Strategic leadership for the future of India

Muppalla
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Muppalla » 09 Nov 2009 20:32

RayC,

Just an FYI

B.Raman was/is a member of BRF and he used to post here. The comment he made during kandhahar/(or some other terror attack) - The armed forces men and women are paid to die and he implied as though we don't need to care that much about them. Whatever the context it was and I am not the judge of whether it is correct or not. It did look very insensitive on an Indian Mil forum.

He was here even before you joined this forum ( unless if you are a lurker/ with other handle during those days).

BRF is a massively read forum by many folks from all strata of society. The MODs are doing a great job in keeping it fair and balanced of whatever the percieved right and left of India. There are times when a certain difficult topics were allowed to be discussed. We all hope the tradition continues. However, it does not look good if you imply that the new policy of moderation is due to comment from one B.Raman. I hope whatever you guys are doing is based on a greater judgement and not a knee-jerk reaction just due to B.Raman's noise.

brihaspati
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby brihaspati » 09 Nov 2009 21:04

Religion and politics is only separable for a short period of transition in any society. THis is when a dominant form of religion is identified with a pre-existing political regime or setup that has also somehow been discredited. THe overwhelming need to change the nature and organization of the rashtra then weakens the defence of the "religion". Once the overthrow of the older regime is over, either the very same older dominant religion in a new form/under new "priesthood" or a complete replacement with a new religion takes place.

Religion cannot remain separated from rashtra and its politics for long - because both are manifested through the same agent - the societal human being. In the human mind religion and politics will always overlap, and one will influence the other. Those who claim or think that no religion affects their politics are either self-delusional or have conscious hidden agenda about propagating a certain mixture of politics and religion over and above other such "mixtures".

To be fair it is a most difficult task to recognize that one's own thinking about a practical matter of politics is being affected by subconscious attitudes and beliefs. But it is a task that can be undertaken. I would humbly request all currently engaged in this sub-debate about "mixing religion and politics" who think "they must be kept separated" to take some time out to think on this - and see whether deep inside themselves it is not some religion or other (or what has been taught about such religions) that is affecting their other actions or choices.

Personally speaking, I have chosen my philosophy to be based on what I interpret the essence of Upanishadic thinking to be, since it aligns with my own training in science and mathematics - which is that of a neverending quest for increasing understanding and knowledge. For me, that is the supreme principle, around which all else should revolve. Therefore, when it comes to leadership and strategy for it, I would look for leadership strategy that build its politics - which is about the management of the society, towards that fundamental quest. Understanding and knowledge can only go forward in a society that is free to think and express itself, or face freely any idea proposed to think on. Understanding and knowledge can only go forward in a society that is productive enough to provide surplus time and energy required. It can only go forward in a society that can guarantee protection of this quest-friendly environment against other societies, countries, nations that deny rights for such quest - and who seek to do so through coercion if necessary.

I believe that the greatest natural guarantor of such a quest, is a living healthy society that preserves and adds on to accumulated knowledge and understanding of the past, constantly re-examining them for veracity. Any ideology, that seeks to destroy such a society, or impose its own brands of restrictions on free thought/exploration/seeking by claiming that only that ideology has all specific answers - and submission is required compulsorily in slavery to that ideology in perpetuity - is for me an enemy of humanity. Such ideologies, and ideologues have to be reduced to complete emasculation whenever and wherever, and however possible. It is the task of strategic leadership to keep this clearly in mind.

Both the two proselytizing branches of the Abrahamic (not the Jews), and Communism as well as Fascism/Nazism of the European variety belong to these destructive, anti-knowledge group of ideologies. They do compromise on specific branches of practical knowledge that is necessary for the societies under their control to gain in coercive powers - but this liberalism does not extend to philosophy.

Strategic leadership for India cannot do anything that encourages, protects, hides the real nature and agenda of these ideologies. For giving them any ground as ideologies, means inching closer to destruction of that society that sustains free exploration and quest. The common follower of these ideologies are perhaps as confused and hazy about these real agenda as passionate external protectors of these ideologies are. They are not the targets. People in leadership niches, who have reasons to have influence over large number of people, should be more careful when dealing with such ideologies. That is all that I have tried to draw attention to.

