CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

[ASPuar]

Also there is no political will to crush such a movement. Such "chalta hai" attitude has cost lives of so many people. Every 4 months you will hear 10 or 30 jawans killed in ambushes but we Indians are now kind of okay with such casualty numbers. Its only now after so many deaths that every one is listening.

So sad. RIP CRPF guys.

Well, this is true. Chidambarams been playing a game of chess, committing forces, but not unleashing them to do what they must. He's been slowly escalating the ante. Unfortunately, the Maoists have utterly and completely called his bluff, and he's been left holding an empty bag. And much more unfortunately, its the CPO personnel on the ground that have borne the brunt of his folly.

This is why KPS Gill has chastised Chidambaram, in that he has failed to grasp that the naxals are not about to be cowed by a few chaps in camo, with a few machine guns.

Alas, until just a few years ago, the congress was talking about engaging the naxals, as a potential aid to their political program (like hired goondas, but on a larger scale). In the long line of former congress allies who ended up messing them up, the Naxals are also a product of our own polity in a way.

[Rahul M]

Doesn't Nishant have a SAR payload?

no E/O pod. searcher II has SAR as an option IIRC.

[Viv S]

Well, this is true. Chidambarams been playing a game of chess, committing forces, but not unleashing them to do what they must. He's been slowly escalating the ante. Unfortunately, the Maoists have utterly and completely called his bluff, and he's been left holding an empty bag. And much more unfortunately, its the CPO personnel on the ground that have borne the brunt of his folly.

How do you figure he's committed them but not unleashed them? As far as I can see he's done more than any HM in the past. Also, how does this absolve the mostly non-Congress state governments. Three of the six affected states are ruled by the BJP. Local state intelligence comes under their purview.

Alas, until just a few years ago, the congress was talking about engaging the naxals, as a potential aid to their political program (like hired goondas, but on a larger scale). In the long line of former congress allies who ended up messing them up, the Naxals are also a product of our own polity in a way.

To be fair I don't remember the NDA government cracking down on the Maoists either.

[ASPuar]

Sure, but the naxals werent regarded as potential allies by the BJP either. Im not being party-political, as I have no public stance on a preferred party. But use of dangerous people as vote forcing agents has long been a congress tactic, eg: Bhindranwale, et al.

Local state intel does come under the purview of the state agencies, but then does the state have the same resources as the center? (and naxalism is a central problem too, because they are spread across state jurisdictions, and do not come under the purview of any one state). IMO, Chattisgarh has taken more initiatives than any other state, barring AP, to control the naxals. Theyve hired Brig BK Ponwar, formerly Commander, CIJWS Vairengete, and appointed him IG CTJWS training. He is training Chattisgarh police commandos in anti naxal fighting tactics (with some success, I might add). What other naxal hit state has even bothered to raise a specific anti naxal force (with the exception of AP Greyhounds, which have also had success).

I consider that Mr. Chidambaram has committed the CPO's, in that he has ordered them to the naxal infested areas, and he has publicly stated that the goal is to contain the naxal menace, which is a good thing. However, where he has miscalculated, is by a) not providing enough force for the task at hand, and b ) assuming that the naxals will bow to mild pressure and show of force, that has been exerted so far. In the end, this show of force was largely a bluff, and this sort of attack has basically called it. Now, the real fighting has to start.

[mmasand]

Im not sure what you mean there are no paramedics on the ground? How dyou know?

Quite simple,throughout the length and breadth of our land there isn't a single paramedic school.No EMT/paramedic courses are offered at any health institute.

Gujarat govt will come out with the first EMS system in 2 years from now.

The least that can be done is provide the jawans with clot activators,'+'aid training and comms equipment.

[Amit J]

Reminds one of the Jaffna heliborne assault on an LTTE stronghold by the Indian Army. The troops were dropped in the middle of an ambush with disastrous results.

