Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - September 15, 2009

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Nov 2009 10:52

I'm taking my kid for his first match tomorrow

Lucky you

. Will be watching on tv even though matych won't be happening so far away (not LB but the new stadium near Uppal, I believe).

Another 26/11 looks like a forgone conclusion. But am not sure why GoI appears to be quite so upfront about retaliation ..... I fear for the worst.

I hope its not some JDAM style disaster the chinis have managed to supply and sweet-talk TSP into. Not that TSP needs sweet-talking when it comes to hurting India but IMO even TSP might need sweet-talk into committing spectacular soosai.

What can the chinis offer TSP in return? Protection from Yindian hot wrath? With what - a UNSC veto?? A_holes all. Hope GoI has sent the msg to all relevant qtrs that any JDAM on yindia means no country can hope to be safe after that - chini suitcases bums via tsp might flood the world and invoke retaliation in like terms.

Johann · Post by **Johann** » 04 Nov 2009 10:59

Muppalla,

Egypt and Algeria are also Western allies. Mubarak's assassination, or the fall of Algiers (a major oil exporter to the EU) would have been very, very bad for Western interests.

Bin Laden was pushed out of Sudan in 1996 largely as a result of Western as well as Arab pressure.

The Arab jihadists in Bosnia also fought the Croatians, whom both Germany and the US heavily supported in the war.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 04 Nov 2009 11:08

vermin -- islamists and islam itself to an extent. not IM.

the plurals have come up with the sachar commission proposal. a real olive branch, if implemented, to the followers. PC mentioned that islam cannot be treated as an alien faith. another arrow launched by plurals to woo the followers and indianise islam.

lets see where this takes us.

i know this is OT and will stop more posts on this.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Nov 2009 11:12

santoshriyer wrote:Guys I think pakistan ISI is planning something big. All this saying India propagates terror is that, when the terrorists attack India and many people are killed, when India points the finger towards Pakistan, then Pakis will do the same.

TSP's strategy here is as follows. They identify 'Indian hand' only with those whom the PA dislikes, like the Balochis or sections of the TTP aligned with the Uzbek/Chechen/Arab terrorists. This list of 'disliked' entities also includes some sections of the Punjabi Taliban like Lashkar-e-Jhangvi or Brigade 313 (while Jaish-e-Muhammad is viewed neutrally and of course Lashkar-e-Taiba positively). Thus, they want to create public sympathy for their on-going operations for nothing unites the fractious Pakistanis like 'kufr enemy India'. Secondly, such lies help to keep alive and even intensify the hatred for 'kufr enemy India', a necessary prerequisite for the PA to pursue its own goals. Whenever civilians rule Pakistan, the PA is unsure if anything is happening with India without its knowledge and so it stokes more terrorism to ensure that nothing untoward happens that may be detrimental to its objectives. This is especially true now when Zardari has said 'unpleasant things for PA's ears' and the PA-Zardari relationship is at its lowest. Thirdly, it helps to deflect international opinion about Pakistan. Fourthly, it will help to depict the impending Pakistani terror attack on India as an inescapable and justified retaliation coming as it does after Pakistan suffering untold miseries from India-controlled cross-border terrorism. Thus it will help equate India with Pakistan as an equal supporter of terrorism. Pakistan has no way of redeeming its image and its game plan now is to take India down along with it. The expectation in Pakistan might well be that a rattled India, afraid of its image and consequent impcat on economy, may well sue for peace. The Indian mistake of SeS will come handy for that purpose for Pakistan.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 04 Nov 2009 11:25

i think gen kapoor's statement of "india has to do whatever it takes to avoid 26/11 type attack" is very significant. i think it overtly conveys that india could strike preemptively if needed or take other steps in that direction.

i get this feeling that something big might happen during MMS US visit. but lets see...

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 04 Nov 2009 11:30

Isn't bangalore on the hitlist of these vermin ? Oh but wait, Yeddy is busy saving his post. BJP is making a mockery of it's mandate given by the people, cops are still busy collecting hafta and look least bothered about the heightened terror alert, TOI is busy printing tabloids about Ash wanting to get pregnant, and us commoners are waiting for the fateful day when somebody from ROP decides to donate an explosive gift at the nearest market.

