UAVs, Drones, Remote Surveillance Tech

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 04 Mar 2010 00:04

Can they make guided missiles remotely piloted. Like say a pilot drops a cruise missile, and another pilot on land guides the missile onto the target?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 04 Mar 2010 00:15

Carl_T wrote:Can they make guided missiles remotely piloted. Like say a pilot drops a cruise missile, and another pilot on land guides the missile onto the target?

NO. I believe the missiles are autonomous and guided by thier onboard radars, gps receivers and if they need to be corrected then they have inertial navigation. But you cannot have someone control the missile from Land, it can be programmed in a way that if the missile sees civilans it can veer off target and then explode in a safe zone, but cannot have another pilot on land guide the missile to target. Only other possibility with that is if they are Laser guided, but I don't think that is what you are reffering to here.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 04 Mar 2010 00:44

Craig: India has purchased the Harop, which is an UCAV but is not intended to come back from a mission - i.e. it guides itself (or is guided by an operator) to the target and detonates. Similarly, I remember reading that late model Tomahawks can send back real time video feeds and can be remotely controlled to attack alternate targets.

Many lines between an UCAV and cruise missiles are starting to blur.

The Rustom and Nirbhay projects can benefit from each other because of this convergence.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 13 Mar 2010 21:19

New Israeli drones can reach Iran

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 18 Mar 2010 05:46

Army Set Sights on Loitering Missile For Its Soldiers

The Indian Army is arming its infantry soldiers with a medium range loitering missile that can strike at a target after hovering over it for 30 minutes and sending in critical data on the enemy installation.

The army has issued an open Request for Information (RFI) to major global defence companies seeking to know if they can supply a missile system with such operational characteristics.

"The RFI has been issued earlier this month. The loitering missile is basically an unmanned aerial vehicle which can transmit data after hovering over a target undetected for about half-an-hour and later self-destruct on the target, inflicting damage to the enemy installations," an army officer said here today.

Since India does not have an indigenous product in this range of armed UAVs, the RFI sought details on the product's cruising speed, maximum range at which it can engage a target, its loitering time, data link's range, capabilities to hit and accuracy, attack from the top, abort an attack after locking on to target and re-designating a target during a mission.

Apart from seeking information on the radar cross section, the army has listed day and night camera payload, launcher, ground control station, data link system, and an inbuilt simulator as requirements for the missile system.

The army would also like the loitering missile to have a conventional warhead, apart from anti-tank and anti-material warheads with deep penetration against armour capability.

Globally, Israel Aerospace Industries and US' Lockheed Martin are the two major loitering missile developers and manufacturers.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 19 Mar 2010 12:44

I'm pretty damn sure the above project would be ideal for a mid sized engineering company in the private sector to take up.

Why does everything has to be purchased from abroad.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 19 Mar 2010 21:21

Suicide bomber drone from Israel

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=12548

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Mar 2010 22:34

question to gurus!

I see lot of sports-flying type aircraft in $100-150K range developed nation with 4-5 hour endurance and 500-700KM range, and 200-500KG payload. How best these engines are suitable for loitering and cruise missiles.

How difficult it is for our ISRO/DRDO type institution to form JVs with desi private sector companies in this field? IMO any one of 20-30 large industrial houses of India can buy one of these western companies ($50-100m capital range) and move those assembly lines to Desh.

thanks,

Bheem · Post by **Bheem** » 20 Mar 2010 01:00

I wonder why Nishant and lakshya cannot be modified into loitering munitions????????

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 23 Mar 2010 03:57

Harop Drone to enhance India's striking capabilities against the enemies

22 Mar 2010 8ak: The Indian army has issued a global Request for Information (RFI) about medium-range loitering missile systems, seeking details about their day and night camera payloads, ground control stations, data links, launchers and the like.

The RFI has been sent to Israeli firm – IAI Malat and US-based Raytheon, as these are one of the few companies that can manufacture such sophisticated and hi-tech systems. The loitering missile is basically a UAV which can transmit data after hovering over a target undetected for about half-an-hour and then hit a selected target. The Indian armed forces have inducted over 100 Israeli Searcher-II, Heron and other UAVs as `force-multipliers' in reconnaissance missions as well as for precision-strike operations.

