The Trash Thread in the Trash Can (Use 4545 to Merge Posts)

[svinayak]

Does it matter to me. Did I cause you any problem.
Tell that to the admin and answer his questions. Make sure you have a valid reason to complain and make sure the admins are satisfied.

Acharya-ji, Peace. Shanti.

I thought that Since you felt that it is appropriate to assert that my whining was deliberate, I thought that it would be appropriate for me to parody and mock your posting style. You are a conspiracy theorist, I am a joker. So I also assumed that you would not be offended by the parody, just as I was not offended when you hinted at some dark conspiracy about my post.

I assumed reciprocity. Sorry.

It was nothing until one of the admin warned me when there was no breach of forum rules. So I found your post and hence some queries. Keep it cool and make sure any playful post dont reach such that one of the party gets warned.

[Nayak]

Flamingos are gay, scientists have proved it. This is a homo flamingo, no doubt about it.

Of course. See how he's flamboyantly wearing pink!

Racist alert, what do you mean by he ? It could be a she or even a it like majority of Pakis. You sir are not qualified to comment on this particular flamingo. For all you know it could be Janine Lindemulder of Flamingos.

Check up on google for information on 'strap on janine'.

[archan]

While I am going to do a major post-delete operation in this thread (including some of my own posts ) but let me make this clear. Acharya, you seem to be under an impression that I warned you because Anujan reported that post of yours - which was nonsensical to everyone except you (and maybe your intended reader, ramana). It is not true. I did not even see Anujan's references in nukkad or here until after I had warned you. Now on to why I warned you...
You have politely and not-so-politely been told many times by admins to stop posting one-half liners, one-quarter liners, one worded posts, links without titles or description etc. You seem to display an attitude of "I am too busy to type, so I will just leave a blind link in there". Also, you said this is an open forum - right, and if you want to send a message in a code language to another person (which only they will be able to discern) isn't it impolite to post it in a public forum and leave others wondering what the heck it means?
I don't know if you remember me telling you that if you are too busy to post properly, please don't post. I have told you earlier as well that if you continue doing this, you will get warned. Now about you breaking or not breaking forum rules, well, not listening to repeated moderator requests entitles you for a warning. I do agree that those kinds of posts of yours have been tolerated here for many years, but I have also stated that I do not wish to see that tradition continue anymore. Imagine the state of the forum if even a fee users started posting in that manner. They would then say that "hey, if Acharya is allowed to do that, why correct me?".
In fact, if I had not warned you, you wouldn't have even noticed it was an issue.
Does this mean that any member who posts in a way deemed unacceptable by an admin will get warned from now on? no. We prefer to nudge them first and when they don't listen is when we have to use the warning system.
Things change on BRF, even senior members, gurus and current/ex mods can get banned. This was a mere warning. However I must remind you that you have two in your account as of now.
It really does not take that much of an effort to be 'just another member' who never gets into trouble. Probably over 95% members do that with ease.

[svinayak]

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/Guidelines.html
There is nothing which I have done violates the forum guidelines. Please let me know about it.
Now same policy is being used by many posters in BRF.
Anything regarding "You seem to display an attitude" is your interpretations. It has nothing to with me. I am admin in many forums and have started many forums for the last decade or so. So I have some experience with it.

[archan]

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/Guidelines.html
There is nothing which I have done violates the forum guidelines. Please let me know about it.
Now same policy is being used by many posters in BRF.
Anything regarding "You seem to display an attitude" is your interpretations. It has nothing to with me. I am admin in many forums and have started many forums for the last decade or so. So I have some experience with it.

Who said you can only be warned for violations of a stated forum policy? anyway, I have said enough on this matter.

[Muppalla]

It is becoming difficult to know the guys in new burqa. Finally I came to know who is Viswamitra after serching thru posts

[RamaY]

Made that choice in a weak moment (oka balaheena kshanam lo tappu jarigipoyindi). Rahul-Mullah will kill me if I want to revert it.

Now, I am depressed

[SwamyG]

oka balaheena kshanam lo tappu jarigipoyindi.

That is characteristic of Viswamitra, no

[Muppalla]

oka balaheena kshanam lo tappu jarigipoyindi.

That is characteristic of Viswamitra, no

Good one.

[RamaY]

Guys, don't laugh at "precious".... 1000 stons upon you

Legend is that, that "galti se mistake" resulted in Bharata...

[SwamyG]

Yup, I was going to point out to Shakuntalam for your depression.

[negi]

SwamyG I did not get the context , can you elaborate ?
Is this related to Urvashi incident ?

[SwamyG]

negi: taking this conversation to nukkad. I don't want hellphyr.

[Viv S]

India may miss 5-yr target for power generation: Govt

From defence acquisitions to economic targets, from population control to gareebi hatao , GoI is so apt in missing targets . Why the hell they have any target in place if it has to miss onlee

Take heart.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/201 ... 190100.htm

[RoyG]

Brahmananda = RameshC = Keizer? lol

[Samay]

Chatted with my Chaddi buddy.