Meanwhile, the "encirclement" I have talked of in the "future strategic" thread seems to be proceeding at full pace. The realignment of forces around the perimeter states of Rajasthan, Punjab, Haryana,Uttarakhand,UP, Bihar, WB, Orissa, Andhra, Karnataka, Maharashtra and Gujarat - are interesting. They are all more orless converging to similar agenda, slogans, public-"issues". Increasing regionalism, xenophobia, homogenization towards the INC, revival of political Islam with tacit allowance and no criticism from the media, resurgence of Maoist violence, separatist pressures in J&K and NE, posturings by PRC and TSP.

Is this a sign of convergence towards a stronger "centre" or basically a step towards increasing political leadership vacuum? I am inclined towards the latter position.

brihaspati
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby brihaspati » 09 Nov 2009 21:15

I have identified "enemies" : ideologues of specific coercive ideologies:
I have omitted "common followers" as targets : they are as much victims as non-members are
I have given my own perception of "religion" : never-ending quest for increasing understanding and knowledge
I have given natural consequence of such a "religion" : do everything to strengthen, and preserve the living society that makes the quest feasible
I have given the method to keep that society "safe" : destruction of the ideologies that seek to destroy this society, and destroy their ideologues - not the common follower.

I hope we can move from this to possible discussion about leadership vacuums - or non-vacuums?

SwamyG
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 09 Nov 2009 21:21

Can we get back to discussing "Leadership" for the future of "India"?

Muppalla
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Muppalla » 09 Nov 2009 21:32

RayC wrote:It was a delight to see the Muslim boy taking on Buhari in We the People that he will sing Vande Mataram with all the passion that is there in the song!


Ok - Here you have another news which is similar.

Muslims defy fatwa, sing Vande Mataram

BETUL (MP): Defying the 'fatwa' issued by Jamiat-Ulama-e-Hind against rendition of Vande Mataram, a group of Muslims led by a clergyman joined people from other communities in singing the national song in front of a mosque here.

A large number of people from a cross section of the society collected in front of the Jama Masjid at Betul Bazar at the invitation of its Imam Hafiz Abdul Razique and recited the song yesterday.

RayC
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 21:38

Muppalla wrote:
RayC wrote:It was a delight to see the Muslim boy taking on Buhari in We the People that he will sing Vande Mataram with all the passion that is there in the song!


Ok - Here you have another news which is similar.

Muslims defy fatwa, sing Vande Mataram

BETUL (MP): Defying the 'fatwa' issued by Jamiat-Ulama-e-Hind against rendition of Vande Mataram, a group of Muslims led by a clergyman joined people from other communities in singing the national song in front of a mosque here.

A large number of people from a cross section of the society collected in front of the Jama Masjid at Betul Bazar at the invitation of its Imam Hafiz Abdul Razique and recited the song yesterday.


Music to my ears!

India is indeed Great!

It is great since it is a signal that the Indian society will oppose divisive forces!

We are ONE!

Strategic leadership demands from other issues to make India shun religion and caste as a divisive element!

God bless India and people like Imam Hafiz Abdul Razique!

I am so proud of them!

Thank you for this link!