The RFI states that the Army is interested in a system with capabilities that include top-attack and the ability to abort an attack after target lock (and re-designate). The Army wants a system where the launcher can be mounted on a Tatra truck. The RFI has sought details on the missile's cruising speed, maximum range at which it can engage a target, its loitering time, data link's range and the like.

The Headlines Today video says that these missiles cost about US$10 million a piece and hence these will be used very selectively. Industry sources say that this will be the second purchase of such systems by India and offset contracts are already underway for the first purchase.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 23 Mar 2010 04:04

Does India buy anything from Elbit?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 28 Mar 2010 01:26

http://www.emoiz.com/india-to-buy-drones-from-israel

Posting in full:

According to Indian media reports, in a contract inked with Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) a few days ago, India has ordered a few more `Heron” MALE (medium-altitude, long endurance) drones, ground control systems and data terminals for around Rs 700 crore, defence ministry sources said.

Under the latest deal, Indian Navy will now get two more Herons to add to its UAV fleet of eight Searcher-II and four Herons, which are being used for maritime surveillance up to 200 nautical miles.

There is also the ongoing Rs 1,163 crore joint IAI-DRDO project for NRUAVs (naval rotary UAVs) or unmanned helicopters operating from warship decks for advanced ISR (intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance) missions.

Indian Army is also going in for two more `troops” (8 birds each) of advanced Heron UAVs for Rs 1,118 crore after the Defence Acquisitions Council approved it in February 2009

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 28 Mar 2010 06:36

Carl_T wrote:Does India buy anything from Elbit?

I remember the Tauvex II scientific camera was supplied by Elbit, launched via GSAT-4 for the joint Indo-Israeli space reseach and galaxy exploration program a few years ago.. not sure if they've managed to score any defence contarcts at all..though they continue to exhibit their products in defexpo and aeroindia shows... need a better middle man i guess

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 28 Mar 2010 07:09

shukla wrote:
Carl_T wrote:Does India buy anything from Elbit?
I remember the Tauvex II scientific camera was supplied by Elbit, launched via GSAT-4 for the joint Indo-Israeli space reseach and galaxy exploration program a few years ago.. not sure if they've managed to score any defence contarcts at all..though they continue to exhibit their products in defexpo and aeroindia shows... need a better middle man i guess

IIRC the LCA pilots use the Display and Sight Helmet (DASH) made by Elbit.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 28 Mar 2010 12:40

Carl_T wrote:Can they make guided missiles remotely piloted. Like say a pilot drops a cruise missile, and another pilot on land guides the missile onto the target?

What would be advantages of such a system ? A cruise missile may be going hundreds of kms in enemy territory. We would not like an ac to go deep into Hun areas. Long range cruise missiles e.g. Tomahawk are self guided with GPS or TERCOM or something similar

This buddy system is used by LGBs. I think we did this in Kargil in 1999. One Jaguar droped a LGB which was "guided" to target with the designator pod on another Jag. Now i believe a Jag carries a LGB and its own designator.

An LGB dropped for an aircraft can be "illuminated" by a laser by grounds troops i.e. some SF personnel.

I believe that IAF has tried something rather unique. A LGB was released by an a/c and guided by a UAV.

K

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 29 Mar 2010 12:45

Carl_T wrote:Does India buy anything from Elbit?

Talking about Elbit and Indian contracts..heres some fresh news.... (although there is some logical guesswork from the author it doesn't seem to be too hard to believe considering a joint venture to develop advanced electronic warfare (EW) systems for their air forces' fighter aircraft was set up between between India's Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE), Bangalore and the Elisra Group, Bene Beraq, Israel in 2006.)

Elbit wins $147 million contract to supply airborne and ground electronic warfare systems in Asia (likely India)

Elbit Systems Ltd. announced today that its subsidiary, Elisra Electronic Systems Ltd., was awarded contracts to supply airborne and ground electronic warfare (EW) systems, for a customer in Asia, at an aggregate value of approximately $147 million. The systems will be delivered over the next three years.The unnamed customer is likely to be India.