Just my 2 cents observation from the daily cruising I do around IT City.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 04 Nov 2009 11:35

Nayak, welcome back. You were definitely missed.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 04 Nov 2009 11:36

milindc wrote:Nayak, welcome back. You were definitely missed.

Amen. AoA Nayakullah!

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Nov 2009 11:40

From NYTimes

Pakistanis Seek Blame for Bombing

The attack was so disturbing that people refused to believe that their countrymen were the culprits....“The Taliban talk about morality and women’s dress, but they wouldn’t do such a thing to us,” said Muhamed Orenzeib Khan, a gas station attendant who lost nine members of his family in the blast.

Mr. Afzal, who has relatives in Texas and Florida, offered a view of who was responsible, similar to many others interviewed here. “I’m telling you categorically — the people behind this bomb are the Indians and Mossad,” he said, referring to Israel’s intelligence agency. India and Pakistan are archenemies, and India figures into many Pakistani conspiracy theories.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 04 Nov 2009 11:46

Famed French judge Bruguiere tells of a troubled Pakistan

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 2513.story

His 481-page book, "What I Could Not Say," is to be published Monday in France. An advance copy obtained by The Times bolsters the 66-year-old official's swashbuckling reputation with previously undisclosed witness testimony and intelligence documents from a trove of case files.

The book details French investigations of extremist activity in Pakistan, including a case in which officials went as far as hiding militants from CIA inspection teams at a training camp run by the Pakistani military. Military handlers then sent the trainees on terrorist missions to the West, Bruguiere asserts.

CIA officers accompanied by Pakistani officials made four inspections of the camp, part of an agreement in which Pakistan had promised to prevent foreign militants from training with Lashkar, Bruguiere writes.

"But, since most of the officers of Lashkar belonged to the army, these inspections were doomed to draw a blank," the book says. "The foreign recruits were alerted on the eve of the arrival of the inspection teams by their instructors, military men informed by their hierarchy. The trainees then had to . . . erase any traces of their prsensence and head to an elevation of more than 13,000 feet while the inspection lasted." The book says Brigitte testified that his handler was a Pakistani military officer, identified as Sajid, who sent the Frenchman to Australia to join a cell plotting bomb attacks on targets including a nuclear plant. Alerted by French investigators on Brigitte's trail, Australian police arrested the group in 2003.

In 2006, Bruguiere went to the Pakistani port city of Karachi to investigate a suicide bombing that had killed 11 French naval contractors three years earlier. Pakistani security officials were uncooperative and hostile, he asserts.

"French officials in Pakistan were the target of threats and physical intimidation: A way of dissuading us from returning," he writes.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 04 Nov 2009 12:00

Nayakuddin AoA!!!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Nov 2009 12:16

Anjuman an intresting para from the link you had sent

Mr. Iqbal said he could not get the images of the women out of his mind, their naked bodies lying on the pavement, a deeply unnatural sight. “We are confused,” he said, as a backhoe scraped at what was left of his shop. “We are not blaming anyone. We are not ready to believe that this was done by a human being.”

Even at such a movement see how the ABdul's mind goes

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 04 Nov 2009 12:24

^^ Baki mind is bent twisted beyond normal humans. I guess Abdul is Necrophilliac and getting his kicks from oiling his gun barrel when experiencing reruns in his brain of that image. sick sick animals.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Nov 2009 12:40

Holbrooke's Comments

About Pakistan’s claim that India is supporting militancy in the Tribal Areas and an insurgency in Balochistan, the envoy said the US fully understood these concerns.

This is a very nuanced statement that renders itself to interpretation according to which side of the fence one is.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Nov 2009 12:43

Nayak wrote: The book says Brigitte testified that his handler was a Pakistani military officer, identified as Sajid, who sent the Frenchman to Australia to join a cell plotting bomb attacks on targets including a nuclear plant.

