Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 16 Jan 2010 21:29

^^
Read "The Ultimate Sniper". Very interesting read which will answer all your questions about sniping and more.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 16 Jan 2010 22:51

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Hi,

I am researching a story on sniper teams. What would be a good source of information to start with for:

One fine gent in the CT and COIN suggests our armed forces should adopt from Hollywood

, however seriously Discovery Channel has a series running on it.

anand_sankar · Post by **anand_sankar** » 18 Jan 2010 11:53

Don't know how many noticed this on Saturday (Jan 16) evening.

An IAF OSA-AK-1 SAM system (launcher, loading vehicle, command vehicle, et al...) was parked near Patparganj, on the highway to Ghaziabad in Delhi. Huddled around were quite a few red-faced IAF personnel and a bemused Delhi police patrol vehicle. They were trying their best to keep crowds away from the vehicles.

It looks like the system was destined for the R-Day parade, but developed some hitch. Guess, it had come from Hindon and they were trying to take it back but it broke down anyway. Clearly no one in the huddle was in a mood for conversation with a journalist. The vehicles were spanking clean and had layers of fresh paint on them, which you could smell a mile away. Too bad I wasn't carrying my camera to shoot a few pictures.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 20 Jan 2010 11:26

How do pilots relieve themselves on long, say 10 hour flights? Or do they just uh, hold?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 20 Jan 2010 11:35

Huggies diapers

Vyas · Post by **Vyas** » 20 Jan 2010 12:18

Can someone provide me information about DURGA (Directionally Unrestricted Ray-Gun Array) and KALI (Kinetic Attack Loitering Interceptor) ? Last I heard they didn't get further than the drawing board, but in light of recent ASAT test by the Chinese is there any chance of reviving them or one of them?

Thanks,
V.

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 20 Jan 2010 12:34

Vyas wrote:....KALI (Kinetic Attack Loitering Interceptor)...

That is not the correct abbreviation for KALI. It is Kilo Ampere Linear Injector

Very little information is available on their status.

Perhaps gurus with divya dristhi can shed some light.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 20 Jan 2010 12:55

Carl_T wrote:How do pilots relieve themselves on long, say 10 hour flights? Or do they just uh, hold?

It is called a Urine Collection Device http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_collection_device
You can buy one for yourself state-side if you plan to go on long trips. http://www.nycib.org/nycib/product.html This one turns the pilot's pee into a gel like substance on contact, so that it doesn't slosh around in the bag. It also releases a pleasant scent at the same time as the gel reaction is happening. USAF generally feeds its pilots high protein diets before flights, so that #2 isn't produced as much. If the pilot really needs to go #2, they go in the suit.

Ben Rich, who later headed the Skunk Works, mentioned in his book that his first patent was for a little nichrome wire that heated the funnel of the Urine Elimination tube in Lockheed airplanes. The problem was that military aircraft flew at high altitudes where the temperatures were very low and people's mijjiles were sticking to the funnel

and made peeing into them very painful. His nichrome wire design allowed the metal funnel to heat up, thereby making him an unknown hero among military pilots. Since the cold war was on at this time, his patent was classified as Top Secret.

The Russian Su-34 is reputed to have a small kitchen and toilet located behind the pilot and navigator's seats.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Jan 2010 08:05

krishnan wrote:Huggies diapers

Maybe not Huggies. But adult diapers anyway.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 21 Jan 2010 08:53

The IAF is understood to have offered to liaise with defence public sector company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Bangalore, to help modernise Bangladesh’s MiG-29 aircraft and Mi-17 helicopters.

Mayuresh · Post by **Mayuresh** » 21 Jan 2010 09:22

Team,

A newbie (i.e. yours truly) is going to attend the Republic day parade on Tuesday. Is there any last minute advice from those who have already been there done that?

I know cameras, mobile phones and other electronic devices are not allowed due to security reasons. Rumour has it that after the parade, they allow you to see the weapon systems at close range. Hopefully, we should be able to see them without any hassles. Lets see if i can talk to the soldiers, plan to ask them why they prefer the T-72/T-90 to our Arjuns.

Also, due to the fog, the IAF may cancel its grand display of 28 a/c including the Phalcon :-(

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 21 Jan 2010 10:44

Went there years ago and was very lucky to be close to the road where the parade takes place. We kids were grouped up and sat on the ground. Watched them march past up so close. It was a treat. I guess not any more. I dont think they allow you to see the weapons after the parade but things might have changed. The 21 gun salute is so nice to hear. Still remember it.

