LCA news and discussion

vina · Post by **vina** » 17 May 2010 12:34

Just got buzzed again 2 mins ago. Could clearly make out 2 white drop tanks, missiles in the outboard stations and I think air to air refueling probe (please, I wear glasses , the plane is not THAT low so don't hold me to it. Does any panwallah /chaiwallah know if the LSP-3 has the A2A refueling probe in it ?.Is that in the IOC capability roadmap ?

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 17 May 2010 14:09

A few weeks back I saw a il-7x(not sure if it was the tanker) make an approach followed a few minutes later by a tejas. But If refueling has been achieved I suspect we would have had a big press release.

vcsekhar · Post by **vcsekhar** » 17 May 2010 15:12

they could have been trying dry contacts and stuff like that to work up to a full wet contact and fuel intake.
Maybe they will announce only after a successful A2A refuel.

Lets hope for more good news and some pics.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 May 2010 18:30

vina wrote:Just got buzzed again 2 mins ago. Could clearly make out 2 white drop tanks, missiles in the outboard stations and I think air to air refueling probe (please, I wear glasses , the plane is not THAT low so don't hold me to it. Does any panwallah /chaiwallah know if the LSP-3 has the A2A refueling probe in it ?.Is that in the IOC capability roadmap ?

Dang! And I thought I was seeing things from the golf course. I was thinking " I need glasses". That machine appeared to have a refuelling probe. By the time I could try and concentrate on that the angle had changed and I could not spot the probe again. I saw the drop tanks and also what appeared to be an under-fuselage Litening pod on the left side

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 17 May 2010 19:01

Always wanted to see the LCA Tejas with the refuelling probe, I hope we can get a few pictures soon

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 17 May 2010 19:47

shiv wrote:
vina wrote:Just got buzzed again 2 mins ago. Could clearly make out 2 white drop tanks, missiles in the outboard stations and I think air to air refueling probe (please, I wear glasses , the plane is not THAT low so don't hold me to it. Does any panwallah /chaiwallah know if the LSP-3 has the A2A refueling probe in it ?.Is that in the IOC capability roadmap ?
Dang! And I thought I was seeing things from the golf course. I was thinking " I need glasses". That machine appeared to have a refuelling probe. By the time I could try and concentrate on that the angle had changed and I could not spot the probe again. I saw the drop tanks and also what appeared to be an under-fuselage Litening pod on the left side

Shiv ji, can you carry your camera along with the golf clubs, the next time you go golfing?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 May 2010 20:02

well at this stage its logical and entirely feasible to quality for AAR - it doesnt need much acrobatics or avionics, just the ability to fixate on the Midas from a long way using some IFF vodoo tricks and then fly straight and level for the thing - our test pilots from fighter streams already know it,

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 17 May 2010 21:13

I saw that, and thought it was a Jaguar in green paint

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 May 2010 21:18

nachiket wrote: Shiv ji, can you carry your camera along with the golf clubs, the next time you go golfing?

Nachiket the whole world is against me.

The IAF hides its aircraft when I am standing at the top of the runway on the 7th tee box and all these ITvity fellows wait on side roads in their cars till I pull into the road and then proceed to block it.

More seriously the aircraft pass overhead in about 5 seconds - less time than I have to pull out a (phone) camera and turn it on.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 17 May 2010 21:29

vina wrote:Just got buzzed again 2 mins ago. Could clearly make out 2 white drop tanks, missiles in the outboard stations and I think air to air refueling probe (please, I wear glasses , the plane is not THAT low so don't hold me to it. Does any panwallah /chaiwallah know if the LSP-3 has the A2A refueling probe in it ?.Is that in the IOC capability roadmap ?

I saw that.I saw that.I saw that....full complement of loads on the wings. White EFT and what looked like AAM. Angle was such that could not make out the probe

.....but seriously, did anyone hear that afterburner? Steep climb and those F-404 going full blast....awesome. Like the deep throated roar of a lion....

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 17 May 2010 21:33

All you b'lore jingoes need to get some videos. Us people not in bengaluru are mucho

hearing about you peeps getting buzzed by the Tejas!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 May 2010 21:52

tsriram wrote:All you b'lore jingoes need to get some videos. Us people not in bengaluru are mucho hearing about you peeps getting buzzed by the Tejas!

