India-US News and Discussion

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 09 Dec 2009 05:38

Brazilians/Argentinians took land from natives too. I haven't heard anyone calling them colonists.
The portugese were colonists, not Brazilians.
Same with Canadians. They took more land than Americans so are bigger colonists!
European settlers in US were colonists.(Old habits die hard)
American identity is all about making money and pursuit of happiness. European identity still thinks in White Man's burden terms.

S.Gautam wrote:Karna_A, I believe they're talking about the colonization of the American mainland itself - the westward push that basically consisted of taking land from Native Americans, forcing them into "reservations", and occasionally going to war with them or committing massacres.

About the superiority complex, it all depends on your interpretation, but American Exceptionalism or Manifest Destiny could be deemed a superiority complex.

S.Gautam · Post by **S.Gautam** » 09 Dec 2009 05:59

Brazil became independent from Portugal with pretty much its present borders. The U.S. was a fraction of what is today in 1776. They did almost all of their expansion on their own after independence from GB taking land from natives. The choice to force out natives was made by people elected to Washington DC by the populace. That's where the differences comes in.

All about "money and pursuit of happiness" seems like a very whitewashed view of America (almost propagandistic, no offense...). Reality is quite a bit more stark.

But anyway, it's pointless to blame people for what their ancestors did, so it's all water under the bridge. I agree that their country was built on colonization (and not just the initial colonization by GB), but it is not relevant to today. This is like the "caste card" that foreigners use on us. It's an inconvenient (and still persistent) part of our history and it's easy points for them to score. But what it does matter to today's people who are moving past caste faster than ever before? I don't see Americans doing anything harmful to (what's left of) the natives today. I don't think anyone is going to hate them for what happened in the past like paramu suggests.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Dec 2009 06:40

American colonialism was interesting in that there is barely anything left of the original inhabitants. Oh! there are reservations and a million odd with native blood but they pretty much finished off the original inhabitants.
Also, do not forget that the civil rights movement was a recent phenomena in America.
The core of American Oligarchy is quite aligned with the European Oligarchy and some say one and the same. The continue with their colonial aspirations under other guises.
Read American history pls

The key issue is the nature of colonialism and influence in other parts of the world - check Africa and the war for resources there, South America and Asia of course

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 09 Dec 2009 06:58

Above posters have explained how America is a colonizer's country.

The b!tch called "Karma" will come back to haunt western civilization for all that they did. Currently they control the world discourses and people have not really seen the skeletons in their closets. As long as people see only the pretty curtains that cover the closets and most are not allowed to see what is behind them, people will be happy to be with west. But I don't think this will last long. Once people see the extend of damage done to them and west has no power to control the discussions, the tide will turn completely against the west. I think that change would be pretty rapid too.

Manny, I would add most of African, Aboriginal Australian, South East Asian and Native American people to the list of good civilizations. Of course, when Chinese return to their roots, they become good too.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Dec 2009 09:09

De-tensioning of Kashmir border critical to stability: Mullen

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/article62217.ece

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 09 Dec 2009 09:16

^^^^ This is when I wish I had an image that would show the middle finger. Bhaad mein jaon

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 09 Dec 2009 09:20

Jarita wrote:The core of American Oligarchy is quite aligned with the European Oligarchy and some say one and the same. The continue with their colonial aspirations under other guises.
Read American history pls

If that were the case, during Suez crisis, America would have supported UK/France which did not happen.
While under UK colonialism, 6 million Bengalis died of famine in 1940s, America saved similar number through PL-480 in 1950s/60s.
The contrast is just too great to be ignored.
The hallmark of a colonist is that a colonized country is way worse off when it becomes independent than when it was made a colony. India is a prime example. From having 25% of world GDP to less than 1% in 1947.
However, Japan as well as West Germany were virtual US colonies and look at the result.
America/Canada/Australia/New Zealand/N and S Americas are not part of Western civilization although initially they came out of it.
The relationship can be thought of as Sikhism and Hinduism. Although Sikhism initially came out of Hindusim, its now a distinct religion and few quirks in Hinduism(Sati etc.) cannot be blamed on Sikhs!

