Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

[Malayappan]

At FS talks, Pak said call in Ministers next, India said no in IE. Provides a glimpse on Indian thinking

[Malayappan]

Water row: India to put facts before world from the IE

According to New Delhi’s assessment, Pakistan’s water troubles are an outcome of its own “poor water management” although Indus, Jhelum and Chenab (rivers belonging to Pakistan) have four times more water than Ravi, Beas and Sutlej (rivers belonging to India)

Pakistan has not built enough water storage capacity and is, therefore, leaving surplus water go completely unutilised. This is, therefore, giving rise to water scarcity in the face of a rapidly growing population in Pakistan

[archan]

I wonder if they should even bother clarifying. Are we going to answer any and every wild allegation the pakis - whose value to the world is basically nuisance - throw at us with a hope to get some more baksheesh?

[arnab]

At FS talks, Pak said call in Ministers next, India said no in IE. Provides a glimpse on Indian thinking

I think this just shows how impotent the Indian leadership is and how TSP has us by the b@%%s. This is being done with the help of unkil who are as usual playing a double game and MMS is merely acquising to the long term plan of handing over Cashmere to them. Couldn't Nirupama Rao have said that - boss forget 'ministers', I will send suman s and and few other sukhoi women to bomb the cr@p out of isloo if there are any more terror attacks.

[SSridhar]

DT Letter

This is with reference to Babar Ayaz’s article, ‘Plain talk by Indian visitors’ (Daily Times, March 2, 2010). Siddharth Varadarajan makes the same suggestion in his recent article, ‘Water as the carrier of concord with Pakistan’ (The Hindu, February 25, 2010) to use the water issue as the main plank to search for peaceful coexistence in the Subcontinent. As a lower riparian, the state that gets water from the Indian-controlled areas, Pakistan, needs to primarily understand that there are a lot of external issues that affect the water flow into their country.

Varadarajan writes: “Costs incurred by the upper riparian on responsible watershed management will produce disproportionate benefits for the lower riparian, hence they are not incurred.”

There is no word of threat in all this. All we are saying is, please stop attacks on our economic assets, like Mumbai. We can cooperate with each other to have better water flow into Pakistan. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said the same thing to the Saudi ministers recently. He also said that if Pakistan were to stop supporting terrorists, we in India would walk that extra mile:

1. We can remove the army from Kashmir and Siachen;

2. We can thus stop the environmental degradation of the glaciers;

3. We can get an agreement on Kishanganga and Wullar barrage;

4. Kashmir can be freed from the rivalries of two warring mothers, Pakistan and India.

I hope good sense prevails.
SANJITH MENON
Bangalore, India

[SSridhar]

I think this just shows how impotent the Indian leadership is and how TSP has us by the b@%%s. This is being done with the help of unkil who are as usual playing a double game . . .

From this report,

Top Pakistani and US officials are also working to arrange a meeting between the Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Prime Minister Gilani though it is not confirmed yet whether such meeting will take place.

A US official said on condition of anonymity: “I hope it takes place in a good atmosphere because we are really working hard not only to get it done but also to make it meaningful.”

[Gagan]

Hai re hai,
How touching. A meeting between MMS and Geelani? Geelani?
And they expect it to be meaningful?

I rest my case.

[csharma]

Terror attack on India: By Lashkar, India should not get into the Lashkar trap and take any action.
India Pakistan peace and meaningful talks = India provides concessions to Pakistan. Maybe resumption of composite talks is the next step.

Btw, even KS said a couple of days ago that India should take action against Pakistani terror if US ia taking India for a ride like they did after 9/11. After the Pune blast, KS was suggesting that India should give talking to Pakistan inspite of terror attacks. Maybe Holbrooke has had an effect on him.

Talking about Holbrooke, apparently his earlier statement about Indians not being targeted in Afghanistan is displayed in the US embassy website in Pakistan. His "apology" after the remarks were made is posted in the US embassy website in Delhi. Very smart diplomat, I say.

Let's see what happens. Though my hopes are not high.

[kenop]

Due to the way of working of GoI:
# The Balochistan matter will continue to be part of all interactions/allegations/media hype
# The water issue will get reopened and be added to the list
What other takleefs can the GoI help Pakistan establishment with?
Please add to the list.

[SSridhar]

What other takleefs can the GoI help Pakistan establishment with?
Please add to the list.

