Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Awesome stuff - keep it coming
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Mig 29k with TVC ??Shankar wrote: On the flight deck the first of the 8 Mig 29K fitted with thrust vectoring engines and ....
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
I have been following this site for years now as guest user, gr8 work shankar!!
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
INS VIKRAMADITYA-BLACK PANTHER FLIGHT –300 KM EAST OF SRILANKAN COAST –INDIAN OCEAN
Commander Viren Sekhawat clicked on the thrust vectoring switch as he scanned the flight deck for any foreighn object living or not .One of the most well kept secrets of the navy was the thrust vectoring capability of the second batch of Mig 29K/UB ordered and the first 12 was relegated to training rookie pilots only . During sea trails it was found that the thrust vectoring capability as available in OVT series and in Mig 35 s greatly enhanced the aircraft safety during night take off and landing in rough sea as a result most of the on board fulcrums were equipped with such engines .
- tower black panther lead -ready for take off
- stand by black panther lead - getting latest intercept vector now
- clear deck for aircraft launch
- black panther lead -tower - you are cleared for take off - fly to 2000 meters -turn left heading 085 -contact Phalcon 1 on frequency -- Mhz
-your authorization code is delta delta alpha seven repeat delta delta alpha seven - good hunting -over
- tower -black panther lead -rolling now
Viren leaned forward and grabbed the stick at the same time slowly moving the collective power all the way to maximum after burner pushing up the thrust to nearly 185% normal max military power allowed on the twin RD 33 engines . The main wheel restrainers vibrated under the new longitudinal load but held firm as the in build sensors checked the strain and at the right moment signalled the electromagnetic latch to open allowing the fulcrum to leap forward and along the flight deck crusing past 250 kmph in less than 3.5 seconds .
Viren held the nose down as the air speed rocketed upwards to 350 kmph as his other hand slapped the undercarriage up . and only then he allowed the automatic reflex to pull up act and the rate of climb indicator showed a healthy climb out rate of 3000 meters per minute -it was time to retract the flaps and as the flaps retracted with a smooth hiss of hydraulics the flight quietened some what and air speed built up to 650 kmph altitude 1800 meters -it was time to set in the contact heading -altitude 2000 meters and into thick clouds -level out reduce power to 85 % full military power - change frequency to Phalcon and await target vectors
Commander Viren Sekhawat clicked on the thrust vectoring switch as he scanned the flight deck for any foreighn object living or not .One of the most well kept secrets of the navy was the thrust vectoring capability of the second batch of Mig 29K/UB ordered and the first 12 was relegated to training rookie pilots only . During sea trails it was found that the thrust vectoring capability as available in OVT series and in Mig 35 s greatly enhanced the aircraft safety during night take off and landing in rough sea as a result most of the on board fulcrums were equipped with such engines .
By 2005 the MiG-29M OVT had performed about 50 flights with thrust vectoring; OVT system and its controls are tested, as well as its connection to the aircraft control system, nozzle vectoring mechanics, computer hardware and software. Aerodynamic surfaces control and engine nozzles were integrated into the aircraft control system. Further work was intended to increase the aircraft maneuverability.Another direction of MiG-29 family aircraft development is increasing its maneuverability characteristics. Within the frames of this program MiG Corp. presents MiG 29OVT multirole fighter with new all-directional moving nozzle engines, allowing to control the vector of thrust in wide dispersion. This increases the fighter's maneuverability and characteristics in air combat. Besides, MiG-29OVT has increased number of weapons hardpoints by two points for “air-to-air” missiles on the wingtips.
The outstanding feature of the MiG-29OVT multifunctional fighter is the thrust-vector control engine responsible for the aircraft's high maneuverability and the increase of its combat effectiveness if compared with other jets of its class. The RD-33OVT engine of Klimov installed on the Mig-29OVT is 360 degrees adjustable, which outperforms even the AL-31 on the Sukhois. The primary MiG-29M OVT quality is super maneuverability, or the possibility to fly at low, close to zero, speed without angle of attack limitations. This is achieved by thrust vectoring engines (RD-33OVT developed by Klimov plant) and electronic remote control system. Thrust vectoring is provided by three-dimensional nozzles. Thrust vectoring allow the fighter to maneuver with high angular velocities and hard decelerations, assuming practically any angle position unexpected for an attacker.
Essentially MiG-29OVT program is a thrust vectoring technology demonstrator, which will be used in new family of MiG fighters. In particular, future series of MiG-29M and MiG-29M2 will be equipped by engines with similar thrust vectoring system. “Three-dimensional thrust vectoring will make MiG-29M/M2 control more precise and confident, practically independent from the angle of attack, both while performing super maneuverability elements and traditional piloting”, notes MiG Corp. Mikoyan Design Bureau Engineering Center director Bladimir Barkovsky. “It will give MiG-29M/M2 serious advantage in dogfight, increasing the piloting safety at critical modes, which will reduce the load on the pilot and allow him to concentrate on combat tasks. New possibilities increase the aircraft combat effectiveness and competitiveness”.
At MAKS 2001 a lot of things were unveiled, including the Su-27UB and Su-35UB twinseat multirole fighters, Su-24M, Su-25 and Su-39 attack aircraft upgrades, Su-47 Berkut experimental aircraft, MiG-29M2 twinseat combat aircraft and the MiG-29OVT thrust-vectored prototype. As of 2003 this aircraft was passing through static and flight testing. MiG-29M OVT first flight took place in 2003, and by 2005 the MiG Corp. had practically finished the flight test program. The 7th Moscow International Air Show - MAKS - took place in Zhukovsky, Russia on 16-21 August 2005. The most spectacular episode of the show was a flight demonstration by the MiG-29OVT. The aircraft performed for eight minutes unseen-before aerobatic stunts considered impossible for heavier-than-air craft. The reason is that aircraft with thrust vector control, such as the Russian Su-30MKI and US F-22, are capable of turning the thrust vector in one plane only. The MiG-29OVT is the first aircraft capable of rotating its thrust vector in three planes.
- tower black panther lead -ready for take off
- stand by black panther lead - getting latest intercept vector now
- clear deck for aircraft launch
- black panther lead -tower - you are cleared for take off - fly to 2000 meters -turn left heading 085 -contact Phalcon 1 on frequency -- Mhz
-your authorization code is delta delta alpha seven repeat delta delta alpha seven - good hunting -over
- tower -black panther lead -rolling now
Viren leaned forward and grabbed the stick at the same time slowly moving the collective power all the way to maximum after burner pushing up the thrust to nearly 185% normal max military power allowed on the twin RD 33 engines . The main wheel restrainers vibrated under the new longitudinal load but held firm as the in build sensors checked the strain and at the right moment signalled the electromagnetic latch to open allowing the fulcrum to leap forward and along the flight deck crusing past 250 kmph in less than 3.5 seconds .
Viren held the nose down as the air speed rocketed upwards to 350 kmph as his other hand slapped the undercarriage up . and only then he allowed the automatic reflex to pull up act and the rate of climb indicator showed a healthy climb out rate of 3000 meters per minute -it was time to retract the flaps and as the flaps retracted with a smooth hiss of hydraulics the flight quietened some what and air speed built up to 650 kmph altitude 1800 meters -it was time to set in the contact heading -altitude 2000 meters and into thick clouds -level out reduce power to 85 % full military power - change frequency to Phalcon and await target vectors
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Awesome buildup and scenario Sir, This is my 1st post although I have been following this site for few months.. Hope one day I will be able to contribute positively to this site or a movement I shall call…. 
-
soumik
- BRFite
- Posts: 133
- Joined: 15 Jan 2009 21:01
- Location: running away from ninja monkey asassins
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
All Hail the great Shankarosky!grt stuff sir
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
"....rolling drums"..... another prediction - let's see if this turns out to be as accurate as Arihant = Akula IIShankar wrote: One of the most well kept secrets of the navy was the thrust vectoring capability of the second batch of Mig 29K/UB .....
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please keep ot coming shanker daa
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Jet fighters fitted with engines that vector or direct thrust obliquely can perform spectacular maneuvers, which could provide the edge in close-in aerial combat.
Despite the growing capabilities of beyond-visual-range missiles, front-line fighter pilots and Pentagon planners agree that
an edge must also be maintained in dog fighting to ensure success in future air combat. "Sophisticated electronic warfare techniques, radar-evading stealth technology, and the need for visual identification all increase the chances of fighters stumbling onto each other in the merge and getting into a knife-fight," said Col. Michael S. Francis of the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) in Arlington, Va.
In a close encounter (within visual range) between two supersonic fighters, both aircraft typically lose speed and height (what pilots call "energy") as they jockey for a firing position, trying to kill before counterlaunch. Much of this maneuvering goes on as each aircraft is oriented at a high angle of attack (AOA), a high-drag condition in which the wings form a steep angle with the oncoming air flow. As airspeed drops, stability is degraded, and conventional aerodynamic control surfaces - flaps - become less effective.
Airfoils lose lift or "stall" at these high angles of attack. "Post-stall" refers to flight conditions in which it becomes suddenly more difficult to maintain control, even for fighters, whose airframes are usually designed to minimize loss of control at high AOAs.
