PRC Economy and Industry: News and Discussions

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 23 Nov 2009 22:47

Hari Seldon wrote:^^^ Isn't India running a net net deficit whereas cheena is running a huge surplus? That might figure since sovereign risk rating carries over to all the banks under the regulation of the sovereign gubmint.

Well, US and it's munna are running massive deficits, as is Japan, but have AAA ratings. I'm not asking anyone to defend CRAs. I'm just interested in knowing what combination of actions - fair and/or foul - enable the PRC to obtain preferential credit rating terms. Understanding how this works for them is useful...

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 23 Nov 2009 23:07

There's a school of thought that believes the PRC cooks its statistics. Wouldn't that cause the formulae used by the CRAs to emit better credit ratings?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 23 Nov 2009 23:08

vera_k wrote:There's a school of thought that believes the PRC cooks its statistics. Wouldn't that cause the formulae used by the CRAs to emit better credit ratings?

Well, that is the easy answer. Data, or at least reference articles on the topic, would be much more useful.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Nov 2009 00:13

Found this one: http://www.globalsecuritieswatch.org/Ch ... istory.pdf

It looks like issuance of a large amount of debt will get oneself a better credit rating, because that assures business for the CRA. In this case, it does not even matter that the PRC has a history of default on sovereign debt.

Prasanth · Post by **Prasanth** » 24 Nov 2009 05:35

Suraj wrote:
Hari Seldon wrote:Dunno about why our banks are feeling the love but the cheeni banks aren't running USD debt. They seem to hold USD credit since cheena==CPC==PBoC==its state owned banks only (in terms of sovereign credit rating that is shared across all these hydrahead entities.
And how is this any different from India ? We don't hold significant USD debt either. In fact, we can pay out all real (i.e.,m not bookkeeping) external debt tomorrow and have >$200 billion of forex reserves left over. Never mind the CRA racket, I would like to understand what combination of policies the Chinese banking sector pursues that the CRAs don't find egregious w.r.t. to their ratings tamasha. Clearly, they've understood the game and have played along, or are actively colluding (since the CRAs are paid to rate). It helps to understand how they're doing it.

Suraj,

Whatever rating agencies or system is nothing but a scam. If they can rate subprime as AAA, BBB or whatever and yet the whole freaking thing crashes, how much confidence do you have in them. The main reason China has got good rating is not because of good banking practices, it's all down to the dollars they have and how confident the agency thinks of them. Two criteria, surplus of dollars and debt free + powerful government to honor debt.

One example, let's say Indonesia, would an investor be more confident in Indonesian sovereign bonds or Chinese sovereign bonds? I would not want to compare to India, you go figure yourselves.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/in.html
This is from the CIA as per 2008 figures, Indian reserves is around 250 bil and debt is around 230 bil.

Vera,

I believe those defaulted debts were pre-WWII. After the establishment of PRC, they refused to honor those debt due to unequal terms.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 Nov 2009 05:57

Prasanth wrote:The main reason China has got good rating is not because of good banking practices, it's all down to the dollars they have and how confident the agency thinks of them. Two criteria, surplus of dollars and debt free + powerful government to honor debt.

References ? Is the basis for rating external debt or internal debt ? As I said previously, whether or not the CRAs are a scam is another matter - *how* does it work, with respect to China. Please, no general statements - data and article cites would be much more useful.

As a note on Indian debt composition, 80% of Indian debt is long term debt (~$180 billion, of which NRI deposits constitute $40 billion), which are very 'sticky' in nature. Short term debt, which is the most volatile component, accounts for merely $48 bilion, or under 20% of total debt. Sovereign debt was $58 billion, while non-govt debt was a little over $170 billion, predominantly external commercial borrowings. Reference.

Just in terms of qualitative risk, Chinese external debt breakdown is *far* more oriented towards short term debt (>55%) than Indian debt composition: reference

Long and medium-term external debt, which accounted for 43.74 percent of the total, stood at $163.9 billion, up 6.74 percent, or $10.3 billion.

