Indian Autos Thread

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 02 Jun 2010 16:36

Ah, and about people asking advice about cars:

I realized long time ago that automobiles are something each person sees a completely different thing when looking at the same car. There is no commonality from people to people. So, taking advice can only confuse you more. Just follow your heart (and pocketbook) that's all.

bart · Post by **bart** » 02 Jun 2010 16:41

Murugan wrote:Mashalla*

a stupid question on radiator by an SDRE gavaar pulled an L&M yarn in auto dhaga!

bhailog, xylo, scorpio, safari or grande? pl one more favour ...

None. If urgent buy Innova with Airbags/ABS or wait for Tata Aria.

If you are into serious off-roading, Safari is your best bet.

sinha · Post by **sinha** » 02 Jun 2010 16:58

bart wrote:If you are into serious off-roading, Safari is your best bet.

Really? Both scorp and safari are not really serious offroaders - at best good for trail driving and occasional plunge in the bush.

Wait for Mahindra Thar or make do with Older Jeeps and Gypsies for serious offroading

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 02 Jun 2010 17:18

If you are SERIOUS in offroading, buy an import!

vina · Post by **vina** » 02 Jun 2010 18:09

Interesting story...did you promptly blame GM for all the miseries and claim a compensation for the stress and heart burn? isnt SDRE Sundaram Fasteners the leading supplier of radiator caps for GM? lack of spares in the land where it is made

The problem really was that the car was still under manufacturer's warranty. I guess, most of the car radiator caps would have standard pressure ratings /give or take a few (higher pressure, sort of okay I guess) so I was tempted to ask my dad to go to the Hyundai dealership and ask for a radiator cap from one of their models where it sits on the reservoir and if the screw threads fit, things would have been A-OK . However, that would have voided the warranty /given GM grounds to void the warranty if there was anything deeper than just the radiator cap being busted, like a cracked gasket head or something.

Really didn't want to risk that. So I had to get the radiator cap from the dealer from Bangalore.

That is really the problem with buying a NON Tata, Maruti and Hyundai car in India. There usually will be no dealership in a small town like Hosur if you have a breakdown midway somwhere.

For eg, once you pass Bangalore and are beyond Krishnagiri, if going east, the next dealer for non Tata/Maruti/Hyundai is Vellore and if going south, it is Salem. If your car goes Paki in say Ambur or at Namakkal, you need to go atleast the next 60kms one way to get to the dealer or call for a tow truck. If Tata/Maruti/Hyundai , chances are that there is a dealer right within shouting distance and you can get your repairs/service done with warranty and everything intact if a new car.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jun 2010 18:33

If it had been the inlaws, I would have been all "stratejee" of course. I would have tut-tutted and said, why dont you leave the car with the dealer in Hosur and take a taxi to come to Bangalore

>> you are planning to fight the war the conventional way and falling short. rather than calling you, they would call their
>> dear daughter and she would dial your number and let you know you were expected in Hosur within 90 mins with all
>> solution, coconut water, food, wet towels and relief car

checkmate saar.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 02 Jun 2010 19:37

safari has a dodgy reputation on quality. scorpio has poor brakes and pronounced bodyroll, my cousin lost control and kissed the divider, that thing nearly split into two. xylo also suffers from same issues. innova is okay but expensive.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Jun 2010 20:42

the xylo interior seats and plastics looked very flimsy and cheap to me. Innova is a dated design and has the solid rear axle. but if you have the budget its better than the others discussed. I dislike its noise level (diesel engine), the engine noise gets buzzy at 120kmph, its rear doesnt have a car like ride due to solid rear axle, and its rear seats and esp its third seat is too low and cramped for adult comfort. that third row seat is famous in netz as a penitents dungeon - he who comes last in the office shuttle route gets the better seats, those early have to move back there. but for 4 people its decently ok, with the rear seats folded up and used for luggage. its high ground clearance is enough for rough roads. I think its sufficiently localized now that
parts should be reasonably cheap. go for the leather upholstery for easy cleaning. if you have $$ splurge on stanley leather upholstery of your choice. they will stick a cute little badge on the rear window

we need proper minivans here to justify the name.

