Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010

[Anujan]

Thanks for noticing the nuance.

Kancha Ilaiah has few followers on this forum. Pakis have few followers on this forum. When Pakis or Ilaiah make casteist remarks we hear howls of protest. But otherwise it seems quite acceptable to see a pejorative definition of Brahminical - as long as the person using a casteist expression is saying things that one wants to hear.

Reverse casteism is alive and well even as people purport to struggle to protect that which is Indic. At best this is a cognitive bias. Or else it is hypocrisy.

I think that we should stop being brahmins and become baniyas instead. That way we can conduct a better foreign policy.

Or maybe it was 12'o clock when MMS made the decision to talk to Pakistan.


(even when Indians are dying, we take casteist jabs at each other. Wah! Wah! my country!)

[Malayappan]

Secrets, spies and lies Irfan Hussain in the Dawn

[Airavat]

But otherwise it seems quite acceptable to see a pejorative definition of Brahminical ....

You should take it up with Dasgupta, but what I infer from his write up is that the word is being used for intellectuals. Brahmins were the intellectuals of society from ancient times.

He is castigating intellectuals, those supporting the current GOI in its inaction on responding to terror attacks. Some of them on this forum.

When Pakis or Ilaiah make casteist remarks we hear howls of protest.

With his Brahman ancestry Swapan has the freedom to make fun of or criticize his community. But if somebody else does it, that becomes offensive. In any case Pakis or Ilaiah don't just critique Brahmans, they castigate them, and then start spewing anti-India diatribes.

[SSridhar]

Back to the thread topic, away from the irrelevant & useless caste discussions

Zardari orders reopening of his own graft cases

Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari on Saturday ordered the reopening of corruption cases against him in Switzerland in line with a Supreme Court order, according to media reports.

Mr. Zardari has directed the Attorney-General and the Law Ministry to initiate the process for reopening the cases in Switzerland, according to sources close to the presidency and the ruling Pakistan People's Party quoted by TV news channels. There has been no official word on the development from the presidency or the PPP.

The cases in Switzerland were closed under the National Reconciliation Ordinance, a graft amnesty issued by the former military ruler, Pervez Musharraf, which was struck down by the apex court last year.

The sources said a formal request for reopening the cases would be filed with the Swiss government by Monday.

The sources said Mr. Zardari had decided to face the cases in Switzerland “head on” after realising that “landing on the wrong side of the judiciary would make matters worse and not go down well with the public”.

[abhishek_sharma]

‘Terrorism not the only focus in talks with Pakistan’

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... aram-qs-01

Talking to Kashmiri leader Mehbooba Mufti, Chidambaram said the Indian government was also considering giving banking facilities to traders to initiate business across the Line of Control (LoC).

Chidambaram said trade across the LoC and confidence building measures regarding Kashmir could also be discussed during the meeting.

He noted that steps were underway to establish infrastructure at the Baramulla, Poonch and Islamabad sectors in this regard. — DawnNews

[shiv]

With his Brahman ancestry Swapan has the freedom to make fun of or criticize his community. But if somebody else does it, that becomes offensive.

Notice the circular argument in this justification:

• Swapan Dasgupta must first identify himself as Brahmin
• That self identification gives him the right to be critical of other Brahmins (that is what you say). First comes the identification, then the rejection.
• Such a right to critcise Brahmins is not (according to you) available to non Brahmins
• But if Dasgupta had Brahmin ancestry and gave up all self identification with that ancestry and said that he was not Brahmin, would he still have the right to be critical?
• If he went further and identified himself as a member of the Idiga community of Karnataka - would that give him the right to be critical of that scheduled caste, or would his "bloodline" his parentage and ancestry, which serves as your excuse for his words exclude him from doing this

Note that community identification is more deeply embedded in Indian psyche than we admit or recognise.

If what you say is right, Swapan Dasgupta is doing is a casteist equivalent of the action of what is described on here as the deracinated Indian elite where he says "I come from that background and I think people from my background have XYZ faults" . How can that be bad for some people and praiseworthy for others? If one man can characterise someone's ancestry in a particular manner everyone else has an equal right to do that. Either we all exercise that right or we all do not exercise it.