A lesser-known method by which a jet aircraft can modify its attitude regardless of airspeed is by directing the thrust of its jet engine obliquely from the center-line, a technique known as thrust vectoring. "Thrust vectoring is a new fundamental force and moment generator that works at slow speeds and in conditions in which conventional control surfaces don't work," said Francis, who serves as the ARPA manager for the X-31 Enhanced Maneuverability Fighter program, one of several research projects that have recently demonstrated vectored-thrust technology.
Skeptics have claimed that post-stall flight could easily lead to catastrophe. In a one-versus-two dogfight, for example, any excursion to high angles of attack dumps a fighter's energy, potentially leaving the plane a sitting duck. However, studies conducted in recent years by U.S. government agencies including the Air Force, Navy, ARPA, and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, as well as by airframe and aero-engine manufacturers, have shown that thrust-vectoring capability often helps a fighter to prevail in mock engagements. These advanced aircraft can gain dogfight superiority by performing spectacular maneuvers never seen before except on flight-simulation computer screens.
These amazing moves include the J-turn, a technique by which an airplane rapidly reverses direction by pitching up to a high AOA and then quickly swings around about its velocity vector to pull inside an opponent's turn circle, for example. Another maneuver is the helicopter gun attack, a controlled flat spin in which a fighter's nose (and hence, its gun) stays pointed at a turning adversary.
When these maneuvers are skillfully used, planes with post-stall maneuvering capability exhibited remarkably high kill rates and survivability in mock air combat trials. A fighter equipped with vectored thrust, therefore, would have a distinct tactical advantage over a conventional adversary because it could be more aggressive in close encounters by "rating" its nose more quickly toward opponents from almost any attitude.
"Thrust vectoring was very effective in our close-in combat evaluations," said Lester Small, Air Force program manager for the Multi-Axis Thrust Vectoring project. "It gives the pilot a lot more control power, even if a pilot cannot take the offensive, and he can usually threaten adversaries with its nose position, thus forcing the fight." Small, who is based at Wright Laboratories near Dayton, Ohio, added that the pilots were surprised at how fast they could pick up the technique.
"Vectored thrust is no panacea," Small said. "It's just another tool in the pilot's toolbox. You have to be smart in using it, because a plane slows down real fast at high AOA." The toughest thing, it turns out, is to learn how to get in and out of post-stall flight quickly.
There are other benefits of thrust vectoring besides improved dogfighting capability, though they have not yet been quantified. Francis said that thrust vectoring must prove these added advantages because flight capability by itself will probably not buy the technology's way onto modern aircraft. "Of course, pilots certainly don't mind having close-in combat insurance if it doesn't cost too much otherwise," he said.
The list of possible benefits is extensive, said Rodger Mishler, manager of the AVEN (Axisymmetric Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle) programs for General Electric Aircraft Engines in Evendale, Ohio. The added agility, for example, could help planes avoid missiles. Aircraft whose performance is degraded when fitted with external air-to-ground weapons stores could use thrust vectoring to overcome flight limitations in dropping bombs and in maintaining maneuverability despite the load. Takeoff distances could be shortened by rotating the nosewheel up more rapidly with thrust vectoring, which would allow the use of smaller runways. The "wind-over-deck" requirements (that is, the need to generate sufficient relative airspeed) for aircraft carrier launches could also be reduced by using similar techniques.
A less obvious advantage might be fewer fighter aircraft accidents during peacetime. About one fifth of peace-time fighter losses during the past few years, Mishler said, were due to loss of control. Thrust vectoring improves a pilot's ability to recover from any departure from controlled flight, which helps him avoid accidents.
Thrust vectoring could also compensate for battle damage to conventional aerodynamic control surfaces by providing engine-based flight control, Mishler said. Thrust-vectoring technology may eventually allow aircraft designers to shrink or even eliminate radar-reflecting tail surfaces on future aircraft, reducing weight and drag while improving overall performance.
One of the more subtle but significant secondary benefits of thrust-vectoring technology, according to Mishler, is that it allows the pilot to vary the engine nozzle's exhaust exit area independently of the throat area so that optimum thrust expansion ratios can be attained. "Today's engine suffers from a modest compromise in internal engine performance because the nozzle exit area is linked mechanically to the throat in a fixed ratio, meaning you don't get full expansion in all conditions," he said. Thrust-vectoring nozzles can be designed to provide independent exit area control, allowing the designer to optimize installed engine performance.
Despite the growing capabilities of beyond-visual-range missiles, front-line fighter pilots and Pentagon planners agree that
an edge must also be maintained in dog fighting to ensure success in future air combat. "Sophisticated electronic warfare techniques, radar-evading stealth technology, and the need for visual identification all increase the chances of fighters stumbling onto each other in the merge and getting into a knife-fight," said Col. Michael S. Francis of the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) in Arlington, Va.
In a close encounter (within visual range) between two supersonic fighters, both aircraft typically lose speed and height (what pilots call "energy") as they jockey for a firing position, trying to kill before counterlaunch. Much of this maneuvering goes on as each aircraft is oriented at a high angle of attack (AOA), a high-drag condition in which the wings form a steep angle with the oncoming air flow. As airspeed drops, stability is degraded, and conventional aerodynamic control surfaces - flaps - become less effective.
Airfoils lose lift or "stall" at these high angles of attack. "Post-stall" refers to flight conditions in which it becomes suddenly more difficult to maintain control, even for fighters, whose airframes are usually designed to minimize loss of control at high AOAs.
A lesser-known method by which a jet aircraft can modify its attitude regardless of airspeed is by directing the thrust of its jet engine obliquely from the center-line, a technique known as thrust vectoring. "Thrust vectoring is a new fundamental force and moment generator that works at slow speeds and in conditions in which conventional control surfaces don't work," said Francis, who serves as the ARPA manager for the X-31 Enhanced Maneuverability Fighter program, one of several research projects that have recently demonstrated vectored-thrust technology.
Skeptics have claimed that post-stall flight could easily lead to catastrophe. In a one-versus-two dogfight, for example, any excursion to high angles of attack dumps a fighter's energy, potentially leaving the plane a sitting duck. However, studies conducted in recent years by U.S. government agencies including the Air Force, Navy, ARPA, and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, as well as by airframe and aero-engine manufacturers, have shown that thrust-vectoring capability often helps a fighter to prevail in mock engagements. These advanced aircraft can gain dogfight superiority by performing spectacular maneuvers never seen before except on flight-simulation computer screens.
These amazing moves include the J-turn, a technique by which an airplane rapidly reverses direction by pitching up to a high AOA and then quickly swings around about its velocity vector to pull inside an opponent's turn circle, for example. Another maneuver is the helicopter gun attack, a controlled flat spin in which a fighter's nose (and hence, its gun) stays pointed at a turning adversary.
When these maneuvers are skillfully used, planes with post-stall maneuvering capability exhibited remarkably high kill rates and survivability in mock air combat trials. A fighter equipped with vectored thrust, therefore, would have a distinct tactical advantage over a conventional adversary because it could be more aggressive in close encounters by "rating" its nose more quickly toward opponents from almost any attitude.
"Thrust vectoring was very effective in our close-in combat evaluations," said Lester Small, Air Force program manager for the Multi-Axis Thrust Vectoring project. "It gives the pilot a lot more control power, even if a pilot cannot take the offensive, and he can usually threaten adversaries with its nose position, thus forcing the fight." Small, who is based at Wright Laboratories near Dayton, Ohio, added that the pilots were surprised at how fast they could pick up the technique.
"Vectored thrust is no panacea," Small said. "It's just another tool in the pilot's toolbox. You have to be smart in using it, because a plane slows down real fast at high AOA." The toughest thing, it turns out, is to learn how to get in and out of post-stall flight quickly.
There are other benefits of thrust vectoring besides improved dogfighting capability, though they have not yet been quantified. Francis said that thrust vectoring must prove these added advantages because flight capability by itself will probably not buy the technology's way onto modern aircraft. "Of course, pilots certainly don't mind having close-in combat insurance if it doesn't cost too much otherwise," he said.
The list of possible benefits is extensive, said Rodger Mishler, manager of the AVEN (Axisymmetric Vectoring Exhaust Nozzle) programs for General Electric Aircraft Engines in Evendale, Ohio. The added agility, for example, could help planes avoid missiles. Aircraft whose performance is degraded when fitted with external air-to-ground weapons stores could use thrust vectoring to overcome flight limitations in dropping bombs and in maintaining maneuverability despite the load. Takeoff distances could be shortened by rotating the nosewheel up more rapidly with thrust vectoring, which would allow the use of smaller runways. The "wind-over-deck" requirements (that is, the need to generate sufficient relative airspeed) for aircraft carrier launches could also be reduced by using similar techniques.
A less obvious advantage might be fewer fighter aircraft accidents during peacetime. About one fifth of peace-time fighter losses during the past few years, Mishler said, were due to loss of control. Thrust vectoring improves a pilot's ability to recover from any departure from controlled flight, which helps him avoid accidents.
