Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

[arun]

The following links are background articles on Pakistan.

UNDERSTANDING PAKISTAN:

Jinnah's Pakistan: An Interview with MA Jinnah, and how the Pakistan of Yesterday is the Pakistan of Today
http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf

The above is the testimony of Ashley Tellis on Jan 28th 2009, to the US Senate Homeland Security Committee on LeT's global role. It is a good articulation of LeT's past and future trends.

Know Your Pakistan
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... /Shiv.html

The Monkey Trap: A synopsis of Indo-Pak relations
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... ayyam.html

PAKISTAN-FAILED STATE: an ebook that owes its origin and existence to BRF.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/EBOOKS/pfs.pdf

A landmark article that demolishes myths built up about Pakistan
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/papers8/paper710.html

Pakistani Role in Terrorism Against the U.S.A
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... yanan.html

Pakistani Education, or how Pakistan became what it is: Curricula and textbooks in Pakistan
http://www.sdpi.org/archive/nayyar_report.htm

Making Enemies, Creating Conflict: Pakistan's Crises of State and Society. A book written by Pakistanis on Pakistan.
http://members.tripod.com/~no_nukes_sa/Contents.html

Should Pakistan Be Broken Up? by Gul Agha
http://pakistan70.tripod.com/gul.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part I
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... art-1.html

PAKISTAN & TERRORISM:

The Ideologies of South Asian Jihadi Groups (Laskar-e-Taiba)
By Hussein Haqqani (journalist and Pak ambassador to US)
http://www.futureofmuslimworld.com/rese ... detail.asp

Pakistani sponsoring of Terrorism
http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/
http://pak-terror.freeservers.com/Terro ... y_Tool.htm

Terror Map: The Pakistani Hand
http://sify.com/news/specials/terrormap/?vsv=TopHP1

Ethnic cleansing in Pakistan - a statistical analysis
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/I ... idhar.html

A chronicle of genocide by the Pakistan army
http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html

Documentary video evidence of Pakistani genocide in Bangladesh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x-94U1bVUQ
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EBKlIUbpc ... re=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sMg9Ly9nK0g
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwPbkyZV ... re=related

Inside Jihad - How Pakistan sponsors terrorists in India
http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/ ... r_sb1.html

Pakistan's Role in the Kashmir Insurgency - Op-ed by Rand's Peter Chalk
http://www.rand.org/hot/op-eds/090101JIR.html

Alden Pyle in Pakistan, Part II
http://pundita.blogspot.com/2009/12/ald ... -upon.html

PAKISTAN TODAY:

On the Frontier of Apocalypse: Christopher Hitchens seminal article on Pakistan today
http://newsstuff.0catch.com/article5.htm

http://meaindia.nic.in/bestoftheweb/2002/10/14bow2.htm

A Slender Reed in Pakistan - Editorial in the Christian Science Monitor
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p08s03-comv.html

Seymour Hersh Interview
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_hersh.html

Pakistan's Nuclear Crimes (Wash. Post editorial)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... 2-2004Feb4

http://www.indiadefence.com/LOA07Aug04.htm

BOOK REVIEW Fulcrum of Evil: ISI-CIA-Al Qaeda Nexus
http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r1844.html

Article from Vinni Capelli - Foreign Policy Research Institute:
Containing Pakistan: Engaging the Raja-Mandala in South-Central Asia
http://www.fpri.org/orbis/5101/cappelli ... kistan.pdf

The videos are from this documentary: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/taliban/

A bomb at all cost By Ahmad Faruqui - a candid admission of the wars that Pakistan started against India.

Popular support for suicide bombings in pakistan.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 008_pg12_1
Survey by university students in karachi say 50% of respondents support suicide bombings in kashmir.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OWsmJIwe9Q4
"Descent into Chaos"
UC Berkeley Conversations with History, host Harry Kreisler talking with Pakistani Journalist Ahmed Rashid. 59 minutes 120 MB. It sums up Pakistan and lays bare all Pakistan's terrorist support and proliferation activities. **Note - he wants the US to solve Pakistan's Kashmir problem.

Pakistan on the brink: Video Link (must download)

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto telling Bangladeshis to "Go to Hell": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dsxfyxa ... re=related

IDSA's weekly summary of Pak Urdu Press:

http://www.idsa.in/pup
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Five installment series by Kapil Komireddi published in Frum Forum

Part I. Nov 16, 2009. “Pakistan In Crisis”.

Part II. Nov 18. 2009. “Pakistan: Origins of A Failed State”.

Part III. Nov 18, 2009. “Pakistan: It Could Not Succeed Unless India Failed”.

Part IV. Dec 06, 2009. “Pakistan: A Mecca for Radical Islam”.

Part V. Dec. 07, 2009. “Pakistan’s Army: Building a Nation for Jihad”

[arun]

The last page of the previous thread is here.

[arun]

Talks under way for N-deal with US: Haqqani

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... 520--bi-01

Talk of a civilian nuclear deal between the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the US appear to be heading the same way of that of the civilian nuclear deal with France. That is that all talk is hot air being blown by Pakistan .

It will be recollected that the Islamic Republic via their Foreign Minister loudly proclaimed to the world in May 2009 that a civilian nuclear deal with France was on after President Zardari’s visit there ( France wants India-style nuclear deal for Pakistan). That turned out to be a lot of hot air being blown by the Islamic Republic (France not for India-like nuclear pact with Pakistan):

US unaware of Pak request for civilian N-deal

Published: February 20, 2010

WASHINGTON – A senior Obama administration official on Thursday appeared unaware of any request from Pakistan about a civilian nuclear deal similar to the one US had with India, but said Islamabad’s concerns regarding its civilian and military needs were being addressed.