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 02 Jun 2010 22:01

vina wrote:
boiling radiator
The "boiling radiator" is solved not by the coolant, but by use of another very ingenious effect that is found in another SDRE device, called the pressure cooker (yeah, the Hawkins and Prestige types in the Yindian kitchen).

See if you grew up on the Premier Padminis and Ambassadors of old, if you climbed the Kodiakkanal hill, halway up, the Ambassador "cuppaxes" (as they say at the Madrassa) , while the "Maruti" 800 keeps climbing all the way, for days together without any problem.

How saar?. The secret is that just like the "as in pressure cooker, since the pressure evelates, water boils at lot higher than 100C", modern cars have a pressurized water jacket/cooling system. As the altitude increases, water boils at LESS than 100C and SDRE Ambassador "cups" , while Maruti keeps climbing.

The secret in all that is the very lowly radiator cap . It has a pressure sensitive spring in it, which keeps the system pressurized. If the pressure increases ,it opens a wee bit and the excess water overflows into the reservoir and vice versa.

To illustrate. My mom and dad were driving their new car, a Chevy Spark 2 years ago and from Krishnagiri, the engine started overheating and the temp needle went to red. No steam, no drama, no nothing. I asked my dad to open the cap and fill water. A few kilometers, same problem. They limped along by refilling water couple of times, using many liters from the roadside gas stations etc (they also managed to get Castrol Coolant, and they added coolant to the water in the required ratio as well) .

I explained to my dad that these new fangled cars were like a pressure cooker, and that the problem was most probably was with the radiator cap and asked him to check it. What was happening is that since the water is now boiling, the bubbles and it is not a liquid anymore, and so the heat transfer rate falls and hence the car overheats.

I ask him to open the hood and take a look. Dad opens the hood and declares that there is NO RADIATOR CAP like in the other cars..I said, ok, ok.. Is there a reservoir which says radiator fluid ?. Yes, he says. Okay, is there a cap on top.. Yes. yes.. Ok, I tell him that is the problem. It stuck in a funny position?. Dad says.. Dunno . Mom takes out a pin and pokes around, says she "released" something , they fit the cap back on .

The the car reached Hosur, and same problem again, temp needle goes to red, when my parents were afraid of damaging the engine and were tense and were "psyched" about it. So, I went to the Chevy dealership and bought a new radiator cap, drove down to Hosur from Bangalore and fitted the new radiator cap. That cap cost Rs 365 or so.

Waited for the temp needle to come down, got the engine turning, topped up the radiator with water and coolant, everything fine. The car came to Bangalore then went to Mysore, then on to Shravanebelgola , then back home.. No problems at all with it for all these years since.

Moral of the story.. The radiator cap is a critical piece. If it "cups" your "modern" car stops, while in the olde Ambassador, wait for sometime, fill with water and you are all set to go! In fact, many older trucks in India, I noticed, drive with no cap on the radiators at all!..

Ok here is the TFTA Massa version of it.. Intresting to compare. Happened last month. Honda Civic 99 model with 115K miles on it decided to go red line on me while driving to work.. SDRE like me decided to do something about it after I get home rather than screw up a good 2 to 3 hours of work time. Plus the car was recently serviced and all .. This is a Honda afterall. Driving back later in the evening see classic white smoke coming off the engine hood. Slow down but keep driving since it is raining now and I would just like to get home and then call the mechanic or AAA. The car gives up forward motion on my exit on a upslope stuck in the middle of Traffic. Nothing to do and dont want to get burnt alive. So I open the doors, turn flashers on (first time ever in the 16 years at Massa) grab my laptop and make for the side of the exit dodging 2 lanes of traffic. Call AAA and wait. Meanwhile amazingly 2 cars stop and 2 guys (one with a little kids in the car) help push my car to the side God Bless thier souls) ask me if I want a ride I decline and say I called AAA and they take off. Another guys makes his way walking to me to see if I ok (this guy I am not so sure if he is checking to see if my car is abandoned since I am inside the car now) but hey dont want to malign anybody..Long story later at the mechanic now - He informs me my car is fine but the radiator cap is shot hence the bubbling of the coolant on to the engine and the white smoke (by design apparently). He says this is the second Honda this month with the problem and belives it may be a parts issue with Honda. Anyway coming to the point of this story the mechanic say the coolant temp reached 360 F at which time the coolant most likely got cooked and was not able to do its job anymore. So he was worried about cylinder warpage that would be the result of the raditor cap not able to keep it pressure. So he suggests to start the car early morning and check if it runs rough - if it does I am in deep doo and lookign at a engine job running into 3 to 4K. This guy charges a lot but I trust him with all my cars. Luckly next day and so far the car has been not been running choppy and looks like I dodged a bullet. So moral of the story in desh is to watch out for this situation with damage to the car when running in red territory. Sometimes it is better to be like the ambassador and shut down to prevent damage to the engine rather than pay fat bucks just becuse of a lousy radiator cap/massa coolant that really should last 5 years or more and not give up the ghost at 2 years in Indian conditions.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 02 Jun 2010 22:32

