Poll: Views on Wagah border ceremony

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Feb 2010 07:40

Folks watch the videos below and please vote on what you feel about the Wagah border ceremony. One choice per user. Poll runs 15 days. I have voted first.

1) Wagah border ceremony
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ0ue-XGl9c

2) Monty Python
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 26 Feb 2010 07:50

It is an earth shattering event.

maybe this caused the earthquake in nearby POK recently.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 26 Feb 2010 08:44

The exaggerated movements of the drill is like a circus!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Feb 2010 09:03

krisna wrote:It is an earth shattering event.

maybe this caused the earthquake in nearby POK recently.

Well frankly - those men who lift their feet to head level and then band them down are young and fit, but the fact is that kind of repeated banging will cause damage to the bones and joints of the foot and knee which will reflect after two decades or more. Training for sports or for the armed forces is one thing. But getting men to do this just because Pakis want to be equal equal with India is silly.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 26 Feb 2010 09:04

I say don’t open the gate, keep it firmly closed.

Let all pakistaniyat rot within the musharraf.

And yes blare Dinesh Lal Nirahu ji’s "Tu sala kam say gaya...." at full volume, 24/7

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Feb 2010 09:15

Just get rid of the ceremony. Those terrorists don't deserve the honor of a formal military drill. It might have made sense after the Partition but with the long slide towards jihadism by the terrorists no need to pander to their ego.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 26 Feb 2010 09:18

In keeping with the drive to modernise India, they should install an electronically controlled gate with guard posts operating it remotely from 100 meters inside Indian territory.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Feb 2010 09:21

vera_k wrote:In keeping with the drive to modernise India, they should install an electronically controlled gate with guard posts operating it remotely from 100 meters inside Indian territory.

..and keep one of those anti-materiel rifle armed robots to shoot any Paki who is more than 0.2 seconds late in closing his gate.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 26 Feb 2010 09:25

Yes! No point risking an outbreak of Paki love or a labour strike by the gate operator! But seriously, it would be a good excuse to retire the ceremony.

archan · Post by **archan** » 26 Feb 2010 09:38

It is a waste of time and resources. Not to mention, an unnecessary strain on the guys' bodies. The same guys should be practicing to kill the un-uniformed paki armymen trying to cross over. The more eyes on the border, the better.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 26 Feb 2010 10:32

Kya Pakistan or India Tom and Jerry hain?
http://forum.dawn.com/2010/02/25/kya-pa ... erry-hain/
They have the WBC picture like above.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 26 Feb 2010 11:33

archan wrote:It is a waste of time and resources.

Compare it with other ceremonies like "Changing of the Guards at Buckingham Palace" etc. That too serves only purely ceremonial purpose, but it is still done with great pomp and splendour. No need for the foot stomping and aggressive gestures, but the let the ceremony remain.

There is no major resource crunch because of this, nor there is waste of time. There are guard changes done in a ceremonial fashion in all CPO and Army regiments. There is a guard practise done every time, before a new guard takes charge. The drill practise for this ceremony would also be similar.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Feb 2010 12:28

Sachin there are ten million places in India where we can have a ceremony but on the Paquistan border it becomes a competitive lungi dance because Pakbarians want show they are better. I believe we should not give the terroristanis a chance. No ceremony IMO.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 26 Feb 2010 12:31

Sachin wrote:
archan wrote:It is a waste of time and resources.
Compare it with other ceremonies like "Changing of the Guards at Buckingham Palace" etc. That too serves only purely ceremonial purpose, but it is still done with great pomp and splendour. No need for the foot stomping and aggressive gestures, but the let the ceremony remain.

There is no major resource crunch because of this, nor there is waste of time. There are guard changes done in a ceremonial fashion in all CPO and Army regiments. There is a guard practise done every time, before a new guard takes charge. The drill practise for this ceremony would also be similar.

OK.

Let it be done if it helps.