Bhushan · Post by **Bhushan** » 21 Jan 2010 14:28

My first ever post over here. So please forgive me for for my naiveness.

Can some one please tell me why was Arjun MBT designed to have manual loading gun and not a automatic loading gun as it is in some other tanks? Is there any advantage of having manual loading gun or a automatic loading gun ? Like in the number of rounds that can be fired per minute? Thanks in advance.

Mayuresh · Post by **Mayuresh** » 21 Jan 2010 15:49

Bhushan wrote:My first ever post over here. So please forgive me for for my naiveness.
Can some one please tell me why was Arjun MBT designed to have manual loading gun and not a automatic loading gun as it is in some other tanks? Is there any advantage of having manual loading gun or a automatic loading gun ? Like in the number of rounds that can be fired per minute? Thanks in advance.

Do not know about the advantages of manual loading, probably :
1. Faster loading
2. No fear of the auto-loader being jammed

What I do know is that manual loading was specifically mentioned as a requirement in the Arjun GSQR prepared by the army!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2010 22:21

Can some enterprising members research the story about para/hang gliders available by country of origin to figure out how mcuh of a threat the news about L-e-T acquiring them? Also can anyone just walk up and acquire them?

Eg.
Name and picture of the hang glider and specs. Start with Europe first and then rest of the world. Maybe in a separate thread.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 22 Jan 2010 22:54

ramana wrote:Can some enterprising members research the story about para/hang gliders available by country of origin to figure out how mcuh of a threat the news about L-e-T acquiring them? Also can anyone just walk up and acquire them?

I know of some US models which are available worldwide and are sold to pretty much anyone. People even buy them off E-Bay and Amazon. I can make a list of those with the price if you wish.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 23 Jan 2010 12:23

Can someone please enlighten me about the composition of an infantry platoon? Do we a DM (designated marksman) in every platoon? Is the DM armed with a Dragunov or Galataz?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Jan 2010 12:31

every platoon ? that's too many don't you think ? I think ray sir said there are DM's (called something else in IA) in every battalion. dragunovs are the primary weapons of choice ?

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 23 Jan 2010 13:55

ArmenT wrote:
Carl_T wrote:How do pilots relieve themselves on long, say 10 hour flights? Or do they just uh, hold?
It is called a Urine Collection Device http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_collection_device
You can buy one for yourself state-side if you plan to go on long trips. http://www.nycib.org/nycib/product.html This one turns the pilot's pee into a gel like substance on contact, so that it doesn't slosh around in the bag. It also releases a pleasant scent at the same time as the gel reaction is happening. USAF generally feeds its pilots high protein diets before flights, so that #2 isn't produced as much. If the pilot really needs to go #2, they go in the suit.

Thank you, good info.

---> If there is a shortage of officers, why does the military not increase the no. of seats in the NDA, or increase the number of enlisted men being trained as officers?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 23 Jan 2010 16:49

Carl_T wrote: It is called a Urine Collection Device http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_collection_device
You can buy one for yourself state-side if you plan to go on long trips. http://www.nycib.org/nycib/product.html This one turns the pilot's pee into a gel like substance on contact, so that it doesn't slosh around in the bag. It also releases a pleasant scent at the same time as the gel reaction is happening. USAF generally feeds its pilots high protein diets before flights, so that #2 isn't produced as much. If the pilot really needs to go #2, they go in the suit.

Thank you, good info.

---> If there is a shortage of officers, why does the military not increase the no. of seats in the NDA, or increase the number of enlisted men being trained as officers?[/quote]

Indeed, why?

Do let us know.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 23 Jan 2010 19:01

Rahul M wrote:every platoon ? that's too many don't you think ? I think ray sir said there are DM's (called something else in IA) in every battalion. dragunovs are the primary weapons of choice ?

Well, wiki mentions that Warsaw Pact countries had a DM in every platoon, armed with a Dragunov. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragunov_sniper_rifle
I thought maybe even IA operates on similar lines. But 1 DM per battalion seems too little!

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 23 Jan 2010 22:51

RayC wrote:
Indeed, why?

Do let us know.

