China Military Watch

[Avinash R]

China mulls setting up military base in Pakistan

[rohitvats]

But still the job has to be done after the hostilities have started.

Well, with Smerch rockets having range between 70-90kms, IA should be able to take this one out in couple of hours. All it will take is to position couple of Smerch Batteries in proper position/location and fire away.Getting the right place to locate the launchers may be a bigger headache.

[Rony]

China mulls setting up military base in Pakistan

Here is the original chinese article mentioned in the above TOI report.There are no names of the countries given.But the focus was on naval bases.

Don't shun the idea of setting up overseas military bases

[VinodTK]

China cancels military exchanges with US after Taiwan deal

[chanakyaa]

China mulls setting up military base in Pakistan

Who else would allow PRC to setup a base except TSP. I bet this is TSP's desperate attempt to lease part of its land/port to somebody to generate some revenue to keep the country afloat/solvent. What else can the retard generals in TSP do to save the country? I'm sure, PRC is happy to capitalize on the opportunity to setup a listening post on the western frontier..

[Bhushan]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 510099.cms

China's share in Russian arms export dropping

MOSCOW: Buying of arms by Russia's one-time biggest customer, China, has seen a decline and such trend may continue, head of the country's sole state intermediary agency for export-import of defence-related technologies and services said today.

"China's share in our (arms) exports is now less than 18 per cent and will further drop," Director General of Rosoboronexport, Anatoly Isaikin said.

Addressing a press conference here, Isaikin said the dwindling volume of arms sales to China was logical.

"Their military-industrial complex is successfully developing. That's why China buys very little," he said.

During the last 15 years, China has been Russia's largest arms buyer followed by India.

In the first decade of the century, beginning from 2001, China has bought USD 16 billion worth of arms from Russia, including 200 Sukhoi fighters of various modifications, S-300 air defence missiles, Sovremenny class destroyers and Kilo class diesel-electric submarines.

Last year, Russia signed an agreement for the sale of 100 RD-93 engines for Chinese J-10 fighters.

Meanwhile, in an apparent reference to India, Isaikin said a similar tendency is visible with other partners also, with the focus shifting from 'buyer-seller' relationship to joint development and production of weapon systems.

Looks like the Chinese arms industry seems to have come of an age that they are confident that they wont need much of Russian technology in the future.

[Aditya G]

But still the job has to be done after the hostilities have started.

Well, with Smerch rockets having range between 70-90kms, IA should be able to take this one out in couple of hours. All it will take is to position couple of Smerch Batteries in proper position/location and fire away.Getting the right place to locate the launchers may be a bigger headache.

Serious damage to a runway can only be done by specialised anti-runway munitions. Either we send in the MiGs or IAF launches Prithvis. Somehow I doubt either is going to happen.

[rohitvats]

Well, with Smerch rockets having range between 70-90kms, IA should be able to take this one out in couple of hours. All it will take is to position couple of Smerch Batteries in proper position/location and fire away.Getting the right place to locate the launchers may be a bigger headache.

Serious damage to a runway can only be done by specialised anti-runway munitions. Either we send in the MiGs or IAF launches Prithvis. Somehow I doubt either is going to happen.

A speacialized runway denial munition is required in case of attack on airfields situated deep in enemy terrotory.I such case you'd want the airfield to away from action for as long as possible as mounting multiple raids is neither feasibile nor desirable. In case of airfield mentioned in this case, saturation attack using Smerch/Pinaka should be enough to put the base out of operation using the AT submunition.And you forget that rest of the support facilities and aircraft+AD assets will be extremely vulnerable to the such a saturation assault.

And if push comes to shove, with hostilities already underway, nothing stops IA from sending in a Prithvi or AF sending in couple of MiGs.

[VinodTK]

Chinese sub entered Taiwan waters: Report

[Craig Alpert]

Engine-less J-11-B

The current issue of Aviation News (HangKong Bao) displays a dozen manufactured J11Bs sitting at SAC without engines. This highlights the problem the PLAAF faces due to Shanyang Liming Aircraft Engine company's inability to fulfill all FWS10A (Taihang) orders. As indicted by the SAC's press release on its 2009 performance, it said it had fulfilled its PLAAF contracts "fairly" well. Which is different from previous press releases describing their performance as "very" well.*

Production certification delays prevented the FWS10A from entering mass production until recently. Perhaps this public display of engine-less fighters is SAC telling its partners to work faster.