“I don’t know,” Assistant Secretary of State for Public Affairs Philip Crowley said when questioned at a news briefing about a statement made last week in Lahore by Pakistan’s Ambassador to the US Hussain Haqqani, saying the Pakistani government has started negotiating with the US for an agreement on nuclear technology. .................

The Nation

More confirmation that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Ambassador to the US was talking out of his musharraf when he said that talks for an India like nuclear deal with the US were on.

PTI quoting “a senior Administration official”:

"The United States is working closely with Pakistan to help meet its growing needs. Nuclear power is not currently part of our discussions,"

From here:

US refuses nuclear power plant to Pakistan

[arun]

Demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan:

Three killed, 26 injured in Karak suicide attack

[abhishek_sharma]

Non-tariff barriers hindering export to India

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -420-za-08

While there are no hindrances to the Indian imports to the country, Pakistan was facing non-tariff and para-tariff barriers for its exports to India, as a result Pakistani exports to India have been confined to a certain extent, the commerce ministry informed the foreign office ahead of the Pak- India secretaries-level talks scheduled to be held on Feb 25.

The trade issues forwarded to the foreign office said that India had put hindrances to the Pakistani exports, including non-tariff barriers like quality checks, travel restrictions and various other certifications, while the para-tariff barriers include local charges that are not part of national tariffs like octroi and other local taxes.

...

In the fiscal year 2003-04 Pakistani exports were $93.68 million, while the imports from India amounted to $382.67 million, whereas in the year 2008-09 the exports were $391.61 million and the imports from India reached the level of $1.20 billion.

...


“India has given the status of ‘Most Favourite Nation’ to Pakistan but has imposed various barriers along with it,” said an official of the commerce ministry, adding India has a local quota regime and a bureaucratic system to allocate import/export licenses.

Pakistan was importing raw material, chemicals, iron and steel, plastic, machinery and parts, pharma products and homeopathy medicines and edible items.

The main items of export to India are textile products, fresh fruits and vegetables, but the exporters faced administrative problems in India.

...

Movement of 14 items including onions, tomatoes, potatoes, iron and steel, garlic, sugar and cement have been allowed through this trade route.

“However poor infrastructure at the Indian side has been an issue faced by our truckers,” said the official of the ministry, adding that this issue has been raised with the Indian side on various occasions.

...

However, sources said that they expect that the main issues to be raised by the Indians in the talks are granting of MFN status to India.

[abhishek_sharma]

^ Pakis are whining about poor infrastructure in India.

[abhishek_sharma]

U.S. Strategy in Pakistan and Afghanistan
Speaker: Daniel Markey, Senior Fellow For India, Pakistan, and South Asia, CFR

http://www.cfr.org/publication/21531/me ... south_asia

KIM BARKER: We've read a lot lately and heard a lot about the arrest and capture of Mullah Baradar and some other leading figures from the Afghan Taliban in Pakistan. And I'm wondering what you're hearing about what this says about the ISI relationship with the U.S. and whether this actually means that Pakistan is now turning its back and turning against the Afghan Taliban.

DANIEL MARKEY: Yeah. Well, that was the buzz over there. You know, the first big arrest had taken place, I guess, days before we arrived, and people were just still very much trying to make sense of it.
I should start by saying, in Kabul, senior Afghan officials -- you know, speaking off the record -- but expressed complete disbelief that this arrest of Baradar or any of the others had any strategic meaning whatsoever. Their deep suspicion of Pakistani motives and activities certainly persists.

And so to the extent that they saw anything here, they were reading between the lines and looking for evidence of a Pakistan conspiracy, and you've been, you know, you're reading about this in the papers in terms of, you know, were the Pakistanis trying to take these guys off the table so that they wouldn't come and negotiate or do anything constructive or so that they could be controlled or protected or something else by the ISI.
So that was the state of mind in, certainly many quarters and influential quarters in Kabul.

And in Islamabad, I can say that we were strongly cautioned not to read too much into this when it comes to a broader Pakistani shift in strategic intent. This isn't to say that these -- this is not bad news. This is largely good news, and I don't think people were buying into the Afghan conspiracy that I just laid out entirely, but they certainly weren't to say that this was a major breakthrough in the U.S.-Pakistan relationship in quite the way that some of the more enthusiastic lines have come out here in Washington.

So I'd say somewhere in between. It probably has more to do with tactical-level cooperation. The New York Times has been reporting some of this sort of thing just sort of working-level ISI, CIA cooperation that may be bearing fruit but may not actually be indicative of a higher-order shift in intention to the Pakistani side.

...

QUESTIONER: Fine. I believe you also were in Pakistan and met with senior officials both at the security and political level. And as you know, the foreign secretary's meeting has just finished in New Delhi, and Indian commentators are already writing it off saying the Pakistani foreign secretary had said India doesn't lecture to us and, also, brought up the issue of terrorism at all.
In your meetings over in Islamabad, was there any kind of acknowledgement or any kind of dissipation, sort of dilution of the fact that India still remains sort of the primary security threat? Or that there is certainly this sort of existential internal terrorism threat because, obviously, the foreign secretary talks haven't gone off too well where India was expecting something more in terms of Pakistan trying to get a handle on the terrorism. But apparently, nothing had been brought up.

MARKEY: Yeah. We did actually have a chance to meet with Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir in Islamabad. And while I can't really characterize those discussions in detail, I can say that, across the board, there is, to my eye, relatively little shift in Pakistani attitudes about what India represents.

But there is certainly an understanding and a fear, a palpable fear that what happened after Mumbai -- after the last terrorist attack in Mumbai in November 2008 -- could happen again and would be very, very dangerous for Pakistan. So there's a desire to try to get out of the post-Mumbai rut, but that doesn't reflect some deeper shift in attitudes about, you know, the purported threat that India represents to Pakistan.

