Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gerard »

B Raman...
Anti-Army Anger Remains Strong In Pakistan
What would be the impact of these attacks and the resulting fatalities on the morale of the Punjabi soldiers? It is likely that many of the civilians killed were the relatives of soldiers. The Army could come to the conclusion that the only way it could maintain the morale of its Punjabi soldiers is by intensifying its proxy war against India while pretending to co-operate with the US against Al Qaeda and the Taliban. One of the tempting options for the Army will be to wean the HUJI and the JEM away from the TTP by persuading them to join with the LET against India. If it succeeds, it could reduce the pressure on the Army.

The increase in anti-Pakistan Army terrorism in Punjab has to be closely monitored by India in order to assess its impact on Pakistan's proxy war against India.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

The political cartoonist is sometimes able to cut to the heart of the matter in a very simple way.

E.g., this Sabir Nazar cartoon that appeared in the Daily Times.

The cartoon is asking the question - whose is the hand controlling all the talking heads?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by svinayak »

Guddu wrote: ZH provides a window into the pseudo-intellectual musings of the martial jihadi race. For those who understand urdu, its great entertainment. By not listening to him, he wont go away and bury is head in poo. Infact, he is useful in that, he lets us know what is causing the jihadi subset of pakis to burn with anger, jealousy and demented rage.
I agree. The correct analysis of those selected video gives us clues and also gives us ways to take care of this probelm. This is a problem which has to be take care of in next 50 years. Future gen should not say that the previous gen was afraid to even see these videos.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

Guddu wrote:. ZH provides a window into the pseudo-intellectual musings of the martial jihadi race. For those who understand urdu, its great entertainment. By not listening to him, he wont go away and bury is head in poo. Infact, he is useful in that, he lets us know what is causing the jihadi subset of pakis to burn with anger, jealousy and demented rage.

If anyone gets better understanding of Pakis by listening to Zaid Hamid, more power to him. But he brings nothing to the table that cannot be gleaned from a thousand different sources and says nothing that reveals anything new and unknown about the Paki psyche unless a listener to Zaid Hamid is discovering it for the first time via Hamid's rants and believes this is the first and only source of news of Pakiness. After listening to 500 speeches by Zaid Hamid - if any new insight can be gained into Pakistan or Pakis I would be glad to hear it.

None of his BRF fans has managed to bring anything new to the table about Pakis or Paki views of India or anything else by being avid followers of his speeches. As far as I am concerned its ho hum.. so what's new? Zaid Hamid? Fine? Zaid Hamid again? Fine. Zaid Hamid yet again - hey lay off already.

Agreed all the people who love his speeches are enjoying themselves very much. May they all be blessed with more such entertainment but hey what the fEDITk is he saying that will teach anyone anything new or give a different perspective. You hear one speech, you have heard them all. if you still want to hear 500 of them - you are welcome - but I will not be doing that and would appreciate being told about the great value and cryptic clues he seems to be adding, unbeknownst to those who are bored to death by him.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Hari Seldon »

Zaid Hamid is a kook. His speeches makes the circuits now and then and appear in the rapidly evolving TSP thread once in maybe 5 pages on the average. So why the determined push to make this dhaga off limits to the Zaid Hamid variety of pakiness deconstruction?

Just wondering is all.

After all, if the uberites don't like ZaidH refs, they can always ignore it. No?

But to try regulating it on this dhaga when its not that much of a great or grave disruption (IMVHO here) is thread puritanism gone a tad zealous, perhaps.

Again, perhaps.

And JMTs, just my 2 paise and other std disclaimers.

And Jai ho.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Samay »

Acharya wrote: I agree. The correct analysis of those selected video gives us clues and also gives us ways to take care of this probelm. This is a problem which has to be take care of in next 50 years. Future gen should not say that the previous gen was afraid to even see these videos.
I think 50 yrs is a long long time to solve any problem ,if all decision makers decide to decide on it ,.
Not even Einstein relatively took that many years to create new solutions (problems in themselves) for young students of physics :((

why cant the pakistani problem be solved in couple decades ? well this is a wrong question ........

correct question is why our great politicians didnt solved it in 1965,71,84,89,99, 2001,2005,2008 .... till date

Or

Why they dont want to solve :?:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

sum wrote:
Blast kills Pakistani national in Afghanistan - police
KANDAHAR: A roadside bomb killed a Pakistani construction worker and wounded six of his compatriots on Sunday in Afghanistan's southern city of Kandahar, police said.
...
link
Fact that this happened very close to the Paki consulate and is the second direct attack on Pakis( who were never targeted all these days) since the murder of 7 Indians means the game is on.
[/quote]
Sorry but i cant conclude anything else. Finally, are we seeing covert action wheels( which BR has been pleading for since time immortal) being set in motion?
I don't think so. I think that the Pakistanis were employees of a Japanese firm, SAITA, (that has a subsidiary in Pakistan), and confusion similar to that in 2009 prevails in the reporting.