Why would a Paki officer send teams to other countries unless he was trained earlier to do the same thing.
Uncle has trained entire generations of Pak to attack rest of the world.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 04 Nov 2009 12:46

Former RAW chief on Pakistan.

http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/nov/ ... ration.htm

Such a mindset is not a product of recent history. At least a millennium has gone by producing factors, contributing to the psychology of this frame of mind. There are Pakistanis who believe Pakistan started incubating when the first Muslim stepped on the shores of the Indian subcontinent. Muslim encroachments and pillaging expeditions into India and subsequent establishment of Muslim ruling dynasties in India sparked off dreams that the whole of India should rightfully be ruled by Muslims.

Nobody in his right senses could agree to such an absurd proposition but such formulations have been voiced again recently by leaders of terrorist organisations in Pakistan like the Lashkar-e-Tayiba [ Images ]. For them creation of Pakistan is just an intermediate milestone in the march of history.

Never has sympathy stirred the hearts of Pakistanis when attacks by Pakistani terrorists have killed innocents, women and children in India. Enmity with India makes Pakistan focus its military and nuclear doctrine entirely against India. Increasing Islamisation of the rank and file of Pakistani military and nuclear establishment makes reconciliation with India almost impossible.

There are good reasons to believe that some in Pakistan are itching to unleash the nuclear arsenal on India. It will simply be unwise to think that the logic of deterrence that operated during the Cold War can be the guiding lights for the irrational minds that govern Pakistan.

Several other issues harden the Pakistani posture with anti India feelings. Regarding India as hegemonistic lands Pakistan in a perpetual conflictual stance. Search for parity with India in strength and influence amounts to a vain effort to prove geography wrong.

Plans of a modus vivendi remain unattainable because of the unquenched thirst for revenge in the Pakistani armed forces which suffered successive defeats in wars with India.

The causes of defeat remain incomprehensible to the military mind which then turns to the delusional solace that devotion to religion will turn the tables against the adversary.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 04 Nov 2009 12:48

SSridhar wrote:Holbrooke's Comments
About Pakistan’s claim that India is supporting militancy in the Tribal Areas and an insurgency in Balochistan, the envoy said the US fully understood these concerns.
This is a very nuanced statement that renders itself to interpretation according to which side of the fence one is.

Isn'r Holbrooke somewhat of pro Pak dude. He was putting pressure on Hilary to visit Pakistan when she visited India. He has been trying to get Kashmir into his agenda. So it is not surprising.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 04 Nov 2009 12:55

Dialogue with Pakistan only after anti-terror action: India (Times of India)

"We have conveyed many times our desire to engage in meaningful dialogue with Pakistan," Rao said here at a seminar on South Asia organised by the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses (IDSA). But a dialogue with Pakistan was "realistically possible", she stressed, only after Pakistan dismantled the infrastructure of terrorism on its soil. Pakistan must fulfil its commitment not to allow its territory to be used for terror activities against India, she said.

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 04 Nov 2009 13:16

Feds: Chicago men discussed terror attack in India (AP)

Federal prosecutors said in court papers that Chicago businessman Tahawwur Rana in September talked with another man charged in the case about designating the National Defense College of India as among possible targets they might pursue.

Prosecutors have said there were five such potential terrorist projects.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Nov 2009 13:18

So, the Gilani-Zardari tug-of-war continues unabated. Gilani cleverly converts every opportunity to cut Zardari down to size and takes the help of the PA and Nawaz.

Gilani leads small group to block NRO's passage to Parliament

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani led a small group of Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) lawmakers on Monday to outwit pro-NRO aides of President Asif Zardari – who, in the final analysis, agreed not to take the NRO to parliament for legislation, and silenced the voice of the majority “in the interest of democracy and the political system”.

Supported by Syed Khursheed Shah and Mian Raza Rabbani, the prime minister – who had already consulted coalition partners – explained the developing political situation to the president, who decided to leave the matter to the judiciary instead of seeking an endorsement from parliament. Sources privy to the Monday night meeting – which was held at the Presidency to discuss the NRO – told Daily Times that the participants were clearly divided into two groups. “Gilani, Khursheed Shah and Raza Rabbani were on one side, while Babar Awan, Rehman Malik, Fauzia Wahab, Afzal Sindhu and Mehreen Raja were on the other side,” said the sources.

