Indian Naval Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Dec 2009 20:54

seeking to grapple with the enemy is not the way to fight a war.

we need enough sub assets to slip past PLAN patrols in south china and yellow sea and
inflict significant damage on merchant ships and power stations on land. a mix of AIP and
SSN will have to do because we cannot afford a all-SSN fleet.

for the PLAN subs, we need Type28 type corvettes, OPVs, lots of MPA and ASW helis,
SOSUS arrays , new towed sonars, ASW heli carriers.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 23 Dec 2009 20:59

IN should better consolidate its sub assests by having more SSN`s.

It is confirmed that IN is planning to have a minimum SSN force of 10+,but it needs more than that number.Its better to go with mass production of the next SSN design.And an upgradation of reactor core to better refuel time as well.....

maz · Post by **maz** » 24 Dec 2009 02:12

album from OpDemo 2009 is complete. Please visit the album at

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Gall ... Demo+2009/

johnny_m · Post by **johnny_m** » 24 Dec 2009 02:17

Kailash wrote:
johnny_m wrote:US NAVY Mandate? They have operated Single engined fighters/Attack aircrafts before and F 35 C is going to be their future AC.
Prior to F-35, their policy leans towards a twin engine design only. There were lot of planes post WW-II which were single engined and operated from carriers. But since the 1960-70 (F-4, F-14, F-18), all conventional take off fixed wing designs have carried two engines. I am not sure about the why - may be if one engine fails in flight they can still land using their FBW and controls.

The harriers, F-35 etc and other vertical take off designs are exceptions.

Again not true and half truths

Ever Heard of F 8 Crusaders and A7 Corsairs ?

F 35B is the only vertical take off version and its going to be operated by USMC and not USN. USN is going to use F 35 C CTOL fighters.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 24 Dec 2009 02:37

johnny_m wrote: ....F 35B is the only vertical take off version and its going to be operated by USMC and not USN....

There is no vertical take off version of F-35. F-35B for US Marines and Royal Navy is STOVL ie; short take off and vertical "landing".

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Dec 2009 09:27

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 24 Dec 2009 09:38

EDIT.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Dec 2009 09:41

guys, please take any further F-35 news to the appropriate thread. this is going OT.
thanks.

K_Rohit · Post by **K_Rohit** » 24 Dec 2009 12:34

Is this the first published pic of a upgraded SHAR with derby+python? If not, any link on where I can find these pics?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 371975.cms

Also, can somebody ID the other weapons on the starboard wing?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Dec 2009 15:26

K_Rohit wrote:Is this the first published pic of a upgraded SHAR with derby+python? If not, any link on where I can find these pics?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 371975.cms

Also, can somebody ID the other weapons on the starboard wing?

am I missing something ? I don't see a pic ?

K_Rohit · Post by **K_Rohit** » 24 Dec 2009 15:30

Rahul M wrote:
K_Rohit wrote:Is this the first published pic of a upgraded SHAR with derby+python? If not, any link on where I can find these pics?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 371975.cms

Also, can somebody ID the other weapons on the starboard wing?
am I missing something ? I don't see a pic ?

[img]

Looks like the url is not loading. You can link it in the story in the e-paper version. Its on page 13 in the Delhi edition.

I have no idea about how to paste the image here. So help would be appreciated!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Dec 2009 15:34

screen grab --> cut-paste in MS paint/GIMP --> convert to JPEG --> imageshack --> hotlink/thumbnail for foums.

K_Rohit · Post by **K_Rohit** » 24 Dec 2009 15:38

Rahul M wrote:screen grab --> cut-paste in MS paint/GIMP --> convert to JPEG --> imageshack --> hotlink/thumbnail for foums.

Need to ID the weapon fit-out...Derby+python+??

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 24 Dec 2009 16:56

On national security interests, Govt moves Hindustan Shipyard to Defence ministry

"The government has approved transfer of Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL), Visakhapatnam, to Ministry of Defence for meeting the national security requirements of building strategic vessels for Indian Navy," Information and Broadcasting Minister Ambika Soni said.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 24 Dec 2009 17:27

Looks like the derby, too small a pic to get a good ID on the smaller missile though. Must be the Magic. Interesting to see multiple ejector racks. Good catch Rohit.

