Indian Railways Thread

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Oct 2009 17:15

manish, any images to show how these things look like ?
TIA.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Oct 2009 20:38

Manish, ACD was a Konkan Railway initiative and there is no wonder you find KR routes being covered. I haven't seen much of it in Southern Railway, for example. As you said, it is just not fitting the ACDs to the locos and the guard wagons, but also at stations, LC gates, along the route etc. It is a massive work. In our country, everything is excruciatingly slow.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 21 Oct 2009 20:42

http://www.konkanrailway.com/website/eh ... kavach.htm

ACD by Konkan Railway

http://www.konkanrailway.com/website/ehtm/FAQ-ACD.pdf

New Delhi, Apr 26 (ANI): In a major development that will open new vistas for the Konkan Railway, the anti-collision device (ACD) developed by it has been granted patent by China, Russia and Singapore.
Konkan Railway had applied for worldwide patents for this technology in the past and has already been granted patent for ACD in India and South Africa.
The Anti-Collision Device, indigenously designed by Konkan Railway, is an intelligent, ’self-acting’ microprocessor-based equipment that successfully prevents collision kind of train accidents in mid-sections, station area and at level crossings, thereby saving the precious lives of train passengers as well as road users.
The device is installed in locomotives of trains, guard vans, stations, and at level crossing gates. Since the device needs no manual input, it enhances safety in train operations.
Konkan Railway has successfully implemented ACD network on North East Frontier Railway and the ACD networked route was declared as commissioned last year. It covers 1,924 Broad Gauge route km, 202 stations and 589 diesel locomotives, requiring total 1508 number of ACD units.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/ind ... 42333.html

manish · Post by **manish** » 21 Oct 2009 21:19

SSridhar wrote:Manish, ACD was a Konkan Railway initiative and there is no wonder you find KR routes being covered. I haven't seen much of it in Southern Railway, for example. As you said, it is just not fitting the ACDs to the locos and the guard wagons, but also at stations, LC gates, along the route etc. It is a massive work. In our country, everything is excruciatingly slow.

Yes sir, I do understand. In fact, I did write the part about ACD being a KRCL invention in my earlier post. Just that I wasn't sure that other parts of the country had been covered. The ACD had been in the news since the early part of the decade itself, so I was wondering if it had been implemented. Turns out that it isn't so.

Rahul M saar, the post by sanjaychoudhryji seems to have good info. I unfortunately did not take any photos of the actual installations, but one could clearly see the 'ACD' written on the devices.

I personally know next to nothing about those things, but, here's a presentation by KRCL with excellent info on the system, including the setup:

Anti-Collision Device (ACD) Network (Raksha KavachTM)

The presentation is dated 2007, and interestingly mentions that a pilot implementation of ACD was done for North East Frontier Railway for a track length of 1760km, covering 202 stations. Commissioning was done in June 2007.

The devices onboard seem to provide some sort of override, engaging automatic braking procedures whenever 2 ACDs within 3km radial distance are deemed to be on a collision course. Pretty impressive considering the general perception of tech levels in IR!
I quote from the presentation (slide 15/27):

• Mobile and stationary components of ACD Network exchange information and take decisions based on train working rules embedded in software to apply brakes automatically without any input from the users
• If 2 ACDs are deemed to be at a risk of collision, the ACD system activates automatic braking operation to prevent collisions
• Loco ACD is designed to interface with various types of braking systems of Locomotives

Shockingly, it reveals that from April 1997 to January 2002, there were 128 collisions

and also mentions that ACDs could have prevented 82% of those.

In relation to the latest tragedy, it mentions that it is specifically designed to guard against 'Rear-end collisions' as well. So it would be interesting to see if the track around NCR had ACD or not, what with the route being one of the busiest.

Very informative.

manish · Post by **manish** » 21 Oct 2009 21:27

From the above link:

ACD Network CAN NOT Prevent a Train Collision
when…
• Other train is a ‘NON’ ACD Train – ACD functions by reacting to another ACD, as such if one of the two trains is a non-ACD train, the protection against collision will be missing
• ‘Adequate’ braking distance at that speed is not available when a ‘dangerous’ collision-like situation arises suddenly – However, severity of the collision would be reduced as a function of the reaction time
• Train derails and its wagons/coaches dash with another Train, already on ‘adjacent’ track – No reaction time situation
• ‘Failure’ of brake power of the Locomotive/train
• Rolling backward/forward of a ‘Stabled load’

Like SSridhar said, this surely will be herculean task! Imagine the infra required after looking at the setup in the link provided - repeaters, devices on trains, GPS connectivity - the works!

