Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jan 2010 23:37

nrshah wrote:http://frontierindia.net/iindian-tests- ... bomb-again

In continuation to the test of laser guided bomb kit on 21st January 2010, another trial of the bomb developed by ADE was conducted on 22nd Jan 2010. But this time, releasing it intentionally with 400 metres offset. Inspite of the initial offset, guidance system of the bomb ensured that it homes on accurately to the target. All the mission objectives were met in this trial also. LASTEC has developed the laser subsystem and CEMILAC has done certification of these air dropping trials.
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Thats a pretty good offset. What it means is even if the initial aim is off by atleast that amount ~ 0.5km, the munition will guide itself to the illuminated target.
Wonder what was the distance at which it was released?

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 26 Jan 2010 12:57

India to Test Agni-III Ballistic Missile in February-March 2010

India might conduct another test of 3,500-km-range Agni-III ballistic missile in February-March. The first test of the Agni-III ballistic missile was conducted in July 2006 resulted in failure. But the following two tests, in April 2007 and May 2008, were successful. According to DRDO, Agni-III will be ready by 2012-2013.

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Jan 2010 13:04

According to DRDO, Agni-III will be ready by 2012-2013.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Jan 2010 17:24

The Rday parade had a canisterized surface to surface missile called the "Shourya" with a stated range of 700 km.

I haven't seen too much discussion on this

Old news of Shourya below with DDM pic of Brahmos instead dated 12 days before 26/11
http://www.thehindu.com/2008/11/14/stor ... 151500.htm

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Jan 2010 17:54

shourya was tested last year, more than once IIRC and we discussed it thoroughly then.

SanjibGhosh · Post by **SanjibGhosh** » 26 Jan 2010 20:01

Akash to secure our skies

http://www.timesnow.tv/Akash-to-secure- ... 337178.cms

You can watch this right now on times now ....

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Jan 2010 21:56

Rahul M wrote:shourya was tested last year, more than once IIRC and we discussed it thoroughly then.

IIRC, Shourya was touted to be the land based version of the Sagarika.

Wonder where the Nirbhay has gone to hibernate?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Jan 2010 22:37

sum wrote:
Rahul M wrote:shourya was tested last year, more than once IIRC and we discussed it thoroughly then.
IIRC, Shourya was touted to be the land based version of the Sagarika.

Wonder where the Nirbhay has gone to hibernate?

Nirbhay hasn't been tested at all till now has it? I guess they are concentrating more on Brahmos-II, Shourya and Agni-II and III versions right now. I guess its on the back-burner right now.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 27 Jan 2010 00:15

In the latest DRDO newsletter (link below - check Page 5 Missile Systems Cluster), Nirbhay is conspicuous by its absence in their goals for 2010. Unless its all hush-hush.

IMO Nirbhay has more importance in the eyes of BRF jingoes than those of DRDO.

http://www.drdo.org/pub/nl/2010/jan10.pdf

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Jan 2010 01:23

Question for gurus -

In the above document, it says induction of 2 Pinaka squadrons. How many Pinaka launcher systems that translates to? Is that our annual production capacity?

Thanks

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 27 Jan 2010 01:28

Prem Kumar wrote:In the latest DRDO newsletter (link below - check Page 5 Missile Systems Cluster), Nirbhay is conspicuous by its absence in their goals for 2010. Unless its all hush-hush.

IMO Nirbhay has more importance in the eyes of BRF jingoes than those of DRDO.

http://www.drdo.org/pub/nl/2010/jan10.pdf

Good to know DRDO's key Focus Areas for 2010. It will be interesting to see their 2009 KFAs and compare them with their achievements so we can get a realistic plan for 2010.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 27 Jan 2010 02:21

Their Jan 2009 newsletter does not spell out the goals for 2009. So, we dont have a base to compare. We can be happy that they have come out and stated goals for 2010. There are some fudge factors built into it of course (like the product roadmaps my company puts out). Hopefully they will under-promise and over-deliver.

Examples of fudge:

a) Launch Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAV program: I thought this "program" has already been launched and the UAV crash has also materialized. So, no idea what this means. I would have loved to see a date when Rustom would actually be operational.

b) Realisation of Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR): what does "realisation" mean? Is it a prototype?

I was also puzzled by the Pinaka "squadron" - dont know what that is.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 27 Jan 2010 03:37

Note the relatively feeble goals of the materials cluster for 2010. Materials is a definite Achilles heel for India and needs attention pronto. I want to see SC blades and TBCs "realized" very soon.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 27 Jan 2010 15:30

Prem Kumar wrote: b) Realisation of Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR): what does "realisation" mean? Is it a prototype?