CM.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Dec 2009 23:50

rohit, thanks. it does look like derby and magic to my old tired eyes.

arya · Post by **arya** » 25 Dec 2009 00:11

saurav.jha wrote:these indigenous class will be diesel ...i guess??? what about the nuke ones..???

check the article's title:

Navy for second line of submarines construction

gogna · Post by **gogna** » 25 Dec 2009 00:18

Punjabi to the rescue again

better resolution to identify
http://www.ajitjalandhar.com/20091224/

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 25 Dec 2009 00:35

It's pretty obvious that the missile next to fuel tanks is Derby. But, it's difficult to figure out the others exactly.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Dec 2009 02:57

Cain Marko wrote:Looks like the derby, too small a pic to get a good ID on the smaller missile though. Must be the Magic. Interesting to see multiple ejector racks. Good catch Rohit.

CM.

exactly what I was about to say CM ! I remember having had a very agitated discussion with a senior BRF member when I suggested that the Tejas could carry dual-racks for the missiles. at that time several arguments were given about how it was not possible for this or that reason..now that we've seen it on the IN's SHar, I'm quite sure that this is something that we might see on the Tejas as well in a multi-role configuration- inner pylons with drop tanks, middle pylons with the dual racks and outermost with the close-combat missiles.

My only gripe with the picture is that its not too clear..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Dec 2009 02:59

I was a part of that discussion too !

in fact this pic immediately reminded me of it.

most interesting is the asymmetric load-out on the dual rails.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Dec 2009 03:38

Sea Harrier has 4 hard points under each wing and even the second pylon from outside is strong enough to haul a fuel tank so derby and Majic combo on any of the inner 3 pylons should not be an issue.

--yikes FRS Mk51 which IN operates has only 2 hard points per wing.

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 25 Dec 2009 13:01

Hi Guys...Here is the bigger pic.....

The missile next to the fuel tanks is definitely Derby.
The missile next to Derby looks like Python.

Thanks

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 25 Dec 2009 14:01

Navy gets Shipyard to Build New Subs

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 25 Dec 2009 15:36

Livefist: MiG-29 KUB aerial refuelling pics

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 25 Dec 2009 15:57

Dmurphy wrote:Livefist: MiG-29 KUB aerial refuelling pics

Why is the aircraft looking so old and wared. Aren't we getting the new ones?

srai · Post by **srai** » 25 Dec 2009 16:07

KrishG wrote:Navy for second line of submarines construction

As per Indian Navy Staff Qualitative Requirements plan approved a decade ago, 24 submarines were to be constructed in series. The project-75 envisaged six of these to be constructed in the first phase (2000-2012) and the balance in the second phase (2013-2030).

Now, the Navy wants the government to identify the shipyards so that the second batch of 6 under project-75 India is undertaken and the rest 12 being wholly indigenous.
12 Indigenous class + 6 Project-75A class + 6 Project-75 (scorpene)

Given the P75 & P75A will enter service between 2015-2025, the follow-on 12 indigenous subs will come online only post 2025 and will likely be nuclear powered SSNs. Over the next decade (2010-2025), IN will have built up an expertise in building and operating nuclear submarines through leasing of 2 Russian Akula-II SSNs and building of 5 ATV (SSBNs). Together with the know-hows obtained from P-75, P-75A, Akula-II, and ATV, IN will be ready for designing and building the 12 indigenous SSNs (post 2025 service entry date).

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 25 Dec 2009 16:14

Venu wrote:Why is the aircraft looking so old and wared. Aren't we getting the new ones?

Naah, i don't think so. Its probably the same aircraft as in this pic taken in Russia earlier this year.

I'll blame it on the shadows and bad picture quality.

Add later: Check it out. This one looks even better. Though its a Mig 29K.

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 25 Dec 2009 16:42

Dmurphy wrote: Add later: Check it out. This one looks even better. Though its a Mig 29K.

Yeah..Great looking beast. Me very typical Indian only. Won't consider anything new, unless it comes packed in polythene

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 25 Dec 2009 16:42

sunny y wrote:Hi Guys...Here is the bigger pic.....

The missile next to the fuel tanks is definitely Derby.
The missile next to Derby looks like Python.