Thrust vectoring could also compensate for battle damage to conventional aerodynamic control surfaces by providing engine-based flight control, Mishler said. Thrust-vectoring technology may eventually allow aircraft designers to shrink or even eliminate radar-reflecting tail surfaces on future aircraft, reducing weight and drag while improving overall performance.
One of the more subtle but significant secondary benefits of thrust-vectoring technology, according to Mishler, is that it allows the pilot to vary the engine nozzle's exhaust exit area independently of the throat area so that optimum thrust expansion ratios can be attained. "Today's engine suffers from a modest compromise in internal engine performance because the nozzle exit area is linked mechanically to the throat in a fixed ratio, meaning you don't get full expansion in all conditions," he said. Thrust-vectoring nozzles can be designed to provide independent exit area control, allowing the designer to optimize installed engine performance.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Hindustan Times
March13, 2005
India to receive MiG-29 from Russia in 2007
India will start receiving the first carrier-based MiG-29K multi-role fighters from Russia in 2007, a year ahead of schedule.
The first batch of few MiG-29KUB would be delivered towards the middle of 2007, in time for Indian Navy to train the first batch of its pilots, a top official of Russian Aircraft building Corporation (RSK), the manufacturers of the MiG range of fighters said.
He said that RSK would deliver Navy's entire order of 16 MiG-29K by 2009. The Russian team is here to finalise the training schedule for the Indian Naval pilots.
While the first batch of naval pilots would be trained in Russia, India is subsequently planning to operate the MiG-29K for training purposes from its shore-based Dabolim airbase in Goa.
Under a Rs 3,256 crore (740 million dollar) deal, signed in January, 2004, Navy is to acquire 12 MiG-29k Single seater combat aircraft and four two-seater MiG-29KUB operational trainers. The deal also includes airborne armaments, maintenance, personnel training, plus the supply of simulators, spare parts and servicing.
The naval version of the MiG-29 is yet to enter service and India would be the launch customer for the multi-role aircraft, which can operate from ski-jump platform. Russian officials said that the fighters would be fully operational by April, 2008, when the Carrier Gorshkov is scheduled to be delivered.
The Naval MiG-29k would field upgraded Zhuk-MF radar and associated systems, which would offer full compatibility with a wide range of Russian as well as Western weapons systems, he said.
He said that Indian and Russian experts were also working out modifications in the multi-role involving moving wing fold inboard to the wing root and folding the tail stabilators to reduce overall stowage space.
This would allow the refurbished Russian carrier to accommodate a full air wing of up to 24 MiG-29ks as well as six Kamov-28 and KA-31 helicopters. The naval fighters would field thrust vectoring engines and the MiG-29k, being acquired by India, would have a range of 2,200 kms.
The aircraft will also feature a fully retractable air-refuelling probe, the official said.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
[quote]RD-33MK TURBOJET ENGINE
for MiG-29K/MiG-35
The RD-33MK “Marine wasp” is an upgraded version of RD-33 engine, which powers MiG-29 fighter. The RD-33MK features the increased thrust in comparison with its predecessor by 7%. At the same time all advantages of the base model remained unchanged.
aircraft flight control without limiting;
high level of stability to external disturbances.
Powered by the new engine the aircraft can takeoff from the aircraft carrier deck and perform combat missions in hot climate conditions.
Klimov JSC began the work on the engine modification in 2001 in the framework of obligations undertaken in accordance with the contract signed by RAC “MiG” and India, which stipulated delivery of MiG-29K fighters for “Admiral Gorshkov” aircraft carrier.
Currently the RD-33MK is flight tested as a part of MiG-29K aircraft. Concurrently the engine undergoes the engine service life tests at Klimov.
The RD-33MK will become the base engine for the further development of the fight aviation engines. The engine can be provided with the thrust vectoring nozzle developed by Klimov, which contributes to the combat efficiency increase by 12-15%.
for MiG-29K/MiG-35
The RD-33MK “Marine wasp” is an upgraded version of RD-33 engine, which powers MiG-29 fighter. The RD-33MK features the increased thrust in comparison with its predecessor by 7%. At the same time all advantages of the base model remained unchanged.
aircraft flight control without limiting;
high level of stability to external disturbances.
Powered by the new engine the aircraft can takeoff from the aircraft carrier deck and perform combat missions in hot climate conditions.
Klimov JSC began the work on the engine modification in 2001 in the framework of obligations undertaken in accordance with the contract signed by RAC “MiG” and India, which stipulated delivery of MiG-29K fighters for “Admiral Gorshkov” aircraft carrier.
Currently the RD-33MK is flight tested as a part of MiG-29K aircraft. Concurrently the engine undergoes the engine service life tests at Klimov.
The RD-33MK will become the base engine for the further development of the fight aviation engines. The engine can be provided with the thrust vectoring nozzle developed by Klimov, which contributes to the combat efficiency increase by 12-15%.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
BLACK PANTHER FLIGHT-8XMIG 29 K/UB –300 KM EAST OF SRI LANKAN COAST –INDIAN OCEAN
Commander Viren Sekhawat leaned back to get rid of the cramps on his shoulder where the 5 point harness was digging into his some what bulky frame .Flying just over 1000 km/he and just 75 ft over the ocean top wasa strenuous game but that was the only way he could make sure he is not spotted by the PLAAN A-50S 400 km due east .
The attack profile called for low level approach at sea level from the flank of the exiting Su-30 MKK group .His target was a small group of 14 aircraft about 60 km straight ahead and at 15000 Ft . There were two formations of six aircraft each with the escorts flying at slightly higher altitude but not much and they were flying at exactly 950 kmph as per the latest data link upgrade from the air battle commander on board the orbiting Phalcon following him at steady 900 kmph. As the distance increased the data transfer speed fell off exponentially and so he had to slow down couple of time to get real time tactical situation update. The distance to target display flashed 70 km and started blinking it was time to break the strict emission control so far maintained and engage the enemy.
BAY WATCH FLIGHT – 1 X A-50 BARIEV A-50 PHALCON – SOME WHERE OVER INDIAN OCEAN
Air commodore Digvijay Singh watched the master tactical plot intently .His primary task was to kill the exiting PLAAN flankers and equally important was not to loose a single of the precious fulcrums which has cost the tax payer close to 50 million dollars apiece and more importantly the highly trained naval aviators who flew them . He has used similar tactics of engagement with sukhois many times in past in simulated war games with IAF sukhois now was the time to see if the tactics actually works in real combat .
- black panther lead – bay watch – initiate attack profile at max climb rate – launch heat seekers only on caged mode –up the -------- (unprintable) backside of those --------(again unprintable) – you are weapons free on all targets –repeat you are weapons free on all targets – no friendlies in the area –good liuck and good hunting –over
- bay watch –black panther lead – copy we are weapons free on all targets –initiating attack profile now –over and out
IAF HEADQUARTERES –DELHI
The chief of air staff for once did not comment as he watched the epic naval battle develop over the ocean. He could ses the 14 enemy aircraft fast exiting the interception and also the vague shadow of the navy Mig 29k s streaking over the wave tops and then the radar repeater image of the friend lies became sharper as they commenced their fuel guzzling gut wrenching climb out right behind the tails of the Chinese flankers . There was no change in the bandits flight profile and he inferred they have not even noticed the super agile small navy fulcrums doing a vertical Charlie right behind their a-- ----.(unprintable)
BLACK PANTHER FLIGHT-8XMIG 29 K/UB –300 KM EAST OF SRILANKAN COAST –INDIAN OCEAN
Commander Viren Sekhawat was trying to stay conscious as the jet strapped to his back rocketed upwards at over 20000 meters per minute and the altitude display became an orange blurr ,the strong push of the twin after burning jets pressed his entrails and heart into the seat and would have killed him for sure if not for the advanced anti gravity suit he was wearing –red rings started forming around his vision frame and he knew he was close to dreaded red out and then it ended as quickly as it started as the auto pilot leveled out at the designated altitude .
As his vision cleared and he adjusted the head up display color to yellow -still radar off he armed all the four R-73 and activated the optical locating system –the image of PLAN flight group formed up –they still have not been alerted by their A-50 but he knew things will change any time soon and they will chage very quickly .He was in no mood for a frontal head to head combat with a latest generation flanker with a far powerful radar and much larger inventory of longer range weapons .
The lead PLAAN flanker changed its flight attitude and the rest followed suit they were now climbing for safer altitude before turning for the unexpected attack from behind .
- black panther flight –lead –launch now and go for the decks ,even as he finished speaking on the throat mike his right hand flashed over the protective cover of the firing button flicking it open and squeezing four time launching two advanced heat seeking missiles at each target including the one in the lead .All along the flight line same thing happened and everyone dived for the ocean in a mad corkscrew to escape the volley of missiles they knew will surely follow .
But it did not happen like that . The sneak attack have confused the PLAAN pilots as they were expecting an early warning from their own A-50 which never came .By the time they got the warning the indian mig 29s were already in firing position and by the time they turned to head the enemy each had atleast 2 missiles closing in .
Six flankers went down ,their powerful electronic counter measure pods was no use to heat seeking missiles fired on caged mode and the engine exhaust at that range to hot and tempting, for missiles seeker head to divert to the mass of flares thrown around to confuse them.
