LCA News and Discussions

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Rahul M
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Rahul M »

yep, texturing is a pain isn't it ?
shiv
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by shiv »

The twin aircraft image is truly spectacular. Well done. Are those Matra Magic IIs inboard? :)
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Sanku »

Gaur, really beautiful renderings.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by prashanth »

Gaur wrote:I have made 3d model of Tejas. Here are two renders. Hope you like it. :)

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/ ... atgaur.jpg
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/ ... atgaur.jpg

Nice work bro...
OT, What mountain is that, in the background? Blends well with the fighters...
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Shalav »

shiv, down-angled nozzles will push the nose down but then that's why you have flight control software - to maintain ideal pitch angle when landing. Its not as if pitch correction will be disabled during landing.

OTOH with an up-angled nozzle the pilot will be striving to maintain the 10% safety gap between V(stall) and V(touchdown). Which will mean a higher landing speed and thus a longer braking and roll distance.

Short landings with TV nozzles are what we are discussing - no?

In any-case I suspect we will find out soon enough when an MKI or some other TV aircraft does do a short field landing.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Shalav »

Gaur,

amazing renders.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Gaur »

RahulM: I see, a fellow 3d artist! :)

Shiv: No. The missiles on outermost pylons are r-73 and the other 2 are python-5. I know...a really stupid loadout but I was short on time and this loadout was the easiest and thus the fastest to model.

Sanku, prashanth, Shalav: Thanks. And prashanth, I have no idea regarding the mountain. I got it through google.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Tanaji »

OT: how does one learn the basics of 3D modelling. You may reply on the newbie thread if you wish
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by sathyaC »

Gaur wrote:I have made 3d model of Tejas. Here are two renders. Hope you like it. :)

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/ ... atgaur.jpg
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/ ... atgaur.jpg
Great work Buddy
now it is my desktop background :D
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by biswas »

Oh, Gaurji, I remember you had asked me some questions about modelling. I'm so sorry, completely slipped my mind, do you still need the help?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by shiv »

biswas wrote:Oh, Gaurji, I remember you had asked me some questions about modelling. I'm so sorry, completely slipped my mind, do you still need the help?
I heard a story called the Ramayana today. Who is Sita BTW? :lol:
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Kartik »

Gaur, you've done a good job and I hate being a wet sock, but the nose of the 3-D model is not quite like that of a Tejas..the angle is not right I'm afraid.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Gaur »

Tanaji:
See if you can get your hands on video tutorials by "lynda". They have the most excellent series of tutorials for beginners. If you have more queries, then we can discuss it over mail.

sathyaC: Glad you liked it. :)

biswas: No thanks. Problem solved now. :)

Kartik: Yes. I know the model has certain deficiencies. The thing is that it has only been 2 months since I have started learning 3d modelling as a hoby and this is my first aircraft model (and my 3rd model of all). So I am really an newbie in this field. Hopefully my next modelling effort (FGFA) would bring improvement.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Prasad »

Gaur wrote:I have made 3d model of Tejas. Here are two renders. Hope you like it. :)

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/ ... atgaur.jpg
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/ ... atgaur.jpg
These are good!! :D
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Cybaru »

Wow.. thats some beautiful stuff.. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by darshhan »

Rendering is very good.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by naird »

Parijat Gaur....you are on Livefist....check it out.....

Copyrights in your name...cheers.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Juggi G »

Craig Alpert
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Craig Alpert »

^^
IAF is willing to support indigenous programs as long as the products arrive on time, Barbora says. “We are not asking for the Moon. We are willing to wait, but give us what has been promised as per the deadline. We understand it’s not easy to make an aircraft.”

The IAF is currently in a transition phase, with new weapon systems and flying platforms set to be incorporated.

“In the next 10 years, IAF will change. Rapid technological changes pose a huge challenge, and even we need to change. There are no shortcuts in technology and we need to do things [the] right way,” Barbora says.

Meanwhile, Tejas crossed a significant hurdle when two LCAs successfully performed in hot-weather trials (HWTs) at Nagpur last week. Sources told AVIATION WEEK that the week-long HWTs were part of Tejas’ phase II schedule. The first phase was completed in 2008.

“All new systems onboard and avionics were tested with temperatures varying from 40 to 45 degrees Celsius (104 to 114 deg. F.). We had absolutely no issues with these flights, and both platforms rose to the occasion and performed as expected. We had close to 10 flights as part of the trials,” a source says.

The 11th test vehicle in the Tejas flight line is expected to fly soon as the program heads toward initial operational clearance in December. Weapons trials also are on the horizon.

“All the software will have to go into the final configuration of Tejas along with the flight control system and sensors. LSP-5 will be next. From LSP-3 flight, the multi-mode radar is onboard and this is clearly an indication as to our rapid progress in the program,” the source says. “We will be testing beyond-visual range missiles first and at a later stage the air-to-ground missiles which will take Tejas closer to the final operational clearance.”


