Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 04 Apr 2010 21:51

Altair wrote:Shiv,
Perhaps only you can answer my piskological doubt.
I forwarded the video link to friends and colleagues at my work place. I got one strange reply.
"Would yo have forwarded the mail if the terrorists were Hindu and they were doing the same in Pakistan?"
The real question is:Can a Hindu do it?
the answer is "DEAD NO".
But to be absolutely honest,after watching the video numerous times just to get my blood boiling, I have developed a sadistic pleasure whenever I see IED demonstrate its prowess in pakiland. Is it possible that, we too will mutate like the Jews/Israelis did after WW2? May be its not too far when Indians will have absorbed too much that we will start behaving like the Israelis (i.e) "Disproportionate Response". Answer terror with more terror.
Then,my answer to the question posed by the guy may not be as forthcoming as it is today.
If it entails a response in a different thread please do so.
Thanks
Altair

Though it is addressed to Shiv, I would like to place my two cents here.

Islam has its origin in a society which favoured force in order to expand, being a new religion. Violence was an existential necessity and also to gather more followers. The expansion of islam has always been violent and at the cost of existing society. Conversion by force is not proscribed here.

On the other hand Christianity suffered greatly during its initial period and only flourished when Imperial patronage was extended. Primarily, they have based their expansion on sacrifice by Jesus and message of love.

Of necessity, two proselytizing religions have come in violent contact with each other and terms 'crusade' and 'jehad' has acquired more popular meaning. Other religions or societies have either surrendered or converted or fought back or in rare cases coexisted though confrontations did take place. Last case is that of India where both religions have come through their religious preachers and business interest and later invaded the land lured by untold riches of its people and temples.

The proselytizing agenda of Islam is not yet over and the global jehad and desire to impose sharia law, that we see now , is continuance of the basic premises . Hence. you may see some reaction here and there, from target societies/religions, which are actions of self defense at best. This is not to say that some deviant elements are not present but numbers may be few and far between.

They have been responsible for almost complete elimination of some of the dominant faiths and they have survived in India alone . Parsis, Jews( found welcome shelter in India) etc.Existential threat to the target societies/religion is so great that counter reaction is very much possible

So my answer would be to take action against such elements as per law and not to allow it to become part of global enterprise.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Apr 2010 22:27

shiv wrote:Altair let me give a rude reply. No matter which way you try to shape a turd it remains a turd. Don't try to change turds. They will always exist. You just keep doing what you need to do.

Why are there no people from across the border who say "Hinduism is a religion of Peace and Indians are just like us who want to live in peace" like we have people here (dupattas,dhothis,bhatts etc..) saying " Islam is a peaceful religion and Pakistanis are just like us who want to live in peace"
Is it that Pakistan have completely cleaned their turds??

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Apr 2010 22:35

A_Gupta wrote:Altair,

The answer is "Yes, absolutely".

-Arun

PS : See this story on Hissa Hilal
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/2 ... 08778.html

She's the Saudi poetess who is in the news for blasting fundamentalist fatwas in her poetry, recited on a popular Arabic reality TV show.

Arun,
Firstly Thanks for answering honestly.

See this is the part I dont understand.
If she wishes to take on the system,fatwas and islamic terror,why is she wearing a hijab? Isnt she contradicting herself when she talks about removing fear in women? The next thing you hear from this women is a Miss Arab contest where all contestants are covered head to toe in black. These people never stand a chance.
Altair

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Apr 2010 22:44

Carl_T wrote:I have to say though, that view is not uncommon. I remember on 26/11 I was speaking to a Paki Pakhtun friend, a reasonably well educated and quite knowledgeable person about Af-Pak, who is certainly no extremist. His response was "It was probably those RSS people who did those blasts a month earlier".

These theories are developed and spread during their friday prayers. Your Paki Pakhtun friend may not realize he is infected by a dangerous virus, he caught during those friday prayer gatherings and sermons by Imams. Education has nothing to do with it.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 04 Apr 2010 22:47

Would be true, but is at a university, so no Imams, all prayers are student-led. Point is, these views are not that uncommon from what I've witnessed. Pakistanis seem to have an unflappably esteemed view of themselves and other Muslims so that any harm accused of them is quickly dismissed.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Apr 2010 22:54

Carl_T wrote:Would be true, but is at a university, so no Imams, all prayers are student-led. Point is, these views are not that uncommon from what I've witnessed. Pakistanis seem to have an unflappably esteemed view of themselves and other Muslims so that any harm accused of them is quickly dismissed.

