Miscellaneous Pictures - Indian Military

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Jan 2010 20:09

Riza Zaman wrote:
Rahul M wrote:if people remember the stuck ropeway rescue at mussoorie from late 80's, the army officer who conducted the actual rescue was just back from a recently completed SF course in russia.
You're referring to Major (later Col.) Crasto and cable car incident at Parwanoo ... iirc he has since left the army (maybe retired) and joined the hospitality management field - in Goa, I think?

ah, thanks a lot !

yes, that's it. I wracked my brain but for heaven's sake couldn't remember his name ! all I remembered was it was a portugese type name.

trivia : one of the two helo pilots in that mission was a certain FH Major, later CAS ! flying Mi-17 IIRC.

Riza Zaman · Post by **Riza Zaman** » 06 Jan 2010 19:28

Surya wrote:Riza -

drop me a line at balaji_b4 at garam mail

Sent you an e-mail, just in case my e-mail is: riza.zaman(at)investors(dot)com

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 06 Jan 2010 22:07

This is Srinagar encounter pic. Courtesy Zeenews.

There is a soldier in the pic 1st row, 2nd from left with different helmet (US's soldier like). Nice to see new design helmet.

Ankit

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 06 Jan 2010 22:37

Ankit Desai wrote:

This is Srinagar encounter pic. Courtesy Zeenews.

There is a soldier in the pic 1st row, 2nd from left with different helmet (US's soldier like). Nice to see new design helmet.

Ankit

Well, its nice. But don't you think that the patka is more effective, keeping in mind the requirements of the Indian Army?

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 06 Jan 2010 22:46

atreya wrote: Well, its nice. But don't you think that the patka is more effective, keeping in mind the requirements of the Indian Army?

Well, I said nice because it looks better than traditional bike kind of helmet which our SF or Army used to wear. I will still go with helmet new helmet. I have always doubt about top portion of patka, it looks always thin layer of cotton to me.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 06 Jan 2010 22:58

Ankit Desai wrote:
atreya wrote: Well, its nice. But don't you think that the patka is more effective, keeping in mind the requirements of the Indian Army?
Well, I said nice because it looks better than traditional bike kind of helmet which our SF or Army used to wear. I will still go with helmet new helmet. I have always doubt about top portion of patka, it looks always thin layer of cotton to me.

Yes, you are right, actually. But if the patka is stiff on the top, it defeats its very purpose. The patka was made for Sikh soldiers, if I am not mistaken. A helmet, which they can wear over their turban. That is why, the top portion is made of cloth, I think. I had read about some talk about standardizing the patka across the Army, with some modifications, of course (in a BR thread, I think...but not a pakka report, as such). Maybe, these "modifications" refer to strengthening the top portion of the patka?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 06 Jan 2010 23:20

Ankit Desai wrote: This is Srinagar encounter pic. Courtesy Zeenews.

There is a soldier in the pic 1st row, 2nd from left with different helmet (US's soldier like). Nice to see new design helmet.

Ankit

Definately not a US Soldier type Helmet, but they are what we call a Bike (bi-cycle) helmet.. Would rather have them wear the Patkas than these goofy looking ones! Judging by the looks of it who knows if they can even stop a bullet? But to each it's own!

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 07 Jan 2010 00:28

Really, why do the looks of the helmet matter? I am all for a good looking soldier; but to praise a helmet just because it looks like the one worn be US soldiers?

I am afraid it is beyond my understanding.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Jan 2010 01:07

Gaur wrote:Really, why do the looks of the helmet matter? I am all for a good looking soldier; but to praise a helmet just because it looks like the one worn be US soldiers? I am afraid it is beyond my understanding.

Indeed! It is NOT worn by the US soliders. This is what ours look like

See the difference with the bicycle type minus the electornics ???

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 07 Jan 2010 01:50

Srinagar encounter

Kashmiri residents are frisked by security forces in Srinagar. Suspected Muslim militants on Wednesday opened fire in the main market area of Indian Kashmir's summer capital Srinagar, killing one police officer and sending residents running for cover.
(AFP/Rouf Bhat)

sunny y · Post by **sunny y** » 07 Jan 2010 02:11

Indeed! It is NOT worn by the US soliders. This is what ours look like
See the difference with the bicycle type minus the electornics ???

From the below given pic it looks like a hybrid version of US helmet & bicycle helmet...From the front it looks like a bicycle helmet but from sides it is almost similiar to US helmet.

