J & K news and discussion

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 07 Jul 2010 21:05

Neshant wrote:Soon nobody will have time for stone pelting.

Take away all stones!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Jul 2010 21:10

^ I think it is better this situation gets worse.

- It would undo the current move against special forces powers
- It would nullify the efforts to withdraw IA from valley. A stone on the face of WKKs, as the current unrest proves that KMs will create law-and-order situation out of thin air as soon as IA moves out of public view and JK police / CRPF is not equipped to handle terrorists.
- It would further demonize KM's in the eyes of Indians.

***
On a different topic, what is the impact of all this stone-throwing competition on A-Yatra?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 07 Jul 2010 21:54

AFAIK, most pilgrims have been scared away. Number of visitors is remarkably less than it was previously. I'll have to check the numbers.

KMs are digging their own grave by attacking these pilgrims & tourists. Many of the pilgrims went on to visit tourist spots in Kashmir. Even last years no hotel had any empty room during most of Yatra season. Whatever little interest about Kashmir was renewed during last 4-5 years is completely absent now. Now with tourist season spoiled for good, apart from fruits there is little that the valley can offer to anyone. Even much of this fruit stock will probably rot due to bandhs.

In any other place, such simple facts will result in local populace coming to their wits in a season or so. But not in this pampered muslim valley. Before August is over, govt. will issue compensation packages worth 100s of crores for these turds .

partha · Post by **partha** » 07 Jul 2010 23:01

It looks like this stone pelting will be an annual ritual by the jihadis to coincide with Amarnath Yatra. I am sure this will stop after Yatra and resume next year same time. I hope GoI will come up with a strategy to deal with this menace. I see lot of teenagers with face covered participating in stone throwing. what do these guys do in life? Are they college goers? Don't they want a job?

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 07 Jul 2010 23:28

I don't think they are knowledgeable enough to be jihadis. I think most of these are normal angry young men raised to direct their anger at India.

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 07 Jul 2010 23:59

Some details on the youth who indulge in stone pelting in J&K.
From India Today : Stone-pelting gang's leader held in Srinagar

Shuja-ul-Haq - Srinagar, February 22, 2010

The Jammu and Kashmir Police has arrested a man who allegedly organised protests in the Kashmir Valley at the behest of separatists.

Irshad Ahmed, who was arrested in Srinagar, is alleged to be a leader of a gang involved in most incidents of stone-pelting in the Valley.

Sources claim that kerosene, carpet and pesticide dealers were funding the stone-pelting racket at the behest of separatist groups and a mainstream political party{Any guess which party that may be}.

The police seized dozens of SIM cards, cheque books and fake media ID cards from Irshad. He was arrested after the police launched a massive drive against stone-pelters.

The crackdown came after reports suggested that the separatists were paying unemployed youth in Valley to carry out stone-pelting protests against security personnel.

Irshad's accomplices termed his arrest as police's high-handedness and called for a shutdown in the Valley.

Stone pelting is now a domestic industry in J&K where the valley's youth get paid to create minor trouble. If the authorities use force then HRwallas malign GoI and IA.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Jul 2010 00:07

The best way to address such issues is to hurt the source of funding. Ensure that some of these dealers get into freak accidents and people will get the message.

The real problem in JK is that the valley based parties are against any settlement and center/national-parties cannot do much without their knowledge. It takes development of a valley version of political satrap; who is purer than the purest and does a harakiri at the critical moment.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Jul 2010 00:25

>> {Any guess which party that may be}.

PDP

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 08 Jul 2010 00:54

Rahul M wrote:>> {Any guess which party that may be}.

PDP

Thanks saar. I guessed it to be PDP but wanted some confirmation.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Jul 2010 07:05

Srinagar Army deployment driven by panic?

http://www.hindu.com/2010/07/08/stories ... 511200.htm

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Jul 2010 08:58

I still think the most humane way to deal with stone pelters is to strip them of any money , send them to Nagaland and let their parents, relatives go there and pick them up . Do it once and they wont dare to do this paki thing.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Jul 2010 08:59

Prem wrote:I still think the most humane way to deal with stone pelters is to strip them of any money , send them to Nagaland and let their parents, relatives go there and pick them up . Do it once and they wont dare to do this paki thing.

Send them to some isolated island of Andaman & Nicobar Islands. Coming back would be more expensive.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Jul 2010 09:15

Valley on Fire

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jul 2010 09:33

Where is Omar Abdullah? He has not appeared on TV at all. It's his responsibility to look after law and order in his state.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Jul 2010 09:39

he's enjoying his chai and biscoot, just like chidambaram

what an irony that chidambaram has managed to get away with deflecting blame/responsibility onto local state govts for defeating guerrilla armies in the naxalite case

meanwhile, as J&K is lit on fire again by Pak-jihadis, we'll see if chidambaram is able to get away with pushing responsibility onto that local state govt, given its historic ineptitude, and given that the enemy are cross-border terrorists

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Jul 2010 09:43

Indian Soldiers Are Deployed to Restore Order in Kashmir

NEW DELHI — The Indian Army deployed on the streets of the disputed region of Kashmir on Wednesday, seeking to quell angry street protests that have convulsed the valley.