But not in the present manner where they are but jackasses in uniform doing a drill that is most embarrassingly comic and utterly stupid!

Changing of Guard anywhere, be it Buckingham Palace or in India, is done with military decorum. Do it so at Wagah if you wish. However, don't do it as if they are unemployed oversized clowns who have just landed from Gemini Circus.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Feb 2010 12:37

RayC wrote:
OK.

Let it be done if it helps.

But not in the present manner where they are but jackasses in uniform doing a drill that is most embarrassingly comic and utterly stupid!

Saar, the nautanki has to be tailored to suit the audience from the other side

.

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 26 Feb 2010 13:24

It is a great spectacle, if you do not intellectualize the whole thing! I had a good time when I went there. The vendors there were also having a good time. Why kill it? I would rather advertise it as the most 'popular border ceremony' or something like that and make it even bigger.

However, the crowd control was pathetic. The parade guys should be rotated to not hurt themselves.

skaranam · Post by **skaranam** » 26 Feb 2010 13:28

My dad specifically chose to see the border ceremony @ Wagah while on a north India pilgrimage tour conducted by IRCTC. Please note, this ceremony was not on the schedule. He made time for this. On being asked, why? - It celebrates India. It is nice and gives a good feeling. It brings in the idea that We are Indians. We do not many symbols which are obvious that celebrate the concept of India. My own experience is i saw India in a different light, when i left India in 1993.

Bhima · Post by **Bhima** » 26 Feb 2010 14:12

I would wish that this gate is closed without any fanfare but considering the enthusiatic crowds it attracts I guess some Indians have a love for Pakistan I cannot fathom. Would the relatives of civilians murdered by Pakistani terrorists want to go cheer on this ostentatious display?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 26 Feb 2010 14:34

Bhima wrote:I would wish that this gate is closed without any fanfare but considering the enthusiatic crowds it attracts I guess some Indians have a love for Pakistan I cannot fathom. Would the relatives of civilians murdered by Pakistani terrorists want to go cheer on this ostentatious display?

No Indian who goes to Cheer at Wagah has any love for Paquis (I mean those who see the border ceremony) they are cheering Indians saying FU to the Paquis.

Let us at least get this clear.

Bhima · Post by **Bhima** » 26 Feb 2010 14:53

Surely spectators attach some level of importance to Pakistan by doing this? IMO best way to insult Pakis is to shun them. This ceremony does the exact opposite.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 26 Feb 2010 15:42

Bhima wrote:Surely spectators attach some level of importance to Pakistan by doing this? IMO best way to insult Pakis is to shun them. This ceremony does the exact opposite.

Not as long as any Indian institution is involved, if people are celebrating the Indian institution good for them.

Once we have a fat bald peon closing the gate, I am sure very few will want to see the same.

(note I voted to keep the ceremony -- but I agree with RayC that it would perhaps be nice to not have a style which is like the Paki's anymore now)

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 26 Feb 2010 15:56

RayC wrote:Changing of Guard anywhere, be it Buckingham Palace or in India, is done with military decorum. Do it so at Wagah if you wish.

The option would be to have a simple but military ceremony, in which the drill is the Indian standard drill (not the exagerated one), to shut the gates from Indian side. The guard falls in, some of them go and shut the gates (irrespective of Pakis keep theirs opened or not). And THEN lower the flags to the tune of "Retreat".

The ceremony today atleast makes people aware of a border town named "Wagah", and the BSF men who stand guard there. Using peons etc. to close the gates, would only make the whole thing irrelevant. IMHO.

NehraA · Post by **NehraA** » 26 Feb 2010 17:06

close the gate!!! and for those spectators who have come to get entertained ,build a small colloseum/stadium, dig a wide ditch in the middle ,throw a recently captured jehadi inside wearing paki rangers uniform(pathan suit). along with him put two mad dogs inside the ditch, now the crowds will surely get what they came for true "paisa vasuul"......peeple 2 peeple contact, sponsored by ToI aman ka pajama campaign
........out of topic but why are some of thes paki rangers parachute qualified

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 26 Feb 2010 20:01

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 26 Feb 2010 20:20

utube has videos of indian bloopers during the ceremony. atleast these things should not happen!

