Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

[biswas]

** Deleted **
Discussed a couple of pages back.

[K Mehta]

^^Old news

Apr 21, 2010

Already reported and discussed earlier!
Admins please remove these posts

[Samay]

here comes even morehttp://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/201 ... stans.html
http://www.8ak.in/8ak_india_defence_new ... -navy.html

and here is the response from Indian defence minister

A. K. Antony told reporters in New Delhi that India's concerns had been conveyed to Washington.

"Even though the US is giving equipment to Pakistan to fight against the Taliban, we feel there is every possibility of (Pakistan) diverting most of them to the Indian borders," Antony said.

"We have already conveyed our concerns about transfer of equipment to

Pakistan. We told the US that they have to be careful about that,"

one thing is sure ,present batch of politicians are out there to insult India and reduce whatever respect is left

old days of pi$$$$ mentality are back in new delhi

its about time that they will start projecting pakistan as our sole competitor , fearful ,dreadful, and therefore MFN :most feared nation
pi$$$$ media channels will go mad with calls to talk and aman ki bheek
terrorism in J&K would rise
old ways are back


chinese will be delighted to see that

[rahul_h]

It seems that we are the one funding our own war in south asia.....

c-130j -- 6+6(later) -- 2 billion$ deal size -- , profits to US approx 400 million$

P-8i -- 8 -- 3 billion$ deal size --, profits to US approx 500 million$

c-17 -- 10-- 5 billion$ deal size --, profits to US approx 1 billion$

Tanker deal -- 6 -- 3 billion $ deal size-- , profits to US approx 500 million $

MMRCA (Now common every one in parliament knows that 123 nuke agreement will open gates for US weapons in India so they will definitely win this deal..... )
-- 126-- 12 billion$ deal size --, profits to US approx 3 billion$ due to selling outdated technology at higher prices.......

Total profits -- 5.4 billion$
All of this will be given to pakistan to fight taliban al qaeda lashkar no no no to fight India.............and we will be funding this WAR

[Kartik]

PAF to get its Chinese Shaanxi ZDK-03 AEWACS this year..with an airspace less than a quarter of ours, they will have 4 Saab Erieyes and 4 ZDK-03s to provide 24 hour surveillance of their airspace..

I cannot imagine what is delaying the IAF from placing its follow-on order for more Phalcons..the only way to get the GoI to take ANY action urgently is to raise fears to fever pitch. The IAF needs to highlight this in a way that makes the GoI go for another 5-6 Phalcons..as it is we won't recieve them for another 3 years at least even if the order is placed this year itself.
article link

[Samay]

these extra awacs will be useful for them to defend their key installations once brahmos takes out their ground-based air defences, ..they are rapidly modernising in all areas,

while babus at mod are deliberately delaying defence projects
where is the drdo awacs ?, it was supposed to be ready by now .

Total profits -- 5.4 billion$
All of this will be given to pakistan to fight taliban al qaeda lashkar no no no to fight India.............and we will be funding this WAR

A key strategy of US mil. industrial complex is to keep the demand of counter systems high.thats is the reason of all kinds of gifts to pak,,,, no country with a fair sense does it except warmongers,.

If we purchase from them,we will support their effort and enter into a web.

If we neglect their weapons,their supply of free weapons to pakis will soon dry down..
we did it earlier earlier ,we can do this once again.

[NRao]

OT for this thread, but the sudden increase in spending attests to the fact that India had done pretty bad planning in the past few decades. Perhaps for good reasons, but, none the less there is a reason for this.

On India funding a war from both side. When do you think such a war would occur? 2015, 20, 25, 30.

IF Pakistan OR China do not start a war in the next - say - 5 years, time will be up.

[Samay]

The rate at which paques are modernising,rearming with the latest weapons,it seems they are preparing for a deadline of 2015, when unkil is out and chinese start the buildup
but again no one can predict from which side it will initiate, pakistan will repeat the history or the chinese initiate..

to prevent any such situation ,
we should not buy american stuff ,instead import russian or other with tot
start indigenous build up at massive scale

the situation depend on how better we are prepared than what they are planning for...