--

the army is back - just the way Pak wants it

is this a short-term deployment? or will they again be stuck there indefinitely, as with Pak's original Operation TOPAC?

we need a BJP govt in New Delhi again, to handle this situation

we saw what happened the last time a Kaangress govt dealt with violence in J&K

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Jul 2010 09:50

First Army march in Srinagar in a decade

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indi ... 140580.cms

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Jul 2010 10:02

Pictures of Clashes in J&K

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Jul 2010 10:14

Army Flag March in Srinagar

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 Jul 2010 10:24

Sanjay M wrote:Pictures of Clashes in J&K

Sad to see the police charging towards the out of control mob without even basic riot gear.

Real brave hearts these policemen are to do that!!!

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Jul 2010 10:29

Barkin Mutt has been deployed to the Kashmir Valley - a total violation on the use of noxious gassy substances

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 08 Jul 2010 10:30

My two cents on the stone-pelting thing -

1. The situation on the ground, with withdrawl of the IA, can be presented as 'normal' and as a 'law and order' problem (the usual happenings in Kashmir)

2. By orchestrating this cycle of violence, especially ensuring that some kids are shot dead (which was a done thing considering the way these 'protest' have been organized and led), effort is being made to:

(a) Show that things are far from normal and their is strong local discontent on the ground - stone throwing also shows the David versus Goliath image and Indian Democracy (read State Government) gets a bad press.
(b) Maneuvering space is created for a "certain Political Party" which is more favorable disposed to the speratist cause
(c) By getting the IA to come out - point (a) is strongly reinforced.

So, while in the short term, IA coming out is OK to get things normalized, Security Forces need to develop strategy to tackle this aspect without resorting to IA.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Jul 2010 10:33

I prefer the British methods used in Ulster.

Protestant gangs were able to inflict equal pain on Catholic gangs. Extra-judicial killings/beatings were met with extra-judicial killings/beatings.

We need to see a return of the irregulars, and their sharper tactics.

Kaangress isn't going to do the right thing, chidambaram will duck responsibility as usual

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 08 Jul 2010 10:37

Personally I feel as long as we are not willing to go after the head of the snake across the border, we should just get used to these things.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Jul 2010 10:44

rohitvats wrote: stone throwing also shows the David versus Goliath image and Indian Democracy (read State Government) gets a bad press.

We should do a large-scale super-merciless lathi charge, break the hands and feet of stone-throwers, and leave them in the hospital.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Jul 2010 13:45

I do not understand why after many moons of stone throwing incidents and well knowing that it is a Paki sponsored trick to get our law and order services to overreact perhaps causing casualties,we do not develop innovative methods to counter the stonethrowers.First of all our para military and police forces have to have the proper protection in terms of eqpt.,like BP uniforms,proper helmets,shields,anti-civil disturbance weaponry,and vehicles that can withstand stonethrowing and IEDs.Equipped as such the danger to the paras and police will be far less.Tear gas,pepper/chili sprays,water cannons,paint markers to later idnetify rioters,etc., have all been developed and are available now as non-lethal methods to counter such kinds of disturbances,which will vastly reduce casualties amongst the forces and allow them to use less lethal weaponry.

Secondly,we have mollycoddled Pak far too long.Pak has been allowed to get away with the diabolic acts of 26/11,a virtual war on the nation and because of not wanting to upset our new found lord and master,Uncle Mam, MMS is just allowing Pak to dictate events in the sub-continent.We should use maximum diplomatic methods of punishing Pak first and show the world that if it has to come to conflict with Pak then India is not afraid.Pak is at the moment engaged with anti-Pak extremist elements in its own backyard and is stretched thin.It is an opportune moment for us to acclerate matters to our advantage and plan for the breakup of Pak before it engineers the break away of Kashmir at least in the minds of the locals.It is now abundantly clear to all that like the LTTE in Sri Lanka,"Peace" with Pak is an impossibility.Pak is actually a Chinese proxy and as I've been predicting for decades,China's plan is to reach the Gulf oil through Pak/Indian territory,which is being borne out by news of the new rail link China is planning to build through POK.Before we are encircled Pak has to be cut down to size or neutralised,but is this impotent GOI of the moment up to the task?That is the big Q.