If i am not wrong even in this action the better trained special forces soldiers who were dropped there didnt take any causalities. May be it is time that the Special Forces are used covertly here to at least eliminate some heavy targets in the Naxal side. The Naxal's have upped their ante and every time they succeed they get bolder, every attack makes them stronger and they get more ammo and weapons from each attack. The Special forces would be required to tackle them as they can take on the dissimilar tactics of the Naxal's, also an experienced force is the requirement here. The CPO forces can also be part of the ops to enhance their training operational experience

[Brahmananda]

i totally agree the main push has to come from local state police forces, they have to recruit more local forces and raise elite units like Greyhounds to deal with these guys on a local basis. I think we shouldnt limit raising of such forces to just naxal hit areas, everystate police force must a have atleast 10000 or more well trained footsoldiers who have been trained extensively on local landscapes dedicated primariliy to anti factionist and rebel missions. Besides the maos a lot of states also have separatists, violent groups seeking political entry etc. maos are serious about spreading and cant have a central strategy while the maos are clearly using localised tactics. Centre should focus on tackling the spread, cut the funding, supply of arms, go after the big shots, the propagandists.

The maos have shown the ability to adapt which is why they still exist, an enemy that adapts quickly is a smart enemy and they have shown tight co-ordination in their ops. Prevention is a better than cure as one state clear maos from its regions, they can always move to others which have dense forests, lots of poor populations and tribals, which sadly is almost all of India, they can easily go in and start setting up local infra and recruitng and i think we must quickly begin the proactive developement of basic security infra all across the country especially in remote regions of the country. Which means more police stations, outposts, doubling of the forces across india, roads, ample local forces with adequate fire power.

So far the maos have sppread to a lot of areas and we must take swift action before they become a cancer than has spread across all of India. Moreover, these pests just to stay alive will collaborate with other factions and work together.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/Aer ... 6.JPG.html

wonder how effective would things like the BF-SR and BF-MR would be in tracking these insects in these dense jungle regions, would they be able to track them if we take the high ground and monitor them. If they are effective, i think we simply should order thousands of them and quickly monitor every square inch of our nation. These radars can also be integrated with thermal imagers for day and night survaillance and have proven very useful in border zones. Why cant we use them all across these regions. The SR or short range variant has an instumented range of 18km+ can pick up groups of people around 5km away. The MR or medium range version is even more power and its intrumented range is over 30km and can have even farther detection.

Also due to networking, a single ground station can network over 4 radars thus have a wider area coverage. I think it would be crucial in monitoring these insect movement, many such radars near inter state border zones and remote areas, dense jungle across the country will not only curb the spread of this disease but also keep an eye on infiltrators, smugllers, poachers, etc.

[Raja Bose]

Actually 6 Para Cdos died in the Jaffna incident while disembarking from the helicopters - it is true that they did not suffer any other casualties after that and actually carried all their dead with them. Sikh LI platoon did not go into cover and got wiped out.

In case of anti-naxal operations, SF is not the sole answer here - without intel infrastructure in place, SF will be sitting ducks too.

[ASPuar]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 769739.cms

Troopers scared to enter forest after Maoist ambush

IANS, Apr 7, 2010, 11.48am IST

RAIPUR: A day after 76 troopers were massacred in the worst ever Maoist attack, hundreds of para-military men and state police personnel assigned to track down the killers are scared to enter the jungles of Chhattisgarh Wednesday fearing a repeat of the 'bloody Tuesday' incident.

The shell-shocked police incumbent here have ordered nearly 40,000 policemen deployed in the restive Bastar region to retaliate.

But officials posted in the interiors of the region say: "The Tuesday attack has rattled the entire police force engaged in the anti-Maoist operation and they are now reluctant to enter the landmine protected jungle terrain".

"It's easy for everyone to dictate to us from New Delhi and Raipur sitting in air-conditioned chambers, but here the situation is completely hostile because Maoists rule the roost in jungles. The forces in Bastar now need urgent motivation," a police officer based in Dantewada said on phone.

Police officers posted in the sprawling 40,000 sq km Bastar terrain made up of five districts -- Bijapur, Narayanpur, Bastar, Kanker and Dantewada where the Maoists staged a bloodbath in the Chintalnar hilly area say -- "policemen are suffering high casualties because of an absolute lack of co-ordination between state forces and para-military men who are put in difficult terrains in Chhattisgarh".

"Despite all efforts at the police headquarters and at the state government level, the CRPF is not taking local police and special police officers (SPOs) along while entering the Maoists' den and are thus getting killed without a fight," noted a senior official here.

He remarked that CRPF men are all outsiders and know nothing about the difficult jungle terrain. They were reminded several times by officers at the police headquarters to take along at least the SPOs who are locals but the CRPF men neither followed this suggestion nor did they stick to the 48-point guerrilla warfare manuals.