This type of behavior is generally attributed to people who know deep down that they are wrong but cannot let anyone point it out. A kind of inferiority complex.

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 04 Apr 2010 22:56

shiv wrote:
Altair wrote:Shiv,
Perhaps only you can answer my piskological doubt.
I forwarded the video link to friends and colleagues at my work place. I got one strange reply.
"Would yo have forwarded the mail if the terrorists were Hindu and they were doing the same in Pakistan?"

The correct answer for oiseaules with oiseaule questions is:
Of Course! of course! Please point me to a video with Hindus doing in Pakistan what this video shows and I will gladly forward it to everyone I know. In the meantime please enjoy the video I have sent you"
Piskologically people want a one up on you and will corner you with a rhetorical question because they feel takleef. They would rather stay in their comfortable psec cocoon. The irritation they feel is cognitive dissonance and the question is to try and hold on to their beliefs. . The thing to do is not to get cornered and pretend that you are as concerned as they are to suffer from equalitis. "You and I we both believe in the same things. Hindus thoo. And Islamists - check my video. And don't forget to send me a ~~postcard~~ equalequal video link. Cheers"

Never argue. Always agree. And use their argument as evidence of "interest" and pile on their misery. Never get angry. Only patience. If they get angry never show triumph. Never say "I was right, you were wrong". They will bite a bait of shit when they are angry unless you botch it by laughing or showing triumphalism.

wah wah shiv sir,, what a reply .

I do laugh a lot on these when their pisko analogy turns opposite and their plans never fulfill ,they blame it on raw,mossad,etc,. never look inside.
culturally speaking they are never told since birth ,that one could even look inside, ...any attempts are restricted by the fears of djinns,satan,witchcraft etc,..

Europeans took a long time but finally changed,there was a continous struggle inside,but in case of tsp and goat types ,it seems thats never gonna happen..

piskoos if they ever try to dominate should be told to look inside and upon their deeds,thats enough to silence them,rest assured when they lose their zeal they understand or go back to their holes.!,,thats what ZZH types try to prevent from happenng by constant rhetorics and
brainwash,...

negativeness is their weapon,darkness is their atmosphere where they breed, thats why they wanted a separate dark corner nation...well their plans failed again as their land turned out to be a hot spot,.....

added later:^^ altair also seems to be reaching this same conclusion

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Apr 2010 23:12

Altair wrote: If she wishes to take on the system,fatwas and islamic terror,why is she wearing a hijab? Isnt she contradicting herself when she talks about removing fear in women? The next thing you hear from this women is a Miss Arab contest where all contestants are covered head to toe in black. These people never stand a chance.
Altair

Altair,

Where Hissa Hilal comes from (Saudi Arabia) women, even when burqa-clad, have severe restrictions on travel, going to work, and so on. The opinions of women are described there as being the same as one's private parts - not to be seen in public. No one can take on all of the system in one shot. One should give her a A for trying.

Will she succeed? Who knows? I agree it seems highly unlikely. But if you think about it, whom have Islamic fundamentalists most killed, wounded, terrorized - by the numbers it is Muslims, and specifically Muslim women. Ultimately, stopping this nonsense has to come from within, and for that Muslim women have to gain power.

-Arun

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Apr 2010 23:20

(a) I think we made a big mistake in letting one election in 1946 determine who defines Islam. Likewise with 9/11. We should always contest it.

(b) Read this book review of CHRISTIANITY - The First Three Thousand Years
by Diarmaid MacCulloch
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/books ... ham-t.html

The reviewer, Jon Meacham :

A word of disclosure: I am an Episcopalian who takes the faith of my fathers seriously (if unemotionally), and I would, I think, be disheartened if my own young children were to turn away from the church when they grow up. I am also a critic of Christianity, if by critic one means an observer who brings historical and literary judgment to bear on the texts and traditions of the church.

Yet he quotes without rancor

“For most of its existence, Christianity has been the most intolerant of world faiths,” MacCulloch says, “doing its best to eliminate all competitors, with Judaism a qualified exception.”

There is an example here.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 04 Apr 2010 23:29

A_Gupta wrote: No one can take on all of the system in one shot. One should give her a A for trying.