The use of the Army right now has to be supported to the hilt because a strong message should be sent out to the Paki proxies in the Valley.Those anti-Indian,pro-Paki elements shoule be treated with the most extreme measures.They are the equivalent of spies and traitors and should face the consequences of their actions.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 08 Jul 2010 14:54

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/kunal-kapoor ... ml?from=tn
Would this open the eyes of the WKK traitors in Bollywood?

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 08 Jul 2010 15:19

Just returned from a spoiled trip to Srinagar. Drove from Jammu to Srinagar and flew back form Srinagar.
Some random thoughts...
Valley is highly over-rated. Many other places in India and elsewhere are much more beautiful. Dal lake is crap.

"All" the shops on the Jammu-Srinagar highway inside the valley were shut.

Common refrain was that security forces do no apply the same amount of force at something as small and regular as stone pelting in other parts of the country.

Another common refrain was that all politicians are crooks. Congress/PDP/NCP/Hurriyat all are in the game of insurgency.

People observed that all the prominent separatists had there children well settled outside the state and it was for the common man to die.

When I asked a taxi driver , a KM, what people wanted, he said that people just wanted their lives to go back to what it used to be before. No Azaadi for him.

Another taxi driver, a sardar ji, opined that we will lose kashmir in another 10 years.

Security forces were on the edge everywhere.

Even the staff at the airport were very rude and on the edge.

One hawker remarked that it is only those who have not gone outside the state are parochial.

Manmeet · Post by **Manmeet** » 08 Jul 2010 16:29

Recent trends in valley is pointing to some thing Indian security forces have used before and I think there is again a strong need of it...
Here we see protesters with stones whom you can imagine as just being 'leaves' but stump and roots are some other people...
It is the old tactic being used by separatists hence we require same solution when security forces need to revive Ikhwanees (plain clothed kashmiris who work for govt as agents) and mix with people to find out who are exactly responsible for stone pelting and then eliminate them covertly !
If Abduls on Kashmiri streets get provoked by seeing Indian khaki then why show them Indian khaki?
There are 3 ranks of separatists in the valley:

1. Old and senior turds who are living on India's mercy. They are breathing till India wants them to breathe and there is no harm if they are breathing.

2. Juniors who implement hurriyat agenda on district level.

3. Mohalla and 'alley way leaders' who gather mob on locality and mosque level and co-ordinate with imams of mosques to implement post namaz program on Fridays.

4.I think there is a strong need to revive plain cloth SPOs of J&K police and Ikhwanees and eliminate these Junior and mohalla, 'alley way' hurriyat leaders in covert operations and never let them grow again.

5.Also current imams of mosques must be thrown behind bars for long time as they also play an important part in implementing separatist agenda.

6.There is a strong need for para-military to supervise and have strict eye on mosque imams.

These abduls will go away when their leaders will be eliminated.
I think govt should again revive covert kashmir operations and eliminate stone pelting gang leaders....

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 08 Jul 2010 17:42

I remember reading that the glacier which is the source of water supply to the Valley is disappearing.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 712780.htm

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=245236

http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Clima ... t_999.html

http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/kashmir-glacier.htm

http://www.pulitzercenter.org/openitem.cfm?id=2283

This natural process could be accelerated.

People will have a hard time throwing stones if they have nothing to drink.
You can't holler with a parched throat.

If Allah is making the water go away, who are we mortals to argue with that?

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 09 Jul 2010 00:04

Did separatists plan, instigate Kashmir violence?

NEW DELHI: Involvement of hardline separatists in engineering some of the violence in the Kashmir valley is indicated by an intercepted conversation between two of them during which they discussed killing of at least 15 people in a procession near Srinagar on Wednesday.

A large procession had started in Budgam district on the outskirts of Srinagar in the evening and two senior office-bearers of the hardline Hurriyat faction led by Syed Ali Shah Geelani discussed how to utilise it to create casualties, according to the transcript of the conversation available with the Home Ministry.

According to the transcript, one of the office-bearers, Ghulam Ahmed Dar, was heard telling Shabir Ahmed Wani, another office-bearer, that a procession of nearly 20,000 people had started from Magam and was going towards Budgam.

Wani tells Dar, "You guys enjoy payments sitting at home and do nothing."

Dar, in his response, says, "The management of crowd becomes difficult later.....it gets difficult to manage the mob later."

Dar then ends up by saying, "At least 15 people should be martyred today."

However in the event, the police dispersed the procession with a mild cane charge and no untoward incident took place.

It is increasingly becoming evident that this is all Paki instigated to make Kashmir an issue before the the foreign minister level talk.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 09 Jul 2010 00:42

kumarn wrote: Another taxi driver, a sardar ji, opined that we will lose kashmir in another 10 years.