Elisra CEO Itzhak Gat noted that the selection of Elisra's systems attests to the company's technological leadership and to the maturity of its systems. These contract awards strengthen Elisra's position as a recognized world leader in the Electronic Warfare market.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 30 Mar 2010 21:01

thanks! I was looking into buying some shares, I see that they have strong revenue growth, and was hoping that India would buy their products. This iz good.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 30 Mar 2010 21:02

Kersi D wrote:
Carl_T wrote:Can they make guided missiles remotely piloted. Like say a pilot drops a cruise missile, and another pilot on land guides the missile onto the target?
What would be advantages of such a system ? A cruise missile may be going hundreds of kms in enemy territory. We would not like an ac to go deep into Hun areas. Long range cruise missiles e.g. Tomahawk are self guided with GPS or TERCOM or something similar

This buddy system is used by LGBs. I think we did this in Kargil in 1999. One Jaguar droped a LGB which was "guided" to target with the designator pod on another Jag. Now i believe a Jag carries a LGB and its own designator.

An LGB dropped for an aircraft can be "illuminated" by a laser by grounds troops i.e. some SF personnel.

I believe that IAF has tried something rather unique. A LGB was released by an a/c and guided by a UAV.

K

I just thought that it would be a more accurate way of guiding the missile to its target.

Sri Harsha · Post by **Sri Harsha** » 30 Mar 2010 21:40

http://www.defencetalk.com/indra-develo ... ons-25338/

Nice looking Unmanned Helicopter

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 30 Mar 2010 22:14

^ The pic belongs to Schiebel Camcopter S-100
It even has Schiebel written on its sides

FDM i think!

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 31 Mar 2010 18:00

Ludhiana businessman designs 'half scale' UAV

A Ludhiana-based businessman who started off with aero modelling as a hobby has designed a 'half scale' unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV).

UAV is a light aerial vehicle used by the air force for border surveillance and light combat. Since it is an unmanned vehicle the Air Force uses it to navigate sensitive areas without loss of human life.

"After completing my college studies, I joined my family business, which is a company engaged in manufacturing bicycle parts known by the bhogal brand," Manjeev Bhogal, owner of Bhogal Hobby Tech, said.

"After joining the business, defence forces approached for aero modelling training because they were aware of my hobby because of NCC Air Wing. When they approached us we started giving training army personnel and officers as hobby flyers," he added.

Currently, the IAF trains its pilots with UAVs imported from Israel.

Manjeev Bhogal's company is now eyeing an order which will enable it to manufacture 'half- scale'UAVs at half the import price of 800,000 rupees.

For five years, Bhogal hobby tech has been manufacturing small training aero models for the UAV squadrons of the IAF, Indian Army and the Indian Navy training.

The company has supplied about 24 aero models and flight simulators to the National Cadet Corps (NCC) to train their cadets for microlite flying. (ANI)

Thats amazing.. Hats off...

biswas · Post by **biswas** » 31 Mar 2010 18:29

shukla wrote:Ludhiana businessman designs 'half scale' UAV

A Ludhiana-based businessman who started off with aero modelling as a hobby has designed a 'half scale' unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV).

UAV is a light aerial vehicle used by the air force for border surveillance and light combat. Since it is an unmanned vehicle the Air Force uses it to navigate sensitive areas without loss of human life.

"After completing my college studies, I joined my family business, which is a company engaged in manufacturing bicycle parts known by the bhogal brand," Manjeev Bhogal, owner of Bhogal Hobby Tech, said.

"After joining the business, defence forces approached for aero modelling training because they were aware of my hobby because of NCC Air Wing. When they approached us we started giving training army personnel and officers as hobby flyers," he added.

Currently, the IAF trains its pilots with UAVs imported from Israel.

Manjeev Bhogal's company is now eyeing an order which will enable it to manufacture 'half- scale'UAVs at half the import price of 800,000 rupees.