Will she succeed? Who knows? I agree it seems highly unlikely. But if you think about it, whom have Islamic fundamentalists most killed, wounded, terrorized - by the numbers it is Muslims, and specifically Muslim women. Ultimately, stopping this nonsense has to come from within, and for that Muslim women have to gain power.

-Arun

Arun,
I am sure we all remember Mukhtaran Mai,the gang rape victim which had damaged paki H&D quite a lot. There are probably thousands of such cases every year in Pakistan. None get reported for obvious reasons. If it had to come from within it would have come by now. That poor women was made to resign from power position due to Unkil blinking to Musharraf. Thats the fate they have to accept. The only chance they have is all out war.Nothing else will work.
Altair

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Apr 2010 02:19

Altair wrote: I am sure we all remember Mukhtaran Mai,the gang rape victim which had damaged paki H&D quite a lot. There are probably thousands of such cases every year in Pakistan. None get reported for obvious reasons. If it had to come from within it would have come by now. That poor women was made to resign from power position due to Unkil blinking to Musharraf. Thats the fate they have to accept. The only chance they have is all out war.Nothing else will work.
Altair

When it comes it will be as dramatic, rapid and unexpected as the vanishing of the Soviet Union.

PS: The first 2 paras of Nadeem Paracha is what we have to reclaim.

PPS: If and when I criticize India, I try to make sure there is no equal-equal involved.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 05 Apr 2010 03:26

Eleven killed in gunbattle with police in Peshawar

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 05 Apr 2010 04:22

SSridhar wrote:From TFT
Such Gup
Sign of the times

In a clear sign of the times, we hear that upon taking over, the Min of Fin spent all of twenty minutes with Hubby, twenty five with Gill on the Hill and an hour and a half with Canny. {Even Hillay Clinton did that, why not a poor Pakistani ?}

Soft corner

The Man of Steel’s Talented Bro has admitted that he has a soft corner for the Taliban and fundos of all stripe. True to his statement, rumour has it, he has released from imprisonment a dangerous terrorist, self-confessed “tormentor of Shias”, leading activist of a banned sectarian outfit, a man known as AB. This Talented Bro did, we hear, at the insistence of a particular maulana, at whose seminary in Chiniot a free AB went and held forth and spewed his venom. The maulana had called on both brothers at Raiwind, reports our mole, before the Punjab by-elections, and promised them all the votes of his ilk. The jalsa in Chiniot was also attended by the chief of another banned sectarian organization, who propagated his case in the full light of day. How about some suo moto notice of things like this, your lordships?

This fits in with my assessment that Nawaz is less hardline than Shahbaz. During the Lahore declearation Shahbaz was reportedly unhappy with the way things were going and was of the opinion that man of steel was giving a lot away to India.

He is also reportedly fluent in Arabic. If I am not wrong,his son's name is Hamza???

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 05 Apr 2010 05:12

shiv wrote:
Samay wrote: The title of this video looks too offensive ..
biss to add links of more videos on comment sections
he he he

Anyhow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QehgTIOmkmQ

Shiv,

There was a transcript of this intercepted conversation translated by some BRFites at your request. However, I cannot seem to find it on BRF. Do you still have it some where? If so, a link will be greatly appreciated. I would like to post it on my blog. Thanks!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Apr 2010 05:48

First gas-fired rental power plant inaugurated: Zardari invites foreign investors
LARKANA

(April 05 2010): President Asif Zardari on Sunday urged foreign investors to take advantage of the business opportunities in Pakistan and establish energy and infrastructure projects in partnership with provincial governments.He was speaking at the inauguration ceremony of the first gas-fired rental power plant of 51MW at Naudero, district Larkana. President Zardari said power producers were of benefit to Pakistan, as they kept the country out of darkness.President Zardari thanked the Walter Power International, which has set up the power plant for making investment in the interior of Sindh, saying that it will create thousands of jobs for people. The company has a history of setting up power projects in Pakistan, he added.

http://www.brecorder.com/index.php?id=1 ... =&supDate=

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Apr 2010 05:56

Mr.Magoo does to Washington.

