LCA news and discussion

Nirmal · Post by **Nirmal** » 01 Feb 2010 22:15

KrishG wrote:LCA Programme To Get Status Check By Defence Minister

Also LCH flight..............

url link not working and niether does livefist Blog site carry the news item

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 01 Feb 2010 22:24

From ^^^^^ link of Livefist

EADS has confirmed that its consultancy to bring the air force version of the LCA up to speed on its flight trials schedule is active and a team has been embedded in Bangalore for the purpose.

A good news from LCA program

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Feb 2010 05:22

Jagan, could you pleeeaase ask Sanjay if he has more pics of PV-5 ? I don't want to sound ungrateful, but if he took more of that beauty, could he share it with us ? It is without doubt the best looking LCA to date, although the N-LCA will likely be a looker as well.. The drooped nose and the curvier curve of the canopy really do something wonderful to its looks.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Feb 2010 06:09

No one noticed something that we're seeing for the first time on a Tejas- that in this image, for the first time, we can see the Elbit DASH HMDS being used on the PV-3 Tejas in flight..

The difference between the helmet worn by PV-3's TP in the above picture and the helmets worn by TPs earlier as well as in the picture where they're flying PV-5 is clear if you zoom into the picture and compare it to helmet worn here and here which is of French origin and used on Mirage-2000s or the helmet worn here which is of British origin (seen on Jag pilots). There is a pronounced bulbousness at the top, which is not related to the visor (which is black), which is in the down position. The helmet worn by the TP in the first picture of PV-3 can be compared to the picture of Elbit DASH.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 02 Feb 2010 06:49

Kartik wrote:Jagan, could you pleeeaase ask Sanjay if he has more pics of PV-5 ? I don't want to sound ungrateful, but if he took more of that beauty, could he share it with us ? .

I will check with him. He usually keeps something away for other publications so in some cases we wont get all the pics.

BTW Nice catch on the DASH helmet. I have checked if the original has the helmet in better resolution. it is only slightly better. But see if this is of any use.

Bheem · Post by **Bheem** » 02 Feb 2010 09:34

edited

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2010 10:22

a solitary tejas is up again over hal-kmangala-oRR area since 10 mins
making low level circles and steep turns. it flew at 100m above my house
and seemed to have lowered landing gear over HAL...but didnt land, its back again on the prowl.

the engine seems to emit a visible smoke periodically not a continuous on-fire stream like mig29/an32.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 02 Feb 2010 10:28

Singha wrote:a solitary tejas is up again over hal-kmangala-oRR area since 10 mins
making low level circles and steep turns. it flew at 100m above my house
and seemed to have lowered landing gear over HAL...but didnt land, its back again on the prowl.

the engine seems to emit a visible smoke periodically not a continuous on-fire stream like mig29/an32.

Yup...saw the same one...did a inverted flying bit as well.....demo for the RM?

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 02 Feb 2010 10:43

it came low over the runway, and later it did a barrel roll or was it just an inverted flying?

Anantz · Post by **Anantz** » 02 Feb 2010 10:59

Saw it too, was doing really tight turns over the HAL area. Seemed more like scissor maneuver! But it was awesome... n really quick!

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 02 Feb 2010 11:31

Livefist wrote:Indian Defence Minister AK Antony is scheduled to visit Bangalore tomorrow, during which he will witness a 20-minute flight between 10.30-10.50AM of one of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas prototypes in flight.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 02 Feb 2010 11:34

Rahul M wrote:A caveat first. what constitutes IOC and FOC depends on AF. simply put, IOC is the minimum level of performance at which the aircraft can operate as an usable fighting machine for the AF.
FOC is the level at which all required performance parameters set by the AF are met, IOW it's the configuration at which the aircraft will enter regular service.

now, it is up to the AF to decide upon minimum parameters for IOC. the LCA for example will be inducted in IAF after it achieves IOC and will enter full operational service after it attains FOC. the gripen OTOH was inducted even before it achieved IOC, i.e when it was an experimental aircraft and not a fighting machine !

we can guess the IOC requirements from what we know of the tests that are being carried out now and what will be carried out in future during FOC phase, after IOC is completed by this year.
rohitvats wrote:A question to the maulanas learned in the ways of jahaj-e-kuffr:

--What are the parameters involved (boradly) which require clearing to attain the IOC by the Tejas?
> opening up of flight envelope(AoA,max alt and speed etc) to the level required for operational service. it could be that IOC stops just a little lower than full design specifications and the shortfall is made up by FOC. this is normal.
> clearing the LCA airframe to its designed structural limits. in LCA's case, I think other than full AoA others have already been done.
> other than that, everything a fighter needs to operate as an interceptor and ground attack aircraft. now we do not know if LCA has fired any radar guided missiles or not but we do know
>> it has fired dogfight missiles like the R-73
>> it has dropped a number of dumb bombs of varying sizes and it has also been mated to the litening pod. that hints that it will have PGM delivery capability by IOC itself.
in terms of capabilities, at IOC it will be roughly equivalent to the mig-27, with better aerodynamics and sensors. that is, if the radar is NOT interated. if it is integrated then it will enter IAF as fully multi-role
--Similarly, what will the steps required to be cleared thence to achieve the FOC?
radar integration and validation of A2A and A2G modes. other than that fitting of IFR probe and some electronic goodies. also finishing touches to the flight envelope.
complete weapons integration.
--Timeframe for the above two steps?
from the article in vayu circa Nov, flight envelope tests for IOC was on line to be completed by december itself. IOC and induction in IAF is expected by middle of this year.
FOC, latest by 2012 end.
--And the induction into the IAF will happen post FOC?
nope, see above.
Thanx in advance.

And I suppose the standards are different for Indian and Phoren products.

A Phoren (read Russian product) can be in IOC and soon in FOC without meeting the parameters. An Indian (read DRDO) product will have to be 100% over and above the parameters to be in IOC. FOC let's not even think of it

K

PS This does not apply to IN

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Feb 2010 11:41

there is little to complain about IAF's treatment of LCA project in the past 2 tenures, starting from ACM Major's. IAF is taking a more hands-on approach and driving the development through regular interactions of the top brass with the LCA team.
what they have asked for IOC isn't unreasonable for an AF faced with committed and capable adversaries. per some reports they have even shaved off a little from the aerodynamic envelope of ASR for Mk1 FOC, which will be met by Mk2. of course, both the Mk1 and Mk2 will surpass by miles the ASR in other aspects viz. sensors, EW etc.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 02 Feb 2010 13:01

sameer_shelavale wrote:
sankum wrote: The facility includes thermal cycling chamber, vibration machine, dehumidifying chambers for storing PCBs, high resolution inspection tools to identify process errors, automated test equipment for rigorous performance testing and engineering test station for testing the DFCC unit.
I am just wondering, how will the PCBs will survive on ships if they need to be stored in dehumidified chembers?

PCBs are made by laminating glass fiber cloth with epoxy resin. Moisture can creep in into the structure. When they are run through the soldering process, they are heated up to 250 degree celcius in a matter of seconds. If any moisture is trapped within, it will expand, and create de-lamination. This may not be visible, or testable right away, but would reduce the reliability. Such boards will fail after going through several heat/cool cycles.

Once soldered, it is not a problem, because such high temperatures will not happen in regular use. So, PCBs are stored in dry environment only. Same case with packaged ICs and other components.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Feb 2010 15:57

One was not asking for more Jags or MIG-27s,though the first is still being built and both upgraded extensively,but regarding any radar that might be used on the two in the upgrades.The Jags do have a maritime variant.It would sensible to have one common radar for the light end of the IAF's inventory,at least in the MK-1 versions if the planned radars have yet to be perfected.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Feb 2010 17:46

from livefist.

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 02 Feb 2010 17:48

Is this true ? After MMRCA trials have started IAF is showing more interest in LCA than before .I heard some noise about problems with western systems.Any gyan on this ?

Cheers

Prabhu.G

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 02 Feb 2010 18:49

now i know why there was no test flight of PV-5 after its first test flight it was taken for a paint job they could have done it before its first flight

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 02 Feb 2010 18:54

Cabinet outlays Rs 8,000 crore for development of LCA
http://www.newsonair.com/news.asp?cat=n ... &id=NN2727

vina · Post by **vina** » 02 Feb 2010 18:56

Rahul M wrote:from livefist.

Suweeet uh! The nice "fat back" has given an SU30 ish look to the front. Hopefully, the Air Force sees the light of the day and goes with the "trainer" version as final , just asking for the 2nd seat space in the hump filled to the brim with an internal tank (like the Navy version). Will bring the internal fuel to a pretty decent fraction..All for great range and persistence.