Hm?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 24 Jan 2010 03:52

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QKkSf03VuFY/S ... SL7586.JPG

I have 2 questions regarding this photo:

1) What is that black plastic sheet like stuff on base of turret ? Never seen it on any other photo.
2) Is head of gunner distant enough to be safe from being crushed by turret as it rotates ?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Jan 2010 08:33

this should answer your question.

VijayKumarSinha · Post by **VijayKumarSinha** » 24 Jan 2010 08:46

jamwal wrote:http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QKkSf03VuFY/S ... SL7586.JPG

I have 2 questions regarding this photo:

1) What is that black plastic sheet like stuff on base of turret ? Never seen it on any other photo.
2) Is head of gunner distant enough to be safe from being crushed by turret as it rotates ?

Hi Jamwal, about question 2, if you watch a video of 26 jan parade, you will see that the driver actually bends his head down to allow the turret to move behind it! I don't know if they do that with the Arjun tank but I remember seeing a parade a long time back and the driver definitely bent his head down to allow the turret to pass behind it.

It was such a scary sight when I first saw it because if he waits even for a fraction of a second his head would hit the rotating turret! All this is when the driver is sticking his head out, but in real combat situation, he would be inside the tank with the latch closed, and he would see through the sights that you see in the photo.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 24 Jan 2010 12:07

VijayKumarSinha wrote:
jamwal wrote:http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QKkSf03VuFY/S ... SL7586.JPG

I have 2 questions regarding this photo:

1) What is that black plastic sheet like stuff on base of turret ? Never seen it on any other photo.
2) Is head of gunner distant enough to be safe from being crushed by turret as it rotates ?
Hi Jamwal, about question 2, if you watch a video of 26 jan parade, you will see that the driver actually bends his head down to allow the turret to move behind it! I don't know if they do that with the Arjun tank but I remember seeing a parade a long time back and the driver definitely bent his head down to allow the turret to pass behind it.

It was such a scary sight when I first saw it because if he waits even for a fraction of a second his head would hit the rotating turret! All this is when the driver is sticking his head out, but in real combat situation, he would be inside the tank with the latch closed, and he would see through the sights that you see in the photo.

THAT is really scary man!! In the heat of the battle, if he need to poke his head out, and then the turret rotates, then he is a goner! Is this a common 'problem' with all tanks, or is it only the Arjun?

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Jan 2010 12:32

vijay, atreya I don't think that's correct. you can see the arjun image above, the driver's head is well in front of the swivelling turret.

Hi Jamwal, about question 2, if you watch a video of 26 jan parade, you will see that the driver actually bends his head down to allow the turret to move behind it! I don't know if they do that with the Arjun tank but I remember seeing a parade a long time back and the driver definitely bent his head down to allow the turret to pass behind it.

I think you made a mistake, the driver must have bent his head down to look at some instrument. the turret is controlled by the gunner IIRC, if what you say was the case we would have had a lot of headless drivers.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Jan 2010 12:37

atreya wrote:THAT is really scary man!! In the heat of the battle, if he need to poke his head out, and then the turret rotates, then he is a goner! Is this a common 'problem' with all tanks, or is it only the Arjun?

drivers don't need to poke their head out in the heat of battle. if he does he can't drive from that position. the only person who can do it is the tank commander but even that is discouraged in modern tanks.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 24 Jan 2010 17:21

With the nuclear deal appearing to clearly demarcate the line between India's civilian and military nuclear programme, do the experts here have any details on how the recruitment process works for nuclear engineers who would be interested in joining the Naval Architectural Corps, considering that the IN will be building nuclear a/c carriers, cruisers and more ATV''s, possibly Akulas, Amurs & other N-sub classes (basically an entire N-powered Carrier Battle Group)

Will the recruitment process be all hush-hush (behind the scenes crouching tiger hidden dragon type) or what?

Another question i have is with regard to a CBG. At this point we do not have a N-powered a/c carrier, so if SSN's are part of this CBG and an eventuality (such as a temporary shutdown of power or a fire in the engine room of the carrier) takes place, will the Mig-29's be able to take orders from the lead SSN, i.e. will the SSN be able to take operational command of the CBG till the carrier is back to a 100%? I understand that this was one of the factors which led to the conversion of 4 Ohio class subs to a SSGN role.