X Posting from COIN operations thread...

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 07 Jan 2010 02:18

Gaur wrote:Really, why do the looks of the helmet matter? I am all for a good looking soldier; but to praise a helmet just because it looks like the one worn be US soldiers? I am afraid it is beyond my understanding.

The reference to word " US " is to give better idea about my comment. I was talking about the difference of helmet which our SF and soldiers used to wear. eg is our paratroopers. and the helmet worn now which looks vary similar to US forces. My comment was never to copy US gears. When I said "Nice" that means nice in appearance than old one .The quality of it will always be tested in real time. I failed to understand that why " US " word is so bothering.

Anyway If we follow similar pic in COIN and CT thread than that new helmet was worn by some 2 star General?Not the regular soldier or SF ! (Note:- wrote down the post before sunnny y post)

Ankit

George J · Post by **George J** » 07 Jan 2010 06:58

The PASGT pictured above is a NIJ Level IIIA product (i.e. 9 mm/ .44 Magnum rounds). The Patka pictured above is for all practical purposes a NIJ LEVEL III (7.62mm Nato and AK) in the front and 9mm in the rear. LEVEL III >>>> LEVEL IIIA.

I have not been able to find a LEVEL III PASGT helmet...there are Level III/IV body armor but no helmets.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 07 Jan 2010 08:23

"This helmet is too small and the Mumbai Force One bought theirs' from Darth Vader's yard sale. The old ones are scooter like. None are NATO/US like"

al-pakis have evolved their tactics around the world due to advances in personal armor, yet the lament in this threads never changes. Biggest causalities nowadays seem to be from IEDs, proximal detonation of grenades and soosai vests, not gentlemen-marksmen who aim for "that clean shot". For that there is no clean solution other than traveling inside mine protected vehicles.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Jan 2010 09:06

Have we also started putting stars on the helmet ( US style) to indicate rank? IIRC, i had seen only US style collar tabs so far in the IA. Am seeing stars on the helmet for the first time.

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 07 Jan 2010 10:25

WRT to stars on the helmet, aren't they inviting the terrorists to fire on themselves? IIRC, in an operation all the personnel wear similar looking uniform and kit so as to prevent ID'ing their ranks and hierarchy. If you know who the commander is and take him out, your op is impacted severely due to lack of command and direction. So what gives for this chap?

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Jan 2010 10:37

^ That is why the stripes/stars and other decorations on the uniform are usually matt black i.e. cannot be visually IDd from a distance , infact the IA has different sets of uniforms and badges for occasions (ceremonial, field or combat).

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 07 Jan 2010 12:14

negi wrote:^ That is why the stripes/stars and other decorations on the uniform are usually matt black i.e. cannot be visually IDd from a distance , infact the IA has different sets of uniforms and badges for occasions (ceremonial, field or combat).

It may well be a left behind helmet from bilateral exercises.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Jan 2010 13:12

IMHO, the officer seems to be from a CPMF, going by the khakhi shirt/sweater he is wearing ( though pants are army style camo). So, not sure if the bilateral exercise bit is valid in that case.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 07 Jan 2010 14:43

Using the helmet in Craig’s picture, a person could strangle himself with all those wires around.
1. I am curious to know in sustained combat, where a person has to sprint, shoot, twist, turn and do a whole lot of calisthenics all the time, how does the wearer keeps all those wires untangled/un-torn/plugged?
2. How long does the battery/power supply last for a fully gizmo loaded guy?
3. What does one do when batteries run out, dump the gizmos or carry dead weight?
4. What the weight of a full set of gizmos, including batteries?
5. Optics get smudged and scratched quite easily and very frequently. Doesn’t cleaning them affect efficiency in the thick of combat?
6. Medically - How does a person, whose eyes are used to getting data from a screen - and - whose ears are used to getting data from an earplug – react when the equipment is no longer available? Are his eyes and ears able adjust to the natural environment immediately?

Ricky · Post by **Ricky** » 07 Jan 2010 17:17

sameer_shelavale wrote:I just made this wallpaper and wanted to share it,
But I am not sure if this is the correct thread.