Back when I was in Tata motors in early 00s, there were too many failures on the massa cummins engines newly intro'd. The radiator fan was electronic and would fail due to Indian heat and dust and our drivers would not care and still drive and engines would just seize eventually.

We took a heavy beating those days with so many issues due to not 'indigenizing' the massa tech.

On bikes.... I have had Yezdi, RX 100, RX 135, enfields. I just want something bigger and cruiser type to roam around before I get too old to do that. What are my options? He enticers and eliminators are too puny.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Jun 2010 22:40

vina saar, Execute your in-law stratajee at own risk onlee. As Singha saar pointed out, it will just lead to rapid escalation to your boss who will then come boiling down like the coolant which is troubling the car. In the naarth, I can picture the following conversation taking place:

(car sputters, smokes, temperature needle goes to Hot)
MIL: Kya hua? (What happened?)
FIL: #$%%@## Abhi to servicing karaya tha (I got it serviced just recently)
FIL: Daamad ji ko phone lagata hoon (Let me call my SIL)
MIL: (scornfully) pah! Woh kya karega?! Saara din office main baith ke computer pe picture banata rehta hai (aka Powerpoint/excel). Beti ko phone karo - woh zaroor iska solution nikalegi. (Pah! What will he do?! All he does is sit in front of a computer in his office and draw pictures (aka Powerpoint/Excel). Call our daughter - I am sure she will find a solution to this).

(FIL calls daughter, who calls Hapless SIL-al-strategee and orders him to be onsite with repairs, supplies and comfort food pronto)

(Hapless SIL leaves in middle of strategee session, pisses off SVP, CEO and other assorted fat cats. Reaches in-laws car panting and fixes radiator cap while in-laws sit inside car smugly enjoying lassi/cold drink).

SIL: Ab sab thik ho gaya hai na? (Everything is OK now, right?)
MIL (dismissively): Haan, thik hai thik hai (Yeah Yeah its OK)
MIL: (triumphantly to FIL): Dekha hamare beti ne saara problem solve kar diya. Maine kaha tha na ki is damaad se behtar usse aata hai. (See our daughter solved all our problems. Didn't I tell you that she knows this stuff better than this SIL).
SIL (sweat streaked, greased up and grimy in TFTA suit): @#$$%%^

--- The End ---

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Jun 2010 22:42

After an overheating episode, a coolant flush is always a good idea. And once in a while get the entire cooling system pressure tested. And best not to drive an overheating car up a slope.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 03 Jun 2010 00:03

innova is reliable. when i went to tirupathi i had an interesting talk with the driver. he says only innova fetches 50% of price even after it crosses the magical 100000 kms. also the seats in the rear are galaxies far ahead compared to sumo or qualis. atleast one would not feel claustrophobicor pukish after long travel.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 03 Jun 2010 05:17

ROLL-OUT COMPLETE. TATA PROMISES SURPRISE PROJECT

Ratan Tata and Chief Minister Narendra Modi inaugurated the Nano plant in Sanand by rolling out the world’s cheapest car on Wednesday, 19 months after Tata Motors abandoned its first-choice factory in Singur.