Realization in DRDO/ISRO speak usually means creation of the physical hardware. At least that's what I can make out reading various articles from them.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Jan 2010 15:44

RamaY wrote:Question for gurus -

In the above document, it says induction of 2 Pinaka squadrons. How many Pinaka launcher systems that translates to? Is that our annual production capacity?

Thanks

While I do not know the exact number, the number of units should be 4-6 per squadron.And I have no idea why it should be called Squadron? Even for the Rocket Regiments, the term is battery with 3 batteries per regiment.

RameshC · Post by **RameshC** » 27 Jan 2010 16:10

well one Pinaka battery has 6 launchers, each with 12 rockets, thus they can deploy 72 rockets very quickly, a battery can neutralize 1000m * 800m out to 45km, ideal to take out an entire air base. The Pinaka Fire control Computer funstions in stand alone mode and can control and communicate with upto 8 launchers. we currently have around 80+ launchers in our active inventory, so a battery probably has around 6-8 launchers, so we have around 10 batteries. Dont know much about the group structure. 120km version in the pipe, the new missile will have top speed of mach 4.7, 250kg warhead, climb to 40km and hit its target at a terminal velocity of mach 1.8 and devastate area of 3.9km2.

Nirbhay is still a no show. Matter of fact no official word since they first launched the program, but they did say it would have 24 types of warheads, now developing all these types could be delaying it, range is said to be 1000km, top speed around mach 0.9. they also said that it would be land, sea and air capable. Beyond that no concrete info on the Nirbhay. Wonder when they'll get it up and running because its the ideal, low cost weapon that can be used in massive numbers once the enemy's critical air defences have been put out of order. I wonder whats going on, whatever they do i hope they build in some sort of terminal boost phase in order to speed up the missile to mach 2 before it hits the target like the Club missile 3M-54E. Would make it unstoppable against the enemy's quick reaction anti missile systems. Because with the SAMs these days 0.9 mach is not enough and could be intercepted.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 27 Jan 2010 17:31

Prem Kumar wrote:In the latest DRDO newsletter (link below - check Page 5 Missile Systems Cluster), Nirbhay is conspicuous by its absence in their goals for 2010. Unless its all hush-hush.

IMO Nirbhay has more importance in the eyes of BRF jingoes than those of DRDO.

http://www.drdo.org/pub/nl/2010/jan10.pdf

The Missile Systems Cluster speaks about testing of A5

Agni 5 test planned for 2010

?!

pralay · Post by **pralay** » 27 Jan 2010 19:22

http://brahmos.com/newscenter.php?newsid=115

Indian Army Demands More Missile Regiments

NEW DELHI: The Indian Army is trying to get the government to buy it two more regiments of BrahMos block II missiles. Each regiment would have 61 missiles, 12-24 mobile launchers and two mobile control centers. The new regiments would have a more advanced version of the missile than the existing BrahMos block I regiment (with five mobile launchers). The first regiment cost $83 million. The block II missiles are more accurate and reliable at hitting pinpoint targets (like headquarters or technical installations) in crowded urban environments.

Two years ago, India ordered 800 more of the new PJ-10 BrahMos missiles. The Indian Army plans to buy 80 launchers in the next ten years. Russia has not yet ordered any BrahMos, while India is also working on lighter versions for use by aircraft and submarines. The 3.2 ton BrahMos has a range of 300 kilometers and a 660 pound warhead. Perhaps the most striking characteristic is its high speed, literally faster (at up to 3,000 feet per second) than a rifle bullet. Guidance is GPS or inertial to reach the general area of the target (usually a ship or other small target), then radar that will identify the specific target and hit it. The warhead weighs 660 pounds, and the high speed at impact causes additional damage (because of the weight of the entire missile.)

India and Russia developed the weapon together, and now offer the BrahMos for export. The high price of each missile, about $2-3 million (depending on the version), restricts the number of countries that can afford it. The weapon entered service with the Indian navy in 2005. Different versions of the PJ-10 can be fired from aircraft, ships, ground launchers or submarines. The maximum speed of 3,000 kilometers an hour makes it harder to intercept, and means it takes five minutes or less to reach its target. The air launched version weighs 2.5 tons, the others, three tons or more.

Lacking money to finish development and begin production, the Russian manufacturer eventually made a deal with India to finish the job. India put up most of the $240 million needed to finally complete two decades of development. The PJ-10 is being built in Russia and India, with the Russians assisting India in setting up manufacturing facilities for cruise missile components. Efforts are being made to export up to 2,000, but no one has placed an order yet. Russia and India are encouraged enough to invest in BrahMos 2, which will use a scramjet, instead of a ramjet, in the second stage. This would double speed, and make the missile much more difficult to defend against.