New Star sighting system is on the works.

thats very old tech ,easily available in certain countries,
pakistan can easily counter that or even stop our star navigation with its jinn takenology
we should R&D more on using jinn technology against pakistan and unkil

[PratikDas]

Chatted with my Chaddi buddy.

New Star sighting system is on the works.

thats very old tech ,easily available in certain countries,
pakistan can easily counter that or even stop our star navigation with its jinn takenology
we should R&D more on using jinn technology against pakistan and unkil

Why do you say all this needlessly?

Do you have any details at all about the Indian star sighting system? Do you have some idea about how it might be different to American or Russian systems?

[Rupesh]

Why not mend fences with Russia?

Their close military and economic ties and Indian aggressive posture increased insecurity for a weaker Pakistan. This compelled Pakistan to rely on the US protection and military assistance and led it into joining the American led defence pacts — Seato and Cento, which essentially served western interests of containment of communist Russia and China.

That Pakistan got in the bargain only a false sense of security is another matter. When Pakistan invoked the Mutual Defence Treaty between Pakistan and the US seeking intervention on Pakistan’s behalf after India’s 1965 attack across the international border, the US State Department said it was unable to find the file of such a treaty.

Today’s international political and geopolitical landscape is fundamentally different from that of the second half of the 20th century. Both Russia — that rose on the ashes of the Soviet Union, and Pakistan — that struggles to overcome threats to its security, face new realities, global, regional and domestic. It is, therefore, time for both of them to overlook the past, mend fences and work together for a better future.

now an == with Russia

Pakistan was the first state to recognise Russia as the successor of the USSR.

Pakistanis need to see Russia in a positive light. Negative perceptions can change with increased people-to-people contacts, cultural and academic exchanges and scholarships and student exchange programmes (i thought students from Chechnya were already being trained by pakis..how many more do they need) that need to be facilitated.

[Rahul M]

just imagine the hulabaloo and namecalling if this was a DRDO project, people would have been shouting from their rooftops about how DRDO scientists live in the lap of luxury and are traitors to the nation. but when the russians dupe us it's almost considered a privilege.

Or if this was American episode. The Indian Naval Officer being probed, Price Increase, and Lapse of Time. Americans would be roasted, but about Russians not even a pipsqueak.

well I wasn't quite talking of the forum, here we have almost equal representation of those camps.

[putnanja]

Or if this was American episode. The Indian Naval Officer being probed, Price Increase, and Lapse of Time. Americans would be roasted, but about Russians not even a pipsqueak.

I am sure as a lurker for few years, you would have seen the huge debate when gorshkov was delayed the last time. And if you go over to the armour thread, you will also see T-90 being roasted. To claim that everthing russian is passed over on the forum is intellectual dishonesty to incite flame wars.

[Kavu]

Or if this was American episode. The Indian Naval Officer being probed, Price Increase, and Lapse of Time. Americans would be roasted, but about Russians not even a pipsqueak.

I am sure as a lurker for few years, you would have seen the huge debate when gorshkov was delayed the last time. And if you go over to the armour thread, you will also see T-90 being roasted. To claim that everthing russian is passed over on the forum is intellectual dishonesty to incite flame wars.

That is after what, Killing of Arjun and 7 years delay in Gorshkov along with 1.35 billion price increase, Russians do have a huge leeway in this forum, what is the American equivalent. Where is the cry of Russian arms sales to china? Indira Gandhi being asked to stop the attack on West Pakistan, was a Russian request.
Russians have it easy here and make no doubt it even though most of the forumers make their living out of the American economy.

Most members over here would know me, if I post my usual handle in other forums. I can sense your sarcasm and poke about my statement of being a lurker for years. I was, you can take it for what it is worth, far before Arun_S took his pages and went away and before JCage went. But it is true, that unlike you I do have a life off the internet and therefore dont remember most things that happened here.

[putnanja]

That is after what, Killing of Arjun and 7 years delay in Gorshkov along with 1.35 billion price increase, Russians do have a huge leeway in this forum, what is the American equivalent. Where is the cry of Russian arms sales to china? Indira Gandhi being asked to stop the attack on West Pakistan, was a Russian request.
Russians have it easy here and make no doubt it even though most of the forumers make their living out of the American economy.

Most members over here would know me, if I post my usual handle in other forums. I can sense your sarcasm and poke about my statement of being a lurker for years. I was, you can take it for what it is worth, far before Arun_S took his pages and went away and before JCage went. But it is true, that unlike you I do have a life off the internet and therefore dont remember most things that happened here.

1. No one is crying out US arm sales to pakis ,only freebies
2. As you yourself admit, you don't remember most things that happened here. So claiming that most of the forumites are pro-Russia is based on your limited and selective reading of the forum. So your contention is automatically wrong, by your own admission.
3. You should also remember that the Russian submarine was following the USS Enterprise into the BoB. Please read up more before making one off statements.
4. People may be living off US economy, but no one is advocating cutting all ties with US. They in fact encourage more US-India trade, but only limit the defence purchases due to US sanctions and their fickle policies that change with each president.
5. Whether people know you from your handle or not doesn't matter to many forumites. What matters is your arguments and facts. Like you yourself mentioned, compared to us losers, you have a life off the internet. So reading here once in a blue moon and making assumptions out of that limited reading makes you post your invalid assumptions that people here challenge. So you resort to calling majority Indians as foolish. I don't know if you include yourself into it or not
6. Russia has helped India in many defence and space projects and are continuing to do it in projects like Arihant etc. Similarly the french too weren't against India after the 1998 tests. Given the fact that even recently, Admiral Mullen, the joint CoS of US forces was calling for putting more pressure on India to resolve disputes with Pakistan, giving more leverage to US is foolish.