They said Awan, Malik, Fauzia, Sindhu and Mehreen insisted that the NRO be brought to parliament for legislation, but the prime minister was of the view that all political parties – including government allies – were not ready to vote for the NRO. “So we should not take it to parliament.” Rabbani, who appeared to be agitated by the insistence of the pro-NRO group, clearly said, “I will not go against my conscience.”

Khursheed Shah said Rabbani was right, and endorsed the prime minister’s view that the issue would become a campaign against the government. “We should not ignore the fact that despite its passage by parliament, the Supreme Court could strike it down … this will not only be an insult to parliament, but will equally be an insult to the government,” the sources quoted Rabbani as saying. He agreed to let courts decide the cases of those likely to be affected if the NRO ceased to be a law.

Awan said the NRO should be brought to parliament for passage as amended by the standing committee. Fauzia said, “Since we have already taken a position on this issue, we should not bow to any pressure. What will the people say about us?”

The sources said Malik also backed this view. After listening to the views of the participants, the president decided not to bring the NRO to parliament.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Nov 2009 13:21

csharma wrote:Former RAW chief on Pakistan.

http://news.rediff.com/column/2009/nov/ ... ration.htm

So, the RAW understands, as it is expected to, Pakistan clearly. The bungling is then made only at the political level in dealing with TSP. Sixty two long years of non-stop bungling.

csharma · Post by **csharma** » 04 Nov 2009 13:33

Ahmad Rashid's book "Descent into Chaos" clearly shows how the ISI double crossed US. Does US have a strategy to deal with such a Pakistan which is backed by China? If US leaves Afghanistan, an emboldened Pakistan will create huge problems for countries in the region.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Nov 2009 13:45

Rahul Shukla wrote:Feds: Chicago men discussed terror attack in India (AP)

Federal prosecutors said in court papers that Chicago businessman Tahawwur Rana in September talked with another man charged in the case about designating the National Defense College of India as among possible targets they might pursue.
Prosecutors have said there were five such potential terrorist projects.

Precautions taken to safeguard Military Institutions - Pallam Raju

He also says

“I think the internal security situation in Pakistan seems to be deteriorating everyday and we really don’t know how long and how far the establishment would adequately be able to safeguard their strategic assets such as the nuclear assets.”

It is obvious that some of the military exercises in the region and possibly beyond are connected with the above assessment.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Nov 2009 14:31

A dream turned nightmare

A good analysis from a retired Pakistani Brigadier

Madam at it again

First they pushed for a military drive into SWA; but the moment that began, the US along with NATO vacated their own check posts on the Afghan side of the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. The only intent could have been to facilitate the flow of weapons to the TTP, which has external support from India through Afghanistan as well as it would now appear the US.

. . . getting into the IMF-World Bank trap is extracting a heavy price for the country - and let us recall that the World Bank has even advocated the government circumvent democracy by bypassing Parliament on the crucial issue of tax reform - do we have more viable options?

The answer is “yes”.

To begin with, we need to see a more holistic picture and think of more holistic solutions. Strategic or security issues also have an economic dimension but we have neglected to connect the dots here. The government needs to trim its fat in terms of expenditures. Why shouldn’t the parliamentarians take a pay cut instead of the usual rise they secure for themselves in every budget? That should net in a respectable amount of resources for development work. Then a cut in the size of the cabinet with all the attachments of assistants, the massive perks, and so on would result in a massive amount of resources can be diverted to education. Of course, the President could bring in a vast amount of his foreign resources for the country also and the PM, a man of independent means, could forego his salary and other perks. Official travel is another prime target for cuts. To sum up, by cost cutting (and there is much scope for this) and by ending corruption and smuggling, a major step forward could be taken towards liberating ourselves from the clutches of foreign aid, IMF-World Bank loans, and the ex-citibankers’ shadows.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Nov 2009 14:42

a number of people have been talking about India, the West and Islamism above. There is no doubt that the West ignored Islamism and then supported it against the Soviets. They turned the other way when it was directed at India, but only to appease Pakistan, which was 'an ally' in the anti-Soviet fight. they never cared about the indian perspective, because it was of no consequence then. it is of consequence now, that india is an economic power and directly impacts western interests.