[Amit J]

Actually 6 Para Cdos died in the Jaffna incident while disembarking from the helicopters - it is true that they did not suffer any other casualties after that and actually carried all their dead with them. Sikh LI platoon did not go into cover and got wiped out.

In case of anti-naxal operations, SF is not the sole answer here - without intel infrastructure in place, SF will be sitting ducks too.

See what i feel here is that there is good planning at the Naxal's end and that this planning is followed up brutally by the "foot" soldiers who are led by a few leaders, it is this leadership that need to be taken out. SF can be used for that - this also has double advantage in that the causalities on both sides can be brought down which will work for the govt's favour, and in the meanwhile the CPO forces need better intel and better equipment (esp BPJs). Satelite recon and thermal UAV systems will also add a lot of value. And the SF ops can be covert ones thereby not changing from the official policy of not using the Military

[mmasand]

NDTV reported an hour back that the ops were conducted without state police knowledge or assistance by a commander who had been appointed days back.Ironically it was a dominance/show of power op by him, who happens to be an ex Greyhound commander! Anyone with any pakka info on this?

[ASPuar]

http://www.ndtv.com/news/india/how-jawa ... -19359.php

Did the Naxals take advantage of poor planning?

NDTV Correspondent, Wednesday April 7, 2010, Raipur

A day after India's worst Naxal attack details are now emerging of how they managed to carry out their deadliest attack ever in Dantewada in Chhattisgarh killing 75 Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) jawans. (Read & watch: 75 security men killed by Naxals in Chhattisgarh)

Details are now emerging of how the ultras managed to carry out their deadliest attack ever in Dantewada in Chhattisgarh killing 75 CRPF jawans and a Chhattisgarh police constable. NDTV has learnt that the Naxals took advantage of poor planning.

Apparently the local police were in the dark about the details of the operation. It seems the newly appointed DIG, who is a top anti-Naxal specialist and a top greyhound commander, decided to launch an operation to get a feel of the area.

Let's now take a look at the details of what we know so far:

• Sources have told NDTV that it wasn't exactly a joint operation but a CRPF area domination
• Sources say the new CRPF DIG posted six days ago wanted to carry out an area domination operation to get a feel of the area
• But there was inadequate planning; local police were in the dark, even the local SP, DIG or DG didn't know of this
• Had it been a joint operation there would have been at least a company of police, not just one head constable (Pics: Bloody Timeline)

How it happened

The Naxals were in fact, tracking every movement of the CRPF jawans, here's a blow by blow account of how the Maoist guerrillas laid out a meticulous plan and trapped the jawans who were walking back after a 72 hour deep penetration operation in the dense jungles in Dantewada:

• Naxals ambushed jawans and fired from a rocky outcrop.
• It seems that the CRPF company was trapped in the rocky area and Naxals fired indiscriminately from automatic guns, multiple blasts were reported during the ambush.
• The escape route was heavily mined and Naxals triggered the landmines and IEDs just as the jawans were escaping

Chidambaram in Chhattisgarh

A police ceremony was held in Jagdalpur to pay homage to the the jawans. Union Home Minister P Chidambaram who flew to Chhattisgarh on Wednesday morning for a spot assessment, was at the ceremony to pay his respects. He was accompanied by Chief Minister Raman Singh. The bodies were kept in coffins draped with the national tricolour.

Sources say the CM of Chhattisgarh and Chidambaram took the decision to call it a joint operation after speaking with last night.


Honouring the jawans

There was a somber scene at jagdalpur, as coffins were marked out with names of jawans and the places they belong to. The funerals will follow the state honour at Jagdalpur.

Central and state government leaders today paid their last respects to the security force personnel killed in the deadliest Naxal attack in the country.

The deadliest attack yet by a Naxal group took place on early Tuesday morning in the jungles bordering Chhattisgarh and Andhra Pradesh and at least, 1000 Maoists hiding in the forest ambushed a group of 82 jawans killing 76 and injuring 7.

The question everyone's asking, how could such a massacre happen at all? Was it a failure of intelligence, preparation or just training?

When NDTV asked the DGP of West Bengal Bhupinder Singh about whether the West Bengal police is really equipped to handle an attack of this scale, he said: "The lesson we have to tell our boys over and over again is don't let your guard down, don't think the worst is over." (Watch: Don't think the worst is over: Bengal DGP)

Following the blood bath, Naxal affected states have been put on high alert.