Confirming the successful HWTs, P.S. Subramanyam, program director for combat aircraft and director of the Aeronautics Development Agency, says that one limited series production-3 aircraft and another prototype vehicle-3 from the Tejas fleet were part of the HWTs at Nagpur.

“Both aircraft are back in Bangalore and we are happy with what we have achieved. We are analyzing the data and will now move toward our next mission,” Subramanyam says.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by chackojoseph »

:D What about the foreign products which come late? For example, M2K's needed in 1990's haven't arrived even by 2010.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

and MKI was a decade long affair from 30K to Mki-1 - 2 - 3
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Forget the MKI... Remember the Hawks... it took more than 2 decades to get here...
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Prasad »

Who does finish programs on time when it deals with totally new tech and ground up expertise buildup!! I mean, asking for the moon and being nonchalant about it takes the cake!
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by disha »

Craig Alpert wrote:
IAF is willing to support indigenous programs as long as the products arrive on time, Barbora says. “We are not asking for the Moon. We are willing to wait, but give us what has been promised as per the deadline. We understand it’s not easy to make an aircraft.”
I am assuming our esteemed ACM was present when Jaguar were inducted into IAF. If he was, I welcome him to a walk down the memory lane:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story ... 1980).html
Like the mythological, multi-headed Hydra, the Rs 1,500-crore Jaguar deal keeps growing an extra head as soon as one is chopped off. India's largest-ever defence purchase has attracted more verbal flak than any other comparable acquisition.

Last fortnight, the Jaguar threatened to resurrect yet another flurry of controversy following murmurs of discontent from people actually involved in the operation of the aircraft. And, though the murmurs were characteristically muted, the implications were serious enough. Informed sources have made the alarming claim that 18 months after the original deal was signed, the aircraft supplied to India is totally non-operational for combat purposes. The sources have claimed that the aircraft's manufacturers, British Aerospace, are yet to supply the promised and much publicised armaments for the Jaguar. The sources also insist that they have faced considerable teething problems with the aircraft.

--by Dilip Bobb
So if Jaguars can be inducted without weapons not even supplied, why cannot the IAF do the same with LCA? The concept of blocks or mark or versioning is not new to the software industry. A product is launched and it goes through several iterations, some more controlled then others. A LCA mk-II will be say LCA flying with Kaveri (even with 90% of promised capacity). A mk-III will be LCA+Kaveri improved+AESA so on and so forth, with a 20-30 year plan! Sure if we can still fly Mig-21 BIS now, we can do the same with LCA and mid-course collect all the incremental updates into say a ground breaking aircraft say MCA or MCUAV or some such thing. Just my two cents.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Nihat »

Exactlyl and following up on this I wont mind if the defence ministry forces another squadron of LCA (addition to 40) down the IAF's throat. This extra scrutiny which indegenious weapon systems have to undergo prior to induction is quite shameful, some semblense of addiction has possibly creeped into the armed forces mentality which needs to be gotten rid of ASAP.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Well IAF is being quite reasonable in demanding what has been promised and to be delivered on time , plus he does mention he is willing to wait.

We can well compare Jaguar purchase 30 years back or the state of Mig-21 purchase 50 years back that has no relevance for LCA program or its induction.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Sid »

Austin wrote:Well IAF is being quite reasonable in demanding what has been promised and to be delivered on time , plus he does mention he is willing to wait.

We can well compare Jaguar purchase 30 years back or the state of Mig-21 purchase 50 years back that has no relevance for LCA program or its induction.
Totally agree, designers (ADA/DRDO) along with customers should well define in PDP which feature will go into which milestone.

If they said they will deliver 100% in one go then that is it. If they say they will provide AA capability in phase one and AG capability in phase two then say so during the schedule planning stage not when you are near the deadline.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by rohitvats »

Prasad wrote:Who does finish programs on time when it deals with totally new tech and ground up expertise buildup!! I mean, asking for the moon and being nonchalant about it takes the cake!
And how did you arrive at the conclusion that IAF asked for the moon?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by rohitvats »

disha wrote:
<SNIP>

So if Jaguars can be inducted without weapons not even supplied, why cannot the IAF do the same with LCA? The concept of blocks or mark or versioning is not new to the software industry. A product is launched and it goes through several iterations, some more controlled then others. A LCA mk-II will be say LCA flying with Kaveri (even with 90% of promised capacity). A mk-III will be LCA+Kaveri improved+AESA so on and so forth, with a 20-30 year plan! Sure if we can still fly Mig-21 BIS now, we can do the same with LCA and mid-course collect all the incremental updates into say a ground breaking aircraft say MCA or MCUAV or some such thing. Just my two cents.
How is this related to the LCA Development Story?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by disha »

Yes lately IAF has been reasonable. For eg. LCH orders while LCH is in TD stage proves that. At the same time, IAF cannot ignore history. HF-Marut and LCA has parallels, centering around Engine for example. It is just that several opportunities were wasted due to instransigence of the armed forces. Arjun is another example. If we have not to repeat history, it has to be remembered.