So I don't see a big shift there inside, and I think the foreign secretary's comments in New Delhi reflect a prickliness on the part of the Islamabad to, I think he said, being sermonized or something like that.

QUESTIONER: Yeah.
MARKEY: And that was pretty clear while we were there.
So they're open to talks, and they see talks as a way to try to reduce tensions with India, but they don't want to be pushed around.

...

MARKEY: And I think revealed what may be a relatively steady-state situation, which is to say, recurrent crises don't necessarily upset an underlying balance or equilibrium where the Pakistani military and intelligence essentially call the shots on foreign and defense policy, which has, you know, historically been the case.
And their position, which is a harder-line, more hawkish position, will be echoed by civilian authorities from the foreign secretary to the prime minister to the president. So you'll get less in the way of people on different pages and more civilians essentially towing the army's line. And that's, I think, what we're hearing in some of the kind of -- the pushing back by the foreign secretary in New Delhi sounds a lot like what we have traditionally heard out of the Pakistani army.

...

QUESTIONER: And a quick follow-up. Is there still this paranoia about India's role in Afghanistan?

MARKEY: The short answer would be yes, there is. And I think this -- really, I didn't see any significant shift there either. This is brought up -- I think it was brought up more frequently and more shrilly in the period shortly after Mumbai and has gradually dissipated.
I think that this was taken up as an argument for, well, if India is suffering attacks, we're suffering as well. So it was more of an arguing point than anything else. It didn't have to get deployed quite so much on this visit, but I think it's still widely believed.

...




QUESTIONER: Yeah. Can we have a second round? I'm Aziz Haniffa once again, Dan.
Dan, coming back to the India-Pakistan situation vis-a-vis Afghanistan, you know, Mike Mullen, for instance, on several occasions, has been talking about the fact that, you know, this sort of very contentious issue of referring to Kashmir but, of course, in terms of the whole India-Pakistan composite dialogue returning to what it was is essential in terms of even a U.S. strategy because it could probably call for the removal of troops from the border.
Where do you see this going? Do you have any optimism in terms of not just the composite dialogue being resurrected but the whole issue of this issue which the U.S. privately and publicly has said it's very essential in terms of even the U.S. strategy and the strategy in Afghanistan in general.

MARKEY: Yeah. Well, with respect to the overall kind of process of normalization and addressing the Kashmir dispute and so on, while it didn't figure as prominently in this particular trip, I can say that, personally, I am actually relatively optimistic about it because the basic structures in terms of interests and opportunities and trend lines that were apparent to President Musharraf several years ago and to both Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and to Prime Minister Vajpayee before him are still in place.

That is, that India is a rising power and has achieved that on the back of economic growth and is looking for ways to assert itself on the world stage and perceives that its dispute with Pakistan could be existential as a threat but also is an obstacle to India's continued rise and an obstacle that needs to be removed.

Pakistan, for its part, I think, has come to the recognition that the sorts of tools that it's tried to use in the past -- militancy, proxy war, terrorism, and appeals to the international community for referenda and so on -- have not yielded results and are unlikely to change the ground realities in terms of the basic demarcation on the map and the situation of the people in Kashmir.

Having reached those conclusions, the only thing left is to try to figure out a relatively good, face-saving way for both sides to declare victory and go on with their business. And I think that's basically where we were a couple of years ago.

That may not be popular in all quarters, and it certainly isn't in Pakistan, and some in India won't like it either. But that's basically where we were, and that's basically where we would be today, if not for the fact of weak and uncertain leadership in Islamabad which has not been able to pursue this.

And an army which has been inclined, under General Kayani, to want to keep its nose clean and not to go out on a limb in ways that might be unpopular because it had reached such a low level of popularity under the -- at the tail end of the Musharraf years.

So it's a matter of timing. So not so much whether but when, and the when probably won't happen as long as we continue to see these Mumbai-like events that set back the Indian side and keep them from being able to negotiate with the Pakistanis for good reason or on the Pakistani side, as long as we don't have a civilian leadership that is truly confident in its ability to do a deal or an army leadership that feels like, politically, it can weather such a deal and that it's in its interests. We don't have that right now.

So the best I think we can hope for in the near term is a return to formal dialogues because those are a good mechanism for reducing some of the tension between the two countries even if they don't actually begin to resolve, in any final sense, the dispute.

...

[abhishek_sharma]

Halting Steps in New Delhi

http://www.cfr.org/publication/21527/ha ... south_asia

3. Could India and Pakistan go to war again?

Yes. After the Mumbai attacks, the Indian government came under enormous pressure to respond. Another attack could increase the pressure further. Mumbai stole international headlines, but several major Indian metropolises were bombed throughout 2008: Jaipur in May; Ahmadabad and Bangalore in July; and New Delhi's most famous shopping area, Connaught Place, in September. India has carefully avoided blaming Pakistan for attacks two weeks ago in Pune, but political pressure will intensify in the event of a future attack. Indians are divided over the effectiveness of military options. Some argue that tough military measures contributed to subsequent breakthroughs in the backchannel negotiations. Others disagree.

Does the United States have a role?

Not an obvious one. Clearly, American interests are engaged by the possibility of war--and tension reduction is in the U.S. interest. But third-party intervention is utterly unwelcome in India. And it hasn't been especially conducive to breakthroughs in the past. Pakistan would certainly welcome greater U.S. involvement, but India would reject an American role outright. And a public U.S. role narrows the political space available for Singh to maneuver: Any peace package seen to have been reached under U.S. pressure would be dead on arrival in Indian politics. Barack Obama learned this lesson the hard way. As a candidate, he told TIME's Joe Klein that he would appoint a U.S. envoy to seek peace in Kashmir. As president, he quickly backed off after strenuous Indian objections. But some in his administration cling to the idea. And as I write in the new issue of Foreign Affairs, this remains a source of tension and one of five areas of difference that could threaten U.S.-India relations.