[Amit J]

Actually 6 Para Cdos died in the Jaffna incident while disembarking from the helicopters - it is true that they did not suffer any other casualties after that and actually carried all their dead with them. Sikh LI platoon did not go into cover and got wiped out.

In case of anti-naxal operations, SF is not the sole answer here - without intel infrastructure in place, SF will be sitting ducks too.

See what i feel here is that there is good planning at the Naxal's end and that this planning is followed up brutally by the "foot" soldiers who are led by a few leaders, it is this leadership that need to be taken out. SF can be used for that - this also has double advantage in that the causalities on both sides can be brought down which will work for the govt's favour, and in the meanwhile the CPO forces need better intel and better equipment (esp BPJs). Satelite recon and thermal UAV systems will also add a lot of value. And the SF ops can be covert ones thereby not changing from the official policy of not using the Military

Edit: Also a notable incident of the planning capabilities of the Naxal's is the killing of a lot of grey hounds in AP who were traveling in a boat. They are good at trapping the boys even more reason some of their military wing leader's at the field commander level and upwards to be taken out for which SF can be used

[mmasand]

^^ thanks...i couldn't seem to find it on the web..Only to hunt down his name,not that we can entirely blame him,although he will be the punchbag and get transferred in days to come.

[ASPuar]

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/hyderaba ... ration-161

Prabhat faces heat for botched operation

April 7th, 2010
DC Correspondent

Hyderabad, April 6: The Central Reserve Police Force DIG, Mr Nalin Prabahat, IPS, is now under the scanner for sending his men for a combing operation in a Naxal stronghold of Chhattisgarh without coordinating with the local police.

Mr Prabhat, who belongs to the Andhra Pradesh Cadre of the Indian Police Service, joined his new post only six days ago.

Top sources said that Chhattisgarh police had informed the ministry of home affairs that they were unaware of the movements of CRPF men in their locality.

“Prabhat is now blamed for his decision to send troops based at Chintalnar camp to Tadimetla for a 72-hour operation without informing the Chhattisgarh police,” said a senior officer. “There is an attempt to pass the buck though this is not fair as he took over only six days ago.”

The CRPF men who died in Dantewada did not belong to CoBRA (Commando Battalion for Resolute Action) units familiar with guerilla warfare and failed to anticipate or thwart the surprise attack by Naxals.

“They were actually trained for law and order duties,” said the officer. “If they were CoBRAs there would have been good retaliation,” the senior officer added.

In Andhra Pradesh, the CRPF is used only for protection of police camps and stations, and area domination. “They have never been used for combing,” said the senior cop. “But in Chhattisgarh, the CRPF has operational freedom.”

[mmasand]

Now I really didn't think it was Nalin! He is a hero in J&K after huning down the pigs during the attack on the CRPF checkpost in Lal Chowk a few months back.He also led the operation from the forefront during the Hotel Punjab seize.

[D Roy]

Given that these chaps attack in droves of 300 + , there is a huge opportunity for the security forces to take them out quickly.

Proper C4ISR and the concomitant will should do the job.

[Viv S]

Sure, but the naxals werent regarded as potential allies by the BJP either. Im not being party-political, as I have no public stance on a preferred party. But use of dangerous people as vote forcing agents has long been a congress tactic, eg: Bhindranwale, et al.

Okay but that's ancient history now. The govt. been publicly locking horns with the commies and HR dancing troupe over the issue. I believe they're on right side today.

Local state intel does come under the purview of the state agencies, but then does the state have the same resources as the center? (and naxalism is a central problem too, because they are spread across state jurisdictions, and do not come under the purview of any one state). IMO, Chattisgarh has taken more initiatives than any other state, barring AP, to control the naxals. Theyve hired Brig BK Ponwar, formerly Commander, CIJWS Vairengete, and appointed him IG CTJWS training. He is training Chattisgarh police commandos in anti naxal fighting tactics (with some success, I might add). What other naxal hit state has even bothered to raise a specific anti naxal force (with the exception of AP Greyhounds, which have also had success).

True, but then P.C. has had strong support cutting across party lines, Raman Singh in particular in this case. He formulates broader policy and he's made a break with the previous governments who left the Naxals for the state govts. to manage.