Thanks

Sunny dont think its the python it will most probably be the magic reason being that the python 5 and derby indeed share the same rakit motor and the principal difference between them is being active radar vs infrared imaging thus I would imagine the python would have a slightly shorter length given the blunt infra red bulge for the python as compared the sharp cone of the active radar derby...however the missiles distinctly appear to be of different sizes....

One thing to note is the Derby looks quite big actually will be very interesting to see operational ranges...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Dec 2009 19:50

negi wrote:Sea Harrier has 4 hard points under each wing and even the second pylon from outside is strong enough to haul a fuel tank so derby and Majic combo on any of the inner 3 pylons should not be an issue.

--yikes FRS Mk51 which IN operates has only 2 hard points per wing.

no sir, SHAR has 4 hard-points in all. 2 each under the wings.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Dec 2009 20:17

Venu wrote:
Dmurphy wrote:Livefist: MiG-29 KUB aerial refuelling pics
Why is the aircraft looking so old and wared. Aren't we getting the new ones?

Which part of the aircraft is looking wared?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 25 Dec 2009 21:01

The paint might be peeling off, because of the extremes of temperature that this aircraft is having to go through while testing in Russia.
The temperature is well below freezing there in the winters and it gets reasonably warm during summers. This plane has been testing with this paint scheme for around a year at least.

Otherwise the body and machinery is spanking brand new.

Anoop. A. · Post by **Anoop. A.** » 25 Dec 2009 21:36

I believe it's just dust and dirt on the Mig's, should be able to clean and repaint it if neccesary.

Anoop. A. · Post by **Anoop. A.** » 25 Dec 2009 21:46

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=12108

The President is expected to witness Sukhoi Su-30 and Sea Harrier fighter jets take off from the ship during her three hour stay.??????

The above line is from a news aritcle posted in the Top Stories section of Bharat Rakshak.Com on December 23,2009. I believe it to be a reporting error or a gramatical mistake.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 25 Dec 2009 21:53

Anoop. A. wrote:http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=12108

The President is expected to witness Sukhoi Su-30 and Sea Harrier fighter jets take off from the ship during her three hour stay.??????

The above line is from a news aritcle posted in the Top Stories section of Bharat Rakshak.Com on December 23,2009. I believe it to be a reporting or gramatical error.

Hmm.. It could be a DDM OR AND A BIG OR, a SU-30 might be CAPABLE?? of TAKING OFF from ins Viraat but NOT LANDING...

Anoop. A. · Post by **Anoop. A.** » 25 Dec 2009 22:02

Craig Alpert wrote:
Anoop. A. wrote:http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=12108

The President is expected to witness Sukhoi Su-30 and Sea Harrier fighter jets take off from the ship during her three hour stay.??????

The above line is from a news aritcle posted in the Top Stories section of Bharat Rakshak.Com on December 23,2009. I believe it to be a reporting or gramatical error.
Hmm.. It could be a DDM OR AND A BIG OR, a SU-30 might be CAPABLE?? of TAKING OFF from ins Viraat but NOT LANDING...

Hmm...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Dec 2009 23:16

Craig Alpert wrote: Hmm.. It could be a DDM OR AND A BIG OR, a SU-30 might be CAPABLE?? of TAKING OFF from ins Viraat but NOT LANDING...

how do you suppose it will take-off from the carrier unless it landed there before ?

p.s. kindly quit ALL-CAPS'ing every other word. it amounts to shouting and bad netiquette.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Dec 2009 23:29

The other missile in pic (first one being Derby) is a Matra Magic-II training round (the forward 8 fins are absent on the training round) . The dual rail system is made by DRDO.

ref: ACIG.org

Rahul yep I bungled up (the 4 pylons per wing are only for GR5 and above ) hence the note at the bottom ; btw has anyone come across a IN SHAR carrying a heavy weapon on the outer pylons ? (I suspect dual rail was possible for SHAR's outer pylon could take heavier loads than just a AAM , check the above pic and the list of weapons which the outer pylon can haul).

Anoop. A. · Post by **Anoop. A.** » 25 Dec 2009 23:34

Rahulji,

Going a little off topic, I know Craig was being humourous, but it also made me think about the "Doolittle Raid", where the B-25 Mitchell of U.S. Army Airforces were loaded on USS Hornet for invading Tokyo as a revenge on Pearl harbour.