[abhishek_sharma]

PM’s interview with Saudi journalists

http://pmindia.nic.in/lprel.asp?id=1073

Q.11. Your stated position is that while India is ready to keep talking to Pakistan, the stalled peace process can resume only if Islamabad acts against the alleged planners of the Mumbai attack. With the announcement of resumption of dialogue on secretaries level, does this considered a change in the government stand. What will be the basis of the forthcoming dialogue ?

Ans.: There is no change in our position. We seek a peaceful and normal relationship with Pakistan. We should be good neighbours. In that quest we have consistently sought to engage those in Pakistan who are ready to work with us. There is no alternative to dialogue to resolve the issues that divide us. Today the primary issue is terrorism.

Q.12. How serious is the Pakistan Taliban threat to India, especially to Jammu & Kashmir which has bubbled up again. How could the Kashmir issue be solved once and for all?

Ans.: As a neighbour, we cannot remain immune to the rise of extremism and terrorism in Pakistan, or on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Extremism and terrorism are major threats not only to India, but also to Pakistan, and all its other neighbours. It is in our collective interest that we resolutely oppose, resist and overcome terrorism and all those who nurture, sustain and give sanctuary to terrorists and extremist elements.

It is a fact that Jammu and Kashmir and its people have suffered repeatedly at the hands of terrorism from across the border. This has militated against the will of the people of the State, who have time and again voted in large numbers in democratic elections to unambiguously reject violence. We have taken several measures for the development of Jammu and Kashmir, and for its people to live in peace and harmony, as in the rest of the country. In so far as our dialogue with Pakistan is concerned, we are ready to discuss all issues with them in an atmosphere free from terrorism."

[Avinash R]

'Future talks hinge on Pak actions'

‘Pakistan most threatening place in world’

[Lisa]

^ Pakis are whining about poor infrastructure in India.

Yes, their main export, terrorists, are being impeded by fences, soldiers,
policemen......

[Kati]

Demonstration of the IED Mubarak variant of the IEDology of Pakistan:

Three killed, 26 injured in Karak suicide attack

Toll is now 5.

By the way,
Police officials said the blast also toppled a mosque next to the police station

So muslims can't do this to muslims. Must be Yoondoos involved.......

[shravan]

One killed & 7 injured in attack on Pakistan religious rally

DERA ISMAIL KHAN: Gunmen opened fire on a religious procession in northwestern Pakistan Saturday, killing a man and wounding several others, officials said.

The attack came as thousands of Muslims staged rallies across the country to celebrate Eid Milad-un-Nabi, which marks the Prophet Mohammed's birthday.

Two or three armed men hiding behind the trees opened fire on hundreds of people carrying banners and reciting hymns in the Dhaki More neighbourhood of Dera Ismail Khan district, senior police officer Bashar Khan said.

The rally was organised by a Sunni Muslim party. No arrests were reported.

====

Terror plan foiled in Karachi

KARACHI: City police have foiled a terror plan on the occasion of Eid-e-Milad un Nabi, recovering two hand grenades from Numaish Chowrangi on Saturday.

According to police sources, on the indication of people present at Numaish Chowrangi, the police recovered two hand grenade bombs during the search.

[SSridhar]

‘Pakistan most threatening place in world’ US Congressmen

For the benefit of Pak lurkers who want to know all that is there to know about their country, and those article writers who want some quotable quotes, here are some more. For others, it is time to re-collect the epithets, adjectives used in describing Pakistan and opinions freely expressed:

" Unfortunately, our recognition in the comity of nations today is only as a ´ breeding ground ´ for religious extremism and militancy and as a country afflicted with a culture of violence and sectarianism. " Shamshad Ahmed, ex-Foreign Secretary, Pakistan

" Pakistan has everything that gives you an international migraine. It has nuclear weapons, it has terrorism, extremists... " Madeline Albright, Oct. 2008

" Let me be very clear. Today, virtually every major terrorist threat that my agency is aware of has threads back to the tribal areas " Michael Hayden, Director, CIA

" Why is it that all terrorist plots – from the Sept. 11 attacks, to Madrid, to London, to Mumbai – seem to have roots in Islamabad? " Ms. Benazir Bhutto, Washington Post, March 12, 2007

“Three quarters of the most serious plots investigated by the British authorities have links to al-Qaeda in Pakistan. The time has come for action, not words.” Gordon Brown, British Prime Minister, Islamabad, Dec., 15, 2008

For over a decade, India has been in the bull's eye of both al Qaeda and the global jihadist syndicate that has its hide outs in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Bruce Riedel, Chairman, Policy review Committee on Pakistan & Afghanistan

“Pakistan is on the top of the international community’s agenda for its internal conflicts and being home to potential terrorists”. Raymond Johansen, Dy. Foreign Minister, Norway, Mar. 2009

“. . . this country will drift from crisis to calamity, from calamity to catastrophe, and from catastrophe to disaster.” Perico, Duke of Amalfi, a former Spanish ambassador to Pakistan {This was said sometime in the late 50s. What a prescient statement}

''I don't have a lot of confidence that the Pakistani government has the will or the capability to take on the violent forces inside of their country,” Senator Carl Levin, Chairman, Senate Armed Services Committee, USA, Mar. 2009

"We all know the epicentre of terrorism in the world today is Pakistan. The world community has to come to grips with this reality." Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister, India, Apr. 2009

“The Pakistani military and police and intelligence service don't follow the civilian government; they are essentially a rogue state within a state.” David Kilcullen, Adviser, Gen. Petraeus

“I have absolutely no confidence in the ability of the existing Pakistan government to do one blessed thing,” David R. Obey, Chairman, House Appropriations Committee, April 2009

“There is a line of terror, a chain of terror that goes from Pakistan and the border areas of Afghanistan right back to the streets of all our countries” Gordon Brown, British Prime Minister, Addressing British Troops at Afghanistan, April 29, 2009

“This is not our army, this is not our government. They’re worse enemies of Muslims than the Americans.” Muslim Khan, Spokesperson, Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, Swat, referring to Pakistan and its Army.

