Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): July 07, 2010

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jul 2010 08:37

Mullen’s blunt talk: keep US interest in mind

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ants-zj-02

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 25 Jul 2010 08:38

Call to rein in LeT

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... in-let-570

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2010 08:41

pgbhat wrote:
naren wrote:No problemo. We can hang a piece of ~~white~~ toilet paper and call it Pakistani flag
fixed.

Why should India talk to the army?

This is truly called groping in the dark. Does anybody believe that Quereshi or Gilani have a mind of their own, or after the recent talks, Kiyani or Paasha would have said anything different? So what if India "talks" to TSPA and ISI? They are going to say Kashmir. And how is this different from what Qureshi demanded? The only script that will make a difference instead of the usual cycle of repitition will be if India draws some red lines and says this is our bottom line, take it or leave it. This can be conveyed to Kiyani or Paasha or their mouthpieces Gilani or Qureshi or Gilani or Zardari; won't make a difference.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 25 Jul 2010 08:45

Why is Kayani more powerful if Tariq Majid is higher ranked as an officer? Are PAF and PN officers also powerful in the national level as PA?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 25 Jul 2010 08:45

Carl_T wrote:Yeah I think Pranav is right, it will be taken as "Indian women dancing to martial pakis" just like in Hindi films.

No point in scoring a self-goal. When you are into propaganda war...right or wrong you have to rally around your point. Just like the way marketing go.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2010 08:49

abhishek_sharma wrote:Mullen’s blunt talk: keep US interest in mind

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... ants-zj-02

While defence analysts saw in the statement a disquiet in the American camp about some of Pakistan’s tactical moves for Afghan reconciliation, they also noted concessions in it for Islamabad.

The admiral, in their opinion, offered Pakistan the freedom to make choices about its defence, particularly those pertaining to the use of military aid being given by Washington and the manner in which Pakistan troops are deployed.

In other words, make sure no hanky panky by Haqqni and LET against US and its western lackeys, but do whatever you want against SDREs with the military aid we are doling out to you. Thats the concession TSP can live with.

SS, just wondering if you have read the latest version of the KL bill? Any reference to LET. Could the above concession by Mullen to TSP mean that the reference to LET is taken out of KL?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 25 Jul 2010 08:50

Kanson wrote:No point in scoring a self-goal. When you are into propaganda war...right or wrong you have to rally around your point. Just like the way marketing go.

x2.... if it was a paan chewing chowkidaar, we would have some SDREs complaining that "We are not TFTA enough"

.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jul 2010 08:53

Carl_T wrote:
Yes...thats all abt the propaganda war...if they convert a defeat as victory..surely they can say whatever they want. But this about the point we are trying to make of what we think Pakistanis are. But the subtle taunting of you parading before our wimmen goes a long way.
Yeah I think Pranav is right, it will be taken as "Indian women dancing to martial pakis" just like in Hindi films.

The assumption here is wrong. The propaganda war is not a zero-sum game between India and the Pakis. It's a propaganda war in front of the whole world. Third parties like the goris featured in one of the pictures are the ones who see and record (in their digital cameras) that petite Indian ladies do the job which a Pakbarin mard does. That enhances our soft power.

Regarding the Pakis, they will always convince themselves that they've won. No need to suffer from a version of the Stockholm syndrome and unconsciously agree with them.

Even better would have been a bunch of hijras doing the needful or BRF's favourite paan chewing chowkidar.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jul 2010 08:55

pgbhat wrote:
Kanson wrote:No point in scoring a self-goal. When you are into propaganda war...right or wrong you have to rally around your point. Just like the way marketing go.
x2.... if it was a paan chewing chowkidaar, we would have some SDREs complaining that "We are not TFTA enough" .

As dear Mushy would have said: Agree 400 per cent.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2010 08:55

Carl_T wrote: Yeah I think Pranav is right, it will be taken as "Indian women dancing to martial pakis" just like in Hindi films.

