Indo-UK: News & Discussion

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 24 May 2010 16:31

^^^^
Of course, dhimmi dhimmi bhai bhai..

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 24 May 2010 22:31

Mili-me is refering to the Brown-MMS economic bonhomie at global summits and hoping to bask in the reflected light
(and pretending the dhimmi thing never happened)

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 May 2010 02:46

U.K. Bans Doctor Who Linked Autism to Vaccine
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,593423,00.html

Britain's top medical group ruled Monday that a doctor who claimed autism was linked to a childhood vaccine can no longer practice in the U.K.

The General Medical Council also found Dr. Andrew Wakefield guilty of "serious professional misconduct" as it struck him from the country's medical register. The council was investigating how Wakefield and colleagues carried out their research, not the science behind it.When the research was published a dozen years ago, British parents abandoned the measles vaccine in droves, leading to a resurgence of the disease. Vaccination rates have never recovered and there are outbreaks of measles in the U.K. every year.In 1998, Wakefield and colleagues published a study alleging a link between autism and the vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella. Most of the study's authors renounced its conclusions and it was retracted by the journal in February.Many other studies have been conducted since then and none have found a connection between autism and the vaccines. Wakefield moved to the U.S. several years ago and the ruling does not affect his right to practice medicine there or in other countries.In 2005, Wakefield founded a nonprofit autism center in Austin, Texas, but quit earlier this

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 25 May 2010 02:52

Follow the money.....
MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield fixed data on autism

THE doctor who sparked the scare over the safety of the MMR vaccine for children changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism, a Sunday Times investigation has found.

Nailed: Dr Andrew Wakefield and the MMR - autism fraud

But the investigation discovered that, while Wakefield held himself out to be a dispassionate scientist, two years before the Lancet paper was published - and before any of the 12 children were even referred to the hospital - he had been hired by a lawyer, Richard Barr: a jobbing solicitor in the small eastern English town of King's Lynn, who hoped to raise a speculative class action lawsuit against drug companies which manufactured MMR.

Unlike expert witnesses, who give professional advice and opinions, Wakefield negotiated a lucrative contract with Barr, then aged 48, to conduct clinical and scientific research. The goal was to find evidence of what the two men called "a new syndrome", intended to be the centrepiece of (later failed) litigation on behalf of an eventual 1,600 families, mostly recruited through media stories. This, publicly undisclosed, role for Wakefield created the grossest conflict of interest, and the exposure of it by Deer, in February 2004, led to public uproar in Britain, the retraction of the Lancet report's conclusions section, and, from July 2007, the longest-ever professional misconduct hearing by the UK's General Medical Council.

http://roguemedic.blogspot.com/2010/05/ ... e+Medic%29

While anti-vaccinationists claim that this is some sort of global conspiracy, the reality is much more simple. Andrew Wakefield was caught taking hundreds of thousands of pounds from lawyers to create evidence that would help the lawyers to sue vaccine companies for billions of pounds.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 26 May 2010 00:07

India is critical to the Government’s objectives, from development, regional stability and trade and investment to energy security, climate change, counter terrorism and reform of the global international systems.

The Government is committed to an enhanced partnership with India as an emerging global power, one that reflects our deep and historic ties and recognises India’s strategic importance.

We need to better recognise India’s rising global influence and work closely with the Indian government to address the many challenges facing South Asia, such as terrorism and extremism. We also need to engage with India’s economic potential in a way that promotes both Indian and UK interests through strengthening trade links and increased co-operation in science, research and education.

British Ministers will of course be discussing the details of the enhanced partnership with their Indian counterparts before announcing them publicly. The enhanced partnership will help us in building a genuinely special relationship between our two countries.

http://www.number10.gov.uk/queens-speec ... ndia-50700

I appreciate the new coalition for giving good space for UK India partnership in the Queen's speech. This is essential way forward for business and partnership for mutual benefit.

It would be better not to bring cuts too soon and too large scale. it may be done slowly with other supports being raised for those who would be affected.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 27 May 2010 00:48

Hague heads east for new ‘special relationship’

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 136494.ece

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 27 May 2010 03:22

UK gov't discloses size of its nuclear stockpile

LONDON – Britain offered its first public accounting of its nuclear arsenal Wednesday, disclosing that it has a stockpile of 225 warheads in a move that offers transparency to non-nuclear states in hope of winning stricter global controls on the spread of atomic weapons.