“Pakistan is the headquarters of Al Qaeda’s senior leadership” Gen. David Petraeus, Commander, US CENTCOM, May 2009

“Russia and Asian allies have ‘legitimate concerns’ that terrorists could gain access to Pakistani nuclear weapons.” Vladimir Nazarov, Secretary, Russian Security Council, May 2009

“The main terrorist threat comes from Pakistan and Somalia – not Afghanistan.” Lord Malloch-Brown, Foreign Office Minister for Africa and Asia, UK, July 22, 2009

". . .the ultimate control of this conspiracy {August 2006 Trans-Atlantic Flights Bombing case} lay in Pakistan. . . the plot was run, monitored and funded from there." Justice Richard Henriques, Woolwich Crown Court, London, Sep. 14, 2009

“Homeland security begins in many instances abroad, and particularly what happens in Pakistan . . . ”, Janet Napolitano, Secretary, Homeland Security, US Government, Oct 2009

“. . . billions have gone down a rat hole in the past in Pakistan. . .”, Howard L Berman, House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman, Oct. 13, 2009

“We know that much of the training and direction for the terrorists comes from Pakistan” Ms. Hilary Clinton, Secretary of State, CNN Interview, Dec. 10, 2009

[SSridhar]

From the article, 'A Beloved Uncle' in this week's TFT, some interesting nuggets:

Colonel S.A.K. Chaudhry was the youngest son, born on 15th August 1928, to a Rajput family . . . True to their Kashatriya traditions, five of out of six brothers – they had just one sister – joined the army.

[negi]

Jai Ho , Eat your dils kaffirs

No alternative to dialogue with Pak: PM

NEW DELHI: In his first comment on the recent talks with Pakistan, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has said there was "no alternative" to dialogue to resolve issues which "divide us" and that India was ready to discuss all matters including Kashmir in an atmosphere free from terror.

Singh said India seeks "peaceful and normal relations" with Pakistan and "in that quest we have consistently sought to engage those in Pakistan who are ready to work with us."

In an interview to Saudi journalists ahead of his visit to Riyadh that began today, he said it was in the common interest of India and Pakistan to cooperate in fighting the menace of terrorism which hurts both.

"There is no change in our position... We should be good neighbours. There is no alternative to dialogue to resolve the issues that divide us," he said.

[kshirin]

‘Pakistan most threatening place in world’ US Congressmen

For the benefit of Pak lurkers who want to know all that is there to know about their country, and those article writers who want some quotable quotes, here are some more. For others, it is time to re-collect the epithets, adjectives used in describing Pakistan and opinions freely expressed:....

Wow, well-done, useful compilation.

[A_Gupta]

Quotes with missing dates added with the help of google.

" Unfortunately, our recognition in the comity of nations today is only as a ´ breeding ground ´ for religious extremism and militancy and as a country afflicted with a culture of violence and sectarianism. " Shamshad Ahmed, ex-Foreign Secretary, Pakistan Nov 24, 2007

" Pakistan has everything that gives you an international migraine. It has nuclear weapons, it has terrorism, extremists... " Madeline Albright, Oct. 2008

" Let me be very clear. Today, virtually every major terrorist threat that my agency is aware of has threads back to the tribal areas " Michael Hayden, Director, CIA Nov 13, 2008

" Why is it that all terrorist plots – from the Sept. 11 attacks, to Madrid, to London, to Mumbai – seem to have roots in Islamabad? " Ms. Benazir Bhutto, Washington Post, March 12, 2007

“Three quarters of the most serious plots investigated by the British authorities have links to al-Qaeda in Pakistan. The time has come for action, not words.” Gordon Brown, British Prime Minister, Islamabad, Dec., 15, 2008

For over a decade, India has been in the bull's eye of both al Qaeda and the global jihadist syndicate that has its hide outs in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Bruce Riedel, Chairman, Policy review Committee on Pakistan & Afghanistan Dec 3, 2008

“Pakistan is on the top of the international community’s agenda for its internal conflicts and being home to potential terrorists”. Raymond Johansen, Dy. Foreign Minister, Norway, Mar. 2009

“. . . this country will drift from crisis to calamity, from calamity to catastrophe, and from catastrophe to disaster.” Perico, Duke of Amalfi, a former Spanish ambassador to Pakistan {This was said sometime in the late 50s. What a prescient statement}

''I don't have a lot of confidence that the Pakistani government has the will or the capability to take on the violent forces inside of their country,” Senator Carl Levin, Chairman, Senate Armed Services Committee, USA, Mar. 2009

"We all know the epicentre of terrorism in the world today is Pakistan. The world community has to come to grips with this reality." Manmohan Singh, Prime Minister, India, Apr. 2009

“The Pakistani military and police and intelligence service don't follow the civilian government; they are essentially a rogue state within a state.” David Kilcullen, Adviser, Gen. Petraeus March 23, 2009

“I have absolutely no confidence in the ability of the existing Pakistan government to do one blessed thing,” David R. Obey, Chairman, House Appropriations Committee, April 2009