EDITED: the m-16 is replaced now, but i still need a better image

Thanks Sameer..this is epic!!
Salutes

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 07 Jan 2010 22:37

A disturbing image of the fallen soldier being retrieved. <clicky>

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 07 Jan 2010 23:12

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 07 Jan 2010 23:34

the 2 star helmet belongs to IGP - CRPF, as seen on newsx

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Jan 2010 23:44

tsarkar wrote:Using the helmet in Craig’s picture, a person could strangle himself with all those wires around.
1. I am curious to know in sustained combat, where a person has to sprint, shoot, twist, turn and do a whole lot of calisthenics all the time, how does the wearer keeps all those wires untangled/un-torn/plugged?
2. How long does the battery/power supply last for a fully gizmo loaded guy?
3. What does one do when batteries run out, dump the gizmos or carry dead weight?
4. What the weight of a full set of gizmos, including batteries?
5. Optics get smudged and scratched quite easily and very frequently. Doesn’t cleaning them affect efficiency in the thick of combat?
6. Medically - How does a person, whose eyes are used to getting data from a screen - and - whose ears are used to getting data from an earplug – react when the equipment is no longer available? Are his eyes and ears able adjust to the natural environment immediately?

Chief - if you look carefully, you'll see that these wires are not "too loose" nor "too tight." Hence Strangling is out of the question, or else by now you'd have heard about a)soliders dying because of their helmets electrical cord or b) congress/army not approving the new helmets being supplied to GI's out in the Field. With that being said that should answer number 1, as the wires are thoroughly fitted inside and through their helmets to their pockets, and duffleg bags.
2) Normally the battery/power supply lasts for an entire mission ie. anywhere from 2 hrs to 12 hrs as these are designed to operate on a low power. These can later be charged inside their Humvv's or Bradley, or they have a back-up PS, if all fails they have additional sets of batteries which they can use.
3) Since they never exceed their mission profile time, they don't have to worry about carrying dead weight. In the event, the scenario turns ture, they can either swap it with their/plattons backup or take steps mentioned in number 2. If all fails then I GUESS it would be considered dead weight.
4) roughly 2-7 pounds.
5) they are designed keeping the rough enviornemnt they operate in mind. Further there is added protection built in for the sand dunes, sharpnel and some small arms fire protection. keep in mind these are still electornics and they cannot uparmor them so to speak, as they have to be within the weight requirements so they will eventually break down..
6) You bet'cha. These are meant to give them an advantage over their adversaires who say cannot see in the dark and hence their movement is restricted. In the event, all electornic equipment fails, they rely on their basic training and fight it out like they are trained too. Believe me when I tell you this, all GI's still carry a COMPASS and a PAPER MAP even though their is a GPS attached to each individually... Worst case scenario, if all fails you call in the big ol'bird. give them your co-ordinates and you will be rescued.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Jan 2010 23:54

George J wrote:The PASGT pictured above is a NIJ Level IIIA product (i.e. 9 mm/ .44 Magnum rounds). The Patka pictured above is for all practical purposes a NIJ LEVEL III (7.62mm Nato and AK) in the front and 9mm in the rear. LEVEL III >>>> LEVEL IIIA.

I have not been able to find a LEVEL III PASGT helmet...there are Level III/IV body armor but no helmets.

GJ maaan is absolutely correct.

The Patka helmet offered superior protection around the forehead and sides of the head from shrapnel and debris from IEDs and mines compared to the helmet. The standard bullet-proof helmets only provided protection against 9mm weapons, whereas patka helmets gave superior protection against AK-47 to the forehead and rest of the head area. It is also remarkably light and easy to customize that allowed for a lot of the customization of kit that can be seen in deployed units.

As such, the Patka helmet has been unofficially adopted as the headgear of choice for all troops on COIN and anti-terror missions, across all regiments and police units.
Furthermore, as a general rule of thumb is, if you see a photo of an Indian soldier wearing a standard or ballistic helmet he is engaged in conventional operations (like in Kargil War photos, or patrols on the India-Tibet and -China border where infiltration is not an issue.) If he is wearing a Patka, he's engaged in COIN or anti-terror ops. Hence the 2 star Non-patka wearing saabji, might be from a different unit with a different role. (educated guess). Wouldn't mind if I was stood corrected.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 07 Jan 2010 23:59

Don't know if these were posted here earlier or not.. Mod's if a repost - please do the necessary and my apologies!
. This is what I call THE POWER OF PUNJAB - CHAK DE PHATTE

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 08 Jan 2010 00:41

In the above patka picture.....what if the blast's vibration caused some brick or something fall on his head? may be in urban areas...terrorists hiding on building tops have an advantage??? ...not the right thread to discuss anyway...