Short-term external debt, however, fell 4.23 percent, or $9.3 billion year on year to $210.8 billion.

So, what are the rating metrics that govern sovereign and banking entity ratings ?

Prasanth · Post by **Prasanth** » 24 Nov 2009 06:08

Suraj wrote:
Prasanth wrote:The main reason China has got good rating is not because of good banking practices, it's all down to the dollars they have and how confident the agency thinks of them. Two criteria, surplus of dollars and debt free + powerful government to honor debt.
References ? Is the basis for rating external debt or internal debt ? As I said previously, whether or not the CRAs are a scam is another matter - *how* does it work, with respect to China. Please, no general statements - data and article cites would be much more useful.

As a note on Indian debt composition, 80% of Indian debt is long term debt (~$180 billion, of which NRI deposits constitute $40 billion), which are very 'sticky' in nature. Short term debt, which is the most volatile component, accounts for merely $48 bilion, or under 20% of total debt. Sovereign debt was $58 billion, while non-govt debt was a little over $170 billion, predominantly external commercial borrowings. Reference.

Just in terms of qualitative risk, Chinese external debt breakdown is *far* more oriented towards short term debt (>55%) than Indian debt composition: reference
Long and medium-term external debt, which accounted for 43.74 percent of the total, stood at $163.9 billion, up 6.74 percent, or $10.3 billion.

Short-term external debt, however, fell 4.23 percent, or $9.3 billion year on year to $210.8 billion.
So, what are the rating metrics that govern sovereign and banking entity ratings ?

Seriously, I don't know the rating metrics. Any gurus here with an insight?

Regarding short term or long term debt, does it matter? It's still debt. Chinese reserves is around 2 trillion with 400 bil debt, tht is a ration of 5:1.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 Nov 2009 06:23

Prasanth wrote:Regarding short term or long term debt, does it matter? It's still debt. Chinese reserves is around 2 trillion with 400 bil debt, tht is a ration of 5:1.

Can you look up data to prove that the reserve:debt ratio has an important role to play in the CRA sovereign rating, not just for China, but for any given major economy ?

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Nov 2009 07:03

There's a lot more involved that just the reserve/debt ratio. Register and read the S&P criteria -

http://www.standardandpoors.com/prot/ra ... 407#ID2906

Also, read the characteristics by rating category -

http://www.standardandpoors.com/prot/ra ... 5195004593

Geopolitical risk plays a part in the rating too. In which case it makes sense that India can never be rated as high as the PRC until the geopolitical issues are solved.

Prasanth · Post by **Prasanth** » 24 Nov 2009 10:11

Suraj wrote:
Prasanth wrote:Regarding short term or long term debt, does it matter? It's still debt. Chinese reserves is around 2 trillion with 400 bil debt, tht is a ration of 5:1.
Can you look up data to prove that the reserve:debt ratio has an important role to play in the CRA sovereign rating, not just for China, but for any given major economy ?

I wasn't specifying that for CRA. I was trying to correct you that India will not have a 200 bil surplus even after paying their debt. It doesn't matter whether its short or long, it's still debt. You cannot calculate surpluses like that.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 Nov 2009 10:34

Prasanth wrote:I wasn't specifying that for CRA.

Well, what were you specifying ? Do you have data to support the contention that the reserves/debt ratio has a bearing upon CRA sovereign ratings ? Or was that just a general claim you've nothing further to back up with ?

I was trying to correct you that India will not have a 200 bil surplus even after paying their debt. It doesn't matter whether its short or long, it's still debt. You cannot calculate surpluses like that.