I doubt India would engage in covert action that hurts a Japanese firm, even to strike at Pakistan.

SAITA Pakistan URL
http://www.saitapk.com/aboutus_profile.html

Moreover, SAITA seems to have an Afghanistan subsidiary, too.

One of the starting clues is this Dawn item:
Another explosion took place early Sunday close to the Kandahar office of a Japanese construction company, injuring five employees — four of them Pakistanis and one an Afghan.
The motive for the attack then becomes that this firm has been making progress on building a road that the Taliban have been attacking and trying to block.

From the first link [2009] above:
The Times report states that Saita is "engaged in reconstruction efforts," a description that obscures their actual role in the Afghan war, which is akin to what Anthony James Joes calls "counterinsurgent force multipliers," which leaves open the question of whether or not they were targeted by the attackers. As the AP's Noor Khan reported, Saita "had recently taken over a contract to build a road through an insurgent-held area."
......
For several years, Saita has designed and constructed USAID's 'Southern Strategy Road,' (SSR) "to ensure a long-lasting transportation corridor between Kandahar City and the district center of Arghastan."

Illustrating Joes' point, The SSR "was declared by the U.S. Secretary of State, the U.S. Ambassador, and the Commander of NATO forces as strategic to the success of the NATO mission in Afghanistan." The "anticipated impact" of the road includes "benefit[s to] the continued effort to control AGE forces in the southern areas of Afghanistan along the Pakistan border."
Last edited by A_Gupta on 14 Mar 2010 22:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by SBajwa »

by Guddu
ZH provides a window into the pseudo-intellectual musings of the martial jihadi race. For those who understand urdu, its great entertainment. By not listening to him, he wont go away and bury is head in poo. Infact, he is useful in that, he lets us know what is causing the jihadi subset of pakis to burn with anger, jealousy and demented rage.
What ZH represents is what is called a mental masturbation by fantasizing about past and hoping to get off in future. ZH is what Hitler was during his speeches about Roman pasts and Aryan blue eyed Race. If left untouched the middle class of pakistan will make him a hitler who will not shy from hitting India (with a nuke) without any inhibtions.

ZH, Zakir Naik, etc., are suffering from mental disease and need immediate psychiatric help.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Pranav »

A_Gupta wrote:
brihaspati wrote:....Allowing ZH to be aired more need not be a good tactic....
I'm with Brihaspati on this.
Sweeping Jihadist ideology under the carpet is not a good idea - it should be exposed and demolished.

Besides, a proper understanding of the Jihadist thinking is required to counter the ideological vacuum fostered by Indian elites.

The problem is that we tie our hands ... demolishing the ideology will require squarely confronting core religious doctrines ... which we are unwilling to do.
Last edited by Pranav on 14 Mar 2010 22:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

The March 4th attack: Jang:
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_de ... p?Id=27616
KANDAHAR: Five Pakistani construction workers have been shot dead in an ambush here in southern Afghanistan, officials said on Thursday.
....
The Pakistanis worked for the Saita Construction Company, a Japanese joint-venture with a contract to repair the road from Kandahar to Panjwayi district.
India would not try to delay a road to Kandahar just to hit Pakistanis. Indians are not the "tactically brilliant" and strategically stupid Pakis. It doesn't matter to India really who builds strategic roads in Afghanistan, what matters is NATO is able to use them to clear Kandahar of Taliban.

Reuters story illustrating the confusion - they call the company whose employees were hit March 14 as Pakistani, CITA; but also say it is the same company whose employees were hit last week:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62A2FP20100314
Last week, five Pakistani employees of the same Pakistani construction firm, CITA, were gunned down by unknown people in another part of Kandahar.
Remains the question:
Why aren't the Taliban claiming credit for these two killings?
a. Why risk scoring negative points in the Pakistani press?
b. Very convenient for both Taliban and Paki Army to make out that India is fighting a covert war in Afghanistan [and at the cost of endangering the US/NATO mission].
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