“There is a line of terror, a chain of terror that goes from Pakistan and the border areas of Afghanistan right back to the streets of all our countries” Gordon Brown, British Prime Minister, Addressing British Troops at Afghanistan, April 29, 2009

“This is not our army, this is not our government. They’re worse enemies of Muslims than the Americans.” Muslim Khan, Spokesperson, Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan, Swat, referring to Pakistan and its Army. May 2009

“Pakistan is the headquarters of Al Qaeda’s senior leadership” Gen. David Petraeus, Commander, US CENTCOM, May 2009

“Russia and Asian allies have ‘legitimate concerns’ that terrorists could gain access to Pakistani nuclear weapons.” Vladimir Nazarov, Secretary, Russian Security Council, May 2009

“The main terrorist threat comes from Pakistan and Somalia – not Afghanistan.” Lord Malloch-Brown, Foreign Office Minister for Africa and Asia, UK, July 22, 2009

". . .the ultimate control of this conspiracy {August 2006 Trans-Atlantic Flights Bombing case} lay in Pakistan. . . the plot was run, monitored and funded from there." Justice Richard Henriques, Woolwich Crown Court, London, Sep. 14, 2009

“Homeland security begins in many instances abroad, and particularly what happens in Pakistan . . . ”, Janet Napolitano, Secretary, Homeland Security, US Government, Oct 2009

“. . . billions have gone down a rat hole in the past in Pakistan. . .”, Howard L Berman, House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman, Oct. 13, 2009

“We know that much of the training and direction for the terrorists comes from Pakistan” Ms. Hilary Clinton, Secretary of State, CNN Interview, Dec. 10, 2009

[Sen_K]

Unkil says no to India type nuke deal with TSP

The US has categorically told Pakistan that it would not get any atomic power plant or civilian nuclear deal on the lines of the one signed with India.

"The United States is working closely with Pakistan to help meet its growing needs. Nuclear power is not currently part of our discussions," a senior Administration official told PTI.

Leaders of Pakistan, who have been pitching hard for a nuclear power plant, have been told about it recently.

The senior Administration official, preferring anonymity, said the US has also told Pakistan that there is no way that they can get a civilian nuclear deal similar to the one the Obama Administration has signed with India.

The Indo-US civilian nuclear deal is specific to India only and there is no thinking going on in the Administration to create a template for it, the official said.

[Sen_K]

Quotes with missing dates added with the help of google.

Unfortunately, our recognition in the comity of nations today is only as a ´ breeding ground ´ for religious extremism and militancy and as a country afflicted with a culture of violence and sectarianism. " Shamshad Ahmed, ex-Foreign Secretary, Pakistan Nov 24, 2007
....

Nice effort Sridhar saab. This is a great reference. Can it be posted elsewhere, where it can looked up easily, rather than being in the middle of this thread?

[shiv]

Nice effort Sridhar saab. This is a great reference. Can it be posted elsewhere, where it can looked up easily, rather than being in the middle of this thread?

I second that. Could it be added to the first post of every Pakistan thread? Along with Arun Gupta's dates.

[Suppiah]

Excellent collection - One more addition - the German ambassador that said something about 'if you dont pay us we will blow ourselves up' cant find the link...I am sure Karzai would also said many things nice about TSP - good to get 'Islamic' sources that will hurt H&D even more...shall look around..

[shiv]

Just had a thought..

A stable Pakistan is in India's interest right?
But anything that is in India's interest is not in Paquistaan's interest.
Therefore Pakistan must remain unstable., so that Indian interests are not served.

That is fine in some ways. Under no circumstances should India be looking at "human development" in Pakistan like birth control, eradication of poverty, a modern education system etc. How silly of me to imagine that these things are necessary and good for Pakistan. -5 to me.

In many ways I believe my own attitude has been wrong. Why the hell should an India point out to Pakis what is wrong with them. They might learn no? And that is dangerous. Pakistan must rot. It must get to 250 million. Already i can see the Pakistani army funded by its 3.5 allies in full control of that abomination. No need to worry.

Having said that i would prefer machine gun armed robots slaved to IR and radar signals at the border that shoot anything that moves along the fence

[Altair]

Having said that i would prefer machine gun armed robots slaved to IR and radar signals at the border that shoot anything that moves along the fence

Have a look at this video.


If we can deploy these automated sentry guns every 500 meters along the major infiltration routes along the LOC where its difficult to patrol we can have lot of fun

[A_Gupta]

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto wrote a "If I am assassinated..." while in prison. A copy on scribd.com that purports to be this has this:

Civilization means civilian supremacy. Military coup d'etats are a disaster. Even in the Pakistan of Europe, Adolf Hitler did not seize power through a coup d'etat. He won a "rigged" election.

To be fair, one should note the previous discussion is of Ayub Khan's comments on the similarities of Pakistan and Prussia. Still, Nazi Germany as "the Pakistan of Europe" is a very delicious image. And for Indians, it rings true.

[anupmisra]

K'rachi Logic

Pakistani private TV plays have become more glamorous and vulgar as against the characteristics of Pakistani society. They have been influenced by Indian private TV channels. Which is a dangerous trend because Indian society is a secular one and that is the reason why its plays lack decency and virtues of life.

[Gagan]

Having said that i would prefer machine gun armed robots slaved to IR and radar signals at the border that shoot anything that moves along the fence

Have a look at this video.

They'll be vulnerable to mortar / artillery fire.
But having said that, a few of these on telescopic cranes are a must to take out urban terror, hostage situations. They are great for border areas, and they might be hidden behind bushes and strategically located.

On google earth, the main terror infiltriating routes are either heavy jungles, with high hills and deep gorges, which are very difficult to man and patrol 24x7.