What was his reasoning?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jul 2010 01:39

This stone pelting a throwback akin to the Palestine intifada tactic where they used stone pelting to provoke firing and claim HR abuse. Most likely a Paki plot to keep Kashmir on boil while they sort out Haqqani primacy in Southern Afghanistan. Keeps India on edge.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 09 Jul 2010 06:00

This presenter reminds me of British comedian John Oliver, who frequents Jon Stewart's Daily Show:

Why do they have to have a drumbeat in the background, like it's an action movie?

dada · Post by **dada** » 09 Jul 2010 10:22

# kumarn , you wrote
"One hawker remarked that it is only those who have not gone outside the state are parochial"

I was in srinagar & around for a week in May,2010. Through informal talk & Indirect Method, I tried to find out the % of Young Kashmiris who have ventured out of the Valley. Out of the 32 people I spoke to during the week only 5 (around 15%) has gone outside the Valley.

Kashmiris are living in a self imposed cocoon(something like the silkworm). We must break it open by first completing the Railway Link to Srinagar as early as possible. Railways are the cheapest mode of transport (The New 75 Km railway line journey connecting Anantnag & Baramulla cost the local kashmiris only Rs 15). Kashmiri Society does not have any visible MIDDLE CLASS. it is divided into the Elite (Notice the Boom in Construction of Palatial Houses in some sectors of the Valley) who merely "uses" the Bottom class kashmiris .

The Attendants in our houseboat kept themselves busy watching PeaceTV & Dr Naik Lectures(Not at all surprising) on TV all the time. Their Reading Habits are practically ZERO. Around many road corners are available cheap (maybe subsidised) "pure islamic literature" all in "pure urdu".

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 09 Jul 2010 13:53

CNN-IBN showing captured conversation between Geelani and Shabir Wani of Hurriyat.
According to transcript, Wani was trying to have 15 dead protesters in a single day and has been arrested. Geelani is still free for unknown reasons. Who knows how many deaths were really due to firing by security forces. Maybe Hurriyat rats bumped off a few people just to enrage mob.

Hurriyat and PDP are the real instigators and beneficiaries of all this drama. Most people are aware of it and still lack the brains to think for themselves.

derkonig · Post by **derkonig** » 09 Jul 2010 13:56

Dada saar,
Its best that we retain them in the cocoon, we dont want them to spread the infection to the rest of the country.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 09 Jul 2010 15:02

Yup. The carpet dealers who've been financing this whole tamasha are the ones who gain most from their business with rest of India. That doesn't stop them from answering the call of jihadi azadi. Just because some of these guys are educated and working outside Kashmir valley doesn't mean that they will have open minds and any love for India. Lure of Islamic glory and hatred of non-muslims is what that matters.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 09 Jul 2010 19:26

I wonder how widely the following piece of conversation is being publicized in the valley? The govt. needs to keep playing this over and over till every kashmiri hears this.

We want 10-15 more martyred: Hurriyat leader

The conversation between Hurriyat Geelani faction leader and his paid activist exposes how the hardline separatists are trying their best to instigate violence during the protests.

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: I heard there is a protest march in Budgam.

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: Where?

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: Budgam

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: I believe one small one had. Where will they go right now?

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: No, I have heard that it's a massive one - nearly 30,000

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: 30,000?

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: I swear, 30,000 of them. Protest near the Magam Forest check post. You enjoy your salaries without doing anything for it.

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: You have to understand the reason for it

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: Tell me

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: The crowds get too big to handle at times. Lots of people join in and it's difficult to manage them

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: We want 10-15 more martyred. Did you hear that? (loud noise apparently of rally)

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: Did you hear that? That's the rally in Budgam

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: Ok

ajit_tr · Post by **ajit_tr** » 09 Jul 2010 19:38

Dipanker wrote:I wonder how widely the following piece of conversation is being publicized in the valley? The govt. needs to keep playing this over and over till every kashmiri hears this.

We want 10-15 more martyred: Hurriyat leader
The conversation between Hurriyat Geelani faction leader and his paid activist exposes how the hardline separatists are trying their best to instigate violence during the protests.

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: I heard there is a protest march in Budgam.

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: Where?

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: Budgam

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: I believe one small one had. Where will they go right now?

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: No, I have heard that it's a massive one - nearly 30,000

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: 30,000?

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: I swear, 30,000 of them. Protest near the Magam Forest check post. You enjoy your salaries without doing anything for it.

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: You have to understand the reason for it

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: Tell me

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: The crowds get too big to handle at times. Lots of people join in and it's difficult to manage them

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: We want 10-15 more martyred. Did you hear that? (loud noise apparently of rally)

Hurriyat (G) leader Ghulam Mohd Dar: Did you hear that? That's the rally in Budgam

Local Hurriyat activist, Shabir Ahmed: Ok

Even if above conversation is publicized in valley what stops people in valley claiming that the tapes were doctored just like 1989 rigged elections in valley.