[shravan]

Pakistan successfully tests short range Ballistic missiles Ghaznavi with range of 290km and Shaheen 1 of 650km

[Craig Alpert]

^^ link for the above claim, along with other unnecessary rambling
Pakistan successfully Tests Ghaznavi and Shaheen I Missiles

[Craig Alpert]

Pakistan to get Chinese AEW&C aircraft this year

Pakistan has received its second Erieye radar-equipped Saab 2000, and will also accept its first Shaanxi ZDK-03 airborne early warning and control system aircraft before year-end.so it will be 3 for 3 vs India, although the capability of India might be slightly better, but nonetheless their acquisition process is a whole lot faster than ours!

Islamabad has four ZDK-03s on order, with deliveries due to start later this year, say air force sources. The type is a new variant of the Shaanxi Y8 AEW&C aircraft designed specifically for Pakistan.

The Chinese aircraft is powered by four turboprop engines and has a greater range than offered by the Saab Microwave Systems Erieye, the sources say.The air force recently received its second Saab 2000 surveillance aircraft, and anticipates that it will receive its remaining two in the second and third quarters of this year.

Pakistan's move to source AEW&C aircraft from both China and the West is indicative of its strategy to refrain from being overly reliant on any one ally. The USA imposed military sanctions against Pakistan from 1990 to 2005 in response to its testing nuclear weapons.

The air force's current fleet includes Lockheed Martin F-16s, Dassault Mirage III and 5 fighters, Chengdu F-7s and JF-17s; a new type developed jointly by China and Pakistan.In terms of military transports, Pakistan flies Lockheed C-130s, but also operates Ilyushin Il-78 tanker

[Cain Marko]

PAF to get its Chinese Shaanxi ZDK-03 AEWACS this year..with an airspace less than a quarter of ours, they will have 4 Saab Erieyes and 4 ZDK-03s to provide 24 hour surveillance of their airspace..

I cannot imagine what is delaying the IAF from placing its follow-on order for more Phalcons..the only way to get the GoI to take ANY action urgently is to raise fears to fever pitch. The IAF needs to highlight this in a way that makes the GoI go for another 5-6 Phalcons..as it is we won't recieve them for another 3 years at least even if the order is placed this year itself.
article link

Where are the damned KS-172s? TSP is sure doing an amazing job getting armed any way which it can - every thing from cruise missiles to subs to artillery to fighters, frigates, UAVs, AWACS and refuellers. Damn they move fast for a country that has a broken economy. And the Chinese are no slouches either - that J10 development/deployment sure came as a surprise. They probly will have AESA options on fighters in service in the next couple of years or even earlier. Expect to see the Varyag or some kind of knockoff in the waters as well.

The IAF may well be facing a 1000 J-10 + Flanker variants up north in the next 3-4 years. TSP will have a decent number of J-17s and Solahs too by then, all networked with assorted AWACS and P3Cs.

The IAF should get those damned UAE + Qatari Mirages (if on offer) even if they cost a bloody fortune. If they can spend close to 5 billion $s on those C-17s, they can spend another 5 billion on the extra M2ks and associated weapons. Load up on LCAs too - an order for 200 right now would help speed up things in terms of units per year two years down the road. It'll be too late to try and ramp up things after the **** hits the fan.

A follow on order for some more Kilos and possibly another Akula wouldn't hurt either. Bloody babu/netacracy acquisition process is bordering on criminal.

CM.

[Manish_Sharma]

PAF to get its Chinese Shaanxi ZDK-03 AEWACS this year..with an airspace less than a quarter of ours, they will have 4 Saab Erieyes and 4 ZDK-03s to provide 24 hour surveillance of their airspace..

I cannot imagine what is delaying the IAF from placing its follow-on order for more Phalcons..[/url]

Just the way Porkis are hedging both with swede and chinki platforms!
It won't be a very good idea to depend fully on Phalcons. DRDO needs to hurry up developing our own indigenous AEW&C. Phalcons must be riddled with khan trojans and we will be on the mercy of US during the war.
Example:
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index ... ge__st__40

US manageed to spoof Indian ship communication channel during Op Parakram, such that during the peak of Indian Military manuvere the ships that were on strict radio silance and guarding assigned flanks on western Arabian seas un-expectedly sailed home and only when they reached Mumbai, IN discovered they were spoofed with a messages that teh IN Command never sent. That was when IN rarely used a US equipment (that too on peripheral systems), what to speak of Command & Control nodes or sensor nodes, or AESA that dowes both.