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 26 Feb 2010 20:21

Avinash R wrote:

How stupid and freakish he looks.

His bottom is exposed!

Check where that Paki bacchabaz is looking!

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 26 Feb 2010 20:27

^ He looks nice and smart, saluting and communicating with the pakistani ranger at the same time

Laathon ke bhoot baaton se nahi mante

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 26 Feb 2010 21:52

Instead of all the weird walking and posturing. A simple normal Army ceremony is required. I have been watching this ceremony since back in 1978 and it has become sort of a tourist spot. Anybody who visits Amritsar wants to see this ceremony (apart from normal golden temple, etc).

Right at the road where the gate is., the four corners have 1 indian 1 pakistan flag on both sides (indian and pakistani).

Every morning., the gate is opened at 10:00 AM and BSF Jawans go over to the Pakistani side to unfurl the Tricolor(at exactly the same time Pakistanis are doing the same on our side).

Then at 4:00 pm., the door is closed to Indian BSF Jawans go to the pakistani side to get the Tricolor down., flap it properly and escort it back to the Indian territory.

Thus the issue is not the "Gate Closure" but the issue is the respect of the Indian Flag., which is shown as one upmanship through out the history (now leading up to the weird march).

So!! I am all for the ceremony but reduce the show to a normal flag raising/lowering ceremony as celebrated in an average Indian army battalion in charge of a post. The show gets lots of tourists up there and all the stalls(newspaper, Tea, coffee, food, etc) close to the border do a very brisk business. sometimes there are so many people around 3:30 that BSF closes the road (last kilometer before border where you have to walk) for any more tourists.

BSF have built a very nice stadium style seating around the border and have lots of loud speakers around with very good songs (to reduce the pakistani noise). I have always heard patriotic songs like

Yeh desh hai veer jawano ka., etc. I think overall it is one of the very few and last places in India where you "feel proud of being Indian". Most of the tourist at Wagah are not Punjabis but people from all over India., I have heard Tamil, Kannada, Bangla, Gujarati, etc languages. I just wish the safety of the indian tourists as 4000 people gathered up in a stadium are a sitting duck from the pakistani side.

Pakistanis are even charging for their Show.

Avinash R · Post by **Avinash R** » 26 Feb 2010 21:56

SBajwa wrote:Pakistanis are even charging for their Show.

Who is the bania now?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Feb 2010 22:04

Bajwaji - the sad irony of this business is that this "feeling of pride in India" is being generated at a border with Pakistan - which necessarily links it with Pakistan. This is what bothers me.

Business at the border should not be difficult to generate. Build a mall with a multiplex theater showing Bollywood, video games and a bowling alley and amusement park next door and let the crowds pour in and let the Pakis gawk.

The problem is linking India pride to that border and allowing the Pakis to generate Paki pride from that and the rest of the world to do an equal equal.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 27 Feb 2010 00:29

Just end the ceremony

But not before kicking the Pacqui in the nuts when he raises his foot to his head level.

Chandra · Post by **Chandra** » 27 Feb 2010 00:36

Voted 'Just close the gate with no ceremony'

only because 'Just don't open the gates' option wasn't available.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 27 Feb 2010 01:06

only because 'Just don't open the gates' option wasn't available.

There are porters (blue and reds) that transfer the cargo from india to pakistan and vice versa.

Back in 2005, I asked the pakistani ranger/customs officer that checks your visa/etc at the gate (same where they have ceremony) that "Are these porters carrying the exports/imports" he replied that NO! We do not allow low quality Indian "Ghatia maal" stuff in our country., this stuff is for Afghanistan. (This was all in punjabi offcourse). Gates are opened for trade to Afghanistan and Iran.