WASHINGTON: The US nuclear summit will not be a meet-and-greet sojourn for Prime Minister Magoo Gilani, who arrives in the American capital on April 11 to join other world leaders seeking to curb proliferation of nuclear materials. The Pakistan Embassy announced on Saturday that Mr Magooi would reach Washington on April 11 with Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi and a small delegation. He would leave for Islamabad on the night of April 13, after attending the summit. The conference’s goals -– the security of nuclear materials and preventing them from getting into the hands of terrorists -– provide an easy opportunity to those planning to use the event for embarrassing Pakistan. But Mr Magoo can hope to get some support from Chinese President Hu Jintao who confirmed on Thursday that he too would attend the summit. The confirmation followed US President Barack Obama’s one-hour call to the Chinese leader aimed at persuading Mr Hu to come personally instead of sending a representative.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... -440-hh-04

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 05 Apr 2010 05:56

"Total trade between India and Pakistan is about $2 billion a year. A pittance. If you look at indirect trade that is run through Dubai, it is on the order of $3 billion. And there is another amount through Singapore, which is the long and wrong way to do trade. You trade most with your immediate neighbors. Before partition [Pakistan was created by the division of some provinces of western India in 1947], 70 percent of the areas that are now Pakistan and the adjoining areas of India were trading, and if you got back to that level, you'd be talking about $50 billion. India needs a lot of things that Pakistan produces and vice versa. India's biggest trading partners are the U.S. and China. Why shouldn't it be Pakistan?

"This has security implications. A big hindrance to opening the border is terrorism and the attack on Mumbai. But the dividends would create large vested interest groups on both sides, and among the general population on both sides.

"At the political level, the Indians are extremely sensitive in any third-party involvement with Pakistan, so Geithner has to be aware of that. But in closed-door meetings, there could be some discussion of regional integration, and what really stands in the way of opening borders for businesses and crossborder investment."

Pakistanis didn't choose partition to have regional integration. An economy the size of India's cannot have Pakistan as it major trading partner.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Apr 2010 06:02

Karan Dixit wrote: There was a transcript of this intercepted conversation translated by some BRFites at your request. However, I cannot seem to find it on BRF. Do you still have it some where? If so, a link will be greatly appreciated. I would like to post it on my blog. Thanks!

I am sure I have it somewhere on one of my disks. Where do you want me to send it - or do you want to drop an email to my public email bennedose at hotmail?

Vivek_A · Post by **Vivek_A** » 05 Apr 2010 06:10

India needs a lot of things that Pakistan produces

Really? Name 5 "things"

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Apr 2010 06:17

^^^^^
It appears that India and Pakistan can act as buffers for each other, e.g, when the price of onions or potatoes in India shoots up, Pakistan typically has supply; and vice versa.

Perhaps the most valuable thing Pakistan has from Indian POV is transit for Iranian gas.

A second valuable thing is access to Afghanistan and CAR beyond.

Try as I might, I cannot think of items 4 and 5.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 05 Apr 2010 06:32

shiv wrote:
Karan Dixit wrote: There was a transcript of this intercepted conversation translated by some BRFites at your request. However, I cannot seem to find it on BRF. Do you still have it some where? If so, a link will be greatly appreciated. I would like to post it on my blog. Thanks!

I am sure I have it somewhere on one of my disks. Where do you want me to send it - or do you want to drop an email to my public email bennedose at hotmail?

Please email it to me at karan.dixit at live.com. Thanks!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Apr 2010 06:34

Altair wrote:
shiv wrote:Altair let me give a rude reply. No matter which way you try to shape a turd it remains a turd. Don't try to change turds. They will always exist. You just keep doing what you need to do.
Why are there no people from across the border who say "Hinduism is a religion of Peace and Indians are just like us who want to live in peace" like we have people here (dupattas,dhothis,bhatts etc..) saying " Islam is a peaceful religion and Pakistanis are just like us who want to live in peace"
Is it that Pakistan have completely cleaned their turds??

If you look at your own question - this is what we are fighting. We are fighting the Pakislamic elimination of anyone who disagrees. Those people do not exist because they are eliminated/silenced in Pakistan, but people of that type exist here because we do not eliminate them. You can look at India as a free market for ideas where no specific idea is killed. That is what allows variety to survive.