Six PLAAN flankers went down in a spectacular show of fire works, two more were hit but managed to fly out of danger area and limped back home . Six of the flankers escaped the salvo attack and turned on the fast escaping Mig 29K s which were almost down to to the creamy waves of the ocean . But with their powerful radars on full they could still get a lock on four of the escaping bandits and launched a pair of R-77 at each .
Commander Viren Sekhawat cringed as the radar warning receiver blared a sharp warning and the periodic bleeps merged into a continuous screech . He leveled out at 50 ft over sea level and then spun the aircraft on is longitude axis and then pulled the stick all the way forward ,pushing the power lever to max reheat .
The fulcrum pivoted around and suddenly it was not a receding target to the incoming R-77 but some thing which had no velocity at all since the mig 29 was exiting at right angles to the incoming missile without any noticeable change in altitude .The robotic auto pilot of R-77 refused to accept this new data and continued As before slamming the ocean surface at more than thrice the speed of sound as the all the Indian fulcrums escaped unharmed.
In the process the escort Su-30 s got separated from the reaming strike fleet of the PLAN and now it was easier to kill them one at a time .
The second wave of Mig 29K was already in position and waiting just outside the kill envelope of the PLAAN R-77 . In the futile chasing down of the Indian fulcrums they have lost much of their altitude and speed and now they became the prey to the next Mig 29k armed exclusively with R-77 /R-27 .
Commander Viren Sekhawat leaned back to get rid of the cramps on his shoulder where the 5 point harness was digging into his some what bulky frame .Flying just over 1000 km/he and just 75 ft over the ocean top wasa strenuous game but that was the only way he could make sure he is not spotted by the PLAAN A-50S 400 km due east .
The attack profile called for low level approach at sea level from the flank of the exiting Su-30 MKK group .His target was a small group of 14 aircraft about 60 km straight ahead and at 15000 Ft . There were two formations of six aircraft each with the escorts flying at slightly higher altitude but not much and they were flying at exactly 950 kmph as per the latest data link upgrade from the air battle commander on board the orbiting Phalcon following him at steady 900 kmph. As the distance increased the data transfer speed fell off exponentially and so he had to slow down couple of time to get real time tactical situation update. The distance to target display flashed 70 km and started blinking it was time to break the strict emission control so far maintained and engage the enemy.
BAY WATCH FLIGHT – 1 X A-50 BARIEV A-50 PHALCON – SOME WHERE OVER INDIAN OCEAN
Air commodore Digvijay Singh watched the master tactical plot intently .His primary task was to kill the exiting PLAAN flankers and equally important was not to loose a single of the precious fulcrums which has cost the tax payer close to 50 million dollars apiece and more importantly the highly trained naval aviators who flew them . He has used similar tactics of engagement with sukhois many times in past in simulated war games with IAF sukhois now was the time to see if the tactics actually works in real combat .
- black panther lead – bay watch – initiate attack profile at max climb rate – launch heat seekers only on caged mode –up the -------- (unprintable) backside of those --------(again unprintable) – you are weapons free on all targets –repeat you are weapons free on all targets – no friendlies in the area –good liuck and good hunting –over
- bay watch –black panther lead – copy we are weapons free on all targets –initiating attack profile now –over and out
IAF HEADQUARTERES –DELHI
The chief of air staff for once did not comment as he watched the epic naval battle develop over the ocean. He could ses the 14 enemy aircraft fast exiting the interception and also the vague shadow of the navy Mig 29k s streaking over the wave tops and then the radar repeater image of the friend lies became sharper as they commenced their fuel guzzling gut wrenching climb out right behind the tails of the Chinese flankers . There was no change in the bandits flight profile and he inferred they have not even noticed the super agile small navy fulcrums doing a vertical Charlie right behind their a-- ----.(unprintable)
BLACK PANTHER FLIGHT-8XMIG 29 K/UB –300 KM EAST OF SRILANKAN COAST –INDIAN OCEAN
Commander Viren Sekhawat was trying to stay conscious as the jet strapped to his back rocketed upwards at over 20000 meters per minute and the altitude display became an orange blurr ,the strong push of the twin after burning jets pressed his entrails and heart into the seat and would have killed him for sure if not for the advanced anti gravity suit he was wearing –red rings started forming around his vision frame and he knew he was close to dreaded red out and then it ended as quickly as it started as the auto pilot leveled out at the designated altitude .
As his vision cleared and he adjusted the head up display color to yellow -still radar off he armed all the four R-73 and activated the optical locating system –the image of PLAN flight group formed up –they still have not been alerted by their A-50 but he knew things will change any time soon and they will chage very quickly .He was in no mood for a frontal head to head combat with a latest generation flanker with a far powerful radar and much larger inventory of longer range weapons .
The lead PLAAN flanker changed its flight attitude and the rest followed suit they were now climbing for safer altitude before turning for the unexpected attack from behind .
- black panther flight –lead –launch now and go for the decks ,even as he finished speaking on the throat mike his right hand flashed over the protective cover of the firing button flicking it open and squeezing four time launching two advanced heat seeking missiles at each target including the one in the lead .All along the flight line same thing happened and everyone dived for the ocean in a mad corkscrew to escape the volley of missiles they knew will surely follow .
But it did not happen like that . The sneak attack have confused the PLAAN pilots as they were expecting an early warning from their own A-50 which never came .By the time they got the warning the indian mig 29s were already in firing position and by the time they turned to head the enemy each had atleast 2 missiles closing in .
Six flankers went down ,their powerful electronic counter measure pods was no use to heat seeking missiles fired on caged mode and the engine exhaust at that range to hot and tempting, for missiles seeker head to divert to the mass of flares thrown around to confuse them.
Six PLAAN flankers went down in a spectacular show of fire works, two more were hit but managed to fly out of danger area and limped back home . Six of the flankers escaped the salvo attack and turned on the fast escaping Mig 29K s which were almost down to to the creamy waves of the ocean . But with their powerful radars on full they could still get a lock on four of the escaping bandits and launched a pair of R-77 at each .
Commander Viren Sekhawat cringed as the radar warning receiver blared a sharp warning and the periodic bleeps merged into a continuous screech . He leveled out at 50 ft over sea level and then spun the aircraft on is longitude axis and then pulled the stick all the way forward ,pushing the power lever to max reheat .
The fulcrum pivoted around and suddenly it was not a receding target to the incoming R-77 but some thing which had no velocity at all since the mig 29 was exiting at right angles to the incoming missile without any noticeable change in altitude .The robotic auto pilot of R-77 refused to accept this new data and continued As before slamming the ocean surface at more than thrice the speed of sound as the all the Indian fulcrums escaped unharmed.
In the process the escort Su-30 s got separated from the reaming strike fleet of the PLAN and now it was easier to kill them one at a time .
The second wave of Mig 29K was already in position and waiting just outside the kill envelope of the PLAAN R-77 . In the futile chasing down of the Indian fulcrums they have lost much of their altitude and speed and now they became the prey to the next Mig 29k armed exclusively with R-77 /R-27 .
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Is it really possible to fool the seeker of an R-77 with a manouever like that? Never knew that these could be used to actually fool the missile
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Bala Vignesh
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Awesome build up dada... just love the way the conflict is moving... Would love to see this being escalated to a naval conflict in straits of Malacca...
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
^^ Keep going strong Shankar, its a very interesting and entertaining read. Thankfuly you are regular
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Mukesh.Kumar
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Welcome back Shankarda. Was eagerly awaiting 'the return of the king'.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
INDIAN AIR FORCE HEADQUARTERS –DELHI
The chief of air staff looked at the tactical display and did not like what he saw .While the navy jets have very beautifully taken down six PLAAN flankers without a single loss the air battle was far from over . The escorting PLAN flankers have reformed and making a determined attack on the second wave of navy fulcrums launched in the second wave. Surely the navy needs some heavy air support and they needed it quickly. There was a virtual log jam of aircraft waiting to be refueled .With 4 tankers on duty only 12 aircraft could be fuelled at a time and each fuelling took close to 8 minutes some times more depending on the experience and dexterity of pilots taking on the fuel. Port blair air port was now out of operation and additional 4 tankers have been rushed in Chennai to replace the ones on duty for last several hours which themselves are running low on fuel .
Damn the politicians and their slow ways muttered the chief of air staff with just over 24 IL-78 in the entire air force he has already diverted more than 1/3 of his inventory to the battle over Indian Ocean . If one goes down mechanical reason or hostile action the entire operation will be in danger . Thankfully the escorting flankers are doing a great job and a couple of sneak attacks by PLAN Su 30 s was beaten back successfully and the Chinese lost 3 of their in the process all from accurate salvo strike of R-77 from the escorting Indian flankers .
