Indian Military Aviation

Srivastav · Post by **Srivastav** » 23 Jun 2010 12:06

i think most people are taking what shiv saar said to literally..
..he is being sarcastic towards the liberal media shouting out how everything in gujarat was hell and GOI was all ready to take action against it....its also a well known propaganda spiel propagated by bakisatan

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 23 Jun 2010 14:17

Sachin to get honorary IAF post

Yes.. Believe it - Sachin Tendulkar is captain again! From Indian Cricket Team to Indian Air Force...

Sachin Tendulkar is set to have another feather on his cap with the Indian Air Force (IAF) deciding to confer him an honorary group captain's post. Sources said the IAF had considered giving Sachin an honorary wing commander's post but top officials decided that the rank wasn't befitting Sachin's stature.

A group captain's rank in the air force is equivalent to that of a colonel in the Army. Sources said Sachin may also be invited by the IAF to fly a fighter jet this year to earn 'wings'.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 23 Jun 2010 14:22

What a climb down, when I read it I thought it was our own Sachin from BRF...

Sigh.......

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2010 14:33

Let me apologise to those who felt hurt by my sarcasm.

I had failed to anticipate that false accusations are designed to make people go on the defensive and that even uninvolved people who have nothing to be defensive about and who are fully aware of the false nature of the accusations are forced to feel defensive if the accusations are made strong enough and for long enough. Sorry about that. I am too thick skinned a fellow to feel anything even when accusations levelled against me are true - leave alone false

But that is OT. Please accept my apologies.

sawant · Post by **sawant** » 23 Jun 2010 18:10

If the air force cannot give it to us, we will go the private sector. If still not available, we will go outside (to foreign countries). All options are open before us

How about buying a few helis for our own forces... if not for the IAF, at least for the para-military... even when there is a shortfall of helis these guys won't buy us any... if only it was needed for VIPs...

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 23 Jun 2010 18:13

EX Garuda enters its final phase

Guys awesome photos have arrived. Will link you shortly.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 23 Jun 2010 18:28

Images being uploaded here

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Jun 2010 19:00

sawant wrote: How about buying a few helis for our own forces... if not for the IAF, at least for the para-military... even when there is a shortfall of helis these guys won't buy us any... if only it was needed for VIPs...

Seriously police forces need helos too. But considering that police forces in Bangalore actually go a fleet of vehicles only in the last 15 years or so - it goes to show where we are as a nation.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Jun 2010 19:03

thanks a lot chacko, this one is beautiful beyond words.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jun 2010 19:09

the best I have found so far is this one - MKI takes off at dawn from luxor airbase (in egypt I guess) for france.

http://www.stratpost.com/wp-content/upl ... -x-250.jpg

looking at goog earth luxor does have a excellent looking military base with twin parallel runways and roads leading to many HAS at both ends. there is also a huge open parking area - no doubt some type of munna facility to sortie USAF heavy a/c in ME region.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 23 Jun 2010 20:17

chackojoseph wrote:Images being uploaded here

Thanks. Except the pics showing humans, every pic is a beauty.

shanksinha · Post by **shanksinha** » 24 Jun 2010 01:17

Dear Mr. Shiv,

You have done something very very rare on internet forums in general and BR in particular, that is accepting a mistake. I feel humbled and thankful.
I respect you for your gesture. You are the man!

-Thanks. (sorry for OT but I dont know how else to contact Mr. Shiv)

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 24 Jun 2010 04:03

Sachin Flies High, gets Honorary Rank of IAF Group Captain
The Indian Express

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 24 Jun 2010 04:05

IAF Gets Feel of Latest Paki Fighter Aircraft
The Indian Express

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 24 Jun 2010 11:02

After seeing the magnificent photos here

Gaur wrote:Some excellent pics here:
http://pics-aeronef.discutfree.com/repo ... 01-110.htm

i'm overcome by this very depressing feeling which i want to get off my chest that, What if the exercises were in India ?

To me the ans is: There would've been hardly any quality photos, just standard news report type Stock Photos or some unaesthetic photos with part of the plane blocked/chopped

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 24 Jun 2010 11:07

chackojoseph wrote:Images being uploaded here

Beauty.. Meanwhile, are these pics courtesy Shiv Aroor's website??

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 24 Jun 2010 11:10

Indian fighter jets excel in asset protection mission in France

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 24 Jun 2010 11:13

http://frontierindia.net/album/main.php ... ewsIndex=1

First time seeing in this angle

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 24 Jun 2010 11:15

Juggi G wrote:IAF Gets Feel of Latest Paki Fighter Aircraft
The Indian Express

Wouldn't they already have got a chance to have a "good look" and even test drive the UAE'sF-16's as a part of the MMRCA trials anyway(which are a gen ahead of the Paki's?

So probably not their first brush..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Jun 2010 11:40

shukla wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:Images being uploaded here
Beauty.. Meanwhile, are these pics courtesy Shiv Aroor's website??

MOD, ministry of defence/ IAF PRO. all journos get these. aroor just does not acknowledge the fact that the pics aren't his copyright.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 24 Jun 2010 11:51

Rahul M wrote:MOD, ministry of defence/ IAF PRO. all journos get these. aroor just does not acknowledge the fact that the pics aren't his copyright.

Ahhaa, I'm with you.. thanks!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2010 06:50

Vishal Jolapara wrote:After seeing the magnificent photos here
Gaur wrote:Some excellent pics here:
http://pics-aeronef.discutfree.com/repo ... 01-110.htm
i'm overcome by this very depressing feeling which i want to get off my chest that, What if the exercises were in India ?

To me the ans is: There would've been hardly any quality photos, just standard news report type Stock Photos or some unaesthetic photos with part of the plane blocked/chopped

Well I get a couple of thoughts on this issue too. The best photos have always come with US involvement. The French photos are good and Cope India produced some nice pix again from US sources.

It may seem disappointing but it is a real indicator of India's place as compared with developed nations that we have both a lack of huge numbers of people with good cameras (only the wealthiest in India can afford good cameras and very few of them are aviation enthusisasts.) and have failed to encourage a wide variety of interests among our children - who have grown up to be boring adults.

The lack of aviation/military enthusiasts again stems from a country that is still stuck in secretive practices and rules with regard to military hardware and that is fed by our education system where children at an age when they should be going out and doing aeromodelling or photography are attending tuition classes to get into IIT/engineering, starting 6 AM and ending 8 PM. Hence also the only sport played is street cricket, and everyone knows about cricket.

And that reflects in our bookstores where you get magazines for general reading, automobile mags, womens mags, health mags, computer magazines, interior design mags and glossy "phoren mags" but no sign of Vayu, Force or any other military related publication. No DIY either We don't do that. India is a long way off from possessing the hallmarks of a developed nation

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 25 Jun 2010 07:38

Shiv, I think this will change as we indigenously produce more and more equipment. For instance, I am far more interested in photographing the LCA than whichever aircraft we select for the MMRCA.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2010 08:31

Avarachan wrote:Shiv, I think this will change as we indigenously produce more and more equipment. For instance, I am far more interested in photographing the LCA than whichever aircraft we select for the MMRCA.

I am sure you are right. There are many "revolutions" that India skipped. Film photography was one of them (among other like widespread land line connectivity before cellphones). Film photography was never widespread. Only the relatively wealthy in India (1%?) had film cameras.

"Have camera will click" is a perfect description of how hobbies start. People who do not have cameras will not see things to click and will not develop photography related hobbies - like photographing birds, people, sunset of aircraft.

India's society today is a a reflection of how we have skipped technological generations. Our aircraft builders skipped the first 2-3 generations of aircraft design and the people who started had to start with 3 or 4th gen without the experience of the earlier gens.

The cellphone revolution in India has finally given a huge number of people power to take photos - but not good photos. I expect to see this change over time.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jun 2010 09:34

more than that its the likelihood if you could arrested or shot if prowling near a defence facility clicking with a big camera. there are plenty of people in blr who dont take such risks (incl me). good photos cannot be taken on spur of moment - it needs positioning and preparation as close as possible to the action.

there may be some high level guidelines but ultimately its the guy with the gun or danda who makes up the rules as he goes along, many dont read the memos.

and where is the welcome mat for plane spotting ? even in a totally civilian facility like BIAL is there a viewing gallery from where enthusiasts can photo the tarmac or runway ? a big NO.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 25 Jun 2010 10:17

I am not in agreement to have people outside defence facilties except on designated days (like some airshow) - we have too many headaches as it is for Base security officer.

maybe civil but seeing whats around our civil airports - thats equally stressful

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2010 10:26

As I see it the rules are quite blind to reality. As long as you can do it covertly and with a long lens you can spend days outside any air base clicking photos to make any jingo happy. I am sure many people are doing just that.

BR itself was started because all the "secret" information about Indian armed forces were freely available in Jane's and other publications abroad.

Check Phil Camp/Simon Watson's Su 30 book and you find that the Su 30 has been undressed and photographed from every angle minus bra, panties everything.

What is being covered up by the rules may be laxity. If that laxity is covered up - what people see and photograph from the outside will be only what they are allowed to see. Check the 3 Subbarao videos in the multimedia thread.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 25 Jun 2010 10:35

Shiv

Phil and co were given explicit permission and choicest locations by IAF.

I do not think they prowled outside KKD and took pictures.

there are more aspects to base security than the picture of the aircraft. For obvious reasons i cannot go into it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jun 2010 10:45

Surya wrote:Shiv

Phil and co were given explicit permission and choicest locations by IAF.

I do not think they prowled outside KKD and took pictures.

there are more aspects to base security than the picture of the aircraft. For obvious reasons i cannot go into it.

Oh I am sure there are, but it is typical to arrest people who are caught taking pictures for the same reason. And that is why those who wish to take pictures do it on the sly. What is base security or anyone else going to do about it?

The correct thing is to allow photography in designated areas and anyone outside that snooping area should be "made and example of." That way everyone can be encouraged to go to the photography area or be punished. After all most photo takers are innocent enthusiasts. Why put them on par with the spooks? That way you make spooks out of everyone. 1 million spooks are a bigger security thread than 999,000 innocents who only want a few innocent pics but get bashed for being innocent.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 25 Jun 2010 10:50

The correct thing is to allow photography in designated areas and anyone outside that snooping area should be "made and example of."

No disagreement with designated areas but would like to also add designated days and preferably after informing in advance.

i agree a lot of stupidity exists - like not allowing pictures of Gate guardians.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 25 Jun 2010 10:59

shiv wrote:we have both a lack of huge numbers of people with good cameras (only the wealthiest in India can afford good cameras and very few of them are aviation enthusisasts.) and have failed to encourage a wide variety of interests among our children - who have grown up to be boring adults.

I can tell you i am not at all from a wealthy family

,
if there's a Lower-Middle, Middle-Middle & Upper-Middle Class then i'm at best Middle Middle Class.

Worked my ass off to save enough to buy a good dSLR, 6-9 months into getting it and getting good at it, i started saving since (still saving) to get better & Pro-Quality gear.

Its just that people dont give too much thought or respect towards getting good gear,
a Sony/Nikon 10000x Optical Zoom & 1000000 Mega Pixels + 2GB Card + Pouch Free is all they look at when buying a camera, "nahi beta Sony hi lena, Sony accha Company hai, ok Sony dey do!"

shiv wrote:And that reflects in our bookstores where you get magazines for general reading, automobile mags, womens mags, health mags, computer magazines, interior design mags and glossy "phoren mags" but no sign of Vayu, Force or any other military related publication. No DIY either We don't do that. India is a long way off from possessing the hallmarks of a developed nation

^

This article on Me/Plane Spotting came on the FRONT PAGE of Hindustan Times' Sunday Edition 2 years ago

here's the Cover Story on Page 5

The only effect it had was me being hounded by almost every single media group/agency to do interviews, come on air & the like.

After this very many articles about spotting & aviation photography started mushrooming across newspapers.

Just another article in the paper for many.

Singha wrote:ultimately its the guy with the gun or danda who makes up the rules as he goes along, many dont read the memos.

Unfortunately, 100% Bang-On !

Singha wrote:and where is the welcome mat for plane spotting ? even in a totally civilian facility like BIAL is there a viewing gallery from where enthusiasts can photo the tarmac or runway ? a big NO.

BIG YES ACTUALLY.
Bangalore is the only place where they openly welcome spotting,
http://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2010/0 ... plane.html
And YES they constructed a spotting/photography platform for the spotters (checkout the video)

I spoke with BIAL CEO (at the time) Albert Brunner on it when i was there for BIAL's Opening Ceremony, he was cool about it.
Subsequently, my Bangalore Spotter friends followed-up on the request on their own, put-in the hardwork convincing the authorities & have created a model for the rest of the airports to follow.
The rest following it or not is another thing

Hyderabad International Airport is also Spotter friendly, you can view the entire ramp from the public area.
Thankfully unlike the AAI who would build walls as high as the sky if they could, GMR Group has kept everything very open & viewable, you can see your plane arrive, taxi to the gate, see the passengers de-board and the rest........

The first photo is shot from the road leading up onto the departures area.
Anyone can go there & spend as much time as they like viewing, photographing.

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 25 Jun 2010 20:27

First India C-130J in Full Color

MARIETTA, Ga., , June 25th, 2010 -- The first Lockheed Martin [NYSE: LMT] C-130J Super Hercules for India has completed painting at the company's Marietta, Ga., facility. The aircraft now enters flight test in preparation for delivery at the end of the year. The program for India includes six C-130Js, training of aircrew and maintenance technicians, spare parts, and ground support and test equipment. Also included is India-unique operational equipment designed to increase Special Operations capabilities.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 26 Jun 2010 02:08

shukla wrote:
Rahul M wrote:MOD, ministry of defence/ IAF PRO. all journos get these. aroor just does not acknowledge the fact that the pics aren't his copyright.
Ahhaa, I'm with you.. thanks!

Actually he does acknowledge the source - http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/06/ex ... se-su.html

scroll to the bottom of the post for the Credit Photos Courtesy Indian Air Force / DPR Defence

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Jun 2010 02:18

not always though and usually after some goading from readers.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 26 Jun 2010 05:14

US, Russia in Race for IAF Attack Choppers Deal
The Indian Express

US, Russia in Race for IAF Attack Choppers Deal
Manu Pubby
Posted online: Sat June 26 2010

New Delhi : The US and Russia will face off for the deal to supply the Indian Air Force crucial attack choppers after two major competitors from Europe pulled out citing technical reasons. The mainstay attack helicopters of the two countries will arrive in India within two months and will be put through several rounds of gruelling tests.

What has left many surprised is that Eurocopter’s Tiger and Agusta’s A129 Mangusta have pulled out of the estimated $600 million contest and will not be coming for the field trials.

Sources said that Eurocopter decided not to take part months ago and did not respond to request for proposals issued by the IAF. Agusta, on the other hand, seems to have pulled out at the last minute after it assessed that the Mangusta would not be able to fulfill the requirements of the IAF field trials, which include hard landings in high-altitude areas.

The surprise exit of the two European choppers — considered to be highly competitive — will give an advantage to Boeing’s AH-64D Apache Longbow, which will compete with the Russian Mi 28 attack chopper.

Incidentally, the procurement process for the attack helicopters was cancelled last year after two American companies opted out of the competition saying they did not get adequate time to seek permission from Washington to take part in the tender. This had led to protests by other competitors, notably the Europeans, who complained that the competition was stalled to tilt it in the favour of the American companies.

In May last year, the tender was reissued — the first defence tender to be taken out by the re-elected UPA government.

“We hope to begin trials within the next 60 days. We are offering the latest version of the Apache, the AH-64 D Longbow, and are confident that it is well suited for Indian requirements,” Vivek Lall, Vice-President and Country Head, Boeing Defense Space & Security, told The Indian Express.

Russia is offering its latest-generation Mi 28 ‘Havoc’ helicopter, that was inducted by its armed forces in 2006.

While the first round of trials will take place in India, the IAF evaluation team will also travel to the US and Russia for a round of weapon trials.

The IAF is planning to initially procure 22 attack helicopters to replace its fleet of ageing Mi 35 attack choppers, which are nearing the end of their service life.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 26 Jun 2010 07:59

shukla wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:Images being uploaded here
Beauty.. Meanwhile, are these pics courtesy Shiv Aroor's website??

No sir, This is a standard issue for all DDM's like us.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2010 08:28

in code language what it means is the tfta tiger wouldnt have been able to hack it in Leh+ & barmer+ environs. a good example of tfta per brochure but gun shy when it comes to pulling pants down and letting it all hang out. since our local products are nanga from day1, whether they have the necessary shlong or not is
apparent from day1 itself - wsi, dhruv, lch are held to far higher stds from day1. THEY WILL DELIVER without nasty surprises later.

I think even the AH64D had some issues in afghanistan but they have had 10 yrs in afghanistan now to fix and improve things. even then I dunno if hovering attacks of the type shown on discovery channel are possible at those alts. the videos I have seen suggest slash and run mi24 style plane type attacks.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 26 Jun 2010 09:23

Rahul M wrote:thanks a lot chacko, this one is beautiful beyond words.

Thanks! This is now my new desktop wallpaper!

Question to the pros : Is it just my imagination or do i see rust spots on the MKI along panel rivets?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 26 Jun 2010 09:30

Ambar wrote: Thanks! This is now my new desktop wallpaper!

Question to the pros : Is it just my imagination or do i see rust spots on the MKI along panel rivets?

just your imagination.

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 26 Jun 2010 17:49

Off topic but

Vishal Jolapara wrote:
Singha wrote:there was even one guy who went into some bushes at palam and photographed the ARC/VVIP tarmac area in delhi
Didnt know about Google Earth ?

That was way before Google Earth era, or even the NOIDA highway era..

It was Sunil Gupta http://www.lockonaviation.net/index.php

This was the one that Singha was talking about.