[Craig Alpert]

China hacking: Cabinet Secy to meet IT experts

Cabinet Secretary K M Chandrasekhar has called a meeting of information technology (IT) and security experts next month to formulate a response to cyber attacks on key government ministries which have been found to be linked to computers servers in China.

Government sources said the February 9 meeting has been convened after a sweep of computers in the Prime Minister's Office by National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) last month and checks of the Home Ministry network by the IT experts last November found malware programmed to unauthorisedly access files and transmit them outside India.

According to government cyber experts, the malware was sending files to an unknown IP address. Further investigations with top Internet companies in the US revealed that the IP address was exporting the vital information, which includes drafts and highly secure data, to servers in mainland China. These companies also confirmed to the Indian security agencies that hacker activity from China had been noticed in the past too.
.......

[VinodTK]

Let the games begin

Taiwan to buy military helicopters from Europe

[sevoke]

GoI should go ahead and grant the Dalai Lama Indian citizenship and harass the Chinese about Tibet in all International fora.

I see. In addition to granting citizenship, why not also stop all R&D on military and instead develop a potent medicine that can keep DL immortal. Better yet, why not clone DL and create million more DLs, may be that will scare China...

There is no point being nice to them--the meaner you are, more the respect; just like the average chinese guy on the street.

You are watching too many bollywood movies...

On a serious note. At one point in the history, angles and nippons were building empire in there own way. Nippons were much meaner than the angles. Does this mean nippons got more respect? I doubt it.

Hello Chanakyaa with a double "a", congratulations for pompously declaring your newfound knowledge in History/Anthropology on this forum. By referring to Japanese and English as Nippons and Angles you have succesfully distinguished yourself from laymen like me. Please continue to let your imaginations run riot. I understand you are just being an EDITED.
On and equally serious note and one: it's their not there. Tone down the sarcasm while addressing members in this forum. This forum has standards. Peace Bro.

[arnabh]

People ....any views on Russia's statement on its new nuclear doctrine and how it impacts india vis-a-vis china....

"http://beta.thehindu.com/news/internati ... 101914.ece

Lowering the threshhold for the use of nuclear weapons, Russia has said it reserves the right to hit back with nukes in case of an aggression, in a new doctrine which may be a veiled warning to China and rising NATO powers.

“Russia reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in response to the use of nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction against it and its allies, as well as an aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons jeopardising the very existence of the state,” a military doctrine signed by President Dmitry Medvedev said.

Speaking on the conditions of anonymity some foreign diplomats believe that the lowering of threshold for the nuclear weapons could be a veiled warning to China, which has an overwhelming numerical advantage over Russia with the total population less than 147 million.

A retired three-star Soviet general, who wished not to be named, told PTI yesterday that after 1968 border conflict with China, the Soviet General Staff had virtually given up the concept of a conventional war with ‘our great Asian neighbour’, the new doctrine has publicly stated the stance.

Expansion of NATO closer to the boundaries of Russia, deployment of missile shield elements on the perimeter of its land and maritime borders, international terrorism, proliferation of WMD and growing number of nuclear powers have also been identified as the external threats for the security of the nation.

Keywords: Nuclear weapons, Dimitry Medvedev, Russia, NATO

[kulhari]

K Subrahmanyam: Yin and Yang in the US-China relationship

http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... hip/384818

...With the global economic recovery now underway and with the US acquiring a good sense of Chinese capability to hurt the US economically, Obama may have decided to demonstrate that the US still retains the capability to act and has greater manouevrability in the international system as a pre-eminent military power. President Obama appears to have chosen China’s backyard to demonstrate it. Perhaps there are messages to Japan, South Korea and Asean nations too. From the American NSA’s comment it would appear that China's possible adverse reactions have been taken into account and this US move is not likely to come in the way of continuing US-Chinese economic cooperation...