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Dec 2009 09:21

Jarita wrote:^^^^ This is when I wish I had an image that would show the middle finger. Bhaad mein jaon

The question is are we withdrawing troops due to US pressure, or is it our independent decision?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Dec 2009 09:28

Karna_A wrote: While under UK colonialism, 6 million Bengalis died of famine in 1940s, America saved similar number through PL-480 in 1950s/60s. The contrast is just too great to be ignored.

What about American policy regarding East Pakistan in 1970-71?

Moreover, people in East Asia would tell you that IMF's policies during the 1997 economic crisis were disastrous. Even IMF had to accept blame. (IMF is under virtual control of US Treasury.)

What about US policy during Iran-Iraq war?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 09 Dec 2009 09:42

Mullen is a graduate of Annapolis class of 1968 and McChrystal is a graduate of Westpoint class of 1976. The initial indoctrination of strategic training is one that is based on cold war ideology, so neither will be too friendly with India. The only thing that can change that is if they trained in joint exercises or operations with India. We're still 10-15 years away from Pentagon officials who may understand India to some degree.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 09 Dec 2009 10:14

abhishek_sharma wrote:What about US policy during Iran-Iraq war?

People forget the obvious. What about the present day Iraq?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Dec 2009 11:04

Mullen says raised Balochistan issue with India

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=93118

WASHINGTON: Chairman of the US Joints Chief of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen said he has raised the issue of interference into Balochistan with the Indian leadership, Geo News reported Wednesday.

Talking to Geo News correspondent Sami Ibrahim, the US Army Chief said he held talks over the reservations of Pakistan with his Indian counterparts both former and the present one Gen Deepak in addition to the Indian political leadership.

sum · Post by **sum** » 09 Dec 2009 12:30

Im sure the B question was asked by Mullen in Dilli and another extra cup of chai ( with few biskoots thrown in) was provided to Mullen for his effort. Everyone walked away thereafter feeling happy and satisfied.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Dec 2009 08:14

abhishek_sharma wrote:Mullen says raised Balochistan issue with India

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=93118

WASHINGTON: Chairman of the US Joints Chief of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen said he has raised the issue of interference into Balochistan with the Indian leadership, Geo News reported Wednesday.

Talking to Geo News correspondent Sami Ibrahim, the US Army Chief said he held talks over the reservations of Pakistan with his Indian counterparts both former and the present one Gen Deepak in addition to the Indian political leadership.

When our own Government foolishly bolsters Pakistani arguments of Indian involvement in Balochistan, as was the case of the Sharam El Sheikh joint declaration conjured up by our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh, it is inevitable that India will be lectured on the topics by others as well.

Meanwhile one hopes that India will ensure that the stated US acknowledgement of “the importance of Kashmir issue and said resolution of this longstanding dispute between India and Pakistan would have a positive impact on the overall regional stability” remains strictly in the realm of rhetoric.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Dec 2009 20:31

As long as ALL issues are on the table it is fine.

Neither Pakistan nor the US should only talk to India about what they think are their problems.

India concerns should revolve around two major issue:
1) ISI should come under civilian control, and,
2) ALL - without ANY exceptions - terrorist groups. The US has provided the name of five groups that they do not want to see in Pakistan. That should not be acceptable to India (or for that matter anyone).

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 10 Dec 2009 20:47

arun wrote:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp?id=93118

When our own Government foolishly bolsters Pakistani arguments of Indian involvement in Balochistan, as was the case of the Sharam El Sheikh joint declaration conjured up by our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh, it is inevitable that India will be lectured on the topics by others as well.

Did India raise the issue of Pakistan involvement in Kashmir and inside India and terrorism

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Dec 2009 21:36

there is nothing wrong in funding and aiding NGOs for baluchis.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 10 Dec 2009 23:15

Though this rightly belong in humor thread, just to lighten up: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-d ... ry-plotter

Ensoy maadi.

negi · Post by **negi** » 11 Dec 2009 09:23

Fwiw

Obama says nations have to fight just wars

4 hajaar words of BS ; boy this guy is EB no. 1 .