Pranav wrote: The problem is that we tie our hands ... demolishing the ideology will require squarely confronting core religious doctrines ... which we are unwilling to do.
At the risk of going off-topic -- an ideology can be demolished only by its utter and convincing failure.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by satya »

Why we need to demolish/destroy/counter jihadi strategy do what west & arab rulers been doing .All they did was divert it , we too have to find a way to divert this jihadi setup away from us to some bigger enemy & precisely tht's what we are doing . Food for thought.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

satya wrote:Why we need to demolish/destroy/counter jihadi strategy do what west & arab rulers been doing .All they did was divert it , we too have to find a way to divert this jihadi setup away from us to some bigger enemy & precisely tht's what we are doing . Food for thought.
My last post on the topic. You need to read what Brihaspati wrote. To put it delicately, there are elements in India that are susceptible to Jihadi Ideology. Diverting the jihadis merely pushes out the risk into the future. Secondly, just as 1971/Bangladesh provided the opportunity to drown the Two-Nation Theory in the Bay of Bengal, today's Pakistan may offer the opportunity to drown the Jihadi Ideology in the Arabian Sea - i.e., its utter bankruptcy and failure may be illustrated in practice.

PS: Thirdly, if an ideology survives a generation, then it can gain the additional strength of being a tradition, even a venerated tradition.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by brihaspati »

I guess I should make my reservations clear. There is no problem if ZH is dissolved in Carbolic acid slowly on this forum. Which means his fallacies and stupidity is exposed. More importantly by demolishing his arguments, we actually weaken the memes he uses and which are also common knowledge among many Islamists. It is not just BR which can access ZH, and those Islamists who can access the web also do not need BR to drink his sweet wine.

I was inclined to be more cautious in casually "airing" ZH's propaganda in general in the public - and assuming naively that everyone out there will immediately see the fallacies or the agenda behind his rants. That sort of publicity is already happening in many concentrations of Urdu speaking subgroups, and we cannot simply add to that. If re-transmitting, let us always do it in an "interwoven" narrative - one which decosntructs his claims at every step within the rant itself.

A logical training or "sicentific training" need not guarantee automatic logical analysis and guaranteed background knowledge to do so. If it was so, so many of our own highly trained "intellectuals" or that from the Pakis side would not be committing such ideological and analytical blunders. If the highly trained professionals can wallow in such irrationality, why expect super-rationality from the common abdul. It is a question of "belief" that gives various degrees of "satisfaction" and self-esteem - logicality will not matter in such a case.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

Incidentally, the same argument that India is not involved in the killing of Pakistani road construction workers in Afghanistan (unless Indians are strategically stupid) applies also to any Indian involvement in Balochistan via Afghanistan.

The issue in this latter case is not what Pakistan says, thinks or knows; but for how long India could conceal such activity from the US. Any such activity would be seen as undermining the NATO/US mission in Afghanistan. Arguably it would also actually be undermining the effort in Afghanistan. This is not a matter of public relations, or plausible deniability; such a covert war would impact the military and state policy makers in the US negatively over Indian involvement, even if they never made their concerns public.

I'd go so far as to say that if India had been meddling in Balochistan, then after getting involved in Afghanistan post-2002-US/NATO intervention, India would have cut down such activities to a minimum, for this very reason.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Prem »

A_Gupta wrote:
satya wrote:Why we need to demolish/destroy/counter jihadi strategy do what west & arab rulers been doing .All they did was divert it , we too have to find a way to divert this jihadi setup away from us to some bigger enemy & precisely tht's what we are doing . Food for thought.
My last post on the topic. You need to read what Brihaspati wrote. To put it delicately, there are elements in India that are susceptible to Jihadi Ideology. Diverting the jihadis merely pushes out the risk into the future. Secondly, just as 1971/Bangladesh provided the opportunity to drown the Two-Nation Theory in the Bay of Bengal, today's Pakistan may offer the opportunity to drown the Jihadi Ideology in the Arabian Sea - i.e., its utter bankruptcy and failure may be illustrated in practice.

PS: Thirdly, if an ideology survives a generation, then it can gain the additional strength of being a tradition, even a venerated tradition.
This is India's manifest destiny. The destruction of Jihadi machinery ,material and mentors. Both ideologically and physically. This will be akinto US intereference in 2nd World War to defeat Hitler.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by CRamS »

Did any of you guys watch Fareed boy doing his loyal duty on CNN this morning? He was having a friendly coffee chat with Honcho Holbrooke repeating the same crap: TSP valuable ally in war on terror, TSP has lost so many troops, TSP took on terrorists in Swat, bla bla. Only "tough" question the boy was able to muster was whether TSP is sincere in taking on Afghan Taliban; to which the Honcho was almost surprised that there would be any doubt after the arrest of mullah whatever baraber by TSPA.