Stormy weather almost ruined the occasion, but the Tata Group chairman redeemed it by promising to return to Gujarat soon with a ‘surprise’ project.

“Aame Gujarat na che. Ame Gujarat ma avya hata anay haave farie ahiya avya che. (We belong to Gujarat. We visited Gujarat before, and we are here again.),” Tata said. “We hope to bring surprise investment, some new project, to Gujarat.”

The warmth between Modi and Tata was palpable as both heaped praises on each other. “He has promised to surprise me. I welcome him and his company with open arms. I hope he brings new projects to the state and contributes to both Gujarat and India’s development,” the chief minister said. “The revolution brought by Ford in the early 20th century with its small car is being replicated now by Tata with his Nano.”

The two recalled the events that brought the Nano project to Gujarat from West Bengal. “When we moved out of Singur, we were homeless. We were wandering here and there. Narendra Modi offered us a new home. He stood out among all the others in guaranteeing us whatever we needed,” Tata said.

“This (the Nano project) is the largest investment in the year of Gujarat’s 50th anniversary. Gujarat has offered us support, and we are thankful to people and government of the state.” The Tata group chairman, who withdrew the Nano project from Singur in October 2008 following a bloody land row, repeated a comment he made during one of the Vibrant summits. “I have not been to Gujarat many times. When I came here for the global summit, I said: ‘One who is not in Gujarat is stupid’. I am not stupid. I have invested here,” he said.

Modi said that Gujarat would always welcome him. “Four hundred years ago, Parsis came to Gujarat from Iran. Tata has the same feelings for Gujarat that Parsis had then,” the chief minister said. He regaled invitees of the inauguration ceremony by recounting how a one-rupee SMS brought the People’s Car to Sanand.

“This function is being organised on the land of Gujarat, in a small village near Ahmedabad. And the whole nation and world is happy and enthusiastic about the car... All this happened because of an SMS of Re 1,” he said. “Now you can see that an SMS of Re 1 can bring such a big investment.”

He said that no one imagined that the Nano would come to Sanand and that its facility would be opened in a record time.

Tata Motors took only 14 months to start the unit, which now produces more than 150 cars in a day. The vice-chairman of Tata Motors, Ravi Kant, praised Modi for giving the People’s Car a new home. “When we met Modi (in 2008), he told us: ‘The plant should not go out of India. This is our plant, and we can make it happen’,” Kant recalled.

The Sanand facility, which houses 725-acre manufacturing plant and a 375-acre vendors’ park, has the capacity to produce 2.5 lakh cars a year. It provides direct employment to 2,400 people.

Sanand is going to be automobile hub of India soon. The roads are already being ready for six laning to and from Nano plant to Kandla and Pipavav ports. Apart from Ahmedabad airport there is one more airport coming up near Dholera-not far from Ahmedabad. Many ancillary units are planning to come up soon. Hero Honda is also considering setting up their next plant here. Well done Modi..!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jun 2010 07:48

Gus, here is the website and the single seater I referred to.
http://www.royalenfield.com/Motorcycles ... c-500.aspx

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 03 Jun 2010 09:25

gurulog

dhanyavaad. it is very interesting to know about verious radiator/coolant related issues.

Driver of our office car did that mistake of fiddling with radiator cap just after stopping the overheated car and got his face and arm scalded.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 03 Jun 2010 23:34

Singha wrote:Gus, here is the website and the single seater I referred to.
http://www.royalenfield.com/Motorcycles ... c-500.aspx

Looks interesting. I already have a Thunderbird....rusting at my village home. The joy of riding it along the village roads running along sugarcane fields is the best. Sometimes, they will run sugar-making (not that frequent anymore, because mills come and take sugar to their factories) and you can get fresh sugarcane juice...

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 04 Jun 2010 14:43

Figuring out what I should get in 6 months time. Down to 3 with a trump card.
- BMW 1 series
- Audi A3
- Seat Leon

BMW 1 series:
+ Reliable. Just about right taking into account the planned kid. Mileage not bad.
Excellent pick up. No shudder at sustained 130 kmph. Resale value
- Expensive service, gets crampy with 3 adults in total.