SwamyG
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 09 Nov 2009 21:49

Brihaspati ji:
Please read these when you get the time.
1. Indian Theory of Leadership from Thirukkural
Abstract:
Efficiency of an organization, be it a company at a micro level or a country at a macro level, is primarily determined by the efficiency of the resources such as raw materials, machines, buildings, policies, capital, etc. The efficiency of these resources depend on the efficiency of another factor namely Human Resource. However the efficiency of all resources including human resource is determined by the quality of the leadership. Various scholars have studied leadership over time and thus various theories of leadership exist today. India had produced brilliant leaders in her history that the mankind would find it difficult even to believe that such people walked on this earth. A few examples are namely Lord Buddha, Mahavir, Gurunanak, Swami Vivekananda, Mahatma Gandhi, etc. To rediscover the Indian contribution to management wisdom, leadership in particular, this paper attempts to highlight an Indian theory of leadership based on Thirukkural, an acclaimed original Indian work on management that is more than 2000 years old. This study finds that Thirukkural not only presents a theory of leadership but also suggests that, perhaps there are some born leaders but leaders can also be made! Besides, this theory is also consistent with traits theory of leadership, behavioral theory of leadership, social cognitive resource theory of leadership and ethical theory of leadership of the modern times as well!

2. Principles of Role-Modeling from Indian Management Thought: Thirukkural
Abstract:
Headless body is dead in the case of all living organisms. The quality of the head determines the efficiency and effectiveness of the body. This is truer even in the case of artificial organisms like companies or countries. A firm will struggle and soon die without leadership. The quality of the leadership determines the efficiency, effectiveness and growth of the firm especially in the context of increased globalization. The Management literature prescribes various leadership styles for the effectiveness of the organization. Indian scholars seem to prescribe role modeling as a strategic leadership style in Thirukkural and the Bhagavat Gita. The guidelines to play role modelship seem to be missing in the literature. This paper attempts to present a set of principles or guidelines to play the role-modelship from Thirukkural, an Indian contribution to management wisdom more-than-2000-year ago!

SwamyG
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby SwamyG » 09 Nov 2009 22:20

Brihaspati ji: An article on ToI from 2004 THE LEADER ARTICLE: Strange Bedfellows: Sankaracharya's Politics At Odds With Spiritual Role. Though I exhibit no desire to shoot the messenger of a thought, I could not help in noticing the author's name :mrgreen:

vera_k
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby vera_k » 09 Nov 2009 22:28

On Vande Mataram, is this a Shia vs. Sunni divide? The RSS/MRM folks quoted in the article below are relying on a Shia cleric.

Muslim organisation slams Vande Mataram fatwa

The Muslim Rashtriya Manch has slammed the Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind for passing a resolution, which described Vande Mataram as un-Islamic and asked Muslims not to sing it. According to the Manch, which follows the ideology of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), Muslims who oppose Vande Mataram are opponents of Islam and the nation

Rahul M
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2009 22:43

vera_k wrote:On Vande Mataram, is this a Shia vs. Sunni divide? The RSS/MRM folks quoted in the article below are relying on a Shia cleric.

Muslim organisation slams Vande Mataram fatwa

The Muslim Rashtriya Manch has slammed the Jamiat Ulema-i-Hind for passing a resolution, which described Vande Mataram as un-Islamic and asked Muslims not to sing it. According to the Manch, which follows the ideology of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), Muslims who oppose Vande Mataram are opponents of Islam and the nation

don't know if it's a shia vs sunni divide but I read an article today by a muslim columnist which strongly criticised the decision. perhaps it's a deobandi thing ?

ramana
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby ramana » 09 Nov 2009 22:51

RahulM , Please try to follow the debate on reciting Vande Mataram by Indian Muslimss. The voice of dissent would be the first time the IM is showing its independence after the British crafted the Anglo-Muhammaden law in the early 1930s.
What happened then was the for expedience, the British codified the Shariat as represented by Deobandis and forged one common Islamic law for all IMs. This forced the non-Muslim perception of various Muslims who were all shadesfrom pale apple green to dark green neem patta into one dark green.

RayC
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 22:56

Are Deobandis any better than the Wahaabis?

ramana
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby ramana » 09 Nov 2009 23:01

RayC wrote:Are Deobandis any better than the Wahaabis?



Deobandi: Wahabi = Taliban : Al Qaida

In other words local : global

Then there are doctrinal issues at work.

Wahabis want to re-Arabise Islam and take it back to the roots of the four rightly guided Caliphs.