[Samay]

Let them first establish a complete C3I system,before they think how to safeguard...
since they are bent to purchase from israelis(american baby),it means in future we could be fighting a war that never happened,or that was never ours! ,.

To prevent such things in future ,they have to built the systems from scratch-processors,ICs, dedicated communication systems that dont use american hardware,software,gps,radars,and most important the mission computers

Now does it means we have to embark upon some LCA type project? yes it has to be

Note:they would be using amriki mission computers is p-8i, now what else amrikis would want track the whole IOR using log reports (of mission computers) from our aircrafts .

Just the way Porkis are hedging both with swede and chinki platforms!
It won't be a very good idea to depend fully on Phalcons. DRDO needs to hurry up developing our own indigenous AEW&C. Phalcons must be riddled with khan trojans and we will be on the mercy of US during the war.

how much time is it going to take ,?
we need to rapidly built a fleet of awacs of our own, at least chinese did that and now paquis are doing this to ensure reliability of such systems in a war,,
What we have got ,two elephants to save delhi? what about the rest of the country?

[sum]

The Chinese aircraft is powered by four turboprop engines and has a greater range than offered by the Saab Microwave Systems Erieye, the sources say.The air force recently received its second Saab 2000 surveillance aircraft, and anticipates that it will receive its remaining two in the second and third quarters of this year.

The only silver lining is that there is nothing which gets files moving faster than Pak acquiring the same platform as what was in the file( which was gathering dust till then).

So, will expect DRDO to get a danda to quicken the indigenous AWACs programme and more Phalcons will definitely be ordered in double quick time.

Am still amazed as to how such a Bhikari desh is getting so much $$ to buy so much goodies? Are the Chinese giving the Y-8 for free? Will they also pay for its maintenance etc ( since running costs of so many different platforms will be huge drain on feeble Paki economy)?

[sum]

Manish-ji wrote:

Example:
US manageed to spoof Indian ship communication channel during Op Parakram, such that during the peak of Indian Military manuvere the ships that were on strict radio silance and guarding assigned flanks on western Arabian seas un-expectedly sailed home and only when they reached Mumbai, IN discovered they were spoofed with a messages that teh IN Command never sent. That was when IN rarely used a US equipment (that too on peripheral systems), what to speak of Command & Control nodes or sensor nodes, or AESA that dowes both.

I have heard from certain chai-wallahs that there are dedicated engineers in our agencies ( esp RCI etc) whose only job is to go through the source code and trawl for trojans.

It was mentioned in Israeli context ( apparently, they did find quite a few trojans). Do the Israelis provide us with source code for our guys to check for Trojans?

[Rajaneethan]

PAF to get its Chinese Shaanxi ZDK-03 AEWACS this year..with an airspace less than a quarter of ours, they will have 4 Saab Erieyes and 4 ZDK-03s to provide 24 hour surveillance of their airspace..

I cannot imagine what is delaying the IAF from placing its follow-on order for more Phalcons..the only way to get the GoI to take ANY action urgently is to raise fears to fever pitch. The IAF needs to highlight this in a way that makes the GoI go for another 5-6 Phalcons..as it is we won't recieve them for another 3 years at least even if the order is placed this year itself.
article link

'However, just like the American had concluded during its development of AN/SPY-1, Chinese discovered that the longer range of the phased array radar is far more crucial than higher accuracy'

The above is a quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_348_Radar

It would appear the kj2000 or y-8 awacs sold to pakistan, are based on the type 348 radars, and experience gained from them. These radars are active phased arrays, but have a range of 150kms on ships, if this range has increased in such a short time and not proven in a real test environment, then the accuracy is certainly compromised. I believe the chinese have compromised range with accuracy, to speed things up and fill the gap for a less capable platform like the kj2000 compared to the phalcon.

