Indian Military Aviation

Srivastav · Post by **Srivastav** » 14 Jun 2010 12:44

X-post

I have no idea if this is true or not but FWIW

US to ensure Pak won't use F-16s against India
http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jun/ ... -india.htm

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 14 Jun 2010 18:07

Garuda 2010 begins

pics
pic
pic 2

later, if possible, i will try to bring in french perspective.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 14 Jun 2010 23:05

CJ, the second pic of SU-30MKI take-off is real treat....can we gt better resolution pic of that? Thanx.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 15 Jun 2010 08:48

rohitvats wrote:CJ, the second pic of SU-30MKI take-off is real treat....can we gt better resolution pic of that? Thanx.

I am sure you must have found it by now. Else here it is.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 15 Jun 2010 13:10

^^^Thank you...that one has made it direct to my laptop background

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 15 Jun 2010 14:06

Here is the evidence of engine shielding in the Eurofighter - just check this photgraph:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_QKkSf03VuFY/T ... 103611.JPG

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 15 Jun 2010 14:11

shukla wrote:
German Air Force Chief Lt Gen Aarne Kreuzinger-Janik said that the two sides have talked about the possibility of joint training and a formal mechanism could be worked out in the near future.

No offence mate.. but posted in the same thread 3 days ago.

What's with this guy??

No friends in europe?

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 15 Jun 2010 14:15

Its probably just peer pressure... Since the leading european air forces have excercised with us, they too want to join us... I guess we, or should i say our MKI's are in very high demand...

koti · Post by **koti** » 15 Jun 2010 16:57

Another Mig-21 went down.

Good news is that the pilot is safe.

http://www.pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=62555

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Jun 2010 17:32

chetak wrote:
shukla wrote:
German Air Force Chief Lt Gen Aarne Kreuzinger-Janik said that the two sides have talked about the possibility of joint training and a formal mechanism could be worked out in the near future.

No offence mate.. but posted in the same thread 3 days ago.
What's with this guy??

No friends in europe?

Certainly every Airforce would like to get a feel and evaluate MKI in combat exercise with the reputation that she holds with their own top of line types.

I wont be surprised if PAF requests for joint training in near future

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 15 Jun 2010 19:30

koti wrote:Another Mig-21 went down.
Good news is that the pilot is safe.

http://www.pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=62555

Hopefully soon we write off Mig-21's, these planes are over due for their deserved final rest. Thank God no loss of life.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 15 Jun 2010 20:01

koti wrote:Another Mig-21 went down.
Good news is that the pilot is safe.

http://www.pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=62555

Only if the LCA had made it in time.. Thank heavens the pilots safe!

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 15 Jun 2010 21:20

Why are we so quick to malign the Mig-21s. The versions operating now are pretty decent and the crash can in no way be linked to LCA. The IAF has a vastly improved record of flight safety so please consider the facts before posting.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 15 Jun 2010 21:43

^^
No one is trying to malign the fighter. The fact is that while there is no denying that it is a superb fighter, Mig-21 has been in service for a long time. Any fighter for that long of service period is bound to have relatively less reliability. Add to that the fact that all the old 2nd and 3rd gen fighters are relatively less reliable than their 4th gen counterparts (specially in engine department). So, hoping that Tejas proves to be as reliable fighter as its 4th gen counterparts, there is nothing wrong in saying that it would help to decrease crash rates if a new fighter would replace the old ones which are already on their last stretch of life.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 16 Jun 2010 17:53

Basic Trainer procurement update..

Ajai Shukla reports..
Grob Aircraft targets 181 trainers for the IAF

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 16 Jun 2010 18:00

Vivek K wrote:Why are we so quick to malign the Mig-21s. The versions operating now are pretty decent and the crash can in no way be linked to LCA. The IAF has a vastly improved record of flight safety so please consider the facts before posting.

Nothing personal against the Mig's Vivek, have served us well..just can't imagine most of them to be still flying if the Tejas was inducted on time..