[Kavu]

1. No one is crying out US arm sales to pakis ,only freebies

US freebies, have strings, More Pakistan takes the better. Also, Purchased and copied arms(which Russia doesnt do anything about) kills as much as Freebies.

2. As you yourself admit, you don't remember most things that happened here. So claiming that most of the forumites are pro-Russia is based on your limited and selective reading of the forum. So your contention is automatically wrong, by your own admission.

3. You should also remember that the Russian submarine was following the USS Enterprise into the BoB. Please read up more before making one off statements.

For their own benefit not ours, There is more , take 1965. IF they are our friends, why stop at E.Pak

4. People may be living off US economy, but no one is advocating cutting all ties with US. They in fact encourage more US-India trade, but only limit the defence purchases due to US sanctions and their fickle policies that change with each president

Quite selective isnt it
.

5. Whether people know you from your handle or not doesn't matter to many forumites. What matters is your arguments and facts. Like you yourself mentioned, compared to us losers, you have a life off the internet. So reading here once in a blue moon and making assumptions out of that limited reading makes you post your invalid assumptions that people here challenge. So you resort to calling majority Indians as foolish. I don't know if you include yourself into it or not

There is nothing to assume huge leeway is given to Russia, the amount damage Russians have done to Indian Defense Industries to keep their market as well as done to the Indian Armed Forces capability through faulty products, delays, price increases, and not to mention corrupt practices to sell T-90 and Gorshkov and various others down the Indian Tax Payers throat is appalling all the while arming China to the teeth., It is quite evident about which tune this forums sings, I wouldnt say the about the Forum admins though. Therefore it must be a reflective of the Indian Populace, if that is the case, yes they are foolish, most of'em.

6. Russia has helped India in many defence and space projects and are continuing to do it in projects like Arihant etc. Similarly the french too weren't against India after the 1998 tests. Given the fact that even recently, Admiral Mullen, the joint CoS of US forces was calling for putting more pressure on India to resolve disputes with Pakistan, giving more leverage to US is foolish.

Russia has done all it has, all for a price. Nothing more, and also since we keep a blind eye to China. Others dont, since they dont need our money. While Russians do.

[Indranil]

Most members over here would know me, if I post my usual handle in other forums. I can sense your sarcasm and poke about my statement of being a lurker for years. I was, you can take it for what it is worth, far before Arun_S took his pages and went away and before JCage went. But it is true, that unlike you I do have a life off the internet and therefore dont remember most things that happened here.

Kavu, please cool down. Let us all put down points. Those who want to bite it, will bite it. Those who don't, won't. What is the point insinuating each other. Doesn't help any of us!

That being said, I agree with Kavu in a few things. We certainly give a leeway to some countries while deals with other countries are pitched as tyranny, just at the mention of the country's name! Just my thoughts!

[putnanja]

1. No one is crying out US arm sales to pakis ,only freebies

US freebies, have strings, More Pakistan takes the better. Also, Purchased and copied arms(which Russia doesnt do anything about) kills as much as Freebies.

So please explain how these strings help India ? The strings are to protect US. Why will US give away TOW missiles, LGB kits etc and ask them to not use against India?? Who will pakistan use them against?

At least by buying the arms they can't afford, forcing them on the downward spiral much faster!

For their own benefit not ours, There is more , take 1965. IF they are our friends, why stop at E.Pak

For their own benefit?? Have you even read about the incident or what the Russian admiral said? Do you even know that Russia used their veto in the security council for our benefit which US and UK was pushing for? Talk about clutching at straws here!!

4. People may be living off US economy, but no one is advocating cutting all ties with US. They in fact encourage more US-India trade, but only limit the defence purchases due to US sanctions and their fickle policies that change with each president

Quite selective isnt it

Yup, I wonder who would like to purchase from someone who can use it later to put pressure on you, or rather put sanctions and don't even offer spares. I think the seaking helicopters were grounded because IN was too lazy to repair them And withholding all the LCA related FCS that India was working on with LM, that too was probably because we didnt pay them!

5. Whether people know you from your handle or not doesn't matter to many forumites. What matters is your arguments and facts. Like you yourself mentioned, compared to us losers, you have a life off the internet. So reading here once in a blue moon and making assumptions out of that limited reading makes you post your invalid assumptions that people here challenge. So you resort to calling majority Indians as foolish. I don't know if you include yourself into it or not

There is nothing to assume huge leeway is given to Russia, the amount damage Russians have done to Indian Defense Industries to keep their market as well as done to the Indian Armed Forces capability through faulty products, delays, price increases, and not to mention corrupt practices to sell T-90 and Gorshkov and various others down the Indian Tax Payers throat is appalling all the while arming China to the teeth., It is quite evident about which tune this forums sings, I wouldnt say the about the Forum admins though. Therefore it must be a reflective of the Indian Populace, if that is the case, yes they are foolish, most of'em.