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 08 Jan 2010 00:48

Venkarl wrote:In the above patka picture.....what if the blast's vibration caused some brick or something fall on his head? may be in urban areas...terrorists hiding on building tops have an advantage??? ...not the right thread to discuss anyway...

not to take this OT, but Now obviously, in this modern age of balistics, a Sikh turban cannot be worn in combat. So an ingenious solution was developed; a headgear made of a ballistic strip manufactured from high-density, die-pressed phantom steel and kevlar was made for Sikh soldiers that would go around the pagadi, as is shown in the following photos also of Punjab Regiment: Hopefully that'll lay rest to throwing bricks on top of someone which would be a suicide mission as the terriost would have been shot dead already by members of the platoon..

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 08 Jan 2010 01:06

Thanks for the explanation Sir. Terrorists throwing bricks!!!!!...

heights

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 08 Jan 2010 04:10

Actually you won't believe how true it can get some time as I can give you a combat example which is not COIN in nature so bear with me please.

In Kargil, the Pakis could roll down a large number of boulders on top of ascending Indian troops. Some of these were spot on but mainly they caused more nuisance than anything else. Now with these boulders came down a large number of smaller rocks tumbling as well ...

those smaller rocks would have caused a lot of issues for the soldiers climbing if they were issued with Patkas instead of regular Helmets. The smaller rocks being the size of one's fist for example.

Sometimes the Pakis even rolled down hand grenades to start mini avalanches.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jan 2010 07:37

Craig Alpert wrote:

What a beautiful action picture.

I wonder - is that soldier really left handed or do they train for ambidextrousness in such situations?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jan 2010 07:45

The picture below shows the type of helmet that was suitable for trench warfare in which falling debris from artillery fire hitting troops in trenches was a bigger danger than bullets flying at the side of the head. I believe that in COIN ops it is the sides of the head that are more likely to be hit by fire than injuries from falling debris. Note that a helmet of any thickness cannot protect the head from a falling brick because the impact can break the neck and leave a dead or paralysed man with an uninjured head.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Jan 2010 07:56

Craig Alpert,
IIRC all those policewomen with the AKMs are J&K police, and those are village defense committee women members in J&K being trained by the army.
Those pictures were posted here ~ 1-2 yrs back.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jan 2010 08:02

Craig Alpert wrote: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8103/07ai2.jpg

Another left handed soldier? Or trained to be left handed?

bodhi · Post by **bodhi** » 08 Jan 2010 08:08

shiv wrote:
Craig Alpert wrote:
What a beautiful action picture.

I wonder - is that soldier really left handed or do they train for ambidextrousness in such situations?

And he is carrying 2 guns i believe other than his sidearm...you can see the butt sticking out over his left shoulder. Could it be a shotgun for CQB or is it my imagination running wild after playing too much Modern Warfare?

Are all soldiers armed with a sidearm?

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 08 Jan 2010 08:19

shiv wrote:
Craig Alpert wrote: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8103/07ai2.jpg
Another left handed soldier? Or trained to be left handed?

Trained to be ambidextrous. I remember this from one of the Commando series videos shown on BBC about 10 years ago. Check out the videos by vishv on youtube. Sorry too lazy right now give the exact episode

but it deals with the chaps being taught to operate in buddy pairs and using sign language to communicate.

Added later: Maj Deep Bhagat is the name of the guy as pointed out by Raja Bose.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jan 2010 08:29

^^^IIRC the guy who was demonstrating that at Belgaum was a Para himself (Major Deep Bhagat).

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 08 Jan 2010 08:30

bodhi wrote:
And he is carrying 2 guns i believe other than his sidearm...you can see the butt sticking out over his left shoulder. Could it be a shotgun for CQB or is it my imagination running wild after playing too much Modern Warfare?

Are all soldiers armed with a sidearm?

I haven't seen any soldier with two weapons especially rifles/carbines. That could be a ramming tool for forced entry. Also soldiers aren't normally armed with a sidearm from the pics I have seen so far. Although the ones from 26/11 do show some of them with a pistol in a hip holster like http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 08#p574208

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 Jan 2010 08:36

There's another soldier behind him, there are two shadows, the second soldier's foot is visible.