- sie we have preliminary information from the Phalcon 2 – The second group of Chinese strike aircraft have commenced low level run on Car Nic –estimated in 15 minutes
- what assets we have in the area
- sir the full squadron of Lightnings are there but they are some what low on fuel –they were planning to refuel in 30 minutes
- that can wait – alert phalcon commander to vector the full group to car nic defense – close in combat is authorized – that base need be protected at all cost –
- copy that sir –close in combat authorized – diverting Lightning’s to car nic defense
INS VIKRAMADITYA-BLACK PANTHER FLIGHT –360 KM EAST OF SRILANKAN COAST –INDIAN OCEAN
Rear admiral Rao did not even smile as he looked at the radar display deep in the bowels of the carrier .The successful shooting down of six enemy aircraft without a single home side loss was good news but the battle has just begun . The black panthers alpha group needed to be recovered quickly –refueled and re launched
As quickly as possible. Till they are in air the black panther bravo flight will be on their own facing an over whelming odd of about the same number of PLAN flankers who are now baying for revenge . He needed some flanker support atleast from IAF but they were all bogged down in defense of car nic and rest are waiting their turn to refuel .He hoped at least half a dozen flankers will finish fuelling and join the battle with his fulcrums –faster the better .So far no confirmation have come in from the air battle commander aboard Phalcon 1 .The over head speaker came alive as first of the returning Mig 29Ks announced its intention to land
- black panther lead – tower – 150 km out to land –low on fuel
- clear deck for aircraft recovery
- engine room give me max speed
- helsman make course 175
- deck crew clean up the deck immediately
- air defense units to stand down repeat stand down we have friendly incoming
The carrier started rolling as it turned into the swells and came to its new recovery heading.
-Clear deck for hello launch –want both helos out for emergency rescue – incoming aircraft low on fuel and possible battle damage –emergency fire crews on station –
- tower –black panther lead – 35 km out – on glide scope – speed 400 km/hr –altitude 800 meters –rate of descent 100 meters per minute –request clearance to land
- black panther lead –tower –cleared to land – you are authorized to use TVC on landing –over
- cleared to land –copy that –over
The first of the fulcrums landed with a loud thump caught neatly in the arrestor wire strung about the deck .Before even it was pulled back into its designated parking area the second was visible on the horizon and further back and high up was the third .It was busy time for the deck crew that da
The chief of air staff looked at the tactical display and did not like what he saw .While the navy jets have very beautifully taken down six PLAAN flankers without a single loss the air battle was far from over . The escorting PLAN flankers have reformed and making a determined attack on the second wave of navy fulcrums launched in the second wave. Surely the navy needs some heavy air support and they needed it quickly. There was a virtual log jam of aircraft waiting to be refueled .With 4 tankers on duty only 12 aircraft could be fuelled at a time and each fuelling took close to 8 minutes some times more depending on the experience and dexterity of pilots taking on the fuel. Port blair air port was now out of operation and additional 4 tankers have been rushed in Chennai to replace the ones on duty for last several hours which themselves are running low on fuel .
Damn the politicians and their slow ways muttered the chief of air staff with just over 24 IL-78 in the entire air force he has already diverted more than 1/3 of his inventory to the battle over Indian Ocean . If one goes down mechanical reason or hostile action the entire operation will be in danger . Thankfully the escorting flankers are doing a great job and a couple of sneak attacks by PLAN Su 30 s was beaten back successfully and the Chinese lost 3 of their in the process all from accurate salvo strike of R-77 from the escorting Indian flankers .
- sie we have preliminary information from the Phalcon 2 – The second group of Chinese strike aircraft have commenced low level run on Car Nic –estimated in 15 minutes
- what assets we have in the area
- sir the full squadron of Lightnings are there but they are some what low on fuel –they were planning to refuel in 30 minutes
- that can wait – alert phalcon commander to vector the full group to car nic defense – close in combat is authorized – that base need be protected at all cost –
- copy that sir –close in combat authorized – diverting Lightning’s to car nic defense
INS VIKRAMADITYA-BLACK PANTHER FLIGHT –360 KM EAST OF SRILANKAN COAST –INDIAN OCEAN
Rear admiral Rao did not even smile as he looked at the radar display deep in the bowels of the carrier .The successful shooting down of six enemy aircraft without a single home side loss was good news but the battle has just begun . The black panthers alpha group needed to be recovered quickly –refueled and re launched
As quickly as possible. Till they are in air the black panther bravo flight will be on their own facing an over whelming odd of about the same number of PLAN flankers who are now baying for revenge . He needed some flanker support atleast from IAF but they were all bogged down in defense of car nic and rest are waiting their turn to refuel .He hoped at least half a dozen flankers will finish fuelling and join the battle with his fulcrums –faster the better .So far no confirmation have come in from the air battle commander aboard Phalcon 1 .The over head speaker came alive as first of the returning Mig 29Ks announced its intention to land
- black panther lead – tower – 150 km out to land –low on fuel
- clear deck for aircraft recovery
- engine room give me max speed
- helsman make course 175
- deck crew clean up the deck immediately
- air defense units to stand down repeat stand down we have friendly incoming
The carrier started rolling as it turned into the swells and came to its new recovery heading.
-Clear deck for hello launch –want both helos out for emergency rescue – incoming aircraft low on fuel and possible battle damage –emergency fire crews on station –
- tower –black panther lead – 35 km out – on glide scope – speed 400 km/hr –altitude 800 meters –rate of descent 100 meters per minute –request clearance to land
- black panther lead –tower –cleared to land – you are authorized to use TVC on landing –over
- cleared to land –copy that –over
The first of the fulcrums landed with a loud thump caught neatly in the arrestor wire strung about the deck .Before even it was pulled back into its designated parking area the second was visible on the horizon and further back and high up was the third .It was busy time for the deck crew that da
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rohanldsouza
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
This is my First Post. Have been following this for a while.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU....my weekend is made.
Keep the good times coming.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU....my weekend is made.
Keep the good times coming.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
It seems that I have been wasting money on Tom Clancy books so far. Should have found this thread earlier.. Hats off..
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
I missed the earlier part of this thread. where are the chinese flankers staging from - seems to me putting a significant force near sri lanka and hoping to recover them back in hainan/yunnan would need a tremendous amt of PLAAF tanker logistics orbiting over myanmar and the gulf of thailand?
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
A bit late Bala, but please send Vivek's scenarios to attila7185 at gmail dot com.
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Chandragupta
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
I think somebody uploaded the whole document, the link is posted a few pages back.Karmasura wrote:A bit late Bala, but please send Vivek's scenarios to attila7185 at gmail dot com.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Ah thanks Chandragupta.. got it.
Singhaji, the flankers have flown from Sanya air base, Mischief Reef, South China sea.
Singhaji, the flankers have flown from Sanya air base, Mischief Reef, South China sea.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
thats 2500km minimum assuming a as-the-crow-flies path across vietnam, thailand and myanmar.
thats well over the 1500km combat radius of the flanker and nearly equal to the ferry range (without weapons) of the flanker.
so they would presumably need a waiting fleet of tankers over myanmar to top up before launching their
run on SL and andamans and another refueling on the way home to have any chance of making it to sanya.
our difficulties are being mentioned in terms of airbases knocked out, lack of refuelers, limited time on station,
afterburner use limiting combat persistence, limited sortie rates of vikramaditya etc.
I do hope the story in future also takes into account their difficulties in launching and recovering such a large
and multi pronged strike package.
to me it seems entire refueling assets of PLAAF and PLAN would be needed - launching and returning from
bases in yunnan and sanya/guangdong itself ... not to conducive to a sneak attack by a rogue PLA faction keeping the big pandas in beijing in the dark.
the political and strategic framework of the story needs to be solid, although the troops will love the A2A stuff most surely
minor nitpicks though...pls carry on.
thats well over the 1500km combat radius of the flanker and nearly equal to the ferry range (without weapons) of the flanker.
so they would presumably need a waiting fleet of tankers over myanmar to top up before launching their
run on SL and andamans and another refueling on the way home to have any chance of making it to sanya.
our difficulties are being mentioned in terms of airbases knocked out, lack of refuelers, limited time on station,
afterburner use limiting combat persistence, limited sortie rates of vikramaditya etc.