[kulhari]

Hambantota In The Great Game Of The Indian Ocean
http://www.thesundayleader.lk/2010/02/0 ... nt-page-1/

nothing new per se yet it makes interesting read.

[abhik]

slight OT,but on the question of giving citizenship to HH DL, exactly what type or which countries passport does he (and his close associates)use? I mean at least for formality's sake he would need a valid one right? I suspect he already has an Indian passport which I guess would make him an Indian citizen . Or am I missing something..

[Craig Alpert]

India aid to Bhutan, ties with Russia worrying China

BEIJING: India is “intensifying military penetration” in Nepal and Bhutan, a Chinese analyst said in a government-run website. The Himalayan kingdoms have become theatres of conflict between military strategists from India and China, it suggested.

The analyst, Dai Bing, also raised a rare issue saying that the Bhutan Air Force has deployed defense equipment along the border with China after getting them from India. It did not say what kind of equipment has been deployed.

“The struggle between pro-India and pro-China forces in Nepal is at a critical stage and China needs to pay more attention to its interests there,” the analyst said while citing a news report that New Delhi was building an air base in Nepal.

India has also “encouraged Russia” to provide military helicopters and logistical support to Bhutan, the article complained. It said India has helped establish and equip the Bhutan Air Force. It also expressed worry over rising military cooperation between New Delhi and Moscow. The article might seems to actually congratulate India on its defense diplomacy in persuading Russia to take actions that would make China unhappy besides commanding considerable influence over the two Himalayan kingdoms.

This is interesting because Beijing is dangling two lucrative offers before Katmandu. They are the offer to extend the Tibet railway to Nepal and send large numbers of tourists to the Himalayan nation. In turn, it wants an assurance that Tibetan separatists would not operate in Nepal. “In a quest for military advantage along its border with China, India is intensifying its military cooperation with the United States and Russia and stepping up its military penetration of small border states adjoining China and India,” it said. The past decade has seen India buying arms worth $50 billion from the United States, Russia, Britain, Israel and France making it the biggest arms importer in the developing world, it said. It also mentioned the recent agreement between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and the Russian president on military matters.

“But despite its arms purchases from the great powers and military penetration of neighboring countries, it remains extremely unlikely that India will unleash all-out conflict with China,” the article said. The main reason is India is focused on fighting terrorism and on Its “pressing missions are to contain Pakistan”. “For the foreseeable future, therefore, while a "cold war" between the two countries is increasingly likely, a ‘hot war’ is out of the question,” the article concluded.

[suraj p]

there is an old saying in telugu - upon translation -
"grasshopper likes to jump too much near fire and before falling into it"

I sometimes think that china is also doing the same. I dont know what commies educate their citizens, they are under the belief that china is not on track to expand its territories. China 'just' wants to protect it oldest 'culture'.
Now China is taking its chances with US by giving 'warnings' to US and President Obama. I rarely heard from countries that are not part of so called 'axis of evil' giving such warnings to US or its president. These warnings are in wake of US sale of arms to Taiwan and Obama's meeting with Dalai Lama.
China issues warnings on a daily basis to India these days. Japan and Russia are not immune to such intimidation. With over trillion US treasury bonds in its hand, China thinks it is richest country in terms of cash and resources.

The way china is arguing with neighbors about borders is silly.
1. Tibet is part of china since Yuan dynasty ruled it.
2. Arunachal is part of China because it is lower tibet.
These arguments are silly, Did India claim Sri lanka when Chola and Pallava dynasty ruled Lanka. Cholas and their subordinates ruled present day malaysia, vietnam and combodia.
To me these arguments are like, Bamboo grows in US and babmoo is part of chinese culture and US belongs to China thus US borders are disputed.
Xuanzang visited India and thus entire India is part of China.

If these arguments are not similar to what Hitlers views are or imperial british then what kind of arguments are these.
We know what happened to these folks in history..
In the last 10 years, I clearly see the grasshopper jumping too much!