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 21 Oct 2009 22:02

manish wrote:Unfortunately I wasn't paying attention to this aspect before, so never bothered to check this on other major IR lines. Any info on this? Were the pilot installations and trials successful on IR lines?

In my area of Southern Railway the ACD is not implemented on track side or at station level. I have seen many WDM series locos with the words 'ACD fitted' imprinted on the cabs. A relative of mine, who is an engine driver did mention that there were 'unofficial instructions' as to not to use them on a regular basis. The device at that time (2 years back) had some major draw backs. One point he mentioned was that the ACD could activate at the brakes at any time, and the driver cannot over-ride it. But there was a problem from the signalling angle. Trains cannot stop at a position where there is no Home/Stop signal behind it. If a train gets stopped by the ACD at a position where only a distant signal is available, there are chances that a train coming behind it will ram into it.

PS: The standard signals in IR being ... Distant Signal (Orange/Green)--->Stop signal (Red/Green/Yellow) followed by either another set of Distant and Home Signals or Starter and Advanced Starter signals.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 21 Oct 2009 22:08

thanks manish and sanjay.

a news report loosely commented that why the ACD didn't work but I don't think that confirms the presence of ACD.

as of now, what has been known is that the mewar express had a robbery attempt and the police had made an unscheduled stop by pulling the chain. apparently the goa exp driver was not informed of it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Oct 2009 07:02

More Info on the accident

. . .the train halted for exactly eight minutes after the emergency chain was pulled and thereafter resumed its onward journey.

Once the Mewar Express came to a halt in the block section, the Automatic Block System(ABS) got operated protecting the stranded train through a barricade of signals cautioning the train behind to proceed with caution.

While stressing that he was not ruling out signal failure, Mr. Prakash outlined that the driver and his assistant had sufficient time to bring the Goa Express to a halt.

The explanation was that there were at least four signal posts spread over a stretch of four kilometres that the Goa Express had to pass through before ramming into the Mewar Express. No sooner did the latter come to a halt, the ABS would have thrown a shield of protection around it.

In the case of the Goa Express the first signal was the green signal, the second was a double yellow, amply forewarning that this next signal had to be a single yellow cautioning him further that the next post had to be red signal and to expect either a stranded train or any obstruction.

The signal aspects change as and when the stranded train moves or the obstruction is cleared. In this case the Mewar Express had resumed its onward journey.

. . . he was very emphatic that the ABS system was a well established, safe system in operation across the globe.

. . .With the introduction of air brakes the fastest of trains can be brought to a halt in much less than a kilometre. And the drivers of the Goa Express had more than 4 km to take evasive action.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 22 Oct 2009 13:04

Rahul M wrote:as of now, what has been known is that the mewar express had a robbery attempt and the police had made an unscheduled stop by pulling the chain

Hmm.. Was it a robbery attempt and chain pulling by the police, or the standard practise of people pulling the chain to get down at a convenient location for them? Right now the emergency chains are connected with the train's brakes directly. Guess we need to go for an 'alarm' system in which the driver/guard gets an indication and they bring the train to a halt at an appropriate location.

SSridhar wrote:the Automatic Block System(ABS)

If I understand it correctly ABS is different from ACD, and the signals change their aspects based on the train position.

he was very emphatic that the ABS system was a well established, safe system in operation across the globe.

As far as I know in UK this system is used extensively. The signal cabin controllers generally route the trains to a particular area and then it is ABS all the way, until it reaches large junctions etc., where the signals are again manually controlled.

Looks like here the driver and assistant of the Goa express were not careful enough. Did any report mention about walkie talkies or radio communication? The trains and nearby stations all operate on a single frequency, so all of them can know what is going on.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 22 Oct 2009 13:06

Found an interesting software - a simulation for the Signalling Centres in UK. This is based on real life stations (like Kings X, Edinburgh Waverly, Doncaster etc.)
Signalling Centre

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 22 Oct 2009 20:23

Sachin wrote:
Rahul M wrote:as of now, what has been known is that the mewar express had a robbery attempt and the police had made an unscheduled stop by pulling the chain
Hmm.. Was it a robbery attempt and chain pulling by the police, or the standard practise of people pulling the chain to get down at a convenient location for them?

It was a criminal who escaped by pulling the chain

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 147061.cms

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 23 Oct 2009 19:06

Sriman wrote:It was a criminal who escaped by pulling the chain

This may fit in well in the Police Reforms thread as well. It should be a mandate that prisoners taken in any mode of transport needs to be handcuffed, and if possible chained upto some strong part of the vehicle/compartment so that he cannot escape. In a train chances of prisoner escaping are even more, one standard gimmick being asking to goto the toilet. Often the number of policemen would be very less.