I do hope the story in future also takes into account their difficulties in launching and recovering such a large
and multi pronged strike package.
to me it seems entire refueling assets of PLAAF and PLAN would be needed - launching and returning from
bases in yunnan and sanya/guangdong itself ... not to conducive to a sneak attack by a rogue PLA faction keeping the big pandas in beijing in the dark.
the political and strategic framework of the story needs to be solid, although the troops will love the A2A stuff most surely
minor nitpicks though...pls carry on.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
LIGHTNING FLIGHT -24XSU-30 MKI MK3 -40 KM NORTH EAST OF CAR NICOBAR AIR FORCE STATION
Wing commander Promd was filling tired and was looking forward to a short break when he could stretch the legs and have a can of chilled Pepsi always available in the de brief room at Car Nic but the primary alert from the Phalcon changed all that wish very quickly
- lima one –bay watch – enemy attack on way – 200 km south east car nic – speed 850 kmph-altitude 50 meters – you are cleared to engage repeat cleared to engage on all targets – what is your exact fuel status
- copy that bay watch –bad guys inwards –will smoke them alright- fuel ok for 30 minutes plus – get a pair of Midas waiting please – weapons free on all targets – are we free to engage close up
- lima one – you are free on close combat – we do not want any incursion on car nic – ground defenses on standby –try engage atleast 100 klicks out to give the sam guys enough play room over
- bay watch –lima one – message understood –engaging now – shall stay out of sam envelope –over
- lime one to lima flight – you heard guys –lets go burn some slanty butts .No restrictions this time use all you got –not a single bandit to get through –over
The 24 sukhois spread out in a single line and dived for the incoming Chinese flankers with their powerful Irbis radars still on stand by mode .They will light up only when at much lower altitude just before launching the first missile salvo at the low flying bandits .Pramod did not believe in playing fair or giving unnecessary warning to those who he intend to kill anyway
Wing commander Promd was filling tired and was looking forward to a short break when he could stretch the legs and have a can of chilled Pepsi always available in the de brief room at Car Nic but the primary alert from the Phalcon changed all that wish very quickly
- lima one –bay watch – enemy attack on way – 200 km south east car nic – speed 850 kmph-altitude 50 meters – you are cleared to engage repeat cleared to engage on all targets – what is your exact fuel status
- copy that bay watch –bad guys inwards –will smoke them alright- fuel ok for 30 minutes plus – get a pair of Midas waiting please – weapons free on all targets – are we free to engage close up
- lima one – you are free on close combat – we do not want any incursion on car nic – ground defenses on standby –try engage atleast 100 klicks out to give the sam guys enough play room over
- bay watch –lima one – message understood –engaging now – shall stay out of sam envelope –over
- lime one to lima flight – you heard guys –lets go burn some slanty butts .No restrictions this time use all you got –not a single bandit to get through –over
The 24 sukhois spread out in a single line and dived for the incoming Chinese flankers with their powerful Irbis radars still on stand by mode .They will light up only when at much lower altitude just before launching the first missile salvo at the low flying bandits .Pramod did not believe in playing fair or giving unnecessary warning to those who he intend to kill anyway
The first of these is its massive radar bay, capable of fitting a 1 metre class X-band phased array antenna. In the long range BVR combat game, radar range is a key factor and for any given radar technology, the larger the aperture the better. While the current N011M/ME BARS (Panther) and Pero (Plume) upgrades use passive array technology which delivers less peak power than competing active arrays (AESA) it is only a matter of time before NIIP and Phazotron adapt commercial GaAs MMIC technology (98% of the total GaAs chip market) to build an AESA variant competitive against the AESAs in the latest Western evolved 3rd Gen fighters.
With similar TR (Transmit-Receive) module performance, the fighter with the largest aperture size wins in this game - for instance the N011M has around twice the aperture size of the JSF AESA and F/A-18E/F's APG-79 and even with inferior TR module technology will be highly competitive. It is worth noting that India is only the fourth nation worldwide to field a phased array equipped aigile air combat fighter, after France, the US and Russia.
Electrical power and liquid cooling have been issues for the integration of AESAs in Western fighters, especially so with smaller types like the F/A-18E/F, F-16E/F and Joint Strike Fighter. This is not an issue given the sheer size of the Flanker.
While the existing N011M has limitations in its older technology back end processing, the future is the path India has followed, retrofitting third party hardware with better performance than the Russian processor hardware. With widely available commodity processor chips in the 1 to 2 GHz class, we can expect to see many other Sukhoi users emulate the Indians in coming years, be it in MLUs or new build aircraft.
The baseline N011M radar uses a vertically polarised 0.9 metre diameter aperture hybrid phased array, with individual per element receive path low noise amplifiers delivering a noise figure cited at 3 dB, similar to an AESA. Three receiver channels are used, one presumably for sidelobe blanking and ECCM. The EGSP-6A transmitter uses a single Chelnok Travelling Wave Tube, available in variants with peak power ratings between 4 and 7 kiloWatts, and CW illumination at 1 kW. Cited detection range for a closing target (High PRF) is up to 76 NMI, for a receding target up to 50 NMI. The phased array can electronically steer the mainlobe through +/-70 degrees in azimuth and +/-40 degrees in elevation. The whole array can be further steered mechanically. Polarisation can be switched by 90 degrees for surface search modes.
The follow on to the BARS is the new Irbis-E (Snow Leopard) hybrid phased array, in development since 2004 and planned for the Su-35 block upgrade, and as a block upgrade or new build radar for other Flanker variants. The Irbis-E is an evolution of the BARS design, but significantly more powerful. While the hybrid phased array antenna is retained, the noise figure is slightly worse at 3.5 dB, but the receiver has four rather than three discrete channels. The biggest change is in the EGSP-27 transmitter, where the single 7 kiloWatt peak power rated Chelnok TWT is replaced with a pair of 10 kiloWatt peak power rated Chelnok tubes, ganged to provide a total peak power rating of 20 kiloWatts. The radar is cited at an average power rating of 5 kiloWatts, with 2 kiloWatts CW rating for illumination. NIIP claim twice the bandwidth and improved frequency agility over the BARS, and better ECCM capability. The Irbis-E has new Solo-35.01 digital signal processor hardware and Solo-35.02 data processor, but retains receiver hardware, the master oscillator and exciter of the BARS. A prototype has been in flight test since late 2005.
The performance increase in the Irbis-E is commensurate with the increased transmitter rating, and NIIP claim a detection range for a closing 3 square metre coaltitude target of 190 - 215 NMI (350-400 km), and the ability to detect a closing 0.01 square metre target at ~50 NMI (90 km). In Track While Scan (TWS) mode the radar can handle 30 targets simultaneously, and provide guidance for two simultaneous shots using a semi-active missile like the R-27 series, or eight simultaneous shots using an active missile like the RVV-AE/R-77 or ramjet RVV-AE-PD/R-77M. The Irbis-E was clearly designed to support the ramjet RVV-AE-PD/R-77M missile in BVR combat against reduced signature Western fighters like the Block II Super Hornet or Eurofighter Typhoon. Curiously, NIIP do not claim superiority over the F-22A's APG-77 AESA, yet their cited performance figures exceed the public (and no doubt heavily sanitised) range figures for the APG-77.
The existing N011M series lacks a Low Probability of Intercept capability, in part due to antenna bandwidth limits and in part due to processor limitations. This is likely to change over the coming decade, with the Irbis-E, as customers demand an ability to defeat or degrade Western ESM equipment and the technology to do this becomes more accessible.
The N012 tail warning radar has been reported to be part of the Su-30MKI suite and is offered as a retrofit to other models.
In terms of block upgrades, of the two competing radar houses in Russia, NIIP (http://www.niip.ru/) and Phazotron, the former has been the most active of recent. A block upgrade package, designated 'Panda' was recently developed for the baseline N-001-01 radar carried by Su-27S/SK. The first stage is the N-001V back end upgrade using C/C++ COTS software and a Ts-100 processor.
Of more interest however is a low cost phased array block upgrade package designated Pero ('Plume'), designed jointly with Ryazan GRPZ. This lightweight design avoids the cost and complexity of the backplane fed BARS (N-011M) phased array, instead using a space (optical) feed scheme, and reflective rather than transmissive phase elements, a technique used with the 64N6E Big Bird SAM system radar. The design incorporates the phase element array, and a strut supported boom which mounts the X-band waveguide and radiating horn. Cost is comparable to the existing Su-27S/SK Cassegrain antenna, weight is lower. The launch customer is the RuAF, but reports indicate one of the two prototypes was sent to China for evaluation. The Pero will provide the beam steering agility of modern Western AESAs, but with lower cost and transmit power ratings, and is likely to appear in regional MLUs later this decade. An open question is whether a future Pero based block upgrade would include the 20 kiloWatt Irbis-E transmitter, as engineering the space feed for a 20 kiloWatt rated transmitter is neither difficult nor expensive. While a 20 kiloWatt Pero system would have inferior receiver sensitivity due to the space feed loss, compared to the BARS hybrid array, it would be significantly cheaper to build and deploy en masse.
Another attractive design feature of the Flankers is the large IRST housing, which can fit an aperture larger than competing Western IRST systems - the more photons the IRST can capture, the greater its detection range potential. The baseline OLS-27 IRST can scan a 120x75 degree field of regard, and cover as field of view as narrow as 3x3 degrees but has poor sensitivity with a head on detection ranges cca 8 nautical miles. The integrated laser rangefinder is effective to about 1.5 nautical miles. Specifications for the OLS-30 have not been disclosed - it is known that further development is under way on an IRST/FLIR design similar in concept to the Eurofighter's Pirate system. As with radars, IRST and FLIR aperture size matters, and the Sukhoi is in a commanding position with the existing OLS-27/30 package. With commercial technologies such as Quantum Well longwave/multiband imagers of 800x600 pixel resolution in the EU market, it is only a matter of time before this technology finds its way into an OLS-30/31 derivative. Current US IRSTs using older MCT imaging arrays have detected fighters at distances of many tens of miles.