[Craig Alpert]

Pakistani air force pilots learned to fly the F-16 Fighting Falcon's newer C- and D-model at 162nd Fighter Wing

Eight Pakistani air force pilots, each experienced in the F-16 Fighting Falcon's A and B models, recently learned to fly the newer C- and D-model aircraft at the 162nd Fighter Wing, the international F-16 training unit, and were honored at a graduation ceremony May 4 here.
.......................

The pilots are the first from their country to train in the United States since 1983, when the last class of Pakistani pilots trained at Luke Air Force Base, Ariz.

..................

The new planes purchased by Pakistani government officials, Block 52 versions of the multirole fighter, are far more advanced than the older A-model versions and will allow pilots to conduct operations at night and greatly enhance their use of precision munitions.

The first four of the 18 planes purchased are scheduled for delivery June 26 to Shahbaz Air Base in Pakistan. The rest will be delivered on a staggered schedule throughout this year. In addition, Pakistan's existing F-16 fleet will undergo a mid-life update in 2011 designed to upgrade cockpits and avionics to match the F-16C/D.

........................

[shukla]

US, Pak officials discuss military deliveries

A core group of US and Pakistani officials met and reviewed the status of American military equipment deliveries to Pakistan, including the new F-16 fighter aircrafts, aimed at strengthening the country's security capabilities, an official statement has said. The meeting that was held on May 5 in Rawalpindi, was co-chaired by Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs Thomas M Countryman, Deputy Director of the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency Jeanne Lynn Farmer, and Major General Nasir Mahmood, Additional Secretary, Ministry of Defense Production.

Among recent developments, the Working Group discussed the April 30 delivery of US P-3C patrol aircraft to the Pakistani Navy, an Oliver Hazard Perry Class naval vessel, and progress in construction at Shahbaz Air Force Base, facilitating the delivery of new F-16 fighter aircraft for the Pakistani Air Force later this year, a State Department statement said today. It said the US security assistance programmes in Pakistan aim to improve Pakistan's counterinsurgency and counter terrorism operational capacities, enhance US-Pakistan interoperability, and help to deepen bilateral relations, the statement said. "Our robust military-to-military relationship with Pakistan also underscores our long-term commitment to remain engaged in the region, as well as our commitment to regional stability," said the State Department.

[Pratik_S]

My take on PAF and 5th Generation fighters.
http://angle-of-attack.blogspot.com/201 ... ytime.html

[Samay]

http://angle-of-attack.blogspot.com/201 ... ytime.html
smpratik,,you are missing an important fact in your analysis....

pakis have an advantage , the chinese had started their 5th gen aircraft program much earlier,as early as in 2000 ,and are ahead of us in it .While we havent yet started any formal program (only studying it ).

Imagine if putin delays its delievery to us,to renegotiate on its pricing.?,and while we take more time to negotiate(credit the babus),chinese come up with a prototype? Sounds imaginary,well this always happens)

I think chinese will reveal the JXX in 2020 if not earlier.they are even sacrificing their agents in usa to get any tit-bit about f22..

american assesment may be closely related to stopping others,ie Indians,japanese,etc from starting any such program and remain obsolete in weapons technology,which they are. russians on other hand will give them mig MFI protype ,just in case china spends 20 bn to get its design .

I guess Indian babus are deliberately delaying MCA program to kickstart...
when will we start?when chinese start testing theirs?

[Pankaj C]

Saam, Daam Dand, Bhed - an ancient Indian philisophy that the chinese seem to be using very effectively to acquire all tech they can , and they are doing a pretty good job at it. As has been stated umpteen number of times in almost every thread in this forum, we need to watch our back - no one else will do it. Unless we develop a technological base of our own, we will always lag behind china. pakis will get the very same systems as soon as the chinese can give them, after all isnt it in the interest of china?

Mods - please remove the post if OT.

[arun]

X Posted.

"]NYT[/quote]

From the posted article:

Mr. Shahzad came of age during Pakistan’s state-sponsored jihad against India’s military in the breakaway region of Kashmir — a conflict that granted legendary status to Pakistani jihadists. “We used to see the mujahedeen as heroes,” said one graduate of Mr. Shahzad’s high school, who, like others interviewed for this article, spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of retribution. “When I look back, I think, ‘What was I thinking? What were we all doing?’ But in that era, it made sense. We all wanted to do something.”