If I must go down this route any further I would have to start talking about Islam, its doctrine and its history. No more of that on here. The video says what needs to be said. Talking about these things openly causes so much takleef to so many people that they react. The YouTube removal of one video is a typical example of how saying things explicitly causes anger. The message on YouTube's login page was even more hypocritical - but YouTube itself is an outgrowth of a hypocritical society that allows terrible violence but does not want to face up to the fact that it is going on or necessarily be neutral. Here is the message:

Sometimes people do get hurt and its inevitable that these events may be documented on YouTube. However YouTube is not a shock site. It is not OK to post gross-out videos of accidents, dead bodies or similar things intended to be shocking, sensational or disrespectful

The message is clear. "We know it is happening. But we think it must not be shown." If Pakistanis massacre 168 civilians we on YouTube acknowledge that "sometimes people do get hurt" but we consider showing what happened on YouTube as a "gross out video". "We own the site. We dictate the content"

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 05 Apr 2010 06:39

e.g, when the price of onions or potatoes in India shoots up, Pakistan typically has supply; and vice versa.

There is an enormous poorly managed agricultural reserve in India-any idea how many potatoes Bihar could grow? Further India needs intra-country transport links-to NE and Orissa and rural MP before pumping rupees into a land where the culture is terrorism.

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 05 Apr 2010 06:39

Who is this character Sunil Sharan?

The quoted article below is by one Sunil Sharan in this morning's on-line edition of Dawn. He talks about the political ambitions of PC of wanting to become the PM! The article does not seem to have been reproduced from any Indian publication.

INDIA’S home minister, P. Chidambaram, publicly promised swift and decisive action against Pakistan on the very day this year, March 12, that Lahore was rocked by mindless violence. Nary a hint of commiseration was expressed by him.

A mild-mannered man of culture has metamorphosed into a tough-talking, intemperate hawk since taking over the home ministry in the immediate aftermath of 26/11.
...
Of the main contenders {for the post of PM}, Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee’s own advanced age of 74 and seeming independence go against him. In any case, he has been denied twice, in 1984 as well as in 2004. Defence Minister A.K. Antony’s origins in the small state of Kerala do him no favours. PC, at 64, still has age on his side. Indira Gandhi inducted him into the Congress in 1967, and he has remained a faithful family retainer ever since.
...

link

He seems to be knowledgeable about Indian politics. So, I don't believe he is a Pakistani writer assuming an Indian/Hindu-sounding name.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 05 Apr 2010 06:45

r_subramanian wrote:Who is this character Sunil Sharan?

The quoted article below is by one Sunil Sharan in this morning's on-line edition of Dawn. He talks about the political ambitions of PC of wanting to become the PM! The article does not seem to have been reproduced from any Indian publication.

INDIA’S home minister, P. Chidambaram, publicly promised swift and decisive action against Pakistan on the very day this year, March 12, that Lahore was rocked by mindless violence. Nary a hint of commiseration was expressed by him.

A mild-mannered man of culture has metamorphosed into a tough-talking, intemperate hawk since taking over the home ministry in the immediate aftermath of 26/11.
...
Of the main contenders {for the post of PM}, Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee’s own advanced age of 74 and seeming independence go against him. In any case, he has been denied twice, in 1984 as well as in 2004. Defence Minister A.K. Antony’s origins in the small state of Kerala do him no favours. PC, at 64, still has age on his side. Indira Gandhi inducted him into the Congress in 1967, and he has remained a faithful family retainer ever since.
...
link

He seems to be knowledgeable about Indian politics. So, I don't believe he is a Pakistani writer assuming an Indian/Hindu-sounding name.

Same guy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sunil-sharan

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Apr 2010 06:49

Vivek_A wrote:
India needs a lot of things that Pakistan produces
Really? Name 5 "things"

Here. Take a dozen..

1) India needs to learn about humanity and equality from Pakistan
2) India needs to learn about cleanliness from Pakistan
3) India needs to acknowledge that history cannot be wished away and that some people will always be inferior until they learn civilized ways
4) Indian vast mass of hungry poor can learn from Pakistani food production techniques
5) India's minorities need to understand what it means to live in a just society - a lesson that only Pakistan can teach them
6) India needs to be broken up into several pieces - a lesson that only Pakistan can teach India. Well.
7) Pakistan's world class universities can give those stupid handful of IITs a run for their money. 5 colleges for 1 billion starving people?
8) Pakistan's experience in the building of infrastructure (just look at our roads) is unparalleled
9) Pakistan's technology is way ahead of India. The JF 17 (a Pakistan designed aircraft), and the Al Zarar are products of home-grown Pakistani in house research and development technology that is the best in this God's earth.
10) Pakistani cuisine is something that India can learn from.
11) Pakistani culture - it is a wonder that a small nation of barely 150 millllion can outshine a billion dull people in culture and art.
12) Pakistani movies and music - Indians slobber after them but it is the policies of the Hindutva government who keep Sikh and Christian puppets at the top and do back seat driving to fear Pakistan and keep Pakistan out.