The announcement, made without fanfare in the House of Commons, follows the Obama administration's disclosure that the United States has stockpiled 5,113 nuclear warheads and "several thousand" more retired warheads awaiting the junk pile — the first public description of the secretive arsenal born in the Cold War and now shrinking rapidly.
..
...
Britain had earlier disclosed that it possessed 160 operational warheads, but Hague's comments that the country's "overall stockpile of nuclear warheads will not exceed 225 warheads" was the first time the maximum size of the total stockpile was revealed. The Foreign Office later said the 225 figure was the number of warheads the country now holds.
...

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 27 May 2010 09:49

I heard on the news few days ago that a British royal was caught on tape accepting bribe. That reminded me of a discussion we had on this thread where some folks were stating that how come they never hear of bribery problem in the British society. In other words , some folks were asserting that British were above these vices and that only SDRE Indians are bribery prone. Well, I said then and I will say it again, desperate people do desperate things and any society which has large number of desperate people will have to witness unsavory actions from some if not all of those desperate people.

Read on:

(CNN) – There are new developments out of London today where the latest scandal is rocking the royals. A British tabloid has put up a Web video showing Duchess Sarah Ferguson offering access to her ex-husband, Prince Andrew, in exchange for more than $700,000.

http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/24/d ... -for-cash/

(My apology if this news has already been discussed. I wanted to talk about it here as soon as I read the news but I was very busy for past few days.)

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 27 May 2010 10:04

sunnyP wrote:
Karan Dixit wrote:I have to agree with Johan as well. It is unfortunate to portray Muslims as troublemakers in UQ. The reality is they (Muslims) are victims of a racist British society, which has completely disenfranchised Muslims (and other Colored folks) in UQ.

---

Have you picked up this paragraph from the Muslim Council of Britain's website? This is exactly the line they use whenever some young British Jihadi is caught in the midst of planning a terror attack.

I am not aware of any such website . My view is based on reading and analyzing news from UQ . Also , I have talked to several Muslim ( and other colored ) folks who reside in UQ . The picture they paint of UQ is this : It is a white dominated society which ridicules and exploits Muslims ( and other colored folks ) .

Bhima · Post by **Bhima** » 27 May 2010 10:27

Haresh wrote:Hague heads east for new ‘special relationship’

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 136494.ece

From comments section:

Timon Says wrote:
"What we need to do is stop giving foreign aid to India (and China too, for that matter)".

Wake up, stop thinking mighty Britain is some kind of mighty world player India's economy is growing at 8% a year, it has a vast market that the UK wants to tap into. China is the worlds biggest exporter and factory floor of the world. Both have burgeoning middle-classes have disposable income they would like to spend and Britain is one of a number of countries who want there companies to get a toe hold in that market.

Britain is bankrupt so stop thinking we're some kind of global superpower with cheques to write to other nations, when it's now the other way around. Have no illusions Hague will be going cap in hand at the back of a long queue and will do well to improve trade relations with the two.

Both India and China are vast continent like countries with 1 billion plus poulations, resources, influence and potential for growth Britain can only dream of.

Both are self-reliant yes there is extreme poverty in both countries for vast sums of people, as there would be in most countries with over a billion people. With time those people at the bottom of the ladder will grow prosperous thanks to the ingenuity and admirable work ethic of the peoples of both these great industrial juggernauts.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 27 May 2010 10:31

Gerard wrote:Follow the money.....
MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield fixed data on autism

This does not exonerate vaccines, however. The studies arguing against an autism-MMR link have been flawed because they did not compare unvaccinated kids with vaccinated kids. They just compared two sets of kids, both of which had received plenty of vaccines. Only thing was that for one set, the vaccines taken did not include the MMR vaccine.

Many people have already won compensation for brain-damage from vaccines:

On February 12, the federal "Vaccine Court" in Washington issued a sweeping ruling in three highly touted "test cases" against families who claimed that their childrens' autism had been caused by vaccines. The Special Masters in those three cases found that Petitioners failed to establish causation between MMR vaccines, the mercury-laced vaccine preservative thimerosal, and autism (the court decision, which is under appeal, deferred any finding on a thimerosal-only theory of causation). The rulings could have a significant precedential impact on some 5,000 families who opted to bring their cases in the Omnibus Autism Proceedings (OAP) hoping that the vaccine court would officially hold that the MMR vaccine or thimerosal had caused autism in their children.