And I guess that includes you too

You also need to remember that other countries wouldn't sell their wares to India at that time, or the credits that Russia offered India. Please read up more on the AN-32 purchase, it is available on BR. Also, did you read about Adm Mehta's statements that no one else offered us an aircraft carrier, and that at $2 billion, it was still cheaper compared to alternatives?

And all defence manufacturers indulge in bribery and corruption, and here we are ourselves to blame. Even Bofors and HDW had corruption scandals, and quite a few companies including Denel were blacklisted.

People have taken Russia to task when required. So claiming that Russia is favored is plain wrong.

6. Russia has helped India in many defence and space projects and are continuing to do it in projects like Arihant etc. Similarly the french too weren't against India after the 1998 tests. Given the fact that even recently, Admiral Mullen, the joint CoS of US forces was calling for putting more pressure on India to resolve disputes with Pakistan, giving more leverage to US is foolish.

Russia has done all it has, all for a price. Nothing more, and also since we keep a blind eye to China. Others dont, since they dont need our money. While Russians do.

Ok, let us accept your argument that Russia did it for a price. Now, pray educate us on why US won't even do it even if we pay it?? Why are some of our defence and space establishments still under US sanctions? We weren't begging like the pakis to give us free stuff, we offered to buy it at market rates.

Will the US offer us cryogenic engines if we pay them? Will they help us with the nuclear submarine design and construction if we pay them?

[Kavu]

So please explain how these strings help India ? The strings are to protect US. Why will US give away TOW missiles, LGB kits etc and ask them to not use against India?? Who will pakistan use them against?

At least by buying the arms they can't afford, forcing them on the downward spiral much faster!

If Americans dont, then the Chinese will fill the space, on whom we have NO INFLUENCE whatsoever. Let there be another war, you will see who the Americans support, the one with the bigger economy. You will see, who will get the harder sanctions, who will get some namesake one's. We are different now, we are stronger and more influential now. Americans bribes the Paki's not to be completely in the Chinese camp, if you still think that doesnt help us, then what can I say.

For their own benefit?? Have you even read about the incident or what the Russian admiral said? Do you even know that Russia used their veto in the security council for our benefit which US and UK was pushing for? Talk about clutching at straws here!!

Yup, They wanted a big power like India on their side, as well as warm waters, too bad for them that even after they promoted communist and socialist thinking in this country, Indians didnt give them another Commie country nor any military ports in the Indian Ocean,

Yup, I wonder who would like to purchase from someone who can use it later to put pressure on you, or rather put sanctions and don't even offer spares. I think the seaking helicopters were grounded because IN was too lazy to repair them And withholding all the LCA related FCS that India was working on with LM, that too was probably because we didnt pay them!

Who said America is our friend? I am just telling everyone to be on India's camp. Not in Russia's nor in America's. Russians have hurted as much as the Americans, if not more with their active support to the Chinese military.



Good that you avoided the first part of my reply, as I knew you would

Ok, let us accept your argument that Russia did it for a price. Now, pray educate us on why US won't even do it even if we pay it?? Why are some of our defence and space establishments still under US sanctions? We weren't begging like the pakis to give us free stuff, we offered to buy it at market rates.

You keep assuming that I want us to jump into the US bandwagon, I dont. while I am just asking you not give the Russians any leeway under any assumed friendship or at the cost of India and her interest. US is not our friend nor anyone.

Will the US offer us cryogenic engines if we pay them? Will they help us with the nuclear submarine design and construction if we pay them?

No, They wont, They will not create another power to counter them, While Russians are so desperate, they just dont care.

[putnanja]

If Americans dont, then the Chinese will fill the space, on whom we have NO INFLUENCE whatsoever. Let there be another war, you will see who the Americans support, the one with the bigger economy. You will see, who will get the harder sanctions, who will get some namesake one's. We are different now, we are stronger and more influential now. Americans bribes the Paki's not to be completely in the Chinese camp, if you still think that doesnt help us, then what can I say.

The chinese have already been filling the space since the 60s. The pakis are smart enough to realize that they cannot trust the americans. Americans are arming and bribing pakistanis so that they can get out of Afghanistan fast enough with their H&D intact, not to prevent pakis from falling into chinese hand. Almost all of their bribes are to ensure that taliban wont attack US troops and to ensure that they have some face-saving mechanism to withdraw. The pakis too know that once the americans leave the region, they will be on their own, so they are milking the US for all they are worth! The chinese don't figure into that equation.

Do you know that chinese companies have won quite a few contracts in Afghanistan too, especially for mines etc?

For their own benefit?? Have you even read about the incident or what the Russian admiral said? Do you even know that Russia used their veto in the security council for our benefit which US and UK was pushing for? Talk about clutching at straws here!!