A reason being given for not using handcuffs is that in case of an emergency (eg: bus falling into a river), the prisoner would not be able to save his life because he is handcuffed.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 Oct 2009 22:14

A reason being given for not using handcuffs is that in case of an emergency (eg: bus falling into a river), the prisoner would not be able to save his life because he is handcuffed.

wasn't the handcuffing removed after human rights groups had protested eons back and the SC had passed similar order leading to scenes these days of policemen walking with the undertrials hand-in-hand to the courthouse?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 25 Oct 2009 23:06

sum wrote:scenes these days of policemen walking with the undertrials hand-in-hand to the courthouse?

And you know what? If an under trial escapes the police men on escort duty are immediately suspended and have to face an enquiry. No human right champions help the policemen on escort duty. Where on earth do you find laws which forbid hand cuffing of a criminal, giving him every chance to escape and then levelling charges against the police men doing the escort with practically zero measures to keep the chap in custody? IT ONLY HAPPENS IN INDIA

.

Sorry for the off topic...

.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 28 Oct 2009 21:55

Metro may inaugurate Yamuna Bank-Noida corridor in November

Delhi Metro may inaugurate the much awaited Yamuna Bank-Noida corridor in November, a month ahead of the revised schedule, with trail runs expected to start next week on the 13.1 km line.

However, huge rush is expected during the India International Trade Fair which will start from 14th November 2009 at Pragati Maidan and keeping this in view, the Delhi Metro is trying to open the Yamuna Bank-Noida line around the time of the trade fair," the spokesman said.

Parking facility has been provided at all stations uptill New Ashok Nagar and in Noida at Botanical Garden and Noida City Centre Metro stations.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Nov 2009 06:59

Jetro Tull!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Nov 2009 08:12

The bullet train was proposed during the BJP second term to ply between Delhi and Lucknow, after the then railway minister had visited Japan.

This is one of those feel good stories.

The track has to be elevated along the entire streach, it won't be on the ground, as even with fences on the ground, there will still be safety and security issues.
The cost will be very high, much more than either karnataka or tamil nadu can bear.

China however is setting up such lines to connect its major cities. They are all on elevated tracks, the chinese have imported the engines from ouirope IIRC. Soon when they can copy those engines and have sufficiently indegenized the tech, they'll say goodbye to the ouiropeans and start marketing their own stuff internationally.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 05 Nov 2009 09:02

I don't see why a HSL track has to be elevated. Neither the Shinkansen nor TGV lines are elevated above ground. Instead they the primary considerations are heavy and stable ballasting for stability, continuously welded rail, curvature geometry capable of accommodating centrifugal forces at speed, and of course, barricading sections where there's potential for human or animal ingress.

The cost/km is significantly higher, but in terms of overall productive economic stimulus for viable distances, it is a worthwhile investment. The crucial questions are whether the route is viable (neither too short nor too long), whether land acquisition is easy,and how to fund it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Nov 2009 07:20

Nilgiri Mountain Railways to speed up the train

The speed of the century-old trains, operated by the Nilgiri Mountain Railways between Mettupalayam and Udhagamandalam in Tamil Nadu is set to increase. With track-strengthening works along the 46-km stretch on the metre gauge nearing completion, engineers have decided to temporarily replace the steam locomotives with diesel engines.

According to the Chief Mechanical Engineer (Southern Railway) V. Carmelus, all seven steam locomotives imported from Switzerland had outlived their efficiency period. “While the normal life of a steam locomotive is 35 years, the age of these locomotives ranges between 52 years and 96 years. Despite efforts to maintain the system, the locomotives have failed on many occasions, causing inconvenience to passengers.”

“The Research Design and Standards Organisation and the Commissioner of Railway Safety have cleared the proposal to operate trains with twin-diesel locomotives. With improved tracks conditions and enhanced hauling power of diesel engines, the speed of the trains will go up from the present 13 kmph in the critical Kallar-Coonoor (20 kms) section.”

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 06 Nov 2009 11:25

SSridhar wrote:Nilgiri Mountain Railways to speed up the train

I hope they still retain the steam locos, it is part of our heritage. And a few of them should be maintained well, so that it can be used for heritage runs. A time may come when tourists would insists that they wish to climb the Nilgiris on a steam train

.

I have seen such heritage runs happening in UK.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Nov 2009 11:50

Rs. 100 Crore facelift for Chennai Central Station

The official also said the projects would involve a string of passenger amenities of international standards — with provisions for escalators, elevators and walkalators, besides a host of facilities for arrival and departure of passengers.