This tech is not at all difficult, well within DRDO's abilities. A few of these controlled from a truck. There are a lot of trigger happy, video game expert jingos, who could volunteer to man the joysticks.

[jamwal]

U.S. lawmakers get details of Pakistan aid plan

The Obama administration sent lawmakers this week a plan for $1.45 billion in aid for Pakistan this year, funding water, energy and other projects as well as a media campaign to counter extremist views.

Counter extremist views..?? Print and distribute this thread all over .

[Altair]

On google earth, the main terror infiltriating routes are either heavy jungles, with high hills and deep gorges, which are very difficult to man and patrol 24x7.
This tech is not at all difficult, well within DRDO's abilities. A few of these controlled from a truck. There are a lot of trigger happy, video game expert jingos, who could volunteer to man the joysticks.

We have almost 550 KM length of territory which needs this type of sentry's. We already have high fences with mines and thermal scanners. This kind of stuff also can be very handy. They have been effective in DMZ in North and South Korea. Military need to ask the Govt to provide them to contain infiltration(if it works)
We need to strengthen our muscle instead of wasting time in firing space based--ultra sophisticated--state-of-the-art dossiers with a range of zillion kilometers

[csharma]

Hamid Gul and Mushahid Hussain waxing eloquent on how Pakistan is triumphant in Afganhistan now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYWeBMG6phs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk4K6X12PdA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKh99yMjhYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMpkt0jmaRE

[asprinzl]

For a manpower rich country like India, high tech is not the answer. India needs volunteers like the Cossacks in Russia. The only way to reduce the effects of anti-India activities eminating from Pak is satan is by hurting and slowly reducing and eventually eliminating the elements that perpetrate it. The element is the Rape class.

This class uses religion to keep in line the 80 percent to 90 percent of the population (who are illiterate) so that these illiterate abduls will never threaten the Rapes' hold on the land and wealth. These abduls must be let loose and set upon the Rape class. The Rape class must be devoured beginning from the fringes.

Unfortunately, it is this same class that is doing the Aman Ki bull$hit stuff and again unfortunately it is the illiterate abduls who are sent across the frontier as canon fodder to be turned into fertilizer.

For the interest of Indian security this Aman Ki Bull$hit stuffs are not going to work, deploying robots designed to kill will not work either coz livestocks would be killed too, not to mention some unfortunate Indian who wander into kill zones.

India must reach out to these abduls and drive a cleavage between them and the Rapes. It is not possible through the Aman Ki Bull. The Rapes will not let that happen. The only way I see is through the airwaves. Radio programs.

Unfortunately, I feel the Indias Rape equivalent or DIE (Desi Indian Elites) will not agree to this radio broadcasting stuffs for many see too much commonalities with the Pak Rape class. After all it is these groups that are really up-beat about the Aman Ki Bakri-dung nonsense. This has to be a private endeavor.

With the wide network of people and resources one would think that folks from Shiv Sena and their likes would try to do something similar but apparently cowardice and retardedness seem to prevail. They would rather go about bashing fellow Indians.

Avram

[Pranav]

This class uses religion to keep in line the 80 percent to 90 percent of the population (who are illiterate) so that these illiterate abduls will never threaten the Rapes' hold on the land and wealth. These abduls must be let loose and set upon the Rape class. The Rape class must be devoured beginning from the fringes.

A excellent idea ... What might be the best way to do it? A secular socialist movement, or some kind of ultra-Islamist TTP that declares the RAPEs to be Munafiqs?

It would be nice to see the RAPEs being thrown out of their mansions and farm-houses by the Abduls.

In provinces other than Pakjab, ethnic oppression must also be highlighted.

Unfortunately, I feel the Indias Rape equivalent or DIE (Desi Indian Elites) will not agree to this radio broadcasting stuffs for many see too much commonalities with the Pak Rape class. After all it is these groups that are really up-beat about the Aman Ki Bakri-dung nonsense. This has to be a private endeavor.

With the wide network of people and resources one would think that folks from Shiv Sena and their likes would try to do something similar but apparently cowardice and retardedness seem to prevail. They would rather go about bashing fellow Indians.

Brilliant observations about Indian elites (including the so-called Hindu parties like the Shiv Sena). In India, most big business folks have a severely limited vision.

[Prem]

From the article, 'A Beloved Uncle' in this week's TFT, some interesting nuggets:

Colonel S.A.K. Chaudhry was the youngest son, born on 15th August 1928, to a Rajput family . . . True to their Kashatriya traditions, five of out of six brothers – they had just one sister – joined the army.

What the hell, are they trying to say they were not seeded by Muhammad Bin Qasim or his gang member by the way of FULO method which latter morphed into GUBO technique? Hi Paki, you aint Kashatriya or Rajput, you blood is tainted by Arab, Persian or God know how many retraded TDHs from the West side, a black spot on Kshatriya duty and tradition.

[Gerard]

Taking US for a ride

The process began in earliest stage of the Cold War. Visiting the US in 1950, Pakistan’s Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan proclaimed his country’s alignment with America. Pakistan’s priority, however, was fighting India and not communism. Mr Husain Haqqani, currently its Ambassador to the US, writes in Pakistan: Between Mosque and Military, “The United States was Pakistan’s great-power patron of choice, crucial as a source of weapons and economic aid.” Mr Haqqani further states, “In one of its first overtly political initiatives, Pakistan’s intelligence community fabricated evidence of a Communist threat to Pakistan to get US attention.” It was, however, not the only one of its kind. Ms Ayesha Jalal writes in The State of Martial Rule, “Since the ceasefire in Kashmir, the Joint Services Intelligence had been fabricating increasingly bizarre reports about the fledgling Communist Party and its purported plans to destabilise Pakistan.”