Yup, They wanted a big power like India on their side, as well as warm waters, too bad for them that even after they promoted communist and socialist thinking in this country, Indians didnt give them another Commie country nor any military ports in the Indian Ocean,

LOL!! That is the first time I heard that! Good one, please keep such gems coming!

Who said America is our friend? I am just telling everyone to be on India's camp. Not in Russia's nor in America's. Russians have hurted as much as the Americans, if not more with their active support to the Chinese military.

Good that you avoided the first part of my reply, as I knew you would

You can't tell any other country to not sell arms to others. We are not as powerful as that. The Russians don't sell to pakis because we have billions of dollars in contract with them. France, UK, Sweden, US and lots of other countries sell to Pakistan. Russia sells to China as EU has an embargo and they stand to make money there.

The point here is that we have to look after our own interest, and to ensure that whatever we buy won't be used as pressure point on us later on. The US has a history of it and their recent announcements doesn't help it.

And please tell me what part of your reply that I avoided so I can look it over.

Ok, let us accept your argument that Russia did it for a price. Now, pray educate us on why US won't even do it even if we pay it?? Why are some of our defence and space establishments still under US sanctions? We weren't begging like the pakis to give us free stuff, we offered to buy it at market rates.

You keep assuming that I want us to jump into the US bandwagon, I dont. while I am just asking you not give the Russians any leeway under any assumed friendship or at the cost of India and her interest. US is not our friend nor anyone.

If your reply is really what you mean, then there is no need for this whole exchange, as I am in 100% agreement with that statement.

No one is giving leeway to Russians. Like I said, if you look at armour and gorshkov threads, you will see that Russian products are blasted there too. People are defending Arjun as that will protect Indian interests and R&D. And that is what majority here want. No one is identifying Russian or US interests with India's interests.

Will the US offer us cryogenic engines if we pay them? Will they help us with the nuclear submarine design and construction if we pay them?

No, They wont, They will not create another power to counter them, While Russians are so desperate, they just dont care.

So, we go to those who don't care as long as our interests aren't compromised and we gain something fruitful in return!

[Indranil]

No, They wont, They will not create another power to counter them, While Russians are so desperate, they just dont care.

I dont think that Russia's help to us at the point when they supplied us cryogenic engines was out of desperation. Russia has been on our side. It might have all started off with the cold war thing, but they did help us in many ways just out of the bonhomie that was generated.

[OT-alert ON]
US wasn't on our side. If one looks at history, some like me, might come to the conclusion that they couln't. how could they be on the side of a country which had a good relation with USSR? As a country, India didnt matter to them. The only way that India mattered to them is that it was on USSR's side.
[OT-alert OFF]

But we can't look at everything through the glasses of the past. Russia is not USSR (from the 20th century), US is no longer the super power from yesteryears. Its economy is super dependent. And certainly, India is no longer a conglomeration of villages from Malgudi days.

I wonder whether the point of sanctions is as valid as it is made to look every now and then. I would rather buy stuff on merit and our interests. We should think with our heads rather than hearts. how does the country of origin matter to us. We still need the US for our economy to grow and we still need Russia for many of our needs. choose the military stuff based on our needs and the pathway to encourage more trade. Having US and the the Russia on our side can only do good afterall!

[Kavu]

Kavu wrote

People over here say the PM of this country is a traitor on a regular basis

This is a very serious accusation being levelled by you and unless you can now come out with conclusive proof to back such a serious accusation, I see no reason why you should not be served a notice for cyberlibel.

Furthermore, freedom of expression is not an absolute right (certain responsibilities go along with this right) and does not allow a person to say whatever he wishes to on or off the internet.

calling Jesus and Mohammed whatever names is all good, but say something about Ram or castism or Russia; you are in for it.

Even if you may have come to this forum with a preordained agenda, please allow me to point out deliberately inciting hatred on grounds of religion etc. in public (even on a forum) is an offence.

I would suggest you have a look at, amongst others, sections 153A, 499 and 505 of the IPC.

Do a forum search and come back to me. The very thread I was warned, had atleast 3 cases of PM being termed an American lackey in the last two pages. Go to the Nuclear Thread and Pakistan/Islamism/Evangalist thread, if you want to see further evidences. That really doesnt matter, as I dont see any reason for my warning with respect to the benchmarks set by the board as well as I dont expect justice to be given, after all this is a private board, but dont give me a holier than thou attitude, when that clearly isnt the case. And to say I created religious hatred, when I have not even commented on a religious thread ever in this forum, lol. I suggest you read, and read again my post, comprehend, then if needed read again, then post your thoughts on what I wrote.

PS: Lets not get all Legal Supermacho on the Internet, that is quite easy and I am not easily deterred by that and I can sure take care of myself. Though address it to the Kerala High Court Jurisdiction please, I dont like Travelling. With the amount of slanderous items posted here, I wonder who will be running the steps of a court. Anyways, You are not a person representing the board or its owners, So it really doesnt matter nor do I care what you say. Might I also add, I have never ever seen any of the Board owners say anything offensive ever, though I cant say the same about some of the moderators.

[putnanja]

But we can't look at everything through the glasses of the past. Russia is not USSR (20th century), US is no longer the super power for yesteryears. Its economy is super dependent. And certainly is no longer a conglomeration of villages from Malgudi days.