The cynical practice of the Senior Officers of the Pakistan Military to sacrifice the children of the poor of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as cannon fodder for the cause of waging Jihad against India seems to have come back to haunt the uppermost echelons of the Military.

Let me hope that the likelyhood of seeing their own children seduced by the depraved values of Islamic Jihad propagated by them to hurt India will give pause to the Pakistan Military’s sponsorship of terrorism.

[Samay]

X Posted.
NYT

Mr. Shahzad came of age during Pakistan’s state-sponsored jihad against India’s military in the breakaway region of Kashmir — a conflict that granted legendary status to Pakistani jihadists. “We used to see the mujahedeen as heroes,” said one graduate of Mr. Shahzad’s high school, who, like others interviewed for this article, spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of retribution. “When I look back, I think, ‘What was I thinking? What were we all doing?’ But in that era, it made sense. We all wanted to do something.”

The cynical practice of the Senior Officers of the Pakistan Military to sacrifice the children of the poor of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan as cannon fodder for the cause of waging Jihad against India seems to have come back to haunt the uppermost echelons of the Military.

Let me hope that the likelyhood of seeing their own children seduced by the depraved values of Islamic Jihad propagated by them to hurt India will give pause to the Pakistan Military’s sponsorship of terrorism.

Well hoping good is not a bad thing,
but nobody knows for sure what the mad-rassa logic comes out with
well it had always brought a solution which survived and pushed the society into darkness because its prerequisite is that mad-rassa logic can never be wrong
may be that way ,the army elite in paquistan is lured to send their children in this disease , and that has a fair chance to happen
instead of us faring in wonderland ,we must prepare against a series of radical generals to come into power in bakiland ,will always be ready to use islamic bum.
and that has more likelyhood .

[shukla]

Army chief Kayani's tenure not to be extended: Pak

Talking to journalists in Lahore, Pakistan’s defense minister Chaudhry Ahmed Mukhtar said that the government was “neither granting extension to chief of army staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani nor had the general sought it.”

The incumbent Army Chief General Kiyani is due to handover the charge to his successor on November 29, 2010. According to the tradition, the senior most general has to be selected for the top military slot.

[Kailash]

Two Bell Helicopters to Pak Army

The U.S. purchased the two enhanced-performance utility transport helicopters, valued at $24 million, to support Pakistan’s counterinsurgency operations. The U.S. also provided $20 million in associated spare parts, special tools and other equipment to support the aircraft.

and a list of arms in alms..

Specific security assistance includes 14 F-16 fighter aircraft, 10 Mi-17 helicopters, more than 450 vehicles for Pakistan’s Frontier Corps, hundreds of night vision goggles, day/night scopes, radios, and thousands of protective vests and first-aid items for Pakistan’s security forces.

[arun]

X Posted. The Jihadi Doctrine of the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

The “ Jihad-fi-Sabilillah” or translated “Jihad in the path of Allah” part of the motto of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to have leaked across service lines and indoctrinated the offspring of those who served into attempting to commit acts of Jihad half way across the world.

Would be Pakistani descent car bomber of New York’s Times Square, Faisal Shahzad’s father Baharul Haq is a retired Air Vice Marshal of the Air Force of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and went on to serve as the head of the Islamic Republic’s Civil Aviation Authority:

NY bomber's father big shot in Pak military

The would be Pakistani origin Times Square car bomber’s connections to the top levels of the Military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan does not end there. Faisal Shahzad was the nephew of Major General (Retd) Tajul Haq who served as the Inspector General of Frontier Corps (IGFC):

Faisal Shahzad’s father vacates Peshawar house

Hamm ………………. The “ Jihad-fi-Sabilillah” or translated “Jihad in the path of Allah” part of the motto of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan not only seems to have leaked across service lines and indoctrinated the offspring of those who served into attempting to commit acts of Jihad half way across the world, it has also seduced one the Army‘s very own into assisting in the commission of the act:

Dig deep enough and you find TFTA army involved in NY failed bum attempt

Pakistan arrests army officer linked to Times Square bomb suspect

Pakistan Investigators have arrested a Pakistani army major linked to the prime suspect in the botched attempt to bomb New York City's Times Square early this month, Pakistani law enforcement sources said Tuesday.