Exactly. And God forbid, if one of them turns out to be like Sania Mirza, TSP will be delirious. I don't consider this as any significant development. The whole tamasha ought to be scrapped. Its insulting to India and perpetuates the equal equal, and other western cliches that "people on both sides love each other but for extremists".

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jul 2010 08:59

CRamS wrote:
Carl_T wrote: Yeah I think Pranav is right, it will be taken as "Indian women dancing to martial pakis" just like in Hindi films.
Exactly. And God forbid, if one of them turns out to be like Sania Mirza, TSP will be delirious. I don't consider this as any significant development. The whole tamasha ought to be scrapped. Its insulting to India and perpetuates the equal equal, and other western cliches that "people on both sides love each other but for extremists".

CRS,

Have you considered that if India puts a stop to this then the Pakistanis and some perpetually pessimistic Indians, who in their minds have concluded just how SDRE we are in everything, [

] will then conclude that India "ran away" from this ceremony because they couldn't keep up with the TFTA mards from Pakistan?

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 25 Jul 2010 09:00

amit wrote: CRS,

Have you considered that if India puts a stop to this then the Pakistanis and some perpetually pessimistic Indians, who in their minds have concluded just how SDRE we are in everything, [ ] will then conclude that India "ran away" from this ceremony because they couldn't keep up with the TFTA mards from Pakistan?

It is typical of SDREs to search for defeat even if victory is staring at them.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2010 09:02

amit wrote:
CRS,

Have you considered that if India puts a stop to this then the Pakistanis and some perpetually pessimistic Indians, who in their minds have concluded just how SDRE we are in everything, [ ] will then conclude that India "ran away" from this ceremony because they couldn't keep up with the TFTA mards from Pakistan?

I would say SDREs should wear this as a badge of honor. Anything that dissipates the false equal equal is in India's interests.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 25 Jul 2010 09:04

amit wrote:
The assumption here is wrong. The propaganda war is not a zero-sum game between India and the Pakis. It's a propaganda war in front of the whole world. Third parties like the goris featured in one of the pictures are the ones who see and record (in their digital cameras) that petite Indian ladies do the job which a Pakbarin mard does. That enhances our soft power.

Maybe, we could play the "liberal open democracy" card. I'm going to stick with my idea of singing and dancing hizras.

I think this whole spectacle is really for the Indian (and tourist) audience like the "changing of the guard" they do in UK so it would be a good opportunity to develop soft power as you say.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2010 09:07

pgbhat wrote: It is typical of SDREs to search for defeat even if victory is staring at them.

What is the victory here boss? This is bean counting at best. I cannot think of any blow India has delivered to TSP in the past decade or so except for the shooting down of their Atlantique. And a real blow to TSP is the need of the hour to avoid that sick piling on of insults from TSP that we saw from Quereshi. Not to mention 26/11 and umpteen crimes like that. As I said, its not wrth talking about. If we scrap the whole circus, that would be note worthy IMO.

Multatuli · Post by **Multatuli** » 25 Jul 2010 09:40

amit wrote:

The assumption here is wrong. The propaganda war is not a zero-sum game between India and the Pakis.

...

Even better would have been a bunch of hijras doing the needful or BRF's favourite paan chewing chowkidar.

I fully agree, the goris particularly will love it, (womens emancipation and all that). Splendid idea.

Please post more pictures of our women constables with their fanatical bearded porki mard counterparts in the background.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jul 2010 09:44

CRamS wrote:

CRS,

Have you considered that if India puts a stop to this then the Pakistanis and some perpetually pessimistic Indians, who in their minds have concluded just how SDRE we are in everything, [ ] will then conclude that India "ran away" from this ceremony because they couldn't keep up with the TFTA mards from Pakistan?
I would say SDREs should wear this as a badge of honor. Anything that dissipates the false equal equal is in India's interests.