For five years, Bhogal hobby tech has been manufacturing small training aero models for the UAV squadrons of the IAF, Indian Army and the Indian Navy training.

The company has supplied about 24 aero models and flight simulators to the National Cadet Corps (NCC) to train their cadets for microlite flying. (ANI)
Thats amazing.. Hats off...

What exactly are 'half scale' UAVS?

Are they man portable like the Netra?

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 31 Mar 2010 18:40

^^^ A fully working model which operates at a capability lesser than its more esteemed cousin. The difference is analogous to the kirkeet players of under-19 versus the India ODI squad or India 'A' versus Team India.

Not sure with respect to your second question, AFAIK they would be like mini-gliders and would definitely use some handling.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 01 Apr 2010 05:58

India orders Israeli armed UAVs - in case US drones reach Pakistan

Sources close to the Indian defense ministry in New Delhi disclosed Wednesday, March 31, that a military purchasing mission was in Israel recently to expedite the purchase of a large number of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs or drones) armed with missiles, for deployment on its front lines against Pakistan.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 04 Apr 2010 05:17

US Airforce to launch robotic winged space plane

This is a hypersonic vehicle and sort of looks like Avatar and/or TSTO craft being experimented by ISRO

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 05 Apr 2010 01:54

World's smallest and lightest UAV developed

"The device has been manufactured using carbon fiber composites, and hence the name. Carbon's intuitive point and click graphical user interface requires minimal user assistance," said 26-year-old Ashish Bhat, one of the founders of Mumbai-based ideaForge Technology, which developed it.

Rajaneethan · Post by **Rajaneethan** » 05 Apr 2010 03:07

Picture of the smallest uav

Probably the biggest of the smallest uavs? or biggest-smallest... yeah ok! I think you get the point.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 05 Apr 2010 03:14

i've seen much smaller than that.

the question however is what kind of mission payload can it carry and to what altitude and what duration.

merely making a flying platform does not equal a uav.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Apr 2010 03:26

They pulled the picture out of their musharraf. Quadrotor UAVs look like this

Rajaneethan · Post by **Rajaneethan** » 05 Apr 2010 06:46

Ooops bin laden..Silly me, quad rotor(should give me a clue), but its still quite chunky, I can get a mosquito type thing, remote controlled from amazon.com for 20 dollars!!
Try the following link, its quite good.
[youtube]zfO-X34gkOQ&feature=PlayList&p=A945BCE2C9608C3F&playnext_from=PL&index=24&playnext=2[/youtube]

Ameet · Post by **Ameet** » 15 Apr 2010 00:07

India wants fleet of Israeli killer UAVs

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/India ... s_999.html

India is seeking to acquire Israeli killer drones for use against insurgents but possibly against terrorist groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan as well.

Now New Delhi wants to muster at least 25-30 of the armed unmanned aerial vehicles from Israel, one of its key arms suppliers and a global leader in unmanned aerial vehicle technology.

At present, it has five armed unmanned combat aerial vehicles.

But, Asia Times Online says, "Israeli arms suppliers have been briefed by New Delhi that future UAV fleets to India should comprise a 'bigger dose' of attack UAVs."

So, "in keeping with new threat dimensions," the Indian air force is looking to induct Israeli Harop killer UAVs from 2011 onward. "Other sections of the armed forces are likely to follow."

But the Indians could find themselves with a problem if they opt for the Harpy and probably the Harop as well.

Israel clashed with the United States, its strategic ally, when it sold early model Harpys to China in 1994 for $5 million.

Washington insisted the contract be scrapped, claiming the UAV contains U.S. technology. IAI claimed it was an Israeli design.

When Beijing sent the Harpys back to Israeli for upgrading, the Israelis had to return them without improvements.

Since the Americans won't sell India UCAVs, presumably because it won't even provide them to the Pakistanis who are killing Taliban as well, it may be Washington will block Israeli Harpy sales to New Delhi as well.

The Indians may prefer IAI's unique long-range Heron TP, dubbed the Eitan, which has an endurance of 24-36 hours and can operate about 40,000 feet.