India indicates it plans to make the missile a major weapon system. The BrahMos can carry a nuclear warhead, but is designed mainly to go after high value targets that require a large warhead and great accuracy. The BrahMos could take out enemy headquarters, or key weapons systems (especially those employing electronic or nuclear weapons.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Jan 2010 22:30

RameshC wrote:well one Pinaka battery has 6 launchers, each with 12 rockets, thus they can deploy 72 rockets very quickly, a battery can neutralize 1000m * 800m out to 45km, ideal to take out an entire air base. The Pinaka Fire control Computer funstions in stand alone mode and can control and communicate with upto 8 launchers. we currently have around 80+ launchers in our active inventory, so a battery probably has around 6-8 launchers, so we have around 10 batteries........<SNIP>

are you sure of ther bolded part?That is very serious firepower......

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 27 Jan 2010 23:01

rohitvats wrote:
RameshC wrote:well one Pinaka battery has 6 launchers, each with 12 rockets, thus they can deploy 72 rockets very quickly, a battery can neutralize 1000m * 800m out to 45km, ideal to take out an entire air base. The Pinaka Fire control Computer funstions in stand alone mode and can control and communicate with upto 8 launchers. we currently have around 80+ launchers in our active inventory, so a battery probably has around 6-8 launchers, so we have around 10 batteries........<SNIP>
are you sure of ther bolded part?That is very serious firepower......

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/01/ex ... -from.html
As per live fist, two more Pinaka regiments will come into existence in 2010, taking the total number of Rocket Regiments (Pinaka) to four.
If I am not wrong a regiment can have ~ 5 batteries so the figure of 80 launchers is plausible.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 27 Jan 2010 23:01

^^^^^

Making the private sector’s first major foray into defence production in India, a Tata Group firm and Larsen and Toubro have bagged orders worth Rs 200 crore for producing the indigenously developed multi-barrel rocket launcher—Pinaka. As per the order issued by the Army headquarters on March 29, Tata Power’s Advanced Material Division and L&T Heavy Engineering Division will produce around 40 Pinaka MRBLs each, ( That adds up to 80 )sources said.

Confirming the development, Tata Power (Strategic Electronic Division) CEO Rahul Chaudhry said that the company would deliver the first launchers to the Army in six months. ‘‘The order has materialised and we would deliver the first launchers to the Army in six months,’’ he said.

CLICK

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Jan 2010 10:00

^^^

From that CLICKY

L&T and Tata delivered 80 launchers in 3 years that is ~25-30 launchers annual capacity.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 28 Jan 2010 14:32

neeraj wrote: http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/01/ex ... -from.html
As per live fist, two more Pinaka regiments will come into existence in 2010, taking the total number of Rocket Regiments (Pinaka) to four. If I am not wrong a regiment can have ~ 5 batteries so the figure of 80 launchers is plausible.

None of the components of the Regiment of Artillery have 5 batteries. It used to be four and was subsequently brought down to three. So the above argument does not hold.

RamaY wrote:^^^

From that CLICKY

L&T and Tata delivered 80 launchers in 3 years that is ~25-30 launchers annual capacity.

80 launchers@18/Regiment translates into 4.5 Regiments. Which basically means that 40+ launchers have been delivered and are in operation with 2 Regiments plus for training. And balance two regiments will come online in 2010. Good going. The best part of these MRLS things is that we can distribute/deploy them in batteries as well. I'm looking at 12+batteries and not 4 Regiments. And coupled with IACCS, quite a serious volume and concentration of firepower can be brought down on the TSPA.....good times ahead...

And as for the capacity, I'm sure these are prelim numbers. I want one such regiments/division for plains at least....that is like 20 Regiments...add the numbers for Corps Arty Bde and Arty Divisions..we're looking at ideal number of 35-40 such regiments...720 peices of such equipment....(well....I'm allowed to dream, ain't I.

)

Krishna_V · Post by **Krishna_V** » 29 Jan 2010 04:09

Hot news on Sub-Brahmos ...sorry folks this is from telugu news and its in telugu

http://sakshi.com/main/SportsDetailsNor ... ubcatid=33

SriniY · Post by **SriniY** » 29 Jan 2010 04:24

Krishna_V wrote:Hot news on Sub-Brahmos ...sorry folks this is from telugu news and its in telugu

http://sakshi.com/main/SportsDetailsNor ... ubcatid=33

Looks like they tested something from a submarine. Does not state the missile name though. Just says it might be similar to Brahmos

Nalla Baalu · Post by **Nalla Baalu** » 29 Jan 2010 05:02

Krishna_V wrote:Hot news on Sub-Brahmos ...sorry folks this is from telugu news and its in telugu

http://sakshi.com/main/SportsDetailsNor ... ubcatid=33

Translating from the above source. Emphasis and translational/transcription errors are mine:

Yet another powerful missile is taking shape in indian defense sphere. DRDO is developing this one with latest technology. The missile which is in
preliminary devlopmental phase was tested on thursday around 10 am. The secretive test conducted 40 nautical miles from Visakhapatnam was successful.