Sorry its OT. SDG may write well but he has made a Freudian booboo and I am pointing that out.

[SSridhar]

No more caste discussion please.

[SSridhar]

How safe are Pakistan's nuclear assets

That western attitude was discriminatory can also be seen by the religious colour it gave to Pakistan’s bomb by calling it an ‘Islamic bomb’. {What a liar} One has never heard of the Israeli bomb being called a ‘Jewish Bomb’, or the Indian bomb a ‘Hindu Bomb’, or the American and British bomb a ‘Christian Bomb’ or the Soviet bomb a ‘Communist’ (or an ‘Atheist) Bomb’. The West simply used Pakistan’s bomb to make Islam synonymous with aggression and make its nuclear programme a legitimate target, knowing full well that it merely served a defensive purpose and was not even remotely associated with Islam.

Israel’s apprehension of Pakistan’s military prowess is rooted in the strength Pakistan indirectly provides to Arab states with whom Israel has remained in a state of conflict. Conscious that several Arab states look up to Pakistan for military support in the event of threat to their security from Israel, it is unsettling for Israel to see a nuclear armed Pakistan.

Israel can also not overlook the fact that Pakistan’s military is a match to its own. The PAF pilots surprised Israeli Air Force, when flying mostly Russian aircraft they shot down several relatively superior Israeli aircraft in air combat in the 1973 Arab-Israel war, shattering the invincibility myth of Israeli pilots who believed themselves to be too superior in skill and technology. The Pakistanis happened to be assigned to Jordanian, Syrian and Iraqi air forces on training missions when the war broke out and, unknown to the Israelis then, they incognito undertook combat missions.

[SSridhar]

Kayani extends Lt. Gen.'s tenure, all by himself

Chief of the Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who previously extended the tenure of the corps commander, Peshawar, has now granted a one-year extension to another lieutenant general, as the DG ISI is the third in a row who is likely to be its recipient, all in a space of six months.

Defence Minister Ahmed Mukhtar confirmed to The News that he and Prime Minister Gilani had been intimated about the extension to the general serving with the UN. The minister was reluctant to discuss the nitty-gritty terming it a sensitive issue.

Lt-Gen Sikandar Afzal has received a one-year extension that will come into effect from March 1, the day he will retire from service. He is currently abroad serving on deputation with the United Nations Peace Mission. After commanding the peace troops in Liberia, he is now believed to be stationed in New York, United Nations’ headquarters. His official engagement abroad has been cited a reason for extension in service, a senior Army official privy to the development said.

The Army chief previously granted extension to the Corps Commander Peshawar, Lt-Gen Masood Alam, in November 2009. Sikandar is now second in the row and the DG ISI Ahmad Shuja Pasha retiring on March 18 is all set to receive one-year extension in no time.

The extension in lieutenant general’s service was made the prerogative of the Army chief during Gen Zia-ul-Haq’s time when he was COAS-president.

In Benazir Bhutto’s 2nd term in office, the issue again cropped up with the prime minister wanted to reclaim the lost authority of her office. But General Kakar had told Benazir Bhutto that the generals seeking extension would be running around the politicians in case the authority to do so was rested with the prime minister/president. Gen Kakar finally succeeded in retaining the authority of granting extension.

However, Lt-Gen (retd) Hamid Nawaz, former secretary defence, said that the extension requires approval from the federal government and cited the example of extension to Lt-Gen Kidwai. “Granting extension is considered the prerogative of the Army chief but he sends a summary to the federal government that is rarely objected to,” he said. Same kind of views was echoed by former ISI head, Lt-Gen (retd) Hamid Gul. Another former secretary defence, Kamran Rasool, who is the only civilian, headed this ministry, when contacted, said no extension was granted during his time hence he was not aware of the rules about it.