Fine, taking into account all debt, not just short term debt that is most liable, India will have $50 billion left over after paying out every last penny of external debt it owes, if that unlikely scenario comes to pass. I made the distinction between short term debt (after paying which we will indeed have >$200B left over) and long term liabilities because all long term debts are *not* required to be repaid - a significant component of those liabilities are bookkeeping ones, e.g. all remittance deposits held in repatriable accounts. By definition, every $ of remittance of the sort adds $1 to both forex reserves and to external debt. Further, not all long term debt is prepayable, and in several instances, have prepayment penalties, as the NDA administration encountered when it tried to prepay external loans back in ~2003.

What difference does it make to a CRA that India has $200B or $50 left over after paying all debts ? Either way, we're still capable of paying out every last penny, including the theoretical argument of compelling every NRE account holder to close their account. As I mention, remittances are very sticky in nature, and tends to increase rather than decrease when Indian macroeconomic situation worsens (because the remitter tries to provide additional support). In that sense they are significantly different from standard external debt components, short or long term.

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Nov 2009 12:13

Ouch.. Very Ouch. This Comment By MMS should really really hurt. Now this is sure to bring all the Drone Acharyas crawling out of the woodwork.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 24 Nov 2009 18:26

BW:

Could China Buy GM?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Nov 2009 22:08

http://in.reuters.com/article/businessN ... 7220091124

ANALYSIS - China banks' rush for billions could trip markets
Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:28pm IST
By Samuel Shen and Doug Young

SHANGHAI/HONG KONG (Reuters) - Chinese banks, under government pressure to shore up their finances, are set to unleash a wave of billions of dollars in capital raising that could strain equity markets but also spur innovation in debt instruments.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 25 Nov 2009 17:00

China urges favorable conditions for labor service cooperation with India

BEIJING, Nov. 24 (Xinhua) -- China on Tuesday called for favorable conditions for labor service cooperation with India, saying the cooperation benefits both countries.
...
A new visa policy, issued in mid-July by Indian authority, has affected expatriates working in India on a business visa, which previously had been allowed for a wider range of occupations and employees.

Approximately 25,000 Chinese workers in such sectors as power generation, communication and petroleum in India will be affected by the new policy, according to reports.

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 26 Nov 2009 18:09

China's ballooning stock market bubble, fuelled by excessive liquidity, is likely to burst in the first half of 2010, punctured by economic concerns arising from higher-than-expected inflation, Morgan Stanley Asia executive director Jerry Lou said on Thursday.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 26 Nov 2009 19:22

I holdit to be a self-evident truth that things continue, until they don't. Especially Unsustainable things. But wouldn't count on resident cheena-premis to get the point though.

vina · Post by **vina** » 26 Nov 2009 20:38

Well. The Cheenis are going to get their comeuppance. The question is when.

As we always knew , Dubai was clearly an unsustainable bubble financed by massive borrowing. Let us see , now that soverign backed companies have defaulted, what real value does "soverign" guarantee of Dubai is worth.

Funny, it might end up being the first country in GCC to introduce income taxes.. Or rather, the debtors theoretically can do so now.

The Cheena disneyesque asset bubble, esp in real estate etc is multiple times Dubai's.. The thing is Cheena , just like Dubai has "free" land and literally "slave labor" , just like Dubai toiling away, but fundamentally it's banks are shot, they have invested in massive industrial white elephants and built excess capacity in a whole lot of sectors which can never be used at anywhere near the break even point economically. Inevitably, it will collapse.

Cheena can definitely sustain it longer than Dubai can , but when it falls, the pressure would have built up longer and to a greater intensity and will go off in a massive Kaboom!

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 26 Nov 2009 22:29

vina wrote:Well. The Cheenis are going to get their comeuppance. The question is when.

As we always knew , Dubai was clearly an unsustainable bubble financed by massive borrowing. Let us see , now that soverign backed companies have defaulted, what real value does "soverign" guarantee of Dubai is worth.

Funny, it might end up being the first country in GCC to introduce income taxes.. Or rather, the debtors theoretically can do so now.