Deobandis are Indian sub-continent specific which menas at the core they will have differ with the Wahabis. But this will surface only when all are Dar-ul-Islam.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2009 23:05

ramana ji, I am actually interested in some particular people's reaction to this, like MJ Akbar.

doesn't have an entry on his blog on this, till now.

RayC
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby RayC » 09 Nov 2009 23:06

ramana wrote:
RayC wrote:Are Deobandis any better than the Wahaabis?



Deobandi: Wahabi = Taliban : Al Qaida

In other words local : global

Then there are doctrinal issues at work.

Wahabis want to re-Arabise Islam and take it back to the roots of the four rightly guided Caliphs.

Deobandis are Indian sub-continent specific which menas at the core they will have differ with the Wahabis. But this will surface only when all are Dar-ul-Islam.



True.

I have seen their work in Kashmir.

I dare say it was for the national cause!

ramana
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby ramana » 09 Nov 2009 23:08

Rahul M wrote:ramana ji, I am actually interested in some particular people's reaction to this, like MJ Akbar.

doesn't have an entry on his blog on this, till now.


You wont see it for quite a while. He is Deobandi in suit.

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Chandragupta » 09 Nov 2009 23:11

On the issue of Vande Mataram, I think no one should have any problems about some muslims deciding not to sing the song, but declaring it un-Islamic & deliver a fatwa is unasked for. It shows how religiously motivated their action is. Tomorrow if India goes to war with Saudi Arabia will such people declare fighting the arabs as un-islamic & declare a fatwa against muslims serving in the armed forces?

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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby Sanku » 09 Nov 2009 23:14

http://www.dailypioneer.com/214156/Prou ... taram.html

Proud to sing Vande Mataram

Kanchan Gupta


Proud to sing Vande Mataram

Kanchan Gupta

There is understandable disquiet over the resolution adopted by Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind during its 30th general session at Deoband from November 1-3. “The grand session of Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind while expressing concern over communal hatred and violence exploiting the issue of Vande Mataram, condemns the provocative activities in this connection,” the resolution says, “We can love and serve our country, but cannot elevate it to the status of Allah, the only one worshipped by Muslims… The fatwa of Darul Uloom (Deoband) is correct… This house demands that the issue of Vande Mataram not be deliberately raised for causing communal discord and threat to law and order.”

Not be deliberately raised? This is truly astounding. Without any provocation whatsoever, Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind adopts a resolution endorsing a fatwa against Vande Mataram issued by Darul Uloom, Deoband, and urging India’s Muslims not to sing the National Song lest it defile Islam. Yet it wants the resolution to be seen as a warning to those “causing communal discord and threat to law and order” — a not-so-thinly veiled reference to Hindus — by “deliberately” raising the “issue of Vande Mataram”.

The resolution apparently refers to a fatwa reportedly issued in 2006 by Darul Uloom, Deoband, instructing Muslims not to participate in the celebrations planned by the Ministry of Human Resource Development to mark the centenary of Congress adopting Vande Mataram as the National Song on September 7, 1906, as it would require the singing of Bankimchandra Chattopadhyay’s soul-stirring immortal lines. The mullahs of Deoband need not have worried. Whoever had given the idea to Mr Arjun Singh had got his date wrong. The planned celebrations turned into a fiasco after historians pointed out that the Congress never met in September 1906, so it could not have possibly adopted Vande Mataram as the National Song on that date.

On that occasion, too, Indians, including Muslims, were outraged by the Deobandi fatwa reported by media. But was there really a fatwa? On September 4, CNN-IBN reported that no such fatwa had been issued by Darul Uloom, Deoband. According to this news channel, the seminary wanted to “steer clear of the issue” and insisted that it had no “role to play” in the controversy. Darul Uloom, Deoband “categorically stated it had not issued any fatwa on Vande Mataram, nor had it directed Muslim children to skip classes on September 7”. After the mandatory finger-pointing at “communal forces”, Mohatamim Maulana Margoobur Rehman told CNN-IBN, “Darul Uloom is being unnecessarily dragged into the Vande Mataram controversy.”