I wonder wether the point of sanctions is as valid as it is made to look every now and then. I would rather buy stuff on merit and our interests. We should think with our heads rather than hearts. how does the country of origin matter to us. We still need the US for our economy to grow and we still need Russia for many of our needs. choose the military stuff based on our needs and the pathway to encourage more trade. Having US and the the Russia on our side can only do good afterall!

Indranil, the point of sanctions is still valid due to the controversy over PoK II. there may be a time when we need to test again, so before we sign CTBT

And it is not just sanctions. US and India's views differ significantly in the geopolitics of our region. The current af-pak is a good example. When US starts pressurizing India to offer more concessions to pakistan, do you want to add one more point of leverage? And if we do go to a war against pakistan, and US imposes sanctions on both countries to "prevent nuclear holocaust", won't it prevent us from going in for the kill? Remember that during Op Parakram, the US with its travel advisories caused major issues for India, and even our own IT companies starting asking GoI to tone down the war talk!

[Kavu]

The chinese have already been filling the space since the 60s. The pakis are smart enough to realize that they cannot trust the americans. Americans are arming and bribing pakistanis so that they can get out of Afghanistan fast enough with their H&D intact, not to prevent pakis from falling into chinese hand. Almost all of their bribes are to ensure that taliban wont attack US troops and to ensure that they have some face-saving mechanism to withdraw. The pakis too know that once the americans leave the region, they will be on their own, so they are milking the US for all they are worth! The chinese don't figure into that equation.

Pakis might be smart or whatever, but true to that region,They are all traitors. And for them American Political muscle and world influence, and freebies is far more important than just military freebies from China.

LOL!! That is the first time I heard that! Good one, please keep such gems coming!

You really arent that well read are you, or are you so naive enough to believe that one country supports another for love, affection and peanuts?

Read up : http://books.google.co.in/books?id=m2g9 ... es&f=false

Page 4. Introduction. First Para.

You can't tell any other country to not sell arms to others. We are not as powerful as that. The Russians don't sell to pakis because we have billions of dollars in contract with them. France, UK, Sweden, US and lots of other countries sell to Pakistan. Russia sells to China as EU has an embargo and they stand to make money there.

The point here is that we have to look after our own interest, and to ensure that whatever we buy won't be used as pressure point on us later on. The US has a history of it and their recent announcements doesn't help it.

And please tell me what part of your reply that I avoided so I can look it over.

My post is there, you can read up again.
Russia has deliberately avoided punishing China for its IPR violations(which is as good as giving freebies to China ala America to Pakistan), and continue to give them expensive sophisticated weapon system (last week 15 S-300PMU's), They have given far more advanced weaponry to Chinese, than the Americans have the Pakistani's, all the while destroying the Indian Tax Payer and Indian Armed Forces to keep their lucrative Indian Market.



If your reply is really what you mean, then there is no need for this whole exchange, as I am in 100% agreement with that statement.

No one is giving leeway to Russians. Like I said, if you look at armour and gorshkov threads, you will see that Russian products are blasted there too. People are defending Arjun as that will protect Indian interests and R&D. And that is what majority here want. No one is identifying Russian or US interests with India's interests.

Look at this thread, did anyone even comment on the Indian Naval Officer being inticed by the Russians to get 1.35 billion? They did play their cards well didnt they! While the LockMart guy who got files from MoD was roasted here for 3 pages. People over here give much more leeway than they give even the DRDO

[Kavu]

calling Jesus and Mohammed whatever names is all good, but say something about Ram or castism or Russia; you are in for it.

And to say I created religious hatred, when I have not even commented on a religious thread ever in this forum, lol.

are you thick, I was pointed out some members of this board, who have a constant habit slandering other religions. Did you see me anywhere calling Mohammed or Jesus anything or even Ram?

[Kavu]

The above statement from you displays the lack of even the basic rudimentaries of law. If you make an assertion, it is not the other person ('do a forum search and come back to me') who has to do any search etc but the onus of proving an assertion lies on the person who has made the assertion.

Nopes, You can try that babu run around the table idea on somebody else. I am not going to. I have already even pointed you to the latest thread. Even then you keep on harping as if you didnt hear it. Therefore it is quite evident you dont want to hear it or accept it. So do move along, as I dont see a Board owner or Moderator tag to you. And for all the IPC and whatever,I am a citizen of this country and quite hard working, law abiding, and successful one too, to be honest your threat on the internet is laughable at best.

Strangely enough you have no problems in enjoying the privileges of this forum by posting on this forum yet do not think you are bound by the rules of this forum?

It is on the internet, I am bound by the rules of the board as they deem fit to use it on me, which I am challenging is different for some members here. They can ban me, if I break their rules according to their interpretation of their own rules.

[Kavu]

are you thick

Mr Kavu, Please refrain from getting crude or indulging in personal attacks in your replies (I had also given you the same advice some days back when you had said certain derogatory things about one senior member of this forum).

Thanks.