Under President Dwight D Eisenhower, the US sought to contain the Soviet Union and China by establishing a string of military bases in the adjoining countries. According to Mr Haqqani, Pakistan’s military pushed for establishing a formal treaty relationship with the US and became a member of the Baghdad Pact (later Central Treaty Organisation) and the South Asia Treaty Organisation. While Washington pumped economic and military aid into Pakistan, its expectation “of a centrally-positioned landing site for possible operations against the Soviet Union and China was not met”. According to Ms Shirin Tahir Kheli in The United States and Pakistan: The Evolution of an Influence Relationship, Gen Ayub Khan, then Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistani Army, kept tantalising Washington “with possible offers of such facilities and manpower only if the price was ‘right’.” Mr Haqqani writes, “The United States had to be content with looking upon its investment in Pakistan as one that would bear fruit only over time. Ayub Khan’s bargaining for greater military and economic assistance became a norm for its successors.”

[CRamS]

Hamid Gul and Mushahid Hussain waxing eloquent on how Pakistan is triumphant in Afganhistan now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYWeBMG6phs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk4K6X12PdA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKh99yMjhYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMpkt0jmaRE

For those of us who are Urdu challenged, especially the TSP dialect, could you kindly summarize the juicy, delusional tit-bits?

[CRamS]

With the wide network of people and resources one would think that folks from Shiv Sena and their likes would try to do something similar but apparently cowardice and retardedness seem to prevail. They would rather go about bashing fellow Indians.

Not only that, Shiv Sena and other loud-mouthed right wing louts bring out the worst in terms of false equivalenecs and self flagellations among ordinary Hindus and Indian RAPEs alike. Just go back to the immediate aftermath of Mumbai; NYT published a lot of equal equal readers letters; the most outrageous from some Hindu female, most likely the Ananga or Sarmila type, who was furious that India would demand Pakis clamp down on LeT when right-wing Hindu groups (her words) freely operate in India. And this is pervasive among the RAPEs, both TSP and India, both NRI and RNI. In one self goal stroke, Indians undercut themselves, and hand over TSP a huge propaganda victory.

[vera_k]

the most outrageous from some Hindu female

Isn't this an assumption? Alongwith being non-Indians, most likely these types are non-Hindus who did not change their name.

[brihaspati]

One way to drive a wedge is to propose "land reforms" and land redistribution to the "poor" Abdul if they agree to vote for dissolution of their Occupation Government and merge with India. Even in the future, when OWI is overrun, the first act should be to declare "land reforms". Take land from the "feudals" and redistribute to the marginal/landless.

[Rudradev]

With the wide network of people and resources one would think that folks from Shiv Sena and their likes would try to do something similar but apparently cowardice and retardedness seem to prevail. They would rather go about bashing fellow Indians.

Avram

To pin any kind of hope on the Shiv Sena, misses the point that like most political parties with middle-class support the Shiv Sena is ultimately status-quoist. They are not the solution to the impassivity of the political elite; they aspire only to be part of it.

The Shiv Sena became kings of their particular hill and then realpolitik prevailed. So they have arrived at understandings with other political-elite players about a mutual respect of turf. That's all they want. They are about as "Hindu" as the CPI(M) is "Communist".

Those who are in fact ideologically motivated to go beyond the status quo... such as Sadhvi Pragya and Colonel Purohit... pose more of a threat to the Indian elite (because of their unwillingness to play ball and make compromises as the Shiv Sena does). Hence they are politically persecuted by the ruling elite through judicial instruments that were (ironically) developed to fight terrorism against the Indian state.

It is from such ideologically-driven organizations as Abhinav Bharat ... not from the Shiv Sena... that volunteers motivated enough to take on the RAPE in their holes could arise. Yet the ruling elite in India fears that ideologically-driven actors would eventually destabilize the perpetuation of their own corrupt misgovernance, and hence mark such actors out for elimination and repression before they can be developed or utilized against our real enemies.

This is why India will never have its own Menachem Begins, Ben Gurions or Moshe Dayans. The ruling elite here is too invested in a status quo ever to tolerate the rise of such people. In Israel, by contrast, they could flourish. As a brand new state with plenty of existential opposition but no baggage of status quo, Israel needed these fighters more than it needed to placate a corpulent business elite or sustain a dynastic governing class.

India needs these fighters too, and our elites are the reason we will never get them.

Perhaps the only hope, then, lies with the only group that have in fact been able to bring justice to seven of the '93 Mumbai Blasts perpetrators: the Chhota Rajan gang. These actors have stepped outside the law, so they engage with the status quo on their own terms. Yet they have demonstrably been motivated enough to rid the nation of terrorists who owe their allegiance to Pakistan.

So, when hundreds more Indian lives have been sacrificed to Pakistan's "war of a thousand cuts" while the Government persists with talks, placates western interests and ensures its own perpetuation through the circus of populist Indian politics today... while Indian elites nod and wink at the RAPE and play along with the fiction that all Pakistani terrorism is carried out by a fringe of economically deprived lunatics...what option will be left to private citizens of India, other than to countenance terrorist slaughter while the GDP allegedly rises?

Perhaps they will have no choice but to dig into their private savings, and take up a collection for an offering of betel-nut to the RAPE?

[ramana]

One way to drive a wedge is to propose "land reforms" and land redistribution to the "poor" Abdul if they agree to vote for dissolution of their Occupation Government and merge with India. Even in the future, when OWI is overrun, the first act should be to declare "land reforms". Take land from the "feudals" and redistribute to the marginal/landless.

It was this pledge by INC that forced the land owners in TSP areas to band together and claim Islam is in danger and consolidate behind the Muslim League.