CRS,

I don't think you understand. If you use the same (specious) logic that sending lady BSF jawans to face up to Pakbarin Mards is equal to having SDRE women dancing to please the TFTAs then closing down the whole show would mean only one thing. Pakistan>India. The SDRE's ran away because they couldn't stand up to the cocka doodle doo of the TFTA mards.

You see with practice almost everyone can follow the chain of pessimistic reasoning which turns everything into one point. SDRE's are good for nothing and everyone is better, whether it is the Amir Khan or the unwashed Pakbarin Mards.

For record, I think this is a great move by the BSF to show how different India is from Pakistan. And yes it would be an icing on the cake, if like Sania Mirza, one of the lady BSF jawans is from a particular religion. (Though that should not be a criteria).

Anything which disabuses the == is welcome, even though it would result in withdrawal symptons for both the Pacquis and many SDRE Internet warriors.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 Jul 2010 09:48

Aren't we giving excessive importance to this wagah ceremonial testimonial anyway? /Just wonderin'

And anyway == or not, fact remians Yindia's unable to shake off TSP's baleful influence. Folks down south for instance, may not be interested in Papistan, but make no mistake, poopistan is interested in them.

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jul 2010 09:49

Multatuli wrote:I fully agree, the goris particularly will love it, (womens emancipation and all that). Splendid idea.

Please post more pictures of our women constables with their fanatical bearded porki mard counterparts in the background.

Actually if the BSF/Home Ministry was really media savvy, then the next step should be to invite some Delhi based gora/gori correspondents of TFTA media outlets of the West to the place to witness the event and write about it.

Imagine, Pak Mards do their cocka doodle do strutting and then the BSF ladies smartly march over and do the needful. I would love to see that and read the copy that would come out of that!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2010 10:08

amit wrote: CRS,

I don't think you understand. If you use the same (specious) logic that sending lady BSF jawans to face up to Pakbarin Mards is equal to having SDRE women dancing to please the TFTAs then closing down the whole show would mean only one thing. Pakistan>India . The SDRE's ran away because they couldn't stand up to the cocka doodle doo of the TFTA mards.

You really believe the nonsense in bold? I can bet you, take a poll on BR, and overwhelmingly BRites will vote to stop that crap; perhaps most Indians. And assuming MMS & co were to make such a bold move (I know I am dreaming) and even if TSP crows that SDREs ran away from that tamasha, I can bet you, nobody in India would care two hoots.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 25 Jul 2010 10:21

The utterly contemptible Karan Thapar writes one of his more egregious $hitcolumns (for which some HT responders are giving him a good jhapad that is worth reading in the responses...)

Failure foretold
Karan Thapar
July 25, 201

I want to ask a controversial question this Sunday morning: how much of the blame for last week’s Indo-Pakistan denouement lies with India?

After all, just as terror is important to India, Kashmir, Siachen and peace and security are of equal significance to Pakistan. By prioritising the first over the other three India was placing issues that are of prime concern to Delhi ahead of those that are of prime concern to Islamabad.

The question I want to raise is this: did India mishandle the approach to the talks and, consequently, mislead the Pakistanis? At the very least Krishna’s statement suggests we were not upfront and transparent.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Failure-f ... 77264.aspx

amit · Post by **amit** » 25 Jul 2010 10:26

CRS you're changing the goal posts. You follow a certain line of reasoning which says women jawans equal to SDRE women dancing for TFTA mards and then say we should stop the exercise. I show you that the same stupid line of argument would lead to what.
Now you are bringing up the issue of stopping the exercise as an independent option. Many folks on BRF including myself want a chowkidar to do the needful which amounts to stopping the ceremony.
But I notice you have managed to bring in your pal MMS into the argument which started as a light hearted banter.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2010 10:35

jrjrao wrote:The utterly contemptible Karan Thapar writes one of his more egregious $hitcolumns (for which some HT responders are giving him a good jhapad that is worth reading in the responses...)