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 16 Jun 2010 18:02

Strange, SU-30 flies clean while the french a/c is with load.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 16 Jun 2010 18:09

chacko, not quite loaded, just a couple of dogfight missiles and a drop-tank. surely you know that the mki has no need for a drop tank !

the other two are just the pylon attachments.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 16 Jun 2010 18:17

Rahul M wrote:chacko, not quite loaded, just a couple of dogfight missiles and a drop-tank. surely you know that the mki has no need for a drop tank ! the other two are just the pylon attachments.

If MKI would have had same load, we would have still found it clean looking. Man, MKI's make look these birds busy.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 16 Jun 2010 18:37

X-post

Dynamatic delivers first sets of air frame structures for Sukhoi 30 MKI from Nasik facility

Dynamatic Technologies Ltd, the engineering products manufacturer, said it started deliveries of first set of air frame structures for India's largest defense program, Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter bomber, from its new facility in Nasik. The company recently commenced the transfer of assembly work of air frame structures for the Sukhoi-30 MKI fighter bomber from its production facilities in Bengaluru to a new facility provided by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) at Nasik.

The assembly transfer, which is expected to be complete by August 2010, will enable Dynamatic to offer greater production support to HAL due to its strategic location at the customer's doorstep, it said in a regulatory filing. The space freed at Dynamatic's aerospace production facilities in Bengaluru, by the assembly transfer, will be utilised by the company for its export initiatives.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 18 Jun 2010 16:39

New Vice President for Boeing Military Aircraft in India

Bob Gower, a F/A-18 fighter plane expert, has been named as vice president of Boeing Military Aircraft division in India. Gower will "expand and manage" the BMA product line in India, including P-8I maritime patrol aircraft, F/A-18IN fighter jets competing for the IAF's 126 MMRCA contract, C-17 transport aircraft to be bought by IAF, Apache attack and Chinook heavylift helicopters.

He will be based out of St Louis in Missouri, US, according to a company press release here today. Vivek Lall, vice president and India country head of Boeing, would continue to be responsible for all Boeing Defence activities in the country and would work closely with Gower in support of BMA activities, the release said.

Prior to taking on the Indian assignment, Gower managed several businesses within BMA. Most recently, he served as vice president of F/A-18 and EA-18 programmes.

By the sounds of it, Boeing is looking to convert 'Indian Air Force' to 'Boeing Air Force'..

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 18 Jun 2010 16:56

The taxpayer suffers in the end because national security remains at swords edge
going japs,soko way isnt the way to become self sustainable superpower
probably thats what they want and there are many middlemen in India who are licking their feet to do any thing no matter what are the consequences

self sustenance is the right way, and right things arent achieved going wrong ways

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 18 Jun 2010 17:09

shukla wrote:By the sounds of it, Boeing is looking to convert 'Indian Air Force' to 'Boeing Air Force'..

Shukla what is there to be so happy about it? Next you are expecting US to turn India into one of its state, perhaps BR should provide you with some super-ecstatic smily for that occasion? Or maybe your US masters will provide you with it

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 18 Jun 2010 17:15

Looks like Boeing is bringing out its big guns out for the last fight for the MMRCA... BTW any idea when will the decision on the chosen aircraft come???

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 18 Jun 2010 17:27

Manish_Sharma wrote:
shukla wrote:By the sounds of it, Boeing is looking to convert 'Indian Air Force' to 'Boeing Air Force'..
Shukla what is there to be so happy about it? Next you are expecting US to turn India into one of its state, perhaps BR should provide you with some super-ecstatic smily for that occasion? Or maybe your US masters will provide you with it

Humor me mate... Was meant as a joke. Neither am I in favour of India putting all its eggs in Boeing's basket, nor do I have a US masters.. Careful with what and how you choose criticize based on false assumption..so tone it down a bit next time.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 18 Jun 2010 17:30

Bala Vignesh wrote:Looks like Boeing is bringing out its big guns out for the last fight for the MMRCA... BTW any idea when will the decision on the chosen aircraft come???

First up is the IAF short-list in Sep-Oct..