Above all, multi-level platforms would be created for the arrival and departure of express and suburban services from the same complex. The security system would be upgraded with a strong CCTV network. A multi-level parking area would also be in place, apart from more subways and road over bridges. A link with Chennai Metro Rail would also be established.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 19 Nov 2009 12:02

It will not happen. All projects for SR have been put on hold due to usage of funds that was allocated for them

Jitendra · Post by **Jitendra** » 20 Nov 2009 00:09

Don't mean to sound like a hillybilly but my blackberry provides tracking of my location within 300 feet or less. The real GPS trackers get much much closer than that.

So why is it so diificult for a central computer to track each compartment of each train precisely, track them on the finite railway track map and a) alert when things get too close to comfort b) activate nearby signals and c) stop the trains in question?

Having to install lines along millions of kilometers of track, ongoing maintenance, health check of the continuity of these lines etc seem daunting and never completing.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 20 Nov 2009 11:15

How will the central computer get the position data? Cell coverage is still not adequate in the country.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 20 Nov 2009 11:23

Dileep wrote:How will the central computer get the position data? Cell coverage is still not adequate in the country.

GPS is sat-based isn't it? Not connected to cell networks? It could work even in remote areas where we dont have cellphone coverage in our rail network.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 20 Nov 2009 12:02

tsriram wrote:
Dileep wrote:How will the central computer get the position data? Cell coverage is still not adequate in the country.
GPS is sat-based isn't it? Not connected to cell networks? It could work even in remote areas where we dont have cellphone coverage in our rail network.

tsriram,

try using your gps as your phone in a remote location. Why will it or will not work?

The far away central computer getting your gps data where you are is different from you getting your location with gps.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 20 Nov 2009 12:30

ravi_ku wrote:
tsriram wrote: GPS is sat-based isn't it? Not connected to cell networks? It could work even in remote areas where we dont have cellphone coverage in our rail network.
tsriram,

try using your gps as your phone in a remote location. Why will it or will not work?

The far away central computer getting your gps data where you are is different from you getting your location with gps.

I think its time to get some sleep. Totally forgot about that part

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Nov 2009 12:32

http://www.ndtv.com/news/photos/album-d ... 60+injured

Jharkhand: Naxals target train; 1 dead, 60 injured

One person has died and nearly 60 are injured as maoists have struck again by blowing up a railway track in Jharkhand just as a train was passing by.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 20 Nov 2009 14:14

IR to roll out track management system

In addition, Railways have also taken following steps to ensure longevity of Railway tracks – use of concrete sleepers, use of heavy section of rails, development of corrosion resistant rail by improvement of metallurgy of rail, anti corrosive treatment of track components, rail lubrication, improved rail pads and ballast deep screening.

The Minister pointed out that the other steps to increase longevity of railway tracks include introduction of wheel impact load detector, change of alignment of train toilet chutes so that discharge does not fall on track rails and track fastenings, trial with environment friendly coach toilets {For how long will we have these trials ? They have been going on for a long time now} and weigh bridges to ensure overloaded wagons are not present in goods trains.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 20 Nov 2009 20:46

ravi_ku wrote:The far away central computer getting your gps data where you are is different from you getting your location with gps.

I think that the railways now have a system of giving an update on train positions on-line. No 'hi-tech stuff'. Station Masters any way report to the Divisional Control (on the "Control" phone) about train arrivals/departures and permission to "accept" trains on line etc. This seems to be now done via a computer, and the data is also shared with general public (http://www.trainenquiry.com).

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 20 Nov 2009 21:19

Sachin wrote:
ravi_ku wrote:The far away central computer getting your gps data where you are is different from you getting your location with gps.
I think that the railways now have a system of giving an update on train positions on-line. No 'hi-tech stuff'. Station Masters any way report to the Divisional Control (on the "Control" phone) about train arrivals/departures and permission to "accept" trains on line etc. This seems to be now done via a computer, and the data is also shared with general public (http://www.trainenquiry.com).

Definitely possible, afterall the IR has one of India's largest OFC network under it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Nov 2009 12:15

Sachin wrote:
ravi_ku wrote:The far away central computer getting your gps data where you are is different from you getting your location with gps.
I think that the railways now have a system of giving an update on train positions on-line. No 'hi-tech stuff'. Station Masters any way report to the Divisional Control (on the "Control" phone) about train arrivals/departures and permission to "accept" trains on line etc. This seems to be now done via a computer, and the data is also shared with general public (http://www.trainenquiry.com).