The New York Times joined the government Health Agency (HRSA) and its big pharma allies hailing the decisions as proof that the scientific doubts about vaccine safety had finally been "demolished." The US Department of Health and Human services said the rulings should "help reassure parents that vaccines do not cause autism." The Times, which has made itself a blind mouthpiece for HRSA and a leading defender of vaccine safety, joined crowing government and vaccine industry flacks applauding the decisions like giddy cheerleaders, rooting for the same court that many of these same voices viscously derided just one year ago, after Hannah Poling won compensation for her vaccine induced autism.

But last week, the parents of yet another child with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) were awarded a lump sum of more than $810,000 (plus an estimated $30-40,000 per year for autism services and care) in compensation by the Court, which ruled that the measels-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine had caused acute brain damage that led to his autism spectrum disorder.

The family of 10-year-old Bailey Banks won their case quietly and without fanfare in June of 2007, but the ruling has only now come to public attention. In the remarkably clear and eloquent decision, Special Master Richard Abell ruled that the Banks had successfully demonstrated that "the MMR vaccine at issue actually caused the conditions from which Bailey suffered and continues to suffer."

Bailey's diagnosis is Pervasive Developmental Disorder -- Not Otherwise Specified (PDD-NOS) which has been recognized as an autism spectrum disorder by CDC, HRSA and the other federal health agencies since at least the 1990s.

In his conclusion, Special Master Abell ruled that Petitioners had proven that the MMR had directly caused a brain inflammation illness called acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM) which, in turn, had caused the autism spectrum disorder PDD-NOS in the child:

The Court found that Bailey's ADEM was both caused-in-fact and proximately caused by his vaccination. It is well-understood that the vaccination at issue can cause ADEM, and the Court found, based upon a full reading and hearing of the pertinent facts in this case, that it did actually cause the ADEM. Furthermore, Bailey's ADEM was severe enough to cause lasting, residual damage, and retarded his developmental progress, which fits under the generalized heading of Pervasive Developmental Delay, or PDD [an autism spectrum disorder]. The Court found that Bailey would not have suffered this delay but for the administration of the MMR vaccine, and that this chain of causation was... a proximate sequence of cause and effect leading inexorably from vaccination to Pervasive Developmental Delay.

The Bailey decision is not an isolated ruling. We now know of at least two other successful ADEM cases argued in Vaccine Court. More significantly, an explosive investigation by CBS News has found that since 1988, the vaccine court has awarded money judgments, often in the millions of dollars, to thirteen hundred and twenty two families whose children suffered brain damage from vaccines. In many of these cases, the government paid out awards following a judicial finding that vaccine injury lead to the child's autism spectrum disorder. In each of these cases, the plaintiffs' attorneys made the same tactical decision made by Bailey Bank's lawyer, electing to opt out of the highly charged Omnibus Autism Proceedings and argue their autism cases in the regular vaccine court. In many other successful cases, attorneys elected to steer clear of the hot button autism issue altogether and seek recovery instead for the underlying brain damage that caused their client's autism.

Medical records associated with these proceedings clearly tell the tale. In perhaps hundreds of these cases, the children have all the classic symptoms of regressive autism; following vaccination a perfectly healthy child experiences high fever, seizures, and other illnesses, then gradually, over about three months, loses language, the ability to make eye contact, becomes "over-focused" and engages in stereotypical head banging and screaming and then suffers developmental delays characteristic of autism. Many of these children had received the autism diagnosis. Yet the radioactive word "autism" appears nowhere in the decision.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f- ... 69673.html

Additional information:
Vaccines for sterilization: http://davidrothscum.blogspot.com/2009/ ... -mass.html
Vaccines for auto-immune disorders: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... &aid=14851

What is really necessary is a comparison between vaccinated and totally unvaccinated children. Here is something on those lines: http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/ ... nated.html

Fluoride (in toothpaste, drinking water) is also damaging to the brain: http://qbit.cc/fluorides-effect-on-the-brain/

Financial impropriety on the part of the "debunkers" - http://stephentvedten.blogspot.com/2010 ... ith-2.html

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 27 May 2010 15:43

Karan Dixit wrote:The picture they paint of UQ is this : It is a white dominated society which ridicules and exploits Muslims ( and other colored folks ) .