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 18 Jun 2010 17:55

MiG 27s resume operational flying

The MiG 27 fighters, which were grounded in February after a crash, have resumed operational flights following clearance by the Indian Air Force. "The aircraft were cleared for flying operations after certain checks were carried out on the engines of the aircraft by us and the original equipment manufacturers from Russia," IAF sources told PTI here.

sathyaC · Post by **sathyaC** » 18 Jun 2010 17:57

UAV INDIA Part 1: First Ever Impressions Of AURA, India's UCAV
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/06/ua ... sions.html

What you're looking at here are the first ever manifestations of what India's UCAV, codenamed AURA, could look like. These are images from an official presentation (see slide) by India's Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) director PS Krishnan, outlining AURA (Autonomous Unmanned Research Aircraft), a programme that was nameless and obscure in the public domain before it was reported on here on LiveFist and on Headlines Today. As you can see from the slide, the ADE describes the AURA as a "self defending" high speed reconnaisance UAV with a "weapon firing capability", which seems a typically laboured way of describing the obvious. With the programme still in its project definition stage, the images used in the slide above are likely just representative (the tacky flag-on-underbelly routine a-la Lockheed Nighthawk with stars and stripes), though it's a definite indication of how the programme's scientists are thinking. It's all fully in line with what former DRDO chief controller for Aeronautics said in 2007: that India's combat drone would be a stealthy flying-wing concept aircraft with internal weapons and a turbofan engine.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 18 Jun 2010 23:26

shukla wrote: Humor me mate... Was meant as a joke. Neither am I in favour of India putting all its eggs in Boeing's basket, nor do I have a US masters.. Careful with what and how you choose criticize based on false assumption..so tone it down a bit next time.

Ok, didn't get the humour part. Sorry for the harsh words. Hope there are no hard feelings after this!

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 19 Jun 2010 04:05

IAF planning to procure new air defence systems

New Delhi, Jun 18 (PTI) Looking to strengthen its capabilities to tackle aerial threats, Indian Air Force is planning to procure short-range air defence systems.

In a recently issued Request for Information (RFI), the IAF has said that the air defence system "will be employed for providing terminal air defence to selected vital assets and points in plains, deserts, semi deserts, hilly and mountainous terrain as pertaining in our country."

Planning to procure a system with a strike-range between 500 metres to three kilometres, the IAF wants the new air defence guns to be capable of engaging targets such as aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles and cruise missiles, official sources said.

It has specified that the air defence systems should be able to strike targets at an effective height of 1,500 metres.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 19 Jun 2010 04:06

MiG-27 up in air, again

MiG-27 fighters, which were grounded in February following a crash, have resumed operational flights following clearance by the Indian Air Force.

The IAF carried out certain checks on the engine before re-allowing flying operations.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 22 Jun 2010 23:45

Cross posting from the C-17 for the IAF? thread...

KC-130J would be a FLYING SWISS ARMY Knife

The U.S. Marines know as well as anyone that there is never enough airborne video in Afghanistan to watch over forward bases, convoys and patrols. Listening to the feedback from the field, Marine planners in 2008 realized that their KC-130J aerial refueling planes might be able to double as ISR and strike planes. Last year, the service reprogrammed millions of dollars from an avionics initiative to assemble ISR and weapons kits for its refuelers, and within weeks the Marines hope to start flying the first KC-130J equipped with the cameras, computers and missiles.
A big challenge for engineers has been to prove that installation of the equipment will not detract from the KC-130J’s primary refueling mission.
The Lockheed Martin-designed kits, called Harvest Hawks for High Altitude Weapons Kit, are the latest example of the U.S. effort to put all eyes on the battlefield in the counterinsurgency war against the Taliban. Ground crews would be able to install or remove combinations of the weapons and ISR equipment in the field in no more than eight hours. The Marines could beam video to the ground while a KC-130J transferred fuel to an MV-22 tiltrotor, helicopter or fighter; in between refuelings, they could launch small missiles armed with just a few pounds of explosives, the kinds of weapons that can minimize civilian casualties in a counterinsurgency.If the kits pass their field tests and reach Afghanistan as planned, they will answer “an urgent universal needs statement from deployed Marines” for more persistent surveillance and close-air support, said Marine Corps Maj. J.P. Pellegrino, the KC-130 requirements officer.
Each KC-130J would become “a flying Swiss Army knife,” with the Marine task force commander deciding on the mix of weapons and ISR equipment that the planes should carry on specific sorties, Pellegrino said by e-mail.
The plane’s right wing would be unchanged, but the left wing could be converted to a platform for an ISR camera and weapons. The aerial refueling pod would be removed in the field to accommodate Hellfire missiles. Field crews also would be able to remove the plane’s fuel tank on that side and attach a dry fuel tank modified to carry a camera pod. Commanders could choose to load pallets of small Viper Strike bombs and Griffin missiles by rolling them up the planes’ cargo ramps before takeoff. The ground crew would lash down the pallets and the air crew would open the aft cargo doors to fire the weapons. The work stations to operate the video and control the weapons would be rolled up the same way as the pallet-mounted munitions.
...............................