So how does you falsly trying to incriminating me fit it in your scheme of things? is that crude or indulging in personal attacks, when I have nothing to do with you. So mind your business and move along. I will await the Moderators and Board Owners, suggestions and replies not yours.

PS: Nice game of entrapment, better luck next time son.

[putnanja]

The chinese have already been filling the space since the 60s. The pakis are smart enough to realize that they cannot trust the americans. Americans are arming and bribing pakistanis so that they can get out of Afghanistan fast enough with their H&D intact, not to prevent pakis from falling into chinese hand. Almost all of their bribes are to ensure that taliban wont attack US troops and to ensure that they have some face-saving mechanism to withdraw. The pakis too know that once the americans leave the region, they will be on their own, so they are milking the US for all they are worth! The chinese don't figure into that equation.

Pakis might be smart or whatever, but true to that region,They are all traitors. And for them American Political muscle and world influence, and freebies is far more important than just military freebies from China.

They need both freebies from US and China, they can't survive without either one. And they are not going to give up on their friendship with Chinese for US.

You really arent that well read are you, or are you so naive enough to believe that one country supports another for love, affection and peanuts?

Read up : http://books.google.co.in/books?id=m2g9 ... es&f=false

Page 4. Introduction. First Para.

err, did you read your article again? Does it say anywhere that the Soviet Union expected India to become a communist country like you claimed? With India going on and on about NAM, there was no way India would have give the USSR military ports. there was quid pro quo, for all relations are based on that. But to say that India becoming communist country was one too many! And BTW, good job googling for stuff after being questioned

My post is there, you can read up again.
Russia has deliberately avoided punishing China for its IPR violations(which is as good as giving freebies to China ala America to Pakistan), and continue to give them expensive sophisticated weapon system (last week 15 S-300PMU's), They have given far more advanced weaponry to Chinese, than the Americans have the Pakistani's, all the while destroying the Indian Tax Payer and Indian Armed Forces to keep their lucrative Indian Market.

If Indian defence market didn't develop, it was due to our own policies, and the lack of technology we had at that time. And if you go over to the R&D thread, you can see the continuing debate on promoting Indian industries. Every country including US offers us products that we ourselves are ready to produce once we master the technologies.

Russia sells arms to China because it has the monopoly there, with EU and US not selling arms to China. The chinese will steal whatever they cannot buy or produce, and chinese industrial espionage in US is the biggest worry for US. With the manufacturing technologies they have access to from being the world's factory, they don't lack in anything. China also paid huge sums and employed the unemployed USSR scientists once they lost their jobs after USSR collapse.

No one is giving leeway to Russians. Like I said, if you look at armour and gorshkov threads, you will see that Russian products are blasted there too. People are defending Arjun as that will protect Indian interests and R&D. And that is what majority here want. No one is identifying Russian or US interests with India's interests.

Look at this thread, did anyone even comment on the Indian Naval Officer being inticed by the Russians to get 1.35 billion? They did play their cards well didnt they! While the LockMart guy who got files from MoD was roasted here for 3 pages. People over here give much more leeway than they give even the DRDO

Do you really believe that just one person was able to convince the entire Indian MoD and GOI to cough up more for vikramaditya? There have been multiple teams from IN which have visited and inspected Adm Gorshkov before the purchase was signed, and the project was hanging fire for almost a decade! Photos of this guy with Russian woman might have surfaced, but does the article talked of any wrong doing? has it said anywhere that the Russian woman was spy or linked to Russian arms industry?

The confidential MoD file was copied from Indian MoD and handed back to MoD by mistake by a foreign vendor. And you are comparing a confirmed espionage case with a IN officer who had a fling with a Russian??

Now, if you really wanted to compare, you would have talked about an IN officer who was suspiciously killed as he was raising uncomfortable questions about some other naval Russian contracts. But the forum has debated on that too, probably when you were busy with your life

[Indranil]

Indranil, the point of sanctions is still valid due to the controversy over PoK II. there may be a time when we need to test again, so before we sign CTBT

And it is not just sanctions. US and India's views differ significantly in the geopolitics of our region. The current af-pak is a good example. When US starts pressurizing India to offer more concessions to pakistan, do you want to add one more point of leverage? And if we do go to a war against pakistan, and US imposes sanctions on both countries to "prevent nuclear holocaust", won't it prevent us from going in for the kill? Remember that during Op Parakram, the US with its travel advisories caused major issues for India, and even our own IT companies starting asking GoI to tone down the war talk!

Rightly said. but since you brought it up, I will discuss it. Sanctions are placed on a country which would cripple the country and force it to back track its steps. Sanctions are placed by a country which doesn't get affected by those sanctions. Right? India might get slower but won't get crippled any longer by a US sanction. US will take a major hit, the whole Indian market (which is HUGE). and a emerging super power as a strategic partner both vis-a-vis China and Af-pak.

Where are the US and Indian policies different in Af-pak? US wants India to be there. India supports US occupation in Af-Pak! What more do you expect from there? US has the requirement of mollifying pak every now and then. It is their requirement of the hour. Or do you expect them to invade Pakistan? They are trying to act on whomever they want to! It is working as per its requirement. We cant expect them to start bombing LeT camps in POK!