But the more I read about islamism, the more i see that their agenda is and always has been much larger than India. In that respect Pakistan has always been on the peripheries of their thinking. The pakistanis though have managed the situation so that they are much more to the forefront - by force rather than ideology.

the core islamist focus remains on the arab heartlands, to cleanse and purify them. return them to a wahabbi interpretation, depose the pro-western munafiqs of egypt and the traitors of the house of saud. the west ignored their ideology thinking it to be inconsequential and unlikely to raise up. that was a mistake. because a 150 years ago, the same ideology, the same jihad was underway and the west crushed it. before that they beat the ottomans (who had taken the mantle over from the arabs), and before that the crusades.

India is the unfinished conquest of islam, like spain. the islamists see it as their 2nd order priority. the pakistanis have hijacked that agenda and tried to make it the #1 priority

the taliban are only secondarily attracted by khilafat, their primary goal is still pashtun nationalism, and they are likely to stay that way unless external forces (al quaeda and/or pakistan) acts on them. they are the unwitting fools/tools who are caught up in the middle, the TSPA is the gangster trying to take over the mob, whilst the keedas are still trying to finish the grand project. All are dangerous, but they are not all the same.

in the scenario where talibs take over pakistan, who and what do we mean? pashtuns? don't think so. it will be punjabi islamists and possibly some mohajirs. what will that mean? more civil war? baluchistan and sindh and pashtunistan will not hold together in a jehadi federation for long - unless there are external forces.

the right strategy for India would probably be to make the walls stronger and a very big stick ready and visible. the pakistanis can then drown in their own sewage. we'll deal with whatever survives.

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 04 Nov 2009 15:03

Army Chief Deepak Kapoor is getting very explicit. He mentioned that no action was taken on the people who perpetrated Parliament attack, Delhi blast and 26/11. He said no more and any further attack will not be tolerated.
I guess both Chidambaram and Kapoor have very specific information about impending attacks. They have now explicitly stated they will retaliate..

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Nov 2009 15:34

^^^ which is a signal to unkil to clamp down on the TSPA. i have no doubt that after 26/11 unkil put us under HUGE pressure not to act

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 04 Nov 2009 15:36

Lalbrofessor, aren't you missing the weakest link in the equation, the nation of face savers ???

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Nov 2009 15:39

Nayak wrote:Lalbrofessor, aren't you missing the weakest link in the equation, the nation of face savers ???

whilst they could instigate TSPA to act, it raises the stakes w.r.t. Unkil - not sure they are ready for that kind of game just yet

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 04 Nov 2009 15:53

I meant where do they stand amongst the islamists ? Are they viewed as allies or conquests ? Haven't the Arabs got long range missiles from them, right under the nose of Uncle ?

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 04 Nov 2009 17:58

csharma wrote:Ahmad Rashid's book "Descent into Chaos" clearly shows how the ISI double crossed US. Does US have a strategy to deal with such a Pakistan which is backed by China? If US leaves Afghanistan, an emboldened Pakistan will create huge problems for countries in the region.

Lalmohan wrote:the taliban are only secondarily attracted by khilafat, their primary goal is still pashtun nationalism, and they are likely to stay that way unless external forces (al quaeda and/or pakistan) acts on them. they are the unwitting fools/tools who are caught up in the middle, the TSPA is the gangster trying to take over the mob, whilst the keedas are still trying to finish the grand project. All are dangerous, but they are not all the same.