I consider that Mr. Chidambaram has committed the CPO's, in that he has ordered them to the naxal infested areas, and he has publicly stated that the goal is to contain the naxal menace, which is a good thing. However, where he has miscalculated, is by a) not providing enough force for the task at hand, and b ) assuming that the naxals will bow to mild pressure and show of force, that has been exerted so far. In the end, this show of force was largely a bluff, and this sort of attack has basically called it. Now, the real fighting has to start.

Again he faces certain limitations. He cannot micromanage operations; that part has to be delegated to people with the appropriate background. CRPF reserves at the centre have been pared to the bone. Both the army and paramilitary forces are stretched across various theatres. All the same, the Maoists have lost ground in places like West Bengal. This isn't a short term deployment. It'll still be years before the Maoist menace ends. This isn't the first time the security forces have taken heavy casualties and its not going to be the last time. This govt. appears to be in it for the long haul, unlike previous administrations who took the easy way out and let the Maoists be.

Specifically with regard to casualties, it would be prudent to remember that the IA took murderous losses in J&K and Sri Lanka before it adapted and the situation stabilized. Same goes for Punjab during the militancy years.

[ASPuar]

The will of the Indian people is being tested. Will we regard this as a total war, or will we take it as just another of the myriad internal security insurgencies, which fester and sap the will of the nation?

If the former, are we ready to use overwhelming force, against, what are, after all, our own citizens, albeit engaging in criminal activity?

Will we recognise, that the system against which they have rebelled, is indeed flawed, corrupt, and decaying and needs to change, but not in the way that these people are changing it? We do need police that is humane and responsive, courts that deliver justice, administration which responds to the needs of the people and is not self serving.. but not through the Maoists!

With what will we replace the Maoists? Life as usual? Same old bribe demanding army of public servants, backed by bullying police, who deliver no services in return? Or a new liberal democratic order, based on the freedom and inviolable rights of the individual citizen, where the people run their own affairs, and their lives are not interfered in by an overbearing govt?

What, after all, is at the root of any insurgency? Dissatisfaction with the state of affairs. And our government is nothing, if not aces at breeding dissatisfaction amongst the people, by its treatment of them, as little more than a resource to be drawn upon, by the powerful to exploit the weak. Removing an insurgency is important, but just as important is removing the dissatisfaction, and the disenfranchisement and anger. When the government starts to interfere with the people's right to life and livelihood, through a convoluted and frightening mire of regulations, laws and rules known only to the administrators, and the people have no democratic way of changing things (because no matter whom you elect, the essential soul of the state, the system inherited from the British, will never change) the people will, at some point or other, retaliate. Its happened in Punjab, Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya, Tamil Nadu, and many other places. The people are sick of the colonial style of our government.

The structure of the Republic needs to change. These insurgencies are merely a symptom. We need to decide what the reform that we need is. And we need to wipe out those, who would impose their own, misguided reforms on us, through the gun.

[Nayak]

Will we recognise, that the system against which they have rebelled, is indeed flawed, corrupt, and decaying and needs to change, but not in the way that these people are changing it? We do need police that is humane and responsive, courts that deliver justice, administration which responds to the needs of the people and is not self serving.. but not through the Maoists!

With what will we replace the Maoists? Life as usual? Same old bribe demanding army of public servants, backed by bullying police, who deliver no services in return? Or a new liberal democratic order, based on the freedom and inviolable rights of the individual citizen, where the people run their own affairs, and their lives are not interfered in by an overbearing govt?

What, after all, is at the root of any insurgency? Dissatisfaction with the state of affairs. And our government is nothing, if not aces at breeding dissatisfaction amongst the people, by its treatment of them, as little more than a resource to be drawn upon, by the powerful to exploit the weak. Removing an insurgency is important, but just as important is removing the dissatisfaction, and the disenfranchisement and anger. When the government starts to interfere with the people's right to life and livelihood, through a convoluted and frightening mire of regulations, laws and rules known only to the administrators, and the people have no democratic way of changing things (because no matter whom you elect, the essential soul of the state, the system inherited from the British, will never change) the people will, at some point or other, retaliate. Its happened in Punjab, Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya, Tamil Nadu, and many other places. The people are sick of the colonial style of our government.

The structure of the Republic needs to change. These insurgencies are merely a symptom. We need to decide what the reform that we need is. And we need to wipe out those, who would impose their own, misguided reforms on us, through the gun.