Pakistan Painidabutt!

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 05 Apr 2010 06:56

India inks Mirage deal, France says no to Pak

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ak/600042/

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 05 Apr 2010 07:01

Carl_T wrote:
r_subramanian wrote:Who is this character Sunil Sharan?

...
Same guy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sunil-sharan

Thanks Carl_T

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 05 Apr 2010 07:06

Adding #13 to Shiv's excellent list:
13. A truly secular leader like Jinnah.

---
BTW, the theory of trade does not say you buy from others what you cannot produce. You buy from others where they have a comparative advantage. You in turn your productive capacity to where you have a comparative advantage. Both sides of the trade become more efficient and this is how trade is win-win.
---
But there are a few theoretical/historical treatises out there which purport to find that commercial ties are only ancillary to diplomacy. I.e., a dissolution of enmity requires diplomatic settlement first, and then trade. How Enemies Become Friends, by Charles Kupchan is one such.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Apr 2010 07:07

Vivek_A wrote:
India needs a lot of things that Pakistan produces
Really? Name 5 "things"

On second thoughts:(and sorry if you all have heard this 20 times in the past..)

Once upon a time all the organs of the human body decided to have a competition to see who was the greatest of them all.

The brain said, "I think and control everything, I am therefore the greatest"
The eyes said "We are you window to the world. Without us you cannot survive"
The lungs said "We supply life giving oxygen. If we strike work.You are dead"
The heart said "Rubbish, non of you will work unless I am fit and working"
The intestines said: "Think what you like - but without me nobody will survive for more than 5 days after birth"
The regenerative organs said "Ha ha - none of you can even be born without us!"

In the meantime, sitting and listening to all this was Pakistan (musharraf/a$$hole/anus). Pakistan was wondering what it could do when it suddenly found its inner Pakistani. It clamped shut and refused to allow the inner Pakistani out. Ad the crap built up and built up and built up in the body. The toxins stayed in. The pain was unbearable. The brain became woozy. Th eyes became unfocused. The lungs began to labor and the heart became slow. The intestines writhed in agony and the regenerative organs cocked up. Someone asked "What's going on?" and someone replied "Pakistan is playing up"

Then every organ realised the importance of Pakistan to the world and they all acknowledged its greatness and said "You Pakistan are the greatest of the lot". When they said that Pakistan opened up, allowed the inner Pakistani out and rested, knowing its superiority.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 05 Apr 2010 07:29

A_Gupta wrote:^^^^^
It appears that India and Pakistan can act as buffers for each other, e.g, when the price of onions or potatoes in India shoots up, Pakistan typically has supply; and vice versa.

Perhaps the most valuable thing Pakistan has from Indian POV is transit for Iranian gas.

A second valuable thing is access to Afghanistan and CAR beyond.

Try as I might, I cannot think of items 4 and 5.

4. How can you forget the jihadi export business, hain jee. We could fill our jails with jihadis.
5. They could also provide access to their institutions of higher education, we have vedic math, they have madarassa math, ==onlee.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 05 Apr 2010 07:42

Give them concession, they can sell the land they occupy now and go back to the home of Muhhamad Bin Kamsim .

khan · Post by **khan** » 05 Apr 2010 08:00

From the WSJ:

U.S. Aims to Ease India-Pakistan Tension

President Barack Obama issued a secret directive in December to intensify American diplomacy aimed at easing tensions between India and Pakistan, asserting that without détente between the two rivals, the administration's efforts to win Pakistani cooperation in Afghanistan would suffer. Aaman Ki Asha anyone?

Indian officials said they have received no requests from the U.S. to scale back India's rebuilding efforts in Afghanistan, and don't plan to change those initiatives."We're in Afghanistan to help the government; we don't do anything they aren't asking us to do," said an Indian official. India's engagement with Kabul is broad and deep, giving Afghan President Hamid Karzai an important diplomatic ally in the region. It has given Afghanistan more than $1.5 billion in aid, building roads and laying power lines, among other projects. India, with its own well-developed bureaucracy, trains about 700 Afghan civil servants a year in India.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Apr 2010 08:20

This is the state of sorry affairs in PoK. The Prime Minister of PoK dismisses the Chief Justice of PoK's Supreme Court and the President of PoK 'restores' him.
PoK President 'restores' deposed chief justice

PoK President Raja Zulqarnain Khan reinstated deposed Supreme Court Chief Justice Riaz Akhtar Chaudhry after consulting legal experts, while PoK Prime Minister Raja Farooq Haider termed the president’s decision unconstitutional, a private TV channel reported on Sunday.