Although primarily designed for surveillance and reconnaissance, it can carry weapons and is comparable in size, payload and performance to the U.S. MQ-9 Reaper, an enlarged version of the venerable Predator.

There seems little doubt that it can be armed with Hellfire missiles and perhaps even configured to carry 500-pound bombs.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 15 Apr 2010 12:43

India seems to hardly manufacture anything.

Everything is just purchased from abroad at huge expense.

Give a few of the large engineering companies a contract to produce a UAV.

Brahmananda · Post by **Brahmananda** » 15 Apr 2010 12:50

well Northrop is keen on selling India the Firescout which an armed unmanned copter, so it isnt correct to say that US isnt offering, i am pretty sure we can acquire the Reaper if we just ask for it.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 15 Apr 2010 13:28

Don't know about Reaper, but Breaper will soon be on your case

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 15 Apr 2010 17:26

India tests UAV for anti-Naxal operations

Unmanned Aerial Vehicles, used by US forces to track down Taliban militants, successfully flew over over the dense forests of Bastar in the first trial run for anti-naxal operations. The trials, which assumed urgency after the Dantewada massacre in which 76 security personnel were killed by Maoists, were aimed at generating real-time intelligence information to help ground forces in any offensive. The first trial involved an American UAV.

The decision to have UAV flights was taken by the Union Home Ministry after the April six attack and their field trials were ordered immediately. An UAV of US' Honeywell, whose pilotless planes are reportedly used successfully by allied forces in the hunt for targets in war-hit Afghanistan and Iraq, flew during the night trial

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 15 Apr 2010 20:42

Brahmananda wrote:well Northrop is keen on selling India the Firescout which an armed unmanned copter, so it isnt correct to say that US isnt offering, i am pretty sure we can acquire the Reaper if we just ask for it.

We are getting the Heron which is similar.

sum · Post by **sum** » 15 Apr 2010 20:57

Unmanned Aerial Vehicles, used by US forces to track down Taliban militants, successfully flew over over the dense forests of Bastar in the first trial run for anti-naxal operations. The trials, which assumed urgency after the Dantewada massacre in which 76 security personnel were killed by Maoists, were aimed at generating real-time intelligence information to help ground forces in any offensive. The first trial involved an American UAV.

Even this is American?

Whatever happened to Nishant and the Yahudi UAVs we have currently?

Edited : Seems it is for "microlight" UAVs. Surely, such UAVs abound even in our educational institutions( as student projects). Do we need to import even this?

wesley · Post by **wesley** » 16 Apr 2010 07:34

Confirmation: India has signed up to purchase Israel's Harop hunter-killer UAV. Deliveries should reportedly begin next year.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... tions.html

This particular article also confirms that India already deploys the smaller Harpy hunter-killer UAV - reportedly purchased several years ago. The Harop adds additional range, as well as a man-in-the-loop capability that the Harpy neglected.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 16 Apr 2010 10:27

Mean while in the Maoist heartland...
UAV tested in Bastar

I have a question here. The above report says a US made UAV was used. Cant we use any of our indegenous UAVs. Or are they still in a stage, where we cannot use it for mission critical scenarios? Was just thinking about why not using home grown stuff to tackle problems at home (Maoism).

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 16 Apr 2010 10:51

Sachin wrote:Mean while in the Maoist heartland...
UAV tested in Bastar

I have a question here. The above report says a US made UAV was used. Cant we use any of our indegenous UAVs. Or are they still in a stage, where we cannot use it for mission critical scenarios? Was just thinking about why not using home grown stuff to tackle problems at home (Maoism).

Hi,

The UAV they are testing is the Honeywell Micro Air Vehicle which has vertical take off capability and is back-packable. This allows it to be used in a dense forest environment (due to vertical takeoffs) and it can be used by the troops themselves when needed to quickly scan an area before moving in. I do not think that we have developed any vertical take off UAVs yet (correct me if I'm wrong).

Here is a brief video of the UAV on the Honeywell website-

Micro Air Vehicles - This article talks about some deployment aspects of this kind of UAV

Also,

It is alse being used in Iraq to detect IEDs