Audi A3:
+ Very reliable. Quite comfy for family of 3. Good mileage.
Not a flashy car ( something I like) . Resale value
- Expensive

Seat Leon
+ VW parts. Good mileage. Value for money.
- Low resale. A little cramped.

Trump:
Nissan Qashqai
+ Super mileage, space , small yet spacious
- About 3K over my budget . SUV needs a attitude change ( or does it ?)

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 Jun 2010 18:32

I had a Nissan Qashkai while I was in the UK. Good car but had six gears and was a pain to go thru them. There was a lot of overlap in the torque ranges. It is probably sold under some other name in massa.

The name qashkai is the name of a persian tribe that is supposedly one who defeated the mongols or something like that.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 04 Jun 2010 18:33

Gus wrote:I had a Nissan Qashkai while I was in the UK. Good car but had six gears and was a pain to go thru them. There was a lot of overlap in the torque ranges. It is probably sold under some other name in massa.

The name qashkai is the name of a persian tribe that is supposedly one who defeated the mongols or something like that.

Gus,
I am impressed by the mileage of Qashqai. I though SUVs consume a lot more.

sampat · Post by **sampat** » 04 Jun 2010 20:08

Neela wrote:
Gus wrote:I had a Nissan Qashkai while I was in the UK. Good car but had six gears and was a pain to go thru them. There was a lot of overlap in the torque ranges. It is probably sold under some other name in massa.

The name qashkai is the name of a persian tribe that is supposedly one who defeated the mongols or something like that.
Gus,
I am impressed by the mileage of Qashqai. I though SUVs consume a lot more.

Don't have personal experience but a friend who is also an automobile mechanic has good words for Qashkai. Apparently, it has been selling really well. BTW it is cross over not SUV.

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 05 Jun 2010 16:27

Jayram wrote: Ok here is the TFTA Massa version of it.. Intresting to compare. Happened last month. Honda Civic 99 model with 115K miles on it decided to go red line on me while driving to work.. SDRE like me decided to do something about it after I get home rather than screw up a good 2 to 3 hours of work time. Plus the car was recently serviced and all .. This is a Honda afterall. Driving back later in the evening see classic white smoke coming off the engine hood. Slow down but keep driving since it is raining now and I would just like to get home and then call the mechanic or AAA. The car gives up forward motion on my exit on a upslope stuck in the middle of Traffic. Nothing to do and dont want to get burnt alive. So I open the doors, turn flashers on (first time ever in the 16 years at Massa) grab my laptop and make for the side of the exit dodging 2 lanes of traffic. Call AAA and wait. Meanwhile amazingly 2 cars stop and 2 guys (one with a little kids in the car) help push my car to the side God Bless thier souls) ask me if I want a ride I decline and say I called AAA and they take off. Another guys makes his way walking to me to see if I ok (this guy I am not so sure if he is checking to see if my car is abandoned since I am inside the car now) but hey dont want to malign anybody..Long story later at the mechanic now - He informs me my car is fine but the radiator cap is shot hence the bubbling of the coolant on to the engine and the white smoke (by design apparently). He says this is the second Honda this month with the problem and belives it may be a parts issue with Honda. Anyway coming to the point of this story the mechanic say the coolant temp reached 360 F at which time the coolant most likely got cooked and was not able to do its job anymore. So he was worried about cylinder warpage that would be the result of the raditor cap not able to keep it pressure. So he suggests to start the car early morning and check if it runs rough - if it does I am in deep doo and lookign at a engine job running into 3 to 4K. This guy charges a lot but I trust him with all my cars. Luckly next day and so far the car has been not been running choppy and looks like I dodged a bullet. So moral of the story in desh is to watch out for this situation with damage to the car when running in red territory. Sometimes it is better to be like the ambassador and shut down to prevent damage to the engine rather than pay fat bucks just becuse of a lousy radiator cap/massa coolant that really should last 5 years or more and not give up the ghost at 2 years in Indian conditions.