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 02 Feb 2010 18:56

karan_mc wrote:now i know why there was no test flight of PV-5 after its first test flight it was taken for a paint job they could have done it before its first flight

No. It cannot be!

Its tradition that all the first flights should be with the unpainted yellow primer ones.

Yellow (turmeric) is considered very sacred in here. Typical Indoo feeling onlee.

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 02 Feb 2010 19:04

vina wrote: Suweeet uh! The nice "fat back" has given an SU30 ish look to the front. Hopefully, the Air Force sees the light of the day and goes with the "trainer" version as final , just asking for the 2nd seat space in the hump filled to the brim with an internal tank (like the Navy version). Will bring the internal fuel to a pretty decent fraction..All for great range and persistence.

If that is so, won't the front seat eat up the space for the Radar that is to be installed in the cone, since two seats are accomodated by moving the front seat a bit into the nose cone? My naivity only.

Please dont give that idea to IAF now

, it will again delay LCA by some years. I wish to see LCA in IAF squadrons before the world ends in 2012

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Feb 2010 19:05

forgot LCA first flight saar ? pristine white with green nose ?

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 02 Feb 2010 19:11

Oops. Did not know you are watching

Nevertheless, that was when LCA is a child. Children have exceptions. Only grown ups are expected to follow traditions.

Bhushan · Post by **Bhushan** » 02 Feb 2010 20:17

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/ex ... nd_02.html

Some more LCA trainer pics from livefist blog!! What a lovely beauty it is!!!

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 02 Feb 2010 20:33

They did away with the orange cap

Bheem · Post by **Bheem** » 02 Feb 2010 20:48

http://www.newsonair.com/news.asp?cat=n ... &id=NN2727

He (Defence Minister) proudly announced that Akash surface to air medium range missiles developed within the country has been whole heartedly welcomed by our Air Force and additional order has been placed for 750 of them apart from 250 acquired earlier. He also disclosed that Airforce has placed an order for 20 additional LCAs apart from an order of 20 placed earlier. He also welcomed Navy for replacing imported sonars and radars with the one manufactured by BEL.

manoba · Post by **manoba** » 02 Feb 2010 20:51

Oh boy, oh boy. How in the he** the evil Indians cram so many things into that poor little cute thingy.

Doesn't it just look like a cute little Sparrow? Or a bit grown Falcon chick.

Can some esteemed BR know-all members advise me where and how to buy that thing for personal use? And probably which bank to rob?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 02 Feb 2010 20:53

nukavarapu wrote:
sanjaychoudhry wrote:Cabinet outlays Rs 8,000 crore for development of LCA
http://www.newsonair.com/news.asp?cat=n ... &id=NN2727
I didn't see the figure 8,000 crore mentioned in the article. Did I miss something?

The website was modified, it had the 8K crore figure earlier. Wonder why they took it off. Also lots of text have changed

Modified : 02 February 2010 21:05:15

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 02 Feb 2010 21:29

manoba wrote:Oh boy, oh boy. How in the he** the evil Indians cram so many things into that poor little cute thingy.
Doesn't it just look like a cute little Sparrow? Or a bit grown Falcon chick.

Its funny you should mention that

. The name sparrow-hawk comes to mind.. http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/006 ... hawk_2.jpg

vijyeta · Post by **vijyeta** » 02 Feb 2010 22:33

Bheem wrote:http://www.newsonair.com/news.asp?cat=n ... &id=NN2727

Never seen so many jingos made happy by just one article (more orders for LCA and Akash).

Venu · Post by **Venu** » 02 Feb 2010 22:37

krishnan wrote:They did away with the orange cap

No. The plane just returned from a sortie and jettisoned its drag chute. Observe the hollow in place of the 'orange'

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 02 Feb 2010 22:41

IAF to procure more Tejas aircraft and Akash missiles: Antony
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article99367.ece

On the LCA’s Naval version, Mr. Antony said that the building of two prototypes was envisaged — a two-seat trainer (NP1) and a single-seat fighter (NP2). The NP1 was nearing completion of equipping after the structural assembly, and it was due to roll out by April next followed by the first flight in June. The NP2 is scheduled for the first flight by June 2011.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Feb 2010 23:10

Venu wrote:If that is so, won't the front seat eat up the space for the Radar that is to be installed in the cone, since two seats are accomodated by moving the front seat a bit into the nose cone?