The Cheena disneyesque asset bubble, esp in real estate etc is multiple times Dubai's.. The thing is Cheena , just like Dubai has "free" land and literally "slave labor" , just like Dubai toiling away, but fundamentally it's banks are shot, they have invested in massive industrial white elephants and built excess capacity in a whole lot of sectors which can never be used at anywhere near the break even point economically. Inevitably, it will collapse.

Cheena can definitely sustain it longer than Dubai can , but when it falls, the pressure would have built up longer and to a greater intensity and will go off in a massive Kaboom!

How good OR bad is this for Bhaarat? Surely, cheeni people must be taking some measures to avoid this projected crash OR decrease its malevolence and intensity. What measures should Cheeni people take to avoid this kaboom?

If they take those measures, how will it affect India?
If they do not take those measures, how will it affect India?

Assuming, India grows at 7-8% per annum in next decade.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 27 Nov 2009 02:04

Well ... the latest asset bubble in China ... you guessed it .. "garlic" ...

Swine flu fear leads to shortage of garlic in China

Garlic prices have increased fifteen fold in China in under a year because Chinese investors are said to be attempting to create an artificial shortage and drive up prices.

....

He said that the wholesale cost of garlic in cities like Beijing had increased by a factor of fifteen since March, while some remote areas had seen prices rise up to 40-fold.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 27 Nov 2009 07:33

Chiron wrote: How good OR bad is this for Bhaarat? Surely, cheeni people must be taking some measures to avoid this projected crash OR decrease its malevolence and intensity. What measures should Cheeni people take to avoid this kaboom?

If they take those measures, how will it affect India?
If they do not take those measures, how will it affect India?

Assuming, India grows at 7-8% per annum in next decade.

Khyron, beware of Beijing's ability to stoke up ultra-nationalism at home to divert the future suffering masses from their upcoming pain.

Beijing's mandarins could easily time a border war to coincide with any mass unrest.

Given India's lagging and even counter-cyclical response times, our growth should be fairly healthy in the upcoming years. We have to stay focused on the Naxalite threat, which has now evolved into the #1 threat facing the country. China and Pak will see to it that our internal situation is kept on the boil.

Prasanth · Post by **Prasanth** » 28 Nov 2009 15:35

vina wrote:Well. The Cheenis are going to get their comeuppance. The question is when.

As we always knew , Dubai was clearly an unsustainable bubble financed by massive borrowing. Let us see , now that soverign backed companies have defaulted, what real value does "soverign" guarantee of Dubai is worth.

Funny, it might end up being the first country in GCC to introduce income taxes.. Or rather, the debtors theoretically can do so now.

The Cheena disneyesque asset bubble, esp in real estate etc is multiple times Dubai's.. The thing is Cheena , just like Dubai has "free" land and literally "slave labor" , just like Dubai toiling away, but fundamentally it's banks are shot, they have invested in massive industrial white elephants and built excess capacity in a whole lot of sectors which can never be used at anywhere near the break even point economically. Inevitably, it will collapse.

Cheena can definitely sustain it longer than Dubai can , but when it falls, the pressure would have built up longer and to a greater intensity and will go off in a massive Kaboom!

Vina-ji,

I too had been wishing China will blow up, crash or collapse, but the thing is if a country that had put in so much effort to grow and be a respected power, collapse, how does it compare to us? We basically did nothing! I am still looking at how we handle the CWG games.

Another thing, ever wonder where those 'slave' laborers in Dubai come from? Do you know how much remittance these 'slave' laborers contribute to Indian forex reserves, to import things when our foreign trade is in deficit?

Cheap labors are not slave labors, show some respect to your own compatriots.

Again, I do not have to explain again what is money. It's a tool my friend and the slave labor in China is equivalent to our beloved 'middle class'.