To be honest we are like Pakis jerking off after seeing a female ankle. In terms of visibility and entertainment, teh place to see the LCA is Aero India. Outside of Aero India I have seen the LCA at least a dozen times (Since Feb 2009) but the total time cannot have been for more than 60 seconds max because that plane does not wait for anyone. It just roars past before you can react.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 17 May 2010 22:41

shiv wrote: To be honest we are like Pakis jerking off after seeing a female ankle.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 May 2010 03:31

U.S. Industry Hit By LCA Clearance Problem

...
India selected Lockheed Martin as the winner of a bid for consultancy work on its naval LCA, but failure to secure U.S. State Department licensing approvals — at least in a timely fashion — now has resulted in EADS being in negotiation for the work.
...
...
The naval LCA is being designed for short take-off, but arrested recovery (Stobar), with a first flight of the naval variant by December.
...
...
The consultancy on the naval LCA involves auditing the aircraft’s current configuration and optimizing the aircraft’s landing gear and arrestor hook design. The intent is also to reduce the aircraft’s all-up weight by around 1,000 lb.

Sources involved with the program indicated that Lockheed’s inability to begin the consultancy on time had impacted the development effort, but the program itself was on schedule and progressing well. When ready, the naval LCA will primarily operate off Indian-built aircraft carriers, the first of which is under construction in Kochi.
...
...
The sources also said that with almost all of the LCA’s equipping and cabling complete, the first prototype is scheduled to roll out of its hangar by mid-July. Three months of integration tests will follow, including ground vibration tests, structural coupling tests and other test routines before a first ground run and taxi test scheduled for October. If all goes well, the first prototype will fly in December.
...
...
Program officials admit that there have been multiple challenges in the design and configuration of the landing gear and arrestor hook assembly, especially in optimizing the aircraft’s sink rate, but were confident that it would prove itself during flight tests.

Apart from conventional takeoff and landing tests, the aircraft will undergo short takeoff and arrested landing tests at the Shore-Based Test Facility under construction at the Indian naval air station in Goa.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 May 2010 03:31

deleted - duplicate post

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 18 May 2010 07:29

We again and again commit the same mistakes. The Naval LCA will be delayed by another decade.
Similarly ISRO is said to take U.S help with India's manned space mission.
Now it's better to believe that an Indian will never be in space for the next 50 years.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 May 2010 09:39

we should have pulled in Dassault for this, even if 3x more expensive. atleast no such "clearances" needed. they have the super etendard and rafale to their credit. both successful naval fighters.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 18 May 2010 15:46

someone is roaring overhead, couldnt see due to thick clouds, seems like taking loops

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 18 May 2010 15:50

Yes-sounds like some sort of envelope testing....very little time between the turns....

ravi_B · Post by **ravi_B** » 18 May 2010 16:14

this is my first post after 2 years of reading in BR.

can someone enlighten me, AOA does LCA had done till now? as per new ASR, IAF have asked for 22 AOA right?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 May 2010 16:57

ravi_B wrote:this is my first post after 2 years of reading in BR.

can someone enlighten me, AOA does LCA had done till now? as per new ASR, IAF have asked for 22 AOA right?

Sorry. I am unable to answer your question. But here is an article by a person who has some interesting views on AOA under the sub heading "Limitless High Alpha" - on the page numbered 93

http://rapidshare.com/files/377207669/c ... impler.pdf

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 18 May 2010 18:36

If I recall correctly, one of the officials, at the Aero India 2007 had said LCA has done 24 deg AOA. But during the show, they had restricted to 19 deg.

RonyKJ · Post by **RonyKJ** » 18 May 2010 19:28

ravi_B wrote:this is my first post after 2 years of reading in BR.

can someone enlighten me, AOA does LCA had done till now? as per new ASR, IAF have asked for 22 AOA right?

This is your first post after 2 years and you don't even bother to review what you have written before you post?
Please learn to frame a proper question before asking one if you expect someone to actually reply to it.

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 18 May 2010 20:11

don't be harsh on him , we at BR are used to people asking us same question related to Tejas zillion times .

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 18 May 2010 20:13

RonyKJ - are you a forum moderator?

ravi_B · Post by **ravi_B** » 18 May 2010 20:33

@RonyKJ
sorry yaar, after writing it, i found a mistake, dont know how to edit it, so left it. any ways, my english is not good....i am poor I agree.

please understand and reply....
my question was simple, why LCA did only 20 AOA, i heard most of aircrafts capable of doing 28...bla bla....is there any issue with design or.....

Most of the people say LCA is in league with 4.5 gen aircrafts but i dont understand why flight envelope is restricted to only 20 or 22 max?? i searched for more info in google, I did not find any info...that had madeup my mind to ask this question.

though I dont understand this defence jargon still, I like reading....I am in IT sector....

@all
My another question, LCA did not even pull +8G is it true? it had pulled only 6G? am I corect? if so, can someone enlighten if there is any design prob or still flight envelope not expanded, was it the reason for Consultancy from EADS??

