INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 02 Jun 2010 00:23

Looks like Amur with VLS and a stretch for accommodation of reactor unit.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Jun 2010 00:48

SNaik wrote:Looks like Amur with VLS and a stretch for accommodation of reactor unit.

yes it does look quite like an Amur from up front and the general contour is similar, but can't tell much about the rear of the sub from the picture..

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 02 Jun 2010 00:56

That white line could be the sea water line.

Plimsoll line? Looks like it.

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Jun 2010 02:02

SNaik wrote:Looks like Amur with VLS and a stretch for accommodation of reactor unit.

Yep Kilo family indeed , infact the yellow/white patch on top of the fore section is very similar to the Kilo.

Here check the plate of the fore section slightly different shade (Navy watermark)

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ima ... nch_lg.jpg

Arihant pic again for comparasion. (white section)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/T ... 718188.JPG

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Jun 2010 05:46

Gagan wrote:I played around with an image editing software to see if I could see anything more in that picture.

Yes I did that too and I thought I saw a vertical tail "fin"

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 02 Jun 2010 06:52

Agree with Shiv. I can see a vertical fin at the back. It is clearly visible in the photo in Shiv's post. However, though I can make out the hump, it doesn't come out as clearly in Gagan's photo. Gagan Bhai, are you sure you don't have the original?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 02 Jun 2010 06:59

Okay what does it all mean? Why release a picture now, why not with the coconut?

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 02 Jun 2010 07:05

Probably because the second fish is about to slip in the water and there is confidence about the reactor. That is obvious isn't it?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 02 Jun 2010 07:17

It has been to sea, meaning the US knows its dimensions and has high resolution pics. So what is the harz in Indians getting a glimpse.

I would conclude thus.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 02 Jun 2010 08:19

Shiv,

I see something like a vertical fin also if I gray scale and invert the image (aka negative it). It is after the contour at the end of the boat. Maybe I am hallucinating but what the heck. It's still cool. The open missile tube is quite evident. I bet someone with brains (not me) can measure the size of the tube.

Patrick Cusack · Post by **Patrick Cusack** » 02 Jun 2010 08:35

Based on the person standing on the deck - it is a lot larger than Kile almost Los Angeles size. Also, it is definitely in the 11000 tonne range and there are 2 reactors for sure.

vardhank · Post by **vardhank** » 02 Jun 2010 08:38

@ Gagan

uncanny rendering

if the aug 2009 date given in the details is correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arihant_1.jpg

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jun 2010 09:08

to me its general shape and looks matches the ohio much more than amur. due to tall tubes the missile section is likely oval cross section as in ohio.
the delta class also has those big fins on the sail...
the front end torpedo room was patched in from kilo/amur going by external looks. makes sense - proven ushus sonar, kilo torpedo eqpt -> less headache.

hoping for better pix soon.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Jun 2010 09:15

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Jun 2010 09:22

^ Shiv ji I hope that the thing labelled as 'hatch' is indeed a hatch only and not a boxy raised platform for the VL tubes.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jun 2010 09:24

sure looks like a long sub. 100m+ range. not one of those starved looking UK trafalgar ssns trying to make a virtue out of being small and super-cramped.

negi the hatch is open and you can see people standing nearby....there aint no delta-iv/Jin style dabba on top

once proper SSBN start coming online 2020, mashallah this design with 12 sub caliber tubes could deliver a devastating salvo of nirbhay/brahmos
at any place on the globe. the real sea denial fun will begin then. until then we have *only* a Akula or two to play with

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Jun 2010 10:18

negi wrote:^ Shiv ji I hope that the thing labelled as 'hatch' is indeed a hatch only and not a boxy raised platform for the VL tubes.

If it is - there will be only one missile. I guess it had better be good hain?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 02 Jun 2010 10:40

sanjaykumar wrote:Okay what does it all mean? Why release a picture now, why not with the coconut?

IE to carries the same pic of Arihant.
Hope the article answers the timing question
UPA report card surprise: A look at n-submarine

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 02 Jun 2010 11:37

Arun In India Forum has posted that Arihant is not withdrawing power from Nuclear Plant but from on board Power source ... Here is what he is saying

"Arihant is being tested using on board power source and not the main N power plant.

Yes the main power plant rating is much higher than earlier anticipation.

In terms of speed it will match the top speed of Akula"

ya but of course putting up a pic in there report UPA has indeed hinted that things are rather heading progressively

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2010 12:45

Drawing based on the picture of the arihant.

Sorry for the larger size:

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 02 Jun 2010 13:46

for comparision here are Sundeep Unnithan's scatch drawn during the launch ..(from livefist)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 768086.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 769205.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 770094.jpg

Frontline Cutaway..

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/S ... 702502.jpg

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2010 14:01

Sandeep Unnithan's drawings are the most accurate. He has a good eye for detail, and can draw accurately as well. This was as good a job as could have been done in the limited time that the media was allowed into the yard.

I think I can see the PM in this drawing. Note the first figure on the right on top of the missile compartment

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 02 Jun 2010 14:06

There is no stepped bulge behind the bridge – it’s streamlined. The aft of the sail contrasted with the farther side of the hull is giving an incorrect impression of bulge. IN design priorities were 1. reliable powerplant 2. hydrodynamic & structurally capable hull 3. sensor fit followed by 4. weapons. Missiles were designed around the submarine and not the other way round, so no turtleback unlike others.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Jun 2010 14:16

parshuram wrote:Arun In India Forum has posted that Arihant is not withdrawing power from Nuclear Plant but from on board Power source ... Here is what he is saying

Ideally one would like to have independent corroboration of information for which there is a single point source, which can never definitely be established as accurate or inaccurate. Sometimes the same single point source can be grossly mistaken.