Stan_Savljevic · Post by **Stan_Savljevic** » 28 Nov 2009 15:56

Prasanth wrote: I am still looking at how we handle the CWG games.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=267911

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 29 Nov 2009 11:22

Time reports on

How Chinese Do Business Abroad

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 30 Nov 2009 03:04

I have been waiting for the Chinese display of their civilistional values in Africa. Vet little of this report has been previously published in the mainstream press, including the Guardian or Telegraph. Very odd.

KrishnaMu · Post by **KrishnaMu** » 01 Dec 2009 02:44

Sanjay M wrote:Time reports on

How Chinese Do Business Abroad

I am bit critical of that report, because china exploiting where imperialistic Europeans left. Europeans are not sane civilisation. But there is very little mention of that in history books. Given the dire corruption and civil wars it Africa's fault not china's. I never belived Africa is poor continent it is poorly managed. SFO (Serious Fraud Office) looking at BAE deal in Tanzina Radar deal, even though Tanzanian air force cant use that. Apparently BAE (British/European tax payer owned) company successfully managed to sell it. I wonder why?

Europe still has biggest arms exporter in the world, most of them are public funded companies. Despite having EU as big single Christian political entity why Europe still needs more arms, its beggars belief it for domestic consumption. I doubt for national security. It is only to export markets. Now suddenly when east is raising it is critical of china.

Yes there is no democracy in China, yes it is biggest abuser of human rights, yes it is occupied territories including Tibet, Support rogue regimes Sudan, north Korea and Burma.

Talking spade to spade?

US is giving 5bn military military AID to Pakistan, despite 12 of hijackers from Saudi, there is Bush loves Saudi royal family.
SAAB sold military application air crafts to Pakistani Military dictator.

Wake up smell the coffee. Capitalistic western countries needs cheap iPods' from Communist China. I am sorry as long as we need cheap goods, China will do what ever it wants. Its bitter pill to swalow.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 07 Dec 2009 15:03

No Winners if Yuan Rises, Says China Think-Tank

The Ministry of Commerce institute said yuan appreciation would sap China's economic recovery by dampening foreign investment, cutting into business profits and job growth, and threatening to increase financial deficits and bad bank loans.

wrdos · Post by **wrdos** » 10 Dec 2009 10:42

Recession Elsewhere, but It’s Booming in China

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/busin ... l?ref=asia

GUANGZHOU, China — For the first time, Chinese will buy more cars this year than Americans. Demand is so high that drivers put their names on long waiting lists for the most popular models.

wrdos · Post by **wrdos** » 10 Dec 2009 14:09

pandyan wrote:^^^ This is awesome news! But, a noted pakistan school of economics professor from Harvard was making a point that Petrol/Diesel consumption has stayed flat or dropped and not in proportion with the car sales. What is your thought on that. I am pretty sure the professor was jealous of progress made by china.

NY times happened to have another article published to answer your question.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/busin ... iracy.html

A Land Where Car Sales Leap, but Gasoline Sales Stay Flat

Article Tools Sponsored By
By KEITH BRADSHER
Published: December 9, 2009

GUANGZHOU, China — Auto sales are so strong in China that an unusual conspiracy theory has circulated on Western stock markets this month: the Chinese government must be secretly buying hundreds of thousands of cars and parking them somewhere.

The main evidence presented for the theory is that the number of gallons of gasoline consumed in China has been flat this year. But auto executives and Chinese buyers deny the rumor, which has spread so widely that economists have begun producing reports on why it is implausible.

Kevin Wale, the president of General Motors China, said that automakers knew who was buying their cars and saw no evidence of a car-buying conspiracy. Sharp improvements in fuel economy — partly because of government mandates and partly because of a shift to smaller cars — help explain the slow growth in gasoline sales, he said.

A series of recent increases in regulated fuel prices may have also discouraged some driving, he added.

In interviews over the last three weeks in Kunming in southwestern China, in Nantong in east-central China and here in Guangzhou in southeastern China, residents complained of cars being sold out at dealerships because many people wanted to buy as incomes rose, loans became available and extensive new highways opened.