Failure foretold
Karan Thapar
July 25, 201

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Failure-f ... 77264.aspx

Even that monkey PureFool said the same thing in a Paki newspaper. I wonder how these guys continue to stay in business and that too in mainstream media. What does it tell you about India? Can the thappad and purefool counterparts if any in the western media survive 5 minutes after writing such bile?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 25 Jul 2010 10:50

Well Thappar has his father's legacy to carry on and Purefool is on Payroll for long. Equating self created Poak concerns with Poak induced terrorism is not onlee naive but criminaly insane and insult to the memory of innocent people who lost life in Mumbai, Kargil etc.

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 25 Jul 2010 11:04

our strategic Intent would be to Weaken the Pakistani army. Thats the only thing that can give us long term results, in the sub continent.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Jul 2010 11:05

Prem, A Hindu can be any thing but not Innocent. He deserves to be killed and his women to be captured by the ROPERS. Any one who dares to speak in favor of Hindus is RSS loony. So I request in the interests of Peace and harmony that India forgets all about 26/11 and discuss the surrender of Cashmere.

This is what the attitude of Intellectually Superior English language media of India is.

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 25 Jul 2010 11:58

You can't have FTA with India without talking to us!
Folks, may I add a few lines here on Pakistan's economy?
There is a report in the Pakistani daily Business Recorder stating that the current trade volume between India and EU is U.S $80 billion and with the FTA being negotiated, EU and India are planning to reach a trade volume of U.S $200 billion in four years time.
EU India FTA.

But something else caught my eye. Immediately above the report there was another (quoted below) stating how Pakistan would be screwed should the FTA go ahead!

Pakistan voices concern over India-EU FTA
Pakistan has expressed serious concern over the proposed Free Trade Agreement (FTA) between India and the European Union (EU), which what it said, may affect 78.7 percent of Pak exports to the EU. According to the documents available with Business Recorder, the government has shown serious concern over the EU's on-going FTA negotiations particularly with India, which would affect Pakistan's market access to the EU.
...
Now, Pakistan is willing to consider undertaking deeper integration in FTA with the EU, which includes liberalisation in goods, services, investment, government procurement and intellectual property rights as per the EU's standards and requirements. However, the EU, in principal {in principle ?}, needs to agree to enter FTA dialogue with Pakistan.

link

satyam · Post by **satyam** » 25 Jul 2010 12:04

They should enter into fta agreement with China. That would be the end of pak industries.

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 25 Jul 2010 12:09

satyam wrote:They should enter into fta agreement with China. That would be the end of pak industries.

With or without an FTA, China has been dumping worthless Railway engines on Pakistan Railways! I believe Pakistan and China have some liberal trading arrangement.

satyam · Post by **satyam** » 25 Jul 2010 12:11

EU- Pak free trade talks have already broken,

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/wor ... 76985.html

But Bakiz are beggars. Can't understand simple denial.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2010 15:06

jrjrao wrote: http://www.hindustantimes.com/Failure-f ... 77264.aspx

..agreeing to discuss them would have given the Pakistanis something to show to their domestic opinion. That matters as much in Islamabad as it does in Delhi.

Thapar, like "Moderate liberal Pakis" is asking that India should give Pakistan an honor saving option and argues that it would be harmless to India.

But why should India give anything to Pakistan? Neither he nor the Paki group are very convincing in their arguments. No India wants to give Pakistan an inch. What is Karan Thapar doing to show they are wrong?

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 25 Jul 2010 15:23

Usually Pakistanis display such chutzpah when they think they have won something or about to win something in their perception....

http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?688444

Pakistan has said it will be impossible for it to continue the dialogue with India if New Delhi does not pay importance to the Kashmir issue.

India must include the Kashmir issue in talks with Pakistan in order to take forward parleys between the two countries, Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said.

"It will be impossible for Pakistan to continue the dialogue if India does not pay importance to the Kashmir issue," Qureshi told reporters at the airport here yesterday after returning from a trip abroad.

......