Pakistan has had an unremitting and unending hatred and hostility with us. It keeps on adding issues, water being the latest to the list. It is already talking also of 'capabilities of Indian Armed Forces' which means that India must somehow possess only those capabilities that Pakistan perceives as non-threatening. It wants India to be brought down to its levels because of the competitive and aggressive hostility emanating from there. That's why India cannot reasonably address any of Pakistan's concerns. For one, it would be impossible to resolve any issue reasonably and even if it happens by some magic, a new issue will crop up. Deliverance for India from Pakistan lies somewhere else.

[arun]

For a country that proclaims itself as being created as a homeland for the Muslims of the Indian sub-continent the Islamic Republic of Pakistan certainly has a disproportionate amount of intra-Muslim bloodletting ostensibly on account of sectarian and sub-sectarian differences in the religious practice of Islam which one group or the other deems deviant.

So what manner of ostensibly Islam inspired Muslim on Muslim violence do we have here?

Sectarian Shia Muslim on Sunni Muslim violence or what I suspect is the more likely case, Sub Sectraian Sunni Muslim on Sunni Muslim violence with the Deobandi attacking the Brelvi / Barelvi?

Son of Ahl-e-Sunnat chief shot dead in Karachi

Thursday, 11 Mar, 2010

KARACHI: In yet another incident of target killing, also sectarian in nature, the son of the Ahl-e-Sunnat Chief, Maulana Ghafoor has been shot dead in Nazimabad, Karachi on Thursday, police officials said.

Maulana Ghafoor himself is also said to be in critical condition.

Maulana Ghafoor was on his way to the court in the morning when two pillion riders approached his car and opened indiscriminate fire on him, reports DawnNews. ……………….

Dawn

Here it would be moot to point out that of late the Sunni Muslim Brelvi / Barelvi have come under stress.

At the end of February 2010 a religious procession of the Sunni Muslim Brelvi / Barelvi was fired upon by a rival Sunni Muslim sub-sect resulting in deaths (See Page 5 of this thread).

And then in early January 2010 a Sunni Muslim Brelvi / Barelvi cleric was killed by motorcycle borne killers at the instigation of a Sunni Muslim Deobandi cleric again in Karachi:

Pesh imam held for rival sect cleric’s murder

[Joseph]

That is why i say it is high time to help in turning Taliban and seething islamic masses of Pak male youth against RAPE class by calling for islamic ideals of land for people (especially Ak equipped people), the resulting revolution will help National Bird of Pakistan aka Predator in curbing Polpulation growth at a faster rate. Taliban in control of fragmented pakistan is better for India as pak pieces will stop getting international help and continue fighting each other compared to PaK ARMY which is dedicated 'soley' to trouble India

Absolutely! Abs-olootely!

You know, if Pakistan is officially broken up into 2-3 fragments - Pakjab will have no trouble in controlling the weaker fragments by sheer mililtary force and they will concentrate on India. Since they are fighting a different nation they will do what they like even as they prostitute themselves to the two fatwallet customers looking for an Indian Ocean port- USA and China. But when Pakistan remains intact - the Paki army has to keep its own people in control and that is good for us.

Won't the PA have to devote a fairly good sized force to keep Karachi open since the Pakjab will be quite landlocked once the fragmentation starts and the dislike for the Pakjabs increases among the weaker provinces - groups?

In a fragmented situation, how much control would the PA have over Gwadar when the Baloch are already quite restless?

Would the PA ever become as violent in subduing the weaker provinces as it attempted to do in East Pakistan (1971), that the world would be shocked again?

[jash_p]

Congrats Pakilurks !!!

You just earned a wooden spoon in WC Hockey.

[Gagan]

jash_p,
Don't be impolite to the paklurks, always post a link.
Wooden spoon for Pakistan in Hockey World Cup

For the first time four times champions Pakistan finished last at a Hockey World Cup after they were beaten 2-3 by Canada in the 11th-12th place play-off at the Major Dhyan Chand National Stadium here Thursday.

...

Pakistan - peechey se first.

[rgsrini]

Don't be impolite to the paklurks, always post a link

Please educate me. What is the next step? Is it to slap a life ban on the captains and a major fine on the rest of the team... or is it force everyone to grow a beard and become members of Tableeghi Jamaat? I am also disappointed that no one tried to chew the hockey ball during the match. What is happening to Pakistanis these days?

[jash_p]

I just heard (may be rummor, infect they say to get assylum they purpossley lost to India.) that entire Paki team including coach and additional personel asked for assylum in US Ambessy.

[A_Gupta]

Assume 1.8 million landowners own 1.8 million farms. About 1% of the people own 75% of the land

1% of the people own 75% of the agricultural land.
Presumably the middle class will be detectable in the urban property ownership?