Li Qi, a 45-year-old lumber dealer who already owns a 40-inch flat-panel television and a BMW 325i sedan, sat at a table near the end of the long row of dealerships in Guangzhou on a recent afternoon and disconsolately peeled an egg that had been hard-boiled in tea. He complained of missing his chance to buy a Land Rover S.U.V. when he saw several in a dealership last month.

“I wanted to think about it, and now they are gone,” he said, adding that he had just put his name on a monthlong waiting list.

Nissan has a waiting list of two to three months in China for its Teana midsize car, which is similar in size to the Altima sold in the United States, but it is costlier and comes with more standard equipment in China, like computer navigation aids.

Nissan produces the car in China for the Chinese market. The company cannot import the Teana manufactured at its factory in Japan because the technical specifications are slightly different for the Japanese market and because China still has steep tariffs on imported cars, said Kimiyasu Nakamura, the chief executive and president of the Dongfeng Motor Company, a Nissan joint venture in China.

But rising auto sales do not translate directly into rising gasoline consumption.

Stephen Green, an economist in the Shanghai office of Standard Chartered, calculated that the number of registered cars in China would rise 24 percent this year, a little more than half the growth rate in sales. Older, less fuel-efficient cars are being retired and replaced with fuel-sipping models, he said in a report on Nov. 16.

Light industry accounts for 40 percent of gasoline consumption in China and has slowed because of global economic difficulties, while commercial light trucks are also big users of gasoline and are probably being driven fewer miles because of weaker demands for freight movements, he wrote.

J.D. Power & Associates expects the United States to regain the annual lead in number of cars and light trucks from 2012 through 2014 as the American economy recovers from the downturn. J.D. Power also predicts that China will move ahead for keeps in 2015 because it has four times as many people as the United States.

gaurav · Post by **gaurav** » 12 Dec 2009 08:46

prad wrote:^^^ come on ppl, our good comrades are just doing their best to spread economic progress, that's all. no need to deprave them of their god given right to make cars like he** and then store them in huge ghost towns filled with massive parking complexes. all for the sake economic progress...nothing more.

Well, at least they are building something. I rather use the pieces of dollars to build something than keep it there. Interestingly, those buildings were all fully sold, bought by speculators. It's a matter of time before the bubble explodes and the prices corrects, then you will get occupants. The same is happening here, in the US.

Do you also realise the buildings in Old Ordos, as in the city in the empty town report was looking rather nice. I have no idea why they would need to move away. The Old Ordos can beat Delhi anything in terms of neatness and cleanliness.

Prad,

If you have been to China, you would really be shocked by the amount of cars in the street. Many years back when they began their road building frenzy, we were saying the same thing about their empty roads. Now, they are selling more cars than the US annualy. The demand was so great their exports went lower than India's. I suspect when the overcapacity reins in, they will start to flood the market and our Hyundai/Suzuki mini car exports will be greatly affected. I read some where that Hyundai has a 900'000 car production capacity in a plant in China. Prepare for the coming political pressure on these MNCs to export their Chinese capacities.

user banned for using free email.
we are pretty certain who it is trying to subvert his ban in order to sing "china is gleat" on BR but your paeans will have to wait forthe ban period to end.
if you try this stunt again we might just ban you permanently.
Rahul.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 14 Dec 2009 10:57

London to 'lose out' to Shanghai

The survey, carried out by law firm Eversheds, suggests business leaders think the West is facing accelerated competition from the East.
More than 90% of bosses in Shanghai and Mumbai are confident in their economic outlook for 2010.
This compares with 22% of business leaders in London and 35% in New York.
Across the United Arab Emirates, 69% said they were confident of their economic prospects over the coming year.
In Evershed's Boom or Gloom report, New York will still be seen as the most significant financial centre with London and Shanghai vying for second place.
A total of 600 senior executives across London, Mumbai, New York, Shanghai and the UAE were canvassed for the survey.
Commenting on the findings, Alan Jenkins, chairman of Eversheds thinks companies across the world are reacting to and recovering from the global financial crisis at varying rates.
"More established economic centres are still digesting the extent of the crisis. Confidence levels in the East are in stark contrast to the traditional economic powerhouses," he said.