Most amusing assetion by the Honcho was his empathy with TSP on moving 1000 troops away from "its giant neighbor". What was not even a blip on the radar screen was LeT. I thought only through computer models, one can warp reality; but here we are, TSP attacks as the best form of defense, and yet it and its 3.5 friend portray it (TSP) as a victim of India's "hostility".

We on BR should jut step out of our jongo frame of reference and look outside the box. India is well and truly caged in a "South Asia" bounding box; TSP crimes against India are viewed under the larger gamut of what ails "South Asia" (see for example: "slave brides").

It also struck me that the boy who earlier made some noises about TSPA and LeT attacks against India in earlier interviews is now silent, not straying away from the script one bit. Looks like his his earlier focus on TSP's India stratgey landed him in some trouble and he got some phone calls from Pentagon, CIA etc asking him to be a good boy like he has always been .
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by sanjaykumar »

Indian Muslims are not children that they need censorship. Those who are going jihadi don't need Zaid's exhortations.

Yes the haranguing and fantasies may be puerile to Indians, but Pakistanis certainly don't seem to find them so. To dismiss Zaid because one needs a translator, ergo he can't be important, does not make any sense at all.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Rudradev »

Gagan wrote:If we don't post or link Jahil Hamid here on BRF, I can assure you there is NO ONE in India who will ever come across him or watch his videos.
It is a double edged sword.
BRF TSP / BENIS threads provide him with an audience far beyond what is possible either from his TV broadcast or youtube video word of mouth spread by pakis.
Curious... What is your basis for this assertion?

SIMI, Indian Mujahedin etc have massive outreach programs targeted at Indian Muslims on the Internet. These are well organized and effective campaigns that have made ZH rubbish like "Hindutvavadis killed Hemant Karkare on 26/11"... a subscribed opinion even among mainstream Indian Muslims.

A LOT more Indians of all stripes go to Youtube than to BRF. Zaid Hamid's propaganda is not at all difficult to come across there. I would think a lot more Indians come across it via mass emailed links and chatrooms/discussion boards than the number who become aware of it only through visiting BRF.

BRF may be the main point of ZH exposure for those Indians who would recognize it as an example of the mass anti-India indoctrination carried out by the State of Pakistan but not for Indians in general.

Added later: agree with Sanjaykumar's post above. IMs will come across ZH whether or not he is censored on BRF, and those who agree with him might well have become jihadized even without exposure to him. There is a LOT of low level Internet propaganda of the ZH type out there... ZH is doing us a favour by raising the profile of such rhetoric to a level where it's existence, and connection to the mainstream Paki establishment, are plainly visible.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Prem »

If some Indians get influenced by prophet ZH then it exoses their loyalty ,hence make them legitimate terrorist target to be dealt with law enforcment folks. The onus of being good loyal citizens cant fall on all the rest sans the culprits.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gagan »

Rudradev wrote:These are well organized and effective campaigns that have made ZH rubbish like "Hindutvavadis killed Hemant Karkare on 26/11"... a subscribed opinion even among mainstream Indian Muslims.
That is not a ZH assertion. The die was cast when Colonel Srikant Purohit and a certain sadhvi were blamed for the Samjhauta blasts.

I am aware of the propaganda that goes on in India amongst the IM at the behest of SIMI / ISI etc. It is more along the lines of Ummah is one, one allah, no nations only one muslim nation etc.

ZH is a firefly, who will burn bright, and the Pakistani army propaganda machine will make merry while he burns bright. His target audience is interal pakistani youth. Gazwa-e-hind is purely targetted at the youth in pakistan, IM might not necessarily find resonance with that line of thought. His other rants on RAW conspiracy, Bangladesh creation, the next war in Panipat, and Pakistan radio from New Delhi are bouncers that IM will be hard pressed to understand or digest.

What mystifies me is this sudden move on BRF to black out zaid hamid. Why? If BRF does not expose this turd, or more importantly his line of thought, who is going to do that? Or do the powers that be believe that a more dangerous line of thought is going to come out of ZH in the future?

The TSP thread is dedicated to understanding the pakistani thought process, and ZH forms one part of it. There is little doubt that he serves as the unofficial mouth piece of the ISI-Jihadi nexus. The great thing is that this guy is available on video. The TSP thread is supposed to be a library of sorts where all things related to TSP can be collated and easily refered to and discussed. What's wrong with having some of his videos posted here.