Sorry could not resist from asking. UK is going to be white dominated for a while, because they were the original inhabitants of the place. So what do the Muslims in UK want, every single white should paint their bodies in a darker shade and change their religion as well? And I have seen that there are non-whites who have stood for elections in parts of UK (and won too). If Muslims are feeling so sad in being in the UK, they still have Heathrow, Gatwick, Birmingham Airports open for traffic. All it requires is a ticket. When we are supporting these sort of ridiculous claims of the the RoP, we may be also giving unneccessary boost to "India is a Hindu dominated society which ridicules and exploits Muslims (and Dalits)" sort of arguments.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 27 May 2010 17:18

UK police state coming - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1Tr0m2gOjY

This is a secret video presentation that was made by private security contractor Blackwell & Briggs for viewing by government and elected MPs. It was somehow leaked.

This video became available on thepiratebay.org , and then the legal dept of Blackwell & Briggs wrote the dudes at thepiratebay to get it taken down.

The hilarious response of the Pirate Bay people - http://static.thepiratebay.org/legal/bwb_mail_resp.txt

EDIT: Something strange - the website that exposed this video, conspiracyforgood.com, was registered by the same registrant as blackwellbriggs.com, and that too just one day earlier. So something is fishy. Anyway enjoy the video, nicely made, they must have spent a lot of money on it.

EDIT2: The guy in the video appearing as "Sir Ian Briggs" is apparently an actor Andrew Hall - http://thelichfieldblog.co.uk/2009/10/0 ... rick-show/ . The whole thing appears to be a psy-op to discredit police-state opponents. But it's amazing that so much money is being spent on such a thing.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 27 May 2010 17:20

Karan,

I was born here and have lived in the UK all my life.
Coloured people are not ridiculed and exploited. Yes there are bigots and trouble does occur.
Sachins argument is perfectly correct, if the muslims or in fact anyone else doesn't like it, well airfares are cheap & airports plentiful.
I don't walk around fearful, head down, humilated and ridiculed. Maybe you have had some bad experiences.
The secret to being non-white in a white dominated society is confidence and aggression.
I used to work with a group of engineers, a couple of whom were BNP types.
One of them once said to me words to the effect
"We used to have an empire once, we used to rule over you, you Indians should know your place!!"

Did I hang my head in quite humilation after being ridiculed??
LIKE $UCK I DID

My reply was "we do know our place, it's right between your wifes legs!"

He never bothered me again. I don't know if this is a Punjabi thing, or the fact that I have a crew cut and some might say a rather unhealthy obsession with press ups and CQB.
Some of my Guju friends are not so aggressive, except one who is a Thai boxer.
Believe me, we do not live in fear or humiliation or ridicule.
CONFIDENCE & AGGRESSION is the key.
Also I suppose good conversational skills, one must have the ability to explain things and engage in verbal sparring.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 May 2010 20:11

In general erudite and aggressive 1st gen Indians in the UK are OK. Diffident ones feel targeted partly because politeness in the US is different from the politeness we have in India. The UK lives on Excuse me, Please and Thank you and if you use those words you are polite. You can be as idiotic s you lie but all's well as long as you use those 3 expressions. Indians often do not know when and where to use them and get told off in an arrogant way - which again is different from India where we are rarely impolite to an alien.

People of Indian origin brought up in Britain have no problem.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 27 May 2010 20:39

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/internati ... 439036.ece

A spokesperson said India, with its “enormous dynamism and potential,” would play an “increasingly important role” in meeting global challenges such as restoring economic stability, countering terrorist networks and addressing climate change.

“It is right that the U.K. should work closely with India for achieving this. The government is committed to an enhanced partnership with India, as an emerging global power, one that reflects our deep historic ties, and our shared interests in open democracy, liberal economics and effective international institutions,” the spokesperson said amid a sense that relations with India were “neglected.”

The Times quoted an aide to Mr. Hague as saying that Britain's relations with India had “lagged behind” those with China by about five to 10 years. “The truth is that this is a key relationship that has been neglected and we aim to address this,” he said.

Now William Hague making the right noises.. elsewhere he also reiterated that Britain's new coalition government will not “lecture” India and Pakistan over their relationship, ahead of an upcoming trip to Islamabad. Unlike his demented predecessor David Miliband whos lake of common sense and a bizarre sense of diplomatic row last year by linking the unresolved Kashmir dispute to the Mumbai terror attacks, and Hague signalled he would not make the same mistake.