President Zulqarnain landed in Islamabad after cutting his UK visit short and met experts there. After the meeting, the president annulled the decision to sack Justice Riaz and directed that he be reinstated.

Addressing reporters at the Kashmir House in Islamabad, Prime Minister Haider – accompanied by Law and Parliamentary Affairs Minister Abdul Rashid Abbasi – it was incumbent upon the president to act upon his advice, as the 1974 constitution of PoK was different from the 1973 constitution of Pakistan.

Reinstatement: He said the PoK president could not issue an order to reinstate the deposed CJ without his consent. He said Justice Riaz had been ousted on the recommendation of the Supreme Judicial Council and could only be reinstated on the advice of the PM or the SJC.

Meanwhile, PoK Legislative Assembly Speaker Shah Ghulam Qadir said President Zulqarnain had violated Article 7 of the 1974 constitution. Differences have surfaced between the president and the prime minister in the state after the reinstatement of the deposed chief justice, he added.

Separately, according to a private TV channel, PoK President Zulqarnain called on Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani, who is the chairman of the Kashmir Council, at the PM’s House in Islamabad and discussed the constitutional as well as the judicial crisis with Gilani, who refused to play a role or interfere in the matter.

PoK CJ Justice Riaz also restored SC Registrar Fazil Hashmi, who had been removed from office by acting CJ Justice Manzoor Hassan Gilani.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Apr 2010 08:28

Drones Batter Qaeda and Allies Within Pakistan

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/world ... rones.html

A stepped-up campaign of American drone strikes over the past three months has battered Al Qaeda and its Pakistani and Afghan brethren in the tribal area of North Waziristan, according to a mid-ranking militant and supporters of the government there.

The strikes have cast a pall of fear over an area that was once a free zone for Al Qaeda and the Taliban, forcing militants to abandon satellite phones and large gatherings in favor of communicating by courier and moving stealthily in small groups, they said.

...

The strikes have sharpened tensions between the local tribesmen and the militants, who have dumped bodies with signs accusing the victims of being American spies in Miram Shah, the main town in North Waziristan, they said.

...

By all reports, the bombardment of North Waziristan, and to a lesser extent South Waziristan, has become fast and furious since a combined Taliban and Qaeda suicide attack on a C.I.A. base in Khost, in southern Afghanistan, in late December.

...

The strikes have become so ferocious, “It seems they really want to kill everyone, not just the leaders,” said the militant, who is a mid-ranking fighter associated with the insurgent network headed by Jalaluddin and Sirajuddin Haqqani. By “everyone” he meant rank-and-file fighters, though civilians are being killed, too.

Tactics used just a year ago to avoid the drones could not be relied on, he said. It is, for instance, no longer feasible to sleep under the trees as a way of avoiding the drones. “We can’t lead a jungle existence for 24 hours every day,” he said.

Militants now sneak into villages two at a time to sleep, he said. Some homeowners were refusing to rent space to Arabs, who are associated with Al Qaeda, for fear of their families’ being killed by the drones, he said.

The militants have abandoned all-terrain vehicles in favor of humdrum public transportation, one of the government supporters said.

The Arabs, who have always preferred to keep at a distance from the locals, have now gone further underground, resorting to hide-outs in tunnels dug into the mountainside in the Datta Khel area adjacent to Miram Shah, he said.

“Definitely Haqqani is under a lot of pressure,” the militant said. “He has lost commanders, a brother and other family members.”

...

The Pakistani military says it is already overstretched fighting militants on other fronts. But the militants in North Waziristan — the Haqqani network backed by Al Qaeda — are also longtime allies of Pakistan’s military and intelligence services. The group may yet prove useful for Pakistan to exert influence in postwar Afghanistan.

The army maintains a division of soldiers in North Waziristan, but, the militant said, the Pakistani soldiers do little to hinder militant operations, which, though under greater pressure from the drones, have by no means stopped.

Training sessions on how to make improvised explosive devices for use against American and NATO soldiers in Afghanistan continue, the militant said.