If ever there was a rating system on BRF, this post by ASPuar-sir would get the highest. Sitting in cities, working from our A/C cooled cabins, commenting on the state of affairs is all good, but the ground reality is different.

Let us not blame China or US here, there is a general ground swell of dissatisfaction and opposition towards the state/central administration and any hostile country with a little bit of common-sense will tap into it.

[Viv S]

If ever there was a rating system on BRF, this post by ASPuar-sir would get the highest. Sitting in cities, working from our A/C cooled cabins, commenting on the state of affairs is all good, but the ground reality is different.

Let us not blame China or US here, there is a general ground swell of dissatisfaction and opposition towards the state/central administration and any hostile country with a little bit of common-sense will tap into it.

All of what he said was true but IMO things have progressively improved in recent years. In the past, we've faced out militancies in Punjab, J&K, NE as well as murmurs of secessions in places like Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu without the country's territorial integrity or sovereignty being compromised. Today, the Punjab militancy is dead, the insurgencies in J&K and NE are a record low ebb and regional chauvinism is by and large restricted to the IPL.With one billion inhabiting the same country, issues are inevitable but the trend over recent years is heartening. It may seem like the Maoists have the upper hand, but (IMHO again) this is the beginning of their end now that the centre has decided to crack down on them. And except for sections of the Left and a few assorted parties, this motion has support from most of the political spectrum as well as the public.

[Nihat]

Maybe we could take all debate on ideology of Naxals to the "Red Menace" thread. Let this one be operation specific.

[ASPuar]

All of what he said was true but IMO things have progressively improved in recent years. In the past, we've faced out militancies in Punjab, J&K, NE as well as murmurs of secessions in places like Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu without the country's territorial integrity or sovereignty being compromised. Today, the Punjab militancy is dead, the insurgencies in J&K and NE are a record low ebb and regional chauvinism is by and large restricted to the IPL. It may seem like the Maoists have the upper hand, but (IMHO again) this is the beginning of their end now that the centre has decided to crack down on them. And except for sections of the Left and a few assorted parties, this motion has support from most of the political spectrum as well as the public.

I dont think that the Maoists have the upper hand. With firm and resolute action, I think they will be smashed. But we must consider WHY there is insurgency in the first place? It is not because of parochialism, in the case of the Maoists. The naxals are exploiting the basic anger of the people, against an outdated and colonial form of government, which is not representative, and which does mistreat its citizens.

This form of incitement can be exported to most parts of the country, as the system itself is rotten. Those who are proud to call themselves even today, as the inheritors of the legacy of the Steel Frame of the British Empire, know full well, that that steel frame was a cage for the people of India. And they are still paying dearly to keep that cage intact.

So, the question is not "will the naxals be crushed", but when, and what happens after that? With what do we replace all the things that the naxals have promised the people? Freedom to till their land without interference, a police system which is of the people, not against it, courts which function, justice, liberty, and equality? (Note that the Maoists dont provide this either, but for now, with judicious use of terror theyve kept everyone quiet!). We need to implement a plan by which we can fix all these things, once we've got rid of the maoists.

But if you want to discuss more on this, we can move to the Red Menace forum.

[ASPuar]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 770130.cms

There is no 'Operation Green Hunt': Chidambaram
IANS, Apr 7, 2010, 01.31pm IST

RAIPUR: Home minister P Chidambaram on Wednesday insisted that there was no "Operation Green Hunt" against Maoists -- as has been widely reported. "There is no Operation Green Hunt," Chidambaram told reporters.

Chhattisgarh police officials say they had coined the term for one successful drive against the Communist Party of India-Maoist (CPI-Maoist) in the state.

But former Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) director general A.S. Gill told IANS it was wrong to call the current campaign against the Maoists by the same name.

"It is a media creation and continues till date," Gill said.

Chidambaram's clarification came a day after Maoist guerrillas massacred 76 security personnel in Chhattisgarh Tuesday in the worst attack since the Maoist movement erupted over four decades ago.

Fine, but there is an operation against the Maoists, and it should be given a definite shape, and definable objectives, which the public should be informed of, to prevent panic.

[cbelwal]

India is a diverse country with 40% of the people living below the poverty line. Goto any slum in a city and see the poverty and the criminal deprivation there. Look at the daily wage laborers or countless other poor people who toil every hard, night and day to make a living. The tribals are exploited but so are countless other people in India.