“It will not be our approach to lecture other countries on how they should conduct their bilateral relations,” Hague told reporters in London

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 28 May 2010 03:05

I have recently learned that GOI did indeed spend quite some energy in the past few years cultivating British politicians, clearly the efforts have borne fruit. I take back my previous estimate of the conservative party's historic negative attitude towards India persisting till today

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 May 2010 04:20

Guess, UQ knows that to be able to punch Above its weight and height , Mother India's could carry it on Her shoulder.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 28 May 2010 09:21

"Indians often do not know when and where to use them and get told off in an arrogant way - which again is different from India where we are rarely impolite to an alien."

And this-failing to say those words- can be a sore point with people in countries like the UK, Canada etc. Whereas what is a sore or sticking point with the more self-aware Indians is the general lack of empathy people in these countries have for India and ethnic Indians. You might say that what bothers or offends Indians is the big issue; the Brits, Canucks et al are put off by the smaller ones, which is not to suggest that politeness is trivial or unimportant.

It's also accurate to say that foreign athletes do not encounter rudeness or 'racism' from Indian bus drivers, security guards or hotel clerks/managers- the way those Indians in the UK recently did. The complaints of athletes visiting India, from the UK, Sweden, France or Korea are almost always about sanitation, electricity breakdowns, crowds, indigestion..the usual problems of India and other poor countries!

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 28 May 2010 10:09

A brit engineer has been deputed in one of our plants.

Once after maintenance of certain place, the unwanted concrete waste to be moved and he asked one of the helpers to remove it. The sincere guy started moving it using his hands. the gora did not like it and asked to bring a spade. It took too much of time to bring a spade from a nearby store room.

The gora apni jaat pe aa gaya said 'you indians, i dont understand, you launch satellites and atomic submarines

but dont have a spade'

me said "we dont require spade to launch satellites and other such hi-tec non-brit items"

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 29 May 2010 03:06

X-posted:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8707355.stm

The National Identity Card scheme will be abolished within 100 days with all cards becoming invalid, Home Secretary Theresa May has said.
The cards were designed to hold personal biometric data on an encrypted chip, including name, a photograph and fingerprints. The supporting National Identity Register was designed to hold up to 50 pieces of information.
Some £250m was spent on developing the national ID programme over eight years and its abolition will mean the government will avoid spending a further £800m over a decade.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 30 May 2010 12:40

Muslim preacher of hate is let into Britain

THE home secretary, Theresa May, is facing a stiff test of the Conservative party’s claims to oppose radical Islam after her officials chose to allow a misogynist Muslim preacher into Britain.

Zakir Naik, an Indian televangelist described as a “hate-monger” by moderate Muslims and one Tory MP, says western women make themselves “more susceptible to rape” by wearing revealing clothing.

Naik, who proselytises on Peace TV, a satellite television channel, is reported to have called for the execution of Muslims who change their faith, described Americans as “pigs” and said that “every Muslim should be a terrorist”.

In a recent lecture, he said he was “with” Osama Bin Laden over the attacks on “terrorist America”, adding that the 9/11 hijackings were an inside job by President George W Bush.

In opposition, David Cameron and other senior Tories led criticism of the Labour government for allowing radical preachers into Britain to stir up hatred on lecture tours. While in opposition, Cameron also campaigned to get Yusuf al-Qaradawi, an Egyptian radical, banned from Britain.

Cameron and May now face a political test over Naik, whose inflammatory comments have led some moderate Muslims to call him a “truth-twister”.

One well-placed insider said: “Zakir Naik is a nasty man who makes al-Qaradawi look like a participant at a teddy bears’ picnic. He shouldn’t be allowed into the country to stir up hatred.”

The Home Office indicated that it was not planning to ban Naik, however.

Although Naik makes it clear he does not support specific acts of terrorism, his inflammatory speeches have included one, currently on YouTube, in which he states: “Beware of Muslims saying Osama Bin Laden is right or wrong. I reject them ... we don’t know.

“But if you ask my view, if given the truth, if he is fighting the enemies of Islam, I am for him.