In what might be the boldest decision, developmental flight tests are being conducted concurrently with operational tests.

..................................
The Harvest Hawk-equipped KC-130Js would be flown at the same altitudes where the planes perform their aerial refueling missions. “For instance, an aircraft could take off from an airfield with a sensor and Hellfire missiles, and set up its refueling track directly over a forward operating base,” Pellegrino said.
Because the system is modular, the equipment could be mixed and matched. “If desired, only the targeting ISR sensor could be loaded for an ISR-only mission. The targeting ISR sensor plus Hellfire could be loaded if the ramp is required for another mission. The sensor and ramp launcher could be loaded if both aerial refueling pods are required. Or, the sensor with the full complement of munitions and the cannon if a more traditional gunship role is desired,” Pellegrino said.
Firing weapons would not be easy, however. “When ready for launch, the aircrew will depressurize the aircraft, lower the ramp, launch the munitions, close the ramp, and then repressurize the aircraft,” Pellegrino said. Future modifications would enable the aircraft to fire weapons without depressurizing the ramp area. Once the first three kits are delivered, later versions would have a 30mm camera that would be fired from the left side door, Pellegrino said.
.....................

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 23 Jun 2010 04:10

I was going through an article on a joint European training solution through the M-346 Master AJT. Came across a small snippet that is worth mentioning for the basic trainer competition for the IAF.

It states that the French Air Force's basic pilot training system at Cognac Air base, run by the company's EADS Cognac Aviation Training Services subsidiary and using 18 Grob G120's, provided more than 50,000 flight hours between April 2006 and June 2009, and last year achieved a 98.5% availability rate.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... -deal.html

50,000 flight hours over 39 months from a fleet of 18 Grob G120s translates to nearly 2.36 hours daily per basic trainer. With an availability rate of 98.5%, that is quite impressive and indicates that it's quite a trouble free and non maintenance intensive trainer. Combine that with its low acquisition cost of around $3-4 million per unit (as per Ajai Shukla's article) and the addition of the lightest ejection seats to date and it might well be a neat little basic trainer. That ejection seat was its bug bear for this IAF competition (which required ejection seats) but they've managed to overcome it just in time. There is talk of a possible tandem seater being developed as well, indicating that this might have been mentioned as a possible disadvantage for the Grob G120 even though the HPT-32 Deepak was a side-by-side seater as well.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 23 Jun 2010 07:39

X-post..

Govt may hire helicopters from overseas to combat Maoists

After facing stiff resistance from the Indian Air Force (IAF), the ministry of home affairs is considering hiring heavy-lift helicopters from foreign firms for quick movement of paramilitary forces and aerial surveillance in areas hit by Maoist insurgents.

“If the air force cannot give it to us, we will go the private sector. If still not available, we will go outside (to foreign countries). All options are open before us,” a senior home ministry official said on condition of anonymity.

“We are waiting for the CCS (cabinet committee on security) decision on this. We will see how much they are giving us. The home ministry will then take a call on hiring from outside,” the official said.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 23 Jun 2010 08:09

^^This is absolutely ridiculous. I can understand the IAF not wanting to get involved in actual combat ops, but they aren't even allowed to lend their choppers?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2010 08:16

nachiket wrote:^^This is absolutely ridiculous. I can understand the IAF not wanting to get involved in actual combat ops, but they aren't even allowed to lend their choppers?

Nothing ridiculous about it.

Who is going to be maintaining and flying those "borrowed" IAF helicopters? Hired Ukranians?

The state governments involved should have taken care of the naxals. They fcued up and are begging the center that is passing the buck to the air force.

Now let me apply this to another state.

There are fresh riots in "Gujrat". 10,000 Muslims are raped and Killed. (self edited) Live ***** ****** **** **** *****. The state government says it cannot handle it and asks the center. The center says OK let us send in the IAF to bomb the rioters?

IAF says we are unhappy with the idea. Is that still ridiculous?

Did you read the full news item BTW?

Edited later to remove offensive sentence

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 23 Jun 2010 08:54

There are fresh riots in "Gujrat". 10,000 Muslims are raped and Killed. Live babies ripped out of pregnant women's bellies. The state government says it cannot handle it and asks the center. The center says OK let us send in the IAF to bomb the rioters?

Shiv Saar,

While your logic is ok, please don't defame the state of Gujarat... It is currently one of the best managed state in the country where there is no incident of any communist riots since last 9 years... The state is having one of the highest growth rate... The state is safe especially for women. Finding girls wandering alone even at 11 or 12 or 1 in the night is not a surprise and they are sure they are secure...

Sorry OT

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2010 10:13

nrshah wrote: Shiv Saar,

While your logic is ok, please don't defame the state of Gujarat... It is currently one of the best managed state in the country where there is no incident of any communist riots since last 9 years... The state is having one of the highest growth rate... The state is safe especially for women. Finding girls wandering alone even at 11 or 12 or 1 in the night is not a surprise and they are sure they are secure...

Sorry OT

Gosh - how sensitive can you get? Who is "defaming" the state of Gujarat? I have not even mentioned the name Gujarat if you check my statement. I have deliberately used the sarcastic Paki expression "Gujrat" and have even put it in inverted commas. How ironic is this?

Modi handles internal security in his state and he gets criticised for it by the center.

Naxal infested states fail to do their duty, howl for help and the center tries to pass the buck to the air force

The air force gets criticized for doing the right thing.

I point out a totally hypothetical scenario where if Modi had done what the naxal infested states were doing and the center passed the buck what would the IAF do?

And you think I am smearing Gujarat. Kindly spare me this hypersensitivity. Do you think that there is a separate form of shame called "Gujarat's shame" which I do not share as an Indian. I don't think India and Indians need to be apologetic or sensitive. We are all going to get smeared for the slightest thing no matter how good we are. Gujarat gets no special smearing. Even this is a case of passing the buck. Pakistan blames all Indians and the GoI blames Gujarat so they can come out scoring political brownies. Unless we say these things out loud we are not going to be able to point out what is going on.

It is the center that criticises Modi for doing his job right and the center that looks around for the forces to save it's ass when screwed up states have an internal security situation on their hands. Let me hear the center accusing the commies of being "Maut ka saudagar"?

I am NOT smearing Gujarat here

shanksinha · Post by **shanksinha** » 23 Jun 2010 11:57

Mr. Shiv, you make your points loud and clear but still there are some instances in your posts that could have been best avoided. You write that "There are fresh riots in "Gujrat". 10,000 Muslims are raped and Killed. Live babies ripped out of pregnant women's bellies."

I would like to point out that in any real or hypothetical communal riots its hardly likely that only people belonging to one particular community (namely muslims as you point out here) will be killed. A riot is devastating to all communities involved, or perhaps you hint that its only Muslims who got killed in Gujarat riots.

Secondly the reference to live babies ripped out of wombs is unneccessary and a slur based on unconfirmed and drummed up propaganda.

-Thanks.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 23 Jun 2010 12:05

Thats why I keep asking Shiv to go easy on Piskology.....