You put any number of scenarios such as:
(1) US troops may stay for very long
(2) get out in a time bound fashion and transfer to "good" Taliban
(3) TSPA defeats Taliban on behalf of US

The game is really up as Taliban/Pasthuns main goal is pashtun nationhood in this round of reconfiguration. They are in no mood to accept Punjab+Mohajir leadership. The inevitability is very clear to everyone involved and we will be seeing reactions due to rage, helplessness and "we have to do something to stop India" kind of mindset. For geopolitical handle, POK becomes the most important piece of land and we have to see Chin+Pakijab moves and how Uncle will accept a new reality.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 04 Nov 2009 18:09

Redemption Finally! Hallelujah! All hail Pookistan!
Glory Days Are Back Again
Pookies are a force to reckon with, Again! Hurrah.

A hat-trick for Pakistan sports

But no, it was true. Federer was in fact serving to Pakistan’s Qureshi in the ATP Swiss Indoors tournament in Basel, Switzerland.

That Pakistan were routing New Zealand in the first face-off since the infamous semi-final loss in the Champions Trophy seemed like an afterthought.

Pakistan’s lone hope on the international tennis circuit, Qureshi, along with his American partner Cerretani were leading the Swiss pairing of Federer and Chiudinelli five games to four in the first set. Qureshi had aced into Federer’s body, and to hear the commentator say ‘that’s tremendous serving by the Pakistani,’ was unreal for many reasons.

It’s rare to hear or read the word Pakistan during an ATP tour.

When Federer and Qureshi shook hands, it seemed in that instant as if Pakistani tennis had been recognised, and that the country had had its much needed ‘positive moment’ on the tennis world stage.

‘just imagine a Pakistani soap artist sharing a set with Al Pacino in a Hollywood movie.’

As the initial euphoria from the Qureshi win – more than Pakistan’s victory over New Zealand – was dying down, two magnificent goals by Sohail Abbas propelled Pakistan to a 4-2 win over France in the hockey World Cup qualifiers in Lille, France.

It capped an unbelievable day for Pakistan sports with the biggest moments coming from the most unlikely places. Such a hat-trick for Pakistan sports brought back memories of the 1990s when Pakistan ruled the world of cricket, hockey, squash, and snooker. Would it be premature to anticipate more glory days for Pakistan sports?

Wow, playing a "home one-day game" overseas, beating a no-name hockey team overseas, and winning a doubles game against an out-of-sync world figure can send the spookies into an uncontrollable tizzy. I guess, next stop: World Conquerors.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Nov 2009 18:23

Of all the states within Pakistan, the Pashtoons are the ones who are the most armed and militant, they already have carved out a federation for themselves where their writ runs supreme. Any intruder into that space, as the pak army is now discovering will have to pay a heavy price.

Compare this with the Baloch and the Sindhis, these two are either sparsely populated or relatively unarmed to be able to withstand the pak fauj. Both of them it seems have their leaders who are media savvy.

However, the one necessary element - viable intelligent media savvy leadership - is the vital ingredient missing from the Pashtoon dish. If a media savvy leadership were to emerge, Pashtoon nationalism will fly off. Pakistan won't be able to stop it I guess. However, the problem is that this will be a landlocked area dependent on the pakistani state for survival. These guys already have made the Iranians their enemies by their anti shia moves in the past.

Then it would have to be a joint Baloch and Pashtoon nationalism to jointly scecede from Pakistan.

So I say, more power to the Sindhis and the Baloch, and help the pashtoon evolve a leader.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 04 Nov 2009 18:25

The hands of the writer were shaking with excitement or the computer converted nov to 11 as the report was filed

A hat-trick for Pakistan sports
Posted by Taimur Sikander in Cricket, Sport on 11 4th, 2009 | 23 responses

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 04 Nov 2009 20:02

anupmisra wrote:Redemption Finally! Hallelujah! All hail Pookistan!
Glory Days Are Back Again

Hold on p-uh-lease. These pakis are taking part in a qualifier tournament for the WC that is to be held in Dilli

. It is a winner-take all event and they will be fighting a final against either Japan or France (in the latter's home turf), no-name countries in hockey, of course. Provided the pakis have 2 mins of meltdown in the finals, insha allah, all this bravado will come to nought and Sohail Abbas chacha will be the next hunted name in paki sport annals. But then when there is no grass to eat in pak-e-satan, there is little else to do than admire what used to be your crown jewels, not to mention that these crown jewels themselves are poor substitutes for the real jewels, no?!