Camping in Visakhapatnam, a group of about 80 specialists from Hyderabad's DRDO (DRDL?) have been working hard on it for last few days. The group made
all necessary arrangements for the test and time to test was fixed for thursday.

As part of these arrangmenets a submarine from naval dockyard proceeded into waters of bay of bengal. Specialists from DRDO followed the submarine on INS
Sukanya. It has been learnt that, being a preliminary test, the missile was tested from submarine on to sea surface. During advanced testing, target to
be achieved will be designated. With the success of preliminary testing, advanced testing may be scheduled for February. According to sources, the missile
resembles Brahmos (Sagarika/Shourya?)

Prestigeous nuclear sumbmarine INS Arihant has already been developed. It was inaugerated last year on July 26th by Mr/Mrs Dr. Manmohan Singh. The
missile tested is believed to have been developed for nuclear submarine. Notably, during today's test, most of the officials were from DRDO with only a
handful of navy officials. With successful execution of this crucial preliminary test, various DRDO groups are elated.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 29 Jan 2010 05:27

SriniY wrote:
Krishna_V wrote:Hot news on Sub-Brahmos ...sorry folks this is from telugu news and its in telugu

<span><a linkindex="79" href="http://sakshi.c ... ubcatid=33
" class="smarterwiki-linkify">http://sakshi.com/main/SportsDetailsNor ... ubcatid=33[/url]

</a></span>

Looks like they tested something from a submarine. Does not state the missile name though. Just says it might be similar to Brahmos[/quote]

I will rather wait for a different source to confirm it ******

Edited..ramana

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Jan 2010 08:53

Prestigeous nuclear sumbmarine INS Arihant has already been developed. It was inaugerated last year on July 26th by Mr/Mrs Dr. Manmohan Singh. The
missile tested is believed to have been developed for nuclear submarine. Notably, during today's test, most of the officials were from DRDO with only a

Either the Sagarika or the A-IIISL??

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 29 Jan 2010 08:56

III-SL will have to be tested from land based water tank first. Followed by the pontoon launcher.

Only then will it be tested off a sub. I guess.

But surely no direct test off a sub on the first go.

My guess is
1. Nirbhay
2. Brahmos
3. Sagarika

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 29 Jan 2010 08:58

^^^
This news if true might very well explain one of the longest ever overhaul of the KILO sub being done in india.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 29 Jan 2010 09:05

Or has India leased a sub from russia for testing missiles?

Any gurus hear any such suggestion from a panwallah?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Jan 2010 09:47

was the nirbhay model shown of 21" or 23" diameter?

if that was the case, I would favour the theory of a tube launched SLCM for deployment on all SSK.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 29 Jan 2010 10:08

From LIVEFIST: IAF / DRDO's Laser Guided Bomb Trial.

Pic only no accompanying article

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 29 Jan 2010 10:31

hmm, 2-seat jag.

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 29 Jan 2010 10:46

is there an accompanying litening pod? is it on the jag?

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 29 Jan 2010 11:02

Doesn't the Jag have a built in Laser designator and marked target seeker in the nose?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 29 Jan 2010 11:03

Not visible on the Pic.

Does a New LGB also mean that a desi targetting pod has also been developed? I mean won't the laser frequencies be different?

vasu_ray · Post by **vasu_ray** » 29 Jan 2010 11:36

laser frequencies needn't be different, even if they were, a compatible sensor on the LGB would be sufficient, regardless of the type of the homing sensor its the guidance system that's critical relying entirely on free fall

added later: a 400 meter offset could mean that the LGB can tolerate high winds, the madrassa math being the wind can shift a free falling dumb bomb by 400 mts from its target, while the LGB compensates

In the scenario that a cruise missile delivers a LGB, the CM can rely on non-mil signals as well to reach a launch zone, the offset adjusts for launch inaccuracy

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 29 Jan 2010 11:39

Singha wrote:was the nirbhay model shown of 21" or 23" diameter?

if that was the case, I would favour the theory of a tube launched SLCM for deployment on all SSK.

FWIW, I was going to hit a paanwala for spitting all over my shoes when he somewhat obtusely told me that India will soon have a new reason to be fearless. Strange.

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 Jan 2010 12:36

An Indian nuclear Popeye with a 2000 km range loaded on ALL its subs ... now that is a nuclear detterence vs the panda !