PS: I have updated the post with Paki data with comparable Indian data. And note that that landownership pattern in India (top 19.5% of the land holdings account for 63.9% of the land) is bad enough to provoke a Naxalite movement.

[Amber G.]

^^^

Don't be impolite to the paklurks, always post a link

Please educate me. What is the next step?

It starts with Sacking the selectors [
(and the entire team management ... according to link)

[shiv]

Won't the PA have to devote a fairly good sized force to keep Karachi open since the Pakjab will be quite landlocked once the fragmentation starts and the dislike for the Pakjabs increases among the weaker provinces - groups?

In a fragmented situation, how much control would the PA have over Gwadar when the Baloch are already quite restless?

Would the PA ever become as violent in subduing the weaker provinces as it attempted to do in East Pakistan (1971), that the world would be shocked again?

Interesting and valid questions - somewhat like the questions I have been asking myself.
One way to look at Pakistan is as a "club of landowning feudals". Unity and cooperation between the landowning feudals of Pakistan serves their interests well and they have ensured control over the officer cadre of the army.

That means that there is cross-province unity between the feudal classes. For example the Mazari tribe is a huge landowning and prominent Baloch tribe. But a person like Shireen Mazari is a dyed in the wool Paki RAPE. However, control of the army gives Pakjab a disproportionate representation in the leadership, but that does not mean that control of other provinces does not exist via the feudal allies they have in Sindh and elsewhere.

I am talking of a class struggle here and the feudals and their subjects are spread all over Pakistan. What we see in the media and on TV are the representatives of the feudal landowners, again with the army being a prime landowner. The rest of Pakistan we never see. When Irfan Husain's firangi friend allegedly says there is "in your face" poverty in India, it means that that poverty cannot be hidden away in India. Apart from poverty, even the less wealthy are visible all over India and it is their right to be visible and represented. Such rights are absent in Pakistan.

Under the circumstances of a "united club of feudals" with proliferating seething masses, "breaking up" of Pakistan cannot occur easily and if it occurs at all it will be in the areas where the RAPE/Pak army exert less control - ie NWFP, FATA and possibly areas of Balochistan. So any "break" will leave a core Pakistan that includes Pakjab and Sindh too. If areas of NWFP or Balochistan "break away" the Pakistani army can be absolutely brutal in those areas. A Bangladesh like genocide cannot be ruled out. Why are they not doing that now? I believe that is because they still have interests in the area and landowning RAPE members from that area who are able to control their populations to an extent. Once the landowner/feudal control goes - the territory is "lost" to Pakistan and they can be absolutely brutal. And as we know they have been brutal - using artillery and air force. If those provinces try to break away the Paki army will massacre the secessionists.

Supporting the breakaway factions means fighting a war with the Pakistani army. The US is not interested in this. the US typically does not care for any civilian population other than US citizens. They never cared for Japan, they did not care in Vietnam or Iraq and they do not care in Pakistan. as long as the Paki army does their job they will not demand kindness or human rights.

Because of the terrain, the Pakistan army can consolidate "core Pakistan" and fight anyone forever in the badlands. So trying to break up Pakistan actively is fraught with needless uncertainty. Pakistanis are not a happy lot. if they are going to break away - let them do it in their own way and in their own time. Let the Paki army be busy fighting an internal war, protecting the landowning feudal's rights. This fight has already started and it has spread to "core Pakistan" (Pakjab). That is why the Pakis are desperate for THE external enemy, India to declare war so that they can unite and pull along for another 10-20 years using the "India is the real threat" excuse.

However - not hitting Pakistan is not easy for India. Political pressure to hit Pakistan builds up after every attack. the obverse of this is unkil who is using the Prostitute army to fight the rebels. Unkil does not give a damn about "human development" in Pakistan and unkil imagines that all will be well if a few taliban are that one eyed jack are defeated. India's real problem is to come out a winner and see both unkil and Pakistan lose if necessary.

Still I think India would not lose too much by hitting Pakistan despite punishment promised by the US. India's plans would be set back by decade or so, but provided the Paki army is badly mauled, this might not matter too much. Maybe we will get to a stage when we can hit the Paki army at will - I don't know. It may be an Indian political decision to absorb occasional blows from Pakistan in favor of racing ahead and staying ahead. It's a tough call for India. Maybe a good time to attack Pakistan will present itself when secessionism goes out of hand in some part of Pakistan. It is possible that the Paki army needs to say "India is bad" to crush all secessionists. And those secessionists will survive as long as India does not attack. Ever since 1971 - any secessionism in Pakistan has been treated as an Indian sponsored affair. Just a guess.