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 11 Dec 2009 09:37

Negi,

Be careful about posts that don't deal with India directly. Criticizing the BHO administration or the US Democratic party will bring the wrath of BRF admins and others will attack you with specious arguments. There is nothing to gain.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 11 Dec 2009 09:41

This doesn't sound good for those of us who travel frequently and on short notice to visit and take care of elderly parents and relatives.
Headley effect: India to alter visa rules for US tourists

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 11 Dec 2009 09:47

do we have a thread on Latin America

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 11 Dec 2009 10:02

I think Headley's frequent visits to India followed by Mumbai attack is what brought him under the radar. Probably data mining played an important role in catching him. Just a wild guess.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2009 10:23

No need to mine.

The problem is between agencies.

BTW, NYPD has deployments outside the US!!!!!

Jihadis. What a waste of energies.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 11 Dec 2009 10:33

Karan Dixit wrote:I think Headley's frequent visits to India followed by Mumbai attack is what brought him under the radar. Probably data mining played an important role in catching him. Just a wild guess.

Karan,

As it is for the last couple of months, the Indian Consulates, for those Americans born outside of the US, will have their Visas approved in India and then have their paperwork sent back to the US. That would eliminate much of it as the place of birth is stated on their US Passport.

James B · Post by **James B** » 11 Dec 2009 17:31

Karan Dixit wrote:I think Headley's frequent visits to India followed by Mumbai attack is what brought him under the radar. Probably data mining played an important role in catching him. Just a wild guess.

No, it was his response at the airport back home that created suspicion. There was a report on this in the last page. He was asked what he was doing in India/Denmark, he gave a reply that he works for First world immigration and went on that purpose, but when his suitcase was checked they found no documents pertaining to First world immigration. That set off red lights and he was detained.

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 11 Dec 2009 19:50

Mort Walker wrote:This doesn't sound good for those of us who travel frequently and on short notice to visit and take care of elderly parents and relatives.
Headley effect: India to alter visa rules for US tourists

that is a bad way to go abt this, this can be easly broken/abused, if there are two guys doing the same job then GOI would be clueless.
instead a guys entering India ona turist visa multiple time can be questioned separately.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Dec 2009 20:13

Not an Indo-US news item, however, since we are on visas, etc, FT is reporting that Pakistan is going to be more strict about Muslims of non-Paki origin with US passports applying for Paki visas.

There goes their vision of the Caliphate.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Dec 2009 20:25

Jarita wrote:do we have a thread on Latin America

I think we did but I can't find it now.
so please start one if you have some thing to add.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 11 Dec 2009 20:37

Mort Walker wrote:This doesn't sound good for those of us who travel frequently and on short notice to visit and take care of elderly parents and relatives.
Headley effect: India to alter visa rules for US tourists

OCI should be a good workaround for that.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2009 21:18

does india have a separate business visa category ? I know some people in my wife's co who come every month to design some process or setup machinery. there must be many such frequent travellers on the tot, tech support, mkting side.

and what prevents pakis with UK, danish, belgian or australian passports ?

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 11 Dec 2009 21:56

Was Headley born in Pakistan or in US?

Ananya · Post by **Ananya** » 12 Dec 2009 00:07

does not matter. genes speak for themselves, they are gennetically corrupt.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 12 Dec 2009 00:16

Karan Dixit wrote:Was Headley born in Pakistan or in US?

As per Wiki

...
Gilani was born in Washington, D. C., where his father, Sayed Salim Gilani, worked for the Voice of America, and his mother, Serrill Headley, was a secretary. When their marriage broke up, Sayed Gilani went back to Pakistan, taking Daood and his sister with him. There Daood attended the Cadet College Hasan Abdal, a preparatory boys' high school for the military. In 1977 his mother traveled to Pakistan and brought him to live with her in the United States, where he grew up. Serril Headley owned Khyber Pass, a pub in Philadelphia, and died in 2008....

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 12 Dec 2009 00:30

well this Headley @$@#$$ has created a headache

Returned from India with SHQ

SHQ is on 10 yr multiple entry visa.