There is a difference between a fanboy posting his video series on the deaf and dumb and a video link posted here.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gagan »

The videos that IMs watch for indoctrination peaked during the heydays of the OBL, 9/11 events. When OBL speeches were being found in IM video shops. That trend died down very rapidly when the government and IM society acted in concert to crack down on it.

As far as I understand, this Zakir Naik chap, who talks more on the lines of a Pan Islamic identity along with several Islamic satellite channels on the lines of the Evangelical telecasts are favoured amongst the IM. There is one MTV broadcast from the UK which some Ahmediya acquaintances of mine, used to view quite often.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by vera_k »

Prem wrote:If some Indians get influenced by prophet ZH then it exoses their loyalty ,hence make them legitimate terrorist target to be dealt with law enforcment folks. The onus of being good loyal citizens cant fall on all the rest sans the culprits.
Zaid Hamid should be on prime time TV in India 24x7. That will get rid of his anti-India ranting as he can then aim for bigger and better things.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gagan »

Does anyone remember the look of glee on Shrileen's face when NDTV gave her a platform on prime time during Musharraf's Agra visit.
All the Pakistani TV idiots were on the air on indian TV channels, and one could plainly see that this was the greatest honour bestowed on these people. India provided a respectful legitimate platform to mushy and Indian TV channels did the same to their pakistani counterparts.

What a spectacle that was, Just as mushy raved and ranted, so did the likes of shrileen. A lot of people got to see some of the real face of pakistan then.

I used to get angry when NDTV gets respectable and honorable Indian experts on the same platform as a lying through the teeth pakistani diplomat. I would think, this is a great disservice to the nation that these channels do. Now I wonder if that was correct, after all, each time that the pakistani displays his pakiness on TV and blames India, I hope atleast some WKK in some corner of India with a tinge of nationalism left in him/her will get to see the real pakistan.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by brihaspati »

As I said, ZH can be dissolved in Carbolic acid here. But if people have really watched his videos or read transliterations of his speeches - they are surely aware that most of his stuff comes out of interpretations and claims based on Islamic texts and Islamic history. How many here would come forward to trash those claims? Will that not bring in discussion of "religion" and discussing solid connections between the religion and what ZH is actually saying? How palatable and acceptable will that be? If we cannot deconstruct him [rest assured which will involve theology], will there be a great benefit in trying to "understand" Paki mentality through him?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Rudradev »

Gagan wrote:
Rudradev wrote:These are well organized and effective campaigns that have made ZH rubbish like "Hindutvavadis killed Hemant Karkare on 26/11"... a subscribed opinion even among mainstream Indian Muslims.
That is not a ZH assertion. The die was cast when Colonel Srikant Purohit and a certain sadhvi were blamed for the Samjhauta blasts.
The ATS accused the Colonel and the Sadhvi of perpetrating the Samjhauta blasts, and this story was certainly carried widely by the Indian media.

However I am not aware of any Indian media... in fact, of anyone except Zaid Hamid and the Shrilleen Mazari types... taking that canard forward to declare that Hindutvavadis committed the 26/11 attacks as a cover for the murder of Malegaon investigator Hemant Karkare. That particular lie is 100% Paki in origin and conveyed entirely through the agency of people like Zaid Hamid.

And yet, it has found resonance among sections of the IMs. It was expressed to me as a personal belief by an educated, middle class IM gentleman who I don't think of as a SIMI type at all. Yet it isn't from the Indian media that IMs are picking up this version of 26/11...so it must be from ZH or other Paki sources.
I am aware of the propaganda that goes on in India amongst the IM at the behest of SIMI / ISI etc. It is more along the lines of Ummah is one, one allah, no nations only one muslim nation etc.
There is a lot more to ISI/SIMI propaganda directed at IMs, than general abstractions about pan-Ummah nationalism. There is a well organized, systematic process of indoctrination beginning with tapping into immediate and local grievances (such as a particular communal riot)...carrying on to vetting of candidates by spotters, increasing the degree of proximity with the inner circle and finally exhortations to actual participation in Jihad for those candidates identified as the most motivated.