[krisna]

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/unhap ... adlines%29

But Cheng Hong Sheng of the 52 Border Defence Force of the PLA, after crossing over from Wondong to the Indian side in the Tawang sector at 8.03 am on January 14, complained he was not being treated well by the PLA. Before he stepped across, he threw away his service rifle

Son of Tao Hua from Xiamen in Fujian province, Cheng made an unusual request to the Indians. He wanted to be sent back to China, preferably to Shanghai or Beijing, as he was tired of training with the PLA for four years at the Line of Actual Control (LAC).

Sources said the PLA seemed more than happy to have recovered their wayward soldier

Poor Sheong Must be receiving the treatment planned chinese style

may be keeping him under custody in India may have created a negative public image for china

[RayC]

This is the important part of the Chinese soldier crossing over:

At first, the Indians thought Cheng would give them details of the Chinese strength and positions across the LAC. But the mood changed when he gave fixed answers to all questions. There was even suspicion that he could be part of a Chinese gameplan to learn about Indian troop positions

[krisna]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... as-weapon/

China's military stepped up pressure on the United States on Monday by calling for a government sell-off of U.S. debt securities in retaliation for recent arms sales to Taiwan.

China holds nearly $800 billion worth of Treasury debt securities. It is not clear what impact selling off some of the securities would have on the struggling U.S. economy. However, analysts say that selling off some bonds could drive up interest rates and disrupt U.S. economic recovery efforts.

At the State Department, spokesman P.J. Crowley dismissed the economic threat as potentially self-defeating. "That would be biting the nose to spite the face," Mr. Crowley said. "The economies of the United States and China are intertwined."

Who will GUBO first-

[AdityaM]

Unhappy with life on LAC, Chinese soldier crosses over, sent back
Excerpts:

Cheng Hong Sheng of the 52 Border Defence Force of the PLA, after crossing over from Wondong to the Indian side in the Tawang sector at 8.03 am on January 14, complained he was not being treated well by the PLA. Before he stepped across, he threw away his service rifle.
Son of Tao Hua from Xiamen in Fujian province, Cheng made an unusual request to the Indians. He wanted to be sent back to China, preferably to Shanghai or Beijing, as he was tired of training with the PLA for four years at the Line of Actual Control
At first, the Indians thought Cheng would give them details of the Chinese strength and positions across the LAC. But the mood changed when he gave fixed answers to all questions. There was even suspicion that he could be part of a Chinese gameplan to learn about Indian troop positions
After intense debate, the Indian Army called a flag meeting on January 15 and handed over Cheng to the Chinese at BumLa at 10.30 am. He was carrying a mobile charger, battery and notes on the first aid the Indians gave him

Why the hurry to return? Does truth serum not work on chinese?

[abhishek_sharma]

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... y_policies

China has also invested in the maritime capacity to ship and the naval power to secure these supplies. It has bought up port facilities along the sea lanes from the Strait of Hormuz to the South China Sea, developed a navy that could soon rival the U.S. Pacific fleet, and even hinted that it might carve a canal through Thailand's Kra isthmus to bypass the narrow Strait of Malacca.

[sourab_c]

might carve a canal through Thailand's Kra isthmus to bypass the narrow Strait of Malacca.

Build a narrower canal to bypass a narrow strait? Ingenious!

[k prasad]

might carve a canal through Thailand's Kra isthmus to bypass the narrow Strait of Malacca.

Build a narrower canal to bypass a narrow strait? Ingenious!

Thats even better for india, given that they'll come out right between the Andamans and nicobars, making it easier for us to gather intell. Of course, in case there are any warships that pass through, then we'll get lesser warning than if they came through the straits. However, given ours and Yanks close relations with Thailand, I doubt the Chinese will want to send an attack group through that path.

[neilmurali]

We can also use Bangladesh as a base to keep a check if threat comes from taiwan bcoz it is administrated by China and could possibly be used to attack us.

[neilmurali]

We can also sort help from russia bcoz it has given a warning to china about it's nuclear power so it's possible that russia could help us since being allies to crush chinese land grabbing doctrine.

[Shameek]

We can also use Bangladesh as a base to keep a check if threat comes from taiwan bcoz it is administrated by China and could possibly be used to attack us.

Huh? Threat from Taiwan? And Bangladesh? Do look at the world map. I fail to see how this is relevant.