“I don’t know what he’s doing. I’m not in touch with him. I don’t know him personally. If he is terrorising the terrorists, if he is terrorising America the terrorist ... I am with him. Every Muslim should be a terrorist.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/p ... 140235.ece

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 30 May 2010 12:45

I saw Naik on a NDTV panel once and was dumbstruck at how accepted he was despite the filth he preaches. Amazing in India where freedom of speech isn't enshrined per se, yet Islamofascist turds like him are treated with kid gloves in fear of what exactly? He has a satellite channel as well....roflmao.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 30 May 2010 14:25

Zakir Naik is the "happening" person in UK. Londonistan is quite enamored of him and has quite an audience.

lsunil · Post by **lsunil** » 30 May 2010 14:42

Do not glorify zakir naik by speaking about him. But just once...

He never debates. Instead he indulges in a "Q&A" session where there is no room for a debate. That is one of his secrets.

But he has debated at several occasions. He uses a strategy where he answers every question with a 5 min answer plus he adds his own little tailored story or theory as a case law for every answer. That case law acts as a final punch line and provokes a standing ovation from the large muslim audience. There are 8-10 sentences in that answer. What you have here is a sort of a "flood attack". I'll explain below.

Zakir's opponent, who has had one question, now has been flooded with the urge to ask several questions at once. But zakir is no rookie. This is what he does for a living. He knows he cannot argue on *one single topic* for a long time since it could reach it's a logical conclusion. So what does he do? He answers it but all of them are 1) Faraway from the actual topic 2) HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE

The opponent falls to his provocations and the topic is changed instantly. This keeps going and going and going.

But zakir has a weakness. His strength lies in the men he works with. They are the people who make the big fancy shows and the people who stage the vibe. Take zakir out of this vibe and he becomes prone to be called a hate-monger. Zakir knew he screwed up in that NDTV show. I don't think he will distance himself from his showmen ever again.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 30 May 2010 15:18

Tanaji is 400% right

Zakir Naik has a pan islamist following in the UQ, he is the true "South Asian" Zaid Zaman Hamid (PBUH).
even the Dalladeshis are in awe of ZN's skills as an orator, while in truth the only thing he does is shout at the top of his voice a full speed without giving people time to digest the nonsense he spouts.
I heard from a guy who studied in the same institution as ZN that he didn't start off as a rabid venom spewing religious nut, instead he seemed to be well read and informed person with respect for other faiths, it is only after the Wahabis started to fund him that he started to come out of his Taqqiya mode and show his true colours.
One can judge from some of his old videos that he has had an image makeover, for example those ill-fitting suits that made him look like a scare-crow have been replaced with Short-cut Azizesque TFTA Armani suits.
Having said that why deprive people in UQ of his "verse no 9211, para no 12, line no 420 " entertainment

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 30 May 2010 18:25

Murugan wrote:A brit engineer has been deputed in one of our plants.

Once after maintenance of certain place, the unwanted concrete waste to be moved and he asked one of the helpers to remove it. The sincere guy started moving it using his hands. the gora did not like it and asked to bring a spade. It took too much of time to bring a spade from a nearby store room.

The gora apni jaat pe aa gaya said 'you indians, i dont understand, you launch satellites and atomic submarines but dont have a spade'

me said "we dont require spade to launch satellites and other such hi-tec non-brit items"

a hundred years ago, an engineer in england would expect a (gora) mazdoor to also clear the concrete with his bare hands and not worry too much about spades, etc., or indeed if he fell into the machinery

about fifty years ago, the mazdoor class in britian acquired political power and with it a modicum of respect, such that engineer sahib can not only not expect immediate compliance, he is also brought up to think of spades, washing facilities, bandages and helmet so that the 'dignity of labour' is better honoured..., etc., the mazdoor himself will also simply not do it if he perceives it to be somehow not right.

in short the cultural ethos has changed and class distinctions have blurred. In India, that is still not the case - so what to you might seem simple, to him would go against the grain of his upbringing. Now before everyone tells me how brits used to treat indians again, i will repeat that this change has occured within the last few decades and is a very new thing

jaibhim · Post by **jaibhim** » 30 May 2010 23:53

I was given to understand in one youtube video he also said he was not against India. Well to counter one you need another. Probably that is why the agencies are keeping quiet. The bottom line is that he does not betray India and selective interpretation of words does not fuel a perverted campaign towards heaven in India! The greatest strength India has is the freedom of speech and that is why varun and all sorts of messiahs can subsist or even thrive possessing perhaps a freedom that is more equal to them than for other people. If he is one of those who wants to vitiate the atmosphere in the UK and making the many more little kingdoms founded on annihilation of the kafir worser than they are now, an army ready to crush India and fight for the cause of azadi and the murder many for an even greater cause, then he must not be allowed at any cost. Hope the government makes its mind up based on fair judgement and reason.

