 km and a speed of 1.8 Mach, and undertaking the various complicated manoeuvres that the aircraft is designed for. The trials are likely to involve around 15 sorties.

Russian launcher

Though the missile has been indigenously developed, Astra currently depends on a Russian launcher and seeker head. The seeker is yet to be integrated with the missile’s radar, algorithms, etc.

Officials said Astra has been designed to pull a latax (lateral acceleration) of 40g. (40 times the acceleration due to gravity).

The second phase of the trials -- avionics integrity tests -- are expected early next year and will involve the integration of the missile’s avionics with that of the aircraft, and a dialoguing between the cockpit and the missile. Officials also disclosed that “some guided flights with a seeker to check for guidance will take place early next year.” The actual firing of Astra from the Su-30MKI is expected in July-August 2010.

Astra is to be initially fitted on the Su-30MKI and the Mirage 2000, with the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft and the MiG-29 scheduled to be equipped with it later.

So as soon as Astra proves to be a good AAM, UK, USA, Europe, French, Russia will be ready to supply their latest AAM. Till then they say they cannot supply their state-of-fart equipment to anybody other then NATO, WP, SEATO XYZTO; they do not want to increase the tension in this region; it wil upset the balance of power etc.

Any remember Iskander ? Russia refused to give it to IA. But as soon as Prithivi was reaching actual service, Russia was ready to sell Iskander.

K

PS I have done a thorough spell check, I have not made any SPELLING mistakes

apable AAM,

John · Post by **John** » 01 Nov 2009 20:37

It is not that they are offering their latest BVRAAM it is the cost they are offered at. For example just 2 dozen Derbys' cost us 25 million. Plus the host of compatibility issues trying to integrate Russian missile with western avionics which would require cooperation from both sides.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Nov 2009 20:42

When is the Agni test due? Any testing of the Shourya / Sagarika? Nirbhay?

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 01 Nov 2009 20:55

Gagan wrote:When is the Agni test due?

http://www.domain-b.com/aero/mil_avi/mi ... trial.html

It says between 3-8 November.

SanjibGhosh · Post by **SanjibGhosh** » 01 Nov 2009 21:19

IISc working towards recoverable hypersonic missiles

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... ms?curpg=1

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 01 Nov 2009 21:25

SanjibGhosh wrote:IISc working towards recoverable hypersonic missiles

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... ms?curpg=1

why the face??

on a side note can one of the forum moderators tell me how can I attach/upload a Word Document. I have compared Astra and Aim 120 as a side by side comparison, however BR won't let me upload word documents or even PDF for that matter. If one of the forum moderators want to do it themselves, I can email the document over to them as well. Please advise!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Nov 2009 23:02

craig, you can upload to someplace like http://ifile.it/ and give us a link here.

alternatively, you can upload to scribd. there's a way an uploaded scribd document can be posted inline in the forum pages much like images are but you will have to discover it for yourself, since I don't remember how it's done.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Nov 2009 23:03

SanjibGhosh wrote:IISc working towards recoverable hypersonic missiles
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... ms?curpg=1

Well I have grown 10 years older since the time when I first heard this reusable hypersonic missile news first proposed by Kalam.

This is a nice day dream and kooch-moochy news , the kind of talk you want to do with your GF to see her smile and get the reward, let DRDO first develop a subsonic 1000 km range subsonic cruise missile and let the armed force induct it , we then talk about a "reusable hypersonic" missile.

yossarian · Post by **yossarian** » 01 Nov 2009 23:05

Well this is not DRDO, its IISc which seems to be doing the talking. That could be lent some credibility....

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 01 Nov 2009 23:35

Yes of course. BTW I am 'working towards' a Nobel myself.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 02 Nov 2009 00:58

ASTRA & AIM120
Thanks Rahul for the ifileit link!

John · Post by **John** » 02 Nov 2009 03:38

Craig Alpert wrote:ASTRA & AIM120
Thanks Rahul for the ifileit link!

That info is from Wiki

btw you forgot to put 00s on your price. It is 300k, 400k and 700k for AIM-120 variants not 3k-7k.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Nov 2009 03:53

The links won't work. This is a jpeg image only

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 02 Nov 2009 05:11

John wrote:
Craig Alpert wrote:ASTRA & AIM120
Thanks Rahul for the ifileit link!
That info is from Wiki btw you forgot to put 00s on your price. It is 300k, 400k and 700k for AIM-120 variants not 3k-7k.

Yes Sir - Unfortunately I'm not that lucky to get more official data, as I'm not working any of these beautiful projects.. But I figured since the article originally mentioned that it is comparable to Aim 120 and MICA, I'd contribute some open source info for the users...I can also ADD mica but haven't had the time to compile that yet..I had also compared Javelin and NAG in the similar manner, along with M1A1 Abrams and ARJUN MBT but never uploaded it as I'm not sure whether the BF user community would want Wiki information..
Btw you are right John, I did chop off the 00's in the K. That would make a big difference for both the users and the producers, yikes

Again Thanks all for getting this up on BR..
Gagan - Thanks for posting the JPG img..
Rahul for the suggestion and
John - for the correction
Good team work all

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Nov 2009 10:52

Add MICA to your table as next revision. And good job at the comparison.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Nov 2009 12:28

good job craig. one suggestion would be that since you are already putting in some hard work, put in some more and convert all data to same units. if you use metre for dimensions for one, use it for the other as well, if range is expressed in km for astra do the same for AMRAAM, not miles (and so on).

one little note : DRDO is not the manufacturer, it is the developer of the astra. I guess DRDL is the lab responsible. production, as and when that happens is likely to be carried out at BDL.

also, why compare nag to javelin, that's apples and oranges, completely different class of missiles.

.......................

I don't think this old report was posted here.
http://merachandigarh.in/chandigarh-new ... ight-.html
the article is full of typos and inaccuracies. anyone knows more about this project ?

Defence Research and Development Organisation develops lightweight rocket launcher for Indian Army
06 January, 2009 11:15:00

Chandigarh (Mera Chandigarh):- The research arm of Indian army, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has developed an indigenous lightweight rocket launcher for Indian army
It is to mention that currently Indian Infantry is using 14 kg Carl Gustav Mark-II launcher which is much heavier than DRDO developed rocket launcher.
......................
At presently, British SAS, US Navy Seals and the US Army Rangers and the Indian National Security Guards are using it but soon Indian army will be out of this list because it will used DRDO developed light weight 7 kg rocket launcher not 84-mm Carl Gustav rocket launcher of weight 14 kg.