As an example:

http://islamicterrorism.wordpress.com/2 ... n-muslims/
ZH is a firefly, who will burn bright, and the Pakistani army propaganda machine will make merry while he burns bright. His target audience is interal pakistani youth. Gazwa-e-hind is purely targetted at the youth in pakistan, IM might not necessarily find resonance with that line of thought. His other rants on RAW conspiracy, Bangladesh creation, the next war in Panipat, and Pakistan radio from New Delhi are bouncers that IM will be hard pressed to understand or digest.
IM are not monolithic. Most IMs may find ZH's views hard to digest but those who are susceptible to radicalization by SIMI propaganda, would have no problem accepting ZH's "Mughalistan" and "Khorasan" fantasies as preferable to an Indian state they have come to regard as anti-Islam.

Regardless I do believe that there is no point blacking out Zaid Hamid on BRF. It won't stop his message reaching those Indians who might be radicalized by it, but it will make us less aware of the day-to-day propaganda angles being pursued by the TSPA/ISI for whom ZH is a mouthpiece.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gagan »

Most of his videos that get posted here are the strategic issues version of his bakwaas. I don't think people post his islamist videos here - there's no enduring interest there. I made an effort to see some of that, was disgusted, and bored, and gave it up.

His geo-strategic bakwaas, and anti India stuff is what gets posted here mostly.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gagan »

Rudradev,
There are CDs and DVDs in circulation which are most likely ISI sponsored stuff where 'atrocities' of BJP-RSS-Shiv Sena on the gujarat-ram temple issues are shown in very inflammatory fashion.

These things then lead to a string of conspiracy stories, and keep those embers of suspicion amongst communities within India burning.

These need to be taken out both at the local level and at the national level by intel and law enforcement agencies.

There are a lot of rabble rousers, local politicos, religious heads all across the various communities in all religions (= = onlee) who prevent these embers from dying out.

As far as ZH is concerned, since he is a media savvy pakistani ISI mouthpiece, it would only be natural for him to be involved in something like this. But his videos on you tube still don't have that, even though his website is more direct in blaming hindus.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Fidel Guevara »

US think-tanks let down LeT
The ISI continues to maintain links with Lashkar-e-Toiba, the terrorist outfit responsible for 26/11, and Islamabad is reluctant to take action against its leaders and its network, several eminent US scholars and experts of South Asia have categorically told US lawmakers.

"The LeT is a deadly serious group of fanatics...connected to, the Pakistani military," said Gary L Ackerman, Chairman of the House Subcommittee on the Middle East and South Asia of the House Committee on International Relations (whew, AmirKhan sure likes long impressive titles, even more so than PRC ). And it is the same Pakistani military, to which the Obama Administration is selling advanced arms, he pointed out.

Marvin G Weinbaum, from the Middle East Institute - a Washington-based think tank, said "The ISI is believed to continue to share intelligence and provide protection to LeT".

Noting that LeT poses a threat to the US national security interests, Lisa Curtis from the Heritage Foundation said the appearance of LeT leader Hafiz Muhammed Saeed at a recent public rally casts grave doubts about Pakistan's commitment to reining in the group's activities.

Eminent Pakistani scholar Shuja Nawaz too conceded that the relationship between the ISI and LeT has stayed overtime. Nawaz is currently the director, South Asia Center, The Atlantic Council of the United Statse.

Ashley J Tellis, senior associate at the prestigious Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, told lawmakers that today LeT relies on the ISI primarily for safe haven and political protection for its leadership. "This fact ought to be understood clearly by the Obama administration. Once it is, it may push the United States to either compel Pakistan to initiate action against LeT or hold Pakistan responsible for the actions of its proxies.

If these efforts do not bear fruit, the United States will have to contemplate unilateral actions (or cooperative actions with other allies) to neutralize the most dangerous of the terrorist groups now resident in Pakistan.
This is a great development. However, the list above reads like a Who's Who of Foggy Bottom. All the think-tanks coming out in favour of India's position at the same time? How likely is that?

What are the likely negotiations going on behind the scene to make this happen? Did India have to give up something equally minor (say agreement to buy the C17)?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A Arun »

Zaid Hamid repeatedly defends LeT and JeM in his videos. In one of his recent videos where he was defending his links with fake prophet Yousuf Kazzab, he said "I'm pious only, our great jihadi tanzeems LeT and JeM support me". Today Zaid's goons attacked a group of pious students who were protesting against Zaid on the same issue. It turns out Zaid PA/security officer who bashed up the students is a former member of JeM. Later in the day, JeM denied any support for Zaid Hamid.
Out side I met a couple of students in the parking lot on a motor bike. They told me that Zaid Hamids, PA Emad Khalid, threatened to break their legs and kill them if they did some thing. Those poor things were so confused and scared that they decided to leave. I would like to remind you all again that Emad Khalid is a known associate of a state sponsored paramilitary, Jaish e Muhammad.