Guys...iam like a kid here(Knowledge wise) before you all, please dont pul me down on my first post itself...let me learn with u all....

Thanks

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 May 2010 20:44

Rony, his question is a valid one, very few know the situation clearly, I'll be the first to admit that I don't. the AoA business is as confusing as anything since we keep getting conflicting reports.

@ all, please, no more on this.

ravi, LCA is a FBW controlled aircraft, the opening up of the envelope is much more driven by the FBW than the raw aerodynamics of the aircraft itself. as it is LCA is overengineered for safety measures, structurally it will probably be able to pull off G's even beyond 9 but the designers can't risk it till the FBW can handle those maneuvers. since it is our first attempt at FBW they are understandably cautious.
a crash like the gripen had would probably sound the deathknell for the program.
the EADS consultancy is to open up the envelope quickly without taking undue risks. since they already know the route that needs to be followed, team LCA can save time by not going trial and error. in return they get a hefty fee.

p.s. editing is simple, click this button

below your post.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 18 May 2010 20:53

I remember couple of people mentioning here that the full flight envelope has been opened for LCA. That would mean the designed AoA of 25 degrees, max G of 9G and max speed of 1.6mach at designed altitude, and max altitude of 15kms has been tested, right?

ravi_B · Post by **ravi_B** » 18 May 2010 21:00

txs rahul for clarification...Reason for asking that question was, I read 2 forums, defence.pk & BR. In defence.pk, people always bash on LCA with "did LCA pull more than 6G" or "did LCA had more than 17 AOA". I think, people here are reliable & professionals, that why i posted here. Actually I did not like those TSP people who are bashing on OUR Beauty...that made me angry and thought of getting more info......

In my entire office, No one knows about our LCA beauty...i do lot of propaganda about our beauty....i feel pride....

ravi_B · Post by **ravi_B** » 18 May 2010 21:05

@putnanja
but there was no official confirmation on that regard I gues?

it would be better if someone can get more info from reliable sources...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 May 2010 21:19

IIRC the last word we had on this was from ADA Director PS Subramanium in ~ sep 2009 that full envelope for IOC was to be opened by dec 2009.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 18 May 2010 22:15

ravi_B - we really do not waste time with defence.pk. I would suggest you to not raise that on BRF if you intend to remain active here. How does it matter that they think that LCA envelope is not fully expanded? They only will be shown the "tandav" of the Tejas.

It was mentioned that in the clean configuration the entire envelope was opened. Also, do not expect to find all secrets online.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 May 2010 22:26

shiv wrote:
http://rapidshare.com/files/377207669/c ... impler.pdf

Wonderful read! thanks Shiv!

sathyaC · Post by **sathyaC** » 18 May 2010 22:28

Bit out of topic
Our LCA is
relaxed static stability
unstable aircraft design
But does our Pak's JF17 have this feature

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 18 May 2010 22:30

^^^
did you read the very first post of this thread ? point 'a' ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 May 2010 22:32

sathyaC wrote:Bit out of topic
Our LCA is
relaxed static stability
unstable aircraft design
But does our Pak's JF17 have this feature

SathyaC - I am sure you can find the answer for yourself on the net. Please do not bring it into the LCA thread on BRF. Take it the Chinki thread or intl aviation thread. TIA

ravi_B · Post by **ravi_B** » 18 May 2010 22:40

all,i know about LCA(AOA and G figures are not provided, as no article is confirming) ...i came here to know facts as gurus can teach me...now as full envelope is opened as told by rahul/vivek, i am convinced...txs for educating me....

satya please leave it..i am not here for comparision. I want to knw more about our LCA thats it.

RonyKJ · Post by **RonyKJ** » 18 May 2010 23:28

Vivek K wrote:RonyKJ - are you a forum moderator?

If you look at my post, on the left hand side column, under my name, it says that I am a BRFite trainee.
I hope that answers your question.

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 18 May 2010 23:34

putnanja wrote:I remember couple of people mentioning here that the full flight envelope has been opened for LCA. That would mean the designed AoA of 25 degrees, max G of 9G and max speed of 1.6mach at designed altitude, and max altitude of 15kms has been tested, right?

I remember reading something that suggested max g and aoa is only needed to be opened at the time of foc.

edit : here's the link

http://www.drdo.org/dpi/ADA.pdf

aditya.agd · Post by **aditya.agd** » 19 May 2010 00:01

iaf should order more aircrafts to make LCA program successful. Gradually we can make all Tejas' to mk2 standard.

Atleast IAF should fly indegenous aircraft.