The advent of HDTV compatible CCD and CMOS daylight imaging devices in COTS applications opens up the possibility of a dual band derivative of the OLS-27/30 package, longer term.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
INDIAN AIR FORCE HEADQUARTERS –DELHI
The chief of air staff leaned forward on his chair as he watched the lightning squadron executed the classic much practiced strike on the low flying intruders. They have spread out in a single horizontal line exactly one km apart and 500 meter vertical separation like a giant staircase in the sky and then in one go the whole stair case toppled forward at the incoming bandits switching on the bandits for a prefect look down shoot down BVR shot
He knew after the BVR salvo have been launched ,almost 3 missiles per incoming aircraft the kill probability is almost 100% but there will be few lucky bandits and then the true super agile capability of the Indian mkis will come to the fore front .He knew no aircraft in the world even the famed f-22 can outperform a Su 30 MKI in within visual range combat with guns and short range heat seeking missiles and all the Indian aircraft were in fact equipped with most advanced R-74 missiles but very few knew about it even within the air force .
The chief of air staff leaned forward on his chair as he watched the lightning squadron executed the classic much practiced strike on the low flying intruders. They have spread out in a single horizontal line exactly one km apart and 500 meter vertical separation like a giant staircase in the sky and then in one go the whole stair case toppled forward at the incoming bandits switching on the bandits for a prefect look down shoot down BVR shot
He knew after the BVR salvo have been launched ,almost 3 missiles per incoming aircraft the kill probability is almost 100% but there will be few lucky bandits and then the true super agile capability of the Indian mkis will come to the fore front .He knew no aircraft in the world even the famed f-22 can outperform a Su 30 MKI in within visual range combat with guns and short range heat seeking missiles and all the Indian aircraft were in fact equipped with most advanced R-74 missiles but very few knew about it even within the air force .
GWALIOR: IAF pilots flying their 'top-gun' Sukhoi-30MKI fighter jets are developing a habit of simply outgunning their rivals. After 'splashing'
F-15Cs and F-16s, they have now blown the British Tornados out of the clear blue skies.
Though neither IAF nor Royal Air Force were scrambling to thrash the other in Indra-Dhanush air combat exercise, fighter boys will remain fighter boys, eager to notch up 'kills' even if they are achieved in mock battles.
"The British should have brought their new Euro-fighter Typhoons. The Tornado-F3 air defence fighters were no match for our Sukhoi-30MKIs, which performed exceptionally well in BVR (beyond-visual range) combat," said an IAF pilot.
With a comprehensive package of super-manoeuvrability and firepower, the two-seater Sukhoi-30MKIs were a cut above the rest in the just-concluded 10-day joint exercise, the first such held between India and UK in 43 years.
"Sukhoi-30MKI is our golden goose. We don't want to expose all its eggs to even friendly forces. We did not exploit its spectrum of capabilities. For instance, we did not open all operating modes of its radars," said a senior IAF officer.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
LIGHTNING FLIGHT -24XSU-30 MKI MK3 -5KM KM NORTH EAST OF CAR NICOBAR AIR FORCE STATION
Wing commander Promod his central display which have been now configured to show the radar on air to air mode and a small window at the bottom showed the weapon status . He was carrying a total of 6 R-77 missiles for the BVR shot and 3 of them had infra red seeker head .
He knew for a low flying target and particularly against a cold ocean background the Heat seeking R-77 will be more effective for a tail shot and standard active radar ones fro a head on shot where the high relative velocity between his and target aircraft will make the target acquisition more effective and expand its kill envelope
He quickly selected one heat seeking R-77 and one radar homing missile the standard active radar one he will launch first followed by the heat seeking unit as the target aircraft starts attempts to evade the first missile. He expected his team mates will do the same and that meant one salvo of 24 R-77 with RF seekers followed by another salvo of R-77 with liquid cooled infra red seeker and both variety armed with laser proximity fuse for limited area kill capability.
-lima flight –lima lead –stand by to fire on my command go active now
- going active – awaiting fire command came in the confirmation from his wing man followed by all the other pilots
Pramod checked his weapon status display once again –it was all green meaning he had all the 14 missiles operational and two of the missile icons were blinking indicating they were armed and ready to launch the seeker head of the infra guided missile was already getting cooled to enhance its tracking range and the RF guided one was already emitting and target data down load from the attack computer on board have been complete ‘
He tightened his straps and flicked open the protective cover over fire button –same action he knew was repeated in all the 24 aircraft of the squadron and suddenly it was a very unhealthy place for the incoming bandits even if they were trying their best to skim the wave tops.
As he pressed the fire button twice one by one the pair of R-77 dropped calmly into the slip stream nose down and ignited their tails after a delay of exactly 3 seconds ,cork screwed in to a tight turn as it acquired the target and the on board auto pilot guided the fins slightly adjusting its intercept vector and then the second missile acquired the target also as the PLAN flanker sensed the missile lock on her radar and turned to an escape vector base on warning from threat receiver though their inferior air search radar was still not in a position to launch a missile at the Indian aircraft formation .
Through out the Indian flight line each aircraft acted exactly the same way-result of years of training which almost saw 18 su-30k being almost scrapped in the early days and soon the sky was filled with 48 missiles flying at nearly 3 times the speed of sound at the approaching PLAN flankers 16 of which was heavily loaded with air to ground ordnance and rest eight on escort duty.
Very soon orange flowers began to bloom over the dark ocean surface .Pramod could count 7 from his position but confirmation of kill came in from other sectors and finally the air battle commander confirmed a total of 11 kills in the first salvo still no Indian loss but now the scene became chaotic as the remaining Chinese aircraft li their after burner bored forward with full afterburner and closed the radar coverage advantage and launched their own salvo of R- 77 at a range less than 50 km .
And it was sure murder this time on the Indians , as they dispersed all over the sky two salvos of 14 R-77 missiles were at them and the bloody price of the war had to be paid even if you are better trained or equipped . Three Su-30 mki went down in first salvo, they were too slow to react to the sudden on slaught and one more went down in the second salvo
The tables turned once again as 20 remaining Indian Su-30 engaged reheat – paired off and attacked individual PLAN flankers in the skies over white sand beaches of Car Nicobar.. The PLAN pilots just did not stand a chance against such a numerical superiority and when the full capability of the mkis thrust vectoring engines came into play .One by one they were shot out of the sky mostly by the heat seeking R-74 s but also 2 of them by gun shots up the guts .The beautiful beach was soon littered with smoking ruins of the invading fleet .Most of the PLAN aircraft crashed on the shallow water and about half of the pilots could eject successful and as they came floating down coast guard boats were waiting to rescue and ship them out to mainland quickly.
The battle for Car Nicobar was quickly over .
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-
Wing commander Promod his central display which have been now configured to show the radar on air to air mode and a small window at the bottom showed the weapon status . He was carrying a total of 6 R-77 missiles for the BVR shot and 3 of them had infra red seeker head .
He knew for a low flying target and particularly against a cold ocean background the Heat seeking R-77 will be more effective for a tail shot and standard active radar ones fro a head on shot where the high relative velocity between his and target aircraft will make the target acquisition more effective and expand its kill envelope
He quickly selected one heat seeking R-77 and one radar homing missile the standard active radar one he will launch first followed by the heat seeking unit as the target aircraft starts attempts to evade the first missile. He expected his team mates will do the same and that meant one salvo of 24 R-77 with RF seekers followed by another salvo of R-77 with liquid cooled infra red seeker and both variety armed with laser proximity fuse for limited area kill capability.
-lima flight –lima lead –stand by to fire on my command go active now
- going active – awaiting fire command came in the confirmation from his wing man followed by all the other pilots
Pramod checked his weapon status display once again –it was all green meaning he had all the 14 missiles operational and two of the missile icons were blinking indicating they were armed and ready to launch the seeker head of the infra guided missile was already getting cooled to enhance its tracking range and the RF guided one was already emitting and target data down load from the attack computer on board have been complete ‘
He tightened his straps and flicked open the protective cover over fire button –same action he knew was repeated in all the 24 aircraft of the squadron and suddenly it was a very unhealthy place for the incoming bandits even if they were trying their best to skim the wave tops.
Pramod first pushed the power lever full forward past the reheat gates and the powerful twin engines pushed the aircraft into his back and his guts were literally quashed against the set as the flanker accelerated past the sound barrier and the indicated air speed was touching 1450 kmph good enough for a long range missile releaseFlight Readers Chose Su-30МКI by Irkut Corporation Over American 5th-Gen Fighter (edited)
(Source: Irkut Joint Stock Corp. issued December 4, 2008)
In July-August 2008, Su-30MKI fighters of the Indian AF participated in the international “Red Flag” exercise in Nevada, USA, along with fighters from US and France’s air force. In the course of EX Indian pilots flew multi-purpose fighters Su-30МКI produced by JSC Scientific-Production Corporation Irkut.
The EX results are widely discussed in the world aerospace media. Well-deserved success of the Su-30МКI is endorsed by its outstanding flight performance and combat abilities. It became the first serially produced fighter in the world to sport super-maneuverability, as well as the first Russian combat aircraft exported with the ESA radar.
The Su-30MKI development is the result of cooperation between Irkut Corporation that initiated and led the project, Sukhoi Design Bureau and other Russian and Indian enterprises. The Indian airmen played an important role in defining the aircraft configuration by ordering the fighter to surpass any known combat aircraft at that moment.