Those guys came out in the rain to help push your car?

Here in dilli, you would have been exposed to a barrage of mother & sister abuse if your car ever broke down in the middle of trademark dilli traffic. People will go past you glancing as if you have committed a murder in public.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2010 20:11

dilli lives in a universe all its own.

in blr one dark night after a storm, my car got stuck left wheel in a manhole hidden by the flood water , whose cover had floated away. wife and baby in back. lots of people walking along sides and a couple of bikers immediately stopped and wading into the calf deep water, they pushed my
car out in 2 mins without me having to request anyone for help!

I think that would be case in "most" cities of india. indians are weak in the hallway fake smile and "hi-hello" superficial chit chat but when the
chips are down and you *really* need them, people will help a lot. and they wont stop to ask your caste, state or affiliation

vina · Post by **vina** » 05 Jun 2010 22:41

dilli lives in a universe all its own.

Dilli is barely civilized. In terms of attitude and civic sense it has more in common with Pakiland than the other civilized parts of the universe.

I think we should hand the city of Dilli to Pakiland. Isn't hoisting the Paki flag in Dilli their biggest wet dream. They are welcome to it. The blood sucking leeches of Dilli will suck Pakiland dry in seconds. Think of it. If you want to screw Pakiland really really badly, make Dilli City the Capital of Pakiland . They will fit right in, in terms of attitude and sense of entitlement . Make both India AND Pakiland happy !. Give Dilli to Pakiland, India would be absolutely happy to get rid of those tax mooching parasites, while the Pakis would be delighted (they wont realize what they are getting until it is too late of course) get them. Great opportunity to make both happy.

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Jun 2010 23:00

Dilli bashing is no longer funny , sasura no one picks up the bait.

archan · Post by **archan** » 06 Jun 2010 05:18

vina, I came into this thread looking for news on Indian Autos. I was extremely disappointed on seeing your post which had nothing to do with Indian Autos but instead had sarcasm filled flame bait. I cannot allow this to go on. This is not only OT, but in bad taste. I have to issue a formal warning on this. Singha, I see your post evolved from discussion on traffic which can be seen to be related to autos. However it is borderline OT and as a senior member who has made great contributions to BRF, I have to say that that post did not help.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 08 Jun 2010 20:57

I browse team bhp a lot. Alhough they are very passionate about carscas such but they miss out an practicality. They seem to hate maruti suzuki.with passion wheras fiat seems to be their favorite son.

The Indian consumer is one of the most vfm conscious and buying a set of 4 wheels is a dream come true for many. When I bought Alto I.knew that I would not get ripped off during servicing and spares would be cheap.

I got 70 % of the onroad price when I sold it after 3 years. Can fiat or any other mfr guarantee that ?

I hate the supreme arrogance of fiat when the introduced uno and again shafted the indians with palio.

Atleast maruti introduced newer cars regularly. And despite being market leaders their customer service is a class.

I hate the fact that obsolete models are being introduced underestimating us so badly.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 09 Jun 2010 05:43

Guys anyone has any insight into the Hyundai Chennai affair? Is a promising sector being sabotaged by Stalinist traitors to please their paymasters or is it usual Korean ill-treatment of workers?

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 09 Jun 2010 05:49

The temptation to wade in is great...

but since I have nothing to do with Delhi, I will stay away

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 09 Jun 2010 09:01

Nayakuddin, every forum conforms to the notions of the overlords who control it. TBHP is that way because those who drive it think that way. SSC is filled with trivandrum hype/kochi hate for the same reason.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 09 Jun 2010 10:42

Nayak wrote:I hate the fact that obsolete models are being introduced underestimating us so badly.

This is done by nearly everyone, other than those that are forced to import 100% because of low volumes..it is a case of no choice...Maruti is a 'leader' in this aspect, taking 5-10 year old Jap design and giving it confusing names (Alto, Zen, WagonR, SX4 and many others mean very different cars globally unlike Indian versions) to obfuscate the matter...