[Sanku]

In fact I do not believe MMS is kowtowing to the US any more than all our great and patriotic leaders have done in the past. The others have kowtowed secrealy and with protest - like PVNR's nuclear test and Indy Gandhis punishment of 90,000 rapists. MMS is openly doing what has to be done - take cognizance of tyhe elephant in the room and not get trampled by it. Sorry if facts irritate you enough to think it is trolling.

So if Shivji believes something in becomes a fact in span of two sentences? A master wordsmith indeed.

Let me restate that, the real facts as evinced by actual events that have taken place, clearly show that the behavior of GoI towards Pakistan while not perfect was in completely different league compared to total abdication of responsibility towards Indian interests as seen by repeated attempts to give away Indian strong points, in Havana, in S e S, in Siachen with flip-flop post Mumbai V, with complete lack of attempt to solve the issues when 1000s of Indians died in Mumbai III and IV, Jaipur, Varanasi etc etc etc etc....

Let us be CLEAR of the HUGE spike in attacks directly by Pakistani elements in India over last 6 years as well as the TOTAL absence of ANY response in this period.

This contrasts completely with the action of other prioor GoIs.

[Gerard]

That western attitude was discriminatory can also be seen by the religious colour it gave to Pakistan’s bomb by calling it an ‘Islamic bomb’

Presumably it was the west that made ZA Bhutto write this in his death row cell (1979):

"We know that Israel and South Africa have full nuclear capability. The Christian, Jewish and Hindu civilizations have this capability. The Communist powers also possess it. But only the Islamic civilization was without it. But the position was about to change"

Presumably it was the west that made these folks parade this after Friday prayers in Pakistan (1998):


Maybe it was the CIA that made Nawaz Sharif say this in 1998:

Pakistan's nuclear tests had brought glory to the Muslims of the world who would never bow before any super power now." "The Muslims will never bow before any super power and the support of different countries for Pakistan in these difficult times will be remembered in a historic manner,"

There are nine nations with nuclear weapons and eight have tested. The only nation that gave a 'religious colour' to their bomb was Pakistan.

[SSridhar]

Gerard, look at the audacity of that Pakistani to write such a blatant lie in one of the widely read Pakistani English newspaper. It is this lying through the teeth that is one of the hallmarks of the Pakistani psyche. Lying about victories in wars where they were in fact defeated, lying about non-state actors, lying about nuclear & missile proliferation, lying about their national economy to the outside world, lying to their own people about the neighbouring India of which they were part for millennia etc. etc. Where does this come from ?

[A_Gupta]

Let us be CLEAR of the HUGE spike in attacks directly by Pakistani elements in India over last 6 years as well as the TOTAL absence of ANY response in this period.

If you're counting attacks in rest of India compared to J&K, yes there is a spike, but counting India as a whole there is no spike.

Here are some numbers:
http://www.newsdesk.umd.edu/sociss/rele ... cleID=1797

# 4,108 terrorist incidents occurring in India between the years 1970 and 2004. During this period, India ranked sixth among all countries in terms of terrorist incidents (behind Peru, Colombia, El Salvador, the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland and Spain).

# 12,539 terrorist-related fatalities in India between 1970 and 2004 - an average of almost 360 fatalities per year from terrorism in India. These fatalities peaked in 1991 and 1992, when 1,184 and 1,132 individuals (respectively) were killed in such incidents.

(I don't think security personnel are included in the above list.)

Also see
http://ideas.repec.org/p/pra/mprapa/19423.html
which uses the same data.

If you use the SATP numbers for fatalities in terrorist attacks in India:
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries ... lities.htm

please note that the figures for recent years include left-wing extremism, while older years do not.
If I count only civilians and security forces killed (and not terrorists), and leave out left-wing extremism,
the figures are:

1994 : 2113 killed
1995 : 2272
1996 : 2699
1997 : 2381
1998 : 2345
1999 : 2140
2000 : 2591
2001 : 2414
2002 : 1797
2003 : 1607
2004 : 1320
2005 : 1200
2006 : 1098
2007 : 955
2008 : 967
2009 : 449
-------------------------

Quite the opposite of a spike, it seems. Any rational person would say GOI should do more of the same of whatever it is doing. (Or the SATP numbers are wrong, e.g., for 2009, Maharashtra is not included. {Sorry, my mistake, 26/11 was in 2008, there is no reason to suspect SATP numbers.}. ) Nevertheless, even if SATP is wrong by a factor of 2, it would not count as a spike in terrorism it would merely be continuing at the same level as the 1990s.