P.S: I'm assuming the Gorky will be the carrier here with its Mig-29K's, assume the CBG is on a strike operation.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 24 Jan 2010 17:27

Klaus wrote: Another question i have is with regard to a CBG. At this point we do not have a N-powered a/c carrier, so if SSBN's are part of this CBG and an eventuality (such as a temporary shutdown of power or a fire in the engine room of the carrier) takes place, will the Mig-29's be able to take orders from the lead SSBN, i.e. will the SSBN be able to take operational command of the CBG till the carrier is back to a 100%? I understand that this was one of the factors which led to the conversion of 4 Ohio class subs to a SSGN role.

P.S: I'm assuming the Gorky will be the carrier here with its Mig-29K's, assume the CBG is on a strike operation.

Why would an SSBN be part of a CBG? Did you mean SSN? AFAIK SSBNs are lone wolves and operate silently and alone to avoid detection.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 Jan 2010 17:45

Tank commanders prefer to keep their head out till the real engagement or intense arty fire. The periscopic sights, though helpful, do not quite give the perception desired.

Keeping the head out allows commanders to note their relative position with the other tanks of the sub unit since a tank does not fight an individual combat but as a synchronised battle unit.

During engagement and intense artillery fire, the tanks button up.

Once the BMS is introduced these problems will be resolved.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 24 Jan 2010 17:50

RayC wrote:Tank commanders prefer to keep their head out till the real engagement or intense arty fire. The periscopic sights, though helpful, do not quite give the perception desired.

Keeping the head out allows commanders to note their relative position with the other tanks of the sub unit since a tank does not fight an individual combat but as a synchronised battle unit.

During engagement and intense artillery fire, the tanks button up.

Once the BMS is introduced these problems will be resolved.

The BMS is supposed to be introduced on the Arjun MkII right? What about the T-90 and T-72? Any plans for equipping them with a BMS?

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 24 Jan 2010 17:54

nachiket wrote: Why would an SSBN be part of a CBG? Did you mean SSN? AFAIK SSBNs are lone wolves and operate silently and alone to avoid detection.

Nachiket, my bad, I meant SSN, I should probably edit my post

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 Jan 2010 17:59

nachiket wrote:

The BMS is supposed to be introduced on the Arjun MkII right? What about the T-90 and T-72? Any plans for equipping them with a BMS?

I believe work is being done in this regard.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 25 Jan 2010 03:14

Can LCA carry nukes ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jan 2010 06:52

durgesh wrote:Can LCA carry nukes ?

As long as any payload is in a container of the right size and weight and can be fixed to a pylon on the LCA - it will be able to carry nukes, flowers, cowdung, milk or anything that one may choose to send. The plane itself has no specific preference for what is inside the container carrying the payload.

Whether the LCA can be used for fuzing and toss bombing of nuke payload is not information that has been discussed in public as far as I know.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Jan 2010 07:23

Infact since both the delivery platform and the deliverable in question are made in India the answer to that question is YES .

Bhushan · Post by **Bhushan** » 25 Jan 2010 13:11

Recently China conducted a Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) test ON 11th January 2010. Some media reports say that China is the second or third country to posses this ABM technology after USA and Russia. I was just wondering how true this was because it is well known open fact that Israel and India already have proved to possess this technology along with the other two countries mentioned before. So that should make China as the fifth country to possess and test this technology?

I just wanted to know if its correct that China is second or third country to posses this ABM technology? Or its a case of mistaken reporting? If China indeed happens to be second or third country to posses this ABM technology could some body please enlighten me as to how the Chinese ABM system is different than the Indian ABM system?

Thanks in advance!

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 25 Jan 2010 13:33

Chinese ABM test was simulating the intercept of an incoming ICBM missile. The Indian ABM test simulated an incoming IRBM missile. The difference between the two is their velocities: IRBM ~ 5km/sec vs ICBM ~ 10km/sec. Thus tracking, guidance of ABM and interception of an ICBM is a whole order of magnitude higher than for an IRBM. US & Russia were the only ones till now with tested ABM capability for ICBM. The Israeli systems are also geared towards IRBM. Btw, India is working on ICBM interceptor called the PDV. FWIW PDV is rumoured to have Israeli assistance for some components.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 27 Jan 2010 00:21

Sorry, I meant driver, not gunner in my original post.
Rahul jee, going by picture you posted, driver's head definitely will be crushed if the turret rotates. But it's not a likely scenario in combat as other members suggested