The Su-30MKI development and manufacturing program has no analogues in the history of Russia’s military-technical cooperation with foreign countries. The renowned Su-30MKI family fighters account for over 15% of Russia’s armament export.
Currently, Irkut Corporation implements a number of contracts for the Su-30МКI delivery valued at around 5 billion USD. The Indian Air Force ordered about 250 of these fighters with over 150 already delivered. Besides Su-30-MKIs in fly-away condition Irkut Corporation supplies technical kits for their licensed assembling to India’s major aircraft manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.
The aircraft’s high combat efficiency and positive experience of Indo-Russian cooperation within the scope of this program prompted Malaysian and Algerian Air Force to order fighters based on the Su-30MKI configuration. A number of other countries consider procuring the Su-30MKIs.
As Irkut President Oleg Demchenko highlights, “Joint work on the Su-30MKI is a brilliant example of India’s ability to invest in increasing a particular aircraft’s potential by using indigenous technologies and know-how first and foremost in the avionics domain. While implementing this project we have proceeded from the aircraft direct supplies and their license production/hi-tech transfer to the virtual cooperation.”
In November 2008, the competent British “Flight” magazine offered their web-site visitors to pick the best fighter from the listed Su-30МКI, F-22 and F-15. Russian fighter was voted the best by 59% of visitors. American 5th-generation F-22 got 37% of votes. The USAF base fighter F-15 was favored by only 4% of respondents.
-ends-
08/12/2008
- lima flight –lima lead –commencing sequential weapon release at ma speed – on counts 3 2 1 now
As he pressed the fire button twice one by one the pair of R-77 dropped calmly into the slip stream nose down and ignited their tails after a delay of exactly 3 seconds ,cork screwed in to a tight turn as it acquired the target and the on board auto pilot guided the fins slightly adjusting its intercept vector and then the second missile acquired the target also as the PLAN flanker sensed the missile lock on her radar and turned to an escape vector base on warning from threat receiver though their inferior air search radar was still not in a position to launch a missile at the Indian aircraft formation .
Through out the Indian flight line each aircraft acted exactly the same way-result of years of training which almost saw 18 su-30k being almost scrapped in the early days and soon the sky was filled with 48 missiles flying at nearly 3 times the speed of sound at the approaching PLAN flankers 16 of which was heavily loaded with air to ground ordnance and rest eight on escort duty.
Very soon orange flowers began to bloom over the dark ocean surface .Pramod could count 7 from his position but confirmation of kill came in from other sectors and finally the air battle commander confirmed a total of 11 kills in the first salvo still no Indian loss but now the scene became chaotic as the remaining Chinese aircraft li their after burner bored forward with full afterburner and closed the radar coverage advantage and launched their own salvo of R- 77 at a range less than 50 km .
And it was sure murder this time on the Indians , as they dispersed all over the sky two salvos of 14 R-77 missiles were at them and the bloody price of the war had to be paid even if you are better trained or equipped . Three Su-30 mki went down in first salvo, they were too slow to react to the sudden on slaught and one more went down in the second salvo
The tables turned once again as 20 remaining Indian Su-30 engaged reheat – paired off and attacked individual PLAN flankers in the skies over white sand beaches of Car Nicobar.. The PLAN pilots just did not stand a chance against such a numerical superiority and when the full capability of the mkis thrust vectoring engines came into play .One by one they were shot out of the sky mostly by the heat seeking R-74 s but also 2 of them by gun shots up the guts .The beautiful beach was soon littered with smoking ruins of the invading fleet .Most of the PLAN aircraft crashed on the shallow water and about half of the pilots could eject successful and as they came floating down coast guard boats were waiting to rescue and ship them out to mainland quickly.
The battle for Car Nicobar was quickly over .
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
brilliant as always Shankar Da !!
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RamaY
- BRF Oldie
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Great Shankar daa..
So total losses were 11 first round + 16 2nd round = 27 MKMs Vs 4+4 = 8 MKIs?
I am so dumb, I cant count
So total losses were 11 first round + 16 2nd round = 27 MKMs Vs 4+4 = 8 MKIs?
I am so dumb, I cant count
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Bala Vignesh
- BRF Oldie
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
now that the diversionary attack on Car Nicobar is finished, with Chinese getting a solid beating, what's the status on the maldives front??? Have the paki's arrived at the Maldives shoreline???
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
They would learn the lesson from Chinese, call it day and return back to Karachi.. but wait.. we want to see Western Naval command as well.Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
I'm not sure if missiles can be released when the aircraft is supersonic. From my recollection, F-22 is the only one which can do that and their control s/w had to be specially qualified to do that.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
How come the chinese A-50s missed the Indian Flanker charge? Or am I missing something from the scenario..?
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
that is incorrectJTull wrote:I'm not sure if missiles can be released when the aircraft is supersonic. From my recollection, F-22 is the only one which can do that and their control s/w had to be specially qualified to do that.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
cool namereally_bored wrote:How come the chinese A-50s missed the Indian Flanker charge? Or am I missing something from the scenario..?
Well the A50 I guess would get its due in time.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Care to elaborate?Nihat wrote:that is incorrectJTull wrote:I'm not sure if missiles can be released when the aircraft is supersonic. From my recollection, F-22 is the only one which can do that and their control s/w had to be specially qualified to do that.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
^^^^^
The F-22 has internal weapons bay where the missiles are carried. The aircraft has to eject the missile out before motor ignition. Hence, special qualification trials were required. Anyways, a new aircraft has to be certified for weapons release in different flight regimes. A/cs upto 4 gen launch A2A missiles from wing mounted rails or drop them into the slipstream first before motor ignition. This also requires qualification trials. Eg, The Su-30 will have to go supersonic in order to fire its air launched Brahmos.
The F-22 has internal weapons bay where the missiles are carried. The aircraft has to eject the missile out before motor ignition. Hence, special qualification trials were required. Anyways, a new aircraft has to be certified for weapons release in different flight regimes. A/cs upto 4 gen launch A2A missiles from wing mounted rails or drop them into the slipstream first before motor ignition. This also requires qualification trials. Eg, The Su-30 will have to go supersonic in order to fire its air launched Brahmos.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
iirc for one thing, the Mig25 had an ability to release a nuclear gravity bomb at supersonic speed from 65000ft.
mainly I guess the danger is, the missile / bomb might "float up" if dropped passively off the pylon and hit
the fuselage. the f22 has some kinda rod to push it fast away from the bay before release.
AAMs fly hot off the pylon dont they?
only heavier missiles ASMs and LACMs seem to drop 30ft off the pylon and a rope activates their engine to prevent wing damage.
for AAMs we should not face this issue...provided the adder/derby/astra flies hot off all pylons. its not feasible for conformal inline fuselage pylons where the rear of 1st AAMs is pointing right at the nose of the 2nd one.
mainly I guess the danger is, the missile / bomb might "float up" if dropped passively off the pylon and hit
the fuselage. the f22 has some kinda rod to push it fast away from the bay before release.
AAMs fly hot off the pylon dont they?
only heavier missiles ASMs and LACMs seem to drop 30ft off the pylon and a rope activates their engine to prevent wing damage.
for AAMs we should not face this issue...provided the adder/derby/astra flies hot off all pylons. its not feasible for conformal inline fuselage pylons where the rear of 1st AAMs is pointing right at the nose of the 2nd one.
Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
If there are some references I'd appreciate as it is an interesting topic.
I doubt that MKI will be able to go supersonic with a bulky missile like Brahmos let alone release it supersonically. There are absolutely no references to such a capability on google.
To be honest i can't google any reference to supersonic release of air to air missiles. This link mentions ground attack munitions and there are some referenced to Raptor. That's about it.
I started this conversation because I remember when f-22 came about, the thing that struck me was the description of what means to have supercruise ability. One of the features often emphasised was ability to release air to air missiles in BVR mode while still supersonic and then using TV to turn around and leaving the area before the aircraft is detected (opening the missile bay while supersonic is definitely interesting as well).
I doubt that MKI will be able to go supersonic with a bulky missile like Brahmos let alone release it supersonically. There are absolutely no references to such a capability on google.
To be honest i can't google any reference to supersonic release of air to air missiles. This link mentions ground attack munitions and there are some referenced to Raptor. That's about it.
I started this conversation because I remember when f-22 came about, the thing that struck me was the description of what means to have supercruise ability. One of the features often emphasised was ability to release air to air missiles in BVR mode while still supersonic and then using TV to turn around and leaving the area before the aircraft is detected (opening the missile bay while supersonic is definitely interesting as well).
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Devesh Rawal
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Re: Possible Indian Military Scenarios - XII
Here you go (google links):
Supersonic launch of AIM-9 from F-22 (2002):
http://www.f22-raptor.com/about/chronology.html
Testing of the AIM-120 AMRAAM (1987):
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/amraam.htm
1971 War account on BR:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Histo ... /Soni.html
Supersonic launch of AIM-9 from F-22 (2002):
http://www.f22-raptor.com/about/chronology.html
Testing of the AIM-120 AMRAAM (1987):
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/amraam.htm
1971 War account on BR:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Histo ... /Soni.html