The UMD database cited in the first quote above is at
http://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/
and has data upto 2007.

This graph is from there, counting the number of terrorist incidents per year:

[A_Gupta]

Some thoughts:- I'll leave Shiv to analyze the difference between perception and reality.

The uncomfortable truth is that terrorism apparently spikes when it strikes close to home
- and J&K is a remote area for most of us. This is not very different from the way the elites allegedly behave - they allegedly don't care when the violence is far away from them.

I suppose that many BRFers are too young to remember the 1980s - the time of Khalistan troubles - in terms of number of terrorist attacks it was far higher than anything today.

Fact is going by the numbers, the effects of non-left-wing extremism terrorist violence in India has been declining.

What should worry people is the surge in what SATP calls left-wing extremism.

[sanjaychoudhry]

deleted by moderator

[archan]

Gerard ji, next time ban them permanently because some will never learn.

[pgbhat]

Mani Shankar Aiyar: Terrorism is NOT a state policy of Pakistan.
Time to change the thread title I suppose.

[Avinash R]

Pakistan Taliban beheads 3 Sikhs in Peshawar

[shiv]

Mani Shankar Aiyar: Terrorism is NOT a state policy of Pakistan.
Time to change the thread title I suppose.

Mani Shankar Aiyer was one of the early people to write a book about Pakistan. Long before Stephen Cohen. His book "Pakistan Papers" was the first book that clearly stated that To be Pakistani is to be "Not Indian". However even in that book he has shown firm views that Pakistan can be swallowed by Indian trade.

This statement, in addition to others seems to add some confirmation to my growing belief that Indian policy (a political one) is now aimed at splitting Pakistani opinions into two constituencies - ie. those who are anti-Indian and those who are not. That is essentially an aim of splitting off support for the Paki army and jihadi groups towards a support for rapprochement with India. An intense hatred of the US may be a convenient factor to use here.

[sanjaychoudhry]

Gerard ji, next time ban them permanently because some will never learn.

The tone and manners of you "moderators" is quite insulting, and there seems to be more moderators on this forum than members.

Pls do the favour this time itself. Allow me to join the exalted list of people who have left this forum in disgust after posting here for years (Arun_S being an example). I request admins to deregister me immediately.

[pgbhat]

Mani Shankar Aiyer was one of the early people to write a book about Pakistan. Long before Stephen Cohen. His book "Pakistan Papers" was the first book that clearly stated that To be Pakistani is to be "Not Indian". However even in that book he has shown firm views that Pakistan can be swallowed by Indian trade.

This statement, in addition to others seems to add some confirmation to my growing belief that Indian policy (a political one) is now aimed at splitting Pakistani opinions into two constituencies - ie. those who are anti-Indian and those who are not. That is essentially an aim of splitting off support for the Paki army and jihadi groups towards a support for rapprochement with India. An intense hatred of the US may be a convenient factor to use here.

That was one quote. The other quote Aiyar said in Devil's Advocate was US policy of bribing and using military force is NOT diplomacy.
Kanwal Sibal was vehemently disagreeing with Aiyar and said that talks would lead to nowhere.
Video here

[RayC]

With his Brahman ancestry Swapan has the freedom to make fun of or criticize his community. But if somebody else does it, that becomes offensive.