As far as providing arms to Pakistan for free! I am equally angered by it. And then I think. A certain president of a country whose resources I desperately need comes to town with his general and demands BIG BIG things. If I want to continue using their resources, what am I supposed to do? Can I give him a few toys instead of its big asks and send him back, that will be the smartest thing for me to do, right? I am sure GOI and the defence forces know this, along with the point the the gifts wont tip the balance much. Ofcourse we should and are voicing our opinion.

I am running the risk here of sounding like a US fanboy, which I am not. I am just putting my views forth. I feel that there is certainly a change in policies, and i believe the realignment is need-driven to a certain extent (strategic and economic). Ofcourse re-alignment takes some time. We can't expect it to be overnight! And if it does, wouldn't we smell a fish?

[putnanja]

Rightly said. but since you brought it up, I will discuss it. Sanctions are placed on a country which would cripple the country and force it to back track its steps. Sanctions are placed by a country which doesn't get affected by those sanctions. Right? India might get slower but won't get crippled any longer by a US sanction. US will take a major hit, the whole Indian market (which is HUGE). and a emerging super power as a strategic partner both vis-a-vis China and Af-pak.

Where are the US and Indian policies different in Af-pak? US wants India to be there. India supports US occupation in Af-Pak! What more do you expect from there? US has the requirement of mollifying pak every now and then. It is their requirement of the hour. Or do you expect them to invade Pakistan? They are trying to act on whomever they want to! It is working as per its requirement. We cant expect them to start bombing LeT camps in POK!

As far as providing arms to Pakistan for free! I am equally angered by it. And then I think. A certain president of a country whose resources I desperately need comes to town with his general and demands BIG BIG things. If I want to continue using their resources, what am I supposed to do? Can I give him a few toys instead of its big asks and send him back, that will be the smartest thing for me to do, right? I am sure GOI and the defence forces know this, along with the point the the gifts wont tip the balance much. Ofcourse we should and are voicing our opinion.

I am running the risk here of sounding like a US fanboy, which I am not. I am just putting my views forth. I feel that there is certainly a change in policies, and i believe the realignment is need-driven to a certain extent (strategic and economic). Ofcourse re-alignment takes some time. We can't expect it to be overnight! And if it does, wouldn't we smell a fish?

The reply will be totally OT, as we have been OT for quite some time now. please look at Af-Pak thread in Strat forum for your statements about india and US agreeing on af-pak. Basically, US wants India to keep a low profile in Afghanistan, and get out if possible so that pak can be mollified. It also wants India to give concessions to pak on kashmir and reduce troops on LoC even if rate of inflitration is up, so that pak will be happy. And US has publicly said that it wants to be out of Afghanistan in 2011. And the US gifts like LGBs, 2000 TOW missiles, anti-ship missiles etc are not small gifts.

The US is looking after its interests, and we need to do the same instead of saying that we need to look at US interests too. India doesn't gain anything if taliban supported by pakistan comes back to power in afghanistan. US will be far away, but it is us who have to bear the brunt. In the end, the US will be out after giving lots of free advanced arms worth billions of dollars, and leaving afghanistan in a paki proxy controlled govt. It will be pre-9/11 once again.

[Indranil]

The reply will be totally OT, as we have been OT for quite some time now. please look at Af-Pak thread in Strat forum for your statements about india and US agreeing on af-pak. Basically, US wants India to keep a low profile in Afghanistan, and get out if possible so that pak can be mollified. It also wants India to give concessions to pak on kashmir and reduce troops on LoC even if rate of inflitration is up, so that pak will be happy. And US has publicly said that it wants to be out of Afghanistan in 2011. And the US gifts like LGBs, 2000 TOW missiles, anti-ship missiles etc are not small gifts.

The US is looking after its interests, and we need to do the same instead of saying that we need to look at US interests too. India doesn't gain anything if taliban supported by pakistan comes back to power in afghanistan. US will be far away, but it is us who have to bear the brunt. In the end, the US will be out after giving lots of free advanced arms worth billions of dollars, and leaving afghanistan in a paki proxy controlled govt. It will be pre-9/11 once again.

you are right. lets not derail this thread any further. Just a few points
1. I never said "India should look after US interests". I have always been saying the contrary.
2. There are as many statements by the US supporting India's role in Afghanistan, take the latest one for example!
3. US will leave afghanistan sooner or later, and Afghanistan might have a pseudo-governance. How does should it matter to us. We should work on making our borders impermeable!
4. US is far from aking a hit after all the wars that it has waged against hardliners, far cry isn't it?

Anyways, lets not discuss it here any further. We can take it up at the right thread!

[Tushar]

^^ Those are honestly the worst shows I have ever seen. To supplement their ignorance and petty knowledge while reporting on military topics, they also have a very shallow sense of humour. Rocky and his boyfriend cocky are fit for reporting on Sania Mirzas wedding. Leave defence alone, because its an insult to the viewers.

[Tushar]

To SunnyS, your videos are very fanboyish and frankly useless. I am very glad to see you can take some videos and pictures, and post some background music, but frankly, its degrading this forums credibility. Nice effort though !