Sachin, I don't know about other railway divisions. But, it was available in Southern Railway about 8 years or so back. I regularly used to follow the train movements when my relatives in India were travelling and a Swedish friend of mine was impressed by what he saw.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 21 Nov 2009 20:18

SSridhar wrote:Sachin, I don't know about other railway divisions. But, it was available in Southern Railway about 8 years or so back.

Yes, but I think it was not kind of standardised. Initially they had a kind of Java applet application which uses to show train positions on the map. This was first introduced in the Chennai area, and tracking only started from Arakkonam Jn. (AJJ). But my understanding is that this was not put to use and died a slow death. Now www.trainenquiry.com has got a no frill user interface which does not have any kind of map, but shows ETA and ETD at every station for a train.

BTW, if my understanding is correct Southern Railways are considered pioneers in any new technical improvements

.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Nov 2009 10:42

World's Largest (?) Plasma Screen at Chennai Central Station

A 103-inch plasma screen informing the arrival and departure of trains was installed at the Chennai Central Station on Friday. The screen, claimed to be the world’s largest (8 ft x 4.5 ft), is the first of its kind in the Indian Railways.

A public-private partnership venture between the railways and Armour Display Systems, the screen is commissioned at the main concourse hall between platforms 5 and 6 and is visible to passengers the moment they enter the station.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Nov 2009 13:06

Raliways save Rs. 5 Crore using wind energy

The Indian Railways has saved Rs 5 crore in seven months by drawing energy from the windmills commissioned in Tirunelveli for the Integral Coach Factory (ICF) at Perambur, Chennai.

The Railways commissioned the windmills to generate 10.5 MW on March 30, 2009, in Kasturirangapuram and Urumangalam village, Tirunelveli, Tamil Nadu.

The Railways has also completed electrification of more than 1,200 manned level crossings with solar-based lighting system.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Dec 2009 09:08

Four new oil-fired steam locos for Nilgiri Mountain Railways (NMR)

Preliminary work connected with the manufacture of four new oil-fired steam locomotives for the Nilgiri Mountain Railway (NMR) has commenced at the Golden Rock Railway Workshop here {in Tiruchi}.

The first steam engine would roll out in December 2010, the authorities said, adding that efforts would be made to advance the delivery.

A senior official said that of the seven steam locos that were in operation in the over 100-year-old NMR metre gauge section, two engines had already been converted from coal to oil-fired by changing some components in the locos.

The work of converting two more steam locos from coal to oil-fired was currently on at the workshop.

Conversion of coal into oil-fired system has some benefits as it would prevent forest fires that could be caused by embers flying out from the loco. Secondly, manual lifting of coal and putting it into the boiler would also be done away with. An oil-fired loco would require only one fireman accompanying the loco pilot, whereas coal-fired engine requires two firemen other than the loco pilot.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 24 Dec 2009 01:57

Old beauty signals goodbye

With the old giving way to the new, cabins housing the traditional signalling systems at the City railway station were dismantled and a single computerised signalling system began operations recently.

However, the railways is just not able to let go of its 40-plus electrical-mechanical signalling system in one of its cabins which is part of Bangalore Division’s history. The cabin with the machine are now set to be preserved for posterity.

...

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 29 Dec 2009 13:23

RaviBg wrote:However, the railways is just not able to let go of its 40-plus electrical-mechanical signalling system in one of its cabins which is part of Bangalore Division’s history. The cabin with the machine are now set to be preserved for posterity.

Yes, the "Signal Cabins" of yesteryears are getting replaced really quickly. Earlier every way side station had signal cabins (either on both ends, or atleast on one end). But now the signalling for such small stations is done by the SM from his room. Bigger stations (Junctions) etc. had cabins atleast to control the train movements in the yards. Looks like that is also getting replaced. Bangalore city should retain the cabin and its equipments, and if possible make it a small working museum.

Umrao Das · Post by **Umrao Das** » 29 Dec 2009 20:41

Anybdosy recallthe Ball/Token system of ?

I gre up summers of 1967/1968 watching the facinating precision act.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 30 Dec 2009 19:51

Umrao Das wrote:Anybdosy recallthe Ball/Token system of ?

The Neils Token block system I guess is existing even today in some rural lines. This system is used even today between PNQ and GVR stations in Kerala. But this system has been phased out on all major routes.

I gre up summers of 1967/1968 watching the facinating precision act.

I hope you meant the Khalasi passing on the token to the driver of the speeding train

. The actual working of the block instrument from where the steel ball token pops out is interesting, but I dont think it would require great precision.