[shukla]

Pakistan army pays heavy price in Taliban war

Retired army captain Zafar Tajammal dismisses U.S. demands for Pakistan to do more to fight Muslim militants as he chokes back tears.

[shukla]

Pakistan to hike defence budget to Rs 448 billion

The Pakistan government has decided to hike defence spending for 2010-11 to Rs 448 billion(Rs 24,835 crore in Indian currency), marking an increase of Rs 105 billion(Rs 5,821 crore in Indian currency) over the outlay for the current fiscal. The defence ministry had sought an increase of Rs 110 billion(Rs 5,821 crore in Indian currency) in the upcoming budget while the finance ministry allowed a hike of Rs 105 billion in view of the tight fiscal position, Advisor to the Prime Minister on Finance Abdul Hafeez Sheikh has said.

While briefing parliament's Standing Committee on Finance, Sheikh and Finance Secretary Salman Siddique said defence expenditure increased by Rs 60 billion in the current fiscal because of military operations in parts of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province and the tribal areas. An amount of Rs 343 billion was allocated for defence for the current fiscal year but the amount rose to Rs 403 billion. The parliamentary panel was informed that defence expenditure had increased because of the tense situation in border areas.

[Samay]

$5.5 bn only on salaries

[arun]

X Posted. The Jihadi doctrine lives on.

Dig deep enough and you find TFTA army involved in NY failed bum attempt

Pakistan arrests army officer linked to Times Square bomb suspect

Pakistan Investigators have arrested a Pakistani army major linked to the prime suspect in the botched attempt to bomb New York City's Times Square early this month, Pakistani law enforcement sources said Tuesday.

Notwithstanding official Pakistani Military denials that no Pakistani Army Major has been arrested for associating with Faisal Shahzad, the LA Times, citing US investigators continues to insist that a Pakistani Army Major was involved. LA Times also says that the Army Major involved is a serving, not retired officer:

Evidence mounts that Pakistani major spoke to Times Square suspect

[arun]

X Posted.

The Islamic Terrorism supporting Jihadi doctrine of the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan seems to be in fine fettle with yet another demonstration of the “Jihad fi Sabilillah” or “Jihad in the path of Allah” portion of the Army motto.

Saeed Ansari spokesperson for the National Directorate of Security (NDS), Afghanistan’s Spy Agency, links the May 18 suicide bombing of a NATO convoy that among others killed an American and a Canadian Colonel besides two American Lieutenant Colonels to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s intelligence agency the ISI:

Afghan Spy Agency Accuses Pakistan

A spokesman for Afghanistan’s intelligence agency on Monday accused Pakistan’s intelligence agency of involvement in the suicide bombing here last week that killed six NATO soldiers, including four colonels.

“All the explosions and terrorist attacks by these people were plotted from the other side of the border and most of the explosives and materials used for the attacks were brought from the other side to Afghanistan,” Mr. Ansari said.

“Of course when we say that those attacks were plotted from the other side of the border, the intelligence service of our neighboring country has definitely had its role in equipping and training of this group,” Mr. Ansari said.

[shukla]

Pakistan to receive 4 Chinese trainer aircraft

Seeking to cement its close defence ties with Islamabad, China has agreed to provide four trainer aircraft and nearly USD 9 million to Pakistan to train its armed forces.The two countries signed agreements to implement decisions made during a meeting between Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar and his Chinese counterpart Gen Liang Guangile here. China will provide the four trainer aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force. The 60 million yuan (USD 8.78 million) will be used to fund various training programmes.

The two sides discussed bilateral defence cooperation, the geo-strategic situation in the region and Pakistan's anti-terror efforts. They agreed to increase military cooperation and strategic communication at all levels to overcome challenges facing the two countries. China is the biggest arms supplier to Pakistan. The meeting also agreed to hold joint exercises by the militaries to promote and increase interaction and closer collaboration between their armed forces.

Over the years, the comprehensive partnership between the two countries has matured into a multi-dimensional "strategic cooperative partnership" that is of great importance for peace and security in the region, Gilani said. Expressing satisfaction at the progress of projects to supply JF-17 Thunder fighter jets and F22-P frigates to Pakistan, Gilani said the induction of the F22-P warship has enhanced country's capability to safeguard territorial waters.