Notice the circular argument in this justification:

• Swapan Dasgupta must first identify himself as Brahmin
• That self identification gives him the right to be critical of other Brahmins (that is what you say). First comes the identification, then the rejection.
• Such a right to critcise Brahmins is not (according to you) available to non Brahmins
• But if Dasgupta had Brahmin ancestry and gave up all self identification with that ancestry and said that he was not Brahmin, would he still have the right to be critical?
• If he went further and identified himself as a member of the Idiga community of Karnataka - would that give him the right to be critical of that scheduled caste, or would his "bloodline" his parentage and ancestry, which serves as your excuse for his words exclude him from doing this

Note that community identification is more deeply embedded in Indian psyche than we admit or recognise.

If what you say is right, Swapan Dasgupta is doing is a casteist equivalent of the action of what is described on here as the deracinated Indian elite where he says "I come from that background and I think people from my background have XYZ faults" . How can that be bad for some people and praiseworthy for others? If one man can characterise someone's ancestry in a particular manner everyone else has an equal right to do that. Either we all exercise that right or we all do not exercise it.

Sorry its OT. SDG may write well but he has made a Freudian booboo and I am pointing that out.

I am sure you have heard of the metaphor - left-handed compliment.

I think it was more to make a mockery of the way caste is used to damn a section of the caste rainbow!

I think he was subtly ridiculing the present ethos of thinking everything Brahmin is vile and of making Brahmin bashing a fashion statement!

Dasgupta is upper caste and if not a Brahmin in its true form. He is what is known as Vaid Brahmin.

[Sanku]

Let us be CLEAR of the HUGE spike in attacks directly by Pakistani elements in India over last 6 years as well as the TOTAL absence of ANY response in this period.

If you're counting attacks in rest of India compared to J&K, yes there is a spike, but counting India as a whole there is no spike.

Please note the above statement -- note the highlighted parts!!

Indeed I am leaving J&K out, I am also leaving the terror in Punjab out. There are two reasons

1) Topicalised instead of spread, with undeinable local factors at play, for example the fire in Punjab was the combination of two massive mishandlings 1st being creation and use of Bhinderwale and the second being the 84 riots and its handling.
2) Was being countered through specific action in a local manner -- which in those cases was also the correct response for a variety of factors.

More over EVEN IF YOU INCLUDE ALL DATA the spike that I am talking of can be clearly seen in the graph you posted -- the period 2004-2007 has a clear spike, compared to its previous period (a decline since 2000-2004)

So yes, there is a spike, esp compared to the base line definitely a spike.

[A_Gupta]

Sanku, I should have been clearer that the University of Maryland graph includes everything - I could see no way to take out left-wing extremist violence from the graph, for instance.

[Sanku]

Sanku, I should have been clearer that the University of Maryland graph includes everything - I could see no way to take out left-wing extremist violence from the graph, for instance.

I fail to see the point? If you are comparing all data, even then we are doing worse now than before (barring the Punjab problem phase?)

Also note the rate of change of the curve, not merely the value, but also whether they are climbing or falling and if so with what speed.

My response to your data points is still valid.

[vera_k]

Planet Pakistan

[vera_k]

Right now, paying any more money is equivalent of enhancing the Jizya payment. It is a path to further ignominy. Money cannot and will not buy peace. Applying pain to the bottoms, where it matters will straighten things out.

No, it's more the equivalent of rehabilitating surrendered terorrists. It only takes one person to cross over to blow the lids off a possible terror plot in the works, so why not increase the temptation to do so while the shortcomings in internal security are being fixed?

[jamwal]

Taliban abducts, beheads Sikhs in Peshawar

Peshawar/Islamabad: Two Sikhs who were kidnapped over a month back have been beheaded by the Pakistani Taliban in the country's restive tribal belt in a brutal act by the militants.

According to uncofirmed reports, the Taliban had dumped the heads of the two victims at a Gurudwara in Peshawar.

Some more members of the minority community are still in the custody of the rebels

[Rudradev]

If you're counting attacks in rest of India compared to J&K, yes there is a spike, but counting India as a whole there is no spike.

Indeed I am leaving J&K out, I am also leaving the terror in Punjab out. There are two reasons

More over EVEN IF YOU INCLUDE ALL DATA the spike that I am talking of can be clearly seen in the graph you posted -- the period 2004-2007 has a clear spike, compared to its previous period (a decline since 2000-2004)

So yes, there is a spike, esp compared to the base line definitely a spike.