The west has also got it wrong, it was to self centered about its assumptions and ethnocentric and orientalist and would come out with a sob story in the guardian just to underline its empathy. But when terror which India cried long back, began to hit back, its promotes a rage of responses. One must arrive at a judgement after careful and rigorous study suspending judgement and preconceived assumption.
On another note, I was awestruck in the way thanks to the queens speech was given. Full of sarcasm, intellect [one needs to have intelligence to catch the barb when the gentleman from bath spoke of his counterpart from the london commuter districts] and done in a very dignified way unlike the lok sabha[which if not watched out will go to fulfill the jhollawallahs and the lady's lament in the guardian as a pig sty] where there will be no business for hours.

Bhima · Post by **Bhima** » 31 May 2010 02:11

sunnyP wrote:Muslim preacher of hate is let into Britain

When I go into work tomorrow I know he will be the subject of discussion so I decided to do some research to find any plus points for why he should be allowed in the UK. Turns out the only plus point is he is from India. It is tragic as I would expect a Muslim leader from India to be more relaxed and flexible in his religious views rather than so fundamentalist and uncompromising. Here is a video that sums him up in one.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 31 May 2010 03:44

Bhima wrote:
sunnyP wrote:Muslim preacher of hate is let into Britain
When I go into work tomorrow I know he will be the subject of discussion so I decided to do some research to find any plus points for why he should be allowed in the UK. Turns out the only plus point is he is from India. It is tragic as I would expect a Muslim leader from India to be more relaxed and flexible in his religious views rather than so fundamentalist and uncompromising. Here is a video that sums him up in one.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/672
Ali Sina had challenged Mr Naik for an internet debate which never happened.
Ali Sina has challenged many ROP scholars and said that he will remove his website if he is defeated. He still is going pretty strong.

Boasting is free. I am ready to dispute the “truth” presented by Dr. Naik even if his highness does not think I am worth debating. I invite anyone of his fans to send me the most convincing arguments presented by this gentleman and I will refute them and post them in my site.

I have also written to him an open letter and have challenged him. He has declined pretending superiority and hiding in his shell of haughtiness. He runs a business and makes good money selling religion to gullible. He is not after the truth. He is a businessman and he is wise enough not to kill the goose that lays the golden egg by debating with me and ruining his reputation.

Dr. Naik is not a scholar. There are many Muslim scholars but this doctor is not one of them. He is a showman. He likes flashy presentations but nothing deep and scholarly.
Muslims kill those who criticize Islam. Then what is the purpose of debating with him. He is not an important person. I only posted these letters here because people like you keep asking I should debate with him. I want them to see it is he who has no guts to do such thing. I am always ready.

Dr. Naik is a master magician. His props are words. He can pull rabbit out of his skullcap with his words and effectively give the impression of winning even when the reverse is the case. I want Dr. Naik to beat my argument and not my oratory skills. Oratory is an art. I have not mastered it and I am not interested in it.
Despite all that, I have expressed my readiness to confront Dr. Naik in person and in public, even if that public is in Pakistan, provided he refute me in writing first. I am bending backwards to accommodate your demand. He relies on his showmanship skills. He knows that without it he is helpless. It is like taking the props of a magician away from him and then asking him to perform his magic. He can’t. Just as a magician cannot perform any magic without his props, Dr. Naik is speechless without his showmanship skills. There is no content in what he says, it is all how he says it that makes the impact on his less than educated Muslim audience.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 31 May 2010 03:50

I heard Ali Sina was going to have a debate with Montazeri a few years ago, did that ever take place?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 May 2010 04:03

The problem with Zakir Naik types is that even educated Muslims think he is logical. And his quoting Indian scripts making these idiots to go gung-ho.

Unfortunately the likes of Pt. Ravisankar types (gentle creatures) are no match for Zakir Hussains of this world. I wish the Nayakuddins of this world (there are many) take on Zakir Naik on live TV so that he is put to rest for good.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 31 May 2010 04:11

Zakir Naik is well respected by all types of muslims, in India he has a celebrity like following. The MB networks love him, the normal muslim as well as the extremist types.