At one eight-day “crash course” in March, the militant said he learned how to mix explosive chemicals and how to load a car with explosives that would be used in suicide bombings.

...

Under American pressure, however, the Pakistani intelligence agency, Inter-Services Intelligence, has provided important intelligence for targets, American and Pakistani officials have said.

But increasingly the Americans appear to have developed their own sources, the militant said.

An influx of young Arabs turned up in North Waziristan recently, presumably to replace some of the older Arabs who had been killed by the drones. But many militants assumed that some of these Arabs were actually American agents, he said.

“Al Qaeda is very careful who they take among the new Arab recruits because they are informants for America,” the militant said.

Perhaps the most disturbing strike for the Haqqanis was the killing of Sirajuddin Haqqani’s younger brother, Mohammad, on Feb. 16.

One government supporter in the area said he witnessed the attack. “I was walking when I saw two drones, one going in one direction, one in another direction. I had a feeling they were preparing,” he said.

There were “two blasts” when a car was hit about 1,200 feet in front of him, he said.

...

The question of civilian deaths is an almost daily worry, all four men said. “Civilians are worried because there is hardly a house without a fighter,” the militant said.

Two of the government supporters said they knew of civilians, including friends, who had been killed by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, they said, they are prepared to sacrifice the civilians if it means North Waziristan will be rid of the militants, in particular the Arabs.

“On balance, the drones may have killed 100, 200, 500 civilians,” said one of the men. “If you look at the other guys, the Arabs and the kidnappings and the targeted killings, I would go for the drones.”

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 05 Apr 2010 08:54

sanjaykumar wrote:e.g, when the price of onions or potatoes in India shoots up, Pakistan typically has supply; and vice versa.

There is an enormous poorly managed agricultural reserve in India-any idea how many potatoes Bihar could grow? Further India needs intra-country transport links-to NE and Orissa and rural MP before pumping rupees into a land where the culture is terrorism.

OT, but prices shooting up is mostly due to (deliberate?) mismanagement - there was some news recently that Pawar exported sugar for a pittance and then re-imported it for an arm and a leg. Profits are white money onlee.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 05 Apr 2010 09:16

Altair wrote: "Would yo have forwarded the mail if the terrorists were Hindu and they were doing the same in Pakistan?"

Altair, here is a way you can turn the tables -

"If Indians were doing this in Pakistan, I would definitely be understanding and supportive of attempts by a Pakistani to publicize the issue"

thereby implicitly suggesting that your colleague is being unreasonable by not supporting your efforts to spread the word.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 05 Apr 2010 10:03

In America, it's starting to feel a bit like Pakistan

Just for laughs only. Goes to show the genteel image the yanquies continue to maintainof papistan.

Democracy worked in Washington, finally. But out here in the bushes where zealots abandon reason and spoil for action, America is starting to feel a little like Pakistan.

Later, I dropped by the Arizona Gun Show at the Pima County Fairgrounds, a slightly more genteel version of the open-air arms bazaar near Peshawar.

A pleasant woman named Marilyn Bernstein, who owns six or seven guns, explained her rationale: “Now more than ever with the government we have, I have to protect myself.”

A mere $3,795 buys a Barrett .50-caliber bipod-mounted 5-foot-long sniper rifle that can pierce a tank from a mile away. No license is required.

Whoa! I feverishly hope the pissawaris don't start copying this stuff. Or maybe they need to, to protect themselves from PA tanks......

Bills advancing fast in the state legislature would abolish permits even for concealed weapons and shield any guns made in Arizona from any nitpicking federal laws.

Conceal and carry is so old fashioned, not to mention downright cowardly. Paki weapons cannot be concealed even under the arabi ayabas or tent-burqas what to say of male shalwars. Besides, if you own a few AKs why would ya wanna conceal it now, eh?

The right to bear arms runs deep in the American psyche. In Wyatt Earp and Geronimo country, you don’t want to get too prissy about pistols, shotguns or rifles.

Neither would you in the land of the pure, after all.

Read it all. With some salt, I daresay.

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 05 Apr 2010 10:27

Another target killing in Quetta

Chief Manager SSGC {Southern Sui Gas Corporation?} killed in incident of target killing in Quetta

link

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 05 Apr 2010 10:29

Pakistan's Army Accused Of Extra - Judicial Killings

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/04/ ... ights.html