The twin-seater version is slightly longer than the single seater and the front seat has not moved into the nose cone or whatever. They've eliminated one fuel tank that carried around 100 kgs of fuel and in its place put the rear seater. The radome volume is unchanged.

Please dont give that idea to IAF now, it will again delay LCA by some years. I wish to see LCA in IAF squadrons before the world ends in 2012

Your wish will likely be granted this year itself. No.45 Flying Daggers will be hopefully stood up and take the first deliveries of the Tejas Mk1 at IOC capability level by this year end. If there are minor delays, it may slide to 2011 but seeing the progress being made, it won't beyond that.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 02 Feb 2010 23:24

Man..what beautiful demo by the Jahaj-e-Kuffr....saw from office.....was about to bolt to the raised ground next to the side wall of HAL airfield but then a client called.....

What beauty...

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Feb 2010 23:33

Was there no press coverage of the flying demo? Man, our media sucks big time..if one film star was there, we'd have seen every bloody newspaper and website carrying pictures and a few of the LCA would've slipped in. Maybe they should've called Katrina Kaif or even some struggling starlet to come stand near PV-5, then all possible angles would've been photographed. bugger. So the only pictures we get from this visit of the RM is what we see on Livefist ?? disappointing to say the least.

I have another gripe- why is it that Indians are so blissfully unaware of the fine art of aircraft spotting ? Quite a few of my friends were photography enthusiasts, but none had access to aircraft the way Bangaloreans do. And yet, we almost never get the kind of pics that Chini enthusiasts take, and they seemingly risk a lot to take them..from behind barbed wire fences, aircraft flying overhead and what not..Sanjay's pics are great, but then he seems to be getting them published as well..is there no jingo with good photography skills and access to HAL airport?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 02 Feb 2010 23:35

Kartik wrote: The twin-seater version is slightly longer than the single seater and the front seat has not moved into the nose cone or whatever. They've eliminated one fuel tank that carried around 100 kgs of fuel and in its place put the rear seater. The radome volume is unchanged.

Kartik, do you know by how much the trainer is longer than the single-seater?

Given that the trainer has a different profile compared to the single-seater, how much difference does it make to the aerodynamic behavior of the trainer? Will there be big differences in how the single and dual-seaters will behave?

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 02 Feb 2010 23:39

Bheem wrote:http://www.newsonair.com/news.asp?cat=n ... &id=NN2727

He (Defence Minister) proudly announced that Akash surface to air medium range missiles developed within the country has been whole heartedly welcomed by our Air Force and additional order has been placed for 750 of them apart from 250 acquired earlier. He also disclosed that Airforce has placed an order for 20 additional LCAs apart from an order of 20 placed earlier. He also welcomed Navy for replacing imported sonars and radars with the one manufactured by BEL.

This made my evening. I know I'm going to dream about this tonight and tomorrow morning I'll catch myself talking to myself about this in office.

Man I want to flay my arms and jump. I feel almost like my favorite team won an IPL match. (But then again, that could be because I'm just a newbie

)

Best wishes to the team and look forward to the seeing the bird soon IAF colors.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 02 Feb 2010 23:43

anirban_aim wrote:
Bheem wrote:http://www.newsonair.com/news.asp?cat=n ... &id=NN2727

He (Defence Minister) proudly announced that Akash surface to air medium range missiles developed within the country has been whole heartedly welcomed by our Air Force and additional order has been placed for 750 of them apart from 250 acquired earlier. He also disclosed that Airforce has placed an order for 20 additional LCAs apart from an order of 20 placed earlier. He also welcomed Navy for replacing imported sonars and radars with the one manufactured by BEL.
This made my evening. I know I'm going to dream about this tonight and tomorrow morning I'll catch myself talking to myself about this in office.

Man I want to flay my arms and jump. I feel almost like my favorite team won an IPL match. (But then again, that could be because I'm just a newbie )

Best wishes to the team and look forward to the seeing the bird soon IAF colors.

I can relate to your feeling.....my whole office knows about BR and my love for the aircrafts....moi treated my office mated to coffee and pastries on the day PAK-FA flew.....

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 02 Feb 2010 23:50

I can relate to your feeling.....my whole office knows about BR and my love for the aircrafts....moi treated my office mated to coffee and pastries on the day PAK-FA flew.....

Thanks a lot.

I'll have to plan something now.