It will take time for India to get over centuries of exploitation and deprivation. India is still a fledgling democray, how can it solve all the problems overnight ? If each and every poor and deprived person of India decides to take up weapons will they overnight become rich ?

The Maoists want to overthrow the government ... then what ? Kisenji becomes prime minister and monsoons will rain 1000 rupee notes? Exploitation ends and India becomes an eternal utopia ?

I think calling such people 'citizens' of India is incorrect. Citizens are people who abide by the constitution, the moment they dont abide by the laws of the consitution they 'loose' their right to be citizens. A clear distinction has to be made that Maoists are not Indian citizens and they want to destroy everything what law abiding and hard working poor and deprived citizens of the India have toiled for over the past 63 years.

All this talk of deprivation and corruption is hogwash intended to show Maoists as the innocent victims.

If the former, are we ready to use overwhelming force, against, what are, after all, our own citizens, albeit engaging in criminal activity?

Will we recognise, that the system against which they have rebelled, is indeed flawed, corrupt, and decaying and needs to change, but not in the way that these people are changing it? We do need police that is humane and responsive, courts that deliver justice, administration which responds to the needs of the people and is not self serving.. but not through the Maoists!

[atreya]

One has to look at a bit of history at the IPKF Ops in Sri Lanka. Many people are not aware but Rajiv Gandhi had instructed the Army that under no circumstances gunships could to be used. Logic: Colletral damage. Officers who have served there will tell you how handicapped they were in the absense of close air support specially when attacking LTTE strongholds. When the IPKF casualty rate started rising the government under pressure , allowed gunships to be brought in . They were used with disasterous effects on the LTTE. One has to look at the IPKF casualty rate before and after the Hinds were introduced. If only the Congress government was less idealistic, the IPKF casualty rate would not have been as high.

I agree with cbelwal. I would like to point out that while there are a lots of differences between LTTE and Maoists, there are many similarities too. The two primary similarities I have thought of are:
1) They are both rooted in the angst of an ignored section of society- Lankan Tamils in case of LTTE and poor tribals and farmers in case of Naxalites. Therefore, whatever one says, they DO have a grievance. Though that grievance does NOT justify violence of any kind. So, LTTE and Maoists need to be dealt with firmly, while the innocents of that community are pacified and discouraged from joining their respective movements.
2) They both are/were based in midst of citizens of the country. So that rules out a full fledged war, using artillery, planes etc. However, like cbelwal points out, helicopter gunships HAVE to be used. The whole Naxalite operation may turn into something like the IPKF operations if the Govt. doesn't sit up and take notice.
What distresses me is the fact that the Govt. needs more blood on its hands before it calls in helicopters. And when it finally does (which it most probably, going by the current scenario and past experience of IPKF), it'll be regretting not doing that before (i.e. now).

[Rahul M]

this is NOT the thread for discussing the social angle of this issue. more than one person has pointed that out. please use the red menace thread in strat.

[atreya]

this is NOT the thread for discussing the social angle of this issue. more than one person has pointed that out. please use the red menace thread in strat.

Extremely sorry. I never realized that. Please ignore point 1 of my post. Point 2 is still relevant. Should I edit it?

[Rahul M]

that was not for you alone.
and why ask me ? you know which is relevant and which is not.
cheers !

[Carl_T]

I think PV Naik's comment on not using airpower to avoid collateral damage is poorly reasoned. Airpower doesn't necessarily mean carpet-bombing villages, but the ground forces should be given the option to call in an airstrike or helicopter support. It will probably reduce collateral damage if we have troops on the ground actively determining and pinpointing enemy targets. I think these patrols should have some combat controller-type soldiers who can do that.

We could have UAVs constantly flying over the forest monitoring for an ambush. Don't know how realistic that is.

[Samay]

Although he is speaking, but these look like some politician's words .

[sunny y]

Anti Naxal Policy needs to be reviewed

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/apr/ ... wed-pm.htm

"I think, the policy has to be reviewed practically from time to time, learning from experience. (But) we are too close to the event to take a view that the existing policy needs to be modified," he told mediapersons when asked whether the government was planning to revisit the anti-Naxal strategy.

Asked whether use of air-power was being considered, Singh said, "All these options are kept open and continuously reviewed. As of now, we have not taken any view in this direction."

Glad to see that the option of using air power is at least open

[Pranay]

An observation...