I cleared the counter and was waiting for wife

The immigration guys were in a tizzy (stamp blah blah words heard)
then the guy tells my wife to wait and he gets up to leave.

He said new regulation and he needed to check which stamp to apply.

The stamp they applied was that you cannot return to India within 2 months unless you get permission from Indian mission.

I asked but what happens in emergency - the whole idea of doing 10 yr visa was to avoid the headache of sending passport etc . Also not clear HOW this permission is obtained??

He thought one could come back for an emergency BUT needed to register within 14 days. (of course this is in town - why the eff cannot they have a cell in the airport and get it over with)

Singha

I do not belive the 10 yr multiple visa is given to non US folks

anyway not sure how well thought through is this strategy but for the time being thats the best they have come up with

Nandu

Does not apply to OCI folks.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 12 Dec 2009 00:53

I believe the Indian Visa form requires that you state the place where you father was born. There is no verification and really such questions, IMHO, only harm the honest people.

Surya,

Just out of curiosity, why did you clear the counter without SHQ? When traveling anywhere and approaching immigration counters, we're always together, me+SHQ+kids. The question is not to offend you, but it could raise a flag with immigration authorities and thereby have delayed your SHQ.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 12 Dec 2009 01:48

mort

no the delay was because the rule was so new - none knew what to do till the supervisor told them

my wife just happened to be the first one in that category -

why I went ahead

simple - wife has her original name - and half the time we are questioned (annoying as heck) and the they process it one at a time. (note each one has to fill the form - so there is no advantage as each form is checked and matched)
so in this case I step first - walk through and then wait.

In other countries like US - we go through together.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 Dec 2009 08:39

New Cases Test Optimism on U.S. Muslims’ Terrorism Risk

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/12/us/12assess.html

American Muslims, the reasoning went, were well assimilated in diverse communities with room for advancement. They showed little of the alienation often on display among their European counterparts, let alone attraction to extremist violence.

But with a rash of recent cases in which Americans have been accused of being drawn into terrorist scheming, the rampage at Fort Hood, Tex., last month and now the alarming account of five young Virginia men who went to Pakistan and are suspected of seeking jihad, the notion that the United States has some immunity against homegrown terrorists is coming under new scrutiny.

Bruce Hoffman, who studies terrorism at Georgetown University, said the recent cases only confirmed that it was “myopic” to believe “we could insulate ourselves from the currents affecting young Muslims everywhere else.” Like many other specialists, Mr. Hoffman pointed to the United States’ combat in Muslim lands as the only obvious spur to many of the recent cases, especially those with a Pakistani connection.

“The longer we’ve been in Iraq and Afghanistan, the more some susceptible young men are coming to believe that it’s their duty to take up arms to defend their fellow Muslims,” Mr. Hoffman said.

A few analysts, in fact, argue that Mr. Obama’s decision to send more troops to Afghanistan — intended to prevent a terrorist haven there — could backfire.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Dec 2009 19:19

http://beta.thehindu.com/sci-tech/agric ... e63959.ece
USITC said despite the size of the Indian market, inefficiencies in its marketing and distribution system due to high government interventions, poor quality and inadequate infrastructure, make it less attractive for US farm producers.

The gap between high bound rates and lower applied rates allows India to vary its tariff rates frequently and substantially on some commodities, which creates uncertainty for US agricultural exporters

I am only concerned about the underlined aspect.. rest all is reasonable complain.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Dec 2009 20:10

SaiK wrote: http://beta.thehindu.com/sci-tech/agric ... e63959.ece
USITC said despite the size of the Indian market, inefficiencies in its marketing and distribution system due to high government interventions, poor quality and inadequate infrastructure, make it less attractive for US farm producers.

The gap between high bound rates and lower applied rates allows India to vary its tariff rates frequently and substantially on some commodities, which creates uncertainty for US agricultural exporters

This is good. These are on tariff barriers which protects million of poor rural Indians
Most of the US business development is based on fixed parameter including fixed costs and margins for distributors.