The dramatic decline (and complete trend reversal) in J&K terrorism demonstrates a clear correlation to the Parakram deployment by the NDA government. The reasons for this are utterly obvious.

Successful J&K elections held under Parakram's shadow reintegrated many Kashmiri politicians from the wilderness into the constitutional mainstream, undermining local support for militancy. The cease fire imposed on TSPA thanks to the pressure Parakram brought on the US enabled unhindered fencing of the LoC and IB, reducing infiltration even further. From a state of siege over the Valley by ISI terrorists, our security forces were able to regain the initiative and eliminate terrorists in such operations as Sarp Vinash. No amount of fuzzy math or digressions about IC814 (or Swapan Dasgupta's use of the term "brahminical") detract from these ground realities. Very unfortunately so for the MMS Maino Cabal's apologists.

Crediting the regime of MMS' "Free" India with the decline in J&K terrorism is about as accurate as crediting Morarji Desai with the liberation of Bangladesh. For the rest of India, the spike in terrorism following the MMS regime's advent is clear as day. On the heels of such spectacular surrenders as Sharm-el-Shaikh and the current drive to resume peace talks over the dead bodies of the Pune attack victims, there has been an evident spike in J&K terrorism and infiltration as well. Evidently, the present regime's sellouts are actually
undoing what previous governments had achieved in J&K.

[Rudradev]

Sanku, I should have been clearer that the University of Maryland graph includes everything - I could see no way to take out left-wing extremist violence from the graph, for instance.

Now why would you *want* to take left wing terrorism out of the graph, sir? Don't you think the MMS regime's going to bed with Left parties in '04-'09 might have had something to do with the spike in yet another type of terrorism claiming the lives of Indian citizens the MMS regime is mandated to "protect"? Not unlike the Khalistanis, LTTE and other gifts of "political expediency" to the Indian people by previous Congress regimes. Though at least those regimes had the grace to show some spine with regard to Pakistan... which is evidently not possible at any cost for the MMS regime.

[jamwal]

Yindoo Baniyas and Brahmins are responsible for all the evil that is Yindia. Shudras are the weak oppressed class just waiting to embrace Islam. Where does that leave Khsatriyas ? Are Khsatriyas as evil as Brahmins or Baniyas ?
Is there any ranking scale of evilness of castes in India ? Are other religions of Indian origin..Jainism, Sikhism and Buddhism as evil ?

[sanjaykumar]

According to uncofirmed reports, the Taliban had dumped the heads of the two victims at a Gurudwara in Peshawar.


Is this in accordance with Islam? Are Pakistanis proud of this act?

[jamwal]

Nobody was ashamed when Sikhs were forced to pay jaziya to Taliban. It must be a proud moment for most Bakis. Surrender by Niyazi to Aurora is avenged

[A_Gupta]

Now why would you *want* to take left wing terrorism out of the graph, sir? Don't you think the MMS regime's going to bed with Left parties in '04-'09 might have had something to do with the spike in yet another type of terrorism claiming the lives of Indian citizens the MMS regime is mandated to "protect"? Not unlike the Khalistanis, LTTE and other gifts of "political expediency" to the Indian people by previous Congress regimes. Though at least those regimes had the grace to show some spine with regard to Pakistan... which is evidently not possible at any cost for the MMS regime.

Because what Sanku was talking about was specifically "the HUGE spike in attacks directly by Pakistani elements in India over last 6 years", and because that is what this thread is about - "Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010".

[Rudradev]

Nobody was ashamed when Sikhs were forced to pay jaziya to Taliban. It must be a proud moment for most Bakis. Surrender by Niyazi to Aurora is avenged

Oh Niyazi has been avenged many times over.

In 2004 the GOI was telling the Pakis: no dialogue resumption unless we can verify that you have ceased firing across the LoC, that infiltration is down and that terrorist camps in PoK have closed down.