We can also sort help from russia bcoz it has given a warning to china about it's nuclear power so it's possible that russia could help us since being allies to crush chinese land grabbing doctrine.

Help from Russia for what?

[Shalav]

Chinese crude shipments are already subject to 2 Indian chokepoints.

IIRC about 80% of their crude imports travel SW from West Asia through the Arabian sea and then cuts ESE between the Lakswadweeps and Maldives. From there it heads east past the southern tip of India and Sri Lanka across the northern Indian Ocean then the route bisects Nicobar and Sumatra, before heading SW through the Straits of Malacca past Singapore. Then they head north between Borneo and the Malaysian Peninsula.

The other 20% comes from Angola/Nigeria, past the Cape of Africa, across the central Indian ocean and then thru Selat Suda between Sumatra and Java. Then the same north route to China.

A canal cutting across Thailand still cannot avoid the Nicobar and Lakswadweep choke points.

However their shipping could avoid the Lakswadweep choke point by heading south past the western Lakswadweeps and the Maldives and then cut east between the Maldives and the British Indian Ocean Territories (Diego Garcia). The Nicobar choke point can be avoided by routing this traffic through Selat Suda instead of the Straits of Malacca.

None of these alternate routes are far enough away from IFR and BRAHMOS equipped MKI's and naval LRMP's. That puts all their eggs in one basket with an elephant's foot poised to crush it at any time. Hence their frantic quest to protect their SLOC's using the Coco Islands in the A&N region. Trying to get SL on-board with helping their refuel/re-arm plans etc...

India needs to build up Fortress Nicobar - It needs at-least 2 squadrons of MKI's with their attendant refuelers. Its needs a major IN base to control everything that moves past those straits. It needs land based BRAHMOS II's with ranges in excess of 1000 km to control traffic through Selat Suda. Some pieces are in place some need to put in place.

I think planners do realise the potential and are building up capacity as they are available.

[yossarian]

Chinese crude shipments are already subject to 2 Indian chokepoints.

India needs to build up Fortress Nicobar - It needs at-least 2 squadrons of MKI's with their attendant refuelers. Its needs a major IN base to control everything that moves past those straits. It needs land based BRAHMOS II's with ranges in excess of 1000 km to control traffic through Selat Suda. Some pieces are in place some need to put in place.

A question - Is a land based cruise missile capable of taking out ships? Our naval officers have beliefs to the contrary when talking about Chinese Anti Ship missiles.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ef/578104/

I am all for building up Fortress Nicobar but would BRAHMOS II be an effective weapon to control sea lanes?

[krisna]

Googling for the thai (kra) canal-


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Canal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kra_Isthmus
salient features-
Singapore will loss revenue from the proposed kra canal as vessels will bypass it and reduces distance by 1000kms.
The Malacca Straits is narrow: The Philip Channel near Singapore is only 2.5km wide,with the potential for a collision, grounding ,sabotage by pirates/terrorists.
The Chinese plan called for construction over ten years employing roughly 30,000 workers and costing between 20 and 25 billion American dollars.
The project would also compliment the Highway 44 overland route, which links the West and East coasts of Thailand, and has currently been stalled with some 50 kilometers to go at either end – a victim of the recent political turmoil in Thailand.

[Shameek]

A question - Is a land based cruise missile capable of taking out ships? Our naval officers have beliefs to the contrary when talking about Chinese Anti Ship missiles.

That was with reference to anti-ship ballistic missiles and not cruise missiles.

[yossarian]

That was with reference to anti-ship ballistic missiles and not cruise missiles.

I understand. However, the naval chief suggests the difficulty lies in spotting and identifying targets in High seas as the primary problem (the accuracy/type of missile whether ballistic/cruise is not the doubt). My question more specifically would be - Would any LAND BASED missiles (cruise or ballistic) play a role in controlling traffic on high seas or would such controlling be entirely delegated to patrols by vessels or MKIs armed appropriately?

Having missiles with the capability of shooting down ships upto 1000 KMs would be one of the cheapest ways of blocking China's imports, however, if such a capability is under doubt then our costs for the same activity would markedly go up. Wont they?

[jaladipc]

Chinese crude shipments are already subject to 2 Indian chokepoints.