On the proposed Pakistan-Afghanistan transit trade agreement, he described it as a significant achievement, but ruled out any provision in the pact to allow India to send its goods to Afghanistan via Pakistan.

The Foreign Minister also dismissed assertions by US leaders and officials that the top al-Qaeda and Afghan Taliban leadership, including Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar, are present in Pakistan.

Describing such reports as rubbish, he said: "Pakistan wants concrete evidence proving the whereabouts of either Osama or Mullah Omar".

He said that if anyone claims bin Laden or Mullah Omar are hiding in Pakistan, they must provide evidence to the government of Pakistan to back up their contention.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2010 16:39

shravan wrote:11 more killed in Karachi violence

KARACHI: At least 11 more people have been killed in various firing incidents in different areas of metropolis here on Sunday.

The score has gone up to 15

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 25 Jul 2010 16:41

Still, it's not up to their high standards. They are clearly underperforming.

Must be pre-occupied with the Australia game. Let us hope they refocus on the job at hand. Soon.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2010 16:48

shiv wrote:
jrjrao wrote: http://www.hindustantimes.com/Failure-f ... 77264.aspx

..agreeing to discuss them would have given the Pakistanis something to show to their domestic opinion. That matters as much in Islamabad as it does in Delhi.
Thapar, like "Moderate liberal Pakis" is asking that India should give Pakistan an honor saving option and argues that it would be harmless to India.

But why should India give anything to Pakistan?

In the past (some would say even in the present), India has given so much to Pakistan as a matter of H&D. The Pakistani State never built up a 'domestic opinion'. The only 'domestic opinion' they built up was more hatred for infidel Hindu India, more propaganda on how India was an unremitting enemy, more lying on how India was stealing their water etc.

What people miss is the central theme that one can plainly see: Pakistan does not want to live in peace with India. Not now, not in the future. It is only complicating issues and making them more intractable.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Jul 2010 17:29

Sridhar, Expecting the Indian English median and the WKK brigade to understand some thing as simple as what you have posted is asking for sun moon and every thing in between. I am more optimistic of sun rising from the west then the changing of attitudes of the Indian media and WKK cabal.

Any way the good news is that SMQ made an ass out himself in the press conference. Resulting in a hardening of Indian (mango Indian at least) opinion towards TSP. Weakning the Aman ki Asha tripe

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2010 17:46

Pratyush wrote: Weakning the Aman ki Asha tripe

Let us remember that 'Aman ki Asha' sprang up after one of the most terrible and audacious attacks on India, the 26/11. Do you think SMQ's arrogance and SMK's submission would change those Indian minds ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2010 17:51

Demilitarization of Siachen

The president said, “Even though Indian expenditures in Siachen are far more than Pakistan’s, we propose that the matter should be resolved amicably through talks, so that the resources of the two countries can be spent on the welfare of their people.” As per his remarks, India spends $ 50 per day on one soldier in Siachen while Pakistan spends Rs 50.

Pakistan has a low logistical cost compared to India, since the latter has to ferry a lot of supplies by air while we are able to transport the bulk of our supplies by road {Of course, at altitudes of a few thousand feet, mules can be used over katcha roads}

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 25 Jul 2010 18:07

^^
Why should he be bothered about that? India is spending its own hard earned money and it is upto Indians to decide whether we can afford it or not. If TSP has takleef over spending its alms from GUBO in Siachen :"Pliss to withdraw unilaterally".

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Jul 2010 18:15

SSridhar wrote:
Pratyush wrote: Weakning the Aman ki Asha tripe
Let us remember that 'Aman ki Asha' sprang up after one of the most terrible and audacious attacks on India, the 26/11. Do you think SMQ's arrogance and SMK's submission would change those Indian minds ?

It has, at least in my social circle. As some were advocating a normalisation of relations and the whole 9 yards with TSP with me being the holdout. But the drama of the talks and the boorish behavior of the Pakistanies has brought them around to my view point. So it was a good thing that the talks ended the way they did.