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 14 Dec 2009 19:19

Chinese dried dog food industry. Not food for the dogs, the dogs are the food.

Posted without comment.

Not for the queasy. You have been warned, so don't click the links if you can't handle it.

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/1503 ... meat01.jpg

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7268 ... eat02p.jpg

http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/8811 ... meat03.jpg

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2254 ... meat04.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5043/c ... meat05.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6633 ... meat06.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2580 ... meat07.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6711 ... meat08.jpg

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/637/ ... meat09.jpg

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4456 ... meat10.jpg

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 14 Dec 2009 21:04

^^^

I guess it is time for a new university confusionist-communist-propagandu-university (CCP Univ) to educate the world about Chinese savageness in its true colors, in the lines of LMU.

One needs to know the greatness of middle-kingdom.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 14 Dec 2009 23:57

Purush wrote:Chinese dried dog food industry. Not food for the dogs, the dogs are the food.
Posted without comment.

Not for the queasy. You have been warned, so don't click the links if you can't handle it.

Umm, I will be the last one to defend the Chinese, but what is wrong with eating dogs? Isnt the revulsion because we have been mentally conditioned to accept dog as a pet? So, in short it is more of a you shouldnt eat familiar things that you love rather than anything like say eating monkeys (which is closer to cannibalism) isnt it?

None of us have qualms about munching a venison burger or a pork sausage, but cant think of eating Bambi or Babe... its all about conditioning me thinks.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 15 Dec 2009 00:41

^^^

True indeed! Don't know where Ahimsa starts

I guess I am wrong in disapproving others.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Dec 2009 01:44

I hope:
every dog doesn't meat its PRC citizen.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 15 Dec 2009 03:30

Tanaji wrote: Umm, I will be the last one to defend the Chinese, but what is wrong with eating dogs? Isnt the revulsion because we have been mentally conditioned to accept dog as a pet? So, in short it is more of a you shouldnt eat familiar things that you love rather than anything like say eating monkeys (which is closer to cannibalism) isnt it?

None of us have qualms about munching a venison burger or a pork sausage, but cant think of eating Bambi or Babe... its all about conditioning me thinks.

Have to agree here. And that is why I find the outrage when a dog or cat is mistreated in massaland as irony of the highest order. For a country which eats highest amount of beef per capita, and has no qualms about eating cows, calves, turkey, hens, horse, alligator, duck etc, the outrage about dogs and cats does sound hypocritical.

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 15 Dec 2009 12:47

Well then, let equalequalitis strike everywhere....paki = indian by extrapolation, hain ji?

Anyway, I don't eat cat, dog, pig, goat, cow, deer etc, so I find the above images extremely gruesome.
I eat only chicken and fish, and even that I have cut down to a bare minimum these days when there is no veggie option available.
Inshallah, I shall wind down all non-veg intake except eggs by the next 2 months.

Carry this over to the Nukkad, Food or Whine dhaagas, otherwise we may feel the wrath of the bradmins

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 16 Dec 2009 01:15

What's going on here, mods sleeping

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 16 Dec 2009 06:09

India to Levy Duty on Chinese Telecoms

India will levy antidumping duties of as high as more than three times the value on some telecommunication equipment imported from China, according to the governments in both countries.

How terrible! The injustice of it defies belief. No doubt its only Cheena's admirable and consistent magnanimity, generosity and desire for harmonious neighborly relations that is preventing a full-scale nuke invasion from across the Himalaya to redress genuine trade grievances...../sarc off.