[Amber G.]

^^^ Not only that lot of grilling! (one can't even make such stuff)'
ISLAMABAD: The National Assembly’s Standing Committee on Sport (NASCS) will grill the Pakistan Hockey Federation (PHF) officials and members of the national team

[Gagan]

They will grill them IF the team reaches back home. jash_p mentiones that the whole team has asked for an ass-y-lum from massaland embassy.

[shiv]

Assume 1.8 million landowners own 1.8 million farms. About 1% of the people own 75% of the land

1% of the people own 75% of the agricultural land.
Presumably the middle class will be detectable in the urban property ownership?

It has to be - as far as I can tell. With 35% absolutely poor and about 70% poor, Pakistan also has 1% very wealthy. So technically one could say that the "middle class" extend to the 29% in between. But when you look at car and two wheeler ownership and TV ownership figures in Pakistan - the figures for middle class are less than impressive. 16 million TV sets? 165 million population?

[svinayak]

One way to look at Pakistan is as a "club of landowning feudals". Unity and cooperation between the landowning feudals of Pakistan serves their interests well and they have ensured control over the officer cadre of the army.
That means that there is cross-province unity between the feudal classes.
Under the circumstances of a "united club of feudals" with proliferating seething masses, "breaking up" of Pakistan cannot occur easily and if it occurs at all it will be in the areas where the RAPE/Pak army exert less control - ie NWFP, FATA and possibly areas of Balochistan.

This is known as the "homogenity" in the ruling Paki elite. This unity can be broken - "Pakistan na Kappay"
This fault line has to be nurtured for decades. Then a blow to the PA military establishment will create the right conditions.
The other method is the civil war among the various factions - religious and regions. But it has to be done and India has no choice.

[A_Gupta]

Shiv, I have updated two posts above with data from India.

[rgsrini]

National hockey team resign

What a display of Paki ingenuity!!! "Who said I was fired? That is absolutely ridiculous. I was the one who quit!". I guess they have learnt well from their military leadership. "Who said we are forced to fight Talibans? That is absolutely ridiculous. We are the one who want them out in the first place."

[A_Gupta]

Whereas in Karachi one can find a majority of common men and women unafraid to air their distaste for the extremists, and walls can be seen adorned with slogans such as ‘Taliban raj namanzoor’ (Taliban regime not acceptable), ‘Taliban sey hoshiar’ (beware of the Taliban), and, my favourite, a slogan found scribbled in a thick coat of black on a wall in a rundown lower-middle-class area of the city, ‘Mulla Omar dajjal’ (Mulla Omar the devil), one just cannot expect such voices and scenes in the Punjab, at least not in Lahore.

Why not? How can a province and a city (Lahore), devastated over and again and plunged into the depths of chaos and fear perpetrated by monsters such as the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and the province’s many clandestine sectarian organisations, simply refuse to face its most ubiquitous tormenters and demons? Why the fearful silence by its people, and why the spin, the vagueness, and ultimate derailing of the issue by the electronic media?

Punjab is suffering. And it is not only from extremist terrorism. It is as if every time its leadership and people attempt to awkwardly repress the obvious lashings of fear and confusion that cut viciously across the province whenever there is a terrorist attack, they become more vocal in their condemnation of the present government at the centre, incredibly investing more emotional and intellectual energy on abstract issues such as corruption, judiciary, and ‘good governance’ through passionate displays of TV studio and drawing-room nobility, rather than directly tackling their greatest enemy.

Funny thing is, they would readily accuse the president of corruption and the US and India for having nefarious designs on Pakistan without offering an iota of evidence, but would get into a long navel-gazing exercise asking for proof of militant involvement in a terrorist attack.

Again, why? Why in the Punjab? Are the Sindhis and Karachiites more enlightened, liberal, moderate or whatever?

Nadeem Paracha in Yawn.

[CRamS]

What other takleefs can the GoI help Pakistan establishment with?
Please add to the list.

Pakistan has had an unremitting and unending hatred and hostility with us. It keeps on adding issues, water being the latest to the list. It is already talking also of 'capabilities of Indian Armed Forces' which means that India must somehow possess only those capabilities that Pakistan perceives as non-threatening. It wants India to be brought down to its levels because of the competitive and aggressive hostility emanating from there. That's why India cannot reasonably address any of Pakistan's concerns. For one, it would be impossible to resolve any issue reasonably and even if it happens by some magic, a new issue will crop up. Deliverance for India from Pakistan lies somewhere else.