[Editor's Note: Sources from within Jaish e Muhammad have informed us that although Emad was a member of Jaish, he has no affiliation with the organization since 2006. The sources have further informed us that Jaish e Muhammd was never a supporter of Zaid Hamid and will never be a supporter of anyone associated with Yusuf Kazab. The sources categorically denied the false claims of some ex-members of Jaish who are not with Zaid Hamid. These ex-members are spreading the rumors that Jaish e Muhammad is fully supporting Zaid Hamid, the sources said that this is an absolute lie.]
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Rudradev »

Fidel,

MMS has been coming under increasing pressure, both within his own party and from the political opposition, over what many view as a foreign policy that relies excessively on going along with the US while Obama sarkar rewards us with negligence and Holbrookianisms.

The GOI has been feeling some heat on this... and has responded by the sharp rebuttal of Holbrooke's ISI cover-up following the Kabul attack, the recent rebuff to GOTUS over Iran policy, and even more recent warm pronouncements on Putin's visit.

In turn the Khans have staged this dog and pony show of a Congressional hearing on LeT. My guess is that it has to do with giving MMS' pro-US faction some breathing space, by showing us SDREs that gora Saab is indeed attentive to our terrorism concerns. Meanwhile on the ground, the US is placating the ISI over India's role in Afghanistan and arming the TSPA against India.

It is typical of an Obama sarkar that believes India's cooperation can be bought with grand dinners and televised hearings while Pakistan needs to have its strategic depth, military parity and "concerns about India" reassured.

I would be very surprised if the LeT hearing actually translates into any kind of concrete GOTUS action, comparable to their very real strengthening of Pakistan's ability to menace India.

I hope MMS realizes what's going on here.
Last edited by Rudradev on 15 Mar 2010 02:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

Perhaps some BRFer is better informed than the Editors of Dawn?
But there is a veritable alphabet soup of militant groups about which little is known. Here are just a few names: the Lashkar-i-Jhangvi, Jaish-i-Mohammad, Fidayeen-i-Islam, Harkatul Jihad al-Islami, Ghazi Force, Abdullah Azam Brigade, the ‘al Almi’ suffix attached to several groups, Sipah-i-Sahaba. What has the Pakistan Army or the government told the public about these threats? Who are the leaders of these groups? How large are their cadres, in the dozens, the hundreds, the thousands? Where do they operate? What is their agenda? The public knows next to nothing about the answers to each of these questions — and that information black hole is a serious worry.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Anujan »

Rudradev wrote:In turn the Khans have staged this dog and pony show of a Congressional hearing on LeT. My guess is that it has to do with giving MMS' pro-US faction some breathing space, by showing us SDREs that gora Saab is indeed attentive to our terrorism concerns. Meanwhile on the ground, the US is placating the ISI over India's role in Afghanistan and arming the TSPA against India.
Rudradev-ji

You might be correct, but there are two things to consider.

1. Mumbai could have happened anywhere. And contrary to mango SDREs who get up, dust their dhotis and move on with their lives, the political hysteria and repercussions in places like US will be quite a force to manage. So it is not in the west's interest to rely on the intent of the Jihadis not to attack them, but to destroy their capabilities to attack them.

2. Shady figures like Headley could have revealed information which makes Unkil brown his jeans. The pious are being attacked in A'stan and Iraq. How many of them will be placated with Unkil's shiny toys to Pak army? How many of them are itching to use their 26/11 capabilities against western targets? Especially if there is an iota of truth of what Pakis have been trying to convince the world (The terrorists have gone rogue and are no longer under our control). One of the crimes headley has been arrested for, is planning attack on danish newspaper. Why couldnt that very well be some unkil target next time around?
Last edited by Anujan on 15 Mar 2010 03:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Prem »

PAKISTAN’S BALKANISATION, FAZAL-UR REHMAN AFRIDI, Genocide of Pashtun Nation is underway
JUST LIKE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA, WE ARE WATCHING SOME DEVELOPMENTS IN PAKISTAN

http://balkanisationofpakistan.rsfblog. ... -army.html
By carrying out such suicide attacks against military installations in Punjab and other parts of Pakistan. Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan TTP and its Punjabi affiliates like banned Sipah-i-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP), Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LeJ), Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) and Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami have succeeded in creating a divide between the Punjabi officer class and their Punjabi and Pashtun soldiers, weakening their loyalty to the officers. Regarding Frontier Corps (FC), the Pashtuns soldiers have deserted in big numbers in protest against the Punjabi officers actions against civilian Pashtuns. It represent East-Pakistan like situation before the break-up of Pakistan in 1971. As the low-ranking soldiers have been indoctrinated into jihadist ideology by Pakistan Army , now it is very difficult for them to come to terms with the fast changing loyalties of Pakistan military Establishment for the sake earning money from USA.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Prem »