The Arihant has been kept under wraps and I am skeptical of odd sources of purported inside information.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Jun 2010 14:45

It is poss. to access info,I'm sure,but one would prefer for details to arrive as they are doing,as why give the enemy advance info what?!
Looking at the pic,the first striking feature is that it resembles from the bow a "big brother" to a Kilo,indicating some design commonality regarding the sonar and its layout,which is obviously much larger than that of the upgraded Kilos supposedly with an Indian designed sonar.The hull looks more streamlined and shows no major bulge abaft the fin,as in PLAN SSBNs,which in those subs slope down on either side of the sail.However,if larger missiles eventually arrive on future ATVs,we might see a hump.The sail looks as if it has had a Russian godfather(!),from one of their SSBN designs and should suffice as very high speeds are rarely used by SSBNs.A small "tusk" at the root of the forward part of the sail is customary these days with vertically oriented sails,to improve quieting.We should see more pics arriving as days go by so let's just wait and enjoy the suspense!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2010 14:47

I think this is more streamlined:

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 02 Jun 2010 14:52

Gagan wrote:So why didn't the Pakistanis get all these from their friends and masters hain ji?

I know:
1. Either it was not free
2. The pakistanis did not have foresight or vision to procure these.
3. The ghoos money was not enough, or that ghoos was not properly negotiated.
4. The west was not willing to give that tech to the pakistanis - there goes the bosom buddy line.

Either way, why cry now? Are the Chinese holding back on giving you that leaking rust bucket, radiation spewing Xia class?

Maybe
Mandarin to Urdu translators are on strike

Green colored painted suitable for underwater is not available

K

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Jun 2010 14:55

I can see a streamlined bulge, not a step, and have marked it with an arrow

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 02 Jun 2010 15:05

Gagan wrote: But the photo quality sucks big time. It is not helped by the sodium lamps inside the covered dockyard, and strong sunlight on the outside. Perhaps the phtographer's equipment could have been better. They should get Kedar Karmakar to do a photo walkaround the sub.

Maybe the lights are kept on purpose some that the details are not very clear and visible

K

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jun 2010 15:11

what is this SSBN ? doesnt look like jin to me. delta?

http://img3.cache.netease.com/photo/000 ... N80001.jpg
http://img4.cache.netease.com/photo/000 ... N80001.jpg

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2010 15:15

No no, the lighting inside the yard is like this onlee (As in we are like this onlee)
The image itself published by shiv aroor was probably a smaller image, which has been resized to a larger size, hence a lot of pixelization on the image.
I wonder if the photographer did a white balance of his camera to adjust for the sodium vapour lamps inside the yard.
Perhaps this has been taken from a consumer digicam, not a professional digital SLR?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2010 15:17

Singha wrote:what is this SSBN ? doesnt look like jin to me. delta?

http://img3.cache.netease.com/photo/000 ... N80001.jpg
http://img4.cache.netease.com/photo/000 ... N80001.jpg

Russia's new Borei class SSBN. It is going to replace the Delta class. The delta class are the main nuclear delivery subs of the Russian Navy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borei_class

Notice its reverse angled conning tower. It looks like " |____/ "

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 02 Jun 2010 15:19

[offtopic]

Guys dont forget the gr8 news in LCA dhaga

[/offtopic]

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 02 Jun 2010 15:19

Gagan,

The hull gradually inclines upward from the bow like the Type 209/1500 below. The maximum diameter of the hull is at the missile tubes behind the sail, exactly like the Type 209/1500 image. Thereafter it tapers back sharply towards the rudder.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Imag ... umar11.jpg

The closest I can think of is a carrot/radish to explain the hull.

There is no raised turtleback because it affects hydrodynamics and IN was keen to avoid. Stealth is a submarine’s calling card.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 02 Jun 2010 15:23

I had drawn one drawing like that for the arihant, essentially it starts to slope forwards from the missile tubes all the way to the sonar up front, and then drops into a smooth curve.
And there is likely another smooth curve aft of the missile tubes until it meets the aft section of the sub.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Jun 2010 16:00

Gagan's drg. is the most accurate so far.Kudos old bean! What is an interesting feature is the uniform slope from bow to missile silos,without the unsightly humpback configuraion abaft the bow that one sees on many SSBN classes.This streamlining of the ATV's hull will definitely improve quieting and reduce noise generated by the hull form.We'll have to wait for other reports which will give us an idea of its underwater noise generation and the quietness of its reactor and machinery/

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 02 Jun 2010 16:00

There is sunshine everywhere, but not drop in the Chosen land.
No Arihant pics in the land that promised exclusive first look

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 02 Jun 2010 16:17

Gagan, your last picture is it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Jun 2010 16:48

Yes Gagan's last drawing is very close to the real thing , Great Stuff Gagan !

The pics of ATV are adequately distorted to hide the hull area which carries the SLBM , infact most stuff behind sail looks deliberately distorted

nishu · Post by **nishu** » 02 Jun 2010 17:11

The Hunt For Red October Has Started