Can't blame them, cost of doing business in India much higher than anywhere, cascading taxes at central, state, local levels, corruption, enormous delays and higher inventory and so on...already they are pricing it sky high, and on top of that we want best value - so the best bet is to take depreciated dies and give it new lease of life..

bart · Post by **bart** » 09 Jun 2010 11:31

Nayak wrote:I browse team bhp a lot. Alhough they are very passionate about carscas such but they miss out an practicality. They seem to hate maruti suzuki.with passion wheras fiat seems to be their favorite son.

Not exactly true. There are of course plenty of Ford and Fiat fanboys because both companies make very driveable cars. But the forum has its fair share of Maruti fanboys who are nutjobs in their own league and usually take pleasure in deriding Tata, Mahindra or other Indian companies. Whenever they cannot defend any Maruti model on technical grounds they fall back to Maruti ASS is the best blah blah etc.

The Indian consumer is one of the most vfm conscious and buying a set of 4 wheels is a dream come true for many. When I bought Alto I.knew that I would not get ripped off during servicing and spares would be cheap.

True, but the situation is changing, Maruti does not necessarily make the most VFM cars anymore. Apart from the VFM aspect however, a lot of Maruti buyers buy just because of word of mouth or what their neighbour says. This is an advantage from the times that their only competition was ambassador and fiat, however that is slowly changing too.

I hate the supreme arrogance of fiat when the introduced uno and again shafted the indians with palio.

Fiat had bad partners, then they screwed up their sales and support strategy and it took quite some time to recover. The current strategy of pairing up with Tata is a good one.

Atleast maruti introduced newer cars regularly. And despite being market leaders their customer service is a class.

I hate the fact that obsolete models are being introduced underestimating us so badly.

I will agree that Maruti customer service is very good. It is part and parcel of any Japanese enterprise. They also deserve credit for having good support even when they were a monopoly. However nowadays, Hyundai is just as good, and other Jap companies like Honda and Toyota are even better.

However on the other parts, Maruti is THE worst offender. Despite India accounting for more than half of Suzuki's profit, their attitude towards models has been absolutely pathetic. The so-called all-new 'Zen Estilo' which was launched with much fanfare was merely a model phased out in Japan, from where they bought the used dies over to India. There were several 'all-new' zens that amounted to a bit of cosmetic work and stickering.

India is the only place where so many generations of Maruti Alto hare sold simultaneously:
M800 (1970s Alto)
Maruti Zen (late 80s Alto)
Maruti Alto (90s Alto)
A-Star (current Alto)

Contrast this with Toyota or Honda who replaced superhit models with newer ones (Qualis > Innova, OHC>NHC>ANHC) and removed the outdated models from the market.

A while back, when they didn't have any diesel model and the Indica Diesel was cutting into their market share, they shamelessly lobbied with the government and the media to ban diesel engines because of 'pollution'. Now after getting a diesel engine from Fiat they have not hesitation in selling diesel cars, in fact the Swift Diesel used to outsell the Petrol one. They also play with vehicle saftety features (they don't provide Airbags on the Swift and Ritz Diesel but provide them on the Petrol), presumably because they have higher margins on the Petrol and want to promote that.

And despite India being their sole cash cow (who buys Suzukis outside of India or Japan), they cant be bothered to make cars that have enough space for Indians to sit properly in as opposed to east asians or hobbits.

Maruti has done us no favours. In fact it is India that has helped Suzuki survive and be successful, first by giving them a monopoly and then allowing them to prosper based on the legacy of the monopoly.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jun 2010 13:48

does suzuki have any cars where well fed humans can sit like say a I20, ford fiesta or ANHC? SX4 looks like a mouse pumped full of steroids not a mid sized car.

bart · Post by **bart** » 09 Jun 2010 14:06

Swift and Ritz are very comfortable for the people in the front seat if you can move the seat back. The back seat comfort is the problem. No way that 5 or even 4 people (unless they are very slim and petite) can undertake a journey of more than a few kms in comfort.

Indica OTOH has buckets of space, so much so that the leg room is comparable to 10+ lakh cars.