Indeed, someone posted the views of some ex Paki general Talat Masood. Here is an excerpt:

For Pakistan to expect that India would restrain its regional or global aspirations to reduce Pakistan's insecurities would be unrealistic.

So there you go, anything India does to advance becomes a "core issue". The late J.N.Dixit who used to blow hot and cold, once said that a TSP diplomat honestly told him the India is too "big" for their comfort.

[Amber G.]

National hockey team resign

What a display of Paki ingenuity!!! ...

Don't be so harsh! The team is asking asylum and is giving the following source as a supporting document - (see the story in /www.asylum.in - not making the url up - see the link given below) .. they say "It's not safe to return in that strife ridden country" where for Hockey players:
Hugging 'sister' attracts fines in Pakistan

Recently, some Pakistan hockey team members had to shell out Rs 100,000 and Rs 50,000 as fines for hugging a woman. Their misfortune that it got captured and shown on TV. Tsk.

Chairman of the National Assembly's standing committee on sports (the guys who give out punishments, we think), said, "Islamic culture does not allow us to hug a lady [Hugging a non-lady is halal we presume] and have alcohol." Not sure how the two are connected? The players were also spotted consuming beer (apparently!). Tsk. Tsk.

In most places around the world, the two activities would be seen as logical in a timeline. Have a beer, hug a friend, oops, sister and move on. But in Pakistan, it is un-Islamic. And fine-worthy. Go figure.

Just don't be caught hugging in Pakistan!

[Prem]

:
Hugging 'sister' attracts fines in Pakistan

Recently, some Pakistan hockey team members had to shell out Rs 100,000 and Rs 50,000 as fines for hugging a woman. Their misfortune that it got captured and shown on TV. Tsk.
Just don't be caught hugging in Pakistan!

We should love this non hugging but its very dangerous as the rat hole is next door to us.. In Theth Punjabi, doing Hug means doing number 2, a human necessity "butt" Paki are different.

[rgsrini]

In Theth Punjabi, doing Hug means doing number 2, a human necessity buit Paki are different.

The Pakjabis have "butt" in their names. I guess they don't need it in their bodies.

[Mahendra]

Maulana Abdul Ghafoor, the Amir of Jamaat-e-Ahl e sunnat has been bumped off in Krachi.

After or before sunnat?

[Prem]

Maulana Abdul Ghafoor, the Amir of Jamaat-e-Ahl e sunnat has been bumped off in Krachi.

After or before sunnat?

Is it Ahle Sunnat or Pehle Sunnat ? Then may be
Deedar e Jannat Done During the Deed . Paki dont live in before and after timeline but in constant static state of "fix".

[ramana]

Maulana Abdul Ghafoor, the Amir of Jamaat-e-Ahl e sunnat has been bumped off in Karachi.

Is this different than Ahl-e-Hadith or the same? If so it means Deobandis are consolidating.

A couple of years ago the entire leadership of A-e-H was blown up at a meeting in Karachi.

[Rangudu]

Please watch live broadcast of US House hearing on LeT in TSP

[ramana]

Paki press claim they have a path forward in Af-Pak after recent visits by many Afghan leaders.

[Gagan]

Rungudu,
Missed it. Could you post the excerpts or a link?

[CRamS]

Thus spake Professor Marvin Weinbaum on LeT. Although the unsconscious colonialism is hard to miss, namely, its OK if LeT were focused on India alone, but neverthless the nexus between TSP state and LeT is clearly articulated. Although we all know that LeT is kep element of TSPA, just pointing to the halls of power in Washington on the nexus between LeT and TSPA is a good start. It busts the "non state actors" nonsense.

[Bhima]

Terrorists of today fathered by Pak were yesteryear 'heroes' prior to 9/11 : Zardari

[Gagan]

Zardari shouldn't be saying things like these. BB was doing the same things before she met a gruesome end.

Zardari should know that his situation in pakistan is most precarious. It seems at a certain level he knows that the inevitable is going to happen to him.

[Rupesh]

The bomber intended to target a convoy of paramilitary Frontier Corps about 10 kilometers outside central Peshawar, police said.

“The suicide bomber wanted to hit an FC convoy. It was a small bazaar outside Peshawar. He was wearing a suicide jacket, he fell down and it exploded prematurely. He could not reach the target,” said Maula.

Three killed, nine injured in Peshawar suicide blast

Sad news... Bombers need to be more careful in future.. standards are very low like all things paki