arun · Post by **arun** » 04 Nov 2009 20:04

Nayak wrote:Famed French judge Bruguiere tells of a troubled Pakistan

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 2513.story

A good find and a worthwhile read on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan's habit of running with the hare and hunting with the hounds. I am however not convinced that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s aiding of terrorists represents a loss of state control and are acts of rogue military and intelligence officers as believed by Judge Bruguiere . I am more inclined to believe that this is State Sanctioned policy.

I have taken the liberty of cross posting the article.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Nov 2009 20:33

arun wrote:
Nayak wrote:Famed French judge Bruguiere tells of a troubled Pakistan

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 2513.story
A good find and a worthwhile read on the Islamic Republic of Pakistan's habit of running with the hare and hunting with the hounds. I am however not convinced that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s aiding of terrorists represents a loss of state control and are acts of rogue military and intelligence officers as believed by Judge Bruguiere . I am more inclined to believe that this is State Sanctioned policy.

I have taken the liberty of cross posting the article.

Seriously, India should give this judge a Padma *.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Nov 2009 21:03

It would seem that within the core commanders group, there is a crore commander group which consists of the COAS, Xth core commander, ISI Chief and a few more. This group along with either the navy chief or the Airforce chief, depending on the nature of the purchase, appropriate any monies that are coming in from any defense contracts / aid money.

Along with the crore commanders would be several 'enablers' - officers who do the dirty work, who would be trusted aides / relatives / belong to the same village, caste or sect, who also get their share. I guess a few civilian beuareucrats from the finance ministry, and the political leadership and his trusted aide also get their share.

The Job that the ISI is foremost entrusted with is to keep the army in good standing, well funded. All its actions can be seen from this prism.
Weather it is maintaining a certain degree of hostility towards India - gets them moolah from the chinese/western countries, keeps the huge jihad fauj engaged, and the ordinary abdul on the streets staunchly behind the pak fauj, because of the threat of Indian retaliation.

The other aspect of its functioning is internal. It prevents the politicians from acquiring a power base that has the potential to upsurp the army's hold onto pakistan's decision making, funding decisions. Towards this end, those politicians who have been co-opted by external powers are untrustworthy and the ISI indeed goes to great lengths to keep them away from power, unless these guys cut a deal with the army leadership itself.

Afghanistan seems to be a job that is potentially a money spinner for the Army's senior bosses. Everyone from the Chinese to the Americans to the Indians are vying for a peaceful afghanistan that is under their respective control so that access to CAS is possible and is in their favour. Afghanistan is the classic example of what happens to a country when it is strategically located - when major foreign powers will intervene and make a kichri out of it. Sooner of later this intervention will spread into CAS itself if afghanistan gets stabilized and we will see another round of superpower and regional power battles going on in Khazakhistan and other CAS, with islamization thrown into the mix.

The US and Indian goal in afghanistan is to keep it quiet and have access via pipelines to CAS, Russia and China's intentions are the opposite, to keep it boiling so that while they continue to have access, the same is denied to the americans. Pakistan is caught in between or is benefiting from both sides. It takes money from the US to try and keep Afghanistan from going overboard, and it surely benefits from the chinese supply of arms to keep afghanistan boiling at the right temperature. I don't believe in strategic depth so much, because pakistan army's main base if pakistani punjab. If that is lost, all is lost for them. What will strategic depth do to help them there?

India is into afghanistan to get a favorable route to CAS and to maintain pressure on pakistan's backdoor. For now it seems indian and american interests are similar.

JMTs

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 04 Nov 2009 22:32

Trying to "keep it quiet" in Afghanistan must be like being a "Moderator" in BRF. Just a thought...

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Nov 2009 22:45

enqyoob wrote:Trying to "keep it quiet" in Afghanistan must be like being a "Moderator" in BRF. Just a thought...

BRF Moderators trying their level best to control the Forum,
And issuing 3 warnings...