Gilani appreciated China's decision to extend credit facilities to Pakistan’s armed forces to purchase defence equipment. He also underlined Pakistan's urgent requirements, including helicopters and night vision devices, for effective operations against militants.

Beg, borrow (and steal, when all fails) - paki philosophy..

[krishnan]

Beg , Borrow or put a gun of the head

[Jamal K. Malik]

Pakistan starts production of avionics for JF-17 Thunder jet

[shukla]

Pakistan starts production of avionics for JF-17 Thunder jet

Great.. France denial of avionics package for the JF-17 means that beg, borrow not working... wait a min.. stealing, reverse-engg still an option hmmmm or just wait for the Chinese to do all that first and buy..err.. sorry.. borrow from them... Looks like they've got plenty of options there.. I guess thats what they mean by 'self reliance'..

[Samay]

must have got it from turkey?

[Aditya_V]

Or France has sold them the Avionics and just not made it Public. We must give credit to pakis, while the Indian elite Politicians and Media are blissfully unaware of what is going on.

[Craig Alpert]

US rehearses strikes inside Pakistan: Diplomats

ISLAMABAD: US military has already completed 'dry exercises' for launching a unilateral strike inside Pakistan if a terrorist attack in America in the future is traced to that country, a media report said on Sunday.

Also known as dry run, this trial exercise is a rehearsal of a military's combat skills without the use of live ammunition, influential 'Dawn' newspaper said in a dispatch from Washington.

Quoting diplomatic sources, it said the trial run for a unilateral strike in Pakistan, however, did not involve US troops.

"Instead, it projected computer simulations of such an attack with an assessment of a possible counterattack and of the potential resistance US troops might face if they entered the Pakistani soil," the report said.

It quoted diplomatic sources as saying that the US had already informed Pakistan of its intention to conduct such an exercise before conducting the computer simulations.

Soon after the Mumbai attacks, the then Bush administration had planned live exercises close to the Pakistan border and conveyed its decision to Islamabad as well, the report said.

The US' decision forced the then national security adviser Mahmud Ali Durrani to fly to Washington for convincing the Americans that such exercises would not help the fight against terrorism.

"Instead, they would have weakened the nascent democratic setup in Pakistan and eroded its ability to support the US-led war," it said.

However, the US abandoned its move to carry out such exercises after US military chief Admiral Mike Mullen got an assurance from his Pakistani counterpart Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani that Islamabad would do its best to prevent extremists from using its soil for attacking other countries.

A diplomatic source told the Dawn that the American decision to once again explore the possibility of a unilateral military strike is not a threat.

"It aims at convincing Pakistanis that now is the time to uproot extremists. A failure to do so may lead to an attack on the US soil, which, in turn, could lead to an American military strike inside Pakistan," he said.


The report said Americans believed there were people in the Pakistani establishment who still sympathised with the jihadi elements.

While such people, according to the source, were no longer interested in protecting al-Qaida or the Afghan Taliban, "they still have a soft corner for Pakistani jihadi elements, particularly those who fought in Kashmir."

The Americans, however, "have concluded that all such groups are linked to al-Qaida, whether they are fighting in Kashmir or Afghanistan, and want all of them uprooted," the source added.

The Pakistani judiciary was also requested not to be lenient to people like Hafiz Saeed.

Diplomatic sources in Washington also observed that the decision to leak to the media the US military's plans for a unilateral strike aimed at "persuading any elements in the power structure in Islamabad to do what is needed: share more intelligence, stop insisting that there are good Taliban and bad Taliban and to get serious about uprooting all jihadi groups."

[sum]

It quoted diplomatic sources as saying that the US had already informed Pakistan of its intention to conduct such an exercise before conducting the computer simulations.

Soon after the Mumbai attacks, the then Bush administration had planned live exercises close to the Pakistan border and conveyed its decision to Islamabad as well, the report said.

You simulate attacking a country and inform it that you are doing so and the other country shouldn't mind, esp when the other country is a "most trusted ally"..

If this isn't the pits of Paki H&D, dont know what is!!!