Was watching the scene on NDTV, where a reporter was reporting from the encounter site, i guess he was standing in the crater created by the IED that blew up the MPV.

As the camera was panning around the site - one got a 180 degree view of the encounter site - there were no hills in sight!!

The reports mentioned that the CRPF party was surrounded on all four sides and fired upon from nearby hills by upto 1000 maoists - where were the hills, or any elevated ground for that matter??

Also, posted this question in the Red Menace thread - while the postmortem on this massacre commences, any word of any Maoist casualties in this encounter??

[Surya]

pranay

I would notbe surprised if it was not hilly and even 1000 maoists is probably an exaggeration.

A lot of mistakes were probably made and this is one way to justify or explain.

[Brahmananda]

pranay saw the same report as well and the mpv blown up was on its way to pick up the dead and injured, the real site of massacre would be a bit further.

[Singha]

initial reports claimed the encounter was 1 hr. but a survivor who is in ICU spoke to TV camera and said it was 7 hrs - a long siege in which one by one the unit was gunned down.

- he said it was dark when it started (must have meant dawn)
- the unit could not take a good defensive position
- those who survived the initial carnage took shelter in fields and tried to
retain some cohesion
- the survivors all pretended to be dead among the bodies as the maoists
hurriedly checked the victims and looted the arms

supposedly just 4 km from camp, but a IED and ambush party knocked out the vehicle
of relief party and held them at bay.

quite clearly a pearl harbour kind of day for our nation. need to think deeply about
[a] what does the indian public want?
what can the govt do?

first the goals must be clear and mind free of conflicting ideas. after that finding the
engineering solns is easier.

[Paul]

When ACM says air power should not be applied, he meant IAF should not be brought into use at this stage....and he is right. People need to get a grip and understand the level of force that needs to be applied.

This is not Kargil for heaven's sake.

If UAVs or Helis are to be used, they can use Druvs or MI-17s piloted by BSF or CRPF peronnel, no need to bring the IAF into play, at least for now.

[Singha]

if stern measures are not taken, I think the next step up the ladder would be a strike on a major and media visible town like ranchi, jamshedpur, kakinada, rajamundry, vijaywada, raipur ....a lot of places are within reach.

what do you do if 300 armed people turn up in middle of night in trucks hidden under tarpaulins
and boxes of ammo/grenades and automatic weapons? driving at 40kmph at dusk, they could
cover 240km by midnight or 360km by 3am when any security detail would be dull and tired.

if one draws a circle of radius 360km from their stronghold 'liberated' areas, a lot of juicy
targets come in radar. cities have many roads coming in and lots of soft and visible targets
of all types. cities are the low hanging fruit compared to taking on protected police camps.

--
we need to bring into play whoever has the handle on humint and ELINT/IMINT. if that
means a cell of raw / IN / ARC has to work on the problem somewhere I say so be it.
if that means localized hits on maoist leaders can only be done discreetly my army-SF,
there is no other option.

we are all out of soft options/"saving face" now.

if A-list delta force/seals could be tasked to snatch serbian war criminals or delta forced
dropped on scud hunting missions it was driven by political imperatives not just technical
situation.

[Carl_T]

We are talking about helicopter or UAV support, what difference does it make who flies the thing whether they are BSF or IAF or CRPF?

[Craig Alpert]

Govt may have to use air power against Naxals: Chidambaram

NEW DELHI/JAGDALPUR: A day after Maoists massacred 76 security personnel in a bloody ambush, home minister P Chidambaram paid homage to the dead and said there was need to "stay calm and hold nerves" in taking on ultras who he said saw the state as an "enemy" and the conflict, a "war".

In a significant departure, Chidambaram said while the government had refrained from using air power against Maoists, the situation could change. "At present there is no mandate to use the air force or any aircraft. But, if necessary, we will have to revisit the mandate to make some changes."

The use of air power, which in the context of Maoists means choppers, has been limited to rescue and reinforcement missions. Perhaps mindful of the negative connotations over possible use of air force in offensive operations, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, chose his words carefully when asked about Chidambaram's statement.

"I think policy has to be reviewed practically from time to time, learning from experience. (But) we are too close to the event to take a view that existing policy needs to be modified," he told reporters on the sidelines of the Padma award function at Rashtrapati Bhawan on Wednesday. The PM pointed out that "all these options are kept open and continuously reviewed... As of now, we have not taken any view in this direction."
................