The official website of Darul Uloom, Deoband, does not list the edict instructing Muslims not to sing Vande Mataram which has been cited by Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind. But the website of Darul Ifta, the fatwa division of Darul Uloom, Deoband, lists a fatwa (385/358-B/1430) dated April 7, 2009, which says Muslim children “should avoid hymning it (Vande Mataram)” as it is “against our creed of tauheed”. A classic example of taqiya? Was the April 7, 2009 fatwa meant to set the stage for the Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind’s November resolution? Why was it issued after Deoband vigorously distanced itself from the “Vande Mataram controversy”? And, what prompted Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind to revive the rancid debate over whether it’s haram for Muslims to sing Vande Mataram? Was the purpose to provoke a backlash and then claim victimhood?

In a sense, any discussion on the repudiation of Indian nationhood by Islamic fanatics who view India’s National Song not as a celebration of the concept of motherland as defined by our civilisational ethos but as Hindu idolatory is meaningless. There’s nothing startlingly new about the vitriolic denunciation of Vande Mataram by Maulana Mahmood Madani and his ilk who believe “bringing women into the mainstream will create social problems and issues including their security”, want India’s Muslims to “don their Islamic identity”, say salam instead of namaste and live in a joyless, dark world of ignorance where sharia’h will apply to girls as young as 10 years old.

We have heard similar denunciation of Vande Mataram with the explicit purpose of hurting the sensitivities of India’s majority Hindu community and rejecting India as a nation earlier too. And the attack has not been restricted to our National Song. Maulana Syed Abul Hasan Ali Nadwi (better known as Ali Mian) of Darul Uloom Nadwatul Ulama, the other famous Islamic seminary, was unrestrained by such considerations as Hindu sentiments.

“Cow-slaughter in India is a ‘great Islamic practice’, said Mujaddid Alaf Saani II. This was his farsightedness that he described cow-slaughter in India as a ‘great Islamic practice’. It may not be so in other places. But it is definitely a great Islamic act in India because the cow is worshipped in India,” Ali Mian said in an address to a congregation of Indian and Pakistani ulema in Jeddah on April 3, 1986. Ali Mian and his fellow ulema on the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board, which lacks legitimacy yet holds Muslims in thraldom, were to later issue a fatwa against the singing of Vande Mataram by Muslims.

Issuing fatwas against Vande Mataram can be traced to Congress’s willing capitulation in the face of opposition by those who place faith over nation. In 1923, the Congress met at Kakinada and Maulana Mohamed Ali was brought to the venue in a procession led by a raucous band. As was the practice, the session was scheduled to begin with a rendition of Vande Mataram by Pandit Vishnu Digambar Paluskar. When Pandit Paluskar rose to sing what had by then become the anthem of India’s freedom movement, Maulana Mohamed Ali protested, saying music was a “taboo in Islam” and, therefore, singing Vande Mataram would “hurt” his religious sensitiveness. Pandit Paluskar retorted that the Congress session was an open gathering and not a religious congregation; and since Maulana Mohamed Ali had not found the band that led his procession as “taboo in Islam”, he could not object to the singing of Vande Mataram. He then went on to sing Bankim’s composition which Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi associated with “the purest national spirit”.

It is this national spirit which bothers those among us who are loath to see their identity linked to the identity of India. At the far end we have the likes of Maulana Mahmood Madani with their separatist agenda, but that does not mean every Muslim is persuaded by the Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind’s bunkum. My respect for Mr Shahid Siddiqui has gone up by leaps and bounds for thumbing his nose at the mullahs and declaring that he not only sings Vande Mataram but sings it with pride. Mr Siddiqui is not in a minority of one — there are many Muslims who will lend their voice to him because they are proud to be Indian.

ramana
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Re: Strategic leadership for the future of India

Postby ramana » 09 Nov 2009 23:20

Some people in media are playing fast and loose with religious bodies. And Sarkar and afffected parties has to take note and prevent further erosion of trust.


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