India needs to build up Fortress Nicobar - It needs at-least 2 squadrons of MKI's with their attendant refuelers. Its needs a major IN base to control everything that moves past those straits. It needs land based BRAHMOS II's with ranges in excess of 1000 km to control traffic through Selat Suda. Some pieces are in place some need to put in place.

A question - Is a land based cruise missile capable of taking out ships? Our naval officers have beliefs to the contrary when talking about Chinese Anti Ship missiles.

<span><a linkindex="88" href="http://www.expr ... ef/578104/" class="smarterwiki-linkify">http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ef/578104/[/url]</a></span>

I am all for building up Fortress Nicobar but would BRAHMOS II be an effective weapon to control sea lanes?

YES.

Given the capability of sat based survivalance.
A small statement from IN,"IN achieved the capability of striking surface combatants at extended ranges using its satellites for guidance" will send jitters down the chinese spine.A high level of insecurity for chinese and its allied cargo builds up. India can dominate the negotiating table.

[Singha]

I have read the malacca and the sumatra-java strait cannot take ULCC. its the deep water lombok strait between bali and lombok 18km wide, 250m deep that is the ULCC highway between IO and PO.

so potentially at much expense in shipping they could devise a new route via southern IOR that goes near
australia and then directly north via lombok. but this will double the shipping mileage.

[vasu_ray]

A question - Is a land based cruise missile capable of taking out ships? Our naval officers have beliefs to the contrary when talking about Chinese Anti Ship missiles.

<span><a linkindex="88" href="http://www.expr ... ef/578104/" class="smarterwiki-linkify">http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ef/578104/[/url]</a></span>

I am all for building up Fortress Nicobar but would BRAHMOS II be an effective weapon to control sea lanes?

YES.

Given the capability of sat based survivalance.
A small statement from IN,"IN achieved the capability of striking surface combatants at extended ranges using its satellites for guidance" will send jitters down the chinese spine.A high level of insecurity for chinese and its allied cargo builds up. India can dominate the negotiating table.

while it would be excellent for IN to use ballistic missiles to target ships, since the Chinese have ASAT weapons, we should have strategies to protect our LEO based sats

one of the options is the ability to launch a replacement sat at short notice from land or ships using the A-3,5, however, sub based launches (such subs are strategic in the first place) may not be feasible since the payload part might be a bulbous structure similar to the PSLV so the top portion may not fit into a canister either

[jaladipc]

^^^

If I stand correct,All the current day military sats comes with missile warning systems.They do carry RWR`s and will dodge at the last sec to avoid the attack.

[neilmurali]

We can also use Bangladesh as a base to keep a check if threat comes from taiwan bcoz it is administrated by China and could possibly be used to attack us.

Huh? Threat from Taiwan? And Bangladesh? Do look at the world map. I fail to see how this is relevant.

We can also sort help from russia bcoz it has given a warning to china about it's nuclear power so it's possible that russia could help us since being allies to crush chinese land grabbing doctrine.

Help from Russia for what?

I wrote that Taiwan is administered by china and could possibly use it as a base .and we can use banglaesh as a base.I did not say bangladesh is a threat pls read properly.

[Philip]

China does not need to build a canal through Thailand.A canal could just as easily be sabotaged by special forces and put out of action for months.Just destroy the locks! As a member wrote,such a canal opening into theAndamns Sea bang opposite Indian controlled territory is another recipe for disaster. Controlling the Burmese coastline is a better option for China,where it could build pipelines to the Burmese coast fropm China and offload its petro product tankers,avoiding the Malacca Straits altogether.It is strengthening its relationship with Burma building a secret N- facility and plans to turn Burma into another nuclear-armed Pakistan! This will be a frightening scenario for India,to have two cronies of China,both N-armed to the teeth on either beam and with China too squatting on top of the Himalayas in the north.A Nuclear armed Burma will then be theoretically able to ward off any Indian military action against any Chinese bases on its territory,for fear of retaliation.We must treat Burma as being of the most vital importance to us both diplomatically and militarily.As long as the Burmese govt. has its grip on power,it will trun to the Chinese for the insurance against getting thrown out by US and western machinations.