I wonder if any of his followers have half the brain to really think about some of the things he says and the evidence he uses. And you know what, his channel Peace TV is extremely successful and is even the subject of discussion by ISKON guru's/preachers - all of course don't have very nice things to say about his preaching.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 31 May 2010 14:22

Karan Dixit wrote:I am not aware of any such website . My view is based on reading and analyzing news from UQ . Also , I have talked to several Muslim ( and other colored ) folks who reside in UQ . The picture they paint of UQ is this : It is a white dominated society which ridicules and exploits Muslims ( and other colored folks ) .

Could you please give us some examples so we may better understand the opinion

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 31 May 2010 15:27

Carl_T wrote:I heard Ali Sina was going to have a debate with Montazeri a few years ago, did that ever take place?

From http://www.faithfreedom.org/672

You may also want to tell him that I have had debates with more important personalities than him such as Grand Ayatollah Montazeri and others, These debates are posted in the debates page of my site. Not a single person has won the debates with me, not because I am a highly skilled debater, but because I debate from the position of strength. It is easy to win when you speak the truth and your opponent does not.

I havent actually found that debate though

asprinzl · Post by **asprinzl** » 31 May 2010 16:15

I have seen countless testimonies of Hindus converting into Islam thanks to Zakir Naik's TV evangelization. Are there any Hindu religious network that caters to converting Muslims into Hinduism?
AS

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 31 May 2010 16:27

asprinzl wrote:I have seen countless testimonies of Hindus converting into Islam thanks to Zakir Naik's TV evangelization. Are there any Hindu religious network that caters to converting Muslims into Hinduism?
AS

1) Pl provide source of the above "hindus converting to islam", especially due to zakir naik's TV evangelization.

2) Hindus dont convert others non-hindus - this may be another definition of hinduism.

Conversion is strict no-no and it is not encouraged. There are few institutions though who may welcome people of other faiths and these people may eventually become hindus.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 31 May 2010 16:32

asprinzl,

I have personally known about 5 moslems who have abandoned islam.
I have been "intimately" (if you know what I mean) aquanted with 2 moslem girls, the women are the weakness of islam, because they know the reality of it for women.
One tried to convert me, saying she would rather marry a non pak/moslem and convert them to islam. To which my reply was, "but would they not end up being all she find bad about islam.
The other was quite open in her contempt for islam.

Because of the social sanctions against those who leave the faith, most apostates just keep quite about it.
They may appear moslem on the outside, but they can hide what is in their hearts.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 31 May 2010 17:33

Tanaji wrote:
Carl_T wrote:I heard Ali Sina was going to have a debate with Montazeri a few years ago, did that ever take place?
From http://www.faithfreedom.org/672

You may also want to tell him that I have had debates with more important personalities than him such as Grand Ayatollah Montazeri and others, These debates are posted in the debates page of my site. Not a single person has won the debates with me, not because I am a highly skilled debater, but because I debate from the position of strength. It is easy to win when you speak the truth and your opponent does not.
I havent actually found that debate though

I read about it in detail, about the proposed debate, about 4-5 months ago. As far as I remember, this debate never occurred cause Zakir naik kept insisting that he would only debate, or take questions, when in a public meeting. To which Sina replied that he wasnt fool enough to debate him with thousands of his supporters being around. He said that he wouldnt be safe between those bloodthirsty goons.

Edit: Sorry. You werent asking about his debate with Naik, but rather with Montazeri.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 31 May 2010 17:47

"Because of the social sanctions against those who leave the faith, most apostates just keep quite about it.
They may appear moslem on the outside, but they can hide what is in their hearts."

What you say is absolutely confirmed by the experiences of an individual on an Indian forum; he cannot openly admit that he has left Islam, because of the real danger of persecution or ostracisation.

Interestingly, even with the "Hindu nationalist" organisations, if someone openly admits to leaving Hinduism, he won't be persecuted or shunned; what upsets them as well as Indians who are not in the Hindu organisations, are unprincipled, inarticulate, bigoted denunciations of Hinduism by proseltizers or neo-converts. However, even these people are not persecuted in a general sense, if they are law-abiding and supportive of India as a country. It also depends on which religion the apostate or convert is going to. There will be more controversy about conversions to Islam and Christianity and denunciations of Hinduism from their vantage points, than from Buddhism, Sikhism or Jainism. And being openly atheistic or agnostic is not a problem at all in India, provided the concerned person does not single out Hinduism for criticism/ridicule of the God concept. But even if he does, there won't be any Saudi/Pakistani/Islamic style persecution that follows.