But whole of Lahore can easily be decimated just from the Wagah Border with 10 batteries of Bofors guns and 10 of Pinaka rockets. Shalimar Bagh is only 15-18 kms from the wagah border and fort of lahore(heart) is about 21 kms.

So! the terrorism in India is because Indian government tolerates it.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 05 Mar 2010 20:47

http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/mar/ ... wagah1.htm

Yes, I refer to the 'tamasha' that is carried out at the Wagah border under the guise of flag-lowering ceremony. Those of us with armed forces background are aghast at the goose stepping, aggressive staring match that our BSF jawans indulge in with Pakistani Rangers. Flag lowering is a solemn ceremony and tradition goes back to the days when fighting used to end at sunset. But what happens at Wagah is caricature of this ceremony and does not sit well on a mature and confident nation.

The need and necessity for Pakistan to do all this is self evident. That country is founded on hate. But by participating in this mindless display of 'jingoism' (not confident nationalism), we Indians descend to the level of Pakistan.

Wagah is not the only border point where the tricolour flies. We have a similar post at Nathu La on the Indo-Tibet border, with Burma at Moreh and I am sure with Bangladesh as well as Nepal and Bhutan. To the best of my knowledge, this kind of tamasha does not take place at those places. Some years ago, the Chinese used to broadcast anti-India abuse in Hindi at Nathu La. But we never retaliated. Eventually the Chinese stopped their mischief.

India is a billion-strong country with a thriving economy is not in competition with Pakistan. We are certainly not at par in any respect. Then why do we give this opportunity to our recalcitrant neighbour to insult us? It is time the home minister instructed the BSF to move the flag post about 100 yards inside where we can carry out our own dignified ceremony. At the zero point itself, we should have normal defences and bunkers and BSF jawans posted in full battle gear. If Pakistan wants to continue its 'goosesteps' drill, so be it. We should refuse to be part of it all.

One hopes that this will be a first essential step in our disproportionate attention to our Western neighbour. One understands that Delhi being so close to the border there is the natural inclination to give more attention to Pakistan but must one billion people be held hostage by a bunch of people with a nostalgia for 'Lahori culture'?

Some time ago, a young general secretary of the Congress-- who is this had raised this very issue -- why do we pay so much attention to this epicentre of world terror? Well despite my not being a member of Indian International Centre in New Delhi, this sensible suggestion will find takers.

Looks straight from BRF

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 05 Mar 2010 20:56

I voted for the ceremony has uses.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 05 Mar 2010 21:19

krisna wrote:a young general secretary of the Congress-- who is this

Rahul Gandhi

India is giving too much importance to Pak

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 05 Mar 2010 21:24

Voted: get rid of ceremony.

Open a bar , employ full-bosomed female bartenders, subsidize drinks, play reggae music!

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 05 Mar 2010 21:53

Get rid of the weird march ceremony but not the flag raising/lowering., which should be kept just like rest of the countless places in India. Is flag raised/lowered daily on Parliament/Supreme court/Rasthrapati Bhawan?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 07 Mar 2010 03:17

Err,
Where did my post disappear to hain ji?
It was here right after RayC saar's post. Now it has disappeared just like pakistani soliders from the battlefield.

I was delighted when I logged on, and saw that I could vote once again. It turned out that my post was gone too!

luther_vick · Post by **luther_vick** » 07 Mar 2010 06:46

The ceremony is useless we should close the gates, In fact Pakis are more interested in closing gates forever, probably that's why they charge money.

Why give PA another chance to show their clueless citizens that they are Equal or better than Indians. Let poor pakizens spend there money on dearer food and not on useless showoffs.

BTW only went there once, stuck in traffic, was too late for ceremony, could manage to see some part of the shoe and some part of Turban and Endless traffic jam while going back.

My thoughts about the Indian side of the Wagah border ceremony: