LCA News and Discussions

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 Jun 2010 06:54

Radiation hardened hardware is not just against nuclear weapons. They are also important in electronics for space applications and radiation hardening is a specialised field in microelectronics. If we plan to put defense sats in space, we might need the experience. Not sure where EM weapons are right now though. Fantasy or experimental labs or actual secret weapons.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 22 Jun 2010 07:24

shiv wrote:May I just ask the reason for discussing EMP resistant electronics? I thought EMP resistance is required in case of conflict in which there is an air-burst of a nuclear weapon designed to fry electronics. That means nuclear war doesn't it? It is another matter that India is now wired up with fiber optic cables. Don;t know about EMP resistantelectronics

Feb, 2010 :: AESA: More Than Just A New Radar (it’s the top-of-the-line microwave weapon)

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 22 Jun 2010 07:31

nukavarapu wrote:
shiv wrote: May I just ask the reason for discussing EMP resistant electronics? I thought EMP resistance is required in case of conflict in which there is an air-burst of a nuclear weapon designed to fry electronics. That means nuclear war doesn't it? It is another matter that India is now wired up with fiber optic cables. Don;t know about EMP resistantelectronics
The whole discussion started with the advantages of Fly by Light/Optics.

BTW, way back .............. the MCA was associated with the FBL. Do not know if that association still exists. But even for that suggestion I would think that some thought and maturity of technologies must have taken place.

(Have come across an article by a sengupta that claims that the IAF has insisted that the FGFA has FBL, while the PAK-FA has FBW.)

babbupandey · Post by **babbupandey** » 22 Jun 2010 07:38

NRao wrote: BTW, way back .............. the MCA was associated with the FBL. Do not know if that association still exists. But even for that suggestion I would think that some thought and maturity of technologies must have taken place.

(Have come across an article by a sengupta that claims that the IAF has insisted that the FGFA has FBL, while the PAK-FA has FBW.)

I just hope that MCA does not turn out to be the case of over-promises and under-deliveries. I hope HAL/DRDO have learnt from LCA and can say "no" to over-demanding customers.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jun 2010 07:46

Prasad wrote:Radiation hardened hardware is not just against nuclear weapons. They are also important in electronics for space applications and radiation hardening is a specialised field in microelectronics. If we plan to put defense sats in space, we might need the experience. Not sure where EM weapons are right now though. Fantasy or experimental labs or actual secret weapons.

OK Thanks and you too Nrao

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 22 Jun 2010 12:26

Final Configuration Tejas LSP-5 To Fly In August

LSP-5 will be the 11th platform to join the flight line, and ADA is planning to make LSP-6 a completely experimental aircraft.

“We are confident of LSP-7 in September 2010 and the final LSP-8 in December 2010, paving [the] way for the initial operational clearance,” Subramanyam says.

What happened to HAL and ADA ... they are throwing out LCA like anything ... by going this speed we dont need MMRCA

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 22 Jun 2010 13:00

This is good news......

But the great news would have been if the IOC was done and wrapped up by Oct - Nov. I'm just a tad bit afraid that while they are gunning for Dec. and even a slight slippage will roll it over to the next year. Which I definitely won't like.

I've promised to treat my friends if it attains IOC before Nov end.

RKumar wrote:Final Configuration Tejas LSP-5 To Fly In August

LSP-5 will be the 11th platform to join the flight line, and ADA is planning to make LSP-6 a completely experimental aircraft.

“We are confident of LSP-7 in September 2010 and the final LSP-8 in December 2010, paving [the] way for the initial operational clearance,” Subramanyam says.

nrshah · Post by **nrshah** » 22 Jun 2010 13:01

and ADA is planning to make LSP-6 a completely experimental aircraft.

What is that?

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 22 Jun 2010 13:05

^^^^ Just imagine If FOC comes by late 2012 or Early 2013 latest and by then the IAF gets impressed, and orders about 14-15 squadrons worth of these.... man I'm deliriuos......

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 22 Jun 2010 13:57

About fly-by-light, the advantages are:

1. Remarkable reduction in wiring harness weight and space.
2. Freedom from grounding problem. A wire running from the tail to the nose have all sorts of voltage gradient that it must be shielded from. An optical system can go anywhere.
3. By virtue of 1, can have more redundant paths.

Speed doesn't matter. Even EMP resistance doesn't matter. For the distances involved, fiber takes MORE power than copper, and both are minuscule compared to the power for the rest of the stuff, so power doesn't matter.

Disadvantages:
1. Less reliable, because more and sensitive components to fail
2. Expensive and complex to produce and maintain.

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 22 Jun 2010 14:51

Unconfirmed reports from a friendly neighbourhood paanwallah suggest that the LCA Navy Prototype could roll out in the 1st fortnight of July.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 22 Jun 2010 15:15

nrshah wrote:
and ADA is planning to make LSP-6 a completely experimental aircraft.
What is that?

Don't know ... wild guess LCA with GTRE engine

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 22 Jun 2010 15:21

Probably use it to test things that will go into Mk2

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 22 Jun 2010 15:26

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

sunilpatel · Post by **sunilpatel** » 22 Jun 2010 23:14

[quote="Dileep"]

Speed doesn't matter. Even EMP resistance doesn't matter. For the distances involved, fiber takes MORE power than copper, and both are minuscule compared to the power for the rest of the stuff, so power doesn't matter.
Fiber Takes much less power than copper, particualy for FBL; single mode fiber will be used, and it has unbelievable lower losses, but yea for such short distance, power doesnt matter much. Regarding EMP; it does the matter, really matters; even the wireless datalink creats some interference with Craft's communication system in copper media, if it not properly maintained;particularly in aged aircraft....

Disadvantages:
1. Less reliable, because more and sensitive components to fail
its very highely reliable and robust systerm only thing will be that; once there will be problem; it takes time to restore..not that easy to maintain.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 22 Jun 2010 23:17

I posted in noob thread nobody replied so posting here learned gurus
"Is testing of spin recovery essential before LCA achieves IOC"

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 23 Jun 2010 04:27

India To Roll Out Tejas Naval Variant Soon
Aviation Week

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 23 Jun 2010 04:28

Final Configuration Tejas To Fly In August
Aviation Week

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 23 Jun 2010 04:56

Juggi G wrote:India To Roll Out Tejas Naval Variant Soon
Aviation Week

The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) sanctioned development of LCA Navy in April 2003, and in December 2009 the CCS also approved a Mark-II version with a new engine. NP-1 will fly with a GE-404 power-plant, with 40% of the funding coming from the Indian navy and 60% from the Defense Research and Development Organization. The Tejas naval variant will replace the aging fleet of Sea Harriers, and the navy is said to have made an initial commitment to 50 Tejas after the platform proves its mettle.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 23 Jun 2010 07:11

NRao wrote:
The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) sanctioned development of LCA Navy in April 2003, and in December 2009 the CCS also approved a Mark-II version with a new engine. NP-1 will fly with a GE-404 power-plant, with 40% of the funding coming from the Indian navy and 60% from the Defense Research and Development Organization. The Tejas naval variant will replace the aging fleet of Sea Harriers, and the navy is said to have made an initial commitment to 50 Tejas after the platform proves its mettle.

Good partnership 40%-60%
Sizable commitment = 50 NTejas

Amol Raut · Post by **Amol Raut** » 23 Jun 2010 11:45

Fiber optics is only meant for feedback / signaling / Data command. It doesn't supply power.
They can never take place of power cables which are meant for activating actuators such as Servo Motors or any Hydraulic Cylinder.
feedback / signaling / Data command cables are not heavy
So Fiber optics will never reduce weight.
They may improve signaling and other systems As they can transfer data at lightning speed

vic · Post by **vic** » 23 Jun 2010 13:15

If we put our 4 LSP, 1 NP & 1 PV-4 then it would mean 6 LCA in as many months. So one LCA per month.

manoba · Post by **manoba** » 23 Jun 2010 14:24

In other words, It's raining LCAs.

RKumar wrote:
and ADA is planning to make LSP-6 a completely experimental aircraft.
Don't know ... wild guess LCA with GTRE engine

Careful with your wish, you may actually get it these days.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 23 Jun 2010 15:14

sunilpatel wrote:Fiber Takes much less power than copper, particualy for FBL; single mode fiber will be used, and it has unbelievable lower losses, but yea for such short distance, power doesnt matter much.

In reality, single mode fiber system uses more power than multimode. I am not talking about the power that is fed down the 'pipe' I am talking about the total power supplied to the system from the power supply. Optical system needs a laser, and electronic circuits at the transmitter and receiver. Hence, for short distances, copper consumes less power than fiber.

Regarding EMP; it does the matter, really matters; even the wireless datalink creats some interference with Craft's communication system in copper media, if it not properly maintained;particularly in aged aircraft....

The EMP (ie the high energy pulse used with an intention to damage the system) affects the terminal circuitry a lot more than the cable. Of course, the fiber being non conductive helps to some extent. But it is when it comes to EMI (ie the continuing interference that will degrade the performance) fiber scores orders of magnitude better than copper.

its very highely reliable and robust systerm only thing will be that; once there will be problem; it takes time to restore..not that easy to maintain

More components == more failure prone. Also, the lasers and receivers have a much lower MTBF than the corresponding copper counterparts. Hence less reliable.

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 23 Jun 2010 15:22

Amol Raut wrote:Fiber optics is only meant for feedback / signaling / Data command. It doesn't supply power.
They can never take place of power cables which are meant for activating actuators such as Servo Motors or any Hydraulic Cylinder.
feedback / signaling / Data command cables are not heavy
So Fiber optics will never reduce weight.
They may improve signaling and other systems As they can transfer data at lightning speed

Oh, it sure does. The data cables are thick, shielded and many of them harnessed into monsters. An equivalent fiber system would weigh hundred times less.

steve · Post by **steve** » 23 Jun 2010 19:57

Juggi G wrote:India To Roll Out Tejas Naval Variant Soon
Aviation Week

So we are on course to become the first developing country to make a combat aircraft for Navy

. July 6th indeed is a 'D' day for us.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 23 Jun 2010 20:35

Indian Navy fastens its seatbelt for Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

India is preparing to unveil its first naval variant of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas on July 6 —15 years after the Indian Air Force (IAF) version of LCA’s technology demonstrator (TD-1) was first rolled out in 1995.

The naval prototype-1 (NP-1) is currently undergoing a series of checks inside the high-security hangar of Bangalore-based Aircraft Research and Development Centre (ARDC).It will be rolled out in the presence of Chief of Naval Staff (CNS) Admiral Nirmal Verma, sources told DNA on Tuesday.

“The two-seater naval variant for aircraft carrier operations, NP-1 will be rolled out on July 6 in Bangalore,” sources said.
Both Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), the nodal agency for the design and development of Tejas variants, and HAL, its principal partner and main manufacturer, were tight-lipped about the roll-out.

An aircraft’s roll-out means that it is structurally complete with equipment installed, and plumbing and wiring completed.
It will be on its wheels and can be moved by assisted power. A roll-out is also a precursor to the next phase of ground-based system integration testing, engine ground run, taxi trials and the first flight. Kept under wraps, the Tejas NP-1 will have almost the same system architecture as the Tejas IAF trainer version.

“Externally it might look the same like the Tejas trainer, but internally it is a different kettle of fish. We are confident that ADA-HAL will make NP-1 (trainer) ready for the first flight by the end of this year, and NP-2 (fighter) next year,” sources said.

The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) sanctioned development of LCA for the Navy in April 2003, and in December 2009, the CCS gave its go-ahead for a Mark-II version with a new engine.

NP-1 will fly with a GE-404 engine. NP-1’s 40% of the funding is from the Indian Navy while 60% is from Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

The naval variant of Tejas will replace the aging Sea Harrier fleet and the Indian Navy is said to have shown an initial commitment for 50 Tejas aircraft after the platform proves its mettle.

Both NP-I & NP-2 are tailor-made to operate from an aircraft carrier with the concept of ski-jump take-off and arrested recovery (STOBAR).

“The aircraft will get airborne within 20 metres over the ski-jump on the ship as against a land-based take-off run of about 800 metres. Landing on the ship is with an arrester hook on the aircraft engaging a ship-based wire.

The aircraft then stops within 90 metres of touchdown — about one-tenth the land-based stopping distance.

This makes the Tejas naval programme extremely challenging and we are happy with what the Naval Project Team (NPT) based out of Bangalore has done so far,” sources added.

A 14-member Naval Project Team headed by Commodore (Retd) CD Balaji, programme director, LCA Navy, is monitoring the project’s progress from ADA in close association with ARDC.
Balaji was not available for any comment.

steve · Post by **steve** » 23 Jun 2010 20:54

Juggi G wrote:Final Configuration Tejas To Fly In August
Aviation Week

So LSP-5 of LCA is the Final and complete configuration of LCA Mark-1 version. Hence it is the this configuration of LCA aircraft the IAF will be getting its hand on..........WOW at last the LCA version we are all waiting for.

So LSP 5 of LCA will differ from other aircrafts like:

1. A New Cockpit.
2. Will have Auto Pilot
3. Will have Night Lighting Capability

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jun 2010 21:46

lsp4 has night lighting for cockpit and autopilot per reports that appeared after it flew.

hopefully the LSP6 will test some meaty goodies for the future.

steve · Post by **steve** » 23 Jun 2010 22:15

Singha wrote:lsp4 has night lighting for cockpit and autopilot per reports that appeared after it flew.

hopefully the LSP6 will test some meaty goodies for the future.

Well take a look at the below link.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/06/ ... -test.html

“I am pushing for LSP-5 to fly by June-end”, says D Balasunder, the Managing Director of HAL’s Bangalore Complex. “It will have all the systems fitted in LSP-4, and (LSP 5) will additionally have night lighting within the cockpit, and an auto-pilot.”

What LSP 4 has that LSP 3 do not have is

LSP-4 additionally has flare and chaff dispensers to confuse enemy radars and missiles: a Counter Measure Dispensing System.

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 24 Jun 2010 03:58

India Establishing SBTF For Naval Tejas
Aviation Week

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 24 Jun 2010 05:15

Great news! Full speed ahead!

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 24 Jun 2010 07:28

See How they tested F-35 for carrier landing

F-35C Lightning II carrier variant successfully completed testing in which it was dropped from heights of more than 11 feet during a series of simulated aircraft-carrier landings. The tests validated predictions and will help confirm the F-35C's structural integrity for carrier operations.

The jet, a ground-test article known as CG-1, underwent drop testing at Vought Aircraft Industries in Grand Prairie, Texas. No load exceedances or structural issues were found at any of the drop conditions, and all drops were conducted at the maximum carrier landing weight. The drop conditions included sink rates, or rates of descent, up to the maximum design value of 26.4 feet per second, as well as various angles and weight distributions. The tests were used to mimic the wide range of landing conditions expected in the fleet.

I hope ADA picks up a hint from here.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 24 Jun 2010 07:47

chackojoseph wrote: See How they tested F-35 for carrier landing

Gyle_S · Post by **Gyle_S** » 24 Jun 2010 10:03

Juggi G wrote:India Establishing SBTF For Naval Tejas
Aviation Week

Just wow! It just seems to be raining jalebi imarti these days...roshogulla too.

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 24 Jun 2010 10:38

Shiv Aroor talks about details/pics on the AESA radar being developed for the LCA. Keep a watch on livefist.

An exclusive first-time account of India's indigenous AESA radar effort for the Light Combat Aircraft -- never before seen images, schematics, graphics and more. Also a post on the phased-array radar effort for India's indigenous AEW&C platform. Both posts coming up later today.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Jun 2010 10:51

it is said that both in technology and in per-capita productivity/gdp, after a certain threshold is reached, further growth is very fast and 'easy' . we seem to be entering that phase in some areas of defence products.

todo:-
big guns
engines

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 Jun 2010 16:03

Hmm bhailog, the Jehaaz e-sikhave al-Kuffar was flying idhar-udhar this morning . First time I have seen it fly.

But gotta hand it folks. The Jehaaz -e-sikhave is a real real looker. One of the sleekest looking planes around by any measure. I am sure that the LCA Navy, which is derived directly for that (only the rear seat being replaced by a big fuel tank) will be quite a looker as well. Just drooping the nose and raising the cockpit does wonders to the looks of the plane. The SU-30 kind of get's like look from the drooped nose and raised tandem seat cockpit

Also, I am sure MkII will be sort of similar looks I guess. That nice hump on which the cockpit sits can pack a couple hundred liters of fuel I suppose. I hope, pray and wish that MKII takes the internal fuel to 4000 lits from the 3000 liters at present , which will make it 3 to 3.2 tons of internal fuel. That will be very nice indeed. Also.. add 2 wing tip rails for heat seeking missiles.

With that kind of internal fuel a 25,000 lb thrust version of the GE 414/EJ200 and 9 weapon stations in all , along with the AESA radar, that will be one heck of a plane.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 24 Jun 2010 18:23

Kailash wrote:Shiv Aroor talks about details/pics on the AESA radar being developed for the LCA. Keep a watch on livefist.

An exclusive first-time account of India's indigenous AESA radar effort for the Light Combat Aircraft -- never before seen images, schematics, graphics and more. Also a post on the phased-array radar effort for India's indigenous AEW&C platform. Both posts coming up later today.

I bet he is going to talk abt the same pic that we already bisected here which has around 730+ TRMs.....I think we had a long discussion on that, i guess.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 24 Jun 2010 23:38

Story live on http://livefist.blogspot.com. Some photos below. more at the site

EXCLUSIVE: India's LCA AESA Radar Programme Detailed

...
...
According to official updated material made available to LiveFist, the fully solid-state X-band radar is being developed with the following modes:

Air-to-Air: Multi-target detection and tracking / Multi target ACM (Air-to-Air combat mode) / High resolution raid assessment

Air-to-Ground: High Resolution mapping (SAR mode) / AGR – Air to Ground Ranging / RBM – Real Beam Mapping / DBS – Doppler Beam Sharpening / Ground Moving Target Indication (GMTI) / Ground Moving Target Tracking (GMTT) / Terrain Avoidance (TA)

Air-to-Sea: Sea search and multi target tracking / Range Signature (RS) / Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar (ISAR)
...
...