Then came the regime change in Delhi.

Today the GOI is desperately pursuing dialogue with the Pakis: even though TSPA has resumed regularly firing across LoC in support of infiltrators, terrorist violence by Pakis has gone up in J&K, and AK Antony has verified that 32 terror camps in POK are fully operational!

Yet some claim that Manmohan Singh is "no worse" at dealing with Pakistan than previous PMs. A very selective memory on their part!

[A_Gupta]

Then came the regime change in Delhi.

Sorry, then came an election. If you're frustrated at being in the minority and that frustration discredits the GOI, then permit the same to every other type of minority as well.

There was no "regime change" in Delhi, as commonly understood.

"Regime change" is the replacement of one regime with another. While it is widely believed that the term was first coined by former US President Bill Clinton,[1] use of the term dates to at least 1925.[2]

Regime change can occur through conquest by a foreign power, revolution, coup d'état or reconstruction following the failure of a state. Regime change may replace all or part of the state's existing institutions, administrative apparatus, bureaucracy and other elements.

....
The term regime change is sometimes erroneously used to describe a change in the government of the day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regime_change

[Rudradev]

Now why would you *want* to take left wing terrorism out of the graph, sir? Don't you think the MMS regime's going to bed with Left parties in '04-'09 might have had something to do with the spike in yet another type of terrorism claiming the lives of Indian citizens the MMS regime is mandated to "protect"? Not unlike the Khalistanis, LTTE and other gifts of "political expediency" to the Indian people by previous Congress regimes. Though at least those regimes had the grace to show some spine with regard to Pakistan... which is evidently not possible at any cost for the MMS regime.

Because what Sanku was talking about was specifically "the HUGE spike in attacks directly by Pakistani elements in India over last 6 years", and because that is what this thread is about - "Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Jan. 29, 2010".

Sorry, but there is no terrorist activity in India that does not enjoy the support of the Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Surely no one would argue that the Maoist terrorists are manufacturing sophisticated weapons in the cottage industries of oppressed tribal villages. Or that they were born knowing how to use effective guerilla tactics.

If even BRF is becoming so clouded as to discount the involvement of TSPA/ISI in all anti-India terrorism, I can only attribute this to the MMS regime's happy eagerness to swallow Pakistani bilge regarding "non state actors".

[Rudradev]

Then came the regime change in Delhi.

Sorry, then came an election. If you're frustrated at being in the minority and that frustration discredits the GOI, then permit the same to every other type of minority as well.

[/quote]

As it happens there is a lot more evidence, clearly visible to those who aren't wilfully ignoring it, that discredits the GOI more damningly than any one individual's frustration ever could.

It is however a hallmark of those who want to justify-at-any-cost the MMS regime's surrender-at-all-cost, to insist that the argument should not be focused on the GOI's evident failings. Instead it should focus on the alleged "frustration" of individuals criticizing the regime, be they Swapan Dasgupta, Brajesh Mishra or specific BRF members.

But at least the MMS apologists' behaviour can be forgiven as arising from the bankruptcy of any genuine arguments they might have. What is the MMS regime's excuse?

[Guddu]

The US can make or break thinga for India (and Pakistan) in an India Pakistan conflict. Pakistan will not go down until the US is taken down.

I am not too sure about that, we need 1) someone with a spine, 2) We cannot at the same time be unfriendly with the Russians. Iran gets away with a lot..with minimal Russian support. The US does not have that kind of moral standing on Af-Pak affairs to punish us very much at all. Infact, if necessary, we could create a tempest in Af-Pak.

[Fidel Guevara]

Bilawal absconding in Young Pakis Leadership Conference

The venerable Oxford Union had a discussion on Pakistan's leadership future, and lots of guest speakers from the PPP and wannabe-PPP leaders were there, allegedly "discussing" the current "state" of Pakistan, and what (if anything) can be done to make things "better". One notable absence...Mr. Bill! The reply of the PPP wallah is indicative of their dismissive opinion towards any "thinkers".