Figo, Polo, Punto etc are not hugely spacious but still better than Maruti.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Jun 2010 20:33

was Ritz designed that way or another car beaten out of a SUV platform? its height is enormous almost 6'

the swift hatch and dzire outsell
it by a 100:1 ratio probably.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 09 Jun 2010 20:58

Not sure if this is relevant to this thread or strike happening @ Hyundai Chennai but wanted to share this amusing anectode.

Back in desh, I had a brief stint with Toyota India. The japs were absolutely clear about no unionization of work force.

One day I was talking to an operator about an issue on shop floor and our VP (a jap) is looking frantically for some one. He approaches me and asks in broken english if I have seen certain person. I did not know who he was and said the same. After the CEO leaves, the operator asks me in Kannada:

Operator: "Yen saar, avaru gotilva nimge? (Sir, don't you know who <xxx> person is?)

Me: No

Operator: "Saar, avaru CITU South India rep saar. Avaru 7-8 factory close maadsidaare. Illi yaake union illa antha nodakke bandidaare. Naavu avara union sarikondre, lifu araam saar...yaaru muttakee agolla namna (Sir, he is CITU S.India representative. He has closed 7-8 factories. He is here to find out why there is no unionization of work force. If we join their union, no one can touch us).

I was surprised by that person's reputation. Used to reading/hear positive accomplishments of people but never like some one is responsible for closing down factories...LOL

I heard the higher management managed to track him down and got rid of him. The last I heard there is still no union at Toyota India but wanted to share the notorious reputation of CITU.

bart · Post by **bart** » 09 Jun 2010 21:47

Singha wrote:was Ritz designed that way or another car beaten out of a SUV platform? its height is enormous almost 6' the swift hatch and dzire outsell
it by a 100:1 ratio probably.

Ritz is based on the Swift platform, it is supposed to be family friendly instead of the Swift's sporty design. So the space is pretty much similar, the Ritz has a tad better utilization of space and is less claustrophobic. Other than that it has some niceties like 60:40 folding seats that are not available on Swift. But mostly its just a Swift with a different skin.

There are plenty of Ritz sold in Chennai but not as many as the Swifts.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 09 Jun 2010 21:52

Of the automotive majors in India, Suzuki and Volkswagen seem to be the ones with "we are too good for the natives" attitude. The latter initially refused to sell the VW brand and brought in Skoda (at a time when Merc and BMW were in the market) and the former since it repeatedly introduces phased out models elsewhere in India.

I would rather avoid those two brands purely for those reasons. For value for money, Tata seems to be the best bet. a few years ago, the Mahindra Logan was quite a good VFM car.

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 09 Jun 2010 23:20

swift is a chic magnet ritz is butt ugly.with the froh like design. also in the highways swift has a vice like grip.on the roads especially with michellin shoes. cant say the same about ritz. it may appeal to some it/vity prick trying to pretend to be different but it has failed miserably. the diesel is doing okay. I see quite.a few vdis on the road.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jun 2010 02:43

Hyundai resumes India production despite strike
Hyundai Motor has resumed production in India despite an ongoing strike that forced the nation's top car exporter to halt production for two days at a cost of about $28 million, a spokesman said Wednesday.

By ERIKA KINETZ
MUMBAI, India —
Hyundai Motor has resumed production in India despite an ongoing strike that forced the nation's top car exporter to halt production for two days at a cost of about $28 million, a spokesman said Wednesday.Hyundai spokesman Rajiv Mitra said there has been no resolution of worker demands for an outside union and for the reinstatement of dozens fired in the wake of violent protests. Government-brokered talks are ongoing, he said."Nothing is resolved, but the factory is clear and we can do production," he said. "There are enough people to run the shifts."Some 200 workers began a sit-in early Monday, forcing the factory to stop all operations. Police arrested them around midday Tuesday and production began around 8 p.m., Mitra said.Union leaders could not be reached for comment Wednesday.This is the fourth strike since 2008 at Hyundai's plants in Sriperumbedur, outside the growing auto hub of Chennai, in the southern state of Tamil Nadu.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/b ... ndication=