Regarding promised delivery, changes in requirement is a big no. It takes quite a fortitude to not panic and change requirements midway just because something similar is promised in a foreign brochure.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by disha »

rohitvats wrote:How is this related to the LCA Development Story?
Elementary Dr. Watson. Precendence (or rather a mis-treatment). Anyway, we can wash-rinse-repeat-rehash about the LCA story and how things changed in between and how ADA/HAL were unfair to IAF and vice-versa. Bottomline is, if there is experienced gain and processes improved, it will be good for all.

Again LCH is a project one can watch towards to see if lessons were indeed learnt. I am just glad that 10 years down LCA is going to be inducted., hopefully in large numbers. My uncle will be proud.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by kapilrdave »

^^^^Hmmm... so you think 10 more years for induction is ok? Interesting.

Earlier you said IAF should induct unfinished Tejas in numbers because Jaguars came in uncompleted shape!! Keep it up.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Sanku »

At least the Jags already had IOC before GoI even showed a interest in them.
RKumar

Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by RKumar »

OT alert ... Sanku, Kapilrdave, disha, Nihat, Austin !!!

DERRRRRAIL ALERTTTTTT.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by rohitvats »

disha wrote: Elementary Dr. Watson. Precendence (or rather a mis-treatment). Anyway, we can wash-rinse-repeat-rehash about the LCA story and how things changed in between and how ADA/HAL were unfair to IAF and vice-versa. Bottomline is, if there is experienced gain and processes improved, it will be good for all.

<SNIP>
First you make a completely unrelated argument and somehow try to show that IAF has been more accomodating of foreign products and then, when you're questioned to explain the rationale behind your post, you come up with still more nonsense?

Bottomline is this - You made a completely unrelated argument and nonsensical to boot
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by kapilrdave »

Actually I read positives in that news post.
That shows that IAF really do care about the project and they want the product.
Actually it is really not understandable that why some people here think that IAF wants to kill the program!!!
In fact IMO IAF really/badly wants Tejas in Numbers
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by vic »

Nihat wrote:Exactlyl and following up on this I wont mind if the defence ministry forces another squadron of LCA (addition to 40) down the IAF's throat. This extra scrutiny which indegenious weapon systems have to undergo prior to induction is quite shameful, some semblense of addiction has possibly creeped into the armed forces mentality which needs to be gotten rid of ASAP.
I agree totally! In fact ADA is already raising a demand that the order for 40LCA should go up to 60. But the fact remains that IAF has last signed a contract with HAL on 26th March 2006 for 20 LCA only and have not even signed the contract for next 20 let alone next 40.

Having said that I think that LSP continues to be 2 tons overweight. (flame jacket on :D ). The real performance of LCA will be appreciated with LSP6 to 8, which I believe will not have test instrumentation.

So I think that LCA can proceed as follows :-

LSP - overweight 2000kg

20 Block 1 - overweight 1500kg

20 Block 2 - overweight 1000kg i.e. MTOW of 6500kg which is being already publicised in HAL/ADA brochures

20 Block 3 - overweight 500kg i.e. MTOW 6000kg which will work with current engine and reduce pressure to deliver LCA Mark 2 quickly
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by chackojoseph »

:lol: Talking about IAF's ASR skills. I will repeat this story. I attended Dubai Airshow and asked the Sukhoi guy when they expected to deliver the MKI's? He was blunt, he said let your air force make up its mind and come up with the ASR. This in 2003. If someone can google the date of accord signing and the date of induction of SU-30MKI full spec, you will know what I am talking about.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Rahul M »

chacko please don't. I know your heart is in the right place but many would take this as an opportunity to do some mindless bashing. you do have that responsibility as a noted defence journo. ;)

rohit, yes there is some truth to the story that some aspects of the LCA ASR became obsolete before it should have, put it down to IAF's inexperience in such matters. the time we did miss a trick was in the 90's when the revision in ASR should have taken place but didn't due to apathy towards the program. it finally did in middle of this decade, during ACM Tyagi's tenure IIRC.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by chackojoseph »

Rahul M wrote:chacko please don't. I know your heart is in the right place but many would take this as an opportunity to do some mindless bashing. you do have that responsibility as a noted defence journo. ;)

rohit, yes there is some truth to the story that some aspects of the LCA ASR became obsolete before it should have, put it down to IAF's inexperience in such matters. the time we did miss a trick was in the 90's when the revision in ASR should have taken place but didn't due to apathy towards the program. it finally did in middle of this decade, during ACM Tyagi's tenure IIRC.
I admitted I am bashing and stopping.

rohitvats,

If you remember the DRDO AWACS story, it was the first time that DRDO was specific that it was late due to IAF (ASR capability). Also, we heard that it was due to the experience with IAF on LCA that DRDO was specific about it. I was also specific in my story
Logically the IAF has asked for 7 extra executive chairs for additional 5 operators and 2 pilots. Hence there has been 3 years delay in the signing of Embraer platform.
Addred later....

I just noticed but many would take this as an opportunity to do some mindless bashing

Who, anyone in particular?
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