For Pakkhanastani Larki lurkers, While we take ride in RR... You keep your begging LOTA clean nd shiny.
Bentley Mulsanne Rolls Out To Indian Markets, Photos
http://www.panasianbiz.com/all-about-in ... ry-photos/

Quote:
The 2.9 crore beauty will be delivered to the Indian markets by October this year. “I think our expectations with Mulsanne has always been very strong. We don’t see the sales of the car but wait for its demand in the market. The moment I think would be strong we would probably be sold out, by the end of 2011,” said Chris Buxton the Bentley regional director.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by svinayak »

Samay wrote:
I think 50 yrs is a long long time to solve any problem ,if all decision makers decide to decide on it ,.
Not even Einstein relatively took that many years to create new solutions (problems in themselves) for young students of physics :((

why cant the pakistani problem be solved in couple decades ? well this is a wrong question ........

correct question is why our great politicians didnt solved it in 1965,71,84,89,99, 2001,2005,2008 .... till date

Or

Why they dont want to solve :?:
That is a very good question. Only few media groups such as Illustrated weekly gave coverage of jihadi training/Zia during the 70s and the 80s. Others just ignored the problem and Zia and were fan club of Zia-Ul-Haq ignoring his jihad machinery.
Somebody must have said in the 70s and 80s why are you giving coverage to Zia and his jihad troops and it will create problems. They were fan boys of Zia and published his charm offensive and his cricket diplomacy. Indian policymakers were sitting in their seat without taking any measures and reducing any threat to Kashmir and other areas. We all can see what was the outcome of that policy.

If such fan boys of Pakistan are still there in BRF they may beleieve that problem can be solved in 50 years if not earlier - otherwise they may still think that problem will solve by itself and they can count their fingers and keep the rest of the Indians ignorant.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gagan »

Drone attacks in Pakistan - the inside story - Najam Sethi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWnIv-SArqM

Also, I think this was posted here, but since someone's taken the trouble to edit it and upload the useful parts so here goes: Najam Sethi on India-Pak talks and relations.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7jbFrOrBJU
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52-B30smo20
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by A_Gupta »

Dawn: Sameer Lalwani's take on Pakistan's Afghanistan Strategy
The most disturbing consequence for Pakistan is that these economic trends are creating conditions for a de facto partitioned Afghan state. The more stable north and west — with international linkages, economic growth and acceptance of the Afghan central government and western troop presence — can emerge self-sufficient and defensible while pockets of insurgency engulf the south and east.

Pakistan’s support for certain Taliban elements that underwrite this territorial partition could result in a Pakhtun rump state that galvanises nationalist separatism in Pakistan’s tribal frontier. Rather than providing a zone for strategic depth, this ‘blowback’ scenario could redirect militant networks against the Pakistan state, thus compounding its security dilemmas, overstretched military and economic fragilities.
PS: added this excerpt, I hope it turns out thus:
China’s rising long-term investments in Afghanistan and expanding influence will make it increasingly intolerant of Pakistani-supported Taliban elements, especially those that prove disruptive to its economic interests or foment and support Uighur militancy in Xinjiang, as the Taliban did in the 1990s. This could cost Pakistan an arms supplier, a great-power patron and its wedge strategy with the US.
PPS: Nice psy-ops
Thanks to an Indian-constructed bridge in 2007 linking Afghanistan and Tajikistan...
:)
Last edited by A_Gupta on 15 Mar 2010 05:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gagan »

Najam Sethi talks to Wendy Chamberlin, she was with USAID, UNHCR. She was US ambassador for about 11 months during 9/11.
Part 1, 2 & 3: http://www.dunyanews.tv/newsite/play_pr ... 9&pid=1407 Armitage's ultimatum and the message she delivered to mushy.
Parts 2 & 3 is also on youtube:
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbJBj7In8C8 - Terrorism and mumbai 26/11, Pakistani terrorism, Af-Pak.
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEOyTI5lx3Y - KSA / Wahabism, Iran.
Last edited by Gagan on 15 Mar 2010 05:01, edited 2 times in total.
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